2. Fires of Deceit, The Robin Rowe Story

Welcome to the Lethal Library! Dani and Stephanie dive into a bonfire of true crime as they unravel the fiery tale of Robin Lee Rowe. Born in 1957 and seemingly followed by fires and lies her entire life, Rowe sits on death row for the brutal murder of her husband and two kids. Using sources like 'Deadly Confidant' by Nancy Whitmore Poore, they disclose Rowe's labyrinth of deceit, insurance scams, and a suspicious number of 'accidental' fires. Tune in to hear how this arsonist and fraudster tried—and mostly failed—to burn her way to financial freedom. Spoiler alert: No one wants to be friends with this woman. Like, ever.

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Transcript

Dani 0:31

Welcome to the Lethal Library. I'm Dani. I'm Stephanie. And today, I'm going to talk to you about Robin Lee Rowe. I'm excited for this one. Fires and lies seem to follow this person everywhere. And she's absolutely nuts. She's currently on death row for killing her husband and two children in their home. My main sources for my research for today's show are the book Deadly Confidant written by Nancy Whitmore Poore and articles from the Idaho Statesman.

Stephanie 1:16

Idaho Statesman always has the tea.

Dani 1:19

They were always in everybody's business.

Stephanie 1:24

The Statesman. Is that girl. Really?

Dani 1:29

Like, remember when Creech sued? Yeah. Yeah. Going back however many years, if something scandalous happened, they were on it. Well, it was either, it's like that or they're selling. So during my research, do you know how many Three row crop duster or crop things came up like plows and all that stuff. It was like row, row. It's all this farming equipment because of her last name. Anyway, I just like to say, Oh, and also Robin Hood, the movie. Very popular. It was in all of my searches and Robin Williams was in a lot of my searches because of like, playing at the real theater. Yeah, pretty much. Yeah that's what it was. And I was like, ugh, not the right. Anyway. Okay. I'm excited for this one. Fires, many fires. That's all I know about this case. I'm, and I'm, I got to hear about this lady. Robin Lee Rowe was born on September 12th, 1957. She and her sister Tammy both have claimed to have a bad childhood. Their father was an alcoholic and their mother was unloving. And when I say unloving she was, in one, in part of my research Rowe claimed that her mother never told her that she loved her. That kind of unloving. So, very distant, very cold mother. Okay. In 1976, Rowe's father, Charles Cornelier, pleaded guilty to murder. Oh. Didn't see that one coming, did ya? Uh, wow, runs in the family. Yeah. He had shot a man during a botched robbery attempt of an antique dealer in New Hampshire and was sentenced to life. Yeah. And he, little, just a little, yeah. Who's robbing an antiques dealer? I didn't know that was a prime, uh, And when he went to jail, Robin was like 18. That had to have a big A big impact. Not enough impact to be murdering people. But, um The wrong impact. Yeah. No excuses. I mean, it would be hard, but she was an adult. So And he also, just a little, you know, I go down the rabbit hole, her dad got the head chef fired from the prison because he, the head chef was letting him make uh, Mess. No. Drinking. Wine? Or alcohol? Yeah. Letting him have a little, what do they call it, hooch? Is that what they call it? Yeah, hooch, yeah. Prison hooch in the kitchen. And he got so drunk That it all came out because, like, he was being, like, a total They're like, sir, you're clearly intoxicated. Yeah, you're such a mess. Where did this come from? And was getting in fights with people and stuff, and they found out. Anyway, little side note. Okay. Okay, Charles the murderer and snitch to a friend that was just, like, letting you make some sweet, sweet prison wine. Yes. In 1974, Ro we had her first child. His name is Keith Cornelier. And in 1975, she had her second child, Christina Cornelier. In 1976 Rowe waved a probable cause hearing on two counts of forgery, and she did 10 to 11 months in jail. Dang. You know, and she had two babies. Yeah, where were they? As far as my research, her sister, Tammy, took care of the kids a lot. Her younger sister, Tammy. Thanks, Tammy. I feel bad for Tammy. No kidding. In 1977, 15 month old Christina May Cornelia died on January 31st of sudden infant death syndrome in New Hampshire. The baby died at Rowe's parents house. She and the baby were staying there because there was a fire in the apartment below Rowe's. Now I just have to elaborate a little bit on this. SIDS is typically not seen in 15 month old children. Isn't it younger? Yes, a lot younger. So a bit of an anomaly here. Just a few months later on March 19th, Rowe married Wayne Hamilton. Hamilton was in the Marine Corps. A few weeks into the marriage, there was a fire in their home. Wayne had went to bed, but Rowe decided to sleep on the couch, which she had never done before. Wayne woke up in the middle of the night when he heard crackling coming from a top dresser drawer. Luckily, Wayne was able to put out the fire. He chalked it up to be in some kind of weird accident. There was a can of gunpowder on top of the dresser, which was making some crackling noises and that's what woke him up. But he just was like, that was weird. Spontaneous combustion, I suppose. One night, soon after the fire, Wayne came home to find Rowe and Keith missing. They had just disappeared. Rowe returned home about a day and a half later with a crazy story about where she was and later it was discovered that Rowe's disappearance was, Rowe's disappearance was because she was arrested for writing bad checks. He also assumed her missing wedding ring that she said she had lost had been pawned to make her bail. Yeah. A day and a half turnaround without the help of your spouse has got to be pretty quick. Sneaky bitch. Who was it? Tammy? She's got a friend somewhere. On May 20th, Rowe is charged with obtaining a money order under false pretenses. She had bounced a 66 check. Doesn't seem like a lot of money, but this was, you know, in the 70s. She was sentenced to four years in prison. Ooh, goodness. During her sentencing, it was discovered that she was four and a half months pregnant. She only served seven months at the Correctional Center for Women in Raleigh, North Carolina. For But unsure if she had a child from that pregnancy, so I can't find anything to correlate with that, that she had that baby. A baby from that time? Okay. Yeah. In March of 1978, Rowe was granted parole. Wayne was done with her and told her to get out. He's like, bye, you're crazy. Rowe's son, Keith, had been living with her sister, Terri, and Terri's daughter in New Hampshire. Is this a different sister? Did I call her Tammy? It's been Terri. It's Terri. Tammy Terri. It's my bad. Terri. Who knows. It's my bad. I'm so sorry. Kids were with Terri. Terri. In New Hampshire. So, she was taking care of her. When Wayne had kicked Rowe out, she went back to New Hampshire. Little Keith was still living with his hands. But Rowe did not move in. Sounds like there was some tension there. I don't think she wanted her sister there. I just kind of And I tried to I did research where she was living. I think she was living her own lifestyle. I mean We have all met people that children are not the first thing in their life. And so I think she just really was like, Oh, he's been living here. He's good. He's safe. You're not coming to live here though. But yeah, no, she did. Rowe did have a key to her sister's apartment though. So she could come and go as she pleased to see Keith. Terry was awakened by screams from the children. The apartment was on fire. And when is this? In 78. Both ways outta the apartment were blocked by fire. But Terry is a badass. She grabbed both of the children and ran through the flames. Oh my gosh. To get them out. Yeah, and the fire apartment couldn't find a specific reason for the fire. They just labeled it electrical. They're just like, we don't know what happened. If we don't know it's electrical. That's the rule. Obviously. I kind of feel like that is a thing. They're like, electric electricity is crazy. No one knows how that shit works. It's like magic, essentially. Yeah, it just, boom, fire. In 1980 January, Rowe moved to Northern California. Rowe had a friend out there, Debbie Green. Debbie let Rowe and her son Keith stay at one of her unoccupied cabins. When I say cabin, I mean cabin. Like rustic. Yeah. There was like one light in the middle of the living area. Like it was, it was rustic. On June Rowe, Rowe put six year old Keith to bed. So they had went out into town with a bunch of friends and had some drinks at the bar and stuff and she got home about 12 45. Okay. And then she put Keith to bed, which six years old, one o'clock, come on make better parenting choices. His bedroom, Keith's bedroom consisted of an enclosed porch, just to get an idea of Interesting. Okay. The porch had two doors, one to the outside and one to the living room. At 130 a. m The neighbors were woke up by banging on their door. They found Rowe outside screaming and smoke coming from Rowe's home. Rowe told her neighbors that Keith was in the bathroom. They broke the window to the bathroom, but could not see Keith. Then Rowe stated he was actually in his bedroom. When the neighbor tried to open the door to the outside, he was unable to open it'cause it was padlocked from the inside. Okay. The neighbor then went into the fire trying to find the child. When he reached the door, the bedroom, there was a couch in front of the other door, and it was slightly askew like it had been. The door had been pushed, and like, the couch, the couch was out a little bit from the door, but the door was still blocked. Oh my gosh. He tried to find Keith, but the smoke was too bad, and he just had to get out of the house. This neighbor was really trying. Yes. The fire is so intense. Even if the fire isn't in that same room, just the amount of smoke, it's like, Holding your breath to go underwater. He was crawling on the floor trying to reach and like feel

Stephanie 12:45

around in an unfamiliar house where you don't even know oh, I just go past the oven and I go, I can easily remember. Yeah, awesome neighbors

Dani 12:55

trying to get

Stephanie 12:56

in there. Trying to help.

Dani 12:57

Yeah. By morning, nothing was left of the home after the blaze except for the limestone foundation. Wow. Cause it was an old cabin. They said it was some specific kind of pine that was really, like, boom. Well, I

Stephanie 13:12

wonder if there's probably not fire hydrants around here. I mean, I'm just guessing. Right. No, they were,

Dani 13:19

it was in a very rural area. Little Keith was found in his bedroom and he had died from smoke inhalation.

Stephanie 13:28

And he was six.

Dani 13:29

He was six. Rowe told investigators she suspected Keith started playing, started the fire, playing with a heater switch. So he had a a space heater in there. She claimed that he played with it a lot, turning the light on and off. But the heater was found, pressed up against the mattress. And you know, maybe, maybe water, I don't know. But, kinda

Stephanie 13:55

odd. Oh, and the padlock? The padlock, I can somewhat understand. If your child's room is in an area with a porch, or a door out to a balcony you don't want them on. I wouldn't want my

Dani 14:06

child to be able to go outside at 6.

Stephanie 14:09

No, so I could kind of understand that, but why is the couch there?

Dani 14:15

Oh, Keith was found with his kitten. He had a little kitty. A

Stephanie 14:20

six year old. This is awful.

Dani 14:22

Rowe denied having any insurance to investigators. Police said Rowe made contradictory statements, but nothing was specific enough to foul play. Evidence was presented to a grand jury, but Rowe was not indicted. Rowe collected 28, 000 in life insurance.

Stephanie 14:43

And

Dani 14:46

that's a lot of money then. The policy was purchased just one month before the fire on Little Keith.

Stephanie 14:53

One month before?

Dani 14:56

This is insane. She has a thing for double indem double indemnity. Oh my gosh, if I can Double indemnity. Thank you. Policies where if you die from an accident, it doubles the policy.

Stephanie 15:11

That's an interesting thing to know and research back then, cause you can't just Google that. You have to, like, know someone that knows about this stuff read the policies and really,

Dani 15:21

She was a big mail order. You remember, like, when we were kids, even when my son was little, uh, they had, like, the Gerber plan or whatever where you could just order it out of a magazine. That was her fave. Her fave. In 1981, she had another son, Joshua Cornelier. He was born in December of that year, and In May of 1982, Rowe was charged with stealing 5, 000 from a business in Weavervale, California. Rowe had been hired to do the books in late 1981. The owner of the business started to get suspicious after checks started bouncing. Oh, a little suspish. A little suspish. What's going on? I have this business. I have a new bookkeeper and now they're threatening to shut off my lights. What's going on? Roe was not depositing all of the funds that

Stephanie 16:20

I'm sure it was a complete accident. She probably dropped them on the way there. Total accident. She loves these financial crimes. She's like, man, she's a scammer. Scammer.

Dani 16:34

Rowe pled guilty in July and was sentenced to nine months in prison and three years probation. And along with this she had, there was she had to pay her back. There was like monthly payments that she had to pay back to this woman.

Stephanie 16:48

Goodness. I'm sure she paid it all back expediently.

Dani 16:54

And I also have to just tell you that she did like insurance fraud on her truck because after she got that money, she bought like a brand new truck and a mobile home. And when she ran out of money, she was like, I don't want this car anymore. And the dealership was like, whoopsie, it doesn't work that way. So it got stolen one time and it was found. With a little bit of damage. So her insurance fixed the damage instead of totaling it. Have it back.

Stephanie 17:28

And then the next time she made sure it was fixed. Good and done. I thought you were gonna say she wrecked the truck into the house to try to get a double whammy like Totaled the truck home insurance.

Dani 17:39

Love it. I would not put a pass. I thought of

Stephanie 17:42

that yet. She's like, man I'm not a twofer on this one.

Dani 17:46

Dang it. Um her and her sister Terry was also come down to stay with her for a little bit, and she was mad at Terry because Terry was like, call the police. Am I still in your car? And she's like, don't you, why don't you mind your own business, kind of stuff. Yeah. It's totally sketchy. Drama. So, after all of this stuff, in 1985, Rowe moved to Reading, California. While she was there, she became really good friends with her neighbor, Ruth Montgomery. Now, Ruth and her, oh. Step back just a half a second. She ended up in Reading because when she was in junior high Jail. There was a couple that was taking care of Keith in Reading, California. They ended up being like godparents to Keith and were a very important part of Rowe's life down there. They bought her, they were not rich people, they bought her a brand new manufactured home in a trailer park because they still wanted to be close to Keith, right? So they're like, just live here. Just live here, we'll get you set up. This is where she became friends with Ruth Montgomery. Wow. So they were hanging out. They both had children. They would help each other out so Ruth and her became really good friends. Sure. They watched, each other's houses, watched each other's kids. They were like besties. So much so that, uh, Ruth had even given her a key to her mailbox to check the mail when she was working. There was high theft of mail back then, but apparently.

Stephanie 19:27

Well, and just having an alternate address for things back then could have come in handy. Rowe ended up stealing

Dani 19:36

money from her.

Stephanie 19:37

Shocker. Not from Ruth. Come on. Gotta leave one person out of it so you can at least have someone that's willing to bail you out.

Dani 19:47

And she took checks from Ruth and then was monitoring her mailbox for Ruth's bank statements. So she goes to snag the bank statements so Ruth didn't know. And this became something so, like, Ruth almost lost her house. She stole that much money. She had bounced checks everywhere, like it was a big deal. And she's

Stephanie 20:07

just thinking it's some anomaly or mistake with the bank because she's like, Surely my bank would have notified me.

Dani 20:13

Yeah, it's it. Like

Stephanie 20:15

there's no apps here. There's no notification. And it ruined her credit.

Dani 20:18

It was just destruction everywhere this woman goes. A fire broke out in Ruth's house.

Stephanie 20:27

This is just so many coinkydinks. This is already, I mean, I'm just looking at our timeline here. Fire, fire, fire. Um, this has escalated very quickly. It,

Dani 20:38

it really has.

Stephanie 20:40

This has not even been like, 10 years, I don't think.

Dani 20:44

She's all about the fire and the forgery and stealing. She's just, I don't know.

Stephanie 20:52

This is from, this has not even been 10 years from when I think the first fire, was the Christmas fire the first, or the

Dani 20:59

First fire was underneath her house her apartment.

Stephanie 21:02

Oh, underneath the apartment, okay.

Dani 21:04

Uh, in

Stephanie 21:05

77. Yeah, so it hasn't been 10 years. We're in 85, right? Yeah, she's This is a lot of fires. 10 years. Just in the places that are around her that are on record. And she doesn't, oh!

Dani 21:18

The fire broke out in Ruth's daughter's bedroom behind a cabinet. In a kid's bedroom? But, she wasn't home. I think that she was staying Somewhere I, I don't know where she was staying, but she, she definitely wasn't home Investigators, suspected arson, but cannot prove it. And then little Tabitha Cornelia is born October 13th, 1985. In 1986 late 86 Rowe bounced and forged$1,700 in worth of checks in Shasta County, California. She was charged. She was charged for welfare fraud. Goodness. For not disclosing the 1, 700 as income by receiving benefits. You didn't even tell us about your stolen

Stephanie 22:09

bounce

Dani 22:09

checks. Money. I

Stephanie 22:10

thought that was funny. You have to tell us about that if you want to get benefits.

Dani 22:14

So she got in trouble for the forgery, but then she also got caught a welfare fraud charge for not disclosing the stolen money. Yeah, you didn't tell us about the free money you got from the bank.

Stephanie 22:26

I just thought that was funny. Oh is that in the fine print? If you have been balancing any like the chase. Yeah. Thing that's been going on. I wrote myself a 30, 000 check and, and withdrew it immediately and now my account's overdrawn 30, 000. It's a hack. Yeah. Life hack. Look at this money cheat. It's like a video game where you can easily double your money. Simple. Make sure the check is from yourself and into your own account and you withdraw it using your own identification. You're a genius. So she's in all kinds of trouble with this stuff. She would have been on TikTok pushing the Chase scam if it was today. She'd be like, guys, this is too easy. We're going to do this. Like and subscribe for more. No

Dani 23:15

one's going to catch you. I'm, I'm going to teach you how to, I mean, dressers seem to be your thing with the fires too. Let me show you how to start a fire in a dresser.

Stephanie 23:25

They'll think it's electricity every time.

Dani 23:27

Every time. Guaranteed. In 1987, Rowe arrived in Boise with her two children in tow. Les Bois. Rowe stated she had been abandoned by her husband in Winnemucca, Nevada.

Stephanie 23:44

Not Winnemucca. Yes. What a terrible place to be abandoned. That place is awful.

Dani 23:51

She was welcomed with food, housing, and even a job when she arrived in Boise. The YMCA done her good. Thank you, YMCA. They got her going. Yes,

Stephanie 24:05

they do.

Dani 24:06

She said her husband had slapped her during an argument. This is what, when her husband abandoned her. I apologize. She said her husband had slapped her during an argument, and they had stopped at a gas station. While she was taking her children to the restroom, her husband took off. Rowe stated her husband took off with everything, even her driver's license. But she did have 50 in her pocket after putting a quarter in a slot machine earlier and hitting big. And that was how she was able to purchase the tickets, the bus tickets to Boise. Lucky gal. In reality, she was on the run and her car had broke down. YMCA,

Stephanie 24:48

I hope we have better background check opportunities.

Dani 24:53

This was before the intramet. Yeah.

Stephanie 24:55

In

Dani 24:56

1988. Rowe meant Randy Rowe at her friend's Polly's house. At the time Randy was dating Polly.

Stephanie 25:07

Oh goodness, what a great friend as well. The best with friends like this. Who needs enemies? She'll just She probably stole her checkbook too. She might burn down your house. She might steal all your money. She might let you buy a house for her and then you might lose your house because you're she's stealing all your money. Besties.

Dani 25:30

Well, Rowe and Randy had hit it off so well that they went home together that first night and after that it was one and done. It wasn't, it, like, like, no. First night. You're coming home with me. Only after two and a half months, they were married. She was not messing. She said, this is the man I need. I just can't believe she went to her friend's house and stole her boyfriend. The first

Stephanie 25:57

night. Yeah. Polly's like, I'm so glad you're here, friend. Come over. I have a welcome a little snack for us. Meet my boyfriend. Do you want a cocktail? Yeah, I can't wait for you to meet my boyfriend. And she's like, listen, Polly, love him. We're gonna go. Yeah. Thank you. I know we've been here for 45 minutes. We're gonna go. Have a great night. Have a great life. Bye.

Dani 26:22

Yeah, she's something else. In 1989, Randy Rowe was in a motorcycle accident that left him with brain damage. He was in the hospital for months. So he had driven his motorcycle into another vehicle. So somebody didn't hit him, he hit them. And of course he had to leave his job after the accident and they were financially struggling. And one of their neighbors had wrote to a local radio station about their plight and the radio station bought gifts for Christmas and gave them money for clothes and gas. one of those charitable Charitable

Stephanie 27:00

thing.

Dani 27:02

She's using

Stephanie 27:03

all her resources.

Dani 27:04

She really is. She really, really Resourceful. She's very resourceful. So she was working at the Y, the YMCA. Yeah, that's where. And she

Stephanie 27:17

got the job from the YMCA. There's actually an

Dani 27:20

article in the Statesman that talk about how successful the YMCA is and it's a silhouette of Rowe with her two children looking up

27:28

She was one of their success stories. She was a scammer to the highest degree. This is off the charts piece of shit behavior. With the, I mean, especially defrauding your friends. That is wild to me. Repeatedly. Repeatedly. And that's one thing that, I mean, I told you, I didn't tell you the story, but I was like, This is a very bad person and she is just, everywhere she goes it's all, I don't think she ever told the truth about any, like I can't, okay there's one time, later. Okay. Cliffhanger. No, but you told me that this was going to be wild and I was not expecting this. A scammer, con artist, professional, arsonist, has no boundaries of who she won't hurt. Do you know when I think about poor Ruth Montgomery, and I bet you that bitch had a fucking life insurance policy on her best friend. She's like, I just got to fill out this little postcard I found on the back of a magazine. I'm betting you. Why else would she set her she had her mail, she probably had her social, oh yeah. And back then, they didn't hide all that stuff. You weren't getting XXXX, you know, 1234 as your social, like. No, it was just on everything. Printed on everything. And also, your driver's license number used to be your social. Yep. So, this is crazy. In October, 1989, there was a fire at the Boise YMCA, which destroyed part of the homeless shelter. Rowe was the shelter coordinator at the time. The fire was started in a coat closet and also in the front room of the duplex. Cause they had several houses for, for, yeah, the fire in the front room only burned a hole in the carpet. It was declared arson, but nobody was arrested. Only like four people had keys to that place. It was locked. Only four people. Guess who was one of them? Rowe. Yeah. Like the other one was the other coordinator, and I think it was like two janitors or something. Yeah, so how are they not like, I need everyone's alibis. It's a 25 percent chance here. It's like, well, yeah. But also it is a homeless shelter, a lot of people coming and going, but nothing was stolen. They couldn't find anything. This is just wild to me since she benefited so much from the YMCA. I mean, they set her up with A job, money, a place to live, and now she's working for them, helping other people who, she's mostly struggled due to her own choices, but maybe you would think she was trying to redeem herself by helping others and being like, Oh, let's get you in. But it's like, why would you do this? I don't know what her motivation was. I'm, I think, and this might be a stretch, that maybe she had stolen some donations that were in the office that she didn't want people to know about. And then she could claim it. I don't know what her Like, oh, this was probably whoever set that fire. Maybe she just had the urge. You know, you ever get an urge to like It sounds like she's very obsessed really want to go fishing, or I really need to go shopping. Maybe she just had an urge to set a fucking fire. This is crazy. In 1991, Rowe, who had claimed to have worked with bingo before in California, convinced her employer to let her run the Center's charity bingo operations. Great choice, yes, of course. Just want to let you know, she never If playing bingo is working bingo, she'd done that. She was probably working it, some type of scam, with the bingo people. She was a bingo junkie. She really was. I bet, because there's little like scams and treachery that goes on at some bingos, where if you know the people that are calling, at least like back then, there, it was like lottery fraud almost, where they would pull the certain number or say that they pulled a certain number or have it like rigged in a way that Yeah, her and Ruth Montgomery used to play bingo a lot together. Play. Not working the bingo. I don't even know what the technical term is. Running a bingo parlor? Yeah, I don't go to a slot machine and be like, Yes, I have experience in gambling and running a casino. I can run your casino. Yeah, let's go. Of course I could. Mirage, I'm there. I've been there so many times. So, I'm pretty sure I could run this fucking place. But back then, you could especially put something on a, on a resume or a job application and Well, and she'd been there for so many years, like she was the coordinator. People loved her. She would go tell her stories to people and get like these massive donations. Let me tell you, I was one of those people that was homeless and needed and look what the Y did for me. Look, I'm this person And she would get the Albertsons wives donated so much money. It was like a group of, you know, we know Albertsons here, right? So there was a group of women that did a lot of charitable work and they were just nicknames. They're like, this is our girl. No. Albertsons. They probably had a little meeting with her and they're like, can you believe that Robyn Rowe? What an inspirational story. We should give money so that we can help more people. People just need a hand up. That's it. And the Y is going to do that for them. Give, give, give. Look at her in this article. She's searching for money. Okay. The program lost so much money they had to shut down less than a year after opening. So once again, are we not like, gee, this has always been a nice event for us that gives us some money. Even if it doesn't get much money, it's not underwater and being shut down. And now miraculously, this is less than a year later or one year later. It's defunct. It's so two days after the business shut down, Rowe's apartment was burnt down. So two days after she lost her job, it's all coming to a head. I feel like some of it's for sympathy points. Some of these are of like, I need people to rally around me because I know that, and that is so awful. It's pathetic. She's a user and a manipulator. And an arsonist. I know we've all had friends or friends of GoFundMe and you don't know the family but you're like, my friend knows this family and I'm not saying to not do that. Keep doing that. But this is what she was taking advantage of. Can you imagine her GoFundMes if she was able to do them right now? She would be viral on TikTok. She'd be one of those ones that's on live 24 7 being like, guys, I just need 300 more dollars for my car payment. Who can help? And people are just like donating. She just spends 20, 20 hours per day on live. Wow. In January. So we're going to go back just a little bit, right? Let's reverse. In January of 1992, Rowe started showing up to work with bandages and wraps on her body. She even came in, and this is when she was working the bingo the bingo hall, parlor. That's gonna drive me nuts. She even came in with her ribs wrapped up. She was telling everybody in confidence, like all different co workers, don't say anything, but Randy's beating me, but don't tell anybody. So she was telling multiple co workers about Randy's. beating her up, and then she'd show up with bandages and all this stuff, but none of the co workers were talking to each other, right? Because it was in confidence. That's surprising. Usually you get at least one that's like, do you know, has Miss Rowe told you anything interesting lately? And then if they're like, well, she did tell me something about some bandages, and they're like, girl, she told me too. Told me Randy's been beating on her. So that's surprising that they weren't, there wasn't one that was like, Have you heard? Well, Rowe, when she was running this bingo place I'm gonna call so many different names. Carla. She was getting it done. She was getting her hair done, her nails done.

Dani 36:13

Nails done like spending hours at the salon. Every week. She's buying new clothes. She was becoming pretty uppity about herself.

Stephanie 36:22

Again, another red flag where it's like we just put Miss Robin Rowe in charge of our bingo parlor. I like that. It sounds fancy, and although we literally are underwater where we never have been. Gosh, does she look good? She's a fashionista. Did she buy a convertible? She didn't really do that. I don't think. No, it was

Dani 36:45

a 1985 Mazda.

Stephanie 36:47

Actually, I don't think that's in the research. I'm just making it up, but it's like gosh, she has a brand new condo. It's right 3, 000 square feet, like good for her and all for making it on this minimum wage charity volunteer work, whatever it is. Well, she

Dani 37:10

was getting paid to do it, but not paid enough to be, I couldn't go spend hours at the week at a salon. I mean, no

Stephanie 37:19

salon. She's getting pampered. She's like, sorry about your parlor, but my nails look amazing.

Dani 37:26

Hair did. Her closest friend, Joan McHugh was really, really worried about Rowe. In late 1990, Joan McHugh, And Rowe meant when Joan had sought help at the YMCA homeless day shelter where Rowe was working. Rowe helped Joan find housing and get settled. I'm, there was amazing things that the Y did back then. They're like, oh, we got our fully furnished apartment, but like they, a safety net. Yeah. Rowe would help Joan find housing and get settled. Within two months, Joan was working at the YMCA as well. And weeks before the fire, Rowe told Joan she planned to divorce Randy. This is weeks before her house, her house fire. Rowe told Joan she planned to divorce Randy and take the kids to Seattle. Joan kept asking Rowe to call the police when the abuse was happening. Finally, Rowe told Joan why she couldn't call the police. She said that Randy had something on her from her past. Rowe then told Joan about an incident that happened in California. When Tabitha was just two years old. While Rowe was separated from her then husband, the little girl had pulled a pot of boiling water off the stove and suffered burns that required a hospital stay. While little Tabitha was in recovery, Rowe's husband showed back up demanding to see the child. Rowe refused and they got into a physical fight that ended with Rowe stabbing her husband. Rowe stated that she was arrested and charged with the assault with intent to kill. This is also a lie. All of it? Mmhmm. The part about her stabbing her husband and

Stephanie 39:17

being

Dani 39:18

charged. She's like, I could go to jail forever. And you're gonna, you're gonna see why she was doing this. You're gonna, you're gonna see, wow, why she was keeping Randy

Stephanie 39:34

at home. Separate. Everyone's separate. Everyone's separate. Compartmentalized. Yep.

Dani 39:39

Rowe also explained to Joan that she's been keeping a journal of all the abuse that Randy's been doing and set up a separate bank account to save her own money. She ended up having like seven bank accounts, by the way.

Stephanie 39:52

And this is like the exact advice that you would give someone going through DV, which I'm sure she encountered multiple women actually going through this. Oh yeah, because of the lie. She was there. They probably had a handbook for it. So she's like, oh, okay. Just so you know, I am trying to take care of this on my own time. Please don't say anything. I need to do it. But don't get

Dani 40:13

mad that I'm not calling the cops because I don't want to go to jail. I want to go to prison. So I just gotta leave. I gotta just leave him in the middle of the night. We just need to keep our space, keep quiet. Just let me handle this, right? One night, Rowe even told Joan that Randy had tied her up to the bed and raped her. And she said the next door neighbors called the police after hearing the screams. Rowe said that Randy was arrested that night and would be on court, in court on February 18th to face charges. This is very important because that is also not true. But she told Joan I got

Stephanie 40:49

this. This whole story which of course would garner So much support and sympathy and empathy to oh my gosh, my friend is really going through it. Like I need to, she's trying to handle it. There's a court date. I just need to support her. He's

Dani 41:05

been arrested. He's gotten out, but he's gonna be back in court on February 18th. So just, I have to just hang on for a couple more weeks. Just be patient with me. I'm not gonna call the cops if something happens. Just be patient with me. Randy though, had suspicion that Rowe was having an affair. With Joan McHugh's adult son, Danny. No. No. Her son. But he was like 31. Joan was older. Joan was like a grandma to the kids.

Stephanie 41:39

So he was 31. Do we know how old our gal Miss Rowe is?

Dani 41:45

92. So. She was born

Stephanie 41:48

in 57.

Dani 41:50

35? 37. 36, something like that, 34.

Stephanie 41:53

Oh, okay, so she, they're close. Yeah, it wasn't, it wasn't like, But still, the ew is from your friend's son. I have friends that are older than me, where their kids are close in age to me, and I can't imagine that.

Dani 42:09

But I mean, it wasn't inappropriate as far as that was. Like, it wasn't like he was 17 or something. He was an adult.

Stephanie 42:15

Consenting adults, but still, your best friend's son that you're telling your These literal soap operas too and she did and he also worked at the bingo hall and Joan did So you wonder were they both in on was she? Manipulating so she could do what she needed to do to get that money like what a web

Dani 42:38

Well, she is no My reading and I couldn't find a picture of him, but Danny was supposed to be pretty handsome.

Stephanie 42:48

Really? Yeah

Dani 42:50

Pretty good looking and smart and Robin Rowe is a frumpy, I don't care how much you get your hair done, get your nails done. She was frumpy. She.

Stephanie 43:04

She

Dani 43:04

wasn't

Stephanie 43:05

prom queen. No. Okay. I wasn't prom queen by any means. Me either. But interesting how these relationships come together.

Dani 43:14

So Randy, because all of this was going on Rowe was staying. on and off at her friend Joan's house with Danny. Danny lived there. But no, like, but she was sleeping on the couch. I bet there was

Stephanie 43:28

things happening. Uh, there probably

Dani 43:30

was, more than I know about. so Randy was calling and leaving really profane messages on Joan's answering machine. But he also just said he wanted Ro to come home. He loved his wife. One threat that was left on the answering machine was that she better get home before something bad happens. So you know what Joan said? Jones thinking and her brain murder planning a murder. Yeah, Jones thinking he's gonna call the police and she's gonna get in trouble for stabbing her Ex husband.

Stephanie 44:02

Oh Threatening the blackmail.

Dani 44:04

Yes three days before the fire, Rowe continues to complain about her marriage and started staying full time at Joan's home. When Rowe went to pick up her kids from school, Randy was already there to pick them up. Cause he wasn't working. He was just collecting his, he was a stay at home dad essentially. And Rowe was out and about all night running the bingo parlor. All night, all day. Yeah. And then going and have coffee with Joan and Danny after everybody closed down and running to the bank. Was she? Sorry, I couldn't help it. So Randy was already there to pick up the kids from school. Like that was his jam. Like he did that. And he would not let the kids go with her. He's like, no, they're not going with you. Rowe went to a payphone and told Joan that she had called the sheriff's office and reported Randy had stolen the kids. Because these are his stepkids. They're not his. But he was raising them. They probably never saw her. It doesn't sound like she was around. That was not I can for sure, for sure, ultimate confidence, I'm going to tell you. Robyn Rowe was not, being a mother was not her first role, by any means. And in a lot of stuff that I read, her kids were always clean and tidy, but again, very unloving. There's not a lot of nurturing there,

Stephanie 45:45

Because I wonder when she would have even had time to clean the kids. She was, she had a very busy life.

Dani 45:52

Outer life. And when you have a parent that works nights like that they're sleeping all day. Mm hmm. And we get that, both of us.

Stephanie 46:03

I had that dynamic where one parent worked days and one parent worked nights and the one that worked nights watched me through the day and the watching was, to make sure you didn't read a book or turn on a TV show. Mm hmm.

Dani 46:16

Yeah. So, I, I don't think that she was involved in getting the kids up to go to school in the morning. And I mean, I never read this, but also from my experience, having a mother that was a bartender coming home, at two or three o'clock in the morning, you need a couple hours to shut your brain down. There was no, it was, I was doing it on my own in the morning. Get up, go to school, so, but even though that she had told Joan, she stopped and she did pick up the phone. Cause she was with Joan and she picked up a phone at the gas station and said she called the sheriff's office. But the Ada County Sheriff said they have no record of a reported kidnapping. Hmm. On February 10th, Rowe woke up early in the morning. She went down and washed some clothes and did some other chores. Before waking up Joan, stating she had an ominous feeling that something was wrong. They drove over to Rowe's house at 5. 30 in the morning and it was in flames. Randy, Joshua, and Tabitha had died in the house fire from smoke inhalation. Detectives suspected arson quickly after it was discovered the fire was started in two different places within the townhome. Dead giveaway. After the fire, Joan asked if Rowe had any life insurance policies to help pay for the funerals. Rowe stated she had a small amount on her children that she had through work, but nothing on Randy. The county ended up paying for the cremation and the burial plots were donated. Robin rushed the memorial service. So it was supposed to be almost a week later, but she had it on two days after. So she was having friends the ones that were taking care of, that bought her the mobile home, taking care of her kids. Keith? Joshua. Okay. Joshua. Yeah. You know, the ones that bought her the house and wanted to be close with her and all that stuff were supposed to come and she called and was like, Oh no, just never mind. She couldn't even wait for that.

Stephanie 48:46

And especially to think of losing two children and your husband, even if you're estranged or there's issues, like that's a life change, even if you don't have any emotional attachment, because then it's That's a different support. So to rush that to two days after who has the wherewithal to do that?

Dani 49:06

And why? There was really no reason for it. So she wanted to get the memorial over with and ended up just being two days after the fire. Randy's family did not want him to be cremated. And that's when Rowe told her mother in law, You take care of Randy and I'll take care of the children. Randy's And the things I read, it was a very cold, it was like a 15 minute service, because it was rushed, and it was just like your basic, nobody was getting up and talking for long periods

Stephanie 49:40

of time, or They're just like reading the eulogy, probably reading a prayer before, a prayer after, and a eulogy. I feel like that is at least 10 minutes. And then with getting everyone seated. It was super cold.

Dani 49:54

It was just a weird thing.

Stephanie 49:56

Checking

Dani 49:56

and probably a lot of people were still in shock. Not Rowe, but a lot of people. And I do have to tell you, I couldn't, I was unable to find any like personality quirks on, on Joshua, but Tabby is what she went by Tabitha. She was just like this happy little go lucky chatterbox that was just talking all the time and Joan McHugh was like a grandmother to her and just so that she was Devastated, I'm sure. She was devastated and but she said she was such a fun, fun gal, fun little gal So that it's sad to think of somebody who was so perky and she was very girly You know, nails painted and hair up and even though she was only eight. This is awful. It's Rowe is a nasty bitch. I don't even know how else to say it. I don't even know. She's a horrible, horrible person.

Stephanie 50:56

And just looking at the logistics of this, of you and I had talked about this on our little, we had a little break. I know times were different, so maybe fires were more prevalent. But I, knowing someone that's been involved in two fires that kill their children, plus all of these other fires, I don't, I've lost count. I would have to go back on my notes and count, but of, oh, a fire below my apartment, oh, a fire in my friend's house, oh, a fire in my other friend's house. There is so much fire this is a, it cannot be a coincidence amount of fire, and I know that they weren't able to find the cause on these, and, again, technology was different, and I'm sure how they investigated fires was different. But especially finally, at least they can see, well, this started in two places at once, so obviously that doesn't really happen. But, stop setting these fires,

Dani 51:55

Ms. Rowe!

Stephanie 51:56

It's just,

Dani 51:57

I do not personally know anybody whose house has caught on fire. And yes, knock on wood. But to know so many people who have had fires and children dying in fires. And it's happened to yourself.

Stephanie 52:12

Five times of your own personal property or the property right by you. She's a gem.

Dani 52:20

She's a fucking gem. So three days later on february 13th, Rowe was arrested on felony grand theft charges after police found Property belonging to her employer, the YMCA, at various locations. She stole over 1, 000 from the YMCA, bingo. When detectives were searching for evidence for the murders, They discovered 1, 297 in Rowe car and in Joe McHugh's apartment. Rowe had claimed that money was destroyed in the fire. Because she went down. So she wants to get reimbursed for that as well. She went down the day of the funeral or the day before to the YMCA to pick up her last check. Because remember, she'd just gotten fired. And they were like, well, we need the money, your keys for you to get your last check. And she's like, oh, that went up in the fire. Oh, how convenient. Rowe had claimed that the money was destroyed in the fire. While being held, Rowe placed a call to her best friend, Joe McHugh, which was being secretly recorded by the Ada County sheriffs. Joan had given her permission to record the conversations. Rowe stated in one conversation with Joan that she had briefly left Joan's house that night. Of the fire, but did not go far. And I'm going to tell you something about Joan. I really feel bad for her. Because she really believed in Rowe Innocence.

Stephanie 54:00

So she allowed, she's the one that gave permission to Ada County. Yeah, she was recording them in her home. So she's the one that said, fine you can record these. Because at this time it sounds like maybe jailhouse recordings weren't a thing. It was not happening, which is mind blowing. So they had to get permission.

Dani 54:16

And they had a tape recorder at her house that she was recording on. But Joan's whole idea on this was that it was going to prove that She's like, my friend's going to come through and I will show up. And I'm going to show you that she's not guilty. Record the phone. She really, really did believe this. She was not being a sneaky person. She was like Trying to

Stephanie 54:40

call their bluff.

Dani 54:41

Yep. Listen to my phone calls with her. She did not do it. But then the police said to her, do us a favor. Just tell her that you woke up in the middle of the night. And came downstairs to get a drink of water and saw that she wasn't there and just see her reaction and see what she says. And so Joan did that and you're gonna hear what,

Stephanie 55:07

what she was like. Yeah, watch. She'll be like, maybe I was in the bathroom. I didn't go nowhere.

Dani 55:13

So I, Joan was just trying to protect Robin, protect those children. She was worried sick about those kids being with Randy because she's like, Randy's gonna kill him. Yeah, Rowe had built him up to be this big abuser. And he, he, From what we have seen, was not. I mean we get in our arguments, but no, she, her ribs were broke. Like she wrapped her ribs at work. Come on now. Oh, I feel really bad. I

Stephanie 55:46

feel really,

Dani 55:47

really bad for Joan.

Stephanie 55:48

Poor Joan. She was trying to be right or die. She's like, try my girl. You're gonna find out. She's fine. You're gonna see. So a few weeks later, Rowe was charged with

Dani 55:56

three counts of first degree murder. Rowe had taken out a thousand dollar, a hundred thousand dollar life insurance policy on her husband, Randy, and 2, 500 on each of her children before Randy's motorcycle accident, which kind of makes me think. But like, yeah, what was up with that? Despite the hardships they were having with money, Rowe kept those life insurance payments current.

Stephanie 56:28

The one payment she was not going to be behind on.

Dani 56:32

Ro had taken out five different life insurance policies out on her family between February 1989 and January 1992. They were valued up to 276, 000 depending on the circumstances of death because of the double indemnity. Thank you. I wasn't even going to try to say it. I didn't even know the term so now I feel super smart. The state of California California California had reached out to the state of Idaho and said they want to roll back to face charges for forgery if her charges were dropped here in Idaho. California had charged her with welfare fraud, perjury, and eight counts of forgery in May. Rowe pleads not guilty to the murder charges. She is facing the death penalty or life in prison if convicted. In June, the felony theft charges were dropped pending further investigation. They're like, we got bigger fish to fry. Yeah, we're not even, don't give a shit. And they used

Stephanie 57:31

to do that a lot, it seems. It's like, eh,

Dani 57:34

we don't care about you stealing money because you're a murderer.

Stephanie 57:36

Yeah, if they could, if they found, Bigger charges, they would just let go of some of your other ones and be like, hopefully we can pin you on this, where I feel like that isn't the case now. If you had a jaywalking, a shoplifting, a murder, and an arson, they wouldn't be like, let's forget the shoplifting and the jaywalking. I feel like they would still be like, You're guilty. Yeah,

Dani 57:59

but I love the state of California is like, hey, we're not done with her So if you're not gonna continue just let us know doing this We're gonna come get her.

Stephanie 58:10

Yeah

Dani 58:12

in 1993 Early, February the trial began Prosecutors allege her motives for murdering her family was she had a new boyfriend and the money the defense Admitted that there was problems in the marriage, but denied Rowe. It's at the fire You A delivery driver testified he saw a car similar to Rowe's in the area of her duplex on the morning of February 10th. I just have to say this too, they actually went, the detectives went up at the same time of year, the same time of day, just to see what the traffic flow was up there. They saw four cars in four hours and the delivery driver picked Rowe's car out of the impound lot and there was like a ton of cars. So, so he saw this car. He

Stephanie 59:07

saw this car. Cause that would be, me, I'm like, there was cars. I couldn't tell you what they were unless it's like a bright yellow with flames or like 20 flags on it. I'm not going to remember any make model car if nothing happened to me specifically regarding that car. I'm not going to remember. No.

Dani 59:28

So he, he was on it. Good for him. There was also testimony that stated the power to the second floor smoke alarm was turned off. Harold Hudson, a member of the Arson Task Force, stated two of the breakers were off in the circuit breaker panel. One was due to the fire, but one was manually switched off. That breaker supplied electricity to the children's bedrooms, the bathroom, and the upstairs smoke alarm.

Stephanie 59:58

This is extremely pre planned because she's realized, I feel like she's realized her mistakes over time. She's like, I'm not going to leave a crappling thing, a gunpowder next to it that's going to wake someone up and allow them to have an alarm and I'm going to cut off any

Dani 1:00:14

other alarm. And also she was on a timetable because Randy is supposed to be going to court. And then she's got to get back to the house and be asleep. Yeah. But she has to like get something done because she, Joan's like, call the police, call the police. She goes, no, because I don't want to. Randy's gonna turn me in for these other charges when I was just trying to protect my kid. So she had a very short timetable that if Randy wasn't in court by February 18th, how was she gonna explain that to Joan? Because she kept that very distant, pushing it off. Very separated. Poor me. My husband's beating me. Help me. Help me. Help me. But there's things in place that will resolve it. I can't call the police because then I'm gonna be in trouble. So just be patient because he's going. I Just in a couple weeks, he's going to have to go to court and then I'll just get the kids anyway. It was so many lies and so many manipulations there. Poor Joan. Poor kids. Poor Randy.

Stephanie 1:01:13

This is tough to keep track of just me. The lies! So imagine running this, plus running fraud scams on your bingo parlor, on your job on your friends, having to juggle that fraud. Subscribe. This is intense.

Dani 1:01:30

Fire officials stated the fire was started on the first floor of the duplex by a flammable liquid. A heavy petroleum residue was found on a wooden hatch door. The hatch door was in the floor of the stairwell closet, you know, for access, and the fire investigators believe this is where the fire started. she also started Also stated, a lighter liquid, like rubbing alcohol, was used in the living room carpet to spread the fire. Barbara Witt of the Idaho State Police testified she spent about two hours with Rowewe and Joe McHugh that morning of the fire. Witt was an emergency technician at the time. Witt had told that Randy and Joshua had been found, but they could not locate Tabby. When Joan suggested that Tabitha had escaped from the fire, Rowe responded, No, Tabitha's dead too.

Stephanie 1:02:26

How would you have any idea if he weren't there? I feel like your first response as a parent or even someone who just even knew this kid would have been like, Let's, we need a search, search party now. And

Dani 1:02:40

that's why Joan was sick, like she, because she took her up of this ominous feeling to check on this house, and it's on fire. And all these emergency techniques. So Joan would give you the natural reaction, which would be, maybe she got out. Let's find her. Not Rowe.

Stephanie 1:02:59

Oh no, she's definitely dead. Who says that? Any parent would, even if they're like, we think we found her, they'd be like, I want you to be sure because she might have got out somehow. Any parent. Why

Dani 1:03:12

are we not looking for this eight year old little girl outside? Yes.

Stephanie 1:03:15

So, you need to prove to me that she was in there and that she's dead, or else I'm believing that she's alive. And so

Dani 1:03:20

Joan had a natural reaction. We can't find, we can't find Tabby? Just say, nah, she's dead. No. Just, if, you don't have

Stephanie 1:03:27

to. Tabitha's dead too. You don't have to like search through all the ashes and everything, like you're really doing too much right now. She's dead.

Dani 1:03:36

Ro told Witt she had already lost a child in a fire before. She told them, she told her, they were able to pull me out of the fire but not my son. Which we know that that wasn't the case. Completely untrue! Rowe then told the firefighters that they might find Tabitha on the floor of the master bedroom. Whit also stated Ro did not cry the whole time she was there.

Stephanie 1:04:01

Why was she even giving these details? You know, I don't I wasn't even there or I wasn't anywhere near there. I definitely didn't leave and come here But I don't have a feeling she's on the floor in the master bedroom right by the nightstand about Two feet from the window. She didn't say those last parts. But yeah,

Dani 1:04:20

very strange Firefighters did find Tabby in the master bedroom So they only found her after. They found her under a bookcase that had fallen over and Some of this testimony that I read from these firefighters. This is gruesome. Yeah, they were sick because they were stepping over falling ceiling and all this debris. You're in

Stephanie 1:04:45

a thing that can collapse as well. So it's very dangerous.

Dani 1:04:48

While they're trying to get Randy out because he was a heavy dude and they Realized later that they have actually been stepping on that area where Tabby was. It's not knowing because there isn't a way to really discern. No, you have to start pulling stuff back. After Rowe said where she was. This is so awful. Ro's brother, Robert Ro, testified that Ro had stated in 89 that she would gain financially if Randy died from his injuries suffered in his motorcycle accident. When Rowe father asked how, when Randy Rowe's father asked how she would cope if Randy died, she said, I'll be 100, 000 ahead. Oh! These statements were made while visiting Randy in the hospital right after his motorcycle accident.

Stephanie 1:05:38

So she basically has created like crash out insurance for herself like, Oh, if I ever decide to just whack ya, yeah, I'll be rich.

Dani 1:05:49

Well, let's discuss these life insurance policies. One was purchased by Randy Rowe in April of 1989. It was an accidental death policy worth 191, There is no indication that Robyn Rowe was aware of the policy. Claim the manager of the insurance company. She knew, she knew, she knew.

Stephanie 1:06:13

She knows. Because back then, she would know and if it was just a mail in thing where it was like female back then. But you didn't have to verify much and if even if you did have to verify It's like they're gonna ask for a driver's license or social security and you write a letter saying yes I'm Randy or yes I'm a spouse which usually makes you like you can usually do some transactions as a spouse

Dani 1:06:41

The premiums were getting paid while Randy Rowe was in the hospital for five months After his motorcycle accident. So she knew about the policy. There's no She might not have signed it, but

Stephanie 1:06:52

she knew. My God.

Dani 1:06:54

In January of 89, Rowe purchased an insurance policy for each of her children. Each policy was worth 10, 000. On February 1st, 1991, she increased the policy to 15, 000 for each child. So she's, she's creeping up, like she's adding all of these. She's being very careful. Not suspicious. Don't be suspicious. Don't be suspicious. Mutual of Omaha representatives stated in court that in 1990, Rowe doubled the accidental death insurance on her two children to 24, 000 per child. I was unable to locate when that policy was originally purchased. But he also testified that Rowe purchased an accidental death policy on her family July 12, 1991, and January 24, 1992. Both those policies equaled 53, 000. January 24th, her children died February 10th. That's, that's like two weeks, 16 days I think. 16 days. Oh no, yes, 16 days before the fire. And that policy was effective immediately, and that policy was worth 12, So the total of all the policies were valued at 276, 000 on the family. This is

Stephanie 1:08:18

unbelievable.

Dani 1:08:19

She put in, and this is from Whitmore Poirier's book. She went ahead and the day, so she had bought that policy, did not get the paperwork yet, right? She put in a change of address the day her children died. Cuz she needed to get that policy.

Stephanie 1:08:42

She's like, we gotta get the signatures, get this notarized, whatever we gotta do, get a stamp on it. Yeah, she wanted to get

Dani 1:08:47

her policy. Get it

Stephanie 1:08:48

postmarked now.

Dani 1:08:50

Oops. Who does that the day your children and husband died?

Stephanie 1:08:55

I mean, especially, it sounds like she plans a lot, but it feels like, especially for then, when you couldn't do things over a website or app or email. You're cutting it very close because with the mail system to send something out, get a paperwork design, send something back, they need to receive it and log it. You're cutting it very close, ma'am. So it seems like for a criminal, I'm trying to think like a criminal, like she had tried to kind of like inch it up inconspicuously. I feel like she could have been way more strategic with that. If you already know that that should be a thing. Let's, let's get some strategery in it, and 16 days before, I think you should maybe wait like a year or two before if you were really, really, really, but desperation. I feel the desperation through all this.

Dani 1:09:50

She was super desperate because I think at this point in her, because she had not received the documents. It's stating that it was an, uh, an effective policy. She was like, well, I guess I'll just fill out the mail order or the, uh, address change. And if I get them, I get them. If I don't, I don't. I mean, that's only, you know.

Stephanie 1:10:09

Because

Dani 1:10:09

she has

Stephanie 1:10:09

other ones.

Dani 1:10:10

She has so many other ones.

Stephanie 1:10:11

This is just a bonus at this point. Yeah, and I really do think she's like, I have to have that, but I already have twice as many. Because the

Dani 1:10:19

lies, and I think she felt like Joan might have been on to her a little bit. Just a little. I

Stephanie 1:10:24

think she knew that Joan cared enough. Yeah. If Joan, especially with the memorial, I'm sure that was a huge red flag for Joan of what the fuck? Yeah.

Dani 1:10:39

It would've got there.

Stephanie 1:10:41

My goodness.

Dani 1:10:42

So. We're not sure exactly how many of those policies actually paid her out because only one insurance company admitted that they had not paid a 30, 000 claim and that it was under investigation. So I don't know if she even got money. I don't know. Well, especially if she was charged and stuff, like they are

Stephanie 1:11:05

looking for that. They are looking for any suspicious

Dani 1:11:08

They should,

Stephanie 1:11:09

because it's an insurance

Dani 1:11:10

policy,

Stephanie 1:11:10

right? They're in it for their own money. So they're looking for any reason to deny.

Dani 1:11:16

I don't know, it's just back in the day, I just feel like And there were small policies, relatively small, I mean, so not

Stephanie 1:11:24

a red flag. I can see that, and like you said, it was back in the day. No, but like back then I feel like You A lot of companies, whether they're insurance or otherwise, were there to make a profit, but also there to fulfill a goal, to say this is what we do. Whereas now, if anyone's dealt with car insurance, health insurance, home insurance, their ultimate goal, and you can usually feel it, is to not pay out. Pay as little as possible. Yes, they, they want to find any reason or loophole not to. So maybe back then they weren't investigating so much. They were like, oh weird this gal's children died. We're about to pay her off on some life insurance. I think I, I just saw that she was in jail and how would you see? Where's the insurance company? I think she did go, I don't think she got a lot, but I

Dani 1:12:19

think she did get some money.

Stephanie 1:12:20

I think some probably paid her out just, By proxy oh, it's, it's 10k, I don't give a shit. I do think

Dani 1:12:25

so. Denny Blackwell testified. Oh. John's son. This is the sexy boyfriend. Yeah, he testified that he had sex with Rowe in January of 1992. Okay. Blackwell, 33, is the son of Joe McHugh. He stated he had discouraged Rowe from developing a relationship with him because Rowe was planning on leaving the state of Idaho. Probably also she was frumpy. Sorry. We all have to get some every once in a while. And

Stephanie 1:12:58

it sounds like he probably had more prospects. And so, I'm sure he was like

Dani 1:13:02

And he said in court he had no romantic leanings towards her. Which is a polite way to say it, like She just made it way too easy, and

Stephanie 1:13:10

it was there, it was convenient, and it was

Dani 1:13:13

He stated, quote, she liked me. I didn't realize how intense it was. You know, casual sex is all right. Get it done.

Stephanie 1:13:24

No, I'm sure she was like, how can I like, and then she's like, can we get

Dani 1:13:27

married? Probably. That's just kind of seeing how. Can I have your

Stephanie 1:13:33

social? I just need to do a quick life insurance policy on you. I do this with all my friends. Me and my friends were great friends. We share socials. That's what we do. It's for you. That's what we do.

Dani 1:13:45

We share socials, so.

Stephanie 1:13:47

And a life insurance policy is something your friends should do for you. So, I'm happy to be the first to do that.

Dani 1:13:52

Let's go. I mean, just in case you die in a horrible fire or something.

Stephanie 1:13:56

Which would never happen. What are the

Dani 1:13:59

odds? Rowe had also discussed with Danny about divorcing Randy and moving to Seattle. He also testified that the two times that he had Sex with Ro. It was in a hotel room rented by Ro. Well, because

Stephanie 1:14:18

they couldn't very well do it at Jones, which I'm, you

Dani 1:14:21

know,

Stephanie 1:14:23

a little too awkward.

Dani 1:14:24

Maybe a little bit. Danny had spent the day before the fire with Rowe. This is so, this just reminded me of my parents so bad. They drove from Boise to Oregon to buy lottery tickets. Do you remember that? Did your parents do that? Yeah. They drove from Boise to Oregon to buy lottery tickets and returned back to McHugh's around 6 p. m. that night. An Ada County Sheriff's officer testified that he had found life insurance policies in Rowe's rented storage unit two days before the fire. The defense attorneys, let me just say this about her storage unit. They found her doll collection. They found the life insurance, like important stuff, brand new furniture. So this was her

Stephanie 1:15:13

secret hideout probably of like comfort and her operations central is what it sounds like. This is

Dani 1:15:21

where she kept the shit she didn't want to go down in the fire because the newspapers that all of her collectibles were wrapped in was dated February 7th.

Stephanie 1:15:31

I just gotta take these out of the house real quick, just for uh, uh, no, no reason. And she had told

Dani 1:15:36

Joan that Randy broke some of her collectibles.

Stephanie 1:15:40

She just No, they were in the storage unit. No, so she went there and was like I gotta keep that, keep that. I'm gonna take this This place is gonna be on fire, and you never know how fast that's gonna spread. So, especially since I'm lighting it at two different places. This is It's very risky. Let's get everything out. And I bet that was like probably a nice place for her to keep documents and be like, Oh, I just need this paperwork to cash in this. There was a lot

Dani 1:16:05

of work documents, YMCA stuff yeah, unbelievable. The defense attorneys tried to blame Randy for the fire. This several witnesses testified Randy was suicidal and harbored angry feelings against his stepchildren. But several mental health professionals that treated Randy said he had overcome his suicidal urges years before the fire. One friend of Randy's, Patricia Washburn, testified that Randy was not the same person after his motorcycle accident. She had visited the family in October of 1991. While there, Randy got angry at Joshua for changing the television channel. He threw a TV tray full of dishes at Joshua. When Rowe tried to get involved, Randy shoved her across the room. So he I don't agree with throwing and all of that stuff, but he also had brain damage. So you're not going to be the same person before

Stephanie 1:17:09

you're, he had brain damage and it sounds like he was the primary caregiver or, yeah, and if the kids are, listen, the kids are always clean. They're going to school. He's picking them up from school. We're inferring a lot of this. And typically, a family annihilator is a male, and this is almost like a family annihilation. I don't think it's for the same motives as a family annihilator, but usually when you hear of wife and kids, wife and kids, and usually wife and kids and husbands sell food. Self unalives. Mm hmm. Self exits from the planet. This really is so different.

Dani 1:17:54

And also, it was, well, I guess it was the 90s, but it's just, it's still a different time than it is now. Totally And I do, I do think that he had brain damage. I don't think he was, which can cause some he just got really pissed off at his kid. And I don't think it's okay. I don't think his friend is lying. That doesn't mean he's setting the house on fire. They're insinuating the defense. Is that Randy went downstairs, started a fire, and just went upstairs and went to sleep. Cause he was found sleeping on his side in a comfortable sleeping position. Cause they died from smoke inhalation. He was asleep. Who would start a fire and go upstairs and be like, I'm just gonna lay here. And to have any drug

Stephanie 1:18:43

interact that quickly to No. That's not going to happen.

Dani 1:18:49

After nearly a month of testimony The sequestered jury started to deliberate. On March 5th, only two and a half days, the jury came back guilty on all four charges, and the death penalty is on the table. Rowe is scheduled for sentencing at the end of August, but it gets pushed back to April. But also in April, Robin Rowe requests to visit her children's graves, which was denied by Judge Alan Schwartzman. Another issue in front of the court was if Rowe can keep her car, a 1985 Mazda. I don't think she got much money. That's why you threw out 85 Mazda. I thought you were just I knew it.

Stephanie 1:19:33

Was it a convertible though?

Dani 1:19:40

The judge ruled in June that Rowe can keep her car. She wanted to sell it for money to buy personal items while in jail. So I don't think, I kind of, just based, unless she had to pay her defense attorney, I'm not sure if he was I don't know. I don't feel like she maybe got very much of that money. Yeah. But she is a spender. I'm sorry, the sentencing was moved to October, not April. The sentencing was moved to October when Judge Schwartzman rejected a request from the defense for the sentence to be decided from a jury. The defense argued that the judge could be biased based on the information known about Rowe's alleged crimes before the fire. The judge said it's illegal to have a jury sentence Rowe, and also stated there's nothing in the course of the proceedings that can disqualify him. Thank you. He's like, basically, there's nothing that can disqualify me. In an interview, Rowe stated, as I've told other people who have asked me, at least in death, I'll know I'll be with my children, and still is maintaining her innocence. She also stated she did not want years of appeals if she is sentenced to death. She quote, said, quote, I am ready for it. I believe in a supreme being. I think hell's right here. During the sentencing hearing, prosecutors showed a pattern of deceit, theft, and arson for a fire. All the time fires.

Stephanie 1:21:04

All the time! So consistent fires. And these are only the ones that were, I wonder if she was ever just like, Oh, I'm going to set a park trash can on fire. Or, oh, walking home. I kind of feel like she did. I'm going to light this bush right next to this house on fire. And if something happens, whoopsie. And then it's like far from her. So they never really picked up on it. She's getting her fire fixed. A little shed, this and that. She probably walks through alleys. It's a nice shed to catch on fire.

Dani 1:21:35

Actually, I don't think she would be starting. I do think she will. She only is starting fires for personal gain. I really do believe that. She's very selfish. Return on investment. Okay. Several former employers and social workers described Rowe as a pathological liar in letters written to the court. Rowe did accept responsibility for the death of her husband and children during this hearing. For But denied starting the fire.

Stephanie 1:22:02

I'm responsible because what my thoughts or did you hire someone?

Dani 1:22:08

Which it doesn't make sense to me because this is her statement. This is a quote.

Stephanie 1:22:14

Okay.

Dani 1:22:16

If you had asked me a year ago, if I was innocent of this crime, I would have said, yes, I'm now willing to accept the responsibility for my actions. She testified she was desperate to escape a bad marriage. She said the fire was set to do structural damage to the family's home so Randy would leave. Rowe is still claiming the abuse in the home and she said she called the police several times. No records of the police being called. There was no records of the police ever being called. I don't know why she denied the, like she denied the fire Like maybe like the fire was set to kill her family.

Stephanie 1:23:00

So she said, I set the fire better than that. It shouldn't have hurt anyone. It should have just burned the building. Yes. Even though the smoke detector was Suspiciously man, like manually off, which would have caused people to escape and only the structure to be.

Dani 1:23:17

Yeah, really? You just wanted, you just, yeah. I don't want to kill my family. I just want to start a fire, but I'm also gonna shut off the fire. Rowe said she went out to see her children before the fire was set. The hardest part for her was knowing that little Tabby had woken up and went into the master bedroom after Ro had left the home. She hadn't little Tabby had to know what was going on. She probably went to Randy's room because of the fire.

Stephanie 1:23:47

Yeah.

Dani 1:23:49

And he might have already been maybe dead or something. I don't, I, I don't know. That's so sad. So she went home and kissed her kids and then started a fire. On December 16th, Rowe was sentenced to death. The judge called it the final betrayal of motherhood. He said she is the embodiment of a cold blooded, pitiless slayer. And of course, there will be an automatic appeal. Oh, this is another little tidbit. Randy's family couldn't gain release of the bodies without Rob and Rowe's signature. So while they were going Because he's

Stephanie 1:24:25

like next of kin or whatever. Yeah.

Dani 1:24:28

So now we're up to 1996. Yeah. 1996. In January, a post conviction relief claim that the public defenders offered Rowe ineffective counsel, Judge Schwartzman denied a new trial. Rowe attorney, Rolfe Keene, said he might try again to ask the judge to reconsider before he takes the Idaho, takes the case to Idaho Supreme Court. Remember Keene?

Stephanie 1:24:48

Yes.

Dani 1:24:49

Okay. Guess who's back? Back again. In 1998, the Idaho Supreme Court attorney Keene stated the authorities manipulated the judicial system to deny Rowe's constitutional right to an attorney and tricked her into making incriminating statements. He claimed Rowe was kept in jail On an unrelated theft charge on a bond of 100, 000 for five weeks after the murders. He also stated that authorities announced the charges on March 20th, the murder charges on March 20th that they've been filed. Between the time the charges were filed on March 20th and Rowe appeared in court, which was three days later, those phone calls made to Joe McHugh were recorded. Keene stated that McHugh was now a police agent at that point, and Rowe had not been provided an attorney and the court date had been intentionally delayed. I see his point, but fuck this bitch. So he's saying If she's a hired snitch, then she needs to be. And because they said, well, go ahead and tell this lie to her and see what she has to say. Yeah, but did I tell you what her

Stephanie 1:26:11

excuse was? I don't think I put it in here. Tell me about her excuse. What was Joan trying to say? I

Dani 1:26:18

thought I wrote, oh, okay, no, this is a good point. she had told Joan in those recorded calls that she had lied to her about leaving the house because she had been seeing a psychiatrist for eight months. And that she was having a really hard time, so she called her psychiatrist in the middle of the night and she left the house, but only to go across the street and sit in her psychiatrist's car. Talk shit out.

Stephanie 1:26:51

So that's why she was not there, supposedly, when Joan came down. Did they ever locate any psychiatrist? I'm guessing no, but I'm sure that, you know,

Dani 1:27:04

let's listen. So the Deputy Attorney General Keith Robbins maintains all of Rose Wrights were allowed through the, although he had no explanation why the court date was delayed, I kind of feel it's a little sketchy.

Stephanie 1:27:17

Mm-Hmm. I'm sure there is. Uh,

Dani 1:27:19

he also stated no psychiatrist was ever located. In March, the Idaho Supreme Court upheld Rowe's conviction. On June 3rd, Rowe's death warrant was issued and her execution date was set for June 18th. Of what year? We are in 88, 1988. Keane said that if Rowe continues to fight, it will go to the Supreme Court. Eight days before Rowe's execution date, a federal judge issued a stay. But in November, the U. S. Supreme Court refused to consider the appeal with no comment. In 2001, there's been, so up to 2001, there have been several bids for a new trial of post conviction relief that has been denied. But in 2001, Rowe's attorney claimed there is new evidence and they want a retrial. CT scans taken in 1993 show brain damage. Her attorney stated that more testing needs to be done, but that could be a reason that Rowe killed her family. Let me tell you about these CT scans. She went and got a CT scan. in 1993 after she hit her head. And I believe she claimed that Randy had pushed her. I'm unsure how she got it. But she did have a CT scan in 1993. And now they're saying, Oh, she has brain damage. Well, for having brain damage, she sure is a schemer. I don't, I can't keep up with her lies.

Stephanie 1:28:46

She has six different lives and six different scams going on at all times. There has to be some Like ability happening up

Dani 1:28:56

here, In 2008, the Idaho Supreme Court dismissed the appeal. But more appeals will follow. In 2023, the current appeal in front of a federal judge is denied for inadequate, inadequate. legal representation. Rowe attorney will appeal to the Ninth District Court Circuit Court of Appeals. The judge said Idaho's hands are tied due to a superseding change in the law that prevented it from be considering ineffective of counsel, but the court did not recognize the violation of our constitutional rights. Sort of like, yeah, maybe she did have an adequate, but we can't, because the previous stuff the previous laws, we can't do anything and our hands are tied. And as of current, Rowe is sitting on death row in Pocatello.

Stephanie 1:29:48

Okay. So she's rotten on death row. Rotten Robin Rowe. This woman, and listen, I support women's rights and I typically support women's wrongs, Not these ones. Not these ones? Not these ones are, like. This is a no pass? Like if you ghost someone or if you, like, leave a date early or you do whatever or like maybe your ex's tire accidentally goes flat miraculously and no one knows why, I'll support it. I'll support it. but this is a no pass. Exceptionally, exponentially, I can't support these wrongs because it feels like she killed her kids twice, three times.

Dani 1:30:39

And these poor kids, and Christina, 15 months old of SIDS, and like they did go back and look at that and was like, yeah, that coroner did not do a good job because we found this and this and this, like he didn't do a lot of other things right. But. And Sid's 15 months you're typically good to go. And Terry did state that she felt like her sister did kill her. And then just, just all the, the fires and killing her family, but also, ugh, just all of the lies and manipulat like,

Stephanie 1:31:16

I And to friends to try to light your friend's house that's on fire, and a neighbor below you. Was she hoping that her apartment would catch on fire, and

Dani 1:31:25

I really do think

Stephanie 1:31:26

that. Like, maybe she just Starting her

Dani 1:31:28

sister's apartment on fire with her kids! So, sister,

Stephanie 1:31:31

friend, her own. Oh,

Dani 1:31:33

and Terri, when she was staying with her in California, did find life insurance policies in her name.

Stephanie 1:31:40

Yeah. And who, I'm just, I feel like now, even most people don't know about life insurance policies, but even back then, especially for a woman, and as a woman, like You're not invited into financial discussions, no one's like, do you have a life insurance policy on your spouse? Do you have a plan if something happens to your sister and toddler? They're talking to a man about that instead of you, like no one's gonna approach you because you don't really have much power. So just the fact that she was like, life hack. Life insurance.

Dani 1:32:16

I'm just gonna start. Nobody knows

Stephanie 1:32:17

about this hack.

Dani 1:32:18

I'm just gonna start killing people that I'm supposed to love. She's a very selfish, psychotic woman and I was amazed. The trail of just, just, it just blew my mind. I was like, oh my god.

Stephanie 1:32:38

And these are only the ones that were like recorded around her, like.

Dani 1:32:42

This, I literally Was reading the book and oh, I couldn't believe it Like I literally was hitting my head. Are you fucking kidding me?

Stephanie 1:32:56

Well in how long it took to even catch on whereas now life insurance and insurance Any insurance agency is so sophisticated. Oh, they're going to be like, Oh, even if it was suspicious and it was only suspicious because of a coincidence, a true yes, you guys went to a financial advisor. They told you to get life insurance. And then. Someone t boned your husband that couldn't have been expected. They'll still investigate it, but here 16

Dani 1:33:24

days before your children die in a fire, you buy policies on them?

Stephanie 1:33:28

Gotta,

Dani 1:33:28

gotta bump up

Stephanie 1:33:29

those numbers. What a

Dani 1:33:29

greedy fucking bitch. What a greedy

Stephanie 1:33:32

bitch. I feel like she was getting like we said, she was desperate and she was getting excited about it. She was like, I love this much, but maybe if I just bump up those numbers a little bit. She was getting excited and, uh, kind of couldn't help herself. Yeah,

Dani 1:33:48

she's just, those poor children. I believe she killed

Stephanie 1:33:55

all four of her children. And there's the mystery kid in the prison where she was supposedly pregnant that we never found. Well, she, abortion

Dani 1:34:03

was legal. So she did have an abortion when she was 14 or 15 before she had little Christina. She did have an abortion. So maybe that's what ended up happening with that and Yeah, I just and poor Randy and Randy's family, it feels like he was giving it the old college try I do feel like that. I really do like he was and you know after his motorcycle accident He wasn't able to work, but he was taking care of those kids So,

Stephanie 1:34:35

men in general typically suck, but it feels like he was doing much more than the bare minimum. I feel like the bar is on the floor. So it's like, if the kids were clean.

Dani 1:34:45

Going to school.

Stephanie 1:34:46

Going to school. He's picking them up every day.

Dani 1:34:48

And his wife is gallivanting around with hot Danny.

Stephanie 1:34:54

And at the bingo parlor. Living it up. Late nights.

Dani 1:34:58

Jesus.

Stephanie 1:35:00

Robin Rowe, you're awful.

Dani 1:35:04

I really and I don't use this word lightly. I hate you. So it's been a very interesting, I was excited to tell you this story because it was almost unbelievable.

Stephanie 1:35:15

This has been unbelievable for me and Robin, uh, see you next Tuesday. Cheers.

Dani 1:35:21

Like, follow, and subscribe. That was great. Bye.