1. The Twisted Tale of Thomas Eugene Creech

The Lethal Library: The Twisted Tale of Thomas Eugene Creech 

Welcome to the first episode of The Lethal Library with Stephanie and Dani! This week, the duo dives into the wild and chilling story of Thomas Eugene Creech, a death row inmate with a chaotic past in the Pacific Northwest. From his troubled childhood and numerous murders to the countless legal twists and execution delays, Stephanie and Dani serve up a mix of dark humor, sarcasm, and fascinating facts. Get ready to hear about Creech's crazy life, botched execution attempts, and the bizarre twists that make this true crime tale unforgettable. Join us for some thrilling storytelling, a few laughs, and a whole lot of 'What were they thinking?!' moments. 

Contact The Lethal Library at TheLethalLibrary@gmail.com. Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok!

Transcript

0:00

You

Stephanie 0:30

everyone, and welcome to our first episode of The Lethal Library. I'm Stephanie. I'm Dani. And we are here to talk to you about some crazy cases. So, we focus on true crime, especially death row cases in the Pacific Northwest. You're going to hear a lot of factual data that's found in newspaper articles or other verifiable sources. You're also going to hear swearing. sarcasm, some dark humor. and a lot of just pointing out how stupid some of these criminals were at the time. So, Dani's going to kind of summarize our first case and what we are looking at.

Dani 1:10

today I'm going to be telling you about Thomas Eugene Creech. This is a man who has been acquitted of murder, goes on to get, a death sentence, gets off the death sentence, and then back to the death sentence again. You would think if you'd gotten off having a death sentence. You'd figure out, okay, let's be, let's chill, let's chill with the murdering.

Stephanie 1:43

not the

Dani 1:44

case. Not the case with this guy. Thomas Eugene Creech was born September 9th, 1950 in Hamilton, Idaho. He's always claimed he had a rough childhood, and some of his issues could be attributed to a cerebral concussion that occurred when he was pushed into a cement floor at five. When he was nine, Creech witnessed his aunt attempt to kill his pregnant mother in an argument on Christmas Day. When the baby was born, the baby boy died from complications of the beating. So this was a long, wasn't like, oh, my aunt's got in a fight. My brother died because my aunt, my mother were in a fight. How horrible.

Stephanie 2:26

Yeah, I've had family drama on holidays, but nothing nearly as Excessive. And I'm

Dani 2:33

not, you feel bad for him as a child having to witness this, but later, no. He claims at age 10 his father beat him after he was involved in a fight at school. He stated that he got in trouble for not fighting when he was younger and he was whipped a lot and his father was abusive to his entire family. Despite this, he claims he was close with his father and while in prison, his father came to visit him. And his father actually died in his arms, while he was visiting him in 1970. on December 11th, 1969, Creech was sentenced to a two to 50 year prison term for unarmed robbery and was later paroled in 1971. That's a two

Stephanie 3:25

to 50. Quite, quite the range on that one. I don't even know how that's two to 50. Might as well be two to

Dani 3:34

life. I mean. Anyway, quite a gamble. he was later paroled in 71 during his time in prison. He spent a year in a mental hospital and was diagnosed with antisocial disorder. In 1973, Creech was classified as a parole jumper. So he got out of prison. He obviously did not do 50 years. Looks like he was on the lower end of that. so he was, after he got out, he was classified as a parole jumper. Two months later. On October 23rd, 1973, Creech murdered 70 year old Paul Schrader in his Tucson, Arizona motel room. Creech and his wife, Thomasine, were living at the hotel at the time. They conveniently left the hotel the same day without paying their bill. Oopsie. Not suspicious at all. The day that Paul was found dead. Paul was found with 11 stab wounds and his throat was slashed. Paul Schrader was from Michigan and was retired from General Motors. He and his wife were in Tucson for only a month before the murderer. So he's, they're out there retiring, vacationing, getting some sun. Snowbird. So sad.

Stephanie 4:54

That's a brutal murder too. Stabbed 11 times.

Dani 4:57

11 times. And, and then, just for good measure, the throat. When, Paul Schrader's truck was recovered, missing items like stolen traveler's checks and credit cards were found. Creech had used Schrader's credit cards and vehicle to move to Portland. Creech was found when he was arrested in Salt Lake City, New Year's Eve, for disturbing the peace. Gotta keep it low profile.

Stephanie 5:22

See, I wouldn't be disturbing anyone's peace. I would be minding my business. With a stolen truck and traveler's checks and, and skipping out on your hotel, like you're probably prime suspect. They're like, well, these guys didn't pay and I tailed it out of here. Maybe have a few beers and shut off the

Dani 5:39

lights at 10.

Stephanie 5:40

Yeah.

Dani 5:40

You go at the East Coast New Year's Eve, 10 o'clock. You're good. You can watch the ball drop and go to bed.

Stephanie 5:50

Not causing any disturbances with anyone around me.

Dani 5:55

Creech was transferred back to Tucson where he was tried for the murder of Paul Schrader. In February 1974, Creech was on trial. The prosecution had the jailhouse snitch, David Lee Holtkamp, that testified in pre trial he had heard Creech confess to the murder while they were in jail together. He was subpoenaed for the trial but escaped the South Tucson Jail during the trial and was unable to be located. How do you lose your witness like that that's in prison? How do you lose? There, it's a seven. It can be anyone in the seventies.

Stephanie 6:33

There's a lot of escaping and escape. Dye your mustache, put on a slightly different type of outfit and start talking with an accent. You're essentially James Bond at that point. I just don't.

Dani 6:48

It blows my mind. but on March 6, 1974, Creech was acquitted for Paul's murder. So. Yeah. He was

Stephanie 6:57

acquitted for Paul.

Dani 7:00

And.

Stephanie 7:01

They lost their number one witness. Their number one witness is gone. And none of the other This is way before DNA.

Dani 7:10

Kind of seems way before common sense. Yeah, they're like, if there

Stephanie 7:15

isn't someone with a Polaroid photo, we're Polaroid

Dani 7:18

photos. Holding a knife to his neck. If you didn't tell the

Stephanie 7:22

hotel staff that, hey, I just A guy? How are we supposed to do anything with that? Funny. Not funny. But interesting, the criminal justice system. There's gonna be

Dani 7:37

some interesting Things happening. Yeah, I'm like, this is why they couldn't find these big notorious Serial killers, you know, in the 70s and 80s and 90s.

Stephanie 7:51

It was

Dani 7:51

a free for

Stephanie 7:52

all. easy peasy because no one was keeping track of anything at any time. No, they really weren't. They really weren't. So back in Portland, after his acquittal, Creech broke his parole from the 1969 conviction by stealing 13 cartons of cigarettes, 13 cartons. Why are you stealing? I'm gonna party on New Year's Eve, and I'm also gonna steal cigarettes to break my parole. But the charges were dropped by the Ohio Parole Board after Creech slit his wrist while in jail, cried for help, and was sent to the Oregon State Hospital. So, and I don't take that lightly. But you're going to see a pattern with this guy that is going to explain why I'm saying this. He is just back and forth. And, there's a lot of attention seeking things that he does throughout his time. The hospital stated Creech would be confined for such a long period of time, that they didn't need to even worry about, about this, uh, parole violation. He's a head case. He's going to be in here for a hot minute. A long time. Don't even worry about this. Because he's just going to be here. He's so severely mentally ill. So they're like, hey, judicially, don't worry about it. Right. We got him. You ready to hear how they got him? Let me just tell you. That's never good. He was committed to an Oregon State Hospital a few times between April 9th and June 20th, 1974. Like two and a half months. Don't worry, Ohio. We got this guy. We'll vacay. We got this guy. This guy's never going to be on the streets again. We got this. He was admitted on April 9th for 10 days. And then again on May 24th. So he wasn't even in there the whole time. So he had a brief, he had a 10 day stay. Ghost, you need a break, like, maybe go rob like a daycare or something, go mug one person. That's it. You can mug one person, but not violently. Steph. Get and then check back in. Steph. He does way worse than that. Way worse than that. What did he do? So he was back in the mental hospital again on May 24th and released on June 20th. But the mental hospital gave him a little weekend pass. Like, hey, people need a break. They need a break from the mental hospital. If you're so incredibly mentally unstable that you're supposed to go for a long time and never get out, you need a break at least once a week. Everyone knows that. So while he was on his weekend pass, he said, uh, I'm gonna blow this date. Hey, Oregon. I'm out. He, not a staycation, not a staycation. I don't know. I'm just thinking How many miles is it from Portland, Oregon to Sacramento? Let's look. We need to know. I feel like that would be a long drive. yeah, I've driven to Sacramento from here before but not from Portland. Eight to ten hours? What is it, 9 hours and 15 minutes. It's 579 miles. So this fuckin uh, I'm just gonna spend my week Quick weekend trip. I don't even go there on a weekend trip because you drive Who does that? Because that's, if you think of there and back, that's 20, it's almost a day of just travel. So whatever it would have to be would have to be worth it. Like, seeing someone, like, graduate college or some other big event. No, he had none of that in mind. Wedding, maybe. Nope. It wasn't any of those. It was just for a good old murder. And it wasn't spicy enough in his own state. He's like, I need, I need some different cuisine. While he was on a weekend pass, he traveled to Sacramento where he killed Vivian Grant Robinson. it. And before you get to me, I had to, this gentleman was named Vivian Grant Robinson, which I didn't know is a traditional. So I had to really look because there was different reports that said he and she, but it was definitely a man. And I just think some people assumed because Vivian. That's an elegant name. It is actually. I really. I do like the name Vivian, but, uh, a lot of, research that I looked into reported him, uh, his name as the Grant Robinson. So I'm assuming that he went by Grant, Grant Robinson was 50 when he was murdered. He was a tax auditor for the state tax board. Grant was dead for three days before he was found strangled in his home on June 15th of 1974. This is just five days. It's before Creech gets released from the mental hospital. So he had a mini vacay and then they're like, you know what? You did so great on your weekend. Why would we ever keep you here? Just, I know we told the warden and the sheriff and we got you, but you know, you're go clear your head. Get out of here. Very chill. Like the vibes immaculate. You can't be in here bud. Several belongings were stolen and his car was missing. Creech actually used the victim's phone to call the mental hospital to tell them he will be arriving back one day. Because when you're on an interstate murdering spree, it's exhausting. Well, and traffic can get really bad in that area. Yeah. And so, I think people really need to know, and people didn't have cell phones, so how courteous. How courteous to be like, I'm going to do my best. And what red flags does not raise for them, like where are you? You can, yeah, sure. A day, a week late? We give you a week and pass. Where did you go that you're going to be a whole day late? you're supposed to be like around the corner, and aren't you supposed to be in this county? Oh my gosh.

Dani 14:43

The murder was unsolved until Creech confessed in 1980. He said, I went on

Stephanie 14:50

a little trip. unsolved for, from when to when?

Dani 14:54

uh, 74 to 1980.

Stephanie 14:58

Oh my gosh. So they, they're just like this vag, this vagabond. They have no idea even who he is. Somebody

Dani 15:04

just murdered this poor man. when the fingerprints were compared, uh, creatures matched the ones found at the crime scene. So, once he confessed, cause you know. And what are the chances? I don't know. No, he, and they did not have the tools we have now. There was, there would have been a lot more. Yeah. Creech was discharged from the hospital on June 20th, 1974. His doctor, Dr. Sessions, stated Creech should not have a psychiatric illness and the hospital was under no obligation to hold him. She said that he was very pleasant, cooperative, and got along with staff and other patients. But the FBI was consulted before his release. Ohio got screwed, and this man is out murdering. He has to have some kind of a narcissistic, anyway, I'm not. The FBI is already involved and they're like, this guy's vibes are off the chain, he's treated all of us great, so, he can go. But not Mr., yeah, but not Mr. Robinson and, um, Two, are we at two now? Yes. Okay. You don't even know what's coming. It's ridiculous. This is escalating very quickly. Two by seventy four. So, in the beginning of August of seventy four, Creech started working as a sexton for St. Mark's Episcopal Church in Portland. Go ahead. Please tell me

Stephanie 16:40

what it is. Because. We have to stop on that because I have never heard that term. I might have heard it, but I've never understood that.

Dani 16:49

Um, I was waiting, but I did look it up. It is a custodian or janitor for a church. Um, he only worked there for two weeks when he quit. Stellar. After the body of a man was found in his living quarters. I don't think he quit. I, this was like a no show, right? No call, no show. He's like, yeah, I accidentally

Stephanie 17:21

might have left that body there and now I, I know that there isn't any way that they're going to continue my employment.

Dani 17:29

So I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna go. No call, no show. NCNS on the record. I'm writing that down. William J. Dean, 22, was shot on August 14th of 1974. As a friendly reminder, he has not even been out of the hospital for a month.

Stephanie 17:52

Very determined, very motivated.

Dani 17:55

Uh, well, and he, he, he killed that man, Robinson on June 15th. So we're talking less than 30 days, he's racking up another Well, and I just don't understand. Even, like, you think

Stephanie 18:13

of how many bad interactions you might have with people that Could lead you to like

Dani 18:19

a rage type of or a self defense how often are people getting in these type of confrontations?

Stephanie 18:29

Because is he the problem? No, the mental hospital said he was pleasant and polite It couldn't it couldn't

Dani 18:39

ever be him. Oh this poor kid William J. D. Had not been in Portland long when he was murdered William and his brother lived in Sweet Home, Oregon, which is not far from, it's not far from Portland. Uh, but they lived there from March to, to July, excuse me, when he left Sweet Home to take a job setting chokers in Alaska. Go ahead and ask.

Stephanie 19:10

I've, I've worn a choker before. They're coming

Dani 19:13

back. But what do chokers have to do with Alaska? I, I don't know. I looked it up and I forgot. I think it's something to do with logging. I think. It has something to do with setting chain, I don't know, but don't hold me to that because I looked it up and it's, it's in, it's out. So I did not make notes because I thought for sure, I'll remember that. No, I, I did not. but this, gentleman, William, had called his parents and they were expecting him to arrive by bus back home a week before he was found dead. He had phoned his parents stating he was coming home. He's like, Alaska life isn't for me. Peace. And so he was, I'm assuming he was waiting, like buses aren't running every day, right? He doesn't have a car. No, especially not in Alaska. You're flying into, you're flying from Alaska, Anchorage to Portland. He probably has to wait for the bus that goes to, I think it's Astoria, is where his, his parents lived. William was found on August 17th, three days after he was shot. He was found by another janitor when he was trying to locate where a foul smell was coming from. Oh, that even makes me more mad. Yeah. A large caliber pistol was used to shoot him in the chest. There was no other physical abuse found. William was able to be identified using FBI fingerprints. William and his brother were arrested for possession and cultivation of the marijuana in June of 74. Which is just, he had a FBI Fingerprints, so they were watching him for that. Yeah for growing a little pot, which ironic Totally illegal to grow pot in Oregon now. Multi million dollar businesses now The cases were pending at the time of his death for the marijuana possession and cultivation. They make it sound like it's Police said he was most likely killed at the church but did not rule out the possibility it occurred somewhere else and then he was moved.

Stephanie 21:36

I don't see how they wouldn't know, like, a large caliber pistol, I mean, it's the 70s Well, we're going to find this, you're

Dani 21:44

going to hear the story here in a little bit about what happened. For them not to know, it just, law enforcement, just does not make me happy in the 70s. No. the same day William was found at the church, Creech had walked into a Salem, Oregon convenience store and shot 21 year old Sandra Razumush. Same day. That he was, so it's three days later, the day that they found the body and like, oh, this guy was living here.

Stephanie 22:26

Where's

Dani 22:26

he at? They

Stephanie 22:27

found the body. It's probably around the town and he's like. Yeah, I'm gonna murder someone about this. This is very stressful for

Dani 22:34

me. I gotta go do a murder about it. Sandra, a Hawaiian native, was living at home with her parents and her new husband. She was just married in June. Just married. She hadn't been married two months. Her co worker said she was vibrant and full of life. She was shot in the chest in the storage room of the Circle K she worked at on a Saturday afternoon. Just a regular Saturday afternoon at a Circle K. No motive, no robbing, no nothing. Hey, Dr. Sessions. What do you think of your patient now? A customer had come into the store and saw the cash register open, and after investigating, found Sandra in the storage room. And this just, this part breaks my heart. Her father was a zone manager for the Circle K chain. So, hey, hey kiddo, what do you think? Need a job. Guaranteed job. I'm gonna, I'm gonna help you out here. Let's find you a store here close to home that needs some help. So just a little light robbery, but just to do this on a, on an afternoon, on a weekend. In a Circle K. Circle K. Do we even have any more here? There might be one. I used to go there religiously with my mom. she had the Circle K cup, You go in. The refillable cup? Yes, you refill it. Like the big 44? Yes. Yeah. Mountain Dew, all the way. Ready to go. And, so, I mean, we would stop, we would walk there after school. Don't, don't shoot people in a circle K for 50 bucks out of the register. If that was even the intent. The register was open, but he probably, most likely, maybe. I'm going to actually, I'm going to say, he did not have to kill her to steal that money. He had a large gun. Is she going to fight him? She'd just give him the money. That's, isn't that like the biggest rule with that, like, working in a convenience store? Now it is, but I mean, especially, if your dad's in the industry, like, you have to think that they'd be like, don't lose your life over 200 in a till. Right. We love you. We like you. Don't do that. Just give him the money. He was just Creech was being a dick and you're gonna see it. Here we go. Big man in town. Oh, he's not. He is a fucking coward. I'm sorry. I just, I know, I, I, I Researched this and I know where this goes and so the level of disdain that I have for this man Is at a much higher level than you probably have right now. So yeah, I don't know if being concussed at a young age is Excusing Any of this. No.

Stephanie 25:45

Alright, vodka, vodka. Vodka, vodka. Dangle, dangle. In September, Creech met Carol Spalding in Fresno, California. The couple traveled to Kentucky and then back to Lewiston, Idaho, where they lived with Spaulding's mother for a short time. On November 5th, Creech murdered Edward Thomas Arnold, 34, and John Wayne Bradford, 40, in Donley, Idaho. The men were traveling while searching for work as painters. Carol Spaulding was with Creech when the murders took place. Both victims were shot with a 22 automatic weapon that was stolen from Carol's mother's home in Lewiston. Class act. Class act, this guy. Creech and Spaulding were seen earlier in the day trying to sell a battery charger for gas and beer money. I don't know how much a battery charger was worth in the 70s. Or if it was a prized commodity. It sounds very desperate. That's for sure. Okay. I just. That, that's my feeling. Edward was found shot in the temple and John was shot three times in the head. Both men were found off the highway covered under sleeping bags and blankets in a barrow pit. So they were tucked in. In the ditch, essentially. In the ditch. The Barrow. Don't know the reasoning behind that either. It seems very careless. Very They weren't trying to hide shit! I mean, it was fall. They're probably hoping like, if we just cover it up nicely with a blanket then snow. I don't think he was trying. I don't think it was on purpose based on other decisions, but that, you know. He's a sloppy murderer who got lucky, and he's just. I think Carol tucked him in. I don't think he had anything to, I think Carol's like, shouldn't we at least cover the bodies? These bodies are just bodying out here. Possibly. So I, I, I, I feel like Carol saw this and was like, should we meet, at the very least. Cause you know, women. We're just gonna leave that? I mean, I feel like we could do a little bit more. Ugh. After Creech murdered the men, they slept in the dead man's car, a 1955 Buick, at Cougar Mountain Lodge. The couple ran out of gas trying to keep warm. And I don't know where they, how they got away from there, but they ended up in Glens Ferry. Maybe hitchhiking, that was so popular. It was very popular. Both men were found dead just a few hours after the car was impounded by the sheriff. hopefully they realized it was tit for tat, but, you know, like, Oh, there's just an abandoned car in the middle of winter and we found dead men. Connect those dots, maybe, hopefully. The couple ended up in Glens Ferry, Idaho. Which is like two, at least two, if not three hours away from where they were. So they had to have hitchhiked. they ended up in Glens Ferry, Idaho where they met Dr. Steven P. Rivers. The couple approached him while at a rest stop outside of Boise and asked if they could warm up in his car. He allowed them to get in the car and later agreed that they could accompany him to Salt Lake City. Creech stayed in the car sleeping while Spalding went to a Glens Ferry cafe to get a cup of coffee. Where the policemen recognized her. Uh oh. I don't understand this part, but they let him get in the car, because they were pulled over with guns drawn, and the pair was arrested. Oh, isn't that somebody we're looking for? Let's just let them Sorry. I could, I, I'm just, the law enforcement So they let them get in what car? Their own car? No. The doctor's car. Who was letting them hitchhike to Salt Lake with them? That man is so lucky. Yeah, he would have been out of there. I think he would have been dead. In November of 1974. We're still in the same year. Creech tried to commit suicide with a broken piece of mirror. He had slashed his, slashed his wrists. Police were spending a lot of time talking with Creech and, um, about his crimes. And this led him to search for other victims. And the only reason I'm, I comment on the committing suicide is because, it's It's a theme. He sounds like it. Um, so wait, he did this in jail or? Yeah, while he was in jail. In jail. This is at least the second time he's done this. Right. Um, to get out of a sticky situation. I feel like it's a very like, Oh, I'm in trouble. And I, and he probably does. And he was released. This is the first time he slit his wrist. He went to a mental hospital. This is what they were like, of course he can have vacation. Right, and then he had his little, I do think, slaycation, if you will. Yeah. Ooh. Slaycation. It was horrible. So I do think that he, he is doing this to, in my opinion, based on, on what goes on, you know, throughout his, his life while in prison. I do think he's doing it as an attention seeking Um, diverting type of situation where, Oh, I'm just going to try to hurt myself and maybe the parole board won't care. Maybe they won't care if, like he's, and it's worked and it has worked for him. He thought to go to basically a resort at the, like, maybe not a resort, but a place that was like, you could leave. Sure. Yeah. Oh, you want a weekend pass to go kill people? You're going to stay here for less than three months and then let's, we're going to let you go. So, if it had worked before, why wouldn't you do it again? Uh, the police were spending a lot of time talking with Creech about his crimes. This led them to search for other victims. One such expedition was on May 4th, 1975. We moved into a new unit. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Officials took Creech, took Creech to Nevada to look for eight additional murder victims near Bakersfield, California, that Creech claimed to murder. When no bodies were found, they headed back to Idaho when the plane they were traveling on tried to land. The emergency landing came after either. I've read it both ways. One of the officers blacked out from lack of oxygen. Does that even happen? Maybe if it's not pressurized, right? Or because of heavy snow. But they ended up crashing on a muddy road. During the later trial, testimony was presented that a sheriff's gun had become loose. That's exactly what you want in that situation with the serial killer. Sure. An uncuffed creech, gently holding it

Dani 33:41

handed the gun back to the sheriff. He said, Sheriff, here's your weapon back. Uncuffed. Because, you want to give that flight experience. First class, baby. All the way. I murdered all these people. And was there a champagne welcome? Did he have a lay flat seat? That's really what's important here. Did he get a pillow? Blanket? Did he get pajamas and slippers? This is what the, if I'm taking a suspected murderer in a plane, he's gonna be handcuffed. Don't give a shit about your comfort, buddy. Don't give a fuck. Sorry about it. I mean, do you think if they had found eight people dead like he had claimed, that he would have been cuffed? I kind of don't think so. Well, and I mean as much as you don't want an inmate being able to hurt you from the back of a car, From the back of a plane is immensely more serious. Like, let's be real. No, don't cuff him. It's, you know how hard it is to be on a plane in a cramped seat and be cuffed, like, too much. Please. Stop. In June, 1975, Creech's cellmate was taken to the hospital with facial injuries after an altercation. Officers would not release any other details due to the gag order in place. And in July, Creech filed a 1. 8 million lawsuit against a statement print company for publicity adverse to his trial. Creech claimed his six amendment rights were violated, which provides for a speedy impartial trial by an impartial jury. The publicity caused his trial to be moved to another county, therefore losing a speedy trial. It was later dismissed on August 5th. He's just grabbing for straws. He's just And one attorney was like, Oh, I'll write this up for you. On August 5th, Creech was divorced after a two year marriage to a 19 year old Thomasine Lorene Creech. Cause she was in and then out of this story. Yeah, they were married. And then he was with Carol and But if he'd been married to her for two years, she was 17. she had died while she was a patient at the Oregon State Hospital. Thomasine? Yeah. On August 12th, Creech suffered a head injury and was taken to the hospital. He apparently fell from his bunk and required stitches. Just the theme rolling. In October. Can we just appreciate for a half a second how efficient the court system was? we see people sitting in jail for years and years before. How long has Koberger been in? Two years? I think at least two years. Yeah. This is less than a year. They're like, no, come see us. We're going to trial. Which I appreciate, by the way. Like, let's get this thing rolling. In October, the trial for the murder of Tom and John began. The prosecution stated Creech admitted several times to the killings. He stated once he was trying to protect Carol Spalding, once trying to protect himself. After the plane crash that he had in May, he again stated he was responsible for the killings. The shell casings found in the 1955 Buick matched the test fired shells to the gun that he had stolen from Carol's mom. Both victims though had a B, a C over point 0.08. One was 0.14 and one was 0.195. Not a fan of the drinking and driving, I just think that that's how he took advantage of these people. Yeah, they didn't have all their wits about him. And it sounds like he was good at making fast friends and gaining trust quickly to get into a position where he could do that. Dr. Sessions thought he was awesome. On Saturday, October 11th, Carol's Balding testified. After 10 minutes worth of testimony, Creech's attorney said she needed her own attorney. Judge Ducey handed down his decision that he, she will need her own attorney to avoid self incrimination. Which, good for that judge, like, it's, yeah, this isn't good. She was granted immunity for her testimony. She had to run from the, she had run from the scene, but she said Creech had threatened her. Carol testified she saw Creech shoot the two men and added they never pulled a knife or attempted to rape her. All right. While stopped for a bathroom break for Carol, Creech shot both men in the car. She stated that Mr. Arnold had put his arms around her and placed his hand on her breast. Creech tried to kill another inmate while in the Ada County Jail. The inmate was in for statutory rape of his 13 year old niece. Palmer also stated Creech tried to escape twice while in the Ada County Jail. Who? It's just escaping all the time. Stop court was held on a Saturday because they had moved the trial up north. They said because he couldn't get, they, you know, his attorney had fought that they couldn't get a fair trial down here and then, um, or they couldn't get a, a fair trial in Valley County due to the publicity down here in the valley. So it got moved up to. I want to say it was Whitebird, but it got moved up north to this tiny little place. So they had all these people sequestered, just nothing to do. Nothing to do. And the judge said, y'all ain't doing anything. He said, you ain't doing anything. Court was held on Saturday because Judge Dursey stated that the sequestered jury had nothing to do but sit around anyway. Maybe they wanted to lay around and watch TV. Move it along. You're not even allowed to watch TV. Oh shit. You can go into, and listen, this was the 70s, but um, They're not going to Blockbuster. Even like 80s, 90s, you could go into a group room and watch a VHS. Absolutely no TV. No antenna TV, no cable TV. Pick a VHS and watch it in the room with Maybe, maybe they just wanted to read a book and not listen to this crazy guy. I would, I'd be like They can do that on Sunday. I don't know. when Creech did, uh, take the stand in his own defense, Ha ha ha ha ha ha. Let's just prove what an idiot he is. Ha ha ha ha. Are you ready, Steph? He claimed he killed as many as, Take a guess. Seven. Forty two people. Many times more. But, but not these guys. So yeah, I didn't murder any of those ones. But I did. You murdered people. So if I'm confessing to all of these murderers, You should know I'm absolutely telling you the truth when I did not kill these men that I'm on trial for. Shut the f With outlandish stories of satanic cults and mob hits. Ugh.

Stephanie 42:04

He was really getting into it. He was. 42. This was the flavor of the panicky things. So okay, this is going to be a lot. A lot of 42 people. Give me the breakdown. Boom, boom, boom. I'm going to give you, Prosecutors have stated that most of the satanic cult stuff came almost word for word from a May 1974 Playboy article. Got his hand on a nudie mag and was like, this is my out. This is my out! If Hugh Hef says it's down, people are going to love this. Creech said he committed his first murder at the age of 17. When he drowned a friend in Ohio, he stated he drowned his friend because he thought he was responsible for the death of creature's girlfriend at the time of an auto accident. Then he claimed he killed a homosexual man by beating him to death in San Francisco. I hate that he said that about a human being, but it's the kind of a cop out at that point. And he beat'em to, he beat'em to death. Brutal. Oh, disgusting. But he didn't kill these guys. The, these are just his stories. So is he like talking to jail mates and be like, everyone gather around. Gave me a roster. Who'd you kill? Yeah, I'll just, for, it'll be a win-win. It'll be a win-win. I'll take, I'll take responsibility. It'll get me off of these murders because they're like, I didn't kill those guys in Donley. And then also someone else could confess to your crime. So we go cheat. Let's go. Five more were killed on murder contracts set out by the president of a motorcycle gang in Ohio. Man, well he, Creech claimed he was elected the national enforcer by the gang. What a title. National. I mean he was a traveler. So they're like, this guy will get on a bus, he'll, what's your title, any, I'm a national enforcer. All of them. Then, he went from being a national enforcer of a motorcycle gang to being a president of a national motorcycle gang in Southern California. Presidente. then he, you know, claimed he killed a man while in the Hell's Angel gang, named Ski in 78. Oh, Ski. I just, isn't motorcycle gangs like, you're in? You're just in. I don't know that you can be part of multiple. Or just jump around. But there's more. He claimed he killed Carrie Whitesell outside of Hamilton, Ohio in the early 70s and six more people in Kentucky and Ohio. This is already a lot of people that Like, where would you find the time? He's been very fucking Well, he's worldwide. Nationwide. On your side. Creech claimed killing Tom Carrey in February of 73 in California at another in Victorville, California named Sanchez. I would just like to remind you he was in prison until 73. And he was arrested in 74. So just keep in mind the short timeline because he didn't get out on parole from Ohio for the original, unarmed robbery. I don't know if you could travel that fast back then. The thumb was working. oh, and he claimed to, and also in 1973, he killed another in Victorville, California named Sanchez. He, followed that up with two other identified men later that year in California. He's pulling shit out of his ass. In 74, he did admit to killing Vivian Grant Robinson and claimed another motorcycle gang member named JoJo in California. More victims claimed were Joe Daga from Seattle, so now he's in Washington, Jesus, David Cranio of Seattle, and while living in Beaver, Utah, he had killed a businessman in Colorado and another in Salt Lake City. I'm done. We're going to another state now. He also claimed to kill a man named Red at a Wyoming dude ranch. Red could be the victim named Ryogle Stewart McKenzie. He was found in Baggs, Wyoming on February 13, 1975. He was identified by fingerprints. Creech claims that he shot him in August of 74. he also killed Charles Miller in Nevada and Larry Johnson near Baggs, Wyoming. Charles Thomas Miller was from Vegas and is one of the 11 known victims of Creech. So for sure known, 11. So he's sprinkling in. He is telling some truth, but also telling lots of lies. Yeah. Lots of lies. This is like physically impossible. I was unable to locate any information for this victim. His age and hometown are unknown. Creech claimed he was a backup hitman to kill a man named Stanton. He was to kill the hitman after the hitman killed Stanton. Now, Stanton, was Age 44 was missing since August of 74, before his body was found three months later on Information given by Creech. So this one is attributed the, this is one that counts'cause he knew where the body was. Gordon was a part salesman for Reynolds Electrical and a union organizer. His body was found 65 miles north of Las Vegas, scattered skeletal remains were used to identify him. Police had found a vehicle in the area in August of 74. But towed it away because they thought it was abandoned. There's so many abandoned vehicles. And their owners, we can't find them either, but that's surely not related. Should we maybe reach out? Say, hey, we found your car. People just leave their cars places and they're just out gallivanting. And if their family says they haven't seen them, eh. They were probably on rollerblades. He also claimed there he killed three members of the Banditos Motorcycle Club in New Mexico in the summer of 74. Summer of 74, what a wild time. God, this guy's off his rocker. John Boy Voren in October of 74 in Barstow, California. Creech said he was murdered because Voren had killed an elderly couple without authorization. He is living in some motorcycle gang dream, vivid imagination. he also claimed to kill Tom, Jerry Sage, and his wife in October of 74. There's more. Two newscasters in Missoula, Montana, and no one would have heard about that. Nobody. In the late summer of 74. Jeff Oswald, also in Missoula. The Missoula murders were all contract killings, he claimed. I just, yeah, if newscasters are getting killed, murdered, with no I think it'd make the news. Investigation. I mean, I mean, our weather guy, here, He stubbed his toe one time. It was a full week story. Yes. I'm just, this is exhausting. It really is. Another Banditos member, Walter Chief Henshaw, Missoula. Not Walt. Three more for good measure in satanic rituals in Auden, Utah, Tulsa, Oklahoma, and Wichita, Kansas. Where has this man not been? Nobody's this interesting. Nobody's like, I, yeah, I am in a Satanic cult and also part of every motorcycle gang across the United States, which spans thousands of miles. And I'm also their number one, what was his job title? National Enforcer. I am the number one national enforcer for somehow all of the gangs, which you would think the gangs would be. So, I don't know how there's one, but sure. Totally believable. The Sheriff Palmer. I just, I wonder at what point his attorney was like, I think he probably was doing it after like four. He's like, Shut the fuck up. He's looking at his dates. He's like, Stop. I'm looking at my dates. I'm like, Stop. Physically. I mean, and some of them are a maybe. I guess if it all went right and you had. Someone take you personally? You weren't riding a greyhound? Sure. Maybe. No, I'm sure his, I'm sure his attorney was stressed to the max of like nightmare client. Like this is, why are you doing a strategy? This isn't your job. This is my job. He might have thought him a nightmare client, but you wouldn't know it by his actions. Was he really, really like 10 toes down for his client? He's like, This man, innocent, he wouldn't hurt a fly except for those 42 people, those 42 people and the other ones that he also admitted to and then was never really prosecuted and everyone forgot about. So he did not kill those gentlemen in Donley. Why would he do that? That's so unlike him. During the trial, the sheriff Palmer said Creech was very convincing and that's why he conducted some of those searches based off his claim. You know what? Because you're like, well, we don't know what to believe and what not to. And so I just don't think, look, and maybe cause it was the seventies. If somebody told me this shit, like, Oh, you were, I would love to see somebody with training in law enforcement. Now, do that interview. Like, even like, you're, no, like really, how did you get from Kentucky to Portland back to Kentucky in the same day? And please tell me how you were all these motorcycle gangs and they trusted you. Like, yeah, who appointed you this enforcer? so, the sheriff was like, yeah, he's, he is, uh, very convincing. Uh, he said, like, on the May 4th trip to California, Creech had stated his mother was buried in a mine in California and that he wanted to be there when her body was found. Fun fact, though. In a mine. Creech's mother, at the time of the trial, had been missing for over a year. So they're like, maybe this is it, too, guys. Sheriff Palmer stated that that was the reason he had lied about the mass grave. Creech stated he was only ranked number eight among the paid killers for the unnamed motorcycle gang Despite the 42 murders. So not even gold silver or bronze. How do you get in the top three? I, I want to know. How do you get in the top three? It, Especially if Creech is thinking this is all real. He probably thinks that he should be the national champion like, But he's only ranked eight. That must be disappointing. If I was ranked eighth in anything, I'd be like, I'm, this is not my gig. Well, and out of how many? Was there nine of them? Maybe there was only eight. I was ranked eight, but it was a national competition. Keep that in mind, national. You know how many states we have? You know how many regions we have? Don't, they're like, there's eight of eight of your position. I don't seen Olympians coming home and saying, I ranked eighth. You're not going for the gold Cree, Ugh, loser He's just so ridiculous. Creech stated that he did not kill Paul Schrader in Arizona, but he was there. He was there and he was paid$1,500 for providing information on Paul Schrader. For what? He's a fat male. Creech said a man named Sanchez killed Schrader, and said later that he had killed him. Hit man for the hit man. There's, I feel like he's just pulling out names out of his ass, because I feel like Sanchez has been mentioned several times. It's like pulling a, like, his name was John Smith. He did admit to killing Sanchez out of those 42 people, but I wonder if he was asked to repeat this story, if he could even do it. There's a lot. So he was the backup to the backup Anyway in earlier confessions. He he stated he was paid as much as 10, 000 For providing information on Paul Schrader. The psychiatrist testifying for the defense said Creech did not suffer from a significant mental defect or disease. That's a little backfired. I really think that that's what they were trying to do here with the cutting the wrists and the, yeah, like clearly this man is living in a fantasy world. Right. That was their whole defense. After seven hours of deliberation, Creech was convicted on October 25th, 1975. On March 25th, 1976, Creech was sentenced to death by hanging. That conviction was commuted to a life sentence as a result of the July 1976 Supreme Court ruling. So they, they said that it was, the death penalty was off, yeah, off the table. Idaho did appeal that decision and it just, it sits, right? Like these things just sit and you're going to see that carry through. While in prison, Creech worked as a janitor. Assistant. He has Going back to his roots. He has experience. despite two prosecutors that warned the warden that he was a threat to other inmates. Because when you, when you get, that's like a special job in prison. Yeah, because you get access. You get to be out. Cleaning agents. Yes. It's out and about when others aren't. Not great. Not great for someone who probably killed 11, but it says that they killed 42. but he was an experienced, so they said, let's go with that. They're like, you've, you've wiped down the table before. You got this, bro! You know what a wash rag is? Incredible.

Dani 58:02

In January 1977, Creech claimed he'd rather die than live his life out in prison. In February, he wrote to the Idaho State Penitentiary Warden Anderson and Idaho Supreme Court Justice McFadden that if this appeal is not heard soon, he wants the death sentence carried out. Being on death row is driving him crazy, because Idaho is appealing that 76th Supreme Court ruling saying, Nope, no hanging. They're like, we can't hang people alive. So he's like, let's just get this over with, is what Creech is asking. He just wants to die. He said being on death row is quote, driving him crazy. In December, his attorney, Robinson, asked that Creech be set free. He argued that his conviction should be void because he was convicted under unconstitutional law. So this is the part where I'm like, like, his attorney's like, yeah, nah. In 1978, Dewey Napier was hospitalized after Creech, his cellmate, stabbed him in the chest, groin, and right shoulder with a steak knife. How, an actual steak knife? A steak, I mean, I don't think a butter knife, a plastic fork wasn't gonna do that. This is insane that they're like, of course we give our inmates steak knives. They have steaks sometimes. How are you going to eat a steak? You bite it not on it. It's like jerky bitch. You're not, you're not getting, you can't tell me you're getting like a medium rare steak anyway. It's probably like a hockey puck and it's probably like meat that's expired. Yeah. Like no, you get to, you get to eat it. Like And who's getting, what are they really getting? Steak in prison. Okay. The seventies. In January of 1979, Idaho's Supreme Court ruled that he could not be executed. Creech said he still, Creech said that he did not believe in the death penalty. And when asked why, he stated, quote, I don't know. He's a genius. A mystery. Creech was still facing three murder charges in Oregon and California. During his trial for the Idaho murders, Creech admitted to killing Dean. But claimed it was in self defense. This is the gentleman that was in the church. Thank goodness, at least he admitted that. He said Dean was involved with, well, you, you think like good. Oh, he admitted it. Okay, that one's one and done. No, he said that Dean was involved with the pushing of his former wife Thomasine out of a window at an organ mental hospital. February of 79, he was officially sentenced to those two consecutive life terms for the murders in Idaho. So Creech asked to be tried on the murder charges in Oregon. Okay. A written request on March 14th started the six month deadline for Oregon to try him under an interstate compact with Idaho. If not tried within that time frame, the charges would be dropped. To me, this sounds like him being Mr. National. We can't call him Mr. International like Pitbull. He's Mr. National though. I mean, he's, he's traveling across the country. I feel like he's itching for that life. He's like, He wants a vacay. You want to try me in Kentucky? I'll write a letter to the judge and say, New Mexico? Can you please try me Utah? Bye. I hear the Montana? Wait, was Wyoming? He's Wyoming? He's been everywhere. Can I please just drop past Yellowstone on my way? I mean, I just, I just want to ask the court to try me there. Because I may have done some murders a time or two, or 17. Oops! So, Creech was returned to Oregon in April to face the charges. Because the death penalty did not exist in Oregon when both crimes were committed, he only faces life. I love how I say that. He only faces life. April 24th, he was in court for the indictment for the murder of Dean, where he pled not guilty. By August 7th, the trial is set to begin. But by July 24th, Creech is like, I'm out. He pled guilty. His attorney Descon Connell stated Creech pled guilty because he had to get out of the Rocky Beach L wasn't his jam. He said this hotel. What is this a Motel 6? I don't even get to be a janitor and Have steak knives here. There's no room service. No steak knives Creech was locked in a cell 23 and a half hours a day rightfully so His attorney said Creech pled guilty against his advice Preach. He's like, I don't care. I'll go. He's like, I don't think, I don't think you, I'm going to write up my next letter to a judge in a different state. This one clearly, I didn't, I didn't look at the reviews. I didn't look at it on Travelocity. I'll look next time. Do you want to try for something a little less than life? Yeah, fuck it. Let's go. I want a nice view, is what I want. Take me back to the Idaho. so Caridra's sentenced to his third life term in August for the murder of Dean. So, back in 74, Jean Alvin Hilby was arrested as an accomplice for Dean's murder. But the charges were dismissed. He confessed to burying the rifle at Creech's request after he shot Dean. He ended up pleading guilty to hindering prosecution in the murder case. Gene Hilby testified to what happened that night Dean was killed. Hilby stated that he had only known Creech for two days before the murder. He met them through a woman, Linda Crandell, that was living with him and his wife. Damn. The, just the This poor guy is like, I need to check my references on my roommates. He's like, yeah, I did, I did bury a gun, but I, the guy was, I wouldn't bury a gun for nobody. The guy was super nice. My friends all loved him, like, I knew him for two, 48 hours, literally 48 hours. He's my bro. Super great guy. So his roommate, Linda Crandell, Linda, listen Linda, I couldn't help, I can't, I couldn't help. I called him at 2, called him at 230 in the morning on August 14th stating Creech was in trouble at the church. She said Creech had been stabbed by some bikers at the church and needed to go to the hospital. Of course. I mean, I'm surprised it wasn't a satanic

Stephanie 1:05:24

cult.

Dani 1:05:24

so Krecha called, said that he was in trouble at the church, so she called her roommate. The roommate's like, what's up? And she said, Biker gang. Biker gang. She said, Krecha been stabbed by some bikers at the church and needed to go to the hospital. Bikers at the church need hospital. How about 9 1 1 anyway? So he'll be drove to the church with a with his 30 30 rifle in his truck. This is just bad ideas if if you called me and said you were being stabbed by a motorcycle or Satanic cult gang slash whatever like why you call me for I'm gonna call 9 1 1. Where are you at? Not these guys. They're like, mm, I'm gonna take my gun over there and show them what's up. I imagine there was large amounts of drugs involved in some of these things. People might have been a smidge inebriated. So he takes his gun, his rifle, his

Stephanie 1:06:30

big ass

Dani 1:06:31

rifle, he's like, hey, I'm gonna go save this guy from the three bikers that have already stabbed him. He's

Stephanie 1:06:39

like, I've been waiting for this. I've always wanted to shoot someone with this. This is my chance.

Dani 1:06:44

Hilby drove to the church with his 30 30 rifle in his truck. Creech had met him in the front of the church. Creech was not stabbed, but said three bikers were still in his room. That's where they hang out. Is that a church? Everyone knows

Stephanie 1:07:00

that.

Dani 1:07:00

Biker gang, is

Stephanie 1:07:01

that

Dani 1:07:01

a

Stephanie 1:07:01

church?

Dani 1:07:01

Everyone. And he asked Hilby for the rifle, and he gave it to him. He said, Yeah, go take care of business, bro. A few minutes later, he saw a flash of light and heard a rifle shot. Who sent your friend in? Oh. But he was scared, and he drove away. Here's the gun. If anything goes down, though, I'm going to leave you here by yourself. But after a few minutes later, he returned to sea. If Creech was the one who'd been shot, I'm not going anywhere near there. If I leave, I'm out. Are you dead, though? I mean, like, he stole the gun out of my house when he was visiting Linda. Have no idea how he got, like, I'm not going back. I'm not going back. I'm not going there.

Stephanie 1:07:50

I'm like, it's 2. 30 in the morning. Click. Sleep is very important.

Dani 1:07:56

Call the authorities. he said Creech came out about ten minutes later, so he just leaves and he comes back and is just chillin out in front of the church. Cuz ten minutes later, Creech showed up, showing no emotion.

Stephanie 1:08:10

Where's the biker gang?

Dani 1:08:12

He took care of that shit. Showing no emotion, holding the weapon under his arm. Enforcer. National. Hilby then followed Creech into the church and saw the body of a man with a bullet hole in his chest sitting on the couch. There had to be drugs! I No, I'm not two days. I know you I wouldn't stuff. I love you I'd say I don't even remember your name, but I would not if you said I just shot somebody I mean like we need to call I'd say, don't say that over the phone,

Stephanie 1:08:50

don't say that to anyone, especially not me. Don't even tell me. I've known you for less than 50 hours. That's a no no. Less than 50 hours, don't admit to murder.

Dani 1:09:02

Don't take somebody, I would never give a gun to somebody. I would, first of all, I would never give a gun. Somebody 30 in the morning wanting a gun. It's not fucking

Stephanie 1:09:11

happening. Even if you did, I'd be like, no, That's very suspish. I'm going to have to hold off for a 30 day holding period. I don't care if you need it for like grouse or whatever or like, you're going to have to fill out a special paperwork because no, 2. 30 in the morning would throw you over the edge. I'd say, Danny, 30 day hold has started now. You're not borrowing any of our firearms.

Dani 1:09:36

On a sad note, in November of that year, his former wife, Thomasine, at the age of 23, Hung herself at the Oregon State Hospital. Twenty

Stephanie 1:09:47

three.

Dani 1:09:49

Yeah. So,

Stephanie 1:09:50

I feel like you probably, Thomasine probably was never ready to be married in the first place.

Dani 1:09:56

No, and I do believe that she had some mental issues, but it's just sad, you know, and then all of this stuff she's, I mean, that had to weigh on her, too, as well, that the man I was married to is a horrible person and doing all these things, but I think that she was mentally ill because she'd been in and out of the hospital. I mean, when she divorced him at 19, she was in the mental hospital.

Stephanie 1:10:21

So that's for that time that even speaks volumes that she was able to divorce him. No shit. I didn't even think of that. That's not easy. Those days. They're like, for what? Can you prove he tried to kill you or you can't just no fault divorce. I don't think maybe depending on the state, I don't know, but

Dani 1:10:43

I can tell you she couldn't have a credit card. Without her husband's permission. Anyway, don't even get me started. All right. the charge for the murder of Sandra Ramajews was dismissed. This pisses me off. County officials stated they were concerned about the cost of the trial. And stated that if three life sentences doesn't keep him behind bars, then there must be something wrong with the system.

Stephanie 1:11:14

Wow, what a

Dani 1:11:16

Poor parents and I want justice for my child, her poor husband, they've been married two months.

Stephanie 1:11:24

So

Dani 1:11:25

good on you, dude. You're going to save. This was

Stephanie 1:11:27

Circle K gal?

Dani 1:11:28

Yeah. That

Stephanie 1:11:29

he just blatantly shot. It pisses me off. People need to be proved to have done their crimes. Especially, it seems like this wasn't a very sneaky snag. Like

Dani 1:11:43

Do you feel that nowadays that that would not have happened? That they would have still tried them?

Stephanie 1:11:49

I think so. I do too.

Dani 1:11:50

but also don't you think that we're, that, um, prosecutors Are more victim forward now being more I just don't think that if somebody said that statement today, 50 years later, there would be outrage,

Stephanie 1:12:10

absolute

Dani 1:12:11

outrage.

Stephanie 1:12:12

Yeah. Okay. Little Jimmy, he got justice because it was an easy case. Little Kimmy though. I mean, we still have a good amount of. He's already convicted to life. What's the point? I don't think we would hear that now.

Dani 1:12:30

Anyways, 70s. Crazy times. Clearly. in January of 81 80s Oh, I'm sorry. I jumped ahead.

Stephanie 1:12:40

I'm excited.

Dani 1:12:41

Eighty. Nineteen eighty. Eighty. In June, Creech is transferred to California to face charges for the murder of Vivian Grant Robinson in Sacramento.

Stephanie 1:12:53

Sunshine State.

Dani 1:12:55

Right. Is this a nice Airbnb for him? This is the gentleman that was found dead in his home while on his, Weekend pass from the mental hospital. Judge Boscovich found Creech guilty in the suffocation death of Grant in September of that year. In January of 81, Creech was suspected of stabbing another inmate. Cause they're just giving steak nights! stop! Eugene Down, Downard in prison, but he was not charged. It's just a little stabbing. There's something, I don't know. Creech was still not placed in isolation because the wounds were not severe, said Warden Darrol. Gardner, can I just Darrol. It's spelled D A R R O L. This inmate downer was stabbed three times with a homemade tool in the arm, neck, and stomach. Nyeh.

Stephanie 1:13:52

That's a scratch. It's not an actual steak knife. We learned our lesson with those. But

Dani 1:13:58

he wasn't even placed in isolation! Never mind! There was no charges. They're like, maybe we shouldn't, uh, let this crazy fucking criminal create That

Stephanie 1:14:08

was very mean. There was actual blood and it was not okay. Now, let's continue with our regularly scheduled programming. And don't you ever do that again.

Dani 1:14:23

No more homemade tools. Stop doing that. I mean, at least it wasn't a steak knife.

Stephanie 1:14:32

Like, we used to give him butcher knives. We thought we lessened the blade, but okay. We gave him

Dani 1:14:38

machetes. Jesus. we're still in 81 in May, so, okay, I just want to just set this out again because I know the timeline. It's a lot. We're doing 50 years here. So, in January of 81. Suspected of stabbing another inmate, well he did, he did suspected, they just never went with it because he's like, eh, it's not a big deal. so, five months later in May, Creech murdered David Dell Jensen in the Idaho State Prison. And

Stephanie 1:15:12

this

Dani 1:15:12

is 82? No, 81. Five months later. Damn. Creech and Jensen argued earlier in the day at lunch over spilt food. Because Creech was the janitor. Right? Which he should have never had that. No!

Stephanie 1:15:33

Regardless.

Dani 1:15:34

Ugh. So, Creech was a janitor at the prison. Jensen was just three months into a three year sentence for grand larceny at the time. He stole some things. He's a kid! Jensen was originally serving his sentence in Bonneville County, and then transferred to the Minimum Security North Idaho Correctional Institute at Cottonwood in March. Cottonwooood. Jensen. Jensen. Jensen. Jensen escaped from Cottonwood on March 24th. Get it Jensen. To only be captured one day. I'm sorry. How are so many people just escaping out of jail in the 70s?

Stephanie 1:16:19

I would be so serious with people of having a plan, I feel like they get out and they never, maybe they didn't expect to get out. And so then they're like, Um, whoops, this worked. Um, I mean,

Dani 1:16:35

it's no Shawshank Redemption, but Jesus, like, how are people just escaping all the time?

Stephanie 1:16:42

Not as secure as, it's, at that time, I feel like it was a lot the image of, there's bars here, there's cement here, what could you ever do? People were like, give me 20 years to think about it. And a poster of hot women, and I'm gonna just, and a spoon, and a pocket, done. I'll find a way out. No, they, they thought that your mind would just be like a flat line. What else can you think about? It's just, I'm sorry I'm giggling, but it's just, it just, there was a lot of escapes because they thought that it could just be like the smoke and mirrors,

Dani 1:17:20

So he was captured one day later. So then they had to take him to the maximum security prison, Idaho State Prison. Now you're

Stephanie 1:17:33

in big trouble.

Dani 1:17:34

You're big time, buddy. Warden Gardner said two guards supervised the 50 maximum security inmates at any one time. During exercise times, the guards can't monitor both the exercise yard and the cell from the guard station. I think that was Whose

Stephanie 1:17:53

problem is that?

Dani 1:17:54

A design flaw? That's a staffing problem that you were trying to save money. The unit is not designed for constant supervision. Then what is a maximum security prison designed for, if not constant supervision?

Stephanie 1:18:10

Is this a playpen? Is this a pack and play? We can't staff that many people at a pack and play. Are you out of your mind?

Dani 1:18:20

Jensen was assaulted in the exercise yard. Just the week before he was killed, Jensen had told his father on a cell phone call. That he had seen the light and didn't want to spend the rest of his life like this. He stated he's going to do something different. Dammit Jensen, I'm sorry. Fuck you, Creech. He's just a fucking kid.

Stephanie 1:18:43

Like you just murdered all these people out there and now you got to murder all these people that you know are in for the pettiest of crimes compared. I'm

Dani 1:18:53

going to talk a little bit about, about Jensen. His family described him as a gentle soul and a prankster who loved hunting and spending time outdoors. Who is the peanut butter to his sister's jelly. I thought that was so sweet. His daughter, who was four when he was killed, has stated how she had never gotten to know him, and how unfair it was that Creech is still around when her father isn't. As a child, David Jensen loved hunting and fishing with his dad. His parents divorced when he was ten. And his mother moved to Pennsylvania with his three sisters while he stayed with his dad in Idaho. That was kind of a very common thing, I think, like boys stay with dads, girls goes with moms back in the day. He only saw his mother two times in the next eight years. At age 17, he and another teenage girl stole a car and drove it to Texas. Overachiever! Idaho to Texas! That's a big Point of drive. Yeah. but on the way back to Idaho, they had to break into a gas station, probably money, I'm just thinking. Something. Gas money. And they were caught. both teenagers were released on probation. Can you imagine nowadays, somebody stealing a car and getting out on probation? No. Like, ah, kids being kids. Kids steal a car sometimes. Drive to Texas. Break into it. You

Stephanie 1:20:23

can steal one, maybe seven cars. That's it.

Dani 1:20:27

Then they broke into the gas station. so they were released on probation. David quit school his senior year and worked odd jobs until he lost them due to arrests and jailing for shoplifting and auto theft. He was out there

Stephanie 1:20:44

doing some crime. Be a little

Dani 1:20:45

mischievous. in 1976, David's mother committed suicide. So, I mean, he, he's, he's lived a life. Like, he's, not

Stephanie 1:20:56

at all.

Dani 1:20:58

Two months after his mother committed suicide, David shot himself in the head while playing Russian roulette while his girlfriend and other teenagers watched. He survived the shot to his head. That's happened to someone I know. But had to have a third eye surgery. Part of his brain removed and a metal plate was installed to protect his brain. He was sent to the state hospital for mental treatment, but the hospital discharged him. Jensen was then sentenced to three months for stealing a car in Utah and another time in Pocatello, Idaho. He was in and out of jail, and was also sent back to the state hospital. So he's just, he, he's lost.

Stephanie 1:21:45

But he's not lost, like, Oops. Accidentally tripped into a murder No. Six times

Dani 1:21:51

in a year. I mean, I, I shouldn't say this is harmless stuff, but I feel like it's very adolescent stuff and he's had a hard life. Mm-Hmm. And now, and he was getting caught a lot where it's like, let's,

Stephanie 1:22:02

let's refine our methods maybe. Right?

Dani 1:22:05

But also to have a third of your brain, or, I mean, I know he was up to no, you know, be mischievous, but then how do you, how I, how do you function? At a full capacity, with a third of your brain removed, like I think that that would affect. Yeah, I don't see how it couldn't. he was then convicted for another auto theft and sent to state prison. This is how all of this started. with him being up at Cottonwood and coming back down, you know, coming down here to the maximum security. Davis family said he should have never been placed around violent criminals. Agreed. Jensen died from contusions and lacerations to the brain, said the Ada County coroner. Jensen had just turned 23 four days before he was killed. So young. Right. Creech stated that Jensen had tried to attack him with a sock filled with batteries. Creech took it away from him. Jensen then went to his cell and returned with a toothbrush with a razor blade tape to it. Jensen lugged a Creech. Again, and Creech hit Jensen with a sock between his eyes. The sock broke and the batteries went all over the floor. The plate and Jenssen's skull was crushed. While Jensen was on the ground, bleeding and helpless. Creech kicked him in the throat and the head Jensen was later found by a guard and taken to the hospital where he succumbeded to his injuries and died. So I, I don't know, in my research, if I believe all, I mean,'cause this is Creech stating. So I'm not sure. It's just

Stephanie 1:23:49

funny to me that this other Jensen like never had really violent stuff at all and now all of the sudden he's attacking people

Dani 1:24:00

there was some rumor around there that he was irritated at Jensen for leaving a mess and that because he was a janitor. I just don't, look, I don't think that 23 year old would be aggressive to a fucking serial killer, who should not have been the janitor.

Stephanie 1:24:24

Exactly.

Dani 1:24:25

Creech pled innocent in May, and trial was set for November 2nd, and the death penalty was on the table. In August, Creech pled guilty. He said he was ready to die and wanted to be executed. When Creech pled guilty to first degree murder, his attorneys were absolutely against it. pfft Like, yeah, it was me. We're trying to tell them, they're like, Death penalty's on the table, let's go. We don't do that around here. I'm not very demure. The judge did take into consideration that Creech was protecting himself, but also stated Creech went well beyond defending himself, and the evidence shows an excessive violent rage. Justice O'Connor stated, quote, The victim, once the attack commenced, was under the complete domination and control of the defendant. The murderer itself was extremely gruesome, evidencing an excessive violent rage. With the victim's attack as an excuse, the murderer then took on many aspects of an assassination. These violent actions went well beyond self defense. That, it's totally, it was true. He became an assassin. And they knew that even given the poor forensics. So, for them to not have like a blood spatter analyst and they're like. Oh no. No. This was wild. Ada County Prosecutor Harris and the Sheriff Palmer both sent letters earlier in the year in February warning Creech was violent and should be isolated. if the Sheriff and the Prosecutor maybe says, you know, this guy probably shouldn't be a janitor, let's probably not. Get special privileges as janitor. In 1982, Creech. Tearfully pleaded for the death penalty to the judge. So in January, he was like, I'm done, let's just go. Move it along. stating he was unsure if he would kill again. When Judge Newhouse granted him his wish, he was sentenced to death by lethal injection in March. The judge handed down the sentence in a written statement. And this is important. This is gonna lead to lots of complications with the courts. Okay. In 1983, Creech had to be re sentenced. The Supreme Court said that because Creech was not present in the courtroom when the sentence was rendered, the judge will have to re sentence him. He was re sentenced and his execution date was set for April 29th, but it will automatically be repealed because it's a death case penalty, or because it's a death penalty. Uh, in April, Creech was accused of cutting a fellow death row inmate. He's already killed one inmate, on sight, nevermind the other Stop giving them razors and steak knives. That seems like a pretty fair tradeoff. Like, no, you don't get access to weapons. The Warden Gardener said he will tighten security on Creech. okay, no. What, like someone to follow him around? Like What? He's still Stabbing people and cutting people in maximum security. I, I, okay. Old Slicey McGee over here just has a problem. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Creech will be required to take his exercise time outside when no other inmates are around. I think he got fired from his, janitor job. I certainly hope so. I think he was like, they're like, You're fired. And that was his passion. He was a sexton. That was his passion. It was his passion. I bet that made him even angrier. I have previous experience. Oh, that little, that little shot. Well, I used to do this in a church. I sometimes murdered people on the side, but I, I was great at being a sexton. I really killed it. I know all, I know all of my cleaners, all of my brushes. I can get any stain out of any shirt. Except for blood out of the couch. Well, I just don't bother with that. That's just too much. Ugh, too much work. The assault on this new inmate happened when Creech was in the exercise room for about an hour, when Reeves began cursing at him through the open bars that separate the exercise room from the death row cells. A few minutes later, Creech ran over to Reeves cell with a razor blade mounted on a toothbrush, Where does he still have razors? Why to get that extra reach, have that own toothbrush too. He reached into the cell and cut res on the shoulder. The warden stated that he had no idea how he had the razor because the inmates are required to give back the razor after shaving. Call him. Bullshit. Gardner. We tell them to give it back. They're just supposed to put it in a little basket we have in the office. It's on our system. Gardner Sater Creech was being supervised by two guards. No, he was not. Okay, well, he was, but not well. One was monitoring him on a security screen and the other was monitoring him in a room only separated by steel bars. So the guy with the screen probably was taking a nap because he, there was no TikTok to scroll on. So maybe he was scrolling the newspaper. I'm thinking that would have been the choice back then. A good book? definitely a newspaper. Probably eating his lunch. Playboy. They got playboys in there. They're not paying attention to the cameras. The guard saw the argument began, and had already asked for backup before the attack happened. So he was watching, but still why does he have a razor blade? He's like, The creature has his damn tooth Toothbrush razor out again. I thought we got rid of that, guys. This was only day six for Creech back at the prison since his 20 month stay at the Ada County Jail after the murder of Jensen. He's gotta set the tone. Setting the tone. It's okay. Guess who's back? Creech was not prosecuted for the attack. They're like He's already on the death penalty. What are we gonna do? The Ada County prosecutor, Mr. Greg Bauer. Said it seemed to be a simple waste of time and taxpayer funds. What? I, but still. I understand, but people need justice regardless, like and if you just say you're not ever gonna have to answer to these or talk to people's families, like especially if you're out still murdering people, you can't just be like, well, he's hit the maximum of life sentences or he's getting the death penalty anyway. He has six death row execution warrants, So he can just, oh, and we're gonna keep giving him razor blades. You get like, instead of like free lives in a video game, they're like free deaths, you've hit the max, so you're just unlimited, unlimited killings. It's fine. We don't have time for this anymore. McCreech has a change of heart by May. Of what year? we are in 83. Okay. he wants to change his plea. But the Supreme Court upheld the decision. Like, you, you don't. You pled guilty. He got an extra chance, too. Your attorneys told you not. You did. It's there. Creech continues his appeal despite the ruling. The ruling. David Jensen's family filed a 3. 85 million wrongful death lawsuit against, The prison. I don't blame them. Yeah. He shouldn't have been around them. If you've got a dog with rabies that attacks everyone, you can't just be like, well, he's having his neighborhood time. He likes to walk around by himself. In September, Creech slashed his arm about a dozen times with a razor. Again with the razors! He required 62 stitches but did not cause serious injury. That's a lot of stitches though. That, so he was, he was slicing and dicing, but again. I know this is going to sound callous, but with his previous record of using this to then go to a vacation at a mental health facility, which for him, it truly was a vacation. He got to have weekends out to go gallivant around and go to multiple states. And murder and steal. It's worked before. So he's like, here's, they're really not digging my plea change. Let's try this again. I mean, and maybe that's part of it, but it's like, you have nothing but time in prison.

Stephanie 1:33:21

I feel like you would know an effective way to do this, by then if that was really your intent. Especially given the access to sharp objects! Unlimited! There's just literally If he has sharp objects, he probably would have had something else. They're like, I don't know how he got a pistol in here. We tell, we tell them, after they're done with their target practice, we tell them to put the pistol in the basket by the office. That's the rule. Everyone knows that's the rule. We have very strict rules. Firearm rules. Gardner said Creech had told the prison staff he was sick and tired of everything and he wanted to go through with the death penalty. Make up your mind. Creech is still waiting for the final word from the Idaho Supreme Court on whether the execution order will be allowed to stand. The warden also stated that Creech said he wanted to fire his attorney and just did the cutting for attention more or less. That's not how you fire someone in any nowhere. They're like, I'm gonna fire someone. I'm gonna slice myself about it. I'm gonna slice myself. That's how I'm going to tell them, you're fired. The staff psychologist did not feel that Creech was suicidal. Ding ding. Gardner said that he might assign a guard to observe Creech while he's shaving. He might. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe only, maybe someone else shaves for him. Like something, I know you have to have hygiene. I'm pretty sure there was electric razors. Yeah, give him one of those. It's not a clean shave, but it's still a court date, someone else can give him a clean shave. And he has no access. no more honor system razor returns. Stop. I feel like that's what it was. Hey, did you put They better be in there, Creech. They are. I'm trusting you. You've done this three times. I am, I'm giving you another chance. It's not three strikes, you're out. Keeps slashing up fellow inmates, so you better be telling me the truth one more time and I'm gonna ground you. I wouldn't lie to you. Thank goodness. Later in September, there were, The request to reconsider Creech's execution was rejected by the Idaho Supreme Court in a 4 1 vote. Oop! No execution date was set. They still have the issue of Creech wanting to withdraw his guilty plea. Don't understand why this is still an issue! They've gotta give everyone, like, a million chances. I know, but he had an attorney, and the attorney is on record saying, Don't plead guilty, and then he's like, I'm ready to die. Wait, no I'm not. Yes I am. Like, it just, so much. Maybe he just has to do the opposite. He's like, Oh, oh, don't plead guilty. I don't like that. That feels weird. Maybe he has reverse psychology. Maybe that's what his attorney, Absolutely, you should plead guilty to this. And he'd be like, No, I'm not. I'm not. I feel like that could have saved time because this back and forth is just Gumming up the whole process. We have many, many, many, many more. Jeez. in January of 1984, the Idaho Supreme Court rejected Creech's appeal. So they're like, no, you pled guilty. By February, the appeal to withdraw his claim was back in front of Judge Newhouse. Creech stated, He murdered Jensen in self defense because Jensen had attacked him, and in typical Creech fashion, he created a wild story. Are you ready? You're not. Which one is it? I feel like we could just have a bingo card of like, is it, is it a sex cult? Motorcycle re Satanic. What is it? his story included a drug ring, a mysterious third inmate, which Creech would not identify in open court, and the records were sealed by the judge, and escape. So there's drug ring, A mysterious third inmate and escape plans. Creech stated he was coerced into entering the guilty plea due to the threats he and his family received, depression, and thinking he had no alternative. I don't think anyone cares about his family. Like, prove it. That seems like No, he's saying that this third inmate Was like, if you don't plead guilty to this, I'm in a big drug ring and I'm gonna murder your family. These outlandish, like if somebody said this today in court, they'd be laughed at. It was probably, he was probably what like, what is it called? A key enforcer in the drug ring? Number eight. Of eight. By the end of the month, Creech was isolated in prison. He attacked another inmate, Albert Beam. What did Albert do to deserve this? I just want you to guess what he attacked him with. Is it another toothbrush with a razor? I'm going to like slap my own self in the face with a razor blade. Creech The razor blade distribution system is off the chain. It's, he should definitely be grounded by the guards. He gets 13 new ones every time they take one away. This the trust system's not working out there. Creech enticed him, Albert Beam, into his exercise area and then attacked him with a razor blade. Wasn't he supposed to never be, like, around others? Well, the warden said he might. Enticed him how? With, like, a sexy performance of a dance? Like that one on, on Schitt's Creek, where he's like Oh, yeah. Was that one, like, simply the best? Yeah. Yes. That one. Yeah, that's what he was doing. Oh, that just made me giggle so hard inside. Albert, you fell for the sexy seduction dance? Dang it! Sorry, Albert. It's serious. You shouldn't have been sliced. They shouldn't have been giving him these razor blades. Albert Beam, who was also on death row, required 30 stitches. Creech had lured Beam into his exercise area to stage a lack of electrical wiring and part of the death row area. It's like, hey, we don't have enough wires, here, you wanna come look? What do we do about this? Like why would you be concerned about that? What? He is wild. The lack of wiring prevents some inmates from having televisions in their cells. You're on death row, dude. You're a murderer. He's like, we can fix the TV and be heroes. Both men's exercise areas were next to each other's. Beam entered Creech's area by removing some wire mesh. So, he's like, oh yeah, bro, I'm gonna come check it out. So, they had chicken wire separating people as well, clearly. That's, it's a maximum security prison if it keeps those chickens. Unsupervised razor, unlimited razor use. Oh my god. So, he removes some wire mesh. Mesh. I just kinda feel like it was more like heavy duty than that. If you could just remove it though, like, how is, where's the guy on the cameras? No shit. Playboy. Playboy got to him again. Beam was cut behind his ear and on both sides of his neck and under his left eye. Oh my god. It wasn't like one long. And at the face. And just slicing. He was trying to, that sounds like attempted murder to me. Wasn't like, uh huh, I got your thigh. I got your, I got your eyes. Wanna play swords? Let's play swords. Oh my god. What is this? It's like, uh, no, I'm going for the neck and the eye. Thank you. And if you really don't want the death penalty, why would you ever be behaving like this? we can barely get past a year or two with multiple instances of some deaths and many assaults or attempted murders. Like, if you really didn't want To have the death penalty. You would think, you'd be like, I gotta stop with this license. I, it's my favorite hobby. I gotta stop with this license. I gotta stop. I need some help. So, if he, this makes you just think of poor David Jensen. Because, if he's trying to coax somebody in a cell to Fuck them up. I don't believe any of that shit with Jensen that he's like, oh, he tried to hit me with this No, I don't believe one. No, you were feeling a need for a slicey dicey. Yeah. Yeah, I need well We have a new warden kids. Thank goodness because was it Gardner? Yeah, it was Gardner get out We might this isn't for you. You're not a good fit Okay This is a hard name for me to say because I have never had so many R's and V's.

Dani 1:42:45

And A's. Uh, we have a new warden, kids. Arvon Arevey. The warden stated, He plans on having the mesh reinforced. Thank you. I mean,

Stephanie 1:43:01

with something like a popsicle stick or something. Maybe some super glues on there. Some

Dani 1:43:07

string. We just tied that shit back

Stephanie 1:43:10

together. We put some zip ties on it. We got extra strength duct tape. They are not getting through that.

Dani 1:43:17

and, except for the razor blades.

Stephanie 1:43:20

Razor blades are no match for this duct tape.

Dani 1:43:23

after the attack, the weapon wasn't found. Creech admitted to flushing it down the toilet. He knows exactly what he's,

Stephanie 1:43:31

what, he's very experienced, like, Where are the

Dani 1:43:33

cameras? Judge Newhouse set a new date for Creech's execution. Creech was ordered to die on May 24th by a firing squad. May 24th. Idaho Supreme Court delays the execution. No, not nice. Delays the execution again before the end of the month. In August, we're getting married. Creech is now engaged. Who is entertaining this man? Uh, Lucy Hill. Lucy, go

Stephanie 1:44:06

home.

Dani 1:44:06

They plan to marry in October. They're making plans. This is not a shotgun wedding. Ladies and gentlemen, they are going to do it appropriately.

Stephanie 1:44:16

It's a big event. Everyone in the jail is invited. Anyone out of the jail is invited. You just gotta go through this little door that's meshed with duct tape and you can come. Bring your razor blades. There's a bouquet of razor blades.

Dani 1:44:29

Everybody gets them. Lucy Hill Creech as a spiritual advisor. Weird. Once they applied to be married, the warden, Arave, stated, Due to the relationship change to fiancé, it made her ineligible for visits under state law. if you go from spiritual advisor to fiancé,

Stephanie 1:44:59

you're burnt. Preach. Read the fine print. You should have known this. You have plenty of time. I

Dani 1:45:04

felt like they To know this. If they were smart, they would have just lied about it,

Stephanie 1:45:09

because

Dani 1:45:10

they kind of Or at least

Stephanie 1:45:10

up until the last moment, and then you're like, boom, we're married. You switch over and now I'm family, because if you're married, your wife can come, right? Right. So, don't tell anyone.

Dani 1:45:20

But, you know, if they're so spiritual, they probably could have found some spiritual way to be married. And

Stephanie 1:45:26

just say that you're married.

Dani 1:45:28

Well, no, but just be a spiritual advisor. And then she could have went and seen him. Messed that up. Once they applied to be married, the relationship had changed, boom, you're done. No more visitation. It made her ineligible. he, stated that he will not allow Creech to marry. The warden's like, no, no, I'm putting my foot down, I'm saying no.

Stephanie 1:45:54

We're not running a wedding venue around here. It's not a dating site. We're running a place where everyone gets a razor and if you cut someone, whoopsie. This is not a wedding venue though.

Dani 1:46:04

Snow tender.

Stephanie 1:46:06

I've got to draw the line somewhere.

Dani 1:46:10

Oh. under Idaho state law, condemned murderers can only be visited by family members, attorneys, doctors, and spiritual advisors. Why didn't Lucy Hill go to school to become an attorney?

Stephanie 1:46:22

Done. Yeah, go to law school. Easy.

Dani 1:46:29

In October, a settlement was reached in the wrongful death suit for David Jensen.

Stephanie 1:46:34

Ooh, I don't know what the settlement was. They didn't disclose, I'm sure. No,

Dani 1:46:38

but, if a settlement was reached, and they should because This guy should not have been in jail. Well, and just

Stephanie 1:46:45

showing that he's still getting away with it, it's like, get your Just for the reputation of the prison and law enforcement, like And he's killing Maybe it's time to actually do something, like

Dani 1:46:57

I would have loved to have been an attorney with that wrongful

Stephanie 1:47:01

Oh my gosh.

Dani 1:47:02

Like, um, do you know he just, um, sliced up another Just this morning! And, oh, then there's another one? Yeah.

Stephanie 1:47:11

Something about duct taped mesh. He just, they, weird. Lucy was like,

Dani 1:47:18

this isn't working for me. I'm out. Can't see ya. I'm out. But in 1985, Creech is in love again. Do they

Stephanie 1:47:30

have like a dating show at this time that's like, Look at your eligible inmates. I mean they have them on TikTok now. They do. I get ones from the Ada County where I'm like

Dani 1:47:42

who? Oh, look at you. Who are you bitch? You know what shows up on my FYP? The state pen.

Stephanie 1:47:48

Yeah, and they're like, hey, my name is Raymond Just looking to chat and have a good time and write me letters I've got a lot of tattoos and I'm looking for a bad girl. I'm like stop it Raymond. Go On And go and read a book. Go to the prison library immediately. Get off TikTok. Do your, well there's somebody on the outside recording these and uploading them. Yes, and they're probably paying them. Because first of all, you already have to pay for the phone call, the video call. That

Dani 1:48:19

might be a good side gig.

Stephanie 1:48:20

Oh. Oh, I bet they are making money. Because they want, they're making money. They want to be on TikTok.

Dani 1:48:27

Mom, will you send this lady some money so that she will take a recording of me and post it on TikTok? We don't have

Stephanie 1:48:34

Tinder here, Mom! What am I supposed to do? You know how hard it is to keystore a cell phone? This is my chance!

Dani 1:48:46

Oh my God. So Creech planned on getting married by proxy. Ask me.

Stephanie 1:48:53

What in the world, how can you get married by proxy? This sounds like magical.

Dani 1:48:58

So, by proxy means that you have signed over your, basically your rights for some, like somebody can make decisions for you.

Stephanie 1:49:07

Okay.

Dani 1:49:08

So, a simple way to put it, like, um, my HOA, if I had to be out of town and go on this awesome vacation, I don't want this president, I want a new president, but hey, neighbor. I'm going to sign this paper and it's a by proxy vote. So you're going to go vote in place of me, of my person.

Stephanie 1:49:27

Okay.

Dani 1:49:28

the correction coordinator stated by proxy marriages are not legal and he would not entertain the new bride's request to visit.

Stephanie 1:49:36

Cause you're like cosplaying someone like, hello, I am Danny. I am getting married to my beloved. Um,

Dani 1:49:45

Let's, let's go. Betty Creel went to the prison claiming she was Creech's wife and wanted to visit him. Creel was rejected her visit. Keen, Creech's public defender, had filed a petition against the prison. Keen said the two were married and Emmett by proxy on April 23rd. Betty, get out of here. Creech gave limited power of attorney to Ronald Creech to represent him in the marriage. Not Ronald. He's back. Ronald. What a helpful brother. Creech said he was unable to attend his wedding because he was currently incarcerated. FYI, I would love to be there. I'm detained. Ronald Creech, his brother, walked into the Jim County Courthouse and stated he was Thomas Creech. He had that piece of paper. The two were married in front of the Jim State Magistrate. The magistrate wrote in an affidavit, That at no time did either participant state that this was a by proxy marriage, and the nuptial kiss certainly did not appear to be by proxy. So it was

Stephanie 1:51:00

like a lot of tongue.

Dani 1:51:02

I bet you there was,

Stephanie 1:51:03

and if this, this is just identity fraud as well. if you're just pretending to be someone and not being like, I'm their representative, you, that's identity fraud.

Dani 1:51:11

He was like, yeah, they're making out.

Stephanie 1:51:13

Did he? And I wanna know the. What was behind that? Was he like, I better make it look real because I have to behave as my brother would, or is he like, I'm getting to get all touchy feely. This is great.

Dani 1:51:26

How about our honeymoon night?

Stephanie 1:51:29

By

Dani 1:51:29

proxy. Let's go. I'm him. I'm him. He's me. Got the paper. State law prohibits prisoners sentenced to life in prison or death from entering into legal contracts Including marriage

Stephanie 1:51:44

can't do it

Dani 1:51:46

Creel met Creech after reading he was depressed She wrote to him stating it was her Christian duty They've had phone calls and letters and even seen each other at court hearings Duty. Creole moved to Boise from Denver to be closer to Creech. In arguments, the Attorney General, Tim McNeese, said that even if by proxy marriage is found to be legal, the marriage is null and void because Ronald Creech did not disclose he was not Thomas Creech. So you can't be like, Oh yeah, this is me. Like if you're going to do by proxy, you're like, I got a thing and

Stephanie 1:52:25

yeah, I'm a representative. And he was like, no, this is my chance to stick my tongue down someone's throat.

Dani 1:52:34

But Ronald did not disclose who he was from the advice of Creech's attorney, Keen. So just keep yourself shut. So Keen is

Stephanie 1:52:43

like, just, you are him. He's kind of, You can't just be somebody. You can speak on behalf or act on behalf. Don't say nothing. Just don't say nothing. You are him. I'm

Dani 1:52:53

kind

Stephanie 1:52:53

of worried about this

Dani 1:52:54

attorney.

Stephanie 1:52:56

Yeah, it's not looking good.

Dani 1:53:01

In June, Creech asked to be executed again. I can't be married. I must die, like this guy.

Stephanie 1:53:10

Then stop appealing all this,

Dani 1:53:13

like. But that, that wasn't the rule. I don't think that that was the reason. Like, it wasn't a mood swing. Okay. His, his by proxy wife. No. Had left town with his younger brother, Ron, They had a

Stephanie 1:53:30

connection, a physical, extended, apparently, connection in front of a judge. That sounds like it was super awkward. I wonder if his attorney was like, make sure you give her the tongue. This could work out great for you. Honestly, you've been single for a while and I mean, you'll look enough alike. She might just accept you as a Make it look real. You're a stand in. I

Dani 1:53:53

bet you he did. He's like, I bet you he did. Make it look real. Don't, no peck on the cheek. Make it look real. Give her a

Stephanie 1:54:00

smack on the ass too. Oh my God. I wish I had a video

Dani 1:54:04

of that.

Stephanie 1:54:05

Ronald, Ronald and Betty. Ran off into the sunset. One happy ending. But after

Dani 1:54:11

a few days went by, Creech's mother said Creech had regained his will to live after a weekend of praying. He wrote a letter to, he had wrote a letter to the Chief Justice on Monday to halt all of his appeals and set an execution date, and by Saturday he had taken a pen to paper and said, No, uh, J. K. It's like, I was, please disregard my current I had a moment. Please disregard, uh, My most current correspondence. Yeah, I know you've written those emails, but like, oh, yeah,

Stephanie 1:54:50

like Can I recall? No, I can't recall. Too

Dani 1:54:54

late. No, too late. Two weeks later the Idaho Supreme Court decided in a four to one vote To not allow the withdrawal of the guilty plea in the murder of Jensen. It

Stephanie 1:55:03

seems like he almost always has one. It's like No, we'll allow it.

Dani 1:55:08

This guy is just constantly in court. On the taxpayer dime, too, mind you.

Stephanie 1:55:14

I bet that's who he's getting the razor blades from. He's got a, he's got a connection.

Dani 1:55:20

Maybe The

Stephanie 1:55:22

conspiracy runs really deep on this.

Dani 1:55:25

The ruling will make way for another execution date. In 1986, Creech had a date with a firing squad. He was a date

Stephanie 1:55:35

but not the time that

Dani 1:55:36

he was. No date and time, just a date. He was ordered to be executed on February 3rd, 1986. Keen stated he would appeal under the validity of the death penalty and will ask for a state of execution. Here we go, and just in case you're keeping count, this is the fourth execution date that he's had.

Stephanie 1:55:57

Four times. And just for those of you out there here in Taterland, aka Idaho, the firing squad isn't it still, wasn't it just approved to also be a means of execution?

Dani 1:56:10

Yeah, they got rid of the firing squad because they were doing all of the, lethal injections, but the Coburger case up in Northern Idaho, as soon as that all happened, it was like voted in so, within, Like months after those murders happened. They're like, oh we need a backup.

Stephanie 1:56:34

It's crazy. that's the state we live in they're like you gotta bring we got to bring something back if we can't have our electric chair, we can't have a hanging can we at least get a firing squad?

Dani 1:56:45

Just in case. So

Stephanie 1:56:46

strange that that could literally happen.

Dani 1:56:49

It did happen so fast and I wish that I had like the dates to tell you how fast it happened. But it was. Well, I

Stephanie 1:56:57

mean the Koberger case only started just in the last few years. So. Right,

Dani 1:57:01

but I mean they're like, yep, let's shoot people now. Let's go. Well, and you know what? and I am unsure actually. I'm in a very, I would have multiple Feelings about the death penalty. Um, but the lethal injection has created such a controversy and getting it. And so I think the firing squad is an alternative that there's

Stephanie 1:57:39

no squabbles about. I can't see why there isn't any squabbles because even if I was a law enforcement officer, me personally. I would never be a law enforcement officer regardless, but if I was and they're like, oh yeah, on Tuesday though, you're one of 10 that's going to just blast someone into oblivion. I don't know how it works. What are the,

Dani 1:57:59

I read that they had hundreds of people right into volunteer to do it.

Stephanie 1:58:06

And that's creepy. And why, why would you allow? So, cause that's basically someone with a weird fetish being like, I always wanted to shoot a man. here's my chance to do it. This feels very, like, Roman, like, go into the thing. Vigilante

Dani 1:58:20

justice kind of thing. But, I surely would never want to shoot somebody, even if it was somebody that had murdered somebody close. that's not my jam. Would not want to do it. But I do think that there are people out there that are like, this needs to be I don't think they're necessarily whack jobs, actually. I think that they, you know, I kind of think like, back in the good old, like, somebody rapes somebody, they're, they round up a posse and they're going to go take care of it. so I kind of feel like it's a little like vigilante, just like they're doing their thing to participate. I don't think that they would let people volunteer.

Stephanie 1:59:00

I hope they don't because that's strange. It's like, what are you doing on Sunday? Well, I got the month I'm going to the monster jam truck rally. Oh, I wanted to go to that so bad, bro. But I actually have a firing squad assignment. Like I got to shoot a dude. I've got to go.

Dani 1:59:17

I've got to go. It's very

Stephanie 1:59:19

important. There's going to be an audience. I'm hoping I have a good aim. it doesn't compute for me. Please no volunteers. I mean, it's bad enough making, was that in the job description when these officers were, like, if this goes through, you maybe have to, like, show someone to do it?

Dani 1:59:37

But I think that people still volunteer. I think it's a voluntary basis to even do the lethal injection stuff.

Stephanie 1:59:45

All of it's weird to me. I

Dani 1:59:47

wish now I want to know more and I don't. And can I just tell you this vodka is

Stephanie 1:59:54

for us. Mine is very spicy too. Spicy. I got a little carried away with the pork. It is very hard to drink. And just so you guys know, we recorded this part already. This was finished last night, but then we realized that we were not recording on the mics at all. We had done something, something messed up and it was only recording on the camera audio, which isn't awful, but especially if you're listening on like ear pods or anything, it just isn't pleasant to listen. It's very tinny and it's almost hurdy. So we were like.

Dani 2:00:30

So we're doing round two.

Stephanie 2:00:31

So it's round two for us, and this round two is like round seven, like good God. Cheers, sister. Vodka, vodka. Dingo, dingo.

Dani 2:00:41

It's been brutes. Um, one more sip of this harsh cocktail. I'm gonna do

Stephanie 2:00:48

it with you because you need, you need support. Hmm.

Dani 2:00:51

Thank you. Oh my god. I need the ice to melt. Okay. Please melt. Please don't melt. Um. Whew. So, Warden Arave scheduled an execution drill. Six days before the execution date, an Idaho Supreme Court denied the stay for Creech. They're like, nope, get him out of here, we're done. Keene, Creech's attorney, filed with the U. S. District Court to review the appeal and stated he's ready to take it to the Supreme Court. Creech had ordered his last meal consisting of a small deluxe pizza, two double hamburgers, and cake and ice cream. For He was only allowed to order from what was available at the prison.

Stephanie 2:01:36

We're not catering this in, so you get what you get.

Dani 2:01:39

I kind of feel like they should get what they want.

Stephanie 2:01:42

I think so too. I mean, what if, like, within reason, like, put a budget on it, like, yeah, it can't be from, like, the Salt Bay restaurant. They're like, fly it in from Europe or wherever. But I

Dani 2:01:53

do feel like within reason, like, yeah, he's been to a restaurant around here. It's one time, one time. Give him, give him 150. Voucher. Yeah. Maybe he just, we've already

Stephanie 2:02:04

paid for how many years of meals, right? Millions. What is this? What percent of his stay is this? Like, just do it. Give him a, just give him the Q. Give him a good meal.

Dani 2:02:14

Give him the steak. Creech was given his execution, PR procedures to read. He'd be allowed to choose between his institutional coveralls or general institutional blue shirt and Levi's.

Stephanie 2:02:28

Pick your outfit. Okay,

Dani 2:02:30

so I mean, some choices. Creech chose the latter, and I would have to, I'm like, no, I'm going to go out and Levi's, yeah, put me in a jumper. 61 hours before the execution date, U. S. District Judge Harold Ryan granted a stay. Of course. In June, that judge denies Creech's motion for a new trial. he ordered a stay, but You don't get a new trial out of it. Judge Newhouse set another date of execution for July 29th. Creech's attorney already filed the notice of appeal to the 9th U. S. Circuit Court of Appeals. They've just

Stephanie 2:03:14

got copies that need to be filled out. Like, nope, let's do it. This execution date we're appealing.

Dani 2:03:19

A stay was once again granted. In 1987, September of 87, Creech once again asked to be executed and then changed his mind the very next day. This is a Stop asking for it, Ben. So this was 87. I'm just curious to see when he quits asking back and forth. in 1989, Creech is in love again and asked to get married. Very eligible bachelor somehow. The request is denied. His bride to be will not give up. Cheryl Lynn Miller traveled 2, 000 miles. She's come all this way, guys. Class Act. Gave custody of her two children up, and is working two jobs just to get married to Creech.

Stephanie 2:04:07

To an inmate on death row that you cannot even visit, gave up custody of your children. this is your, if you didn't like your kids, this is your escape plan? I don't want to be a mother. I'm gonna go and marry. I'd rather marry an inmate that I can never see and never even marry and work to your work. That's loser. But I have to work two jobs to see my inmate boyfriend and put money on his. You're working that hard as a woman in this age. Stop it. Cheryl, stop that immediately. Shut up.

Dani 2:04:50

They became pen pals in 1986. Oh. After her mother. Cheryl's mother, a spiritual advisor, told her about an inmate she had visited in Idaho.

Stephanie 2:05:03

Why does he have so many spiritual advisors and, Mom, listen up, Mom, were you trying to get the kids? Why were you like, I, there's a boy who I think would fancy you, Cheryl. Shut up, Mom. Oh, this is spiraling

Dani 2:05:20

quickly. Preach and Miller sued the state in a civil lawsuit. Mm. Civil. Miller was allowed to attend the hearing under tight security. She had to be stripped sh searched before being allowed in the courtroom. Authorities are highly concerned about an escape plan. In letters written to Creech by his fiancé, Their fiancés.

Stephanie 2:05:44

Which all get read, people.

Dani 2:05:47

She stated that she would do anything to help him get out of jail. Which authorities said is the exact reason. They don't want Creech to get married and have visitation. Yeah,

Stephanie 2:05:59

a partner to plot crimes with? Maybe not the best direction right now.

Dani 2:06:06

But really, in my opinion, that's so vague, so vague. There was no plans. To be submitted to a strip search for court? To be a bystander? Yeah, not good.

Stephanie 2:06:24

A little aggro. woman working two jobs. Give her a break. I'm not saying really give her a break, but I would, that's a little excessive.

Dani 2:06:31

It's, it's much.

Stephanie 2:06:32

But with the ease in which he's gotten things, I mean, maybe she had, maybe she had a machete in her back pocket and was just going to toss it to him and they're like, Oh, what was that? That was clearly a toy, like a gift. Yeah. Of course he's going to take it back to his cell, it's a machete.

Dani 2:06:50

The razors. February of 1990, Creech's request was denied. Aww. In December, a court hearing, there was a court hearing for a judge to decide whether Creech could marry or not. They dragged this on. In February. Gumming it up. In February of 1991, Judge Michael Dennard, could be Dennard, Dennard upheld the previous year's decision. In March, a federal appeals court overturned Creech's death sentence. It stated, Idaho's death penalty law was unconstitutionally vague. The portion of the wording that was under question was that a murder was considered a capital crime if the murderer exhibited utter disregard for human life. That language was unclear to what that meant. In April of 1992, Creech and Miller were married via telephone. In November, the state asked the court, asked the Superior Court to reinstate the death penalty to Creech. I mean, he's just been in and out. In March of 1993, a Supreme Court ruling upheld Idaho capital, Idaho's capital punishment law. They said the phrasing was not vague. This is years and years of red tape and dragging. Overwork,

Stephanie 2:08:24

a sentence, which is how it goes.

Dani 2:08:26

And I'm just gonna, just kinda keep going through these years. I think it's important to know. Just give

Stephanie 2:08:33

a timeline of how many things. The fight and the time.

Dani 2:08:35

Yeah. in 1995, at his death sentence hearing, Creech was, Creech is allowed to play a recording of him playing his guitar and singing. They let him play it for, he did, he played a 30 minute serenade in court.

Stephanie 2:08:52

And listen y'all, this isn't even necessary because there is, he was interviewed, I don't know if it's before or after this, but this seems like a party trick of his. There's a long on our local news station, KTVB, of him, a full, like, bio and playing the guitar, and it's very creepy,

Dani 2:09:15

I could not help but send that to you when I found it. I had to watch it. You have to watch this. And

Stephanie 2:09:19

it's, it's a, it's a tough watch. It's a struggle to get through. So, the fact that he was able to do this in a courtroom. for 30 minutes. Where's Judge Judy?

Dani 2:09:32

Two chords in. Nope, not listening. Anyway, let's get a little fun fact. And I, I, I really researched this and tried to find it. during this period of court at the, at the death sentence hearing, his, the prosecuting attorney, mentioned that Creech's brothers were also convicted of homicide. I wanted to find it so bad and I could not find it. I wonder if it was Ronald.

Stephanie 2:10:11

Wait, where's Betty?

Dani 2:10:12

Betty! Betty! Damn it, Betty. I was so frustrated. I wanted to find it. I spent so much time. And I'm sure

Stephanie 2:10:20

all of the headlines are so overtaken by his stuff. I mean, how many times was he in the news over this 50 years? And I

Dani 2:10:25

did, I did locate something that could have been a possibility, but I wasn't for sure. And so they said this

Stephanie 2:10:31

in

Dani 2:10:32

court, like, Yeah.

Stephanie 2:10:34

You would think there would have to be, we need access to the jail records.

Dani 2:10:39

Well, this is also probably like a closing statement or something where you don't really have to show evidence. Like, they're all doing it. You can just say it. in April of that year, 1995, he was again sentenced to death.

Stephanie 2:10:52

Lost track.

Dani 2:10:53

I think we're at number I think we're out of fingers. Uh.

Stephanie 2:10:55

Maybe. I don't know.

Dani 2:10:57

February 7th, 1997, the execution order was issued, but immediately stayed due to more appeals. In 1998, another execution date is set for November 19th, after a Supreme Court rejection of the appeal in October. The execution was blocked six days before the execution date by Sandra Day O'Connor, indefinitely.

Stephanie 2:11:25

How does that work? You just say, I say forever on this one. You wave your wand.

Dani 2:11:32

And it really is forever. I mean, I appreciate me some Sandra Day O'Connor, but how can you just be like, eh, indefinitely, we're just gonna not hear this.

Stephanie 2:11:42

Maybe she was just tired of it coming back and forth, and she's like, whatever. Like, why are we still fighting this battle?

Dani 2:11:53

but also in 1998, Creech got married to a woman named Leanne, who was a son of a correctional officer at the Idaho State Prison. A daughter of a correctional officer? Oh, a mother. He married a woman named Leanne. Her son was a correctional officer.

Stephanie 2:12:20

Ewww. So is her son, like, she's like son, um, Who's the most eligible bachelor? I got a guy for you, Mom. He's wonderful. He, so sweet, caring, has an affinity for razors. If you could bring him just two of those, if you could get those in, Mom, he'll be yours forever. Weird! Weird! What the hell? It's so weird! This is getting crazier.

Dani 2:12:56

in 1999, the Supreme Court rejects Creech's appeal. So we're four years later. He's just been,

Stephanie 2:13:05

so does this get rid of miss O'Connor's indefinite forever curse?

Dani 2:13:11

No. 1999, the Supreme court rejects creatures appeal. An execution date was set for June 24th, June 16th, a federal judge stays his execution 2002. the appeal is rejected by the Idaho Supreme court. Now there's nothing, nothing in 2023. Goodness. Idaho brought back the firing squad. In October, Creech was issued a death warrant. Creech has a hearing asking for clemency. Creech has had 11 execution dates in total. That's, we ran out of fingers.

Stephanie 2:14:02

Official. We had to go to the pinky toe for this one. I was

Dani 2:14:05

just gonna say, oh my god. Um, at his clemency hearing in 2024, seven former IDOC workers, Idaho Department of Correction Workers, signed support letters for Creech. His wife of 25 years, Leanne. She's stuck. Okay, Leanne. She's stuck. Also asked for clemency. Creech has been confirmed to have killed 11 people in seven different states. Mr. Nationwide. In January, the state parole board denied his plea for a reduced sentence. On February 28th, 2024, Creech's execution was set to take place. His last meal consisted of fried chicken, mashed potatoes and gravy and ice cream. And he spent time with his wife. The scheduled execution took place at 10 a. m. By 1058, the execution was halted. After eight failed attempts to insert an IV line, they gave up. They were attempted in his legs, his arms, hands, feet. They were unable to find, they were able to find some veins, but were worried about the quality of the veins.

Stephanie 2:15:30

So they just called it off. Because at a certain point, you can't stick someone for three hours. I mean, this is in front of an audience.

Dani 2:15:39

Well, Creech does have diabetes, which could call for Oh, yeah. and you know, I was so During this research, I'm like, he is an old man. So, he's 74.

Stephanie 2:15:52

74 now.

Dani 2:15:54

I don't think he should be let out. But, I think, my thought process at the time was like, To actually be drug in and sit there for an hour while they're trying to kill you. In front

Stephanie 2:16:06

of an audience of people. Like, I mean, obviously he does the terrible things he's done to people that were so innocent. and seemingly often for no reason. you don't have to kill some, you don't have to kill a young girl to rob a Circle K. You don't have to kill your in, inmate friend through, through the, you know, paper mache mesh. You Leave him alone.

Dani 2:16:29

Um, you don't have to kill Paul Schrader while he's on vacation.

Stephanie 2:16:34

Or people that are helping you.

Dani 2:16:36

Yeah.

Stephanie 2:16:38

Tucking them in in a freakin ditch.

Dani 2:16:41

Right. Oh, you need a ride? Bro gotcha. Oh, never mind. You're, I'm gonna kill you. You can get your

Stephanie 2:16:45

ride straight into the ditch, but you can have our sleeping bags though. We don't want you to get cold.

Dani 2:16:50

So there was some point during this research that I was like, just let him just, you know, He's, he's obviously sick with diabetes and just, he's been there forever. Just let him die of natural causes. But then he had to do an interview.

Stephanie 2:17:14

Tell me about this interview, please. Did he play the guitar? First off, was he like, first off, here is a 75 minute original song that I wrote. Please air all of this or you can not air anything else on my interview. Thank you.

Dani 2:17:31

Um, It was really just a lot of, first of all, there's no hanging out with him like it was back in the day, right? So, he's, uh, I believe that they had some photography, of his cell, but it was, I believe it was done over the phone. then I had a total change of heart when the reporter, and this was on, I'm not gonna, I'm not for sure where I saw it, but, ink. Sorry. the reporter had asked him, how he felt knowing, going in to his execution. And he said, it was the worst feeling anybody could ever feel. Anybody? How about, Mr. William Dean that you shot on the frickin couch? How about Sandra you shot at the Circle K? What about Paul Schrader that you stabbed him and slid his throat while on vacation with his wife? What about the union guy, Vivian Grant, Robinson, that you were, on your vacation from your mental hospital? And all of the other people. And I'm thinking going into a controlled situation where you've got a chance to say goodbye and have your peace and eat your meal and have your last meal, get a lot of ice cream. maybe Grant Robinson had ramen for dinner and was like, I should have made my steak. And then he got fucking straight. Fuck you, Creech. It made me so mad. And then I changed my mind. Yeah. Creech, rot. What I am not seeing is any remorse or sympathy from this. Or even

Stephanie 2:19:30

just a realistic look of

Dani 2:19:32

I did this. Why did

Stephanie 2:19:33

I shoot that girl in the circle K? Like I could have just taken the money. It's

Dani 2:19:37

all about me.

Stephanie 2:19:38

Yeah.

Dani 2:19:38

It's, let me tell you about my feelings. It was horrible.

Stephanie 2:19:44

I've only asked for this 17 times and then changed my mind and then continued to do things that would give me the death penalty even more. I, my actions continued to be something that could result in this as I was asking for it to not happen and then asking for it to happen. No. Don't.

Dani 2:20:05

I was feeling sorry for him. Like I wasn't, not sorry, but I was like, just let it go. Because we have

Stephanie 2:20:11

empathy. He does not.

Dani 2:20:13

Right. I was like, gosh, that would

Stephanie 2:20:14

suck to be like being poked and prodded in front of an audience.

Dani 2:20:18

And knowing that you're going to die and you're just like, can you just hurry up? Like I'm here. Let's go. But no, he's like, it was the worst feeling ever. Oh, oh, don't feel bad for him at all. I feel bad for his victims. Mm hmm. I hate that we have spent millions and millions and millions of dollars housing a person that has no remorse.

Stephanie 2:20:45

I want to see the cost analysis as well. I wish we had that. Maybe

Dani 2:20:48

I'll do that on the next one.

Stephanie 2:20:50

I think we need because really, how much longer is he gonna live? How much did this cost? recent attempt of execution cost. These drugs are

Dani 2:20:57

hella expensive because

Stephanie 2:20:59

no one will sell

Dani 2:21:00

them anymore. No, they have to get them on the download. Do you know Idaho has a law?

Stephanie 2:21:04

They're like, we can go on the black market for drugs sometimes. You guys cannot. They really do. They

Dani 2:21:08

have a law and I wish I had it written down. There is a law that they don't even have to disclose how much it is or where they're getting it from.

Stephanie 2:21:17

So, what if I got it from, Jimmy on the corner?

Dani 2:21:21

Who's the guy in, um, who's the guy that roofied everybody? Oh, on Hangover? Yeah.

Stephanie 2:21:30

On Accident? Yeah.

Dani 2:21:32

What was his name?

Stephanie 2:21:33

The curly headed

Dani 2:21:34

fuck. No, but he referred to the drug dealer as a name. Black Doug! In an official

Stephanie 2:21:45

court document, they're like, Materials obtained from Black Doug. Street name Black Doug did not disclose actual name, not actually black. if it threw something like that in there, you're like, Black Doug has execution drugs?

Dani 2:22:05

But he says somewhere, I was thinking it says in the movie, like down at the liquor store or down at the corner store, anyway. Yeah, I went to the liquor store and he was like, I got that, fam. I wasn't expecting Black Doug, but then thinking about how it went down, remember, they're like, this is the wrong Doug. Yeah, Black Doug. So, anyways, Preach's death warrant has expired. Anisha's sitting there. I don't imagine this is going to go anywhere. I

Stephanie 2:22:36

don't think it is either. I think everyone's just like, We just bide our time. It's going to happen. maybe if he's I just think he's gonna die of natural causes. accentogenarian or whatever they're called. He's like, I'm a hundred and

Dani 2:22:50

eleven. I will be upset. Well, he does have frankly probably really good health care and he's getting three meals a day and His skin is probably At this

Stephanie 2:23:02

point, I wonder if he's gonna encourage just to get another meal because he's like, you can't find a mane. I get

Dani 2:23:09

a nice chicken dinner. Somebody I had read somewhere that, death row inmates will sometimes, not drink water so they will become dehydrated, which shrinks their veins. Oh,

Stephanie 2:23:22

I bet.

Dani 2:23:24

And I heard that that, that could have been that situation, but he's 70 foot with diabetes. So it's like the veins are already tough. And then I've had people when I, tell, you know, we've discussed like, maybe they IV him next time. Maybe a nurse spends time and no, he was mapped. They mapped his veins. Wow. Yeah. They mapped his veins. yeah, interesting. They were very, they, they were mapped. And so. And, but I've had people say, why don't they just, that they were in, it's like, if it's a botched execution, well, and you don't want to be to the point where it's cruel and unusual because then if your, goal is to be able to execute more, like that's your prerogative, then you can't be effing things up like this because then they'll be like, psyched. This specific case, how ridiculous was that? Like you can never. And so then they know. That everything in law has a repercussion. It could be 20 years down the line. Oh, absolutely. So. And if they got, what if they had gotten like half of the injection in them? Yeah, what happens then? It would have been a nightmare. Do they not die? Right. Who knows? Are they just damaged in some way and now you have disability of a botched execution? So that's why they're very very careful about it. So all things that you don't really think about but gosh this case I cannot believe how back and forth like this is 50 years. You did so good on research on this. This is ridiculous It's a lot of back and forth and I I did include all the case stuff because I just felt like it's important, like this is just dragging and dragging. but he's a weird dude. Well, he went through the worst thing anyone else could ever experience. Ever, ever go through. Give him some, give him some grace here. How exciting, Steph. I feel good. I'm so excited to finish this. Yes, thank you for coming to our first episode. So, thank you for listening. And like, subscribe, share. Ask us questions. If you have any questions, ask us. We are happy to answer. And what is our email, Steph? You can write to us. TheLethalLibrary at gmail dot com. That's it. Um, Bye guys. We will soon have our social up and Steph will share all that stuff. Yeah. Visit us on socials. We love to hang out with you. Thank you for coming and listening to us. Bye guys! Tan four rubber ducky. One on the books. Fuck yeah!