Alexander Zverev Finally Closes: What His First Grand Slam Really Means

Alexander Zverev is finally a Grand Slam champion. His five-set win over Flavio Cobolli at Roland Garros removes the largest remaining question from one of the most accomplished résumés in men’s tennis. The episode argues that Zverev’s title is not evidence of a sudden transformation, but the result of a player finally trusting his existing game long enough to finish the job.

Alvin and Torrey break down the dual nature of the final: nervous, imperfect, and unmistakably human, but also full of the patterns that have defined Zverev’s career. His forehand aggression, his tendency to become passive under pressure, and his ability to endure physically all shaped the match. The discussion also compares Zverev’s breakthrough to other late-career or long-awaited Slam victories, while noting that champions do not owe apologies for the draws they receive.

The conversation then expands to Cobolli’s run and the broader ATP landscape. With emerging players like João Fonseca, Jakub Menšík, and Martín Landaluce Jodar making deeper moves, the hosts ask whether men’s tennis is entering a more crowded, more competitive phase beneath Sinner and Alcaraz.

Transcript

Alvin Owusu (00:00.94)
And welcome to another episode of the Best of Three Podcasts. I'm Alvin, that's Tori, and we are coming to you just a few hours after Alexander Zverev captures his first, his maiden Grand Slam title. wins the wins the men's Roland Garros, French Open Championships, in a five set I'm not gonna say classic, it's a five set match. It did go five sets. he won six one four six, six four, six seven, six one.

over one Flavio Cobale. we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna dig into this this world of Alexander Zverev for a little bit here today. This is this is a long time coming, I think. but before we get into that, first and foremost, TH how you doing?

Torrey Hawkins (00:45.376)
Alvin, I'm good. I'm good. I'm better now. in our pod just the other day. again, congrats to Mira Andreva. her her maiden slam, obviously, a bit younger, I think by about ten years, than than than Sasha. but come

Alvin Owusu (00:59.688)
Mm-hmm.

Torrey Hawkins (01:04.258)
Just so happy for happy the way it it it ended up. Happy that Flavio not only made a match, made it a match, but but was contesting, you know what I mean, it's a crucial moments in the match. So you were we certainly did not get shortchanged. And I think we talked about that a little bit the other day. so I'm better now as a tennis fan, you know, you love seeing matches like this, you love seeing the the pot added with more and more intrigue and more and more people vying for that hardware at the end of a tournament like this and

I was very, very happy for the Zvera family. I be h obviously his dad and his brother have been been in this camp for a long, long time. And it was just really neat to see for them. because we know how many times this was was this the fourth s the fourth final?

Alvin Owusu (01:47.73)
This was his fourth final. Yeah. The twenty twenty against team at the US Open, Carlos and Roland Garros maybe two years ago and then and then earlier this year, or sorry, how when was that? Last year. Center. Australian Open. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (01:56.888)
It was like

Torrey Hawkins (02:01.902)
Twenty twenty five, I think, or sure. Yeah, yeah. So again, that was just huge to see, man, and and just you know

a everything it had, right? The the ups and downs of it. I know you you probably have a few comments about about it, but I loved the fact that he came through in the end. And th there's an old English saying, you know, he got there in the end. You know what I mean? And I think that's the that that's where I'm I'm with it. And, you know, to me, Alvin, it speaks to how hard these things are to do a and to finish. And the fact that there's only been a handful of new champs

shows how hard it is and he is one of only a few not named the big three and not named Center and Alcaraz in the last three to four years, two have won.

of these and I think that's and that that ha also has to play into how difficult these things are to to to accomplish, especially, you know, once you won a couple, let alone twenty, twenty two and twenty five or five well you know, it's it's a little easier winning number sixteen, you know what I mean, than it is winning number one. And I think that needs to be mentioned.

Alvin Owusu (02:53.233)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (03:08.881)
So the

Alvin Owusu (03:14.947)
Sure. let me let me go let me go ahead and and couch this one part before we get before we get started, right? Alexander Zverev comes with a lot of of let's say baggage, right? Out that that are outside of Alexander Zverev the tennis player, which in itself comes with a lot of baggage. But when we start to talk about Alexander Zverev and all of the press around him and some of the the off court things that he is known for,

Torrey Hawkins (03:20.856)
Yep. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (03:43.772)
I'm just gonna go ahead and couch it now and say that we we here at the best three podcasts choose to with any given player, whether it be on the men's tour or the women's tour, try to focus on the tennis and talk about the tennis. There is a conversation to be had about him off the court. I'm gonna we're gonna let other outlets handle that conversation with a lot more depth, and a lot more nuance. we're gonna we're gonna stay on our end of the pool, which is what you see on the tennis court, and connected to the tennis.

And then we we go forth from there and like I said let others handle the the rest of an important but larger conversation that is outside of the best of three collective space. Okay. So I yeah, so we didn't we didn't text much during this match, which is probably a good thing. Because I I spent the match with my dad and my brother watching this match. We're on the out on the on the screen in deck, and I the entire match I was just like, this is such

an Alexander Zverev match. Like this is this is w and and on one end you have Zverev who is now going to shed the title of the probably the greatest male player to have never won a Grand Slam. Right. and I I think that's warranted. I think we need to when we look at the totality of his career, yes, we mentioned the now he is now one and three in Grand Slam finals, but

Torrey Hawkins (04:54.104)
Not one one. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (05:05.359)
He's been to a lot of semifinals. He's been number two in the world. He's won a ton of Masters One Thousands. He's won year in championships. He's done all the things prior to today that one could do, except for win a Grand Slam. And he's a he's a walking hall of fame candidate at this point. Like you the i i it is what it is. and also he's kind of lived in both worlds, right? He was the tail end he he hit the scene on the tail end of the big three.

Torrey Hawkins (05:21.342)
exactly.

Alvin Owusu (05:34.242)
and and and challenged them. He, you know, that's where he kind of like earned his earned his stripes as a player. And then moving into the new two space along with Djokovic still being around. we've been on a ride with Mr. Zverev and I mean hell it goes back. I saw him when he was 18 years old, 17 years old, Eddie Her, doing a lot of the similar losing a first round match there, but doing a lot of the similar things that is still part of his DNA as a tennis player today. But

I think you kinda kinda macro and then I'll kick it back to you. The biggest thing I took away from this match is what we see the the sinners and the Alcarazes and the and the Novaks and the Carlos's and the Rafas do, I think is it's not it was never more abnormal than it than it was today. Like what they do and how they execute in the in the biggest of pressure moments.

in the biggest of matches was very different than what we saw today in a Grand Slam final. But I and I think that I think that is that is one thing that like kind of like even further elevates them away from kind of the rest. But also then also shows us how hard this is. Like these are the best version of we'll call mortal professional tennis players. And they are tight and they're nervous and they're tired and they're not able to

Torrey Hawkins (06:36.504)
Right.

Sure, sure. You you're go in.

Torrey Hawkins (07:00.44)
Yeah. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (07:04.355)
execute at all of the moments and I thought it was just like a fantastic human tennis match like s like a human tennis match.

Torrey Hawkins (07:13.944)
Right. W with all its ebbs and flows. You know all of And and I agree with you.

Alvin Owusu (07:17.635)
All of

Torrey Hawkins (07:22.506)
I was gonna say the thought sprang in my head, his career might be eeriedly reminiscent of the slam that Madison Keys won in Australia last year, you know, having been in a in the final or so, you know, years ago, in her case, obviously not not that distant for for Zverev, but later in her career to win one, right? And I feel like it was a testament. And I and I say it to say, and then not not a not a true head-to-head, but but very similar in the sense that you knew he always.

Alvin Owusu (07:33.447)
Mm.

Alvin Owusu (07:43.975)
Torrey Hawkins (07:52.452)
had the game. We always knew Madison had the game. And to me, I feel like this slam for him, it gets the monkey office back, but most importantly I feel like he

Conquered his own demons a little bit, and I feel like that was really neat to see. Really need to see a guy that on that court who's had, as he spoke to, you know, some books, some good luck, some bad luck. And he stayed the course to be left standing when the dust, the clay settled, so to speak. And I just really, to me, that's also about tennis. The game rarely, rarely does you any favors. But every once in a while,

It gives you it gives you a chance. And I feel like that's what this slam was to him. I feel like it gave him the opportunity. You talked about the other day, you know, Fed may not have beat Rafa head to head on the clay. Somehow Robin Slaughterling came in and and took him out, you know what I mean, and made that made the pathway for him, you know what I mean? Like a like like a like a nice block for a running back in a in a game of football. You know, he just and the and and Alvin, that's how it happens. And all history will show is W under RG.

What I'm saying, and that's it. That's all it is. 100%. 100%. So and that's what I like about it. Was it a very Zverev match? Of course. It's gonna be. That's what Zverev does. you saw the best of Zverev, you saw the tight Zverev. I think he almost matched his double faults for the tournament in this match. You know what I mean? At the same time, I saw him lace, I've never seen his forehand look bigger.

Alvin Owusu (09:06.363)
That's it. He's gonna come back next year and sign his name on the on the the brick that everyone else is signing. It it

Torrey Hawkins (09:32.842)
I mean, and his forehand has never been his big shot per se. He laced more forehands today, Alvin, than I've ever seen him lace. I told you before, he's starting to smack that forehand. I think he clocked one today at 105 107, and I'm like

Alvin Owusu (09:46.267)
Well, i i it was like

Torrey Hawkins (09:47.052)
Because Caboli hit a couple that you were like, dang, that's a big forehead. And then when the announcer said, I was yeah, that seemed a little bigger. But it didn't sound as big, right? He didn't get all fully wound up. He just timed it. And sure enough, it was 10 or 10 plus miles an hour faster or or close to. And I was like, Whoo, he's right, that's bigger. And in my mind, I'm watching this, and you don't realize how big of a human Sasha is. But when you see him catch all of that, all six foot, I'm gonna give him six, seven, give all six foot seven to that torque in

that ball, it's coming with some MPH album.

Alvin Owusu (10:20.228)
Yeah, it's I'm gonna go back just a little bit and then I wanna talk about kind of the that there's a game at four or five in the fourth set that I wanna really wanna hone in on there speaking to that forehand. But the the Madison Keys comp, I can see why you would make that one. It's might be even closer to it might be even closer to like Goron winning Wimbledon when he finally cracked one. Now granted Goron had to get a wild card. He was much further into the the ends of his career than than Sasha is, but

Just for having been close multiple times. you know, Sasha, I think that's the main difference I think between Madison and and Sasha Zverev. Madison had gone a long while without making a grand slam final. always had yeah, always had the ability, showed the ability, but never put together fantastic season after fantastic season, final final visit versus after final visit. and another difference in their two runs, which

Torrey Hawkins (11:03.192)
Sure.

Alvin Owusu (11:17.688)
We if you if you if you're a WTA fan, I would highly suggest you go back and listen to our our finals recap from yesterday. But and I said it a lot then, I'll continue to say it a lot now. When you win a grand slam, you don't owe an apology or an explanation to anyone, right? Madison went through a gauntlet to win that grand slam. A gauntlet. I think she beat Rebecca and Iga and Arena to to win the she went, she went, she went

one, two, three to win the whole thing. that's a that's a big deal. Like that's a that's a big deal. That will go down in the in the in the halls of like greatest grand slam runs probably ever, the further we get away from it. This one was a little bit different, but I think after all the way that the tournament broke, there is a there is something to be said about having the pressure on you and and then actually getting the job done.

I think it was very similar. I mean, once Sabalenka lost, Mira kind of sat with the same thing. Like it's your it's your job to you're the highest ranked player left in this tournament, it's your job to win this thing. And I mean, up until the final, Alexasha had lost two sets, right? You lose sec center in the second round, Novak in the third round, Fonseca and Hodar, which obviously Alex beat Hodar in the quarterfinals, Minchik in the semifinals, who Alex took care of, like all you know, some of our former champions dropped early.

He handled two out of three of those newcomers himself. I think that that that deserves its own level of appreciation when we're looking at okay, yeah, he didn't beat Novak or Carlos or Yannick, but he did he played who was yeah, he beat everyone who was in front of him, got faced his own demons. and so that forehand though, like when he started cramping a little bit at four or five in the second set, pardon me, fourth set.

Torrey Hawkins (12:59.224)
Right. And and how.

Everybody's friend.

Torrey Hawkins (13:13.078)
Right. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (13:13.358)
He he started unloading on four hands coming in. He played with conviction up until about the sixth point of that tiebreaker. And then Flavio was like, I should play with some conviction.

Torrey Hawkins (13:19.053)
Yeah. Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (13:24.408)
Yep. Started playing safe. Yeah. Started started playing a little safe, started playing a little little little a little more. I got the lead. Let me see if you'll give it to me. You know what I mean? And instead of taking it from him. No.

Alvin Owusu (13:35.705)
Right, right. Which is core to the Alexander's Rav experience, right? You that that was that was the both the beauty of this match was in the flaws I'm gonna say flaws, big big quotes if you're listening to this on Spotify or Apple Music, big quotes around flaws of the tennis player is that he did fall to some of the worst versions of him, which were a little tentative, not, you know

not being tenacious on on on big points, but I think the other side of that is you get to the fifth set and he was still standing and Flavio was was wilting and that is also

Torrey Hawkins (14:16.794)
came out strong in that first in that in the first three or four games. I mean, even that long game he had, I wanna say it was three I mean to just to dig. I mean

What they kept saying, and I think that Rafa hit the nail on the head, if that's what Rafa told him, was to be more brave, you know, be a little more, I think the word they used was have you know be a little more courageous in those moments. And I think that's a nice way of saying go for it. You know what I mean? Trust yourself, trust your trust your training, trust your skills at a time when let's face it, Sasha's had the ability or had the tendency, I should say, the tendency to just kick it in, trust.

that backhand, be solid, don't mess up at the same time.

You know, you're at that level. If you give that guy a little bit of just a little bit of daylight, and that's why he has gone three and not have p held the held the hardware up at the end of one these things, is because he's given that person that chance, and the guy on the other side of the net has known, yeah, if he's not gonna take it from me, I got a chance here. And I felt that's what happened in the in in the in the two sets that Flavio won. I felt like he really especially saw the sh the momentum shift in that second set. Flavio felt he was in the match and and and he wasn't.

wrong. So good good match, great teletable. I really felt like on on the other side of things, if we can kind of make a segue to Flavio, this young man played great. I mean this I was really, really I I've liked him since I saw him in his little breakout. I think it was last year Wimby, right?

Alvin Owusu (15:41.754)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (15:50.372)
Last year Wimbledon, yeah. Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (15:51.576)
I came out and I've been talking about him kind of ever since. I really like his game. and and I, you know, I'll the whole all the Italians have just been just balling, you know, out of control the last year and some or really a couple years and some change if you want to if you want to cap Yannick's rise as the as the tip of the spear. But I just feel like Caboli has done a phenomenal job of of repeating that success. Right. We talked the other day about

Maya and we talked about Lois and other players, you know, Zwolinska and and Poisson who okay you got a year. You got a year to show us that that wasn't a fluke. And I don't don't mean that harshly by any means, but to hang with this level of air, right? You've got a year to kind of prove that you're as you're as good as this or at the very least close, right? And Kaboli has doubled down in Ninsel. I mean he's legit 10 in the world and we'll be higher at at the at the end of this tournament. So I

Feel like while I don't necessarily think he'll be getting to a a final of another slam with everybody there in the rest of this calendar year, I certainly could see him getting to a semi, knocking somebody off along the way. And I expect him to get to a quarter going forward with everybody in the draw. So to me, that and him having that experience in the final now tells me that he's gonna be hankering to get back there again and really and be more composed. He won't miss.

he won't jump early on that slap overhead that he had in that in in that you know in that match but and and all that to say or or miss those or they'll miss those overheads which again wasn't part of fatigue and was for our match but to me it just shows me how far that young man has come you know here's a I don't think he was center esque when he first came out I don't think he was you know he's certainly a good a good grinder we just saw this young man Alvin was it Hamburg that been

Alvin Owusu (17:24.358)
boy.

Torrey Hawkins (17:50.794)
Built that Ben Shelton beat him pretty good in in the finals of Hamburg.

Alvin Owusu (17:54.0)
Yeah, was it maybe Munich or whatever the first one was, the f yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (17:56.888)
Whatever that person was, I know on the clay and I w I remember telling you how far back in the court he was playing and he he almost was out of camera range for a f and I felt like I w we were talking about how well Ben played in that very match. Now mind you had a couple of knockdown drag outs before he got to Ben in the final, but I felt like that was just a month ago. You know what I mean, give or take. Maybe maybe five weeks. So now to see this young man in a final, I mean, look how far he's come. You know what I mean? So I just feel like you can't see enough about his rise.

Alvin Owusu (18:16.25)
Yeah. Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (18:26.832)
His two weeks, yeah, got a little got a little bit of a you know luck of the draw with with his fellow countrymen getting getting the virus. And yeah, he you know, he too benefited from some other people taking out, you know, taking out some of the heavier you know numbered names, but at the same time, that's not his fault. You know, and the man put on a nice final and was, and you heard it right here, was was a was a sloppy game at early in the fifth from even that thing up. And had he kept it close in the fifth.

They might still be playing right now, Alvin. You know, just saying. Got memory. Got that right, you know.

Alvin Owusu (18:58.534)
Game a hot potato. No, you take it. No, you take it. No, you take it. No, you take it. you know, this interesting part about you you mentioned Flavio kind of expecting him to be core a quarter finalist moving moving forward i in slams. And I I'm less it's one of those like, okay, what did we what did we learn about the player after this tournament is over? And you can you know, we can talk about it through the lens of Flavio.

But it also applies to to Sasha and it also applies to everyone else who completed the tournament, right? What did I learn about Sasha Zverev? I didn't really learn anything about Sasha Zverev. Like he he he go back to our Australian Open, the a podcast we did. I can't believe it was you and I or some version of you and myself or you and me and Patrick, but the the question kind of came up was like who is most likely to win a slam if it's not going to be center and Carlos? And I said, Well, it's

the mo the person most likely to win it is probably the person who's most likely to be there. And as I look around the landscape of the last two years, the person that shows up the most consistently is Alexander Zverev. And so when all other slam champions have been removed, yeah, he should win the thing. And and he did. And he did. Right. So that so from that standpoint, and he did it in very Alexander Zverev fashion, right? He didn't s he didn't rock up and beat

Torrey Hawkins (20:09.814)
Right. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (20:20.793)
Flavio 3, 3, and 3 or anything that, right? He did it in the exact way that you think Sasha Zverev would do it, is which he gets out of a nervy first set, up, and then match gets tight a little bit, calms the nerves in the third set, and now he's rolling, and then fourth set, we go into a bit of a into the yeah, a little, a little bit into the blender there, and then he wins the war of attrition by just bleeding you out in the fifth set, which is that that is that is the

The gift and the curse of Alexander Zverev, right? But Flavio Caballi, he got this far, right? And I think both of them take away the Alex takes away the I got it done. So maybe when he gets into the fifth set against Carlos or fifth set against Yannick, maybe he'll feel that he he can see himself lifting the trophy because I've done I have lifted the trophy. So maybe maybe he takes that away. Right? Flavio, while he was

you know, fortunate in the in the the semifinal withdrawal, whatever. He probably he's probably beating Mateo or now the anyways. He did beat the four seed pretty cleanly, right? He beat Felix and I guess Felix would have been five had Carlos participated, but whatever. That's a solid win. Like that's a that's a solid win at a grand slim. And so maybe what he has taught him or proved to himself is that I can I can make it six, seven matches into in a in a two week run.

Torrey Hawkins (21:29.198)
Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (21:48.068)
And that's important. Now, do I think he's quarter finalist all day at a Grand Slam? no, because I think we have some other players who also learned some things in this tournament. Like I I want to say specifically, like Minchik was I wouldn't say Clay's best surface, and yet here he was, like, had he not messed around in the first two rounds of the tournament and get carried off the court in a stretcher, maybe he has a little more gas in the tank to to provide Sasha with a little more resistance.

I would also look at look at Fonseca. Like he I think he he learned a lot about himself in this tournament. And now I start to expect to see him when well he'll be seated in the next Grand Slam and then I expect to see him in the second week of maybe not Wimbledon, but yeah, I just think it's it's getting crowded up there. That's that's that's the takeaway.

Torrey Hawkins (22:36.552)
And we have now entered a phase where the ATP is starting to mirror the depth, the contentious depth of the WTA. And I feel like I feel even worse for guys like Holgeruna because it's gonna be a whole new test of

Alvin Owusu (22:55.535)
Well, dick dig into that dig into that a little deeper though, because I think when you say depth and sometimes use t the phrase parody, it's kind of within the the understanding of like outside of Carlos and Yannick. Because I think it's very important to realize that th those dudes did win nine straight slams combined, like in a row. So I wouldn't say that there is parody in the same way like we've had six different women's grand slam champions in a row. We've had

two and then this one. So but after that

Torrey Hawkins (23:28.59)
The parody starts now though is my point. The parody starts now. And and let me tell you why. I'm I'm I'll tell you why. No there there are there are three things that contribute to this. Number one, the field will always eventually catch up.

Alvin Owusu (23:31.993)
You think so? You y you th Yeah, please do.

Torrey Hawkins (23:45.172)
It may take a year or two. It may take a generation or two in the in the sense in in the on with the with the the big three. It took it took literally a generation for them to catch up. They didn't catch up until the middle teens, the middle twenty tenths. I mean, let's just be honest. They had it on lockdown. I mean, it was just even then a couple of people snuck in one here and there. The field didn't really catch up, but then toward the end, toward Rogers, you know, obviously as he was tapering off whatnot, they they were starting to catch him. And I think that's just a test.

Alvin Owusu (23:49.239)
Mm-hmm.

Torrey Hawkins (24:15.176)
How good Roger was, and obviously Rafa, and so on and so on. Yao caught Novak in 2026 just to show you how far off and ahead he was. I mean, he literally, you know, he he was year he was literally conceived and hit the ground running, hit and slide four hands at one year's old just to catch up to Novak. That's the first thing. The field will eventually catch up. And we've seen this from players in the past.

Serena, the players finally come to Serena toward her later her later years. Number two, we've got two things happening. Sorry, we've got two players where things are happening that I'm not going to call it blood in the water yet. I'm just going to say there's a few, for whatever reason, there's a few anomalies that can be exploited. We've seen Yannick Center be physically overwhelmed numerous times. For whatever reason, he cramps and has happened.

Alvin Owusu (25:12.037)
Sure. It happened. It happened. It it's happened multiple times, like regardless of the reason, it has happened.

Torrey Hawkins (25:14.896)
Yeah.

It has happened. And we've also seen as absolutely magnificent as Carlos has looked, he's looked extremely human at some of the Masters 1000s events on hardcore after Australia and other tournaments. So he we still know he has that level in him where he can be very good and then very not so good at times. It's not going to be it's it's not a foregone conclusion that people will just fear his level. Can he still produce phenomenal best?

1000%. He's still Carlos Alcaraz. His record speaks for itself. But it's not to say that players don't know that he can have an off day or an off tournament and be vulnerable. And they know that they can beat him enough at the two out of three side of things, it just brings in a little more belief and commitment from them in a slam. Is it gonna be a tougher dual to slam? 1000%. Same thing with with with center. You've seen him lose up two sets and up a break or two, you've seen surrenderload.

The other Sorendalo beat him, not even Francisco. So you're looking at this now to say, hmm, Swaziri, hmm.

Surrundalo, hm. And these guys aren't roll beaters, Alvin. These guys aren't people that would just come out and take your candy. These are guys that are grinded that willing to stay the course. So I say it to say if you're in a situation and the heat's there, you gotta think that a player in that locker room says, Bring on the heat. I don't mind it, but that might be my chance. And so that's why I say even the top two have shown a bit of an Achilles heel. And here's the third. Alvin, we have now got a number that you've got a

Torrey Hawkins (26:57.82)
A concurrence of two things. The perennial number three, right? The bridesmaid. Alexander Sasha Zverev has now won one. He has belief, he's got track record, and he's always gone deep with those guys. Dare I say he should have beat Carlos in the finals of Australia.

Alvin Owusu (27:01.913)
Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (27:16.814)
Semifinal, semifinal. Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (27:17.152)
In in that in that semifinal. And you know he's been there multiple times with the other with both Novak and Carlos before or or centery hasn't had as much as much success with recently, but he certainly has had but but the other two for sure. And I say that to say he's one part of it. On the other side of it, Alvin, you've got now next gen starting to rear their head like, hey, don't sleep on us. And it's just two of them. We haven't even really we haven't, we're not we're not including the top of

Alvin Owusu (27:28.238)
Yeah, that's a bad one for him.

Torrey Hawkins (27:47.068)
That of that peer group, which is learner 10, and we're talking about blocks and others that are coming coming through Basa Veretti. These kids are starting to show, and you can't forget about the current 6 through 12 that on a given day can still take some candy. I say 6 through 12, let's say 4 through 10, give or take. And that starts with a guy by the name of

I forgot I I just lost my thought. It starts with guys. Felix has been playing great ball up until this point. Kaboli.

We still got Musetti who's out there that will that was hurt this tournament and Casparude and you've you've got a host of host of two others that are still kinda, you know, you don't know them yet, you don't know if they if they can go the distance in Min in Minchik. and who's the other the other big hitter, younger guy with with big game. I'm I'm I'm I'm losing them all my friend of thought. You've got

Alvin Owusu (28:43.576)
Fonseca, Hodar, any of those two.

Torrey Hawkins (28:45.484)
No, not he's not older, but not as old as as the other guys. It'll it'll come to me in second. That that are coming all so you got generation older. I think we talked about this in the podcast before, that older, you know,

The 27 through 2930 age range has an official delegate. You've got the 23 through 26 delegates that have a few players that hey, that can get the job done if need be. And you've now got Operation Next Gen, the under 20, the under-21s, 22s that are being very well represented. my main man. hairline. My boy, went out early. feast.

Alvin Owusu (29:29.646)
Okay. He didn't play. Yeah, he didn't he didn't play. He pulled out for the tournament.

Torrey Hawkins (29:30.56)
Arthur Feast. So I'm saying so. So you got you got you got legit players in that in the depth of that that should they be healthy, you have got true depth. And I think it starts now. Does that say that they've caught up?

Not so sure, but does it say that they are now a little more reachable? Is their best day up to that top player's low day? I think so. And that's why I feel like we've got a chance. And I think it's gonna be a very good thing for them to come back when when when Alcrest comes back healthy, you're gonna start seeing, in my opinion, you're gonna start seeing a very, very fiercely contested you know, a lot of elbowing out of of hey, I'm I'm up in here. And I think

that's this is only going to get better for men's tennis because it's not going to be the and who else that it's been for the last several Grand Slams.

Alvin Owusu (30:25.108)
I'm gonna just kinda break in those groups up a little bit. I I'm with you on the twenty nine through twenty seven kind of cohort, which would include the likes of like obviously Zero, you've got I think Casper might be twenty-seven by now. You've got Taylor Fritz is in that group. I think but I think that group is kinda cooked. Like in like not cooked as in like the kids say they're cooked, but like that and maybe it is the same way that

Those players are formed. Those are fully formed players. And Alexander Zverev has been this version of Alexander Zverev for a a very, very long time. And he just finally but he's always been at the top. I think players like Demonor, like I mentioned, Fritz, Bublick, all these guys, Rublev, right? That group that we we've seen their ceiling, and their ceiling is below center and Alcaraz, and I think what you're starting to see is that that group underneath

Torrey Hawkins (31:11.916)
Yep. Mary. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (31:23.352)
The under twenty-three group, like may like that I would say center and Alcaraz's cohort and younger because they are playing very different styles. And I think that style difference was on display today because of its absence. And I say that because you start to see a lot of these cross court rallies, that back end to back end rally that Zverev got into with or

Kabali allowed himself to get into a Zverev. And I did text you at one point, I was like, he I I'm shocked at how many backhands Kabali is letting Zverev hit. It's almost like he's trying to prove to the world and himself that he he too has a rock solid backhand. You know who doesn't do that? Carlos and and Yannick. They're no, no, no, no. You're gonna hit two backhands and then up the line. We're we're we're we're flipping this table on its on its head. And I I that was like kind of one of the things that I saw that was very stark and like.

Torrey Hawkins (32:01.305)
Yeah. Yes, it's good at that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (32:10.894)
Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (32:21.367)
This is kind of old school tennis. Like the the tennis we've been seeing at the highest ends for the last two years are very it's very different. It's very dynamic. It's very it's not th they they they said, Hey, Mr. Wardlaw, we're we're we're you're out. You're out. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's it's Mario Star. It's yeah, seaball hit ball, Mario Star at all times, just whatever goes. And but I I think and you know

Torrey Hawkins (32:23.234)
Yeah, look.

Torrey Hawkins (32:35.848)
we're updating your book and and we're and we're calling it something else. It's called it's called hit ball.

Torrey Hawkins (32:46.382)
Certo.

Alvin Owusu (32:49.143)
Casper has has said this and Sitsipass has said this, like we've seen the tour change while we've been on the tour. And I think but those players who are twenty three, twenty-four and under, they are the change in the tour. So that's the group that I I believe is the to your point, that's the group that's coming. It's not the guys who are already there. I think we've already started to see that like the the the Fritzes and the and the Rudes and the Rublevs are steadily taking one step.

Torrey Hawkins (33:01.198)
No, the train.

Alvin Owusu (33:17.781)
One small step back in the rankings as we go along.

Torrey Hawkins (33:18.442)
And and and a hundred percent and to your point and they're getting older and they're getting a little more dinged up with

Alvin Owusu (33:23.722)
Sure, yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (33:24.652)
But you can't take away specifically to a guy like Taylor Fritz his adeptness at Wimbledon. You can't take away Metty's ability to he just took a a set or two off of off of center just what, just a week or two ago, right? So there's there you can't say that they're not still relevant and that they still don't have a potency to

Alvin Owusu (33:48.033)
Relevant, sure. Relevant, sure. A threat?

Torrey Hawkins (33:49.292)
Right. And and I'm talking about well, well on the two out of three side for sure, and I'm simply saying at the slams, at the slams, you give me a hot day, you give me an on contender, and you give me a not so stellar day from them. Where before I would have told you even on a bad day, even on a bad day, they could they're still a lock. I don't know if they're locks anymore. And I think that middle group, which I think is where Kaboli is, I think, you know, to your point.

Alvin Owusu (33:56.355)
Sure.

Torrey Hawkins (34:19.246)
any anybody else in that in that cohort, I think that's where you're gonna start seeing a lot of players start to kind of feel, hey, I got a chance here. And the other thing is, and I went three or have a winning record against Kaboli or against Matteo Berrettini or Arnaldi. So now you get that rise in the tide, floats all boats kind of concept. I got a chance too, right? I just feel like there's a lot of confidence that comes from a guy like other a a guy like

Flavio getting to the final of an event like this where people start to realize what's up. And I and you already know what I feel about. I've been touting next gen's thing the whole time. I I do want to make one note on on Joao. And when I was in Portugal, my main man, our bartender named Joao told me how to we gotta put a little extra ooh at the beginning. It's Joao. Bottom line João is officially now

Alvin Owusu (35:12.611)
Жуа.

Torrey Hawkins (35:18.336)
an heir apparent because he's finally no and I'm not gonna be a qualifier because he's finally beaten somebody who had royal status. I have been late slash deliberately hopeful

Alvin Owusu (35:20.752)
welcome to the welcome to the party. Welcome to the party, TH. Okay.

Torrey Hawkins (35:37.138)
And waiting for that to happen. Did I think the kid had potential? Thousand percent. Did I think the kid's gonna be the a phenomenal player? Two thousand percent. He had not done the thing yet, and I hate we dawn night said players well before their time, beating Novak was that match.

Having that match come in the five sets that it did not only forged him, but it also gave him the belief.

And the skill mentally know that he's done it to be able to now be one of those top players. You gotta, you gotta, you gotta beat the man to be the man, Alvin. And I feel like he had not done that up to this point and yet had a whole lot of accolades and a lot of hype. None of it was necessarily undeserved, but as far as his true height and would he be one of that next one to win a slam, bro, winning a slam is a big deal. And you

Have to go through a lot to get to that level. I want to officially welcome Jouao to the potential Grand Slam Club because he's now beat a 24, 24, 25, 24 Grand Slam champ in route. And I think that's one of the things that that where a lot of the players can't necessarily say that. I Jodar is is is very very close to that same situation. And I'm saying I'm not saying he's got a beat center to prove anything to me.

Or anybody else. I'm just saying for his own sake, he's got us. He's they those two and then the three behind him, blocks and you know, learners. Lerner did a little bit of that last time. Last one he beat when he beat Maddie at Australia. He's starting to kind of he's notched his belt with a couple of former Grand Slam chants and top and top five, top teners. That's huge. That to me is the only time you can start to put that person in the conversation. And I'm happy to say that he's done it now.

Alvin Owusu (37:34.978)
Yeah, that's an that's an interesting one, though the Fonseca and and Hodar, right? So Zera beat Hodar in the quarterfinals. and he just kinda like Zerev looked like the professional in the room. but Hodar made the final eight in his first try. This is his this is my man's first year on tour. Like not kinda first year on tour, first year on tour, qualified to get in the Australian Open one.

And now was was he seated in this event? I think he was seated in this event, maybe thirty or th something like that, but but then also made it to the quarterfinals. That's kind of wild. And Fonseca, I think you know, Fonseca loses to Menschik and it's twenty seven? Yeah, okay. So but Fonseca losing to Menschick in the quarterfinals was almost more of a reflection of the work he had to do to get there.

Torrey Hawkins (38:10.446)
Yeah, we're going to lose the

Torrey Hawkins (38:21.144)
Yeah, twenty seven. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (38:32.545)
you know, bringing in that much tennis into the legs, into that into that match. i it just was it was just a bit too much to

Torrey Hawkins (38:40.11)
Yeah. The way Mincic went out too. Right. What Sasha. Right. Right. Exactly. It was it was just it was the same thing around later.

Alvin Owusu (38:43.349)
Right, yeah. And everyone. You do something great and then the next person carries your carcass across the across the threshold.

Yeah, it's almost the same thing, similar to Novak and props to Novak for being able to go five after like self admittedly like draining the the tank more than he wanted to in those opening those opening rounds. I wanna probably gonna it'll be a different conversation for another day, but the Novak of things is very, very interesting to me right now. he Novak played well. He fla he played well for a week. Like and

grass is coming up, people don't get tired on grass. And not many people know how to play on grass.

Torrey Hawkins (39:23.702)
That's true. Don't get trapped on and he's still got the best one, some of the best returns in the game. Some of the he serves Maves of the best of him. I it's still not a foregone conclusion, Alvin, that that brother will is not still a threat. And it's and and and and let me just say the last comment on Zwau. And how fortunate is Zwau that Novak is still around. He's still that litmus test. Former or twenty four former, former.

24 titles, former number one, and you still get to play him. That lesson, that experience, that exposure for a young man, I mean, that's

I if you if you're thinking basketball, imagine a young player coming out right now and he gets to play against, right? He gets to play against a a top player, you know, obviously Jordan of old and you know, maybe your Tony Parker of the of the in the in the Spurs of Things, or or now in today's day, you get to you get to go up toe to toe, you know, with you know, Jalen Brunson or and you're and you're mixing it up with the play that good and you're a rookie. You know what I mean? look at

All the things that you know, I look at Stefan Castle and what he'll he's gonna be able to do in the next two or three years. The brother's still the brother's still young. Imagine how much better he's gonna be in a couple of years. And so my point is as you start seeing all the things he's seen and what he's doing, Victor, you know, is starting to play against some of the best. And this is still his first real year, you know, playing. You're gonna you you look at all the experience you gain from playing some of the greats like that. So I just feel like it's just a such a great opportunity for him. They're gonna be even better as a result, and that's where I come.

Alvin Owusu (40:44.918)
Yeah. Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (41:05.232)
where the torch is is is you know proverbially passed because you've earned it that that's a rite of passage it's not a it's not a you don't stand in line and get your number called you you earn that you know you're it's I like the term forged because you know that match forged yeah Joao's medal he he ain't you know he ain't there to he ain't there to give it to him you know what I mean he ain't there to help him out you know he's he's there to be

Alvin Owusu (41:28.844)
I mean, let's not even let's not even talk about like the aura and all the things that Novak Djokovic has done in his career. Let's let's let's be very recent. this in the last five Grand Slans, he's made the semi-finals or finals and the final in the very in the most recent Grand Slam. So like it's it's it's it's it's all of that is Nov that is Novak Djokovic, and it's Novak Djokovic right now, who is he right, still no joke.

Torrey Hawkins (41:46.05)
Very last one. Thank you.

Torrey Hawkins (41:55.438)
Still no job. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (41:57.891)
And on his old legs, still made the quarterfinals and had to get he was dismissed by a nineteen year old in five s it took him five sets to beat that old man, right? On clay. So it's it's he and I I'm gonna we'll do this later another time. I might even have Bob come 'cause Bob is a Bob's a huge Novak fan and he he loves to talk about Novak. But I think if you're Novak junk fitch, you come into this tournament looking for probably three things, right? When center goes out, you're like, I got a chance, right?

Torrey Hawkins (42:06.796)
Okay.

Alvin Owusu (42:27.392)
Okay, he had not played a lot of matches, he had not necessarily played well up to that point, but he gets through this tournament going, Okay, I didn't win it, but I I was playing well and he didn't leave injured. Right? And so now we're going into the grass court season and it's a lot less taxing and and it it favors those who are experienced working on the lawn and no one is more experienced working on the lawn than one Novak Djokovic in who is healthy and playing well.

Torrey Hawkins (42:39.618)
Right. Right.

Torrey Hawkins (42:55.31)
Yeah. And and Carlos is out.

Alvin Owusu (42:57.344)
I yeah y yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (42:57.758)
And you know, and and Mercedes still out too. I think I thought Mercedes may still be out too, maybe maybe not. But to your point, several you know, he's still, you know, and and he has beaten even Carlos on on the grass. So I I feel like that's a really good thing for for Novak. It's a good point you mentioned. It's kind of certainly adds to the intrigue of it all. But as I said, I I really I really felt like I really feel like the the true depth. By by true depth I mean the contender's list is growing. The contender

list of who may who has the game and the and the results to truly get to a quarter I think is there and I'll be honest Alvin I really like I really like I really like what the tour is going on because A it also makes for great tennis earlier than the quarter and you know you can't you can't say you know you I you there's a potential there is a potential first round match between let's just say a Matteo Berrettini

Alvin Owusu (43:44.854)
Yeah, yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (43:57.596)
right and a Felix RJ L aliasin. There is a potential, you know, who who Berratini has made more finals than Felix, you know, is is as far as it goes, right? There is a potential matchup between Jakob Mens Menschik, you know, against a, you know, a very a very unseated but very solid

Alvin Owusu (44:01.473)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (44:23.192)
I'll I'll give you a good one here. well not necessarily on grass, but create a booster. But you know, players like that that are that are perennial top twenties that are just out outside of it right now, not to mention the whole next gen side of things of the other guys we haven't mentioned who are coming along very nicely. Blocks may finally get healthy. Lerner is still getting better, even though t this this was a routine tournament for him. He didn't beat three seeds like he like he has done in times past. He's now that.

at low seed to your point. And I just feel like we're starting to get those kind of players in the mix and I wanna it's it's starting to it's starting to get a little bit tough. It's like it's like the end of a of a weightlifting not weightlifting you know bodybuilder competition where everybody's fighting for for room on the stage to get in front of the judge.

Alvin Owusu (45:09.056)
Yeah, yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (45:10.806)
Elbowing each other out. I mean, buddy, it is, you know, everybody's showing off their their their work and and and and it's it's starting to show. That's what I mean when I say it's starting to be really good, have good parody. The women, to me, by comparison, there isn't that one or two only, right? They're all the four the four or five of them, of course, with Arena being the most consistent, they are they are all

God, how do I say this and put it put it nicely? There isn't, this is not an era of one player who just has the tour on lockdown. There is a, I'm gonna call my girl Arena a 1.5. She's the best 1.5 we've had in the last 15 years. It's post-seren. 1.5 meaning she's she can be anybody on a given day.

She can be beaten on certain days by any of the top four, but she's the one, she's like Zvera, she's always getting deep. She's usually the last one standing to her credit. At the same time, she has three or four people that can take her, that can that can take her to the to the mat if they're playing well. And I think that

I think the era has changed. We're not looking at a Serena-like era where there's just they're just so far ahead of everybody else. They have now caught up to. And therefore, that's why Arena is not having some of the same success termine in, term it out. It's gotten that strong. And that's my point. The men are starting to get that deep and they're starting to get where they're it's that contentious. It wasn't like that before. You would not expect an 18-year-old to take out or 19-year-old to take out.

your multiple time Grand Slam champion that they wouldn't have the experience, let alone the belief. Now they have both and have done it. And it and it it it changes things out. It really does, in my opinion.

Alvin Owusu (47:10.549)
Yeah, I I I'm with you. I hear what you're saying. I I'm just not quite ready to I'm like you dealing with Fonseca three months ago. I what I I I hear what you're saying, but I'm not ready to go that far with the men's tour because of it took a lot of it took a a major confluence of events for us to end up with Alexander Zverev playing Flavio Kabali in the finals of the French Open, right? What happened to

Torrey Hawkins (47:19.789)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (47:39.808)
The one point five, I like that one point five take on the women's side. in that, yes, we say Arena is the most dominant woman on tour, but she's also won one of the last six Grand Slam. So it's like, how do you make that make sense? It's like, well, everything else in between. Like she's in the finals a lot or she's in the semifinals a lot. She's always there. She's effectively Alexander Zvera, but has has touched a c a few more gold rings than he has.

Torrey Hawkins (47:51.331)
Hands down.

Torrey Hawkins (47:55.32)
Exactly.

Right.

Torrey Hawkins (48:08.28)
Yep. And and continue. And we'll continue to do so. The I hear you and and I'm not trying to convince you. I think it's a good point you make you make. I just feel it's starting to happen. I can just feel the undertow happening. I feel the belief kicking in. it just gonna take a few of those players to stay a little more to stay healthy long enough to make it happen. Because the same three things I'm mentioning, Alvin.

Alvin Owusu (48:09.599)
Few were

Torrey Hawkins (48:33.976)
The number one and two have shown some vulnerability. That that's the biggest thing that you've continued to see. It's not like you've seen Carlos Alcaraz have that year. What year was that that Novak was like something stupid, like seventy two and five or something like that? Didn't he have remember that year where he was? It was some some year where he lost five or six matches or something like that. Like the year.

Alvin Owusu (48:51.329)
What happened? Like was it was it nineteen? Was it twenty nineteen?

Yeah, yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (48:58.278)
It was just crazy his level of dominance that year. And I say that to say we've not seen either player as much of a run as Carlos was on recently. sorry, Yannick was on recently coming into this tournament. We've not seen that level of dominance from a player year over all year long. He's beaten.

The other good player, he had his 90 days a year ago, kind of coming to this tournament. He had a he kind of microwaved himself and got himself ready with the Italian Open, had a nice run, and then lost to Carlos. We've seen him play some great tennis up until he had a he had a great Wimbledon and I thought he played great. Carlos back and forth. But even during that time, as good as you know Carlos is, you didn't see Carlos even toward the end of that year, finish out the year, just ball it.

Then you saw him come out in Australia, right? And then you saw him stub his toe. So my point is you see these you see this sign and cosign of him a lot. And and and now of course we know about center struggles and with with the elements and I don't know what it is. I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna say he's had he's proven to have had troubles in

Alvin Owusu (50:06.027)
In the heat. Yeah. Sure.

Torrey Hawkins (50:06.712)
Physically. I'll I'll put it like that. I you can and you can do whatever you want to for what it is and what it isn't. Call the preparation, call it conditioning. I don't care. I don't know what you call it. It's proven he is physically he can be he can be physically challenged at certain times. And it's also proven they can come back from those matches and and put a put a whooping on you too. I'm just saying it's not it's not out of the realm possibility. If my if my mental tally is correct, five of the last six or seven slams.

Alvin Owusu (50:26.241)
Mm-hmm.

Torrey Hawkins (50:36.656)
He's had some match going into that tournament or during that that two weeks where he was a hairbreadth of getting beaten. And I

Alvin Owusu (50:47.905)
Australian Open twenty twenty five was the was the Holgeruna match. He wasn't really close to getting beaten, but he was he was he was in a bad way. Yeah, yeah. Wimbledon last year, for sure. Grigor Grigor had him dead to rights. Australian Open this year. And then French Open this year.

Torrey Hawkins (50:55.291)
Close to close to getting out of it, right?

Yep. They have the right. Yep.

So th there's four. There might there might be one more word but that I'm missing. I only say it to say.

Alvin Owusu (51:10.155)
That's four.

Torrey Hawkins (51:15.714)
That's enough. And if that happens with the elements being what they are, who knew the French was going to be nine degrees for three or four or five days? You know what I mean? in the first week. So I only sp I only say it to say those two things bring everything down to a I can just qu I can almost touch it. You add that to the level of the players that are there. Yeah, you add a little bit of strain. You add a little bit of of a five-sep match. It should have been three. You add to that a player who's hot, who who doesn't know anybody. He doesn't know that he can't make that shot.

And I think that's what Gen X, that's what this next gen's are starting to show. Next gen is starting to show we don't mind smacking that ball and going down the line if you're crossed six times in a row. And we can get there and we will make that shot. We're not gonna grind. We're not gonna let you grind. We're gonna make you play our our kind of tennis. And that also challenges your tactics. It challenges your fitness. And I just feel those are the kind of matches what we're in now. I really feel like they're starting to catch. Do I think it'll take another year or so? I do. But do I think that it's

starting, I do. And I and I'm looking forward to seeing it.

Alvin Owusu (52:17.374)
Yeah. just the wanna kinda come back to that that those two Novak seasons, it was in twenty nineteen. It was twenty eleven and twenty fifteen. twenty eleven he went seventy and six, won three slams, ten titles. Twenty fifteen he went eighty-two and six or sorry, eighty and six, also won three slams, eleven titles. Like that's that's like that's like taking what center's doing in the Masters and then also tacking on

Torrey Hawkins (52:36.353)
Eighty two.

Alvin Owusu (52:46.773)
Three great slimes to it, right? Which is kind of interesting.

Torrey Hawkins (52:48.578)
Right. Twice.

twice and that's what I mean when I say having a lockdown. That is lockdown. And I don't think Carlos or Center have have have had tennis on lockdown to that degree. And they've had, and you can't say that Novak didn't have two or three other players like a Federer, like a Nadal, like at that point in time, Burdick and and other players that were just as good or at the at the level to to to hang. And he did it during that time frame. So to me, I'm just saying that's that's the and and

And you know, you got to credit where credit is due. That's why he's the goat. You know, we talk about Serena. That's why she was. And in this era, right? It's it's hard, it's gonna be hard going forward to get to have that level of dominance by yourself. You know, it's it's just man, it's it's hard enough to be that kind of a player, let alone to be that by yourself. It's you don't have control over that. That's not yours to say, you know, the competition has a say in that. So anyway, I just feel like we're starting to enter a red

Alvin Owusu (53:41.204)
Yeah. Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (53:51.84)
realm where you're not looking at, you're not looking down, or at least you shouldn't, looking down, well, who else is there for who's there to challenge Yannick? Two weeks ago we were both looking at this saying, you know, who's our, who's our who will challenge center, right? Who might get to the final, who might play in the final? He didn't make it to the final, Alvin.

Alvin Owusu (54:11.624)
Right. So that's that's it's interesting. Like when we start to look at as, you know, and we'll we'll process this probably in a couple days or or weeks. We got a little time between the next Grand Slam to talk about all the things, but i Yannick Sinner, we would say he's been the most dominant player. You could say he's been the most dominant player this year, yet he has not won a grand slam. Yannick hasn't won a grand slam since Wimbledon of last year. Like if you were we're coming up on forty nine weeks of no slams, which is

Torrey Hawkins (54:28.6)
Sure. Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (54:37.505)
One point five.

Alvin Owusu (54:40.048)
But then yeah, it's it's got it's really we're in a really interesting place and we don't get we won't have Carlos back probably until it seems like hardcourt season. I don't know, I haven't heard the official word, but you see the videos he's training without his right hand, hitting a lot of lefty forehands, which is always fun to see. and and I don't even if he comes back for the US Open, I don't know that I expect to see full flight Carlos until let's put it off until next year, right?

Torrey Hawkins (54:43.404)
Of man. Tough.

Torrey Hawkins (55:09.122)
He he's gotta he's gotta get what was your number? Twenty matches? You know, he ten matches. Yeah, you gotta get ten matches in at at that level. You know, so that's you know, that's that's two that's minimum two tournaments. You know what mean?

Alvin Owusu (55:12.682)
Ten matches, ten matches. He needs ten matches. Ten matches.

Alvin Owusu (55:21.63)
Yeah, and he'll be I think when we see him he'll be ready. And but yeah, that's that's coming into the US hardcourt swing potentially. And you know, we'll we'll we'll see. we'll see. It's just an interesting I I as much as I am looking at the women's side and I'm I'm I'm I'm full of it's full of wonder and possibility. The men's side right now is it's kind of full of like question marks, a little head scratcher, like what

Torrey Hawkins (55:41.622)
Yeah, yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (55:47.48)
No. No.

Alvin Owusu (55:50.335)
We we're gonna run into the exact same scenario, Wimbledon, right? Giannis gonna be on top. It's gonna be, you know, whoever else is gonna be able to get themselves there. but you won't have the same factor of like fatigue 'cause it's on grass, right? but you do have the other side of like not everyone grows up playing on grass. Like everyone plays on clay, like everyone everyone gets it. and so they get to beat the crap out of each other. But now we have this other weird factor of grass court tennis.

Torrey Hawkins (56:03.235)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (56:18.802)
I don't know what to expect for Wimbledon. The the start the beginning will be the same. It's what side of the draw does Novak fall on? Right? And then and then it's like it's like Boulder Dash or whatever, Marble Run or something like whatever you call it. But like once something pops, we will see. one thing I want to talk to kind of address before we get out of here. there was a a one of our listeners was commenting about how

Torrey Hawkins (56:26.712)
Yep. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (56:47.086)
they missed us during the the second week of the Grand Slam. And that was that was not on purpose. That was on that was on me. I inadvertently took a vacation. I yes, I went to the French open, but I only went to the women's semifinals. My wife and I were celebrating ten years or ten year anniversary. So we were in France. It's it's great, it's great, still married. it we were in France, but that also makes it very hard to do a podcast when I am out and about all the time. You're six hours behind me. It it I didn't even watch that much tennis until like the evening when

I got the the the primetime matches, you know, kind of same time zone. so a lot happened. But I do wanna kinda put this out here if you're still listening, put it in the comments. What would you guys like to see from us or hear from us during a Grand Slam? Like there are lots of outlets that, you know, do a full episode, like a like tennis podcast that are on site, they'll do a full 60 to 90 minute episode each day, but they are three people who are there on site, right?

Torrey Hawkins (57:19.33)
Right.

Alvin Owusu (57:45.192)
And then you have and then you have Andy over at Served who's doing, you know, quick hitters maybe twenty, thirty minutes a day, kind of bouncing around, touching on scores. we do things a little differently here, but if you'd like to hear more from us, we try to do every round, which is like, you know, every other day, we've toss of the notable.

Torrey Hawkins (58:04.59)
of the notable. of notable. We're not we're not here to be a recap. We're not here to

Alvin Owusu (58:09.44)
I'm not gonna read you the scores. Yeah, yeah. They're

Torrey Hawkins (58:11.362)
You you can use the SPN app or the or the tournament app for for that. But and but again, I to your point, Alvin, I'd like to hear what they would find intriguing. so, you know, it helps helps point us into a direction of you know, of of the of of what listeners and fans are are trying to viewers and listeners are trying would like to hear more of. I think that would be a great great thing to hear hear back from.

Alvin Owusu (58:39.297)
Absolutely, absolutely. okay, I think we're good. I think that's I think we have sufficiently done the men's final in the best of three fashion. So we'll put a pin in it there. again, a fun run. I'm Alvin. That's Tori. Best of three, we are out.