9. Meth, Motherhood, and Murder: The Donna Thorngren Story

In the latest episode of The Lethal Library, Stephanie and Dani discuss the twisted tale of Donna Kaye Thorngren. You thought your family was dysfunctional? Find out how a seemingly perfect family's sinister secrets unraveled, and how Donna's toxic love for her baby boy led to her husband's untimely demise. Spoiler: There's gunpowder residue,  a meth lab, and even a NASA scam. 

Contact The Lethal Library at TheLethalLibrary@gmail.com. Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok!

Transcript

Dani 0:32

Okay. All right. Let's get into this. Cheers. Cheers, sis. Another episode. Okay. All right. So, welcome back to The Lethal Library. I'm Stephanie. I'm Dani. And we're here to tell you some stories about true crime in our area. We like to focus on Idaho and the Pacific Northwest. We specifically like death row cases, but that's not the only cases that we cover. and Dani always comes. Every single week with a very intriguing story and I get to listen and we talk crap about it So let's talk shit about some thank you. I don't know my I think my work sensor is still on Well, this is a story of good gone bad in today's episode I'm going to tell you about Donna K Thorngren a devoted mother with a family strong in its faith You Falls apart. Children that stand behind their mother for years are torn apart when they find out the truth. Oh my gosh. An example of how trying to protect children can go too far. My research today comes from several articles from the Idaho Statesman. That girl. And an episode of Snapped. Love Snapped. It was hard for me. It's very, very produced, but It's very, very produced, but We love a good snap story because, yeah, people do snap and they make a great showing of how that happens. I will say though, let me just, this was, in my opinion, not snapped. Really? Planned. Mmm. Bum, bum, bum. Let's get into it. Let's go. On January 12, 2003, 42 year old Curtis Thorngren was found shot in his home in Meridian, Idaho. His daughter Amber found him on the bathroom floor with blood coming out of his ear. She told 911 that there was an accident. When the authorities arrived, they discovered Kurt had three gunshot wounds to the head. And one of those gunshots was in his mouth. So, you know, of course, the panic. of her walking in and finding blood. She was thought there was an accident. A terrible scene for sure. And not walking in to investigate calls 911 immediately. Who wouldn't? But once the authorities got there, they're like, Oh, this is not a fall. This is not a suicide because we know that that three gunshot wounds, despite what people say, is not a suicide. Two days after his death, the police still have no leads. Curtis was last seen about two hours before he was found, at home at two in the morning. He had come home after church to do his normal routine, which consisted of eating lunch and doing a crossword puzzle. That was like a standard for him. But even with that short time frame, the authorities knew that he had been shot within that two hour period. But even with that, that short time frame, the neighbors didn't hear any gunshots and there was no signs of force entry. That's different. Okay, you know cuz I I just wanted to focus on that for for just a second because If somebody said did you hear anything yesterday is a lot different than saying Did you hear anything between like noon and two right? Mm hmm, and they didn't and none of the neighbors heard anything Amber Curtis's daughter Told police the front door was ajar when she came home, which was unusual The police found electronics unplugged and shuffled around in Austin's room, which is their son. They thought this could have possibly been a botched robbery attempt. The Thorngren's home had been robbed several times in the last few months. Usually on a Sunday while the family was at church. Hmm. Hmm. This is very interesting. I feel like it was Somebody that knew where the family would be. Somebody that's been, that knows the patterns. Yeah. We all have our patterns. We do, you know. We do. I have, I have a very strict pattern for myself. So, just kidding stalkers. I'm everywhere all at once. You never know where I'm gonna be. You'll never know my next move. The Meridian Police Force was stretched thin at this time. Within a 48 hour time frame, they were dealing with a murder, suicide, and the murder of Kurt. Which, Meridian was a very small town at that time, in 2000 the population was only about 35, 000. Versus today, it's around a hundred and forty thousand. So we're talking about 25 years. What is that a triple? Are we doing math? Over triple? Triple. 35. Yes. It's triple. I'm going with triple the population. Good enough. Only one murder involving a fire hydrant. Harm had

Stephanie 6:24

happened in the last 25 years before this, these two incidences. It's pretty quiet around here, you guys,

Dani 6:33

So, with that being said, with the small, amount of big cases that they are used to dealing with, the police department had to temporarily move a patrol officer to the detective unit to review evidence full time. Let me tell you a little bit about Kurt. Kurt was married to Donna Thorngren and had three children. 21 year old twin daughters Amber and Annalisa and their son Austin, 17.

Stephanie 7:07

Okay.

Dani 7:08

Kurt was a technical engineer with Hewlett Packard and a game day employee at Boise State University. Kurt worked the BSU football games for more than 12 years and also watched over the BSU locker rooms at basketball games. You know he did this

Stephanie 7:27

because he loved it. And for you guys that don't know, Boise really treats our college football and has like a lot of southern states do, college football wears, and for a lot of people, college is more important. I mean, of course, everyone here still has their favorite NFL teams, but this is like one thing that's very unifying for all of Idaho. Well, not all of Idaho because we have the Vandals up north as well, but it's just BSU football is and has been a big thing for a very long time, even before some of their more popular wins that have happened over the last 25, 30 years.

Dani 8:12

We don't have a professional team here of anything. This is a

Stephanie 8:16

game we can go to.

Dani 8:17

Right, so we don't have any big teams here, uh, that are playing nationally. No, no NFL, no NBA, uh, no NHL. No. We do have a hockey team, but it's a light hockey team. Still

Stephanie 8:34

love, still love the Steelheads. Yeah. They're fun. Yeah. They're fun. But something national.

Dani 8:40

So, BSU's the deal, uh, here. Um, because they have done some great things. Mm hmm. And people hang on to that. Yeah. So, um, uh, I don't believe that it was, with him, uh, Having such a good job at, at HP. He was doing this because

Stephanie 8:58

he, he loved it. A lot of people would love to and still do. Right. There's people that that's their part time job is to do events at the stadium, which are mostly games. Which why wouldn't you? Get to see the game.

Dani 9:13

Kurt was well respected at work in the local deaf community. He learned sign language when he was young when he befriended a deaf friend at church who was having a hard time understanding the sermon.

Stephanie 9:27

Wow, that's amazing, to learn a whole new language for a friend.

Dani 9:32

Absolutely, I was like, he did what, like,

Stephanie 9:35

And I don't think ASL is an easy language to learn.

Dani 9:38

and he did it because of a friend told him, like, I can't understand what's going on. So, kudos to him. Yeah. Curtis also worked as an interpreter in his spare time. He was highly regarded in that community. It's a

Stephanie 9:58

very tight knit community, too.

Dani 10:01

Donna, his wife, was a daycare provider, and the family was very religious. They went to church every Sunday and every Wednesday night. It was it wasn't an option in their household Sure, not uncommon around here. Their son Austin was having trouble with the law though. He had been involved with drugs And recently charged with felony armed robbery. The family is terrified after Kurt's death. They are worried they are next. Police start looking at Austin's friends and drug dealers that he's associated with.

Stephanie 10:45

Totally a killer. Reasonable. Yeah, reasonable to look at those avenues for sure.

Dani 10:51

So we're gonna, we're gonna jet up clear up to 2005. 2005, okay. So two years later, the Meridian Police are still reaching out to the public for any help. They say they have looked into thousands of leads. The police are saying we just need hmm. I think they already knew who it was. And they were looking for someone that knew about this. Yeah, that knew about it. Spilled the, you know, spilled the beans. Someone willing

Stephanie 11:27

to say something that would be like, we're on the right

Dani 11:30

track. Right. In 2006, a grand jury indicted Donna Kaye Thorngren, 46, and she is charged with first degree murder.

Stephanie 11:44

They knew who they were looking at. And they were for a while, which is what happens a lot is they'll just watch and wait. and gather, especially nowadays. We saw all the crazy 70s, 80s, 10 day turnaround for a death row. We're ready to go. Death row. Let's go! Multiple, multiple people being charged. We can do them all. Let's get her done.

Dani 12:12

Curtis and Donna's 21 year old son, Austin Thorngren, so he was 21 at the time, Is charged with being an accessory to murder. Ooh, and both were arrested on June 23rd, 2006. So yeah, they, they, The police definitely, have been eyeballing these guys.

Stephanie 12:33

Mm hmm.

Dani 12:34

Watching and waiting. The suspected murder weapon, a 32 caliber handgun, was a rare type. Mm. And also, it matched a model of a gun that was taken from Donna's mother's home just six months before Kurt was murdered. Well, that's not looking good. The gun was so rare that local experts have been unable to find another one. That's how rare this gun was and I didn't, I don't know the whole deal. I'm not a gun Expert. Aficionado. Thank you for that big word. It went through my mind, but I wasn't gonna try to say it. I knew you knew it. Um, so But I think, oh, 32's a 32. And they're like, no.

Stephanie 13:27

Not this one.

Dani 13:28

Not this one. She's special. So, There's, there's that little tidbit.

Stephanie 13:35

That's a big tidbit. That's a really unfortunate misstep for any criminal. Don't use your papi's antique gun that there's three of in the world. I kind of feel like that's where that was going.

Dani 13:49

Whoopsie. Uh, the weapon has never been recovered. Kurt's autopsy revealed he had a toxic level of Of what? It's a big word for me, stuff. Toxicity. No, I'm going to say the drug. Revealed he had a toxic level of pseudo Ephedrine?

Stephanie 14:26

Yes. I was gonna do it. I was gonna do it. No, I'm so sorry. There's lots of vowels on that word. And it looks very weird. I believed in you 100%, but I was like, this can't be it, can it? It wasn't, I'm so sorry. Let's do it. Say it. It's pseudofed. Yeah, pseudofed. That's why it's called pseudofed.

Dani 14:47

Um, he had a toxic level of pseudofederal. In his system, that he had ingested at least four hours before he was killed. Why was he doing that for? Maybe he was sick, but a toxic level. A toxic level. And he went to church. He doesn't sound like the type that's like, I'm gonna pop 16 suits. He was absolutely, this is one of the things that, I read in my research. He was not okay with any altering Taking any meds? No, not any meds, but like any drugs or alcohol. So he surely wasn't He wasn't trying to get high. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. Thank you for putting those words in my mouth. He was not trying to be in an altered state. he was absolutely against it. So, and it's just, I, just, with him going to church that day. He's not the type to be like, I'm gonna pop these Sudafed and go to church and have a grand old time. And if he was that sick, or maybe if it was an accidental thing. He, if you're that sick that you're messing up on your cold medicine, you probably should be home in bed. And you'd probably be telling your family about it, like, or they would know

Stephanie 16:20

of

Dani 16:21

how,

Stephanie 16:21

like, oh my gosh, this is the sickest I've ever seen dad, or this is the sickest I've ever seen my husband. Nothing like that. Listen, we know what a man cold looks like. I'm not trying to downplay, but, and

Dani 16:34

it's okay. You guys need a little bit more help. It actually has proven that our women's pain level, uh, tolerance is significantly, and we're built that, we're just built that way. Ask any tattoo artist. Not judging, but we're badass. It's just, we're badass. It is how it is. had told Donna that Austin was going to have to move out when he turned 18 due to his drug use. And the fact that he was charged with felony armed robbery. Kurt was killed only two days before Austin's 18th birthday. Yeah. Not a good sign. And it doesn't look good. The police listened to over 600 phone calls placed by Donna. Damn. They were on her day one. They were waiting. In those calls, she continually was asking people to What they told the police about the case. Mmm. Don't be suspicious. Don't be suspicious. Don't be suspicious. Don't be suspicious. That's a lot of phone calls. I don't know how long it takes me to make 600 phone calls. 600? I, I do believe that they were just on her day one. They just didn't have the evidence. They were ready to get it though. Yeah. They're waiting for you. They're waiting and waiting and waiting. So, we're going to kind of hear some, some defense side, some detective, prosecution stuff here and kind of, they're playing out their case in the media. Hmm, as they do. Donna's defense attorney, Mark Manweiler, said that Donna and Kurt had been married for 22 years and they had no legal troubles. There was no restraining orders, no drug use, nothing that would indicate a troubled marriage. He also said that the Meridian Police were inexperienced in murder investigations, facts, kind of got on there with having a patrol officer, and that they had targeted Donna. And Donna knew she was being investigated for the last three years. She knew. Then don't say anything on the telephone. What is that movie with the a casino where they're like running around and like they had lip readers. Do you remember that with they're like running around for pay phones and then pretty soon the FBI just finally got lip readers to try to figure out what these guys were saying. I don't know if I remember it. Robert De Niro, um. Was his wife like a cheating girl? Yeah, Sharon Stone. And then like pretty soon the FBI had lip readers so we had to start covering our mouths. Anyway, I don't know. Like you're

Stephanie 19:36

on game day, anyway. Um, he's 4 yards off the 50. Uh, we're gonna pull this play.

Dani 19:43

Haha, yeah. Um, and we also, have drug dealers. Right? Because of Austin. So. Okay. He's like, really? Shouldn't we look at the Austin's just trying to get high. He's like The defense attorney is like, really? Shouldn't we be looking at the drug aspect of this? Very suspish. Manueller said the police should have been looking into the drug dealers that had threatened Austin and assaulted one of the Thorn Grin's daughters just before Kurt's death. Hmm, did that really happen? Oh, okay. Fair, fair. Definitely. The defense also states that someone broke into Thorngren's home weeks before the murder. True. And there is evidence that someone, possibly drug dealers, Manuel stated, they tried to run Kurt's car off of the road before the shooting. I, in my research, just to be fair, I never saw any, read any evidence of this, but the defense attorney is stating that there was evidence. Okay. There are also witnesses that report seeing Kurt up at night with his shotgun because he was worried about people threatening his children. And especially with the break ins, I can see that from, uh And the assault on his daughter, and Manweiler said Donna has an alibi. She was out with several friends and family members when Kurt was murdered. Several. Was she? I think we're gonna find out. The prosecution said sometime between 11. 50am and shortly after noon on January 12th, Donna came home and shot Kurt. Donna then went out to lunch with her daughter Amber and a movie to go establish an alibi. That's a great way to do it, we've seen that many times. Didn't work out for the Mendez brothers so well. I have started watching it, by the way. Donna also made sure everyone was out of the house. She has sent her daughter Amber to pick friend at Boise State University and arranged for Austin to spend the night at his grandmother's house.

Stephanie 21:58

How often is that happening if you're out doing robberies and doing drugs, senior drug dealers?

Dani 22:03

Um. Um. I believe it was the Snapped episode, um, his sister did say he was frequently staying over there. I think there was a lot of conflict. So they're like, go stay with Papa

Stephanie 22:16

Nana.

Dani 22:17

Yeah.

Stephanie 22:18

Okay. Got me there.

Dani 22:21

But it definitely was directed by Donna. Like, go, go stay over there. Well. During the initial court appearance, this is, this is the sad part. Really sad part. the family was divided. Kurt and Donna's twin daughters and several of Donna's relatives sat behind her and Austin in court and Kurt's parents sat with the victim coordinators behind the prosecution.

Stephanie 22:49

Oh, right. That's gonna create some. It's definitely a rift. Because that's a bit, that's a very symbolic thing to do. Yep. And if you're doing that, you're basically planting your flag.

Dani 23:02

Yeah, Donna's bond was set at 1, 000, 000 and Austin's was, 500, 000. In July, they had a bond reduction hearing. Donna's bond was reduced to 250, 000 and Austin's was reduced to 25, 000. Defense Attorney Man Weiler said Donna sold her house to cover legal costs. and the two were able to bond out of jail.

Stephanie 23:29

So they're free.

Dani 23:32

Um, this is, uh, uh, in July of 06. Uh, you know, I get on a little tangent, I didn't dig too deep, but, um, Donna's mother, Alice Vedder, uh, that same year was found guilty of defrauding NASA out of 1. 3 million dollars.

Stephanie 23:54

Who defrauds NASA? I

Dani 23:57

just have to tell you this shit because I think, I'm like, what? What happened? And oh, by the way, yeah, they're out on bond and oh, by the way,

Stephanie 24:07

Her mom. Mom, what the hell are you up to? You're defrauding NASA? That's like defrauding Bill Nye the Science Guy. Why would you do that?

Dani 24:17

They, they had a business. Uh, her, I want to say it was her sister in law, Alice Vedder and her sister in law. Who lived in another state, they send false invoices to NASA for 11 fucking years from their businesses. 11 fucking years.

Stephanie 24:35

This reminds me of a scam that I see that people are encouraging people to do on Tik Tok where they're like, just send your wedding invite to many rich people and their secretaries will probably just like send you money or send you something like. As a wedding present, but to do it to NASA,

Dani 24:56

I do think that they had some kind of, they had to have some kind of contract with NASA. Yeah, but 1. 3 million

Stephanie 25:03

dollars

Dani 25:03

is a

Stephanie 25:04

vendor for us, right?

Dani 25:06

1. 3 million dollars? In 2000?

Stephanie 25:13

That's like a kajillion now.

Dani 25:15

Can you fucking believe that? I was like, interesting fact. Anyway, you know me, I'm not

Stephanie 25:20

beholden. There's mama.

Dani 25:34

so we're gonna jump to 2007. Almost a year later. In late July of 2007, Donna's trial began. Opening statements from the prosecution said that Donna had 15 minutes to kill her husband. In an interrogation video, detectives asked about an open offer on Kurt's life. And Donna says, yes, like she knew what they were talking about, but then stopped short and said, look, if you're going to charge me, charge me. So they're like, you want to tell us about the offer? And she says, I don't know, charge me. Yeah, but she's like, yeah, I, uh huh, like she acknowledged if someone told me that I'd be like offer of what right? Like what's what because you know, we've heard the detective was like, you know And this is not verbatim, I didn't write it down, but I was like, you know, we've heard of some like offers, and she's like, yes, everybody knows that, right, anyway, and how many, and the, and, and then he was like, well, do you know who you said that to, or how many times, it was, and I'm just, this is not word for word, but basically, and then she was like, uh, I don't remember, I can't recall, that means she probably, probably I had many offers out on Kurt's, this is what I'm interpreting. She had told more than one person, that if you kill my husband, I will pay you money.

Stephanie 27:11

Well, and if her and her son are close and they know some people that are down to, cause I'm wondering at first, drugs, my first thought is. This is a very religious family. How would they even know anyone but then they have this son that's dipping his toes into the criminal waters

Dani 27:29

And I can't remember the lady's name, but they really started focusing and this comes from the snapped episode They were really focusing on this lady that kind of had this And we've all known this person. We've all, we all have known this house where you can go there as a young adult, a teenager, and they're like, oh, you can stay here and you can do drugs. It's the party house. It's the party house with an adult. Yeah,

Stephanie 27:59

and then you're, they'll call your parents. Yeah, they'll meet your parents and you're doing the most out of control Stuff at the house and they're, they're out, they're never there. They're out doing their own thing They're just provide, they want to be the cool parent. They want to be the bestie. Yeah, we all know

Dani 28:18

and so There was definitely, it wasn't He wasn't doing drugs with his church friends like he had gotten into a crowd and so the drug thing I I could see that as like a valid concern. Mm hmm during the trial Austin's friend Adam Ketterling testified for the prosecution Adam and Austin has stay the night at grandma's house and did math and watch some movies not

Stephanie 28:47

at Nana's Why would you do that at your Nana's? I don't give a fuck. I am watching movies. Okay. They've turned Nana's house into a trap house. This is. I know. I was, how do I say

Dani 29:06

this? I'm like, okay, I'm just going to say it. They did meth at grandma's. Okay. Uh, Ketterling stated he had walked in on a conversation between Austin and Donna out in the shed at, at Austin's grandmother's house.

Stephanie 29:22

Why are they talking in a shed? That's very

Dani 29:25

suspish. Oh, look at you. Cause, ready? It was called a shed, but I think it might have been a little bit more than that. Uh, it definitely had a couch in it. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like it was kind of a hangout place.

Stephanie 29:38

Well, and since the son has been there so much, he needs a place to do the meth that Nana can't. They're doing meth in the shed. Nana's going to come and say the waffles are ready, um, and then they're not hungry. And they're like, we'll take the waffles back to the

Dani 29:54

shed. Yeah. We'll eat them for sure. So Adam, Adam had woke up and found Austin missing and so he went to go look for him and that's when he found him out in the shed with him. Okay. Austin told Adam to give him a minute to finish talking to his mom. Adam waited on the porch until, until Donna left. And then when he went back into the shed to talk to Austin, Austin was visibly upset. And when Adam said, What's wrong? Austin said, I think she did it. Oop! When asked if he understood what Austin was saying, Adam said yes. There was a lot of build up about them wanting to get Kurt out of the picture and all of that. This is quoting. That I just kinda got the feeling that that's what he was talking about. He understood the vibes. Right? I get what you're saying bro. He knew. This conversation took place after Kurt died but before his body was found.

Stephanie 31:08

No good. Why are you so upset? Why are we having secret shed conversations? Why is it so serious? Why did you say she did it? Now it's real. It is real. No one knows it's real yet, but it's real. Okay.

Dani 31:27

I, with Adam Ketterling testimony, I was like, isn't that hearsay? I learned something.

Stephanie 31:38

Oh, I'm so, cause I get, I don't know what the lines are with it either, so I'm excited to learn this. So I'm like, isn't that,

Dani 31:43

isn't that fucking hearsay? Like how can he say that? There's a difference between hearsay and excited utterance.

Stephanie 31:53

Excited utterance. This is like

Dani 31:57

No, I was like, a Spontaneous utterance is a spontaneous reaction to an event that is so powerful That it prevents the person's normal reflective processes meaning it That like if somebody is grieving or just heard something shocking or watched something shocking that they don't have time to like process. The law recognizes that like they don't have time to process and make up stories

Stephanie 32:30

to contort it or put it differently. So they're saying You saw this in the moment a big moment It's not you heard someone talking to someone else and then it's more like gossip Which isn't always I don't even want to classify it as gossip But like the things that you hear are hearsay I feel like kind of get lumped into that more where this is like no I saw a reaction and I saw something as it was happening

Dani 33:00

There's even have like a time limit on it like anywhere from 10 to 30 minutes They'll allow you to testify about what somebody else said

Stephanie 33:10

not just chitty chatting about something that two weeks ago You saw your co workers or your family do

Dani 33:15

like within a significant event Anyway, it blew my mind cuz I'm like law and order hearsay. What the fuck?

Stephanie 33:24

This is a fun fact and it's actually fun. Like the case isn't fun. This is a fun You I was like you guys that are pros out there might know this and

Dani 33:34

probably a lot more than me like I did not deep dive Into this but I was like because it's one of the appeals later Okay, and also I will let me just let me just state that Adam Ketterling Admitted to using drugs he admitted to all that stuff at Nana's And Nana's, um, after the pancakes, no, I'm just, I don't know, but, um, and so that was a big thing that they brought up in the case, like, how could you believe this, you know, guy that has, you know, drug history and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, anyway.

Stephanie 34:18

I'm very suspicious of Donna at this point. I'm not saying that she's using, but I feel like her barrier is broken down to the using for. Her to be going here and be the first to confide in that she has much less of a problem with it now than She normally would like maybe five ten years ago. Like it's not a father. She's accepting her son That's my opinion. Is that a bad take?

Dani 34:52

No. Okay, you fucking nailed it Prosecutor Armstrong said that there's evidence that Donna and Kurt were estranged and Donna hoped Kurt would die You She had a history of spending money that led the couple to money problems, and they were even using a debt reduction service. So, you remember that point where her defense attorney said, They've had no problems, no restraints. They were sleeping, she was sleeping on the couch, with the dogs, and he was sleeping in bed. There was definitely some issues. So for her attorney, there's no, uh, because what, her husband didn't beat her and they didn't do drugs? That's what I was

Stephanie 35:35

thinking when you said that, because there's many couples of my friends or acquaintances that I can look at and say, yeah, the cops have never been called. But has some fucked up shit happened, or some weird, controlling, manipulative things that you can't even call the cops for? Right. Like, over years, and you know these things?

Dani 35:58

Mm hmm.

Stephanie 35:59

Just because there's no criminal record. This is the type of family, and I'm making assumptions and judgments here, but this is the type of family that even if something did happen, like a whoopsie, pushed your mom down or whoopsie, I threw a toaster at dad's head. They're not calling themselves. They're not calling themselves. No, because

Dani 36:19

they were very highly regarded. They're not. In their church, everybody thought that they were a perfect family. And there's, there's a willingness to uphold that. There's gotta, you gotta keep it tight, right? Okay. At one point, Donna had racked up over 50, 000 worth of debt. Okay, what year

Stephanie 36:44

is this?

Dani 36:44

Uh, early 2000s.

Stephanie 36:47

That's, again, you might as well make it a million. Right. I'm exaggerating, but that's a lot of debt at that time.

Dani 36:55

so much so that they actually, uh, when Kurt found out what was happening, he, they got separate checking accounts, and was like, I'm going to be responsible, I kind of feel, I don't, I don't know the exact situation, but it was like, I'm going to be responsible for the bills, And you can't touch this. You cannot touch my, the money that we need is responsible to pay our mortgage and our light bill.

Stephanie 37:24

And especially at this time for a traditional family that probably had same accounts. Oh, it's a big deal. That's especially, you don't see or

Dani 37:35

hear about that a lot. Especially considering, the faith that they held. That was not going to happen. Right. Right. This is so Actually, it was pretty progressive. I feel on Kurt's part to do that. Like here you go. It was

Stephanie 37:52

outside of the beaten path That's for sure. Instead of just

Dani 37:55

being like you.

Stephanie 37:56

Because most men in in these very ultra religious That is a wifely duty, you know, and Many, not all, think she handles the books. And for him to feel like, oh, maybe even if she did, I have to stop it. Yeah. There's a lot of men that have no idea how to pay a bill.

Dani 38:19

And Kerr was super smart. Super, super smart. Um, and so, he was like, no I'm not, I'm not gonna let this happen to my family. I'm, This is, this is how it's gonna go. Which is fair. If your, if your partner. 50, 000 later. If your partner is putting you in financial ruin. You're like, no.

Stephanie 38:43

Rick and I have separate finances. And we still ask each other about big purchases.

Dani 38:50

Absolutely.

Stephanie 38:51

Cause I want his advice

Dani 38:53

and he wants my advice. Cause you're financially still responsible to each, even if you're not married yet. You have a partner, you are still financially responsible to your partner and your decisions affect

Stephanie 39:06

that person. Exactly. Because they're depending, we don't talk about it. Yeah. It doesn't mean that I have a veto or he has a veto on me, but that's, that's where the respect level comes in,

Dani 39:15

because she did not fucking respect him. Thousand, $50,000 just blend and most of it I, uh, read saw was she spent a lot on the children. I don't know how you could spend that much on, on your kids. I

Stephanie 39:31

think she was refocusing, I think that her picture of the family that she thought she would have had crumbled. And so now she wants to be the special person and she wants to, I mean, having an addict child, the addict child is going to manipulate you. And I'm sure that she probably fell into that and then also wanted to help out her other kids. You are just,

Dani 39:59

I feel like you could have wrote this story. Uh, Donna was very protective of Austin and She hid a lot of things from Kurt. And once he found out, Austin was already out of control and, uh, fully addicted to meth.

Stephanie 40:18

Too far gone.

Dani 40:18

She protected her baby boy to the point where, by the time Dad found out, it was, it was

Stephanie 40:29

We're talking about drug dealers and break ins and It's

Dani 40:32

out of control. Yeah. Kurt wanted Austin out of the house, not just because of what he was doing away from the home, but also what he was doing in the home. Donna even let him cook meth in the family home. Get.

Stephanie 40:51

You're shitting my dick. Ha ha ha ha ha! Not in the good religious family home. She's like, sweetheart, I'll get you a little Bunsen burner. Yeah. Let's just get that credit card. What, what type of? You're making a science lab, sweetie. I like this. Science. Men in STEM.

Dani 41:14

Can you believe it? She's got I am, I feel so bad for Kurt, just to fall in like, He has to look at his family. He was very, a very big family man. And to all of a sudden look at his family and be like, What the hell is going? He probably didn't even say that. But I'm going in the gosh, golly. What the hell is going on in this damn house? That's probably how we felt. What's the fudge? I feel so bad. Because it was, it was, it, just in my research, it felt like Austin and Donna's relationship was more important than her husband's relationship.

Stephanie 41:58

Yeah, this sounds like Which is fucking weird! The original, one of the original toxic boy moms is what this is sounding like. We see a lot of those themes on social media these days with very toxic boy moms and this feels right parallel to it.

Dani 42:15

My baby boy, I need to protect him and My baby. My baby boy. And it just,

Stephanie 42:21

yeah, why aren't the, why aren't the sisters allowed to cook meth? Do they get to, do they have

Dani 42:27

their own cocaine business? Talk

Stephanie 42:29

about favoritism. Support their entrepreneurship. Fuck. I just was like, are you, when I saw, I was like, what? They, I cannot believe, the meth lab in the house, I would have never thought of, Dani. This is wild.

Dani 42:44

Yeah. It's wild. Dad's like, no. Gotta draw the line at the med lab. Eighteen, you're moving out. And he did die two days before he turned 18. So he knew the timeline was

Stephanie 42:55

happening is

Dani 42:57

Yeah.

Stephanie 42:58

the point.

Dani 42:59

Mmm. A key piece of evidence in the trial were some pants of Donna's. At the time when Kurt was murdered, Donna was painting their bathroom. She did a little spruce up. Hmm, DIY. She told police that she had done some painting early that Sunday morning and had taken off her pants in the bathroom and left them there. Um, so I'm gonna tell you that I am not getting up and starting to paint my bathroom on a Sunday when I know that I have to go somewhere. She was going to church. I'm just gonna get up. And then had

Stephanie 43:43

a lunch date, right?

Dani 43:44

Yeah, I'm gonna get up at 7 a. m. and go knock out an hour of painting and then I gotta go get ready. One hour

Stephanie 43:49

of painting. Why bother? One hour of painting. Once you Unwrap that crusty paintbrush or roller that probably needs a good rinsing still, even if you did wrap it, pour it, fix any masking. One hour is not a long time. And that's not the

Dani 44:08

exact time, but who, if they, if, if Kurt was back from church by noon, they were at

Stephanie 44:16

church in the morning. Maybe she accidentally stumbled on a meth lab and felt a sudden rush of productivity. This is all allegedly from me. I'm just making this up. But I just If I'm

Dani 44:30

painting, I want to immediately take off my clothes and

Stephanie 44:35

Done for the day, me.

Dani 44:36

Take a shower and have a cocktail. I'm not going nowhere.

Stephanie 44:41

Yeah, I don't crusty in your

Dani 44:43

hair.

Stephanie 44:45

No,

Dani 44:47

When the police took a look at her pants, they found gunpowder residue Running down the pants. They stated if the pants had been just tossed on the floor. The pattern would have been significantly different Right? Okay. She, she should have laid him out flat. Police concluded that she was wearing those pants when she shot Kurt.

Stephanie 45:14

Whoopsie. And this was at a time where people didn't really know about gunshot residue either. Like, if I don't have, cause they knew DNA, DNA was the hot new thing.

Dani 45:24

Right. Okay.

Stephanie 45:25

They're like, they're like, I'm not going to be bleeding. I don't need any of his blood on me, my blood on him. Like no bloodsies, maybe no hair. Okay. And they're like, just give 'em a good pow, pow, toss the pants that you're painting and

Dani 45:41

yeah. Mm. Whoops. They never did test her hands or anything for the gunpowder residue. which is mistake. It's a mistake, but the pants are dead. Giveaway Yeah. Pants. You didn't go shooting today. Dead giveaway. You went, you went painting. The jury deliberated for over three days.

Stephanie 46:06

Why? What in the literal fuck? Mama had a meth lab in the house. I like my three day, I like my three hour jury. You know, I mean, I'm glad that they're taking the time. Sure. Sure. Sure. You know, and I, I can understand someone. There's always going to be someone in a 11, 12 person, whatever it is. That's like, we have to consider this. And that is an important voice, but sometimes they want to consider.

Dani 46:33

But also I will say when I first started researching this, I was like, This is, this is pretty fucking flimsy, right? They did have to wait a while,

Stephanie 46:44

but

Dani 46:44

when you get into the beats. Yeah, I was like, this is pretty flimsy. I'm like, uhhhh. But then, um. How long could it be? Right, cause that's like 15 minutes. She had this shit planned.

Stephanie 46:57

I mean, I'm just saying.

Dani 46:59

Mom's gun was missing six months before. Oop!

Stephanie 47:03

A little premeditation. Don't use the antique gun. Wait.

Dani 47:09

when the jury came back, it was with a, a guilty verdict for first degree murder. Oh. Oh. Donna was sentenced to life in prison with at least 20 years fixed. We still have Austin out there with some charges. Austin, what are you up to? Got a meth lab in jail or what? This was I feel that these were bullshit charges. So, you know, it was accessory to murder. Yeah. And then, it was just,

Stephanie 47:42

from what you've told me to be able to get him as well, which with him being a drug user and more prone to making mistakes or leaving evidence or maybe making calls from the house, whatever, I feel like I could see how it'd be very flimsy. This kid

Dani 48:01

didn't know shit what was happening. You know what happened? His mom thought that they had this fucking relationship. That she could go and say, by the way, I killed your dad. And then he lied to the police. That was their whole, that was his charges. That he lied to the police about his mom. He has an alibi. He was smoking meth at Nonnie's. So, it was flimsy, it was stupid, to drag this kid through this, who was already having so many issues. I mean, maybe it was good with the drug, like, he was definitely getting dried out, I would think. Yeah, I mean, sure, that's a positive. So, he had lots of shit going on. It was bullshit charges. I'm going to say it. Just, it was stupid. It was, it was stupid. In November, the charges against Austin were dropped. The charges of accessory, accessory, big words kids, to murder was because the police said Austin knew that his mother Killed his father, but lied

Stephanie 49:04

to the police about it. I can see that That's somewhat legit. Like you can't if someone tells you I killed someone

Dani 49:11

But I feel like to just pull him in as accessory to a murder.

Stephanie 49:15

No, I don't think it should be accessory to murder I think it should be like Withholding or I don't know what the charge would be. I don't know what the charge would be either but accessory to murder is a big Obstruction, maybe

Dani 49:25

obstruction

Stephanie 49:25

of

Dani 49:25

justice.

Stephanie 49:26

I know that's a real one. Yeah obstruction or like Like hindering an investigation or lying to the, I mean, the lying thing has to be something somewhere. Yeah. Criminal experts, tell us what that could be. If, if you're just out doing meth at Nana's, having fun as you normally do, and your mom comes over and says, I did murder dad, and you're like, I was just trying to get high at Nana's. But anyway, I'm gonna go back to doing that and then you the police ask you about it and you lie What what type of charges is that help us help us? We're not legal experts paralegals legal experts attorneys Please chime in

Dani 50:08

so Austin Ended up just pleading guilty to two probation violations for using alcohol and cocaine in exchange for the charges being dropped. I'll take that. Sure, a little coke, who doesn't? Got it. so, currently Donna is 65 and in the South Idaho Correctional Institution and she will be eligible for parole in 2027. Okay, let me tell you this. Tell me. I did not. Really make notes on this. This tour, this family, a part, her,

Stephanie 50:50

I've been thinking about,

Dani 50:51

daughters believed in her so much and just stood behind her and at some point after mom was convicted they were like trying to do their own, they were convinced it was some of Austin's And I would too.

Stephanie 51:12

Their first view of like the wild world of crime. They're like, I've seen movies, the drug lords and the mafia bosses and the cartels, they're behind this.

Dani 51:24

and they went to the police to discuss it. And then the police. Basically, like, opened up all the evidence to him. They have to learn somehow. Now they know. Now they know that their mom murdered their father. Um, but to, to have that realization that your mother let you down this way, Fucking rabbit hole searching for your brother's drug dealer acquaintances or friends that may have killed when she did it. The heartache. I feel so bad for those kids. All of them. Even Austin. Austin had issues. Because he wasn't

Stephanie 52:09

smart enough to plan this or competent enough in the moment. No, he had no involvement

Dani 52:14

whatsoever. Um, he just got wrapped up because mama thought that they were, you know, they were so close that she needed to go tell her son what happened.

Stephanie 52:26

First, no. Very toxic boy mom behavior. Don't do that.

Dani 52:31

So, it was really sad to watch on that, uh, episode of Snapped, the daughter, I believe it was Annalisa, that, uh, was just, my mom lied to us for so many years and made us believe. All this stuff that wasn't even true.

Stephanie 52:51

So. No, I agree. And I, I think you told me in the first court date that people took their sides. Yes. So that stuck out as a huge red flag or just a moment to notice for me because if the first court date, people in the family are already like, and not a lot of them probably don't know the evidence. No, so for them to know that the vibes are bad. Mm

Dani 53:22

hmm

Stephanie 53:24

and think that

Dani 53:27

it was cursed parents so then it caused a split between Huge their grandchildren and them and they just lost their son and they just lost their father and they are Losing their mother and brother. They don't know what's going on. So to have that rift When she was just a manipulative, uh, lying bitch. I was trying to find a better word for that, but I couldn't. She was, you know. I feel like she used her son to almost as a, I don't want to say entertainment, but like, that was her

Stephanie 54:07

treasured him. Yeah. Like it was

Dani 54:09

like, that was cause she went to all their games and are all of his games. She doesn't want

Stephanie 54:15

to fail with him. Right. So if he turns 18 and he's not there, that's a kind of a failure. I could, it isn't really, I can see how someone would view it that way. But listen, there's other options. Divorce babes. Divorce.

Dani 54:32

Or how about not allowing your children to cook meth in the house?

Stephanie 54:35

Maybe don't allow them to be Jesse from Breaking Bad, like science mom. Science.

Dani 54:42

And they had an actual science teacher in that, by the way, so. Fuck outta here. Mr. White. So. Anyways. She is a bad fuckin person, and

Stephanie 54:55

I feel bad for the twins.

Dani 54:57

I do too. And I feel bad

Stephanie 54:59

for Austin, because I, I, I. He was out just gallivanting, lollygagging. I, kids get in trouble. And then to have his sisters be like, what one of your friends came over and murdered And

Dani 55:11

absolutely. Absolutely. That happened.

Stephanie 55:14

Oh, you know it did.

Dani 55:15

Absolutely. No, they talk about it. Like that happened and Like hey, bro, tell us who could have who did this? Tell me about this friend. Tell me about that You know about the drugs and all the cartels and the

Stephanie 55:28

mafias and so then you have that split

Dani 55:31

between between siblings, so Donna you are a bad person and um, I feel a lot of sympathy You For Kurt's parents and also your children. You're a piece of shit. That's all I got

Stephanie 55:50

boy moms Not all boy moms are like this but toxic boy moms if you're delving into a relationship that's much closer with your son or bordering on a Relationship like that kind of relationship with your son Stop. No good. Stop. Halt. Pause. Let's rethink. Let's reframe. It isn't your fault that you're doing this. Be

Dani 56:23

a

Stephanie 56:23

partner

Dani 56:24

with your child's parent. Yeah, whether they're your husband or not and get some shit figured out parent with co parent That was the word I was looking for God, you know, so You know, I like to think of myself. It's barely struggle. It's it's funny. I Don't think I'm stupid by any means but damn these big words get me

Stephanie 56:49

Wonderful job as you always have I'm tight.

Dani 56:51

This was a great conversation

Stephanie 56:52

Great story. You put it together really well and how you laid it out. So we are glad that you guys joined us again. Another great story. Thank you, Danny. Um, you can follow us on Facebook, Instagram. We did get the tick tock going. Um, so there, and. This is late. We release later. So we've had a TikTok for a while, but come follow us on TikTok. Thank you so much for listening. And uh, email us

Dani 57:18

with any questions or suggestions at thelethalibraryatgmail. com. We would super appreciate it. And like, follow, subscribe, review,

Stephanie 57:29

comment. All those things. Let's chitty chat about it.

Dani 57:32

All righty guys, we'll see you later. Tan four, rubber ducky. Fuck yeah!

57:38

You