Jannik Sinner, Wimbledon, and the Limits of Tennis’ Most Revered Test

Wimbledon remains the sport’s most sacred stage, but this episode asks whether it is still the cleanest measure of tennis greatness. Grass demands a specialized version of the game: short points, first-strike precision, elite returning, low-contact movement, and the ability to hold focus when one lapse can decide a set.

That lens leads directly to Jannik Sinner. Patrick and Alvin discuss why Sinner’s game may be uniquely suited to Wimbledon, not because grass reveals the full sport, but because it amplifies his most punishing qualities. The conversation also places Alexander Zverev’s recent surge in context, separating him from the wider field while keeping him a tier below Sinner and Carlos Alcaraz.

The episode closes by widening the frame: Felix Auger-Aliassime as a player whose tennis may still exceed his late-stage belief, and the women’s game as a case study in the difference between tennis excellence and tennis marketability.

Transcript

Alvin Owusu (00:00.734)
And welcome to another edition of the best of three podcast. I'm Alvin, that's Patrick. And if you've been with us for a while, you know that once the grand slams end, Patrick pars time begins. So we're here, Pat. I look forward to these shows. Obviously I love doing the show with Tori, these episodes are a little different. They're still fun. And I can tell you people also get a kick out of them. So here we are.

Patrick Parr (00:27.645)
Here we are. Here are. Yes.

Alvin Owusu (00:29.582)
Here we are, here we are. Pat, I don't know if people know, Pat's a writer and he writes books for a living. He teaches classes at a university, but we played college tennis together. That's how we know each other from way back when. And generally these conversations start off with Pat has a bit of a, we'll say a hypothesis, we'll call it a hypothesis or a thesis or some kind of story starter. And we go from there and

Patrick Parr (00:51.293)
Mm.

Patrick Parr (00:56.837)
Mm.

Alvin Owusu (00:58.924)
I think about it for some time and then we get on here and we hit record. So one, Pat, how are you doing? Let's start there.

Patrick Parr (01:05.701)
Yeah, doing well, doing well. I love how our podcasts are positioned like in the twilight zone of the tennis season. You know? Every s I'm like, okay, is it officially the time when everyone has stopped decided stopped thinking about tennis, okay, and let's go. Hopefully hopefully though, people are still thinking about it, but you know.

Alvin Owusu (01:13.454)
You

Alvin Owusu (01:31.247)
I can tell you from what I see in our numbers that there is a people, the greater people are looking at tennis up until like today. They stopped. I've seen the numbers and some of our content just kind of hit the wall today. So this is a good time. think we're in that kind of space where people are doing weird stuff. Like some people are playing on clay right now. Some people are playing on hardcore.

Patrick Parr (01:46.663)
Yeah. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (01:58.031)
Hell, there's a grass court tournament in Newport, Rhode Island. People are very in tune with the World Cup right now. So this is good time to have a little, to get a little loose and have a little fun. But yeah, we shall see. We shall see.

Patrick Parr (02:15.881)
yeah. So I came on and we we've been texting back and forth and I was thinking a lot about Wimbledon and what it was about it that was kind of upsetting me this time around. More more so than other seasons. It's I guess when I think about Wimbledon, y I think about this this place that's a little bit above all the other tournaments, right? Would would you agree that the it has this

Alvin Owusu (02:41.016)
People speak about it with a certain amount of reverence. Like it is the, it's the one. Yeah.

Patrick Parr (02:43.933)
sanctimonious, right? All the yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I was starting to write about it first because I I couldn't get it out of my head and I couldn't when I'm confused about something and b about how I'm feeling, I just okay, I'll write it until I un I see it clearly. So there was one paragraph that I kept out of like a couple pages which was just utter dribble. And I thought

Alvin Owusu (03:01.283)
Yes.

Patrick Parr (03:11.739)
Well, I th I think it helps us kind of talk about it right here. So I all right. So I think Wimbledon is badly in need of support from the ATP tour. So for example, I don't I know companies are companies, but we'll get to that later. But so its surface does not measure a player's success. Okay. I think that's it's an independently nostalgic moment on the tour. So

Alvin Owusu (03:15.458)
Read it to me.

Alvin Owusu (03:34.284)
Okay. Okay.

Patrick Parr (03:42.014)
these are all statements that I think you might disagree with a little bit, but well let me I'll finish it, but

Alvin Owusu (03:49.368)
Keep going, yeah.

Patrick Parr (03:51.443)
Wimbledon, of course, attracts the largest global audience. And by the way, I did talk to my father-in-law about Wimbledon, and this is the first time I've ever spoken to my father-in-law, who's Japanese, about tennis. He was like, Wimbledon. And I thought, my god, he likes tennis. So this was this was a bit of a bit of a shock. But so I think it's exceptionality, Wimbledon, is both a gift and a curse.

Alvin Owusu (04:17.272)
Yep. Okay.

Patrick Parr (04:20.163)
So I I think Wimbledon, it floats in the clouds. Players, they float up to the cloud, they do their thing, then they come back to Earth, and it's respected and adored, but it's also unapproachable and glossy. So that's I think that's what it has to be, Wimbledon. It has it's it can be the definition of the game, but never the example.

Alvin Owusu (04:45.27)
Okay. Okay. And that's interesting. Okay. That's interesting on a lot of different levels. as we closed our last podcast episode, Tori and Tori raised the question, do I believe that grass course season should be longer? And my answer was, I think to his surprise was yes. If we're, feel like if we're going to have a grand slam on the surface, then we need to have an appropriate season on the surface. And I think that kind of speaks to what you just said, right?

Patrick Parr (04:50.097)
Mm.

Alvin Owusu (05:13.902)
The grass court season is so short that for a player to do well on grass or not do well on grass does not really speak to the player's overall ability as a 365, 52 week tennis player. It's either I'm Casper Rudin, I'm not good on grass so I don't worry about it, or I'm a Czech woman and I'm great on grass and that's just kinda how it goes.

Patrick Parr (05:29.745)
Right.

Alvin Owusu (05:41.92)
Or someone like giving up for the back like someone like a Richard Krychak, right? Like peaked on grass a couple times. But yeah, that's, okay, that a, in our sport, is that a problem?

Patrick Parr (05:48.358)
yeah, right, right.

Patrick Parr (05:58.757)
Hm. That's the thing. You know, y I I was I don't know. I don't think it's a problem. Ma but something about it bothered me in that it's not something that's looked at again later. Like what like in nineteen seventy four, Grass Court was the surface for three of the Grand Slamps. Right? So after nineteen seventy four they started to change. Of course US Open, Australian Open

Alvin Owusu (06:20.846)
That is correct.

Patrick Parr (06:28.377)
And then suddenly grass just becomes this independent entity, this one moment where we we all think about the history of the game, everybody dresses up in white, and then and then it then it's over and we just go to hardcourt and and we watch players really get into the nitty-gritty of the sport, I feel. I I I feel at this point you you know, you can play a maximum of twenty-two grass court matches if you are a player in about the top fifty. You can play twenty-two.

That's it. If you win every tournament in the grass court season, I put air quotes by the way. So it's like a month, right? So I think in that way, how can we make grass more relevant to the tour? Tories, right? I I listened to the end of that podcast, and I mean I I think

The US needs a thousand level grass court tournament. You're looking at these stories that did you see the Court of Dreams doc? Yeah, in Iowa, right? Me too.

Alvin Owusu (07:31.446)
In Iowa. Yeah, I want to go. I want to go. for the listeners, this grass court in Iowa. This guy, has worked with the Wimbledon's grounds crew. built this, Mark Kuhn, yes, he built this. I'll try to remember to put that in the show notes and some more information about it. But he built this grass court in memory of his son who passed away and people come and they play tournaments there sometimes. But you can rent.

Patrick Parr (07:45.659)
Mark Kuhn, I think, yeah. Yep. Yep.

Patrick Parr (07:59.729)
Hm.

Alvin Owusu (08:01.325)
you know, rent a place to stay nearby and play on this court. He just wants people to come and play on it. And, um, like it's very, it's a very legit crash. was looking at it like literally yesterday on Google maps and I'm like, I kind of, is it time? Is it time for me just to go? Is that where I, is that where I am right now in my tennis journey? Just go, like just who wants to go to Iowa with me? It's a hard sell, but you know, we'll see. It's a hard sell. It's a hard sell.

Patrick Parr (08:18.781)
Ha ha ha

Patrick Parr (08:24.635)
That is a hard sell. Yeah. I but for me, well I think what he I think if I remember the numbers correctly, like nine thousand people have played. Madison Keyes played there. she you know, h he's gotten a few names

Alvin Owusu (08:36.726)
Okay.

Patrick Parr (08:40.227)
at the and there's also another place near not near, I mean it's it's around Iowa, but there's three grass courts, it's in the quad cities, I can't remember the name, but there there's other grass court efforts in the in that area that are occurring so so well I thought if that if these e are being romanticized to such a point, is that not

Is that not enough for us to maybe invest in grass? But then I'm thinking about grass court as a game in general, and I don't know, maybe I'll push this back to you. Do you f do you enjoy the French Open matches more than Wimbledon matches?

Alvin Owusu (09:23.533)
I get in trouble for this one a lot because I do. I don't love grass court tennis. It's not my favorite. It is the worst, for me personally, the way that I appreciate watching tennis, the expression on grass court is the least conducive for that style of tennis. that's just me. And I don't think that's a far-fetched opinion. It's different than I hate Wimbledon, because I don't. I appreciate Wimbledon for what it is.

Patrick Parr (09:32.338)
Mm.

Patrick Parr (09:41.851)
Yes, yes.

Patrick Parr (09:49.979)
Mean probably really.

Alvin Owusu (09:52.854)
I think the cop for Wimbledon is the Monte Carlo F1 race. Most F1 races are, you know, pedal to the metal, wide open. There are some twists and turns here and there, but like it is about machine and speed and driver, you know, aggression, not aggression, but like, know, you, you think about racing a formula one car, you think about like,

Patrick Parr (10:01.041)
Mm. Mm.

Alvin Owusu (10:21.709)
some other race like Bahrain or Bath or whatever is in the Netherlands. But the Monte Carlo course is tight. It's tight and it's in a street. It's through Monte Carlo. you're you're kind of street racing, these big cars though, it's very, once you get kind of in formation, it's...

Patrick Parr (10:26.716)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (10:48.555)
It's all about tactics. can't really pass people. It's very unique is what I'm saying. It is unlike the others. You can win Monte Carlo, but that does not necessarily mean you are the best Formula One racer. You tend to see a lot of people who do well in Monte Carlo continue to do well in Monte Carlo. I think it's called Monaco, actually, the Monaco race. I think Wimbledon is similar. It is not a skill set you can build your career on. You can't be a grass court specialist and

Patrick Parr (11:07.49)
okay. Got it.

Alvin Owusu (11:17.931)
make it on the Pro Tour, but you can do well here. And maybe that's just, it's okay. I think when you look back at it from a fan standpoint, it's like, we have something different. And I think having something different is good, but.

Patrick Parr (11:23.566)
Mm, mm.

Patrick Parr (11:37.373)
True, true.

Alvin Owusu (11:40.139)
But what do I get from it?

Patrick Parr (11:42.161)
Hmm. Like there's no mo there's no momentum to Wimbledon. Like I know I know Arthur Arthur Ferry, right? He made that semi final run and

Alvin Owusu (11:44.877)
I don't know. I don't know.

Patrick Parr (11:56.987)
all that and it was a very very good story but I I and I don't mean I hope Arthur Ferry proves me wrong, but I I don't see him duplicating for the rest of the season what he was doing. Maybe I maybe he'll prove me wrong, I don't know. But that is how I I feel Wimbledon can be so inaccurate with a player's ability to go far in tournaments. Because it's this just this

one two strike almost on every point, right? I mean the big serve come in if you're you you get the ball on the rise, the point's over. You know, and it's it just I I remember even twenty-five years ago I was watching Ivanisovich play rafter and it was ace or it was serve volley over you know or something like that and

When I was watching that match, I loved Rafter at the time. And I thought, wow, I mean this this could be everything for Rafter's career or something. But he had already won the US Open twice, playing far far more developed points that required more stamina, more more pr instant problem solving, I felt. But so at Wimbledon it was just Ivanisevich

aced him out of that match eventually. It took a long time. It was like nine seven in the fifth, but I like wha what is Wimbledon? What does Wimbledon want to be in in that way? So

Alvin Owusu (13:22.317)
I mean, I will say.

Alvin Owusu (13:26.989)
I mean, I feel like in defense of grass court, and we're talking about men's grass court tennis here, right? Because I think the women have shown the ability to, their game, I would say more so translates onto grass as a version of what we're used to seeing on both hard and clay. You see lot more longer, you see longer points, more fully developed powers, not as much at a premium. So I think you get a little more there. But then in the women's final, you did see someone whose game style matched our

Patrick Parr (13:35.581)
That's true.

Alvin Owusu (13:56.833)
better with, grass court and, Linda knows if I was able to kind of take advantage of, of that, but you know, back to your point about, I still think there is a certain mental test that, you know, that, that grass court on the men's side, that Wimbledon on the men's side kind of provides in that you don't have the ability to develop points as much.

Patrick Parr (14:01.667)
Mm. True.

Patrick Parr (14:12.54)
Hm.

Patrick Parr (14:20.669)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (14:25.588)
which then also provides less room for error. Like if you lose a service game, like you're probably not getting it back. Whereas on clay, you lose a service game, like you could, you got a better chance of getting it back. Better than hard, much better than grass. But the point there is the amount of focus it takes to stay in it. Like you gotta stay in it. And I think that was,

Patrick Parr (14:53.669)
Mm.

Alvin Owusu (14:55.71)
on display in the first two sets of Zverev versus Sinner. The pressure was so thick because you could tell, both players could tell, there was very, very little room for effort. Mess around and lose your serve one time and you're done. Even more so magnified the tiebreaker. Actually, this question, you brought up Arthur Ferry. Or maybe we can save it. You wanted to say something else.

Patrick Parr (15:04.22)
Mm.

Patrick Parr (15:21.969)
Hmm. No no no. Well we'll go to our Arthur Ferry. It's okay. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (15:27.104)
The Arthur Ferry thing is interesting to me because obviously I'm in the States, right? I know the audience here on Best of Three is, you know, it is becoming what it's becoming and I don't have no control over that, right? The people who show up and like this brand of BS, they show up and like this brand of BS. So like it is what it is. I love you guys. But it's, yeah, it's great. No, it's great, it's great.

Patrick Parr (15:53.265)
Me too. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (15:56.473)
so this could be a small sample size, but I will say that the Arthur Ferry thing, while it was happening, I don't feel like it was as big of a deal as the uniqueness of the scenario. Like a wild card who grew up in the town that the tournaments being played in made the frigging semi-finals of the tournament. And it kind of felt like, like, like.

Patrick Parr (16:12.645)
Mm.

Alvin Owusu (16:25.952)
I mean, we watch things here on ESPN, right? So I'm getting it through a certain lens, but it felt like even ESPN was like, okay, we'll try, but like we, everyone knows like this is how this is gonna go when whoever meets the road. And I felt like it even like, Tori and I talked about it and it just kind of like, it didn't really perform like, maybe because I wasn't into it. Maybe the audience could tell I wasn't into it. I don't know. I don't know. What about you? How did it land for you?

Patrick Parr (16:29.789)
Mm.

Patrick Parr (16:33.547)
Mm.

Patrick Parr (16:39.26)
Right.

Patrick Parr (16:46.085)
Yeah.

Patrick Parr (16:50.065)
Well yeah, no with no with I Ferry landed well, because Ferry how how tall is Ferry exactly? I mean, I think he's yeah, yeah. And sh there's another Japanese player who was making some noise. he would on the train ride to work all the time, Shintaro Mochizuki. Right, right. But it that was a big deal, that he won the f he got through qualities and then

Alvin Owusu (16:59.638)
Five-nine on paper.

Alvin Owusu (17:10.612)
Yes, he lost a sinner, I believe, right? Was that? Yeah.

Patrick Parr (17:19.303)
Third round, fourth round, you know, he it was it was big. And he's short too. He I think he's the same height as Ferry. So I have mad respect for short players who are able to perform at that level, like Oliver Rocus in the past, Santoro. I mean, just that's incredible. and talk about margin for error. My God. I mean, when you're when you're in five nine playing at Wimbledon against these serve bot-ish people.

I mean that that's you you really have to be inventive and the angle of your shot matters quite a bit, just as much as the placement. So Fairy, I mean, he he did his thing. I mean he had a crowd. He had a crowd that was probably slightly intimidating to the other to the opponent, like the blast that he was getting on each shot. I I don't know if people who play tennis in a big crowd

I've I've done that a few times. I I'm not that great or at all, but when I was in the middle of a match and I had this big crowd completely rooting against me, it can either make you completely defeated or turn you into maybe what Djokovic has done his whole career, which is just to flip the script and, you know, be, you know, the devil incarnate to these people in a in a way that gets him to a different level.

But I think Ferry just was the he was a benef he was he benefited from this home court advantage and that was that. So but so I don't think it's sustainable. I don't think Ferry can keep doing this. I but

Yeah, and I think the announcers when they were making that trying to make something out of it, they just kept thinking, Well, if Murray hadn't been so damn good, we would have a more historic story here, but yeah. Right. Well he always made the semis, I know that, but yeah. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (19:16.352)
Heh. Heh.

Or even Hinman.

Yeah, I don't know if he ever made the final. But yeah, it's, it's, was an interesting, well, a couple of things with fairy. Um, I think, uh, Andy Roddick, this is second time I've mentioned Andy Roddick in the last two podcasts, but Andy mentioned in his preview, uh, of the tournament that he, he always feels good about. Sometimes short players tend to overperform at Wilmington because they can use their, their stockiness to absorb, um,

Patrick Parr (19:33.083)
Hmm. Yeah.

Patrick Parr (19:39.227)
Yeah, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (19:56.434)
Absorb the the thickness of the ball coming up off the ground I say that and that like on a clay court ball hits ground Friction sends ball up right you then have to use a lot of more a lot more swing weight to get the ball moving Because you're you know distance between bounce and and and contact of that It's just a lot more to deal with up there. But when you're playing on grass the ball doesn't come up You're there's a premium on being able to stay low at all times

Patrick Parr (20:10.877)
Mm.

Patrick Parr (20:16.507)
Yeah. I see.

No.

Alvin Owusu (20:25.932)
And so if someone is already closer to the optimal height, um, it then becomes easier for them to say low where that ball is and use their body through it. Also having grown up playing almost courts, like specifically almost courts is very beneficial to him. Like his mother was a member there. Like he knows not only does he know grass, he knows that grass. Um, which is, you you can't, you can't overstate that because being playing at home.

Patrick Parr (20:29.149)
True.

Patrick Parr (20:42.663)
Well no doubt.

Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (20:52.79)
You know, even when we were college, playing on home courts, very different playing on away courts. The process of getting ready to play there is, it's like we hit there yesterday, we hit there this morning, we're playing the match here now. I know all the bounces on this court. And then yes, the people, the crowds come and that's like, you know, it does lift you up. It does fuel you. And he got up, mean, no shade to Arthur Ferri, obviously. Like he was a good player to begin with. You don't just get yourself from the UK to Stanford.

Patrick Parr (20:53.126)
Hm.

Patrick Parr (21:09.969)
That's fuel, right. Yep. Yep.

Patrick Parr (21:16.797)
Right.

Alvin Owusu (21:21.036)
to play tennis there and then make it to, you know, top one 10 on the pro tour, but he got a pretty kind draw. What was he got a kind draw and ZZ Berg's like dead choked in the third round, like dead choked in the third.

Patrick Parr (21:29.813)
yeah. yeah. That was a Christmas gift. Yeah. That was I I I think yeah. Hm I I feel yeah, yeah. Well what I was gonna say though, of f let's see. We're we were talking about fairy, but I think

Alvin Owusu (21:41.654)
But these things happen.

Patrick Parr (21:51.683)
At this point, we we need to kind of move away from him and I need to talk a little bit more about Sinner, just a little. I mean, I know my god, there's just not enough content about Sinner, but but I I think now I see that this type of atmosphere, this type of point construction, it is so center. And I kept thinking, like, who does Cinner embody at this point at Wimbledon? And I kept thinking I I again Roddick, I don't know who came

Alvin Owusu (21:58.998)
Sure.

Patrick Parr (22:21.587)
up with the stat first but Sinner has never won a match over three hours and 50 minutes. Have did you see that? Or and right, it was three I think it was 346 for this Verev match or something. But so right. But so I kept thinking who who is he embodying right now? And I kept thinking about prime Tyson. Prime Mike Tyson. So

Alvin Owusu (22:28.991)
Yep. 348 I think is the, it's the number. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (22:36.991)
Yes, close. Real close.

Alvin Owusu (22:50.475)
Okay? Okay?

Patrick Parr (22:51.451)
Like Tyson won Tyson was thirty seven and before he lost to Buster Douglas. And everybody who watches boxing just a little bit knows that Tyson, first round, second round, third round is just that's it's it's intimidating, right? And I feel Center is on this massive, very targeted mission to end his matches as soon as possible. And Wimbledon fits that.

Right? Wimbledon's like, okay, big serve, hit that forehand, you're you're done soon. So I I just don't see Center w losing Wimbledon for a little while. Even even when Alcaraz, who's gonna be a completely different player when he comes back, I feel,

Alvin Owusu (23:38.623)
the okuras of things. Yeah. Yeah, it's a

Patrick Parr (23:40.582)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (23:45.628)
Okay, let's put it this way of all the grand slams You feel like this is the one that he's gonna have the easiest opportunity to repeat dominance I guess I say that but he hasn't that's the only one he's won the last year. So let's I guess we can leave it at that but I In that no player on the ATP tour right now is a is a ready as a tailor-made Player for grass. I don't think that exists anymore

Patrick Parr (23:55.313)
Yeah, I do. I do. I I yeah.

Alvin Owusu (24:15.805)
He might be the closest, like all things considered. Like the players that succeed on grass are athletic, good returners, and you need to have definitely an above average serve. He is extremely athletic. He is the best returner on tour. He's also the best server on tour. I mean, the math is math in there. I could, yeah.

Patrick Parr (24:18.321)
Yeah.

Patrick Parr (24:36.421)
Mm.

Right. Yeah, i i back to back to back to back. He the next two years it's his. So I just don't know anyone who's even remotely close to that type of mentality for Wimbledon. And Wimbledon's not gonna change its perennial rye grass, right? It's not gonna change it so that we have longer points and a higher ball. So

Alvin Owusu (24:44.265)
Yeah, it's.

Patrick Parr (25:08.017)
Yeah, it's it's his. It's his, man. And y you kind of alluded to it earlier. You cause you said F one, right? You were bringing up F one. What does sinner love more than anything? I mean this this it to him, I right? Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (25:09.611)
Well, I mean

Alvin Owusu (25:19.605)
hahahaha

That's fair, I mean Wimbledon, they changed the grass in 2000 I think it was, right? They slowed it up a little bit in 2000. And I did hear an interview where they've been testing artificial, some artificial grass out at the practice courts. They've had artificial grass like at 20 to 30 % on the practice courts for like the last three years. They just didn't tell anybody. They just like wove it in there and.

Patrick Parr (25:29.426)
Yeah.

Patrick Parr (25:39.804)
Really.

Patrick Parr (25:51.271)
Hmm.

Alvin Owusu (25:51.296)
to help the course play a little truer longer. And their plan was just, we're gonna put it in here, we're not gonna tell anyone, and we're gonna see if anyone notices. And no one noticed. They didn't mention it until this year. So I think Wimbledon has always been known for, it's kind of weird, it's a club, right? It's a very private club that then turns into the, it's like one of most technology-forward tournaments on the tour. They're always trying things. They're always pushing the envelope as much as they can.

Patrick Parr (25:57.885)
Mm.

Patrick Parr (26:02.631)
Yeah.

Patrick Parr (26:08.956)
Hmm.

Patrick Parr (26:19.677)
True.

Alvin Owusu (26:21.451)
Um, but I think, you know, they'll continue to, I think for them, the benefit is to continue to keep the grass playing as close to grass as possible for as long as possible. Right? So does that mean slow up the game up? I don't, I don't think slowing it up is going to make much of a difference. Like we're talking about center versus the rest of them. It's like a little bit slower. Just gives him a little more time to, to crouch just a little bit more and hit that point just a little bit harder. So, um, but I do push back on the idea that he'll win two more in a row.

Patrick Parr (26:32.124)
Hmm.

Alvin Owusu (26:51.219)
Like I do feel like Carlos does insert the MJ meme. He does take this personally. He's not just going to let Yannick Center continue to win Wimbledon. He will at some point might have something to say about it.

Patrick Parr (26:51.729)
Hmm.

Patrick Parr (26:57.958)
Yeah, yeah.

Patrick Parr (27:03.101)
I I alright, alright. I'm w I'll I'll push back on that. I I would I would bet some something. I I feel pretty confident about center winning Wimbledon two more times. It back to back possibly too. And I see Alcaraz

staying in the French world, winning that tournament whenever he feels like whenever he's healthy. But that's yeah, anyway, tha that type of let's remember that. And if I'm right, then I don't know, I'll give myself a pat on the back. We'll we'll

Alvin Owusu (27:39.783)
Yeah. I mean, the internet never forgets someone will clip it they'll bring it back. We'll, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll have to work that hard. They have to work that hard. on the, along the lines of, know, that one will then final the men's final, Alexander's Verov, you've been very vocal, I'm sure in your private life and in this public life here on this, on this podcast, about how you feel about Alex and his tennis and, and his prospects. You know, we, we first,

Patrick Parr (27:43.329)
Hmm.

Alvin Owusu (28:09.096)
dug into the, our, I think it was right after the Australian Open maybe, you said that you feel like Zerub was gonna win the French Open. And by hook or by crook, you did win the French Open, right? Okay, fair.

Patrick Parr (28:22.108)
Hm.

Alvin Owusu (28:26.386)
Alexander's very didn't just win the French Open he then came and finaled Wimbledon right that is that is no small feat and I don't care who he played or beat along the way in either one of those He went from he went from winning on clay To his very transitioning and getting himself to the last round taking a set off of the world number one in the final We've seen other players Do well on grass falter on I mean do well on clay falter on grass or do poorly on grass and do well on clay

Patrick Parr (28:33.373)
Right.

Patrick Parr (28:42.546)
Hm.

Patrick Parr (28:54.534)
Mm.

Alvin Owusu (28:55.422)
We've seen champions win the French Open and then lose the first round of one balloon. So, it, it, doesn't always happen this way, but

I he's gained a lot from winning that tournament. I think we come out of this European swing coming into the US Hardcore season and we're getting a slightly different version of Alexander Zverev. I don't want to go as far as saying is what that means, like what that could mean for the US Hardcore swing, but where do you stand on Alexander Zverev and maybe not just the rest of this year, but like, where do you, from a trajectory standpoint, where do you feel like we are in his career at this point?


Patrick Parr (33:12.155)
All right. Yeah. So how do I feel about Zverev right now is he doesn't give a shit. He really, really doesn't care anymore. And he's playing so free now. And then that first set with center, I think a couple of broadcasters on the air said his forehand was at least 10 miles per hour faster than usual or something like that. And the way he was hitting through

his shots in that first set was so refreshing. And you just kept thinking, yeah, this was what we were hoping he would do for like the last eight years, right? But I guess it just took this sort of, he's had this albatross on him for so long, but he's now at a point where I think he's just playing with house money. And in that way, he can do whatever he wants.

I mean, he's going to the Hall of Fame now. He's, but at the same time, I think, I don't know if the hard court will be as rewarding for him as this was. I think this was Pete Zverev. I'm not saying he's going to fade away or anything, but it's hard court is an equalizer. And whereas with grass, I think Zverev is far more comfortable on grass than we give him credit for.

So, and now he's shown that, but it's very in general. I don't mind his success at all. I hope others don't, but I think at the same time he's just, he's enjoying this peak moment, but it was a peak. I think we're, he's not gonna win multiple Grand Slams. I don't think so.

Alvin Owusu (35:03.07)
You don't think so?

mean, what has he proven? He's proven that if not both of them, right, then it can be him. Like if he can avoid either one of them, he can get to the final. And if he can get to the final, then you have as good a chance of winning as anyone else.

Alvin Owusu (37:31.642)
I don't think he won't win multiple Grand Slams. I feel like he's got another one in him only because of proof of concept. If he doesn't have to go through one of them, then he can get himself to the final. This year's, think, we can only deal with what we've had. There's no point in making comparisons about what's happened last year or years prior. We're in the present. In the most recent calendar year, he didn't, he...

Got to the semi finals lost to Alcarazza. I'll show you it open. Right? Okay. Fine. In five sets. No, like no less. Okay. French open. He didn't have to play either one of them. Got to the final, won the thing. Right? Okay. Well, well then he only had to play one, but he played him in the final and he was up a set. He was up a set, right? Which is a big deal. Consider he hadn't taken a set off the guy in the last, I don't know, nine matches or something. Like it's, I, what I'm seeing is

Patrick Parr (38:03.123)
True.

Patrick Parr (38:06.985)
Very true.

Patrick Parr (38:21.832)
True.

Patrick Parr (38:27.241)
Hmm.

Alvin Owusu (38:30.781)
Trajectory in the right direction and I think we forget like we we think about Alexander's Vera the tennis player as this Like this other guy, right? The other guy but he has been the other guy in a few different generations here like he would he when he hit the scene like the big three were we're still the big three and he was He had wins against all of them, right? And then as they faced out and you had the the sets of passes of the world

Patrick Parr (38:55.017)
Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (39:00.841)
And even the medvedevs of the world like he beat and pushed them as well He's he has been a top five and then now with the with the new two He's he's right there and I think in a I don't know if it was you or if I was talking to Tory about this and a previous podcast and we're like You know if someone were to come along and challenge the the top two like what would that player look like and it's like well He's probably got to be really really tall with a really big serve and it has the ability to overpower them. It's like, okay, well

Alexey Andezvarov is some of those things. Like, he's some of those things and he knows how to go deep in majors. So, I say, he's always gonna give himself a chance, cause he's gonna show up towards the lighter end of grand slams, consistently show up in the back end of grand slams. So like, the math says if he plays 12 more, he might win another one.

Patrick Parr (39:33.383)
Right.

Patrick Parr (39:39.273)
Hmm.

True.

Patrick Parr (39:48.839)
Well I I yeah.

Patrick Parr (39:54.203)
I think it's all about mentality and hunger at this point for him though. I it's you you mentioned the word overpower. Can Zverev overpower center ever? No, I don't think so. Not not for right? I mean I I I I think with Alcaraz, Zverev can take him side to side and wear him down like he like he was doing at the Aussie. But

Alvin Owusu (40:09.757)
Sure, yeah, no, he can't, but...

Patrick Parr (40:22.153)
For Zverev, it's it is about hunger at this point. I mean, how much does he want? How much does it and h how much does he want to prove people wrong? I mean, it how hungry is he to get a second one? Because I don't know if like the when I saw the out of Wimbledon, I saw momentum. I saw somebody who was just riding high and not a care in the world. I think we

The song in my head was a fifty nine Street Bridge song with with Zverev. He was very it's like it's just yeah, okay, let's have this other match. All right, yeah, why not? I'm gonna do that. I'm gonna do that today. 'Cause I can. And but at that point, I mean that's momentum. I I think about NBA a little bit and I think about champions like Oklahoma City. They win the NBA championship and then the next season it's like they're invincible for like the first forty games of the season.

And that tends to be that tends to happen quite a bit. The Celtics long time ago, the Warriors, all of them, they they they win it they win a championship. The next season it's just God, it just feels good. It just feels good to go through it with this soaring confidence. And I think Wimbledon being so close to the French Open and Zverev still in that routine, that that fit perfectly. There was a synchronistic vibe for Zverev that yeah, I

I have n I have nothing to lose, everything to gain with this, and his interviews showed that. But when it comes to the US Open hopping over continents, over oceans and there's gonna be a change. I I think for Zverev his next best chance would be the Australian Open in the next season. I think that might be

where he can play Alcaraz, get a little bit of revenge and maybe prove people wrong there. And but US Open I I I just I d I don't know. maybe he'll be all right, but mm I don't yeah.

Alvin Owusu (42:33.533)
look at the, I look at the, okay. It's not really just about him in a vacuum, right? It's not really about him and Sinner either or Alcares for that matter. It's about everyone else. And I think what he has shown is he's probably, he's still behind Sinner and Alcares. Maybe he has closed the gap and that is meaningful, but the gap between him and everyone else also,

Patrick Parr (43:00.37)
It is.

Alvin Owusu (43:03.129)
is starting to like also exists. That is also growing as well because I don't think that they have meaningfully raised their level, the field, if you will. The players right behind him, know, Felix, Demonor, Sinner, let's take Novak out, Medvedev. Like, are you saying that they are the ones that are gonna yank his cape right now? Like, I mean, maybe Felix, maybe. Like, Felix didn't do anything wrong.

And losing to and losing to Novak, right? And he played great tennis leading up to that. Okay, fine. Maybe we'll see. We'll see. I just tend to not trust Felix all that much. but it's, think it's the, it's the rest of them that bothered me. Like the rest of them, I really think it's going to take the, like, if you're playing the game at home, it's the, it's the Hodars and the Fonsecas that are going to have to come in and, and usurp that entire group and start to, you know, chip at him. But he's.

Patrick Parr (43:37.673)
Mm.

Patrick Parr (43:42.405)
Yeah.

Patrick Parr (43:54.237)
Yes, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (44:01.096)
He's played both of them extremely efficiently. And I, I just, it's kind of this melancholy I have for the men's tour right now outside of the tip top. Like the rest of them are obviously fantastic tennis players, right? Like I'll, I will sit on my butt and watch any of them play tennis any given day of the week, like from five to 150, 200. I don't care. Like these guys are so good. But when it, in terms of pushing for grand slams, none of them can have convinced me.

Patrick Parr (44:04.041)
Sure.

Patrick Parr (44:11.176)
Mm.

Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (44:31.142)
Like none of them have convinced me except for the ones who have done it, is those essentially those four in MevDev occasionally.

Patrick Parr (44:31.721)
Mm.

Patrick Parr (44:36.691)
True. Right. Well, I think Felix is closer than yeah to me he's clo really close. He's really close. And I think to winning one. I I I wouldn't I would not be surprised if Felix in the for the US Open if he's if he makes a really, really solid run. I know I know trust I I'm I'm with you on that. but

Alvin Owusu (44:48.712)
close to what?

Patrick Parr (45:03.934)
What I saw with him and Djokovic, I just saw I think Felix respects Djokovic too much. It's a it's a problem with the rest of the tour. You have to have a level of this is coming out wrong, but I'll get I'll get hit for it, but it's okay. But you have to have a level of disrespect when you're playing Djokovic if you want to have any chance. You you have to feel like you there's a superior quality to your tennis.

that beats this man who you do not need to think about his story. Right? You d you do not need to think that he has twenty four grand slams. You need to think that he's a thirty nine year old man hanging on to whatever he can possibly have, as for as long as possible. And Felix, it just it's I

Get I don't know if that's in his head or not, but if even if it's slightly there, that I'm wow, I am going head to head with Djokovic for all these hours. It's just just get it out. Get it out of there. Yeah, I mean he he is probably one of the most athletically gifted players on the tour right now. I though I've seen him up close, I've watched him a c at the Japan Open here. Just I've I've been right there and

Alvin Owusu (46:14.332)
Yeah, yep.

Patrick Parr (46:17.341)
God he it's he can hit a ball harder than I've ever seen live at times. So Alcaraz of course when I watched him there was a difference in it but God he's got Felix is so talented and I think all all it is is for him to say to get that chip on his shoulder and and just go go at it and don't care about the look that you're given to the rest of the crowd. So I I that's just

That's my Felix ran a bit, but yeah.

Alvin Owusu (46:47.656)
But the things that people appreciate about Felix so much is like, Felix is like the perfect son-in-law, right? But that also comes with the other side of it is like the chip isn't there. I think that it's not that, I don't think it can because that's not who he is as a person. And the tennis, it's not about the tennis. And I think you could say the same thing with Zverev. With Felix, it didn't.

Patrick Parr (46:54.493)
Yeah, yeah.

Patrick Parr (47:00.649)
But it can be Yeah.

Patrick Parr (47:06.473)
Mm, mmm.

Alvin Owusu (47:16.872)
The difference between him and Novak did not show up until that tiebreaker in the fifth set, and then it showed up. Felix could not, I'm not gonna say he got tight, but he lost a little bit of belief. And Novak never, his belief in himself never wavered, and he also believed that Felix would break. And that's what happened. And it's enough to say Felix didn't do anything wrong from a tennis standpoint that match. Like he played a fantastic.

Patrick Parr (47:23.401)
Yeah.

Patrick Parr (47:30.547)
Mm.

Patrick Parr (47:45.255)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (47:46.333)
coming out of that match, you're happy about where Felix's tennis is. But as far as like, do I trust Felix going deep into the, you know, semi-finals, finals of a Grand Slam, and when chips are down and he's facing Novak or Zverev or, or Center or Alcares across the other side of the net, and it's, it's, it's, it's go time. They won't, they're not gonna blink. Zverev might. But he might not against Felix, but the other two won't, and.

Patrick Parr (48:00.169)
Mm.

Patrick Parr (48:10.471)
True. Right.

Alvin Owusu (48:14.088)
That's what it that's where I'm like, that's where I don't trust him He's got to earn that trust from me. And I think is very I'll just get the quick very thing is very needed to stay in this like focus bubble in that in that match in the third set in the final and he came out of it when he got broken it like it popped and he just like kind of lost it as if the idea of

Patrick Parr (48:20.233)
See

Patrick Parr (48:29.577)
Mm.

Alvin Owusu (48:42.408)
breaking back was just like not something he could actually fathom for a fair, for good reason. He's not done it in quite some time, but every single time you gotta believe, you gotta stay in the moment. And Zverev got him, he let himself go out of the moment. And then it just kind of fell apart. But what were you gonna say?

Patrick Parr (48:54.163)
Right.

Patrick Parr (49:00.094)
Yeah, well I'll go to I need one more thing about Felix and then we'll go back to V Zverev. But I think with Felix though, that tiebreaker, it's more about self awareness. It it's about being I I when I what I saw when I was watching that tiebreak was Felix is noticing that he's in this dramatic epic tiebreak with one of the greatest players in the history of the game. And if he thinks that just even just just a little bit, it it just slips into the mind.

All of his shots that he chooses for that tiebreaker completely change. They get they become more conservative. You're not bringing Djokovic out wide enough anymore. You're just letting him do what he wants. And like you're saying, yeah, trust happens, but self-aware it's being it's being too self-aware about the moment that you're in. And I think Felix has a problem with just constructing a world within the world he's in. You get what I'm saying?

Alvin Owusu (49:59.43)
I do. No, I do. I definitely do.

Patrick Parr (49:59.881)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. 'Cause think about that conversation that th there's a there's a thing on YouTube. There's a thing on YouTube. There's a thing there's a video on YouTube where Djokovic is arguing with the w I think with they were gonna close the roof way too early, right, with the f with the Felix match. And you see Djokovic just saying, you have rules. You have rules but you're you know

But you're not gonna you're just gonna change or something, then what's the point of having the rules? And the way Djokovic was just casually having this conversation with in in a very tight dramatic match, whereas Felix is like, well, if you know, you agree, you know, like the way Djokovic had he's he's in a world in a world in a world. Like a little inceptionist type thing. Like the crowd, whatever. They're they're they're puppets. Where but

With Felix, he's just he's right there. He's so sincere, he's so honest. And you feel Felix, you know, go in go into your world and don't care about whatever Djokovic is rambling about. Like what what I saw there was Felix looking at Djokovic, thinking about the moment and just being completely out of his own strategy. Whereas if this were like a Nadal, Nadal is just

You know, I I'm I'm gonna be right here. I'm I'm gonna be Nadal and and I'm gonna have this world for me. And you can do whatever you want, but I'm gonna make sure this can of tennis balls is in the exact perfect location. You know, stuff like that. So I think with Felix he's gotta do that. He's gotta drill down and just be in his own world completely. And he's not doing that. That that's what I'm saying with it's not about shot

Choices, it's more about mentality at this point for Felix, 'cause he knows exactly what he needs to do. So that that's Felix. Yeah. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (52:01.873)
Well, it's a, it's a no, but Felix though, like we'll finish up that with that one. It his match against, Alejandro Davidovic, Makina Felix did mention that there was this, that there was one epic point in the match and Felix was in the press conference afterwards talking about that point and kind of like walking us through it, like what he was thinking. And he was like, at some point in that point, I realized that this point was amazing. And, and I was just like, really, I was just having a really good time being a part of it.

Patrick Parr (52:27.891)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (52:32.007)
And then at the end he duffs an easy shot, like at the end of the point. it's like, the point is to win the point, Felix. The point is to win the point. He mentioned because he smiled during the point because he was realizing, he's like, I don't know what that metaphor is of like when, in your dreams, you you sit up in the top of your room and you watch yourself sleep, it's like, he needs to stop watching himself. He needs to stay in there, stay in there. But he did say he's changing coaches. Like he has left his.

Patrick Parr (52:32.177)
Mm.

Patrick Parr (52:39.987)
That's right.

Patrick Parr (52:50.974)
Mm.

Yeah. Yes, yes. That well, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (53:01.543)
He has let his coaching, his career long coaching team go. He's starting anew. We'll see what he brings on. He realizes that there needs to be a change. So we'll see. As Yannick said, I would say, we'll see what's coming. see. We'll see what's coming.

Patrick Parr (53:01.926)
Okay.

Patrick Parr (53:16.805)
yeah, we'll see. but we we were we had one more thing on Zverev that what was that? shoot. I can't remember.

Alvin Owusu (53:25.443)
it's fine. I want to talk to you about, when I, I feel like the tennis that I watch in the tennis world that I live in is somewhat of a weird one, because I'm very much in it. So, I don't know what kind of cuts through. And I remember last year on the Wimbledon women's final, I remember. Obviously the final was, it was a bit of a route.

Patrick Parr (53:25.971)
But yeah, anyway. Yeah, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (53:53.96)
But we had an American woman in the final. and there's a lot about a man in it's a moment that you would think would translate well from a commercial standpoint. Like you get this blonde haired pretty girl who is playing on, you know, Wimbledon, uh, Wimbledon vinyl on Saturday. And Wimbledon is like in the heart of the summer here in the United States, like all things were, were lining up for this to be a moment. And she did not meet the moment, but

Patrick Parr (54:06.12)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (54:21.947)
her post-match press conference, or her post-match speech was extremely endearing. And I think even in defeat, was, I thought she was winning fans at that moment. That final drew an average of 1.3 million concurrent viewers, right? And I thought, okay, we have this American woman, and this is the United States, right? On ESPN. We have American woman, and then she's playing against, you know, one of the.

Patrick Parr (54:40.585)
Mm.

Patrick Parr (54:44.435)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (54:50.119)
best players of her generation in Ecosuic Tech, right? 1.3 million average viewers at any given time. This final that just happened drew 1.9 million concurrent viewers. Now you can look at this in a lot of different ways. Like these numbers are, they're funky, right? In that tennis is, you could say tennis is growing and therefore this women's final between two Czech women who are not.

Patrick Parr (55:10.323)
They are.

Alvin Owusu (55:17.895)
Top-seeded players are players that they're not household names performed better than Than last year's final it was the highest performing match of the women's tournament apparently just nipping out a Serena's match of 1.8 million Which is kind of odd because we had some really awesome women's during this tournament like Pagula versus golf like you've got your us one versus us two

Patrick Parr (55:27.475)
Mm.

Patrick Parr (55:40.905)
True.

Alvin Owusu (55:48.184)
semi-finals, quarterfinal clash. was a great match. Granted it's during the middle of the day, but I don't know. I just, have a tough time understanding what people care about. Like what cuts through. Do you experience the same thing in your part of the world?

Patrick Parr (55:55.729)
Mm.

Patrick Parr (56:01.79)
Mm.

Patrick Parr (56:08.665)
absolutely. Yeah. And I think that ratings number reflects pr potentially the disappointment in not having either golf or Osaka here especially Osaka. I mean the fact that my father in law taped Naomi Osaka matches for me.

Alvin Owusu (56:30.543)
wow.

Patrick Parr (56:30.803)
think yeah, a and I didn't know that and I was just okay, thanks. Wow. okay, I I will watch this match now. But it's I it's there's something about I think disappointment and the memory of the beatdown of last year's women's final that may have changed the changed the ratings and so

Also, God, I mean how is ESPN calculating this at this point? I mean, are are we not all watching this in a very different way? I I don't know. But I it's a Czech Republic also as well. I mean, we're we're I mean there's some great Czech players, of course, right? I mean th this is something where we have to acknowledge that that base might be much bigger than we think. but for i here in Japan,

And and and Izumova, she's she's she's not talked about yet, at all, I would say. I would I would say only Osaka, only only players here in Japan who are have made a dent. But w I think tennis tennis remains a regional interest, right? I think there there are people who they have their player and if that player doesn't make it, then they don't watch.

Alvin Owusu (57:55.463)
Yeah, yeah, I think that might be it. That might be it. I want like tennis, it's interesting. Like I find, you know, maybe not the silver lining, but like there's a reason to watch almost everyone. But people have their favorites for a lot of different reasons. And I can appreciate that people don't sit kind of in the middle of this in the way that I might at times.

Patrick Parr (57:57.063)
I maybe it's just as simple as that. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (58:25.67)
It's just yeah, it's very I can't get a grasp on what on why Certain people are attracted to certain players and why others aren't attractive like I think that the women's game right now is in a fantastic place because of Because of the variety because of the amount of people who can contend But I also gonna come with my my own media background like I also know that that's extremely hard to sell because you would in order for

Patrick Parr (58:45.673)
True.

Alvin Owusu (58:55.782)
the women's semi-final and final to really pop on like US Open, end of US Open weekend, we need the US audience to be used to seeing those particular players over the course of the year on the big weekends at the end of Grand Slams. And that's outside of Coco and Arena, and Arena's a little divisive. That doesn't happen.

Patrick Parr (59:10.27)
Right.

Patrick Parr (59:19.347)
Big t well that's also what makes her so watchable, right? I mean, I think she's almost a hate watch sometimes for a lot of people. I think people are like, great, Sabalanka's playing again, all right and then it's like, Yeah, now I can complain about her screaming and things like that and then and then I can I think so. I I think there are a lot of people who watch Sabalenka out of pure curiosity. I mean, you should hear her after every shot or something like that. You know, they there is a

Alvin Owusu (59:35.566)
Is that what it is?

Patrick Parr (59:48.807)
madness to watching Sabalenka against another player who is maybe very I don't know diminutive, someone who is silent when they hit a like Mukova, for example, is very classy. She has a sophisticated game, I feel, when her shots have this and and and her her whole demeanor has maturity that I think is very commendable. So but with Sabalenka you I think watching her

If you told me, okay, Patrick, you gotta watch Sabalanka for seven days or Mukava for seven days, of course I'm choosing Sabalenka. Right? I'm choosing Sabolanka, yeah, yeah. I know I yeah.

Alvin Owusu (01:00:27.213)
Wait, wait, of course you're choosing Sableyca, is that what you said?

If to watch one of the that's it. Okay, wait, hold on. Hold on. I just thought you were going to say Mukava. So I kind of blanked when you said the answer, but you said if, I had to choose, if, okay, if you were forced to watch one of those two players for seven straight days in some kind of like torture chamber of would choose Sabalinka over Mukava.

Patrick Parr (01:00:37.179)
No. No, no.

Patrick Parr (01:00:52.424)
Yep, I would. I would. I would because it's because Sabalenka has she gives whether she wants to or not, she gives the crowd so much more of herself in her performance. I what I said earlier about Sabolanka probably came off as like, wow, you like it's a little disrespectful. But at the same time I I respect the fact that she throws everything

Alvin Owusu (01:00:53.306)
Huh, interesting.

Alvin Owusu (01:01:06.406)
Hmm

Patrick Parr (01:01:21.243)
out there including including her personality. I mean it's it's very she's a very I don't know, she's a very generous person, I think, actually. It's it's a weird thing to say. I I know I'm getting very psychological here, but I I see her as in matches and she she's just so stream of consciousness when she's giving answers at this point. Whereas there are other players on tour who they're they're almost like concrete. They're almost th they they just don't know how to

How to deliver what it is that's in their in their head. And Sabalenka's really good at that. And she's fascinating. So you can see her mood swings a little bit almost like Saffin, a little bit in a way. so in that I I think watching Sabalenka, you you can see more of the ebbs and flows of somebody who's either struggling or on fire. Whereas with Mukova, she you she's she's closer in the in the mindset of Federer.

Alvin Owusu (01:02:04.87)
Okay, okay.

Patrick Parr (01:02:21.309)
Right? Somebody who's not gonna show. but with Federer it was almost that that was his pride. He he was you were never gonna crack Federer's veneer, right? So

Alvin Owusu (01:02:33.19)
Well, but you could come to a pre you came to appreciate it because obviously he's, mean, comp is a little different, but because Federer was always vying for championships, he became part of the ubiquitous with the tennis championship experience. Like I think for Mukova to be appreciated in the same way, we need to not just see her in the French open, I mean, one will in final, but we need to see her in the U S open semi-final again. Like we need to see her kind of stack some performances so that the.

Patrick Parr (01:02:59.721)
True.

Alvin Owusu (01:03:01.956)
I'm speaking just about the U S audience here. The U S audience can become not just aware, but comfortable and looking forward to seeing her the next time. And I think that's where the, you know, the, the personality part about Sabalika that that's a really, cause yeah, don't, for personalities, like, I I don't care. I'm just watching tennis, right. But, I think that probably matters more than I give it credit for, because yeah, people drive sports, right? It's not just about the sport. It's about the people like.

Patrick Parr (01:03:13.918)
Hm.

Patrick Parr (01:03:25.44)
Hmm.

Alvin Owusu (01:03:32.122)
That's how you get fans. And cause I always, I often wonder about like why it is, why, why do people not jump on the Jessica Pagula bandwagon as much as I think they should. And it's like probably for the same reason that, that people like Sabalenka or are drawn to her for.

Patrick Parr (01:03:43.793)
Mm-hmm.

Patrick Parr (01:03:51.813)
I'll I'll Pagula Pagula has an interesting spot in the sport right now. I I feel she has I'll get hit for this too, but I think you know she she comes from a wealthy family. People remember that stuff. She has a very very big leadership role on the tour. People don't see that. She

Drinks a beer when she loses. I like that. You know, s like or or when she wins, I think, right? I mean she she's bringing that out. I I like those things. But overall Pagula doesn't doesn't show to me she doesn't show what how she's grinding. I I don't know if she c if she wants to. I I think she wants to

Alvin Owusu (01:04:42.8)
just feel like she shouldn't have to. Like, why can't we just celebrate the tennis? that's... Yeah.

Patrick Parr (01:04:45.448)
Well yeah. I mean but that's that's I I I'm with you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're right, you're right. You're right. You I'm I'm I'm I'm saying this as if it can be changed. It's just her personality. But with s with Sabalanka, she's not trying to show her her self sacrifice, right? On every that that is just who she is. so with Pagula too, I I I when when you have personalities that are insular

Alvin Owusu (01:05:04.314)
Right.

Patrick Parr (01:05:13.757)
You're gonna remain insular. You're gonna remain somebody who doesn't get that sort of fan base. That Sabalanka has a love-hate fan base. I think there are seventy percent of people who love that she's just showing everything, and then there's thirty percent who still love her, but they love kinda to hate her.

Alvin Owusu (01:05:32.614)
Yeah

Patrick Parr (01:05:33.819)
No, but with pogo with Pagula there is one way to like Pagula. So and I think that's the same with Zverev too. I mean every time we talk about Zverev we're gonna probably have people who are you know, they they say right, no

Alvin Owusu (01:05:47.366)
It's a pretty clean cut. It's like either you're willing to appreciate Alexander Zverev, the tennis player, or you can't tolerate him, the off court human stuff, which is, it exists. I just, in this space, choose to focus on the tennis, always. Yeah, that's interesting. There's this, and this this kind of like, not just in Wimbledon, but in tennis right now.

Patrick Parr (01:05:50.483)
Yeah.

Patrick Parr (01:05:57.074)
Exact right.

Patrick Parr (01:06:03.877)
Exactly, right. Yeah. So yeah. Mm.

Alvin Owusu (01:06:16.973)
The tennis is so good, yet the things that are good for tennis aren't necessarily good for tennis as a media product all the time. And that is, that's the, that's the tricky part. Like it's, there are like literally four, maybe five players, maybe six if you're stretching it, that matter in professional tennis. And that's across men's and women's.

Patrick Parr (01:06:24.498)
Hmm, mm.

Patrick Parr (01:06:37.417)
True. Well, it's I think we also have to look at center

As somebody who is incredibly boring during an interview. He is a boring interview. Sorry, it's just it's true. He he's somebody who will not really go outside of his central foc focal point. he has stock answers that he uses every single interview and

There's gonna be a point where I well there is a point. It's it's here where I mean cuz God, he's got five grand slams. Yeah, to me he's Bjorn Bork. He's somebody who will be remembered in the way that how icy he is. Somebody who comes off as g God, Yannick, I mean like what do you what do you really think of? And

I d I don't I don't see I'm not trying to say that he needs to be more forthcoming but it 'cause he's not. I mean that's that's that's who he is. But that's why we love Alcaraz so much. I think Alcaraz shows, right? He shows it.

Alvin Owusu (01:07:44.454)
It's interesting, because I am an Alcara's fan, but I am very acutely aware that Yannick Center, his fan base is extremely passionate and it's extremely wide. I think there's also this, haven't gone through a legit downtime for Yannick Center since he's been in our front of mind conscious over the last two and a half years. Center was a top 15 to 20 player and then

Patrick Parr (01:07:48.23)
Me too.

Patrick Parr (01:08:04.937)
True.

Alvin Owusu (01:08:13.701)
he became this guy. Like fairly quickly at the end of 24 and then into 25 and since the beginning of 25, sorry, beginning of 24, he's been kind of this guy, right? But outside of the, I mean there was the 90 day suspension, right? That thing did happen. But.

Patrick Parr (01:08:15.817)
Mm.

Patrick Parr (01:08:31.527)
Right. And and th and that so motivated him to win all those tournaments that he missed the year after. So, you know.

Alvin Owusu (01:08:36.273)
Sure, yeah, but as far as he hasn't gotten hurt, he hasn't gone through a funk, right? He went almost 12 months without winning a Grand Slam, but as a caveat, he did win every Masters 1000 event. it's like we haven't really seen, he hasn't really been in a position to need to be deep and introspective. Things are good, he can talk about the tennis, it's just about the tennis.

Patrick Parr (01:09:04.872)
Right.

Alvin Owusu (01:09:05.017)
the supermodel that he was dating or like whatever, like things are good for him right now. I think if we're gonna, if we're gonna, I mean we have seen instances in which like after the US opened, like Carlos cleaned his clock and in the press conference he was like, I have to get better, like I have to add more variety, my servanities get better, like he was very, but it wasn't like a existential crisis, it was just like he felt the tennis needed to be talked about, the tennis needed to be addressed, he addressed the tennis and then.

Patrick Parr (01:09:10.474)
True.

Patrick Parr (01:09:18.387)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (01:09:34.53)
And then he carried on.

Patrick Parr (01:09:36.969)
There there's gonna be a moment in Sinners' career where where we really finally see him. You know, we s we see him warts and all. with with Alcaraz, you know, when he beats Verev in the Australian Open, my God, we I mean, how messy was that match, right? The cramps, the i the injuries, just the the emotional up and down and then and then when Djokovic wins the gold medal in Paris, well Alcaraz is crying into his towel, right? He's sobbing.

Alvin Owusu (01:09:54.766)
Yeah.

Patrick Parr (01:10:06.621)
And you're just seeing how much this really means to him. Like that all of that i I'm not saying I need to see sinner cry, but I would like to see sinner be pushed to such a limit.

that instead of cramping and then just struggling and then going fading away in a match or something, just I I need I need that five and a half hour marathon and like maybe like the French Open that occurred with Alcaraz, but that's why when I remember after that big historic match, I said, why did Sitter wink at Alcaraz? Like when they went and

Alvin Owusu (01:10:41.251)
You wanted him. You wanted him to cry. You wanted you wanted him to to like break down and like show how much it. Yeah, you wanted more out of him. I that was he seemed like he did seem kind of OK about it.

Patrick Parr (01:10:50.287)
yeah. Yeah.

He was like, Wow, hey, yeah, that was hey, you know. How about that? How about how about that match that we're gonna remember forever, you know? And I I don't know. With maybe center will never have that moment. May I think he'll there will be one of them. It's probably gonna be without Graz, but it could just Yeah, it with him I'd love to see more, more of him. Yeah, but

Alvin Owusu (01:10:57.413)
How about that?

Alvin Owusu (01:11:19.173)
I'm okay with sinner as is. am. And I've heard enough from people who spend time around him at tournaments that he's just a good dude and he's a very polite guy. like, that's, it's the halo effect, right? We see something about somebody who does one thing great and we want everything else about him to be great. I just, tennis, I mean, you we grew up playing tennis. Like usually it was just a bunch of nerds playing tennis, right?

Patrick Parr (01:11:23.496)
Okay.

Patrick Parr (01:11:31.079)
Yeah. Seems like a good dude. Yeah. Right.

Alvin Owusu (01:11:49.254)
a bunch of awkward kids, into awkward adults who just happen to swing a racket really well and that's, it doesn't mean that they're cool. Like, I often think about, okay, you remember our time at our very small school with, you remember the theater arts kids and they would always be like climbing trees and singing in the quad and doing things and then like, and then I remember going through the experience, that was my first time around people who were deep into the theater arts. And then I think about like,

Patrick Parr (01:11:58.802)
Yeah.

Patrick Parr (01:12:04.189)
Yeah. Sure. yeah. Yeah.

Patrick Parr (01:12:16.829)
Mm.

Alvin Owusu (01:12:18.531)
the people you see on TV, the actors who are famous and they have, and people throw all these things at them. Like they're so, you know, handsome or attractive and well put together and yada, yada, yada. And it's like, they were kids, they're just theater kids grown up. Like, quirks and all, they're just in a different, you're just looking at them in a different way, but they're still the same people. So when you hear stories about them doing weird stuff, it's like.

Patrick Parr (01:12:28.071)
True.

Hmm.

Patrick Parr (01:12:36.367)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (01:12:45.669)
It's fine, it's fine. So I say that about Yannick Center. I care less about the human interest. I just want him to stay healthy, keep playing good tennis, and I think he's going through enough. We would benefit from a slightly deeper men's field, think, to really push him into an uncomfortable place, if you will.

Patrick Parr (01:12:54.939)
I hear ya. Yeah.

Patrick Parr (01:13:01.159)
True, yeah.

Patrick Parr (01:13:08.113)
I th I think an ep an epitaph on this is

that I need to remind listeners one of my favorite players is Murat Safin. I think I think we need we need to remember that I I I'm into the guy or the or or or the female athlete who disrupts, who who cr who shows in the way the madness that's in their mind at that time, which of course every player does have, but some people just release that in a way that's controlled, like Savalenka, like

Alvin Owusu (01:13:15.321)
Yeah, okay, I think that, I think that, that says a lot.

Patrick Parr (01:13:40.943)
and you know other other people like Medvedev, you know, I I think they they have this quality that is just so engaging to me. but I I I understand what you're saying with center. Yeah, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (01:13:52.666)
We've all got our types. We've all got our types. I think that's probably the best place to put a pin in it, I think, right there. Pat, thanks for joining us. I'm Alvin. That is Patrick. That's the three. We are out.

Patrick Parr (01:14:01.097)
Okay.