The Lethal Library

18. Fiancée Frenzy: The Betrayal and Crimes of Dale Shackelford

• The Lethal Library • Episode 18

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In this episode of The Lethal Library, hosts Stephanie and Dani dive into the convoluted case of Dale Shackelford. Beginning with a devastating fire that claimed the lives of Donna Fontaine and Fred Palahniuk, they explore how this tragic event unveiled a complex web of criminal activity. Follow along as they recount Shackelford's manipulative tactics, a press conference confession, and a trial filled with shocking testimonies and failed bomb plots. From tangled relationships and relentless legal battles to the final sentencing, this episode covers the rise and fall of a man whose criminal ambitions were far from successful. Enjoy the drama, the ridiculousness, and the ultimate downfall of a man who seriously overestimated his own craftiness.

Contact The Lethal Library at TheLethalLibrary@gmail.com. Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok!

Stephanie:

All right. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of The Lethal Library. I'm Stephanie. I'm Dani. And we just realized that we were starting this podcast without recording. So this is take two for us. Join us here as Dani is going to tell us another story about a dumb criminal.

Dani:

I didn't write an intro for this one. I didn't, I don't even know what to say. I will say sources used for this episode, are the Mountain Echo, Cheshire News Press, the Times News, and of course the bitch Idaho Statesman. Love you. This is a story of Dale Shackelford. Good old Dale. On May 29th, 1999, just outside of Kendrick, Idaho, a fire is noticed by residents in the rural area of northern Idaho. So it's, it's up between Moscow and Lewiston on that side, the west side of the state, but just a little east because Moscow and Lewiston are like right on the border. So it's in a little bit. Um. In the panhandle. By the time the firefighters arrived, the two story building was a complete loss. The couple living in the home, Donna Fontaine and Fred Palunick, were staying there while they were in the process of building a new home close by. The building was owned by Shanna Avery, Donna's daughter, and Gary Fontaine, Donna's brother. And let me just, I wanted to say this about the house. it was Underneath the house was like, and we've seen these houses where they have like a living quarters above. Kind of like my, like my cabin, like the garage is down below and living quarters were above. and it was just, I, I think it was fairly rustic out there. I mean, it was, it was out there and a lot of, a lot of country out there. You're gonna hear me refer to neighbors and I In this story and I'm like, I don't think the neighbors could like see the house or anything. Only when it was aflame,

Stephanie:

probably. Right. Yeah.

Dani:

Once the fire was out, the bodies of Donna, 42, and Fred, 59, were found. The couple was, both were identified by dental records. Detectives are trying to figure out how the fire started and why the victims were shot.

Stephanie:

Oh, another fire cover up.

Dani:

This one though, I'm going to tell you. It was burnt to the ground. Um. Total loss. Because they had soaked, and you've seen this before in some of these buildings to protect them from weather, instead of staining them, they actually soak the wood in oil. Yes. You know what I'm talking about. A

Stephanie:

lot of places like near the coast do that, I think. Yeah. Okay.

Dani:

And so, it was, whoosh, there was nothing. And I don't think it. The accelerants there.

Stephanie:

Right, and I don't think

Dani:

it took much effort. To start said fire. That's so because of that.

Stephanie:

It probably means it was moving really fast, too.

Dani:

Fred worked as a Railroad brakeman. Do that? A brakeman? Yeah. Brakeman. Brakeman. He puts on the

Stephanie:

brakes. What does he do?

Dani:

He does do that. Oh, okay. But he's also, this is and he did this for many, many years. It's, they do, in the old days, they would like, it was the most dangerous job actually on the railroad to be a brakeman. And they also put the cars together, make sure that they all get together, so. I would not want

Stephanie:

to do that.

Dani:

No, trains aren't fucking scary. No, they are not something we mess around with. But Fred also enjoyed working outdoors, especially landscaping, raising wild turkeys, and managing the forested acres around his home. Which we all, like, we have a cat. you don't just manage your home. You have to go around it. All the

Stephanie:

grounds, yeah.

Dani:

Fred has two daughters, Sean Grant and Heidi Wyndon, and two sons. Charles and Matthew. Donna was from Middlebrook, Missouri. She worked as an attorney. She really, she was an attorney. She didn't work as an attorney. She was an attorney. Her daughter, this, this always makes me sad and I just, when I'm going through these stories. Her daughter, Shanna, was on a student trip in Africa. And her son, James, was on a Navy ship at sea when she died.

Stephanie:

That's awful. I just,

Dani:

they don't even know.

Stephanie:

No. Aww. are able to be reached, you're a thousand miles away. Right.

Dani:

And so then you have to, can you imagine hearing that your mother passed away and you're on another continent?

Stephanie:

No.

Dani:

it's horrible if your mother passes away or any close family member, but then to be so far away when you just want probably hugs. And

Stephanie:

to

Dani:

be near

Stephanie:

your family. Yep. Be home.

Dani:

Donna died as a result of a gunshot wound to the back of her neck. She was also shot in the chest with a shotgun.

Stephanie:

Good God.

Dani:

Fred died from a gunshot wound that entered the lower left side of his torso and traveled through his lung. Both died before the fire was set.

Stephanie:

I feel like there's a bit of relief in that because I know that most people would hate to burn to death. Oh, that would be horrible.

Dani:

But somebody's hiding something. And

Stephanie:

amazing with how bad this fire was, they were still able to ascertain the locations of the gunshot wounds and everything. Because Sometimes. It doesn't hide everything. Nope. You can't, you can't get it to burn long enough or hot enough to completely incinerate a body for the most part.

Dani:

Detectives are trying to figure out who would have wanted to hurt the couple. They interviewed the couple's friends and family, including Donna's ex husband, Dale Shackleford in Missouri. So I'm going to tell you something.

Stephanie:

Yeah.

Dani:

I do not know how this works. But we, there was a large population traveling from Missouri to Idaho. Like all these people lived in Missouri and had property in Kendrick. I looked it up. It's nineteen hundred fucking miles. Twenty nine hours straight drive through.

Stephanie:

Okay.

Dani:

I complain that my cabin is three hours away. Uh, I can't imagine. Uh, I got a cab and it's 29 hours away.

Stephanie:

No. No. Unless you have your own plane. Right.

Dani:

No. These guys are just,

Stephanie:

no.

Dani:

Driving back and forth. Eh.

Stephanie:

Pass.

Dani:

Uh, they don't have cabins in Missouri or what the fu I don't know. I do not. Well,

Stephanie:

in that part of Idaho, I mean, it's okay. Well, it's

Dani:

pretty it's pretty yeah, it's nice up there and it's probably was you could probably get You know a big chunk of land for less expensive than maybe but it's beautiful up there. It's like we're talking where the Pratt brothers were running and right, right get some snow up there And even as

Stephanie:

Idahoans though, like we don't typically go up to Lewiston area. We went for like Big birthdays and funerals. Yeah, that's it. It's not like a frequenting place for Because I think it's an eight hour drive. It's very long and I don't like big state. We

Dani:

are

Stephanie:

a big state. Bigger than most people imagine. Yeah.

Dani:

So, you know, this happened in May. Their investigators are trying to figure out what the heck's going on. What's going on? But on February 2nd, 2000, so almost a whole year later, Dale Shackelford and Bernadette Lassater arranged a press conference at a Kendrick restaurant. Who's Bernadette? Mm hmm.

Stephanie:

This. It's a kind of a bitchy name anyway. Sorry, Bernadette's. It doesn't have to be a mean bitchy.

Dani:

Bernie's cute. I think that's what she went by.

Stephanie:

Okay, Bernie. But in the story.

Dani:

I'm just gonna call her Lysater.

Stephanie:

Lysater.

Dani:

In the press conference, Lysater said, Hey, you wanna know what happened to Donna? Let me tell you. She said she gave a Missouri man drugs and had sex with him in return for his promise to dispose. Quote. Bows of Donna. She did not identify who the man was. Seder was romantically interested in Shackleford and is in the process of divorcing her current husband, Richard. She claimed Donna had threatened to represent Richard in their divorce. And child custody trial because Donna was angry over Seder's romantic interest in Shackleford.

Stephanie:

Okay, this is wild. A wild tale.

Dani:

Hang the fuck on. I'm not kidding. It's earlier in the day an anonymous tape was sent to the Lewiston Morning Tribune, In it, Lysater stated, quote, Donna promised that Richard would get the kids, and I would never be able to get them because of my possible connection with Dale. And you're, I want you to remember that statement. She also said Donna had threatened her children. Lysater said she traded a bag of cocaine and a night of sex with a man with the understanding he would get Donna, quote, out of my life. She said she spent the night with a man either May 27th or May 28th. And remember Donna and Fred were murdered on the 29th.

Stephanie:

So she's saying that she herself did this?

Dani:

Yeah. She's saying I, Had done a guilt.

Stephanie:

For a bag of coke and some sex. Done. Why are we having a press conference about this? What? You're on too much cocaine right now, ma'am. Bernadette, put the cocaine down.

Dani:

But you remember who's with her.

Stephanie:

Rick, or the Richard, right? Or, no, Dale. Yeah. Yeah. And they, they're like, this is a great idea. Let's go on TV and say that we hired someone to kill her.

Dani:

They obviously had not contacted any attorneys.

Stephanie:

I don't know if you, do you really even need an attorney to tell you not to do that? I feel like we're, we're way past common sense at this point. I did kill someone for a bag of coke and some sex. No one's asking about it yet. I'm kind of bored. So, you know what? Call the press in. Let's, let's have a meeting about it. Call the press in, please.

Dani:

Bring the cameras. Okay. I told you. I've been like, I can't wait to tell you this story all week, so. Lasater said she later learned of Donna's death from a friend that told her something happened in Idaho. When a reporter asked if she knew Donna would be killed as the result of the deal, she responded, Almost definitely, that's why I disappeared, unquote. And now I'm back

Stephanie:

because I just want to tell my story. Let me tell you my story. Man, and was TMZ around this time? We're talking 2000. Yeah. Get TMZ on the phone. Yeah. What is happening?

Dani:

I know. It's just, just stay with me. Just stay with me. I'm here. She left her kids, so Lysater left her kids with a co worker and didn't tell a co worker or Shackelford where she was going. Lysater's children, a 12 year old daughter and a five year old son. are in the custody of the Missouri Department of Family Services. Lasader was reported missing on January 18th of 2000. So she's been gone A month or so? A couple weeks?

Stephanie:

Yeah.

Dani:

Authorities in Missouri have been looking for her. She was tracked, but Ha! She was tracked down by Shackelford after he found an application in an office wastebasket for a Utah trucking company that Lasader was trying to work at under an assumed name. Stay with me here. Lasader was an employee at Shackleford Trucking Enterprises, which was owned by Dale Shackleford.

Stephanie:

This just keeps There's lots of people. This

Dani:

is very tangled. Lots of people. So, Shackleford tracked her down in Salt Lake City and convinced Lasader to come to Idaho so she could be protected from anyone who may want to harm her. Okay. Quote, she said, It has been a nightmare, and this has just made this nightmare a reality.

Stephanie:

What, your own actions?

Dani:

Mm hmm.

Stephanie:

Sure. Okay.

Dani:

On February 15th, six people are indicted for the murder of Donna and Fred. Dale Shackelford is among them. Five people are held in Idaho and one in Missouri. 1900 miles away.

Stephanie:

International.

Dani:

Shackelford is charged with two counts of first degree murder and one count each of conspiracy to commit first degree murder and one count of first degree arson and preparing false evidence. Yikes. I'm gonna introduce you to some more characters. Sonya Abbott's and her mother Mary Abbott's are both charged with conspiracy to commit first degree murder, conspiracy to commit first degree arson, and principle to preparing false evidence. Sonja is Shackelford's fiance.

Stephanie:

It gets deeper.

Dani:

Sonja's father, John Abbotts, is also charged with perjury.

Stephanie:

Family affair.

Dani:

Lysater and another woman from Missouri, Martha Miller, are charged with preparing false evidence. The death penalty is on the line for Shackleford. What a wild web of fuckery. Just, yeah, you're gonna be angry here. Okay. Prosecutors have a motive for the murders. Donna was the only witness against Shackelford on a rape charge she lodged in Missouri for an incident that occurred shortly before their divorce in 1998. On August 25th, 1998, Dell Shackelford was arrested by the Iron County Sheriff's Department in Missouri and charged with forcible rape, forcible sodomy, assault in the second degree, And felonious restraint

Stephanie:

against his own wife.

Dani:

The assault happened in July of 1997, but Donna didn't bring the charges until the summer of 1998. On April 29th, 1999, in a preliminary hearing, The Associate Circuit Court found reasonable cause to bind the defendant over to the Circuit Court of Iron County to be arraigned. So they're like, yeah, there's enough evidence. We're going. Shakafort is facing 30 years to life in prison as a persistent sex offender. Donna was killed just 30 days after she testified him, against him in the preliminary hearing.

Stephanie:

That is awful. And you know what? Marital rape is really hard to prove. Yeah. A lot of states are like, Rape can't happen if you're married, so

Dani:

I wonder if that was kind of her motive on waiting. I think it might have taken her a lot of courage because she, A, it was 1998 and she's an attorney. She's seen it.

Stephanie:

And if you're in an abusive relationship, you know that. Any type of accountability, even if it's just bringing a subject up to someone, can make it worse. I think we've all had friends that are like, yeah, don't say anything, even when you know their partner is a piece of shit, and you know that it's going to make it worse for them at home, so you don't want them to get hurt worse, and gosh, that's terrible. To your wife, how disgusting.

Dani:

and I think that that is why she waited, it takes a lot of courage to do that, especially 25 years ago. Because how do you it's very hard to prove and she is a very smart woman. She is an attorney She didn't work as an attorney. She was an attorney and my apologies for that Like she worked as an attorney. No, she is an attorney.

Stephanie:

And so to be so familiar with the ins and outs of the legal system to wait. She did it for a reason

Dani:

and part of that could have just been processing it

Stephanie:

really and still having to go about your day to day life and they had kids didn't they not together not together

Dani:

but still they have to function and after you gotta keep living yeah and just In June, Lysater agrees to testify against Shackelford in return for a reduced charge. She pled guilty to being an accessory to first degree murder and perjury. She will not be sentenced to more than ten years in the plea agreement.

Stephanie:

Not a lot of time. Well, and how upsetting that this gross man has basically three women in a short span. His wife, his new fiancé, and then Lysater. He's gross. Disgusting.

Dani:

Hang on. She not only We'll testify against Shackelford, but also testify against the other four codefendants.

Stephanie:

She took the deal first a lot of these times It's just a who's gonna fold first because that takes the opportunity away from everyone else So I could see why she got the 10 year.

Dani:

She's like, yep. I'll take that. Thank you Lasater said she knew Shackelford had killed Donna, But withheld that information from the authorities The original charges against her stem from her making that staged tape recording between her and Shackelford where she would confess to hiring someone to kill Donna.

Stephanie:

Was she forced to do this?

Dani:

Listen.

Stephanie:

Sorry, if I'm jumping ahead, I'm sorry, but I just cannot, the common sense is not common sensing. I'm like, what are we doing here, ma'am? A press conference?

Dani:

She doesn't know what she's doing. Lysater was also charged for the tape she sent to the newspaper stating she traded sex and drugs to a man named Bobby in exchange for the murder of Donna. Lysater's attorney, Mark Moore, said she had lied to protect Shackelford because of their romantic relationship. Elle. She later discovered that she was just a pawn.

Stephanie:

I'm trying not to be too mean here, but Duh! Like, I don't know what else. He has a fiance, she's an employee of his, like you're the other, other woman essentially.

Dani:

The other, other, other woman. I'm not kidding, just ill. I'm gonna have you at some point in this podcast. I don't know.

Stephanie:

I'm trying to hold it together. I want

Dani:

you, I want you to see his, I want you to see what this. What

Stephanie:

he looks like?

Dani:

I was

Stephanie:

curious.

Dani:

Yeah.

Stephanie:

Well, I'm like, do we have a Brad Pitt on our hands? Who is this? Hold please. Oh my god. Hold please. Do do do do do do do do do do do.

Dani:

I want

Stephanie:

that hold music in here. That like, Dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun. I'm gonna insert it. Get the fuck out of here. I can't even look at that. Talk about a punchable face. Just a fucking pudge face. Oh, I don't even have the words.

Dani:

You know, it's kind of giving Dabell esque with less hair.

Stephanie:

Yeah, and is this

Dani:

and fat Dabell like a

Stephanie:

recent picture? No, this is when all of it was going on. Oh, cuz I'm like, well, maybe he's balding now. Now this man with these fucking hairlines. Gross. Gross. You guys, he's completely bald on top. And she just showed me a picture of him with no beard, naked face, which for most men a naked face is not flattering, but the longest hair, longer than mine, like past his man titties long. What the fuck? Just in case we put this on, like, are you seeing this? What is happening? And this guy had like four ladies after him in one way or another. He had all the bitches. Oh. That pudge face motherfucker. Ugh. Do you hate him even more? I do. Thank you. And I also, it does make me, listen, I'm not victim blaming here, but you know, some men can be very charming and attractive and then you find out, but it's like the red flag was the face, honey. It was right there looking at you. We're all lusting after this It's like literal bowl of pudding of a man. Oh, I gotta take a drink. My God, that was a salt on my eyes.

Dani:

It was so bad, huh? Do you see why I was so excited to tell you the story? And I'm like, when do I say to her, let's look.

Stephanie:

You're waiting for me to ask the question.

Dani:

Hmm. So in July charges against two of the defendants are dropped. John Abbott's and Martha Miller. We're accused of being part of the group plan to kill Donna. John Abbott's was charged for committing perjury to the grand jury for his knowledge of the murders and Miller was charged for helping make the tape sent to the newspaper. Lasater's cooperation with the authorities cleared the two.

Stephanie:

Okay,

Dani:

that is the only little bit of kudos I'm gonna give that bitch. I'm just telling you right now. We're

Stephanie:

just drug in or

Dani:

Well,

Stephanie:

they were just less of a part of it than,'cause

Dani:

John was Sonya's the fiance. Yeah, fiance's dad. And he might have known, he might have figured it out in his brain because he could be a smart man. But, so if you know of the crime and you don't tattle Yeah. Then some. Not if someone's gonna die.

Stephanie:

Mm-hmm.

Dani:

Well, I don't think he knew beforehand. He might have found out afterwards and that's what they I can

Stephanie:

put two and two together and know what you guys did.

Dani:

But, you know, Lesater said, no, they were not a part of this, so.

Stephanie:

Alright.

Dani:

Prosecutors asked the judge, John Stegner, I feel like he's been in another That sounds like a familiar name. Uh, to North Idaho has been poppin

Stephanie:

They are Booked and busy because there's three attorneys there

Dani:

judge John Stegner Was asked to invoke Idaho's equivalent of the three strikes you out law against Shackelford. Why you say it's coming It's coming. This will clear the way for prosecutors to seek A life prison term for Shackelford, even if they're unable to convict him of first degree murder. Okay. They just have to secure one conviction out of all those charges.

Stephanie:

I like it. In this case, I'm rooting for him. Yep.

Dani:

Shackleford's first prison sentence was in 1985. He was serving 15 years in prison on On a sodomy conviction when he met Donna. She was teaching a paralegal junior college class for inmates at the Missouri prison. No. He served 10 years before he was released in 1995.

Stephanie:

So she met him in jail? Spiritual advisors.

Dani:

I'm not saying that was the case. But

Stephanie:

it just goes to show, I mean, if we want to think of prison as rehabilitative, it isn't. It just teaches some people, for the most part, how to be more manipulative and how to fine tune their skills.

Dani:

Their trickery. Yes. Their fucking lying. Because they

Stephanie:

have nothing but time. To try out their different, ways of being narcissistic. It's like I just

Dani:

nailed me an attorney. Yeah, and I'm in prison for sodomy.

Stephanie:

They have

Dani:

not. I am the magic man, motherfucker. He's a sick bitch. So disappointing. The pair married in 1996, a year after he was paroled.

Stephanie:

Okay, I'm so pissed off about this.

Dani:

And little tidbit here. So I was like, how? Missouri, Idaho, Missouri, Idaho. How is this happening? After they were married in 1997, the couple came out to visit Donna's brother in Kendrick, Idaho, and decided to buy property together. And after the divorce Donna had got that property, but Dale bought a separate home in Kendrick.

Stephanie:

Hmm. What a nightmare. This is all a nightmare.

Dani:

And that's where he met his Like, third fiancé Sonia.

Stephanie:

At this point, I'd be moving to Mexico. I'm not dealing with that shit. You're coming cross country to still harass me and be, mm mm.

Dani:

Shackelford is claiming that Sonia Abbott's teenage brother, Brian, is the killer.

Stephanie:

Of course. Of course.

Dani:

Let me find somebody that, uh, I can just blame everything on. Oh, that guy.

Stephanie:

Dani, this is out of fucking control.

Dani:

Alrighty, so in October, the trial begins. Lead prosecutor, Robin Eckman, told jurors in the opening statements, they were in for a tale of violence, manipulation, lies, sex, and conspiracy. She couldn't say fuckery, but that's exactly. She said it's very complicated.

Stephanie:

I'm glad that she was preparing them though, just as you have with me, because this is why. Like, I

Dani:

wanted that to be the opening line of the podcast. Like, let me just tell you all the shit. And it's very messy. She said Shackelford shot and killed his ex wife Donna and her boyfriend Fred and then set fire to the two story building where they were staying. Motive? He needed to kill Donna because she was a witness in the rape trial scheduled to start in June of 1999.

Stephanie:

And do we know, was it, did you say it was 30 years on the line that he could have gotten for that? 30 to

Dani:

life.

Stephanie:

Wow. I'm surprised. Because he's a bad

Dani:

man and he's already been convicted of Other. Disgusting acts. Donna claimed Shackelford raped and restrained her. Prosecutors state Sonia, fiancé Sonia, and her mother Mary were pissed about the rape charges pending against Shackelford because it was interrupting the wedding plans of Sonia and Shackelford.

Stephanie:

As a woman, um, sorry Sonya, you're fucking garbage, I'm gonna say it you're weird. For that man, I mean for any man, but, ugh, gross. It's very inconvenient that he's having to deal with raping someone violently. We're trying to plan a wedding. That's not even bridezilla. That's like scum

Dani:

of the earth. So Mama Mary took on the role of private detective. She monitored Donna's movements and reported to Dell. John and Mary Abbotts are neighbors to the property where Donna and Fred were found.

Stephanie:

How

Dani:

Like, I'm gonna tell you, there's a lot of wilderness up there. I've been like, I am not gonna buy a piece. I'm not staying, well, it was her daughter's property and her brother's property, but I'd be like, I'm not staying there where my ex husband's new fiancé's family can watch me.

Stephanie:

to me.

Dani:

The fuckery. On the day they were murdered, Donna and Fred had to walk into the remote property because their truck got stuck. Standard, right?

Stephanie:

Yeah, lots of snow.

Dani:

While they were walking in, Shackleford went through the truck looking for the pistol he knew Donna carried. Her own gun. That's very smart, but that is so shitty. And then he walked towards the building and caught the couple. He shot Donna with a shotgun as she was going up the exterior stairs. Because remember, how that was built. He also shot Donna and Fred with a 32 caliber pistol.

Stephanie:

This is just so heinous.

Dani:

The prosecutors presented a taped interview where police were questioning Shackelford. We're going to get a lot of fucking quotes here, ladies and gentlemen. When they asked if Shackleford wanted Donna dead, he stated, No, I wanted to see her in prison. I wanted her to be wearing an orange jumpsuit, playing volleyball with Bertha.

Stephanie:

Okay, what a fucking strange thing to say, anyway.

Dani:

He claimed he did not want Donna killed. Quote, not physically dead, no. I mean, dead in career, yeah. Dead in the water, yeah. Dead, dead, dead? No.

Stephanie:

I just wanted her to cease existing.

Dani:

Shackleford said Donna was spending a large amount of time trying to ruin his life. Quote. I mean, I was out. I was out to do everything I could to destroy her. I wanted to kill her in every way except for this.

Stephanie:

Oh, sure. Likely story.

Dani:

And please don't ever tell Sonya this. Fiancee Sonya. But I am still in, not in love with Donna, but I still love that woman. You're a fucking fat

Stephanie:

ass. Gross obsession.

Dani:

He wants to love all the women, all the women love

Stephanie:

him. And he's upset that she didn't love him anymore because he violently raped her. Like, I thought you were going to be over this by now. We're not still friends? We can still be friends? Gross obsession.

Dani:

A friend of Shackleford, James Baker, testified that Shackleford had driven up to his house on May 28th, 1999 after dark. And remember, the murder happened on the 29th. He didn't have the lights on his vehicle on.

Stephanie:

Not suspicious at all. He

Dani:

was creepin When James asked about it, Shackleford said he didn't want anyone to know he was in town. When James asked about how Donna was doing, he replied, Donna is no more quote. Yeah, this is the day before though. So, I don't know. What a weird thing to say, regardless. Be like, oh, well, we knew you. Who talks

Stephanie:

like that?

Dani:

You know, it's very weird when couples break up and you have friends that are like couple friends But you still want to ask and still be respectful, right? And if you don't you don't say that you'd be like if you don't want to talk about it You're like, I don't know how she's doing or whatever. Just like I don't want to talk about

Stephanie:

her life Anyway, can I just tell you that Rick and I encountered this yesterday at lunch?

Dani:

No shit! You don't have So

Stephanie:

the yard house has tables very close together. We didn't have a booth, because of course they were packed. It's Valentine's weekend. But there was a trio of people, a girl and a guy who were together, and then a single guy. And we could hear their whole conversation. And they asked about like a breakup with the guy. He talked for almost our entire lunchtime. I mean, we were at least 40 minutes. They could barely get a word in. And you could tell because I kept glancing at them. They immediately regretted asking the question because they were just like, Oh, gosh. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. So anyway, I know off topic, but it was a, you know, I love a little eavesdrop.

Dani:

I do too. You get in the juice. Shackleford then asked Baker for an alibi, quote, Baker said, quote, he came in and wanted me to say that he had lunch with Katie, my wife and myself. He said, if I gave him this alibi.

Stephanie:

Put your money where your mouth is. How much we talking here? No,

Dani:

just favor me, bro.

Stephanie:

Quick favor, uh, you mind me doing me a solid and saying I had lunch here?

Dani:

Lie to the police?

Stephanie:

Even if you were to ask me that, Dani, I'd be like, Girl, what the fuck? You gotta tell me what's going on. I'm not agreeing to it.

Dani:

Not lying to the po po for you. Yeah. I love you. Love you, too.

Stephanie:

So much.

Dani:

No.

Stephanie:

This seems Don't drag me into

Dani:

your shit. Yeah. You want to go do some fuckery? Don't ask me. I'm not participating.

Stephanie:

Don't bring me into your bullshit.

Dani:

But James said he wanted no part of it.

Stephanie:

Absolutely not.

Dani:

Then Shackelford asked him, if I had two bodies to get rid of, how would I do it?

Stephanie:

Little late in the game, bro. Little late in the game. I know they didn't have Google. Well, this was the

Dani:

day before.

Stephanie:

I know they didn't have Google. But, they did plot this. Go to a library, I mean, there's You

Dani:

can look at books without nobody knowing what you're looking at. You don't have to check them out, bro.

Stephanie:

You don't even have to look them up in their Dewey Decibel System computer. Find out how the Dewey Decibel System works, and you find it yourself. Yeah,

Dani:

you pull open the cabinet. Boom. The little cards.

Stephanie:

Uh, I cannot imagine having So, Dani, if I needed to get rid of two bodies, like, how does one even do that?

Dani:

My immediate response would be like, yeah, uh, I don't know you anymore. I don't know what the fuck is going on, but you did just not say that to me and bye.

Stephanie:

Yeah, I have no idea who you are. What a loser.

Dani:

Martha Miller testifies after taking a plea deal. A lot of people are going to plead.

Stephanie:

They have no choice at this point. I cannot believe that so many people were willing to be a part of this whole shitshow.

Dani:

In exchange for her testimony, she will plead guilty to being an accessory to preparing false evidence and serve 18 months with five months already served. Not a bad deal. While on the stand, she said, quote, It is not my nature to hurt anybody or anything.

Stephanie:

Please.

Dani:

So, Miller was the woman that Lassater left her children with. Okay. When she disappeared. So, just to kind of go back to that. Miller admitted to buying a gun and following Donna around in the small town in Missouri and in Idaho at her Kendrick property.

Stephanie:

Where, how are you guys traveling to Idaho? For someone else, because listen, I mean, I love me a vacay. Allegedly, I may have helped with a little not harmful revenge on some people. You know, help your home girl out, allegedly. I'm not traveling to fucking Missouri. You want me to take time off for this? You want me to use my vacation? 1900 miles? You want me to use my vacation for this? No. No, we can, we can do a silly little harmless prank. Sure, I'm not using my vacation days for this, ma'am. No, absolutely not.

Dani:

I would love to know this alleged story later. Sure,

Stephanie:

thank you. It's a hypothetical story, of course. Yeah, people can write fiction. Yeah. It's great. I have a very vivid imagination.

Dani:

Miller claims she did this because of her, of her love of Shackelford. That blob. Quote, Mr. Shackelford is a very persuasive man. He persuaded me. That I could do it. He persuaded me that it was the thing to do for our relationship.

Stephanie:

Good girl, you're such a smart girl. Ladies, I know that there's a lot of movement and change in this way, but it's just like, have a little bit more respect and confidence in yourself. This shit is wild.

Dani:

Miller said Shakaferd often spoke about doing away with his ex wife. The two had met at a truck stop in 1998 while Shackelford was engaged to Sonia Abbotts. This is unbelievable. Their sexual relationship began the night they met and eventually they moved in together. And he

Stephanie:

has a fiancé? How does the fiancé not know? In Idaho,

Dani:

Missouri is a whole other thing.

Stephanie:

I want to punch my microphone badly.

Dani:

Miller said, quote, he has asked me to figure out a way or to do some very bad things. He said, I would be his forever if I did away with Donna Fontaine. I'm gonna fucking vomit. Miller said she attempted to kill Donna twice, once in Idaho at Donna's house and another time in Missouri. Poor Donna didn't even know her life was like, you know, it's coming. All of

Stephanie:

these weird ass groupies are watching her, trying to kill her. Plotting and

Dani:

this

Stephanie:

motherfucker

Dani:

is not no rock star. Okay, Jesus Christ. He far From there's

Stephanie:

no no, I just am the flabbers be gasted We'll say that

Dani:

Helen Hayes another former lover testified in the trial She

Stephanie:

said Shackleford

Dani:

called her after his arrest and blamed the murder again on Brian Abbott The little brother,

Stephanie:

a little teenager.

Dani:

He also gave her an alibi. He was sleeping with Karen Abbott's Sonya's sister in a semi-truck when Donna and Fred were murdered.

Stephanie:

This fucking slutty ass bitch.

Dani:

Floozy Hayes worked at the trucking company as well. He was fucking all of his employees.

Stephanie:

I want to die thinking of that. I'm sorry. That, I'm dissociating at this point.

Dani:

Hayes testified that Shackelford had offered her 5, 000 to get rid of Donna.

Stephanie:

That's uh, I mean, better than a thousand, like we saw with

Dani:

Better for nothing. Because, Lysater He

Stephanie:

told me I'd be really good at it, and that I could be like so good at it. Let's have a news conference about it. I'm so successful. But,

Dani:

Karen Abetz, she's just like, she testified and said, This just never happened. she's like, you're off your fucking rocker. And I, there was a lot she said about it, but she's like, that's an absolute lie. he asked her, asked Karen Abbott to lie about them having sex. And he said it in a way that was like, do you want your mom and sister to go to jail? You better lie. This is how manipulative he is. He's like, you need to tell everybody that we were fucking in my truck so that your mom and sister don't go to jail. How humiliating. That puddle of gloop. Isn't that so sad? And honestly, as a sister. Yeah,

Stephanie:

I can see where,

Dani:

like, he's very manipulative. Oh, shit. I just have to tell this one little lie, and then maybe my sister and mom won't go to jail. Cuz really sick. It's not that big of a deal. Still.

Stephanie:

No,

Dani:

but she got up there and was like,

Stephanie:

no. Eww, ick, no. Yeah. Good for you. At least someone has a head on their shoulders here and wasn't under this intoxication of this absolute blob of man. I'm so disgusted.

Dani:

Okay, let's say. I don't know how much more I can take. It's, oh. So This cunt Lysater, I'm going to tell you I fucking hate her and you're gonna know why a little bit But she's up there doing her her duty. She's doing her testifying for her plea deal.

Stephanie:

Okay

Dani:

So she was next to testify Lysater said she helped plant a bomb in a laundromat where Donna was washing her clothes. What does she mean laundromat? She and Shackelford built the bomb and then placed it in a backpack. I shouldn't be laughing. It's just so stupid. I'm sorry. She went into the laundromat. And set the backpack down next to a washing machine close to Donna. She went outside and using a remote control from a toy truck, she tried to set off the bomb. It failed.

Stephanie:

You gotta, sometimes you gotta hit the batteries. Lysater then

Dani:

reached out to Shackelford via walkie talkie to tell him it didn't work.

Stephanie:

It was 99, in all fairness. Rubber ducky, uh, failure. The eagle has landed but has not flown. I repeat, the eagle has not flown. Oh shit, they, these people were out of their minds on cocaine. That's the only thing that I can say. They're like, we can, we can build a bond. Let's build a bond. All of these crazy schemes, they think they're in a fucking Bond movie,

Dani:

So then she went back into the laundromat. And checked the wires on the bomb. Pardon me, just gonna. Excuse

Stephanie:

me. I left my bag with my bomb here. I just need to get.

Dani:

Does this look right to you? Lysater wiggled the wires and made sure everything was connected and tried again. Booze Flash still didn't work.

Stephanie:

Can I just say again, like how we've talked about many times, like. As a criminal, you, you should have some red flags for yourself as well. Like, we really fucking suck at this. We have failed at every There's been several people trying to murder this gal. There's people all over helping them. With a team this big, if you're still failing daily, just give it up. This is not your forte. I, I'm fucking losing my shit. Danny's crying.

Dani:

Uh, cause there's just so much. You're just. She's angry now. Just hold, hold, hold my beer. Hang on. Lusader claimed in a meeting, while in a meeting at the trucking company with Shackelford. Mary Abbott's, why was she in Missouri, and another employee that, quote, They would never have peace or a future while Donna was alive. You manipulative fuck.

Stephanie:

You're that into the, this woman's just living her life, she's moved on, and all of these people are so obsessed, like,

Dani:

Donna was happy, she Get a life. She found a guy that wasn't a fucking rapist

Stephanie:

she's got her little property, they're working on the property, and there's literal families just obsessed with, that she has to die. You fucked up my wedding

Dani:

plans because you're filing, why'd you get

Stephanie:

violently raped? Oh my god, I just want to literally slap each one of these people right on their fat fucking mouths.

Dani:

Mama Mary questioned whether Tana really needed to be killed.

Stephanie:

She's like, wow, what a level head. Guys, you know, murder does seem a bit over the top. I mean, maybe we could just like, flatten her tires or, you know, frame her for something. Plant some drugs on her, make her lose her career.

Dani:

Maybe we could find some property in Montana and move there so we don't have to be neighbors with her. Yes!

Stephanie:

Gosh, get a life, you freaks!

Dani:

Lysater said Shackleford asked her to kill Sonia Abbott because she knew too much. So now, kill my fiancé! Now all the mistresses

Stephanie:

are against each other. We're just gonna.

Dani:

Lysater was also engaged to Shackleford. I'm dead inside. He told her that if she killed Sonya, that would show that I love him and only him.

Stephanie:

These women, I'm so sorry, but they are being like a golden retriever fucking weirdo. Oh, if someone could tell me that I'm a good girl, I might murder someone. Get a grip! Get a grip! With how many men are available, I'm so sorry. Plenty o fish, bitches. He's not the prize. He's not the prize. But he'll tell me that I'm a very good and smart girl. Oh my gosh, I want to like, I want to, I want to headbutt the table at this point. I, I am losing it.

Dani:

On Wednesday, December 20th. The jury begins deliberations. This trial has had over 250 exhibits, 60 witnesses, and took over 54 days. Big trial. After two days of deliberation, the jury came back finding Shackelford guilty on six counts.

Stephanie:

Thank you, jury. Because I know that's a lot to go over, because you're always going to have a contrarian that's like, But what about this one piece of fiber that wasn't And there's so many people

Dani:

that I would just I would need strings, like, give me the red strings. How is this connected? So, six counts, first degree murder for Donna, first degree murder for Fred, first degree arson, conspiracy to commit murder, conspiracy to commit arson, and preparing false evidence.

Stephanie:

Thank you, Geri, for having your listening ears on, because like you said, very complex.

Dani:

Let's have a press conference. I'm surprised it

Stephanie:

only took two days. Because

Dani:

it there's a it's a lot of charges and someone's gonna

Stephanie:

want to go over every

Dani:

and there's a law I mean coup a two days is pretty good. Yeah, that's like four hours without all of them Yeah after the verdict Shackelford stated quote, this is we're gonna get a lot of talking from this fucker Just

Stephanie:

I can imagine

Dani:

it seems like they're kind of gems That's his weapon. That's his. My mouth is my weapon. And my bitches are my weapons too. So Shackelford stated, quote, I don't want to die, but if we have a death penalty and I'm convicted, then that's what I've got to do.

Stephanie:

Sayonara, sir.

Dani:

He also told reporters he would attempt to prevent any appeals. And wanted to skip pre sentencing. He said he would ask Judge Stegner to quote, Give me the death penalty if he's man enough to do it. Let's get it done.

Stephanie:

What a fucking weirdo. Boom! Big dog on the block here. What a fucking idiot.

Dani:

We have moved into 2001. Okay, Y2K. On January 10th, 2001, Mary Abbott S enters into a plea agreement. Okay. Uh, she agreed to an Alfred plea all a uh, staircase, thank you to perjury and accessory to the felony crime of murder with her voice breaking. Mary stated quote, I was told that if this went to trial, even if I was found not guilty, the prosecutor was probably going to file more charges against me anyway. This could go on for years. This is not fair to my family, unquote. Aww. You're gonna see these prosecutors push these women into doing, and they have, I like, I, I don't know the extent of her involvement, Mama Mary, in all of this. I think that she knew, but those prosecutors were like, we are gonna fuck you up. We're gonna nail you to the wall. Yep. And you're gonna see what ha what they do to Sonya here in a second. But Mama Mary was looking at a possible life sentence. You're dead to rights, essentially. I mean,

Stephanie:

yeah, they

Dani:

have so fuck

Stephanie:

around. Find out you, you with an Idaho

Dani:

jury. Fuck

Stephanie:

around and find out There are so many other activities y'all could have been doing, but you're obsessing over Poor Donna, living in remote northern Idaho for this absolute puddle of a man. Get your shit together

Dani:

With her plea, she will only have to serve. Up to 10 years. Only 10 years. Anyways, better than life up to 10 years in prison. So that's the maximum sentence she can get. She probably erred

Stephanie:

on

Dani:

the side

Stephanie:

of caution with that one, and I can respect that

Dani:

the next day. Well,'cause they just said like,

Stephanie:

we're gonna go ahead, fuck you up. Even

Dani:

if you, even if you win, we got more charges that we haven't laid out against, against you. We're

Stephanie:

ready. We're ready to go.

Dani:

And that's a very scary thing. Like, even if she, they, the prosecutor said, even if you win against these charges, we're gonna find some more. We're gonna bury you. And we got some more. So It's not scary. That's very scary. The next day, prosecutors added three more charges for Sonia. Fiancee Sonia. They're making it rain charges. They're like Oh! They're trying to pressure. This is what I think. They're trying to pressure these women. Because there was a lot of talk about the cost of these trials. They're trying to pressure these women into pleading out. So they don't have to do a whole trial. Because these are small counties. They do not have the resources to be pursuing each. There's so many people. Right. To pursue. Sonia was originally charged with first degree conspiracy to commit murder, conspiracy to commit arson, and being a principal to preparing false evidence. The new charges are accessory to murder, and two counts of perjury. And if this goes to trial, her mother Mary, Mama Mary, May have to testify against her with her plea agreement that she made. Yeah So as soon as mama said I'm gonna take the plea agreement, they're like, all right, we got her And now, guess what? And now we got all her info. Fiancé Sonia, we're gonna fucking nail you. We just found some more charges. That's what you get for doing all of this because someone who was violently raped was putting a damper on your wedding planning.

Stephanie:

Mmm, I'm so sorry. Get the fuck out of here with that nonsense.

Dani:

On January 25th, 2001, Miller is officially sentenced to 18 months in prison. Remember she testified, she had the kids, the, she worked. Okay. With five months already served, she could be eligible for parole in just six months. It's not a bad, not a bad rap for her. Just let this shit go. You met the wrong dude. You fell for the wrong dude. And you went to Idaho to spy on people, you fucking weirdo. Go back to Missouri. Go back to misery because you're a loser if this is how you're occupying your time. In February. Magistrate William C. Hamlet ruled that the two charges of perjury should be dropped, to be dropped against Sonia.

Stephanie:

Yeah.

Dani:

Because I think, and the prosecutor, the prosecutors were just bullying her. Mm hmm. Like, oh we're gonna charge you with this, trying to get her. To plea. Yeah. To plea. And the judge was like, no. They were using it as a bargaining chip of we could take this, this, this, this, this, this off. Even though they weren't really valid. Yeah. But they were trying to scare her. Alright. In the ruling, he said the accessory charge was broad enough to cover any lies Sonia may have told on the stand. Okay. Later in the month, prosecutors asked the court to also drop the charge of preparing false evidence against Sonia. Alright. That one's not gonna fly. Shackelford's sentencing has been delayed. One of his attorneys has been ill, but he also refuses to assist in the pre sentencing investigation. In May, Shackelford claims he designed an anthrax bomb in a vacant lot in Spokane, Washington. Bitch, we know you suck at this already. So yeah, the bombing ain't and I love the this was oh one Right, or O2 somewhere in there. That was all anthrax. Oh anthrax central. Everything's anthrax. People were sending baby powder to people they didn't like so that they think they got anthraxed. Really

Stephanie:

picking up on that.

Dani:

He said he will tell authorities where it is if they drop the charges against Mary and Sonya. Mama Mary, fiance Sonya.

Stephanie:

I will tell you my secret super secret anthrax bomb. Don't you guys want to know? Shut

Dani:

up, you attention whore. Latah County Sheriff Jeff Crouch said, Shackleford is lost in a figment of his imagination. But to err on the side of caution, he did contact the FBI in that area. Good, you have, I mean, you have to. You can't, you don't want to be the one that's like, yeah, right, and then there actually is a valid threat. So, good on him. In a five page handwritten document, Shackelford detailed the bomb plot he calls Spoilsport. This guy thinks way too highly of himself, you just know it. He claims four people created the bombs. I certainly hope you had help, sir. They included himself, two white supremacist leaders, And the president. And a federal fugitive. I mean, we are in North Idaho, so a little bit plausible, sure. Each person had a bomb, and they were created just in case they were ever arrested or killed. Yeah, because with all of the failed attempts and fuckery in this whole case, you sound like the person who has enough mental capacity to create a bomb in the event that you are arrested. Sure, sure, sure, Mr. Shacky. Yeah, you're very smart. His note said, quote, Spoilsport will kill tens of thousands of people unless someone with the proper knowledge stops it. So kill me if you will. You couldn't get a small bomb to work from a backpack in a laundromat, sir. But he claimed he built the bombs using the electronic training he received at an earlier prison stay. So, this one time I went to prison and they, they showed me how to make a bomb.

Stephanie:

Yeah.

Dani:

That one time.

Stephanie:

I had an electrical prison camp where we were learning about stuff. We made a clock with a potato. Did you know that? Oh my god. Please spare me. Um,

Dani:

But I learned from earlier lessons that we're not using remote control toys to detonate. I went to RadioShack and bought something a little better.

Stephanie:

I hate this guy so much.

Dani:

I know, that's like getting way too much. This stuff literally hitting my head. I'm like, He said that,

Stephanie:

like. Absolute dweeb.

Dani:

Back to, back to fiance Sonia. In another plea agreement, she pleads guilty to perjury. Because they were pushing her. They're like, oh, we're gonna add this and add that and add that. Prosecutors agreed to recommend up to 10 years in prison out of the maximum 14 in exchange for her testimony against Shackelford at his sentencing hearing. And like, give it up girl. What, what are you to gain by not turning and giving your testimony? Your mom's going to fucking jail. Your beloved glob of fucking pudding is in jail. Your mom is going to jail over this. It's fucking puddle grossness. Your mother. You probably traveled. Tell them everything. Tell them everything, sis. But Sonny's attorneys don't think the judge will give her more than eight months.

Stephanie:

Whatever. I don't even care at this point. I'm just like, make better choices. Please learn from this, you absolute dimwit.

Dani:

The woman hating you're doing today is great. I love you. Because there's

Stephanie:

only so far you can go. I, I, I hate to victim blame and clearly this is like a very persuasive person, but to see these people just falling over backwards and doing the most, like the most for someone else's failed relationship because he was

Dani:

charged with a violent rape. Let's take stock of what we're doing here. Like at what point are you not being a fucking idiot? You're being a fucking idiot I'm so sorry. Stop doing that. I love you so much

Stephanie:

You have got me fucking riled up. I

Dani:

told you you were gonna get me. I almost

Stephanie:

want to cry just out of frustration

Dani:

We're not

Stephanie:

even done!

Dani:

Okay, and because Shackelford isn't getting his way, he's causing more havoc. He asked his attorneys to help him get the death penalty. Shackleford asked Judge Stagner to tell his defense team not to argue on his He said he is counting on a new trial and would rather take his chances than give up any new information that could be used against him at a later trial. Still maintaining his innocence, he said, quote, If you want me to die, shoot me in the parking lot and get it over with. Why don't you get it over with yourself? But don't send me to prison for 15 years. First, on tax payers money. Baby ass bitch. I knew you were going to be so mad about this. I'm literally just I know you are, I know you are. I'm listening but I'm just like I know. I cannot. Judge said, you know, I have to know if you are legally competent. Do you realize what you're fucking saying you idiot. You're acting like a weirdo. The judge is like You all right, Bob? And Shackelford replied to the judge, I don't know who I am. Who knows? I love this judge. Judge Stegner said, quote, I'm gonna grant your wish, Mr. Shackelford. I still think it's necessary for the state to prove aggravating circumstances beyond a reasonable doubt and if they are unable to do that, Then I think I am unable to impose the death penalty. Basically what's happening here is he doesn't want any mitigating circumstances. He's just like, yeah, I'm up for death, fine. I don't want any of this testimony, I don't want any of this shit, just give me the death penalty. I'm gonna roll the dice cause I know I'm gonna get a new trial. Alright, let's call your bluff, motherfucker. Shackleford's attorney, Steve. Steve. Just Steve. Some dude named Steve. I think it's Mahaffey. Yeah, okay. Shackelford's attorney, Steve Mahaffey, argued that Segner's ruling would essentially guarantee that he will receive the death penalty. Isn't that what you wanted? His defense team is trying to protect him from himself. They have to. I get it. They're doing their job. The, the one defense attorney, no I'm just kidding. And asked, uh, I'm legally obligated to say that's a bad idea, even though my client's requesting it. So here I am saying, maybe don't. He did have a team though, so maybe more than one defense attorney. His defense team is trying to protect him from himself and asked the judge to delay the sentencing so the Idaho Supreme Court could have time to review the decision. Judge said, nope. I'm doing what your client wanted me to do. He literally is demanding it of me and said, If I'm man enough. So now I have to do it. Sentence to death. Judge said, quote, He is one of the most savvy defendants I have ever seen. If that is the choice he wants to make, being as intelligent and savvy as he is. I bet he loved hearing that. That's his choice. I'm a smart boy. Such a smart boy. But you know what? I love the judge's like, no, it's, he has a cunning motherfucker. And so guess what? Fuck around? Find out. Thank you. August, at the sentencing hearing, the families of Donna and Fred testify. Both families, of course, Shackelford had taken away from them by killing their loved ones. Shackelford wanted to cross examine the relatives. He even tried to fire his attorneys to do so.

Stephanie:

That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works, you dipshit.

Dani:

Shanna Avery, Donna's daughter, said her mother met Shackelford while she was teaching a paralegal class at Missouri, at the Missouri prison. He was in jail for sexually abusing a child. All wrapped up in a convenient sodomy charge. Wow. She said, quote, all of her life, She helped people, she raised people, and Dale took that away. She helped him, brought him to counselors, even though he didn't want to go.

Stephanie:

Like Donna. Trying to fix him. Yeah. And what did you say? You can't fix these fuckers. You can't fix them. You can't. Fix these fuckers.

Dani:

fred's son. Chuck Palahniuk Testified that his father never wanted his children to be embarrassed by a lack of education So he encouraged them to work towards a successful life quote with dad gone now most of what? Motivate us is gone.

Stephanie:

How terrible and he was just caught in the crossfires of this of just trying to build a life with Donna and He gets murdered. And what

Dani:

an exciting time in in your life when you meet a new partner that you're like, oh, this is it Yes, and

Stephanie:

you're

Dani:

building together and you're let's

Stephanie:

Let's do that. Creating your own new life and not knowing that they've got a literal gaggle of people just obsessing over their downfall. That's what's so wild to me. Like you're minding your own business and there's a group of people that are just plotting against you.

Dani:

Well Seder's testifying.

Stephanie:

Oh, let's hear it.

Dani:

She said, quote, The first few months were good. He was charming, he was nice, and was a very good person at the time. She said soon he was beating her and having her participate in three way sex with other women. Scandalous. Quote, I didn't want to, but you didn't tell Dale Shackelford what you didn't want to do. He told you what to do. Let's say, this is, this is tough for me. Lysater said when Shackleford pointed a gun at her, she offered a young,

Stephanie:

I cannot get over how much these women were fawning over him and willing to literally embarrass and humiliate themselves. I'm so, I'm so sorry. I, we know abusive relationships and they're, it is dangerous to get out. So I can give them that, but to basically put up someone as a Human shield to use a younger female relative as a human shield. That is evil shit. Like, is it cunt

Dani:

shit?

Stephanie:

Yes. You're being a cunt. Like Danny doesn't use that word as. Prolifically as I do. So I know when she says it that she's saying it for a reason and But yeah, that's no longer self preservation That is I'd rather you do it to someone else

Dani:

They took her to a bedroom and Shackelford handed the gun to Lysater and then he had sex with a girl quote and it's all because I didn't want to die I wish to God I would've. And a few weeks later, I did try to kill myself, but didn't succeed apparently, and now I have to live with this for the rest of my life. Go fuck yourself. I'm

Stephanie:

just For you to also participate in it, I mean, that's just another level of fucking bullshit. Like, you're sick as an individual to be like, not only am I gonna point, like, maybe go do this. But also help get the fuck out of here. I

Dani:

just, yeah. When the defense attorney asked Lasater Why didn't you just shoot him? You had the gun. She replied, quote, It wasn't free will. I did what he said to do. Nobody leaves still. Did you not see this man in front of, this man? I'm on stake by him.

Stephanie:

Please, to victimize It's a young girl that you are related to, like most women that are in this situation. This is why you don't hear shit like this very often, because as a woman knowing that pain and going through it, you would not wish it even on your worst enemy. But to be like, you know, I've got to really prove my love. She didn't say to, she didn't even say to protect herself. She said to prove her love. So you weren't doing this to avoid harm to yourself. You needed to prove something to him, to be a good girl. Mind blowing and gross. Zero out of ten stars. You lose. I knew this was gonna have you lit

Dani:

up. I told you, even before we started. I'm fucking frustrated. So Miller is on the stand, back on the stand. In exchange for her testimony, these, I don't even not, these, okay. In exchange for her testimony, Texas authorities promised they would not prosecute her for filing a false report there. The charge was over a supposed stolen tractor trailer. You know, they're all into the trucking business, right? She also received immunity from two counties in Missouri, and I don't know what for, but

Stephanie:

they're just passing out immunity for

Dani:

Miller says she met Shackelford in January of 1998, was intimate with him, and then became a business partner in the trucking company. Wow. She said after the murders, the relationship became abusive. Quote, He has a magnetism that's unbelievable. He'll find your weak points and use them to his advantage. Yeah, you heard that. Quiet.

Stephanie:

It is apparent though. I mean, what she's saying is true. Because it's It's a very, you can see the pattern,

Dani:

No. Loser. Shackelford asked the judge to let him play a tape conversation with the alleged young victim he sexually abused. Alleged. Anyway. His attorney did not want to use the tape.

Stephanie:

Obviously.

Dani:

Judge Stegner, let him play it. You want it? He's like, dig your own grave, please. Keep digging. Yes. Let him play it as a part of a defense, as part of a defense against Lasseter's testimony. The preteen stated on the tape that Lasseter had a gun and forced her to have sex with him. But they only faked it. So let me just, let me take you way back into the beginning of the story. Lasseter's daughter was 12. And I don't know if that was actually her or not, but the 12 year olds, like, there's a chance. I think it's

Stephanie:

one whether it is or not. I mean, it makes it even more Abhorrent. Yes,

Dani:

so I just had to kind of bring you back to the beginning of the story

Stephanie:

That is something that I've heard of before of women doing that like the movie precious so disgusting

Dani:

after the satyrs testimony She is finally sentenced under the plea deal made last year. Judge Stegner sentenced her to two to five years for the accessory charge and two to six years for the perjury charge and giving her 18 months credit for time already served. Sentences will be served concurrently. After her release from Idaho, she will be sent to Missouri to face charges of forcible child rape and armed criminal action.

Stephanie:

Yes, because you're And that fucking cunt!

Dani:

Facing life in prison in Missouri.

Stephanie:

This is like one of the only good things I've heard so far

Dani:

Fiancee Sonia was also sentenced. This is all going on. Fiancee,

Stephanie:

Fiancee, Fiancee, Fiancee, Fiancee,

Dani:

Fiancee, Fiancee, Fiancee Well, this trial is going on as like a little sidebar like hey you testified come here. I'm gonna convict you you testified I'm gonna convict you Come get

Stephanie:

your licks

Dani:

So fiance Sonia Was sentenced, Judge Stegner sentenced her to two to seven years for perjury. You get what you can get. Against his attorney's advice, Shackleford testifies. Let's hear it. Okay, we're gonna hear lots of quotes. Still claiming his innocence, he was not as shy about answering any questions. Yeah, I manipulate people all the time. Duh. Thank you. He's like

Stephanie:

a fucking valley girl. He's like Regina

Dani:

George. He also wanted to mention that he still has a bomb. I bet it's still set to go off. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You

Stephanie:

still have a bum. Okay, thanks for the reminder.

Dani:

Also, Shackleford claims Donna's still alive. Prosecutor Ekman looked bewildered. Quote, you don't think Donna's dead? His response, quote, no, I don't. When asked about the identity of the female corpse that was found, he responded, I don't know who that is, but whoever it was had a uterus.

Stephanie:

Somebody let me visit this motherfucker.

Dani:

Shackleford does believe Fred is dead, but states, the other body was only identified by one tooth. That's a fire.

Stephanie:

Dental records do not lie, bro. They have literal imaging of people's exact teeth, like over years. There's, oh my god, I just.

Dani:

He also claims 100, 000 worth of jewelry is missing along with a law school ring Donna always wore. Because you probably stole it after you, before you lit the fire. Yeah, these things were pointing that out. Oh, but Shackelford's mother has even seen Donna. My mom had lunch with her last week. And his alibi for the time the murder took place? He was in Lewiston, Idaho, getting a load of books from the Aryan Nations representatives to be trucked back to Missouri. I was getting my white

Stephanie:

supremacy books. They can vouch for me. Mine come. I, I was picking up a few copies from my friends in Missouri.

Dani:

Shackelford said all the witnesses that testified against him were quote just playing cards and that's all this is just a house of cards okay he also wants to talk about the movie that he assumes is gonna be made about this case and then where am I gonna get my cut in his opinion he's testifying this um he is testifying in his opinion Kathy Bates should play Prosecutor Ekman. Dylan McDermott and Ben Stein could play as attorneys. Miller should be played by Ernest Bardonine. Danny DeVito would be the Latah County Sheriff Crouch. And Osama Bin Laden should play the other prosecutor.

Stephanie:

Who is saying, you have to have so much self confidence and ego to be like, you know, if I had any say in it, in the movie, this is, this is my dream casting for the movie. As if you're being, interviewed by Seventeen magazine. If someone were to play a movie about your life, who would be the star? How did this even come up in conversation? He's like, uh, just before we end my testimony I just wanted to say for the record, this will be made into a movie. Shut the fuck up.

Dani:

Quote, he said, quote, a new judge would be played by Howard Stern. The judge stepped in and said, quote, are we going somewhere with this?

Stephanie:

Get to the point, yeah. And his response

Dani:

was, quote, Oh yes, we are. I offer this as a moment of levity because this is serious. They're asking you to kill me. They are asking you to take me out there and shoot me or have somebody else do it. Nobody's shooting you, motherfucker. It is lethal injection. Ugh. Nobody's shooting

Stephanie:

you. We need a little bit of comedic release in this. Thanks for the looking out, bro. The fuck?

Dani:

Oh

Stephanie:

my god. Okay.

Dani:

Can I just tell you a fun fact? You ready for your fun fact? Is it

Stephanie:

gonna be fun, Dani? It's pretty Is it actually fun? It's pretty good, actually. Okay, tell me.

Dani:

Charles Pagnynick, Fred's son, wrote five novels, including The Fight Club.

Stephanie:

You're fucking shitting my dick. I'm

Dani:

not shitting your dick.

Stephanie:

I am bamboozled at this case. Just the Fight Club?

Dani:

The Brad Pitt? Yeah. Yeah. That one. Hell yeah. So when he was talking about his dad and the education and all that stuff, like, his dad was a fucking badass.

Stephanie:

And he pushed, wow. Yeah, fun fact. How have I never heard of this case? This is, I was very proud of myself. Danny, you've done a lot with, I don't even know how you walked me through this story because there's so many mistresses and mothers and just

Dani:

Fiancés. Fiancés. Féisés. And guess what? What? Boom. This fucker is sentenced to two death sentences for the murder of daughter and friend by Judge Stanton. Go! The judge stated quote Mr. Shackelford is a prototypical psychopath.

Stephanie:

He

Dani:

knew what he was doing when he did it. He was also sentenced to a fixed prison term of life for the conspiracy to commit murder and 25 years for arson and conspiracy to commit arson and five years for preparing false Evidence! Get a motherfucker! That's good news.

Stephanie:

And it was a fun fact. I do appreciate that. No, it wasn't! Like, if you tell me of another fuckery, I'm gonna lose it. Like, this better be fun, bitch. It was fun. It was

Dani:

fun. Thank you. In December In a post conviction relief petition, Shackleford's appellate attorneys are claiming he plotted to kidnap one of his trial attorney's wives. Shocker. And that attorney should have reported the blackmail threat as a potential conflict of interest. True. But he did not. But he did not. And they claim Shackleford received ineffective treatment. because of that and deserves a new trial. Are you exhausted yet?

Stephanie:

Well, how could we expect an attorney to give him good counsel if he's threatening to kidnap the wife? I'd be wanting to get an extra good counsel. If he didn't say anything about it, he's, he's trying to write hard for his client.

Dani:

No, I think he's like, I'm not scared of this stupid mother. You might be able to manipulate women. Oh, is it your anthrax bum? But I'm not scared of you. Loser. Okay. 2002. December. Shackelford lost a bid to have the Latah County Prosecutor charged with a crime. He asked that Prosecuting Attorney Ekman. A. K. A. Kathy Bates, to be charged with knowingly calling a false witness who lied on the stand during his grand jury phase. He claims Lassater told the grand jury that she had hired a hitman to kill Fred, but later said that that was a lie. Lassater claimed Shackelford had coached her in the lie. Ekman knew the story was a lie. But allowed Lysater to testify against, who gives a fuck about this cunt? Magistrate Bill Hamlet denied this request saying there was not enough information in the complaint to determine if criminal charges were warranted. Basically, your paperwork wasn't good enough. You manipulative motherfucker, work on the paperwork. All right, are you ready? I don't know, Dani. Okay, Lysater is extradited back to Missouri in March. I do like that. She is charged with forcible rape and armed criminal action.

Stephanie:

Thank you.

Dani:

In August, she pleads guilty to the charge and is sentenced to 20 years in prison. Rot. Rot. Rot. She offered the victim to Shackelford. After he had taken another woman to St. Louis for an abortion, the unborn child was supposedly his and he did it for Lysater. And so this is what's like,

Stephanie:

Thank you for I have com I have competition. I've got to show him I really love him. And this is what you do? You're a fucking psychopath. You have something fucking wrong with you. Gross ass bitch. Get out of here. Rot.

Dani:

The one that, uh, Shackelford said killed everybody and started the fire.

Stephanie:

As a teenager. And this

Dani:

is just, it just makes me sad for the Abbott's family just because I do believe, I mean they're stupid, but I do believe they were manipulated and I'm sorry for your stupidity. Not, not really. As a

Stephanie:

teenager, what are you gonna do?

Dani:

Yeah but Brian Abbott's is missing. His car broke down near his home and people saw him walk off into the dark. His body was finally found in March of 04, close to where he'd last been seen. Just another heartache for this family. I mean. I'm not saying that they weren't involved in these choices, but just, baby brother accused of doing this, and I don't think, he had nothing to do with it. Yeah,

Stephanie:

I don't think he had anything to do with it.

Dani:

Also, In 2004, a former LaTaw County detective is charged with illegally taping witnesses in Shackelford's case. Detective Curtis Hall had Shackelford and several other witnesses fill out a statement the night of Donna and Fred's murder. They were already on them. He had a tape recorder in his pocket of his Jackets, he left the house twice that night leaving his jacket at the house with a tape recorder still on

Stephanie:

Prosecutors Oh Leaving his his jacket at their house. Yeah. Okay. Sorry. I was like, so he left it at home Well, no, he left it at their house like a wiretap. Yeah Okay, poor guy Prosecutors said

Dani:

nothing on the tapes helped him convict Shackelford But it is a felony. Hall broke the law because in Idaho, at least one of the people being recorded has to give consent. Which is kind of badass. Meaning I can record all my phone calls because I'm giving consent. In 2005, Judge Stegner throws out the death penalty for Shackelford. Why class?

Stephanie:

Constitutional fuckery.

Dani:

Because only juries can hand down the death sentence, not judges.

Stephanie:

Okay.

Dani:

In 2010, the Idaho Supreme Court Upholds the murder conviction, Shackelford can now be re sentenced. And in 2011, the LaTaw County Prosecutor said he will not be seeking the death penalty at the re sentencing. Because it would require him to have a new trial to reconvict him.

Stephanie:

You know what? And I get it. Because these small counties especially, it's like, we don't have the time for that. We don't have the resources for that. He said,

Dani:

we simply can't justify it. Yeah. So, rot! Shackelford is re sentenced to life in prison. Which I love because it takes away so many of his Yeah. Appeals. Okay. In 2025, Lisater is out of prison and according to her sex offender registry, lives in St. Louis. And Shackelford is 62 and resides at the Idaho State Correctional Center. And I'm not, don't, I'm, I'm not promoting this. THIS MOTHERFUCKER HAS A BLOG! I don't know how to, he has a blog. And, yeah and he talks a lot about the, what's going on in prison. And it's kind of silly, but I will say one thing he did, he sued the state to get electric razors. Uh, so Creech is fucked, and he won! He said if women can have electric razors I don't know why men can and creatures like shut the fuck up How

Stephanie:

am I gonna get my razor? I mean how funny the cross prisoner Beef like that motherfucker thought. Am I supposed

Dani:

to get a Slicey Dicey?

Stephanie:

Used to be all I needed was a toothbrush and a and a razor, and now what am I supposed to do anyways?

Dani:

Shock Offord is a manipulative piece of shit, and Seder is a cunt.

Stephanie:

That's all I got. End of story, like truly, I, and listen, this is just a big call out of self-reflection for everyone of. You start dipping toes into this weird murder obsessive shit. Listen, Dani and I are fucking besties and I, I would do a lot of things to help Dani. Um, Do you get rid of

Dani:

couple dead body stuff?

Stephanie:

I would, I would for one be like, this is very out of character for you. You're a planner. So are you having struggles at home? Is there, do we need, is there something up here? I'd be like, you're the type that would already have this planned out and be like, could you just do XYZ for me? And then. Don't ask what it's about. So I would be concerned and so the tick tock.

Dani:

What is it the the I'm gonna hurt some people,

Stephanie:

right? Yeah, yeah. So I'd be like, Danny, I feel like, what's going on at home? Because you would normally have this type of thing planned out to a T, so I'm concerned.

Dani:

And I wouldn't involve anybody else for the record. No, no. And so, I'm not looking to get anybody else in trouble. I will handle this myself.

Stephanie:

Yes, let's all just take this as a lesson, mind your business, pay attention to the things that pay you and enrich your life. That's all I've got. I feel like you guys have heard me flail mentally and Emotionally too much through this episode already. So that's all I've got I'm sorry, if y'all think it's an overreaction, but god damn this I have never heard This level of fuckery,

Dani:

the researching I was just like, oh my god She's

Stephanie:

been telling me how excited she was for this and I don't tell

Dani:

stuff about these

Stephanie:

Stories before I tell her. I think she always has a great story it but this one she's like, no you don't you're not Understand you're already gonna be mad. It is Ridiculous and I'm like, yeah, sure. Sure. Sure. She was right. I almost tipped over the table.

Dani:

Yeah Thanks for listening.

Stephanie:

Yes. Thank you. Follow us. We've got a new TikTok out for you. We're trying to be entertaining for you. Let me just say, like we said, TikToking is some serious business. So follow us on TikTok, Facebook, Instagram. Email us at thelethalibrary at gmail dot com.

Dani:

And you can find us on anywhere you listen. Stuff's really good at that. Yeah. It's

Stephanie:

everywhere. So. And if it's not somewhere, tell me. I'll figure it out. Let us

Dani:

know. So. Alrighty guys. Have a good night.

Stephanie:

Bye.

Dani:

10 4 rubber ducky. Fuck yeah.

Thank you for watching.

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