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The Public Nuisance Podcast
Host Sean McComb interviews various guests
The Public Nuisance Podcast
The Public Nuisance Podcast #041 “Sleep Like a Log” with Emmett Lynch
Welcome to a new episode of The Public Nuisance Podcast with me, Sean McComb.
This week we welcome Sleep Coach, Emmett Lynch to the podcast.
We cover How Emmett got into Sleep Coaching, Sean’s Sleeping Routine, Sleeping for Boxers, Sleeping Pills and much more.
New episodes every Tuesday.
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Sean McComb
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The Public Nuisance. Sean McCann, also, that praise guy doing millions of pounds in praises every month. Go to their socials. Check out the link, see what praises are at stake and get yourself involved in the draw with us. Today we have our sleep coach, amit Lynch. Yep, made the journey from the midi diary. Yep, thank you. Cheers for coming down, mate, appreciate no worries how's things?
Speaker 2:we're all good. Thanks for having me on the show. It's way different you know when you go from watching your podcast to now being on it, yeah, so thanks for giving me the opportunity to come on and talk. No, not at all.
Speaker 1:Not at all, it's a very unique topic for me, obviously, and I think, probably for most of Belfast and anyone who does listen I'd say the majority of my listeners would be from belfast, but like a sleep coach probably going like what the fuck a sleep coach? How do you coach someone to sleep? Yeah, tell me what is a sleep coach.
Speaker 2:I look it's a good question, um, and there is a lot of science behind it. Okay, so the mental health foundation in northern ireland, the uk, would say one in three people in northern ireland are struggling with sleep. Yeah, now, that can be for a number of different types of reasons, but I always kind of start off and explain to people what a sleep coach isn't right. So I don't read your bedtime story, all right, and I don't.
Speaker 1:I don't talk to you once upon a time.
Speaker 2:I don't that and I don't kind of snuggle on behind you to nurse you to go to sleep, right. So that's kind of not what we do, and we're not selling snake oil either. It's a scientific methodology. They try to help people and it's backed by evidence, kind of methods and how to get someone to kind of sleep. So it can be literally, um, just an average person just like me, uh, coming through the door, who's maybe knows themselves that they're just not getting enough sleep because when they're in work and they're online meetings they're knackered or they're tired. So, come, can't sleep louder, you on, and or even when the alarm clock goes out morning, they would really wish that it didn't, and they'll just roll over and get a couple more sleep. So you've got that. But they also, too, you could have a CrossFit athlete coming in, a high rocks athlete coming in, an elite performer coming in like a county player or a boxer coming in, or you could get any range of issues coming in. Or you can maybe have someone coming in who may be experiencing periods of insomnia. So you can maybe have someone coming on who may be experiencing periods of insomnia. Yeah, so the category and the scope is as wide and as deep as you want to kind of make it. So people from all walks of life, and the thing that I always say about sleep is try easier, not harder, when it comes to sleep. So let's relax. So the whole idea is.
Speaker 2:So when someone comes into me, the first thing we do is we try to build up a wee chat and a wee relationship and figure out where has this sleep problem come from? Yeah, and then what we do? Then we do a wee sleep assessment with them. We figure out how long it's been happening and actually what is it. Is it the problem that you're finding it difficult to get to sleep? So as soon as your head hits the pillow, your brain decides it's beetlejuice time? Yeah, and it gets really, really busy. Or is it that you're waking up a lot during the night? And when you wake up during the night, you feel anxious. That, god almighty. And the first thing that everybody does when they wake up during the night they pick the phone and they look and they go right it's three o'clock, it's four o'clock, and then what they try to do now is try to calculate.
Speaker 2:Oh, I only have three hours to get up, so I'm most forcing myself now to get to sleep. And the thing about sleep, sean, is you cannot force yourself into sleep. It's a natural process that can happen in the body. But the cool thing about it is that you can create the circumstances to allow yourself to get into good sleep and I would kind of go on the community groups and deliver kind of workshops. I would go into workplaces, part of their kind of staff health and well-being days and their HR responsibilities and stuff like that about caring for your staff and making sure because if they're sleeping better they perform better and work when you were saying about lead performers and stuff, like absolutely it's a big part of performance in everyday life, isn't?
Speaker 1:it like sleep and I think more more recently, I've started to understand the people that are are very aware now of like their sleep, like being so beneficial to their everyday life massively like, and you know what.
Speaker 2:There's been. A lot of good work has happened in that space. Um, it has something that I have noticed in, like, I'm not a full-time sleep coach. I always have my full time role within the health service and then I work in as a sleep coach then, um, but what I have noticed over time? Yes, it's starting to now become a thing for a few.
Speaker 1:For years people used to use it as a bit of a joke oh, I don't sleep, I need to laugh and and I understand that you know what I mean, uh, I get, I can't sleep like a log folks again well then, you know what?
Speaker 2:you're.
Speaker 1:Very lucky I always think I'm too stupid so there's nothing going on up there. It's just too. It's just a big fucking monkey with two.
Speaker 2:No, it's usually a sign of that's actually a really helpful and good thing, so keep that going for as long as you can. My only thing is don't brag about it, Because people that don't sleep it's the worst thing that they hear in terms of kind of going there. He is sleeping like a log.
Speaker 1:My partner, my best mate, Marty. He's the worst sleeper. He always has the worst sleep ever.
Speaker 2:It differs.
Speaker 1:Fuck, I'm like I'd be bragging about it.
Speaker 2:He's close to me, I don't care.
Speaker 1:I'm like fuck, as soon as my head hits the pillow.
Speaker 2:I'm like and the thing is, is that that can be the case, right? And if it is, you keep whatever you're doing, fill your boots, keep going, and if we can bottle it up and sell it, we, we will. Hello, there are, uh an ever-growing uh members of our community, our society or whatever, that we're starting to see more and more, uh, that people are maybe struggling, uh, to either get the sleep or they're waking up a lot during the night or even after a night's sleep as such, they're still waking up and they're still up a lot during the night, or even after a night's sleep as such, they're still waking up and they're still tired the night before.
Speaker 2:Now, in terms of, we aren't at the stage where we can hit the sleep epidemic button. This is kind of cam-a-jets there, but I know in America, in the States, the Center for Disease Control did because they were noticing that there was a massive increase on people not performing on work, road traffic accidents, and they did a huge study with thousands and thousands of people and what they actually noticed is, as a nation in america, but even here as well, we used to be really good sleepers but, now we're starting to progress now, where we're not probably maybe, maybe appreciating or even understanding the benefits that come from a really good night's sleep.
Speaker 1:Phones have been a big part of it, probably in the last, let's say the last 10, 15 years. Maybe Phones would have to be a massive part of it. I think, a part of like going from being good sleepers to not being so good sleepers.
Speaker 2:That is probably one thing that I would see a lot of. You know it's nearly failed, as if the mobile phone is a connection to the hand.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know it's like we're all very, very guilty of it, but I would kind of see that as well. So there's a whole science kind of behind the rationale behind it. There can be a link there between obviously the blue light on your phone and it's upsetting the melatonin receptors and release of that going into your brain to allow you to go to sleep.
Speaker 2:But we've also found in recent studies as well, it's also your phones are attention grabbers. When you start off with a wee scroll before you look at the clock, 30 minutes is going. And what we're kind of seeing more and more and more is when people kind of look at their phone. What we could be doing as well is unaware is actually comparing ourselves to what we're seeing on screen. They're away on screen. Go there they're. They're away in holidays again. Yeah, the shape they're in. I'm not that shape over there. And then we get into now. We're never doing analysis in wonderland and we're way down the rabbit hole now and before we know it sleeps out the window. But the big thing, if we were to come right, right, right, the whole way back and I do with anybody that comes through the door is and this I don't want to kind of say, do this equals good sleep.
Speaker 2:But see, having the foundations of a positive bedtime routine it's crucial even, like I always kind of think, is we try to put it on the children when we have babies, try to get them in their good bedtime routine, because it settles them and they tend to kind of sleep half decent, ish, okay, yeah.
Speaker 2:But for some reason, when we go into adulthood, that theory, that practical way of doing things, gets thrown out the window and we look at sleep like it's just something that we do at the end of the evening. Yeah, rather than looking, sleep is actually helping to prepare me for tomorrow and that's really, really important. But if we go back to that, so the big thing we look at is your sleep routine. What are you doing in that golden hour before bed? Are you still scrolling your bed, literally in your bed before you're about to sleep? Because the reality is you're probably not going to sleep.
Speaker 2:What happens here, when we're scrolling on our phone flat out, is there's two parts of our central nervous system. You got the sympathetic part of your nervous system and the parasympathetic side of your nervous system. When we're scrolling on our phone and we're looking at all these people doing all these things and we know that social media is usually a pile of waffle and people are just portraying and projecting what they want the world to see we can kind of get trapped in that. So all of a sudden, we aren't actually settling on our brain, so we're actually still in fight or flight mode, and that can be very, very difficult to get you off to sleep yeah, my wife, she'd be one for like last night I'd tell her get the phone off, like because we thought we actually we literally before we're in the bed we're watching TV.
Speaker 1:And then we're in the bed and she lifts her phone out, she says I have two podcasts tomorrow. She's like here you go, she's a sleep coach. She was laughing. I'm like on sleep coach.
Speaker 1:You think, oh she was laughing one time and then, as soon as we says that we're joking laughing, she lifts her phone off my phone. And I looked over her shoulder and she's looking at like dresses and she says, now you're looking for a dress. And he says, like you can't find dress, so now you're going to be here looking for another two hours. It was late enough. Like to be fair about the bed last night, I said get the phone off, just get her off the phone for me.
Speaker 2:I would be a big believer in that personally, and I have to kind of practice what I preach in that space as well. Now I'm really mindful that I don't come across like an old Irish school teacher as well so on. You know, what I mean is that there are going to be days in the week where it's oh no, you are going to be say if a message comes in from a family member or you have work commitments or something out there.
Speaker 2:Well then, I know it's not that. Um, it's about having a consistent, not strict, you know. So I, like the, my whole theory around sleep is try easier, not harder. So I it is okay if you're going to get a wee nosy on on your phone, but try to, you know, limit it as much as your screen time as you can before bedtime, because we know that if you're doing that your brain becomes really active again. Plus, the blue light sends a receptor to the brain to turn around, goes don't release that melatonin just yet because, say, emma, sean or jackie or mary or joe, they want us to kind of stay up because the blue light is similar to the blue light to be see outside. So that's why the melatonin isn't released in the system and stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And if you're looking for a dress or a pair of shoes or whatever, sure you could be up the all-hours, yeah.
Speaker 1:You know? No, it's just one of them things. It's like, see, like I know the importance of sleep and I fucking like, even if I go to bed early and even if I go to bed early and I wake up, say I go to bed at nine o'clock and I'm up at five or half five for the gym, right, it's still fucking late when we're getting out of bed. So why sleep any later? And I'm like or why go to bed any later? And I'm like, fuck, I just, I just don't want to put up with the hassle the next day.
Speaker 1:You know what it feels like you're hungover. So when you're, when you're sleep deprived, you're asleep. And usually say, if I go to bed late and wake up early, let's say I go to bed at 12 and I have to wake up at 5 for the gym, I wake up easy, right, because I'm not on a deep, I don't feel like I'm in a deep asleep, but I always come to bed early. But then later on today, like 2 o'clock, 1 o'clock in the afternoon, boom, severe crash. I'd just be like fuck me, I have a load of hours ahead of me here.
Speaker 2:What can happen there too, particularly if you are getting forced seriously by your alarm. All of a sudden, the cortisol levels are getting spiked, and cortisol can kind of get a bad rep sometimes, but it's actually a good thing. It's one of the first chemicals that's released in your body the moment your feet hits the floor. So in terms of having to get it, because you know you have somewhere to go- yeah, so that's where you're alert.
Speaker 2:Plus, you know they're dependent on me to be in whatever workspace I have to be in, because I have people relying on me to perform or train or whatever it is. We also have that as well with within the, within that space. But for me, um, if we kind of go back a wee bit, what I would kind of find sometimes doing our work is educating people on sleep. More and more I'm getting sent from athletes, county players, whatever sleep track, so they track their sleep, which I get, which is no problem, and they'll send their stuff over to me and they'll say oh Emma, can you decipher that for me and tell me where I'm at? My big thing is when it kind of comes to track and sleep is. I would be cautious about it, to be honest with you?
Speaker 1:yeah, I've never done it. My coach used to wear one of them whoop watches. Yeah, it's great till you're asleep. I was like no, because if my fucking, if I go to bed at 10 o'clock and I wake up at 8 o'clock in the morning and my fucking watch tells me I had a shit sleep, I ain't gonna perform shit because it's telling me, but I feel alright if I feel alright. I'm gonna go up and go fuck it. I feel great, I'm gonna go and sport. Hang around here, aren't they?
Speaker 2:because now it's entered into your brain. I haven't slept right and I know if I don't sleep and it goes potentially an impact on my performance.
Speaker 2:So my idea like, and even when I'm kind of looking at sleep and there's a lot of things out there like we can track your non-rem, non-rem 2, non-rem 3 and then rem sleep. The thing about sleep trackers is again from the ones that has been sent to me, there's a lot said about them on what they can actually do. So I would always urge, on the side of caution, if I can say we can do this, this, this, this, this. If it's too good to be true, it usually is. Yeah, when it kind of comes to sleep trackers. What sleep trackers can do is tell you when you go to bed, when, when you physically go to sleep and when you get up yeah it could probably touch on non-rem too, which is when your heart rate gets a wee bit slower, your breathing gets a wee bit slower.
Speaker 2:But see, in terms of, can it track when you're in non-REM 3 and when you're in REM? It physically can't, and the reason why it can't is because those two areas in your sleep are actually measured in brainwave activity and there's not a hope that that watch or whip or whatever, or even your phone can pick up on that. See if it can wow. But I doubt it very, very much. One of the simple questions and I would do a lot of kind of sports, kind of workshops, and get at clubs and stuff, again sports teams, and do one tomorrow night, and they always ask me well then, what do we do instead now? So ask yourself some kind of reflective, retrospective questions. One would be do you feel in your heart of hearts that you're actually getting enough sleep and take some time to think about it next, next one I would kind of ask is if you didn't set your alarm, would you have slept past the time to get up? Right, that's another way to track if you're getting enough sleep. And the other one would be when your alarm went off, could you just have rolled over and got an extra wee sleep, and it could not necessarily be an hour, it can be 25 minutes, 20 minutes or whatever. And then the other wee question that I ask everybody just to think about, rather than spending a fortune on sleep trackers and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:There is always saying to yourself can you perform optimally? And what I perform optimally? And what I mean optimally is perform well in your job or your sport or even just being a mommy or daddy or whatever it is. Can you perform the a really decent enough level, uh, but without your coffee or energy drinks by 12 o'clock? And if then the answers we read, despite the questions, and if your listeners are kind of thinking going hmm, I must actually think about that. Go for it and look at it with a degree of curiosity. That's what I'd be asking people to go on. They try easier. Look at it if you're kind of say yourself god, I've answered yes and I've answered a few no's in there.
Speaker 1:If that's the case, well then maybe reach out and see if there's a wee sleep coach making kind of steering the right path yeah, because like I've never, ever heard of a sleep coach, so it's like I know it's a thing and a lot of people would always say but like there's all, like I've all obviously been involved in like high performance sports teams, like with boxing and the ice team and stuff, and we had like a like a sports psychologist who used to come in and do wee things with us, like after training.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because when you finish training you won't grab your phone or your phone or your. He used to make us lie down for like 15 minutes, just lie there. In training camps when we were abroad, no one was allowed to go and just lift their phone right away. It was always just lie down and just reflect on the session and reflect on what you could do and just let your brain just slow down and just your heart rate dropping, everything. Just relax and then get up, go shower and get your phone and he says, now, if he's gonna do that, put your phone down 15 minutes before he's probably gonna sleep and then do that same thing. Yeah, so there's obviously like a benefit to just like not just turn the phone off and trying to sleep like jump in the bed.
Speaker 2:It doesn't work, to be honest, and my thing is is some people turn around and say to me it's like oh well, when should I go to bed? Go to bed when you're sleeping, yeah, you know. You don't open the fridge door and stare at the fridge going still not hungry, yeah, still not hungry. You don't sit in the toilet and say, still, we can't go to the toilet you go to the toilet.
Speaker 2:You gotta go to the toilet. You open the fridge when you're hungry, or, if you're like me, you'd be opening the fridge flat out.
Speaker 2:But my thing is is go to bed when you are sleeping, and the big thing that I would always encourage anybody when we're developing a sleep plan. So there's different types of sleepers, but when you're developing a sleep plan we always try to build on consistency, right. So is in that golden hour before bed, watch a wee routine and then try to go to bed roughly the same time every night now you have a wee bit of a wiggle room of about 30 minutes either side of that clock.
Speaker 2:So say, for your bedtime that's 10, you have a wee wiggle room. You could probably, you know, if there's a show on Netflix and it's a brilliant episode and he says I would love to stay up to watch another wee one, it's okay uh, no, life's life. Or if you're going out for dinner with your friends or your mates or whatever, or just whatever's going on the demands, it's okay to have a wee bit of a wiggle room on that.
Speaker 2:And then the other side, too, is getting up and that's the most important thing right it's getting up at the same time every day, including weekends, and whenever I say at my workshops, everyone rolls their eyes because they turn around says but I love me lying on a saturday and I love me lying on a sunday.
Speaker 1:You want one day and I understand that and people turn around.
Speaker 2:But I use me, I use me. Weekends they kind of, you know, top up on me not getting a good night's sleep during the night and or kind of during the week they're out of sleep. Doesn't kind of work like that. You can't add, you can't. It's not. It's not like a bank where you get to pay on your sleep at the weekend and then you take out from it at the week, at during it doesn't make you feel any better on that day.
Speaker 1:It's just you've lost that that two couple of hours and you're tired from it. It's been going on. Feel the same now. Do you sleep till 8am or 10am, 100% you're gonna wake up the same and the big thing too.
Speaker 2:When we kind of do that and we are very strict during the weekdays and we're not at the weekend, it really messes up our circadian rhythm and everybody is basically circadian. It's just a latin or a greek term that means around a day, it's 24 hours, but sleep science has showed us it's actually 24 hours and 11 minutes.
Speaker 2:But we're not going to argue over 11 minutes, okay, and it's centered in the deep part of our brain, right in the middle of it, and it's really really important in terms of regulating our sleep. So that's why it's so important that we have a start time when we go to bed or when we sleep and an end time when we get up out of bed, and that really helps circulate our circadian rhythm. But our circadian rhythm actually acts very similar to your sleep is when it's night time we go to sleep. When it's daytime we get up. But there's your circadian rhythm in terms of sleep. It also has a big impact on, actually, when you eat, when you go to the bathroom, and your food, and sometimes, too, you can have a big impact on your mood. So you have the circadian rhythm, but another thing to you, what you have this side of the fence, is your thing called your sleep pressure. So when you get up at the same time every day, I think all sleep pressure is built up and there's a chemical called addison and it usually hits its peak shown around 12 hours or 14, maybe 15 hours in the day, right, and that is why it's really really good idea that we have a positive, consistent sleep routine so our sleep pressure builds up and our circadian rhythms are in sync.
Speaker 2:Things that mess up your sleep pressure is things like stumbling drinks after three o'clock and coffee. And I'm just to be clear, I'm a coffee drinker, right, and I'm not telling people not to have a cup of tea. I drink coffee and tea and stuff like that. And again, whenever I bring that up on podcasts or whenever I bring that up when I'm doing training, everybody goes. Are you telling me I'm not allowed to hear coffee? No, have a cup of tea or coffee, enjoy them. There's so many benefits come off the back of it. But the devil in the detail when it comes to coffee, sean, is time and dose. Yeah, that's the killer and what you could find sometimes, too, that if you adjust that, you adjust your sleep times, you might find yourself helping Sleeping a wee bit better yeah, sleeping a wee, bit better.
Speaker 1:So see, tea obviously has caffeine in it too. I drink a cup of tea every night before I go to bed.
Speaker 2:And I sleep like a fucking log every night and that's it's, and I would get that sometimes in my workshops. Uh, because everybody's sensitivity towards tea is obviously very, very different and even coffee and stuff. I get there too.
Speaker 2:But what we would see in terms of sleep is that the older we get, our sensitivity and tolerance to tea and coffee actually becomes weaker yeah because our body can't produce it or get, get rid of it quickly enough, because I was doing this workshop and we were like with like a group maybe in their 20s, like they were like a sports club and they were like going, sure, same as you have a cup of tea where we ran a toast before bed and then I just fucking two bars of chocolate that's my problem.
Speaker 1:Two twixes in the fuck and a batari milk.
Speaker 2:I'm like my missus, like you got the normal, me fucking right and the thing, the thing, what you might find, what you get away with because you are a high performance athlete, yeah, that you are training to an optimal, optimal level. So in terms of that sleep cycle, yours probably isn't the same as the I hate using this word average, normal person right but let's call it what it is. You're probably in a different category, to be absolutely honest with you yeah.
Speaker 1:So let's say right. Let's say, for example yeah, I can go to bed, I have a routine. Right, I go to sleep. I'm using this as an example because I feel like this would be like like I'm a team talking, talking about Marty, my business partner. Right, he has a good routine. He's up, always, always, always wake early, but his sleep's always broken, always broken. But he goes to bed roughly at the same time, let's say 9am or 9pm, sorry, between 9 and 10pm every night, and he's always up around 6am and around that time. Right, but he always complains, saying fuck, I woke up twice last night.
Speaker 1:Then he begins and he's like I only had a ride in, and I woke up once last night and he can't believe it so what? Like the majority of time, I would say. Let's say he goes to bed at 9 and wakes up two or three times throughout the night. Yep, why, like? How is that constantly happening?
Speaker 2:it can happen for a number of reasons, and not necessarily Murray, but other clients that we kind of speak to, right. So we'll probably like anonymise it as such, right? So that's actually a common thing can happen. What you can find, by the way, it's just to reassure everybody. It's okay to wake up during the night.
Speaker 2:It's okay, it's okay, folks. They wake up during the night. We're all in A's now, we've got to get up and you've got to go for a pee. You might have a noisy neighbor. The cat down the street might have kicked over the wheelie bin. It's okay to wake up during the night, but the big thing is is that let's try to get you back to sleep again. So what I would find sometimes too in my world and sleep is people wake up and all of a sudden their mind comes oh my god, I have to do this tomorrow, this, this, this, this. And now they're coming stressing, and now they're stressing that they're stressed that they can't get back to sleep. That is not what we want. And people's minds now go from that um, parasympathetic side of the nervous system over now to the sympathy you know, you're sleeping and see if you're sleeping by the end of this podcast, I've done a good job.
Speaker 2:I'll tell you one thing if I do start telling people bedtime stories right there I accidentally subtitle, so I think and that can happen. So there's a number of techniques that you can actually do when you're in that space. One of the techniques, if you are a busy person and you are kind of more tending to kind of wake up a couple of nights during the week and your head's kind of busy, what you would do, we think, with our clients, is a thing called a brain dump.
Speaker 2:Before you go to bed, you literally get a piece of paper and we have it all kind of written down, our kind of guides and resources, and you write down everything that's inside your brain not when you're in bed, but know that we golden hour before you go to bed a part of your bedtime routine and what we kind of find sometimes too, that actually reduces down the likelihood of someone waking up during the night by about 50 percent which is really really good because, if you think about it, right from your right ear to your left ear is about six inches.
Speaker 2:Six inches and that's what your brain loves. Your brain really isn't made to be worrying and stressed, but the thing is, in our world, at this minute name 2025 everything has to be done by yesterday yeah you know I mean.
Speaker 2:So if you're going into bed and you're flat out busy and you may be drinking to your coffee, they can get you through the day, and all of a sudden you're jumping into bed. What you might find sometimes too, is that people can go to sleep no bother, but they're waking up, and when they when that happens is there's a wee techniques that we would use as well is we would get.
Speaker 2:People is number one, don't worry yeah okay, because even if you are resting, resting is like the contrary cousin. To sleep it's still okay. Yeah, the worst thing that you want to do is forcing yourself to get asleep. You won't happen. It's kind of like forcing your digestive system to work harder. It won't. And another wee technique that I would kind of use sometimes and I find quite beneficial is you get a word and you find everything that's associated with that word. So let's take, for example, cat, everything. You're lying in bed at night and you can't sleep and your mind's busy it's wandering.
Speaker 1:I was thinking cat. I was thinking I'm a squad of cats.
Speaker 2:You're kidding. We say dogs, dogs, right. We say they're right. I'm not mad about cats, the way I came out of my head, right. But you say you say uh, the word dog, find everything with the letter d that's associated with d. So dinosaur digger dump. You go through everything that you can kind of think of on that, right, yeah, I mean everything. And then you move to oh and everything that you've got to think about to do with the word the letter o. So it can't be I know octopus, orange, orangutan. You name it and then you go to the word g and you get another one. You go through it again and then what you can do is you pick another word and really what that's doing, it's helping settling the brain, focusing on one thing at one time yeah because from working with the clients I work with, they turn around goes.
Speaker 2:As soon as I wake up in my sleep is I check my phone. I do a wee quick maths when's the next time, how long is it that I have to get up? I start thinking about all the things I have to do tomorrow. But also what we can recommend here, too, is if you do wake up during the night and you are lying in your bed and you're, you can't toss or turn. What can happen to is emotionally, mentally and physically, you can now start associating sleep with stress, yeah, which is not what you want, because ultimately, your bed should be for two things sleep and rest, or sex. Okay, them's really the two things there. It's not really for stress. So for any of us who is in that kind of space, it's your line of tossing and turning in your bed.
Speaker 2:It's okay to actually physically come out of your bed and maybe go into another room, read a book, listen to radio, do something that will not activate the brain so you kind of break that wee gap and then, when you feel tired or nothing, try again to kind of go back to sleep and see how you kind of get, get on name's just a wee tips that we would kind of encourage people to do.
Speaker 2:And another thing too is what you might find is, if that is, uh, what we can have is people kind of coming in and they're probably unaware that they're actually experiencing periods of either acute or chronic insomnia yeah and there's a wee methodologies and it's an evidence-based strategy called cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia and that is where you physically break down the mental relationship with bed and then you start helping people how to challenge the negative thoughts that can kind of come to their head, or the buzzy thoughts that can kind of come under their head, or the stress thoughts that can kind of come under their head in a positive way yeah allow them to sleep better do you so see?
Speaker 1:see that thing with the eight hours. Yeah is eight hours, the go to like is eight hours, sleep, that like. Is that the ballpark or is it like?
Speaker 2:the thing is okay and this comes up every because it's always eight hours. I need to get me people just assume it's eight hours, I go.
Speaker 1:I love 12 hours.
Speaker 2:12 hours, I get 10 hours if you think about it as it's public health guidance right on sleep. But there's no Shangri-La, no magic number, because if I turn around to some of my clients and go you need to get 8 hours, they turn around and say, jesus, I don't know, I've got 6 but, I can still perform well on six.
Speaker 2:You know, that's what David would turn around and say to me he goes. If I was getting six hours consistent sleep every night of the week, maybe six and a half, I'd be delighted. What we have found in the world of sleep is that that magic number is actually causing more stress around sleep than it actually is helping, because people are kind of going if I don't sleep and then all of a sudden they start reaffirming Sleep less and less and less Sleep, less and less and less, which is what you want.
Speaker 2:But the thing is, for the average person, you be kind of saying to them see, if you're getting anywhere between six and eight hours sleep a night, and it's consistent. You know what I mean. And consistent, you know, and it's good quality sleep and it's happening all, all regularly enough happy days, and the thing is is that even if you get a bad night's sleep, it's okay because the way to get over a bad night's sleep is see, the next night you'll probably sleep a wee bit better.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and the thing is like I'll go back to what I said at the very start of the podcast is it's try easier, not try harder in case of sleep.
Speaker 2:Now, if you're an elite athlete, so if you're a county player or yourself, sean, or a football player or someone who used to in high competitions in judici the amount of sleep that would be recommended for them, which obviously be much higher than the average person. So the average person say, if you're getting, uh, anything between maybe 48 hours of sleep a night, say right or sorry, a week, but for an elite athlete, you'd be kind of hoping that they would get anywhere between 50, 60, 60 hours of sleep a week and that's about eight hours a night and it's okay. But again, if you're not hitting that, again, that's not a magic number either. It all depends on the person. And the thing is, when we work with a person, one of the first things that I do is what's your sleep goal? What is what you really want to get off?
Speaker 1:I don't even think people I don't even think people will have a sleep goal. It's just people just want to feel good getting out of bed and that's zombies getting out of bed.
Speaker 2:People just want to get up and be like a hundred percent and that comes up more and more. You know, when I'm talking to people during the reassessment, like what do you want? And he turns around and goes.
Speaker 2:I don't really know because, I've never come into my bed ever feeling great, and so so your job is you want to wake up the next morning and feel pretty decent and go. I it's like well, so what if? What are you getting at the moment there? Go, oh, I am, and I'm looking. I've been getting five, all right. So what happens if we got to five hours and 25 minutes this week? Oh, yeah, that would be good. Okay, and then what we do is see next week, let's build it up to five hours and 45 minutes and then the week after let's build it up to five hours and 55 minutes.
Speaker 2:It's no different day when you're training people. You're not going to take someone from never being in a gym before to now running the london marathon. It's a progression, and the exact same thing with sleep. It's a muscle, you can train it and you can retrain it. And the thing is it's like all sleep disorders and all issues of insomnia and all that type of stuff. It's all treatable all through retraining, having conversations and having because routines people fucking revert back to, just like.
Speaker 1:People don't know that there's a sleep coach. People don't know that you can learn how to fucking sleep again. People don't know like. People just think I can't sleep and a lot of people like in belfast, where I come from, we just take tablets, take sleep tablets it's something that I what the fuck like? My ma is a fucking terrible sleeper.
Speaker 1:Like she has these mad dreams and all she thinks the devil's coming to get her and all she's like she's slashing raids for hours like for a couple of hours, raids magazines and all, and goes to bed at like half ten in and hear a flat about that as well, over and over. Like when I lived at home, I was like they come into their room like 10 in the morning where I was like get out the fuck.
Speaker 2:You reckon you're in sleep. I'm like fucking hell aye.
Speaker 1:And then she jumps in bed and reads a magazine they're like half three for an hour and I'm like and then she wakes up and she's like, fucked, I'm r. Her friends like she's oh, she's been like this for years, right. So like her friends are like I was taking me tablets. She's never done it. She's like, no, I've not a chance. And I says don't be taking them, fucking tablets. Do not do that, because if you take them it's game over.
Speaker 2:You'll never sleep with them the thing about sleep medication is obviously you have to be under the direction of a doctor, and what they would see with um sleep medication. It's a last, last resort and it's usually for a very short period. It's never longer than two weeks. To be honest with you, there are cases where I and wife worked with people either through workshops or whatever. They come up to me and says, oh, I've been on them years. What can happen there, too, with sleep medication is you rely on them, you can rely on them years. What can happen there, too, with sleep medication is you rely on them, you can rely on them. And what you can do is they actually flood the brain with melatonin, and the reality is is that they're like a super dose of melatonin and that's enough.
Speaker 2:If you super dose melatonin on the brain, you will naturally can't go out. But the thing is is what we would see is you can. Actually, it's never a long-term thing, because what can happen? The penile gland in your brain will turn around and says, well, I don't have to produce melatonin the way I've had it before. Yeah, so therefore, whenever we come off those sleeping drugs, you can have a thing called a rebound insomnia effect, where you can just rebound back into insomnia again, where you're not sleeping again. So my thing is is what?
Speaker 1:benefit does that do they have on anybody? They be honest with you, I would be.
Speaker 2:I know, for I know a few people that can't work as as GPS and stuff yet and they would be very cautious.
Speaker 2:They are there but they are pretty much up to the guidance of what the GP thinks is best for you, but as a short term measure to get you over the hump. But as a long-term measure, look the the guidance would be no and even like whatever I can see because people it's kind of saying me things and even clients are kind of coming in about melatonin gummies and melatonin tablets and stuff like that there too, and I always kind of say them folks, just be really careful about them, because what can happen to you is our body actually produces a drop, I mean a drop of melatonin to help you, us, enter the sleep race. It doesn't actually make you sleep. It's kind of like the 100 meter sprinter he loads of gun and he fires. That's kind of what melatonin does. But the melatonin supplements and gummies and stuff I got there too, they used to have about anything between five mil to maybe 15 mil per go you're, it's a super super dose.
Speaker 2:So it's not good and, like you've made a really good point, you can actually become reliant on them, yep, and then you lose the ability then to get yourself back into a good night's sleep again on your own again. And that's really really important, like and I always kind of say it's like mother nature never, ever, intended for us ever.
Speaker 1:They do that type of stuff.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean because, like, we've been sleeping since the dinosaurs, you know what I mean. So it's obviously it was and, like our for generations have never had to use it and stuff like that. There too, my wee thing is if some people I know have used it, they've come back from australia and they're jet lagged and they just need maybe one just to kind of get them back into sync again. If that's the case, go ahead, but on your head be it. At the end of the day, I'm not your granny, I'm not your mommy. It's up to you to make a decision on it. I have the courage. Just caution in that space, to be honest. Yeah well, it's up to you to make a decision on it. I have the courage.
Speaker 1:Just caution in that space, to be honest yeah, well, it's like like all I was going to be for talking back like I'd be fucked.
Speaker 1:I sleep deprived of course you are sleep deprived after coming back to see the next day. Last year we all come back. I was fucked, of course. I like absolutely exhausted. I had a. I couldn't sleep. Get home tired of sleep, tried to get a nap, couldn't sleep. I was like what the fuck it's? Because you're literally just doing night shifts. You've just went and done night shifts and then you get like two hours sleep. It's like six in the morning, eight in the morning and you're up again Carry on drinking.
Speaker 2:Your body clock's over the shop isn't it?
Speaker 1:It's like, fuck, I'm going to go back to sleep here and then you're so tired Like I'm. I'm like I'd be exhausted and I still can't sleep. So I'd be walking around Like a tablet here, but like I haven't taken any tablets, I understand, but I'm like. Fuck, I just want to sleep and it's so annoying I'm like Imagine if I blow my brains out there is a lot of people who kind of feel that way, you know.
Speaker 2:So there's when we talk about sleep, it's really important that we talk about sleep deprivation and insomnia. They're not the same. They're very, very different. So sleep deprivation is something that you do onto yourself self-afflicted.
Speaker 1:I always know when I come back. I'm like fuck.
Speaker 2:I'm sitting on this thing and I'm or what I would find sometimes too, is new parents Can we sleep? The price Because we may be in the house trying to get settled, so it can be either done on to yourself or external factors is putting it on to you. Okay, and then you have insomnia, which is actually basically you want to sleep and you can't. That's the simplest way. Now there's all our medical long-term definitions of it.
Speaker 2:I like to keep the messages simple and when you break insomnia up, you would break it up into acute and chronic, and the thing is is for everybody at home. We all go through periods of acute insomnia where you want to sleep and you bloody can't, and that can happen two or three nights every week for about for a fortnight up. They can have three months. We all go through weekend of periods again. I don't care who says that, but we all do, and that can come from stress related and work, from. You've had an argument and you're sitting your bed and I think and you're saying I would love they have said that in that argument or whatever else is going.
Speaker 2:And then you have a thing and it's called chronic insomnia, where it exceeds that three months and now it has now become more harder to undo and fix, but it's like everything's shown, it can be treated and it can be fixed. So that's just that wee kind of difference in that space there too yeah, well, it's.
Speaker 1:It's good to know that there are like, because even for me, when you like have a series that attacks me and I was like fuck, what's this? Who's this boy? Sleep coach? Fuck, okay, sounds good, because I, because I I know of people who suffer from fuck and no sleep, literally well, very broken sleep, and they seem to be tired a lot of the time, and to me it's like I feel like it's common sense. But you're saying is that people are just bottled up in their own hair at night time, but it's, they never think. Like, like my wife, she overthink, right, she's, she's got these jobs and she's really busy yeah, I go.
Speaker 1:Where do you get the bedtime to go see all this when it's dead before you get to bed? I'm going to go to the other side.
Speaker 2:I just did before I get to bed yeah, so it kind of goes back to what we said. Like you made a really good point there. It's about that golden hour before bed. Like my thing is is that a ruffled mind equals a restless pillow. It really does. Your bed is for sleeping in and for whatever else.
Speaker 1:Anybody have. Okay, anybody have that. I don't have, yeah, it's not for. And that may help you get to sleep.
Speaker 2:Well, it actually can but anyway, I'm not good on that one, but it actually.
Speaker 1:Snacks coach. Forward slice sleep coach.
Speaker 2:I'm just all right with the sleep stuff, but that's a different story. But yes, that'll be hour before bed is really important to nearly debriefing the mind. But if you think about it in our society right now is we're constantly in reception mode. Okay, that we're always doing and we only enter reflection mode is when our head hits the pillow because the house is quiet, there's nobody around, and then the mind just there's no distractions, there's no distractions and then all of a sudden, oh, I have to do this, I have to do this, I have to do this.
Speaker 2:It's the worst place to problem solve. It's the worst place to make decisions.
Speaker 2:It's usually always good ideas keep your bed for sleeping in, and that's easy to do and for and for a wee bit of that from showing the yeah, but the thing is that I really wanted to kind of talk about is sleep and performance that's really really crucial and the more I kind of work with sports clubs, that seems to be kind of coming up and it was a really kind of big feature in an article I read there from like matt fraser and that crossfit athlete he's like he's describing himself as the fittest man in the world. He says that his entire base and his performance is based on his sleep routine and he says that if sleep, uh, wasn't illegal, it would be illegal because of the health benefits, that kind of come off it.
Speaker 2:So whenever I kind of go on to talk to sports clubs or athletes or whatever and it can be from a county player the whole way through to a really good club person playing at a very high level and stuff like that there.
Speaker 2:So when we talk about, uh, sports performance, it's really good that we talk about the impact of sleep deprivation first and then we talk about getting a good sleeping.
Speaker 2:So when we talk about sleep, uh, we have to talk about the physical performance, the cognitive performance, injury and illness recovery, and then the hormonal imbalance in your metabolism.
Speaker 2:So when we don't sleep and that can happen even for elite athletes too, more and more when I'm working with them, they say, in the lead up to a big game, in the lead up to a fight, they're struggling to sleep or if the result doesn't go their way, they would say for the next couple of days their sleep's all over the place because they're renumerating or they're going back over the performance again. So, in terms of not sleeping has a big, big impact on your physical performance because your strength isn't there, yeah, your power isn't there, your agility isn't there in terms of sleep deprivation, for your cognitive performance in terms of your ability to actually think on your feet. Yeah, I also receive instructions. Your timing and your accuracy is massively 100. And then, when you are sleep deprived and you're training at a very optimal level, you're actually more prone to illness like flus, yeah, head colds and I mean stomach bugs, your immune system gets absolutely rattled.
Speaker 2:And the thing is is that when we get a good night's sleep, sleep actually restocks our immune system every night of the week, which is absolutely amazing, and we're more susceptible to sickness and illness when we don't sleep. So if you're an athlete and you're not sleeping but you're performing at a level and every session you're emptying the tank and that has a big impact. And then in terms of the recovery, which is a really, really important area is it's not allowing us to recover, naturally enough, because when we sleep we go through those REM cycles that we kind of talked, or the non-REM run the whole way through. The REM it is the release of anti-inflammatory things in the body, with glycogen getting restarted, the human growth hormone is getting released within the system again allows the muscles and tissues and ligaments to kind of repair and mend again. And then, from a metabolism point of view, is that when you get a good night's sleep, you, or when you don't get a good night's sleep sorry, your appetite the next day is probably going to be shot to bits.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're probably more inclined to eat shitty foods, snacky stuff sugar crisps and all the kind of shitty stuff that you don't really need.
Speaker 2:But then the flip side is is that when you do get a good night's sleep and you're a high performance athlete, it's the complete opposite of everything we just talked about. Yeah, you have power, you have accuracy, you have the strength, you have the endurance to go the full, the full round. Your cognitive ability is greatly improved. You're able to receive instruction and perform. You're able to remember routines and combinations and strategies. You're probably not going to be susceptible to colds, flus, illnesses and tummy bugs, and you're also going to have a wee bit of rose in your rose temple glasses and you're probably going to be nicer to kind of be around. And the big thing that we don't talk about enough when it kind of comes to sleep is your emotional regulation. Emotionally, youotionally, you're better. Emotionally, you're in a better place in terms of your patience, and you're probably better to be around.
Speaker 2:And you're probably more productive. So when we would find with athletes that get their sleep sorted? So sometimes athletes come to me and their sleep is shot to bits. What we find when we get their sleep back on the sleep horse again is that their motivation for their training increases. They look forward to training. They don't dread it. They don't turn around and say, fuck, I have to go to train. That empty tank, I have nothing in the tank. Yeah, doing that kind of red bull and pretend that I'm all right and pretend that I'm okay. So it's the complete opposite of that. And then, obviously, when we get a good night's sleep, you're getting the full benefits of your immune system being resect, the human growth hormone being produced within the body in a sensible way, yeah, and you're getting that full night's sleep. And that's the complete opposite. And that's why sleep for high performance athletes is crucial. But sleep in general as a general health thing for anybody who's an average Joe like me just out there is brilliant. And the reality is, why would you not do it?
Speaker 1:It's free. I know that's exactly it.
Speaker 1:We, tommy McCarthy, you were saying yeah well, me and Tommy McCarthy were training and we we had a sparring camp organised in Rotherham over Peter Fury's place, um Tyson Fury's uncle his place, sparring Tommy was going to spar Huey Fury, his son. We had to travel to Dublin. See, our flight was at five so we had to be in the airport for three. So we left Belfast at 1am, got a flight from Dublin to Manchester, I think. So we left Belfast at one, got down there for 3, checked in the Holland Airport for an hour or two, flew at 5, got there safe 6, half 6. Then we had the drive from Manchester to Rotherham, which took us an hour and a bit, and then checked in the hotel and we had spawned at 10am.
Speaker 1:So Tommy was like I'm not going to spawn and Pete was like we've organised spawn, we came over here to spawn, you'll spar again today. Tomorrow we get, yeah, so we'll get two spars. And tommy was just like. I could see that he was like, he was emotionally like they want to be here, yeah, he get in. And he performed. Of course he didn't want to be here, he's just yeah, and and I was all right.
Speaker 1:I was like I'm sweet, I'm alright, because I was refusing to tell myself I'm tired. I was just maybe just being I don't know, like stubborn towards my tiredness, but I didn't want to give that energy off that. It was like I'm tired or making excuses before I even go on the spot. But I went in and I performed sweet. I was like I bothered fucking Hugo and Tommy was like the opposite. He was exhausted and he was like giving. But he was telling himself I said I'm not smart today. I'm not smart today, I'm not smart today, the whole way over. And yeah, obviously, in the negative talk that he was giving himself, maybe he made him perform shit or the sleep that I don't know. But I was just positively speaking to myself. I was like I ain't gonna spar, I'll be all right.
Speaker 2:I'll be all right, I just kept telling myself that it was all right.
Speaker 1:And when I got in and sparred it was brand new. It was like sort of all good.
Speaker 2:What you might find truth in that sometimes you can um, you know, um reaffirm to yourself that I haven't slept, I haven't slept, I haven't slept equals I'm not going to be performed, but sleep is so individual. Yeah, it really is. Um, like your case and tommy's, like that would be probably the perfect case study yeah, to be absolutely honest with you.
Speaker 2:There can be a thing where it's a self-fulfilling prophecy sometimes, that if you tell yourself enough that you're a bad sleeper or you're not asleep you're probably your brain will say, all right, okay, well, maybe, maybe we'll not perform today then, because you haven't.
Speaker 2:But like you says, but I wouldn't rely on that but my my thing is is that could you imagine what your performance would have been like if you got a full, rested sleep? You know what I mean. You'd probably be knocking boys out. You know what I mean? And it's the same with Tommy as well. I think Tommy was sold a bit of a dud there. To be honest with you, it's completely unfair because, like he's going on, he's exhausted and again, sleep is different for different people and you kind of have to be kind of factored into.
Speaker 1:He's an absolute unit. He's a cruiserweight, I'm a fucking super.
Speaker 2:He's an absolute unit, so it does kind of show you the difference in those kind of sleep habits and he was QE Fury.
Speaker 1:He was born even bigger than Tommy. Again, tommy's a cruiserweight, qe Fury's a heavyweight. So he, it's we, it's fucking much bigger and Hamminger required much more.
Speaker 2:Did you plan for this man to just get battered?
Speaker 1:I don't know he asked for it. He asked for a battered barn, and we travelled for it.
Speaker 2:So but um but you should get your man to come over and fight Tommy after a good night's sleep, and we'll see how good this.
Speaker 1:I think he was much better the second day. He was much more aware and more on it.
Speaker 2:But you know what can have a big impact too when we talk about sleep. There's three different types of people. There is lurks and there's night owls and, believe it or not, if you're an athlete or you're just a person, you can't fall into two camps there and that's your sleep chronotype and what we find sometimes too, that if you're a night owl but you're being forced to train in the morning, you don't tend to perform very well. Yeah, from a sleep point of, from from a performance point of view. But if you're a lurk like you strike me as lurk you're able to get out of bed. No bother, I'm a lurk as well. I can perform better in the morning time.
Speaker 2:But if you ask me to go and train or perform work ways at seven, eight o'clock at night, I can't do it. I'm best performing in before lunchtime or in that early afternoon stage. Yeah, so I think that has to be kind of thrown into the mix there to you about what sleep types are. Yeah, uh, the travel probably is a bit of a bugger, and then you're sleep deprived and you're traveling and you're in a strange place. All that needs to be far turned into the mix.
Speaker 1:What about naps? Are you a firm believer of people napping in the afternoon Naps are no bother, like you know.
Speaker 2:again, look, I'm not your granny and I'm not your mommy and I'm not the nap police and I'm asked that all the time. They're okay as long as they're not used as a crutch to supplement you getting continuous bad night's sleep.
Speaker 1:years bad night's sleep, and when we talk about a nap is uh, people go to with the best intentions to have a nap, and then they wake up five hours later and they go oh my god, where am I? I never want to sleep tonight. I never want to sleep.
Speaker 2:If you're having difficulties of your sleep, napping should be probably a wee bit of a no-no. Uh, to be honest with you, it's going to jeopardize because it's going to, it's going to be cross and plus, we talked to you about there, about your sleep drive. When you nap it really messes up your sleep drive and those addison levels there to you at night time. Uh, but if you're a high performance athlete, yes, sleep is good. Uh, particularly if you're going to train that night or you have a fight night, a fight night that night. For the average person, a wee 30 minute power nap does no harm. Uh, to be honest with you, um, a lot.
Speaker 2:What I would kind of find from the research is um, if you're feeling tired but you know you have to hop in the car to drive a bike distance, yeah, get a wee nap beforehand. You'll put that on on on the cards. Um, sleeping's okay during the day, as long as it's not after three o'clock. Um, you don't have an issue with your sleep anyway and you just need to give you a wee bit of a boost. If you're an athlete, um, you'd obviously increase out that nap time because obviously you're training at a higher optimal levels and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:There too, the reason why we always say to people is that we 30 minute nap is spot on is because you don't tend to go into REM sleep. You don't tend to go into REM sleep. You don't tend to go into deep, deep sleep. You tend to kind of stay on the shallow-y type end of sleep of kind of non-REM 1 and non-REM 2. That's perfect. Anymore, you're really starting to kind of have a big consequence on your sleep that night. So napping's okay. Again, time and dose is always the devil in the details.
Speaker 1:See if nap for like half hour, I wake up. I don't know where I am. I'm like what the fuck? The clown has no penis.
Speaker 2:I don't know what's going on.
Speaker 1:I'm like what the fuck? Where am I?
Speaker 2:so it depends on the person. Like I know a mate of mine, he has his power nap nailed down to 16 minutes.
Speaker 2:I don't know how he's doing it, but he's trained his brain and he's amazing at it and they wake up, boom, a brand new man now. So it depends on the person. Again, there, too, I'm okay with them, as long as they're not used as a crutch to for a bad night's sleep yeah, because it only continues it on. For you to be honest with you, yeah, that's it good to know, good to know.
Speaker 1:And if there's anyone who wants to like, let's say people have issues with sleep, we're going to be able to do if they want help with it oh, thank you.
Speaker 2:Um, I have a wee instagram page grant again. I've never done instagram or anything before, so I've kind of recently kind of started out. So follow me on the adult sleep coach. Na, um, you can find me there. Um, we can do online sessions or we can do in-person sessions. We can do workshops through a workplace or your community group or your sports club. That seems to become more kind of popular too.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna be. There's a. I'm gonna be working in a place called your fuzzy wind area again, amazing fuzzy therapy team there on a Saturday on a sleep clinic as well, which is really good. So if anybody has any fuzzy therapy issues or injuries, stuff out there. Your fuzzy. And they're Saturday on a sleep clinic as well, which is really good. So if anybody has any physiotherapy issues or injuries, stuff out there. Your physician there, absolutely fabulous. I'm going to be working there with Steve and Justine and his team now over the next few weeks. So follow me on Instagram if you like, if you want. They don't have to if they don't want to, and they can reach out and happy to help.
Speaker 1:Just because it's as I say, it's something people wouldn't be very known, that there's a sleep coach out there. I say people are just people, just think I can't sleep, fucks you.
Speaker 2:It's just, I have to just live with this now. You have to live it or just try yourself and you try harder and you can't sleep. Well, look, my thing is is that it's no different to a person who goes to a PT.
Speaker 1:It's no different to someone who goes for a wee bit of help about their weight. It's no different to someone who goes to help about whatever you. You always go to something for help to make yourself happier. Yeah, and that's what it basically is, by the way. And you want to be happier? You want to sleep better? Yeah, be happier. Then go to go to his sleep coach.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, absolutely. If they want, they no worries at all. Or if they just want to come along and just follow my page and if you're just like you know what I can apply some of that myself, go for it, have a taste, because I put information up all the time and it's free for you. But if you just want to take that extra wee step, I should reach out.
Speaker 1:No, we'll get a wee chat there you have it, just struggling with sleep. Here's your mom. Cheers for coming down.