The Lethal Library

31. History Repeats: The Fatal Return of Palmer

• The Lethal Library • Episode 31

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Join hosts Dani and Stephanie as they unravel the chaotic criminal history of Edward Palmer, Idaho’s most persistent bad penny. From parole board failures to double murders, this episode dives deep into the dark and twisted tale of how Palmer slipped through the cracks. Expect a mix of true crime storytelling, sarcasm, and a healthy dose of disbelief as our hosts explore how a man convicted of a brutal 1977 murder ended up back on the streets to strike again. Listen in for a saga of bad decisions, mountainside mischief, and the ultimate consequences of a seriously flawed system.

Contact The Lethal Library at TheLethalLibrary@gmail.com. Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok!

Stephanie (2):

Alright everyone, welcome back to the Lethal Library. I am your host Stephanie. And I'm Danny. And today Danny is gonna tell us yet another sorted case of crime in Idaho. What do you got

Dani:

for us, Danny? So here's a question for you. How many times does a guy have to get busted before someone says, Hey, maybe this guy should stay in prison.

Stephanie (2):

Well, I'm Cree great example there, but sometimes, many times it shouldn't take that much.

Dani:

Oh, well, apparently in Idaho it takes a few buckle up Friends, this one is a double header of bad decisions, parole, board failures and murder in the mountains. Let's dive into the dark story of Edward Palmer. Idaho's very own bad penny that just won't go away. Sources used in this episode are articles from, Bonner County Daily Bee, the Idaho World, and that bitch, the Idaho Statesman, love you On May 20th, 1990, Boise couple, David Middle Mist and Kathy Enoch took a short scenic drive towards Idaho City. the couple was out to deliver a stuffed animal machine to the Clear Creek Lodge, just south of Idaho City. And I think that the stuffed animal machine was a claw machine. That's just what I picture. I bet. Yeah. When they arrived at the lodge, the power was off due to a recent storm in the area, no one was around. So they headed up to Idaho City to kill a little time. David and Kathy ended up at Killer Steakhouse in Saloon. Those who know, no, that is where they were last seen about eight 30 that night at the bar. Is that the, is that the one,

Stephanie (2):

I think it's now the something or other saloon. Is it the one with the little outside area? Yeah. Like for a band and Yeah. I'm pretty sure it's that one.

Dani:

When the couple didn't return home that evening, the families called authorities and reported them missing.'cause this was just not like them. Yeah. And, and Idaho City is a, is a short, that's a really nice day trip.

Stephanie (2):

Yeah. And in May you shouldn't be having bad weather or super snowy roads. I will say. Idaho City is still plagued with power outages just because it is in a very mountainous area with a ton of trees. And so they still do experience more outages than most places in Idaho.

Dani:

The next day, their families headed up to Idaho City to try and find them a family member located David's 1978 Chevy pickup, parked outside of the bar. Inside the truck was Kathy's sweater and the keys were still in the ignition. Red flag. Red flag. After speaking with witnesses that were in the bar that night, detectives turned to Clear Creek Lodge, nine miles south of Idaho City.'cause that was their original destination. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So did they go back? Did someone give'em a ride? What's up? Authorities were searching around the area and even brought in dog teams to assist in the search. The couple seemed to have vanished, which I will say for them to be bringing in dogs day one or two is pretty unique, especially

Stephanie (2):

for adults. Right. Definitely. They're like, how do you know they didn't just run off to Cancun? Right. Is always the thing. Well, they're adults. They can, they can leave and not tell anyone. And I feel that most people know the type of person that does that. And you might have a crazy cousin or friend where you're like, you know there, there was that one time that went and did a like 12 week backpacking in Europe and kind of forgot to let us know, but we knew that they were the type to do that. But when you hear some of these cases that are so frustrating where it's like, yes, I know that my daughter is 19, but my daughter would not do this. She's an adult now. But this is like, we know where her car is. There's like five or six pieces of evidence that are like. Eh, this is not right. And they're still like, well, it's the adult rule. Like let's use some discernment.

Dani:

Let's So for this small county to start bringing out search dogs, and recognizing that there was something wrong in the 1990s, kudos huge. That's a big deal.'cause I mean, we've covered cases, we've, we've heard cases where it gets so

Stephanie (2):

frustrating.

Dani:

They're just like, eh, dunno what to tell you. Yeah. They're adults. No, they're adults missing.

Stephanie (2):

Yeah. Ugh.

Dani:

In June, authorities want to question the Clear Creek Lodges manager, ed Palmer, they discovered Palmer left town just two days after David and Kathy disappeared. Not the manager. Boise County Sheriff Craig Landers said quote, he left about a day after the people were reported missing and we'd like to ask him if he knows anything about it.

Stephanie (2):

Yeah, you were the manager, sir. You're not just some dishwasher that's floating around through towns.

Dani:

It has us a little curious as to why he left. We want to talk to him. Awful bad. We think he could answer a few questions for us.

Stephanie (2):

How Idaho. Nice. You know, we've just really like to talk to him. Awful bad. And we don't have a southern accent here, but I Idaho Nice. Is like, people say, people in Idaho are so nice and people are generally nice and will help you. But Idaho nice and New York nice are different. New York nice is like extremely genuine, but kind of an asshole while saying it. Idaho Nice is always a pleasant demeanor even if someone is being rude to you. So we'd like to talk to him. Awful bad.

Dani:

Awful bad. Yeah. And it's not even a southern Yeah, but that, I thought that was, it was very cutesy. Mm-hmm. How he was asking this guy, we do have guns that are looking for you, uh, and they were delivering items to your. Place of business that you were managing and so we just we're just curious. There's an

Stephanie (2):

undertone there.

Dani:

Yeah, it was. Yeah. I love that Sheriff Lands said Palmer is also wanted for a parole violation stemming from a 1978 felony conviction. Ooh. But refuse to release the nature of the crime. Ooh. Quote. We don't have anything showing that Palmer has a connection with a disappearance, but we'd like to question him from what we hear. He left on his own. That's what's kind of strange.

Stephanie (2):

Very much like y'all need to tell us where this person is because just

Dani:

very weird. He just up and left and he is on parole. the owner of Clear Creek Lodge, but Irwin. It said Palmer left around 4:30 PM on May 22nd. Hmm. with no leads. Boise County Sheriff asked the FBI to join the investigation in July. They really want to find Palmer and asked the FBI to help in the investigation because they believe he is out of state.

Stephanie (2):

You jumped town, you jumped state. FBI. Come on in. They, they're very, very proactive. We're not talking about three years later like FBI. Can you help us? No. And that's what

Dani:

super. And if this county is so tiny and it's tiny now. Mm-hmm. It was super tiny. If that's even val, like super tiny. Yeah. in 1990. Mm-hmm. Sheriff Lander said, yeah, we have an idea of where he is at. Ooh. So I think that they knew where he was at and they're like, yo, FBI, we can't go over there. that's not in within our jurisdiction, but you can so come help us. Like we already help us out. We don't ask for a lot. We're Idaho. Nobody lives here. and also it's not gonna be hard work'cause we're just gonna tell you where he's at. Yeah. Your time to

Stephanie (2):

shine. Go ahead and say you

Dani:

found him. Yeah, but Palmer turned himself into authorities on July 7th for his parole violation

Stephanie (2):

But they didn't say what the nature of the crime was. But from the seventies,

Dani:

right? 78, he was a felon, when questioned. So he's like, yeah, I did it. I broke my parole. Okay, I'm going back to jail. When questioned by detectives about the missing couple, Palmer refused to talk.

Break:

Ooh.

Dani:

He only stated that he is afraid for his life because of all the publicity around the missing person's case, and that he had left Idaho to visit his sick, sick sister in Washington. Tongue twista.

Stephanie (2):

Hmm. Very convenient.

Dani:

Very. On October 14th that year, a hunter was out elk hunting. He aimed at three cow elk under some trees and took a shot. The elk fled and he followed a blood trial to locate the cow. He had shot. He got one. Leroy Griffith said quote, I noticed all these bones while I was looking for the elk. I saw something that looked like a leg bone and some other bones, but it didn't dawn on me what they were. Then he noticed a round object beneath the tree, quote. I didn't know what it was until I picked it up.

Stephanie (2):

E. Well, and I would have honestly two, because sometimes you only see a piece and you're like, what is this? And some of those bones, like a hip bone and stuff from an animal, like they have rounded points and you find some crazy cool bones out there. So,

Dani:

and a bunch of pine needles who mm-hmm. Like

Stephanie (2):

you don't, but still. But then picking it up and realizing,'cause there's no mistaking the shape of a human skull. There really isn't.

Dani:

he said quote, the minute I found out it was a skull, the elk hunting was over with. That's so ido. I went home in a beeline and called the sheriff. It's spooky how I was led to it on the first day of hunting season.

Stephanie (2):

Anyway, good on him for saying, Nope, hunting's over.

Dani:

Hunting's over, gotta go. Yeah. There's no cell phones, there was no nothing. No. You really gotta just literally call it a day. I bet it jolted

Stephanie (2):

him it sounds

Dani:

like. Oh, I would've been, yeah. He, you know this, I feel hunter manly man. Mm-hmm. But I bet you that was traumatizing.

Stephanie (2):

Oh yeah.

Dani:

and he just said it in a very calm way, when speaking to the media, and police detectives. But I'm sure when he got home he had a different, Some

Stephanie (2):

that's gotta rock you. Oh, it's picking it up. I'd been like, and you know that it's not like ancient, you know, no

Dani:

appropriate timing. The partially decomposed skull of Kathy Enoch was found about four miles southeast of Clear Creek Lodge. She was identified by dental records. Sheriff Landers brought more dogs into the search area and another skull was located three days later. The authorities believe it's David Sheriff Landers said quote, I think we finally located our two people. We found the lower portion of a body with some clothing. We also located a skull and what appears to be a backbone terrible in May of 1991. Ed Palmer is charged with two counts of first degree murder. He is accused of shooting David and Kathy in the head with a 44 caliber pistol. A woman that lived and worked at the lodge, Michelle Taylor said she had left the lodge that day to go to Boise with family. When she returned around sundown the lodge was locked. And there's a lot of small towns around here that you have to travel. They're to get

Break:

mm-hmm.

Dani:

Things, I mean, they're gonna have a small little convenience

Stephanie (2):

store,

Dani:

if even Yeah. I mean, that's gonna be, some towns have a little grocery store, but you're paying a lot of money. Yeah. And if you're running a lodge, you have to have bulk items. so the, it's a 45 minute drive, maybe down to Boise. And so it's a, that's what you do. You drive down to the valley and get your stuff. So take care of any errands you need to do, your doctors, your dentist, your, anything you need. You wanna buy clothes, you're, unless you want them to say Idaho City and pay$40, you're driving to the Valley to get'em.

Stephanie (2):

So, absolutely.

Dani:

Uh, Michelle that day had noticed David's truck, but she couldn't find anybody at the lodge. She then drove to Killer's the restaurant and her family dropped her off around 10:00 PM and shortly after Palmer walked in the front door. Michelle said quote that night, I saw Ed. I didn't think he was drunk. He looked totally out of it. Totally. He seemed to be dazed that he was, and he was coughing real bad. Michelle said quote that night, I saw Ed. I didn't think he was drunk. He looked totally out of it. Totally. He seemed to be dazed and was coughing real bad. Hmm. Maybe he was out of breath or, I don't know. Can sometimes anxiety cause you to like have like a reaction like that? Like maybe a coughing

Stephanie (2):

or that could maybe do it? I think it could be an out of breath.'cause listen, if I had to hike up and down a hill three, four miles away from my business, I would probably just be flat on the ground coughing. So,

Dani:

so he's been, he's been charged and we're clear into September of 1992 before the trial begins. Prosecutor Michael Kane said in his opening statement that witnesses saw Palmer stumble along the streets of Idaho City on May 20th, as if he was drunk. So we're getting different reports,

Stephanie (2):

eyewitnesses,

Dani:

different

Stephanie (2):

people are

Dani:

seeing different things. Quote, the defendant admits he was with them. He said he took them for a ride and then took them back. Only the defendant knows what happened over the next two or three hours referring to the couple,

Stephanie:

Hmm.

Dani:

defense attorney Bob Chastain declined to make an opening statement. Why are you gonna be fucking weird about things? I

Stephanie (2):

don't like

Dani:

that. Why do you

Stephanie (2):

gotta be weird? I feel like that's a good chance for a defense attorney because for one, you wanna keep an audience. Listening and doesn't the defense usually go last? Yeah. So you want to say, listen, you're going to hear this, this, and this, and you wanna give them a smidge of, keep this in mind. We've got things that show this. We've got things that show that. So you just wait and keep that in your head that way. Hopefully they haven't won over the hearts and minds completely. And they're like, okay, I, I heard what the prosecution said, but I do want to hear about that one thing that he mentioned. So I'm gonna be listening instead of being like, it's a, it's a closed case. It's a wrap. This guy's guilty. So bad choice in my opinion.

Dani:

And it's just weird. Look, if I'm a juror, I'm expect if I watch law and order, I am expecting opening statements. Okay. I don't care. Yeah. I am expecting'em. So if you're gonna be that weird attorney, it's like, we're gonna reserve our opening statements before we present our testimony. Okay. You're weird.

Stephanie (2):

It is weird, especially because the prosecution likely just railed your client and was like, I'm gonna show you this and I'm gonna show you this. It

Dani:

gives me immediate doubt.'cause I'm like, why wouldn't you just tell me your story? Because that's what these opening statements are. It's your story. You're gonna lay out your case, you're gonna tell you why you're gonna think this way and what you're gonna produce and present. Yeah. But you just leave me hanging.

Stephanie (2):

Yeah, it's, it's very weird. I understand a defendant not testifying. Right. I can totally understand that. This I don't understand

Dani:

because I feel like why wouldn't you just sit? Because on the outside looking in as a juror, I'd be like, oh, they wanna hear their whole story before they present their story.

Stephanie (2):

Yeah.

Dani:

Sketch. Interesting. remember Chastain, he was priest, defense attorney, so mm-hmm. We've discussed him before. during the trial, FBI experts testify that the bullets that killed David and Kathy may have come from Palmer's Black powder revolver. A scientist Vincent Gwen testified for the defense, he said. And that the FBI made a number of mistakes when analyzing the bullets to kill the couple. He said the copper value from the bullets did not come from the same batch of lead found in other bullets known to be owned by Palmer. And there was also a question about how they located some of the other bullets authorities claimed to be palmer's.

Stephanie (2):

Hmm. Now, I wish I could remember, but it was a recent dateline where lead analysis came into the equation. I think it was around this time, maybe earlier a little bit, but that that is not a science that is used for gun like guns anymore. And it was kind of proven to be junk science. I could be wrong if you know something different, if you're a expert in this field, tell me about it. But I feel like I just heard that on a dateline where the like, yeah, this isn't even a valid way that you can do comparing like the lead batch. It's no good. For what it's worth.

Dani:

So let me tell you why he's questioning like, okay, this is where you got the bullet samples from. So when Palmer left town, he went and gave that gun. He was like really big into these black powder guns. Black. So he went and gave this gun to a friend of his to hold for him a, well, I don't, maybe you can have a black powder. No, he's a felon. I don't even know if he could, he bought the guns legally, but I don't know if he could own them legally. Two different things. but the, his friend was like, I don't wanna load a gun around my house.'cause they're different. They're a different type of gun.

Stephanie (2):

Well, and why do I need to hold the gun for you? Regardless what kind of gun it is.

Dani:

Look. I could see these good old boys up there being like, Hey, I'm gonna go outta town, you know, I'm a convicted felon and I shouldn't be having this gun on me. Mm-hmm. so can I just keep it at your house? I totally can see this. Okay. You know, that makes sense. Or I don't, I don't wanna leave it in my room at the, he probably stayed at that. Yeah, that lodge. I don't wanna leave it in my room. Everybody will know I'm gone. They'll probably ransack it like you don't know, so. Right. So, you know, could you just hold, I don't wanna be traveling with a gun. I don't need to be traveling with a gun. I mean, there's a lot of people that travel with guns, but I don't feel like it's necessary to travel with a and if

Stephanie (2):

you're a felon.

Dani:

Okay, that's fair. What friend did was, because it's a black powder gun and he's like, I don't know how these guns work, so I'm gonna go and unload it into my wood pile. I just, so it's not loaded. Put it in the house, set it and forget it.

Stephanie (2):

Easy gun safety kids. That's not how you do it, but okay. Yeah, it was better than nothing. Sure.

Dani:

I don't even know how you would unload a black powder. Like that's a whole nother thing. Yeah, I, and I didn't research it. but then the sheriff said, oh, I want you to go out in that wood pile and find me those bullets. And they're not, I don't even think they're bullets, they're balls. I'm not sure. I should have done more. My bad. I should have done some research. So the sheriff said, Hey friend, that wood pile that you discharged, all those bullets that were left in that gun, I need you to go dig'em outta that wood pile and bring'em to me. Fair. Is that the proper way to collect evidence though?

Stephanie (2):

No. You probably should get it yourself. Thank you. yeah, but sorry Sheriff Lan, like you didn't wanna make the drive. I was partying on

Dani:

you.

Stephanie (2):

And

Dani:

then this happened.

Stephanie (2):

Like we got the FBI involved, we got the dogs involved. You can't make a quick trip up to Idaho City. Go,

Dani:

he lived there. Yeah. Just go look, don't be asking the friend to be, bring you bullets anyways. So that's what the defense was saying, like, you went and you, he handed you over some bullets. He dug out of his anyway,

Stephanie (2):

didn't follow the proper chain of possession or whatever they call it. Like who can be touching what Yeah.

Dani:

Correct. And you can go at us and, and, correct us on that terminology.'cause I know there's a word for it. I just can't, there's a thing for it. I just Chain of custody.

Stephanie (2):

Yes. Nailed it. There we go. I knew it was a thing. We're getting it guys. We're trying best

Dani:

cheers. Uh oh. All right. You ready? Mm-hmm. Testifying in his own defense. Oh,

Stephanie (2):

and didn't I just mention like, if you were to not testify, that's, people are okay with that. Not making an opening statement. They're not so okay with it. So let's do two negatives. Boom. Let's go.

Dani:

Palmer denied killing the couple. When asked Point blank by Chastain, he said quote. No, I did not. No, I did not. Okay. Palmer admitted he took the couple for a ride to do his fire checks. Palmer was a volunteer firefighter. Hmm. But he said he later dropped them back off at the lodge and David and Kathy left. And he is like, they just took off, who knows? Took them for a little ride. Showed'em my, I had to do my fire checks. They disappeared into the dust. In closing arguments, Kane stated that the motive in the case was sexual assault. He said Palmer shot David in the head execution style and then chased down Kathy and shot her. Her remains were found about 200 yards from David. S Kathy's clothes had been found inside out, but still buttoned. Cain said this shows her clothes are forcibly removed.

Stephanie (2):

No, I think that that could point that direction.

Dani:

The jury deliberated for 14 hours over two days before they came back with a guilty verdict for two counts of first degree murder. Prosecutor Kain said he's going to seek the death penalty.

Stephanie (2):

I don't doubt it, especially in this time. Everybody's kidding everybody. Idaho was the Oprah of death penalty. I really, I would like to see the stats and also per capita of how many death penalties were given per capita during this time, before the Supreme Court was like. Oh, what have you guys been doing over here for a few

Dani:

decades?

Stephanie (2):

Can we talk about this? Oh, will you, can you log off real quick? We just need to have a chat.

Dani:

Go ahead and go ahead and lock your, like, will you quiz sending us these fucking cases to review? Get your shit together, Idaho, in 1993, so we're three years after this. Horrible mm-hmm. Murder. These Frank, they were kids. The sentencing hearing is held in October. I don't know what the holds the hold up yet. I don't know. prosecutor Kane said the death penalty is necessary due to aggravating circumstances. The aggravating circumstance Palmer had previously been convicted of murder.

Stephanie (2):

Get out of here. Is this the probation that he jumped where they would not release? Yeah, the information. Oh, well what the hell were you doing, Mr. Palmer?

Dani:

Yeah. And you know they can't mention it during trial. No, they can't. That's prejudice. So,

Stephanie (2):

so I see why they held it back, but,

Dani:

and that's why Sheriff Flanders was very, very interested. He was

Stephanie (2):

just like, everything will be hunky dory, bro. Just wanna have a quick chat.

Dani:

Few questions. No big deal. Wasn't a bad check. It wasn't selling a little dope. So I'm gonna take you back. Yes, I gotta

Stephanie (2):

hear this now.

Dani:

In 1977, Opal Almanza, 58 and Henry Mitchell 57 left the Spokane area. In May to go check on her friend's house in Spirit Lake, Idaho. and Spokane is located very close to the Idaho border. Mm-hmm. And we've done previous cases on this that went back and forth. so it's not very far. and Spokane is really a larger town compared to those towns that were up in northern Idaho at that time. Oh yeah. So that's, people go to Spokane, either grocery shopping, they're clothes shopping, school shopping. I bet you those kids are going every, you know,

Stephanie (2):

because what's near there? Is it Lewiston?

Dani:

Uh, uh,

Stephanie (2):

I might be thinking of the wrong map here. I get a little turned around.

Dani:

I think it's Lewison and Coeur d'Alene. Oh,

Stephanie (2):

maybe.

Dani:

I think it's kind of right in between there. But it's Panhandle, right? It's Panhandle for sure. Okay. Do you want me to Google it?

Stephanie (2):

Let's look. I just want it for my own.

Dani:

Because Idaho's a large state, ladies and gents, it is quite large. Let's put how far is Spokane from Let's do Spirit Lake'cause that's where they were going. 53 minutes. Let's look at a map. Alright, here we go. we have a gander. Yeah. So Spokane is near Coeur d'Alene. which I think, oh, this is a very good case with the, the Idaho murderers because Right. He was going to school there. It's like a 45 minute jaunt.

Stephanie (2):

Yes. So the Idaho four, if you guys are following that case, Coberg with, with Moscow. Yes. Why do I do that? Because it everyone, that's what we hear on the news all the time, is like Moscow. But it's Moscow. Here. Here it's Moscow. That they're in Russia. It's Moscow here. Moscow, Russia, Moscow here.

Dani:

Did I say that right again? Yeah. Did I fuck it up? No, you got it. So it's very close. even all the way to Spirit Lake where she was going, which is a little bit more north of Coeur d'Alene, it's still a, a 50 minute drive. So, um, not far.

Stephanie (2):

No. I drive that for work. So do you

Dani:

So let me tell you about Opal. Okay. Uh, she's of course from Spokane and she worked as an activity director for different healthcare centers. Oh, and she had three sons and a daughter.

Stephanie (2):

So four kids. Okay. Yeah.

Dani:

So Opal and Henry, we're gonna go check on Opal's friend's house up in Spirit. Lake Opal had just recently met Henry just a few days before. Henry was his, this is a meet cute. Oh, Henry was a salesman and while out on a sales call, he went to the wrong house whoopsie. And that's where he met Opal. That is a meet. Cute. And this is in 77. So legit. He went to the wrong house. There's no double checking by texting you, double No Google map. No. And you're definitely not getting the appointment reminder in your email. the two hit it off and they sent some time together getting to know each other. Opal told Henry about her friend's place and how she needed to go check on it, but her car wasn't running, so she asked Henry if he'd like to drive her to Spirit Lake and off they went. What a fun day trip. Like I just met you a couple of days ago

Stephanie (2):

and this is crazy.

Dani:

Let's go. I have to drive up to my friends, Kevin, and check it out. You wanna go with me? Grab some lunch. Like, I think it's such total

Stephanie (2):

me cute. Very cute. This is definitely, it could have been a rom-com. We, I, we can obviously see based on the charges. It wasn't, but it started out that way.

Dani:

In the early hours of the next morning, Henry went to the sheriff's office to report Opal missing.

Stephanie (2):

Oh my gosh. So that went south quickly. And where is Opal

Dani:

Opal's body was located 150 yards from the couple's campsite. She was partially dressed and her throat had been cut so deep. She was nearly decapitated.

Stephanie (2):

How awful. Imagine meeting a gal and being like, this is so fun. We're having a great time. And then you have to report her missing and this is what's found.

Dani:

Henry was a traveling salesman and his last trip back home, the wife said, mm-hmm. We're done. I'm done. So then he meets, I mean, these guys are the same age. He goes on a mist, he, he ends up at the wrong house and he is like, this is cool. Let's have some fun. Like

Stephanie (2):

serendipity.

Dani:

Yeah. So anyway, authorities questioned two men that were staying on the property. Edward D. Palmer, age 21, and Milton Tarter 35. They were camping on the same property as Opal and Henry. The men were arrested and charged with first degree murder on June 20th. Both men pled not guilty to first degree murder and are being held without bond In July, their public defender, Nick Lamana, filed a motion to allow Palmer and tartar so fucking ridiculous. He filed a motion for them to stay in the same cell at the Bonner County Jail.

Stephanie (2):

Um, when is that ever? You're usually not allowed to talk to any other defendants in a case, let alone live with them so you can plot and plan and scheme and get your story straight.

Dani:

District Judge Caldwell denied the motion. He's like,

Stephanie (2):

yeah, no, thank you, Caldwell, for being the only adult in the room.

Dani:

Attorney Lamana said he was going to file another motion to get the suspects out of solitary confinement. Bonner County Sheriff Mike Guthrie said his jail doesn't have special solitary confinement cells and that both men are being kept separate. Quote, because. We did not want them talking to each other before the trial.

Stephanie (2):

So you're not in the hole, you're just in a cell by yourself.

Dani:

Yeah. Primadonnas, that's a little different than solitary. Yes. Confinement. Yes it is. You're not gonna go chit chat it up with your buddy. No, you don't get to be roomies.

Stephanie (2):

They were roommates

Dani:

who was in the motorcycle gang that was like, I need to see my girlfriend now. Yes, Gibson. This is cruel and unusual. And then he went to the other jail and he's like, actually it wasn't bad there. I really, can I go back there? This one's way worse. judge Cogswell also issued a gag order for the parties involved. The trial for Palmer and Tartar. I don't know if it's tartar or tartar. Tina. Tartar. It's spelled like tartar. Tartar tartar, tartar sauce. the trial for Palmer and Tartar starts in early January, 1978. In opening statements, prosecutor Gary Finney stated that after Henry and Opal went to Spirit Lake to look at the house, Opal was caring for the couple, headed to Sandpoint to visit a friend of Opal's. Her friend Irene Coleman was a waitress at the Traveler's Lodge, like, why we're in town.

Stephanie (2):

Yeah, I got some friends here. Let's go travel, let's go have a drink, travel. And you know what?

Dani:

Maybe Al was like, look at feeling it. Like,

Stephanie (2):

no, let's go over here. Can my

Dani:

friend look at, look at this guy. Look who I brought. You know it. Very cutesy. Yeah. Al and Henry were having a few drinks when they met Palmer and Tarter. After a few hours of drinking together, they were having a good time. Yeah. The four of them went to the campsite of Palmer and Charter and Henry's car. The campsite was actually a 10 acre property that Palmer's parents owned. Mm. It was like, Hey come we got a

Stephanie (2):

really cool campsite.

Dani:

Yeah. Come check it out. And they probably were hitting it off. I've met strangers in a bar when I've been out of town. Mm-hmm. And we've chit chatted like get a few drinks.

Stephanie (2):

Yeah. Lemme show you my cabin. Or like, lemme show you over here. Yeah. There's a cool spot by the creek that's going fishing. Yeah.

Dani:

I've done it. The two defendants had hitchhike into town earlier that day. That's why they got a ride from Henry. I'm sure. It's all like, Hey, we're headed back. Oh, we could give you a ride.

Stephanie (2):

And especially you've been drinking for a few hours, you feel you're a little

Dani:

kinship. Yeah. Buddy buddies. but they had hitchhiked into town earlier that day to purchase a part for the broken down van, and then they headed to the travelers around noon, like, we're in town. Let's go get some drinks. So they've been drinking since noon. The group continued to drink at the campsite, and when the new part failed to fix the van, they headed back to town for a different part.

Stephanie (2):

My goodness.

Dani:

Can we just talk about the amount of drinking

Stephanie (2):

and going back and I'm sorry. I'd be like, I guess we're waiting until tomorrow for this part. Like mm-hmm. Determined. Well, you know how guys get,

Stephanie:

I could fix this van up real, if we just had the right part, I could have this thing running.

Stephanie (2):

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. That's what I'm picturing.

Dani:

But when they hit it back into town, they also stopped back at the travelers for a few more cocktails.

Stephanie (2):

You know what they're. the drinking and driving not good, but how many times have we been like, you know, it's an early night, Danny, the last drink and we're good and then we have like three or four more drinks just'cause we're chit-chatting it up and hitting it off. Like,

Dani:

didn't that happen last time we were, it was midnight. Yeah. and we told each other both. I'm like, I gotta get home Danny. It's too late. Well, this is the problem. Normally I'm the crying, whiny bitch that's ready to go to bed. I'm like nine o'clock, which is good for me. I'm gonna melt at nine o'clock. I happened to have the day off the next day.

Stephanie (2):

So there was no worries in the world Yeah. For

Dani:

me and no bad vibes coming off for me. Mm-hmm. Like, it is time to go. I gotta get my. You know, if I don't get my fucking eight hours of sleep, I'm going to shrivel up and die. I'm like, this is fun. And oh, I don't have to get up and go to work tomorrow. So, shit, sorry about your luck stuff. Let's go. We're going. And I'm

Stephanie (2):

like, Danny's out past 8:00 PM I have to stay because this is a what? A what a treat. What a rare treat.

Dani:

How were you feeling the next day?

Stephanie (2):

Not good.

Dani:

I was so hungover. I went

Stephanie (2):

into work late. Even Rick was like,

Dani:

I was

Stephanie (2):

texting, trying to wake me up and be like, honey, I think that, I think you have to get up now. And I was like, yeah, yeah,

Dani:

yeah.

Stephanie (2):

Anyway,

Dani:

no, I was not doing well the next day. This is, I know me. Yeah. If I'm drinking, if I am staying up after 10 o'clock, still drinking even to like, my ideal is nine. I wanna be in bed. Yes, in bed. But'cause I'm an old fucking lady. But midnight and I knew it. Yeah. I, and

Stephanie (2):

Danny saves my ass too, which is why I don't care when she's like, okay, it's my bedtime. I'm like, thank God, someone just, because now I know I'm gonna get to work on time the next day, and I listen. I usually do. But man, I, I was late to work the next day and

Dani:

it was nothing important that we, we were just,

Stephanie (2):

if you know me in real life, no you don't.

Dani:

I was sick that morning. Damnit. Kinda. I was sick of something. Alcohol point. No, it wasn't that bad. No, no, no. Seriously. Like we just, it was just

Stephanie (2):

a good night. We were having a fun time.

Dani:

Conversation was flowing good. Mm-hmm. Apparently. And for, we created a podcast because of it. So, so these guys are like, yep, let's hit it up. Let's have another cocktail. But by this time. Friend Irene was off of her shift and she sat down with the group for a few hours and had She's ready

Stephanie (2):

to start her night.

Dani:

Yeah. She's like, oh fuck, I'm done. so she sat down for a few hours and had drinks. This is a long day of drinking. This is a full on day drinking episode here. Irene offered Opal a place to stay that night, so they didn't have to drive back to Spokane. Thank you. That was very sweet. And probably the wisest decision, you know, how you can get not always making good choices mm-hmm. Under the influence. So Opal refused the offer, stating that Henry was drunk and she didn't know him that well. I am just saying, I get that. Like I don't wanna hinder you with somebody, like, look at my shiny new guy. Mm-hmm. Is how it started. And then she's like, oh, he's getting pretty drunk. I don't wanna bother you with this. We don't know

Stephanie (2):

how he's gonna be. Right. No, I, I totally get it. And it's,

Dani:

but also way safer at a friend's house than with a strange man. Uh, that um, I shouldn't say strange man, but somebody recently that, you know. Yeah. Okay. Um, it's

Stephanie (2):

a tough line there. And honestly, hindsight is always 2020. Fuck. Yeah. If there was big, big, big red flags, I'm sure Irene would've insisted or done more and been like, I really don't want you to go. There was a little

Dani:

bit, let's really, there was a little bit of ready flag, but a

Stephanie (2):

little urging.

Dani:

but just'cause he, sometimes some people get drunk. They're way different. Mm-hmm. I mean, we're all different when we get drunk, but some people go a little. Yeah. And, but Henry shouldn't have been of their concern.

Stephanie (2):

Hmm. Okay.

Dani:

So the group ordered drinks to go and Oh yeah. Well, to go east, in styrofoam cups. And they left around 7:00 PM so we're talking at least seven hours of drinking. When they returned, Palmer offered Henry and Opal a tour of their 10 acre property. Go on a little drive. Well, they went back to the campsite. Maybe go on a little walk. Let me take you on a tour. I do it at the cabin.

Stephanie (2):

Yeah. But what I'm thinking is the drive. Mm-hmm. With the, our original couple. Mm-hmm. Take'em. Show I'm, do my fire route. Oh, Hmm. Oh, it seems a little, and I don't know the story guys, so I could be way off, but that's just where my mind goes. I didn't

Dani:

even think about that. I was like, yeah, that's a pretty normal thing to do. Like, let me, because you're a normal person. I'm like, there's a waterfall. If you go up to the top, yeah, you can see it. It's really cool. not bad of a hike, but you can see it. If you go down this way, you're gonna see this, you know? Yeah. Just like, most of the time, self guided tours, but sometimes I tag along, you know, just depends. And for normal people, it's a normal thing. But so they started out to go look at the property, but Henry decided he wanted to return back to the campsite. Henry, I. I'm thinking Henry is pretty fucked up. Henry's like, um, my

Stephanie (2):

legs don't work anymore. You want me to go hike? What? To do what? No. I am ready to be literally passed out right

Dani:

now. And Tarter stayed behind to work on his van. Oh. Henry laid down and fell asleep in his tent for a while. AKA passed. Yeah. The fuck out from day drinking. Everybody's experienced this.

Stephanie (2):

Yes.

Dani:

And you're like, oh, hit a little too hard, too early. Mean nap.

Stephanie:

I go bed now. I go to bed right now,

Dani:

and then I'm gonna wake up at like nine, eat and go back to bed. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I've never done that,

Stephanie (2):

ever.

Dani:

When Henry woke up, no one was around and he freaked out.

Stephanie (2):

I would be freaked out even if nothing bad happened because you're not in a familiar place. You're like, I don't know these people. Where's my car? Like

Dani:

how did I end up here? What did I do this to myself? Yeah. So Henry was out of there and he took off in his car. He was still drunk and his car was seen weaving on the road by an off-duty sheriff's deputy dude. He was in a bad shape. Yeah, I bet. The deputy called in for a patrol car. Henry was pulled over, but the officers didn't find him drunk enough to arrest him.

Stephanie (2):

They're like, yeah, everybody drinks and drives a little bit around here. Hey

Dani:

buddy. What they told him was, Hey, just sleep it off in your car for a few hours. Don't hear that anymore. And rightfully so. But because when you're drunk, you're not making good choices. You're not making good choices because you even got behind the will. Yeah. Let alone, oh, no, no, no. Just sleep it off. No, I'm like, uh, you can sleep it off. I'm taking your keys. You hitchhiked to the sheriff's office in the morning and we'll have a little chit chat. Yeah. We'll chit chat. Little chitchat. Can you pick you up? Yeah. We're not driving you anywhere. Do you have a cell? Oh wait, it's like he said me. Oh yeah. No, he's definitely, uh, hitchhiking. You can't get an Uber. Nope.

Stephanie (2):

No. Ubers here.

Dani:

So Henry woke up around 3:00 AM and he started to drive back to Spokane. He looked over and he saw Opal's purse sitting on the front seat. I'm not saying probably completely sober by 3:00 AM. Probably has a little bit of this spins and he is like, oh shit, I brought a woman with me here and I don't have her. So this changed his mind. And he headed back to Bonner County and went straight to the sheriff's office where he reported Opal missing, which A should have B kudos'cause he probably could have been arrested for DUI. Mm-hmm. He was not sober enough to be driving.

Stephanie (2):

Yeah. well, and I know the bar is in hell of someone being like, well sure she's fine. And I mean, they are kind of strangers, barely, not strangers, right at this point. So I could see someone being like, eh. Case. Raw. Raw. Like,

Dani:

sorry about your luck, you know, just bye. No, but he did turn around so, uh, that was good. Yeah. And he went back and he reported her missing and search and rescue.'cause this is literally in the middle of the night. So search and rescue was notified about a missing person at 7:00 AM which I'm like, if you are call, I mean search and rescue. Yes. But what are you gonna do at 4:00 AM versus seven? You're not seeing shit. Yeah. They do

Stephanie (2):

not have temperature cameras and drones and No, they're not

Dani:

doing anything. And if you think about the story, is she a missing person?'cause she wasn't in your tent. You drunkard. Yeah. Did she just find another bow? Right. Did she maybe. She's sleeping under the start. Yeah. Like did you go look like, so

Stephanie (2):

like you don't know she's actually missing. Right.

Dani:

So I say kudos for the sheriff's department. I'm being proactive and getting people out there. Even though instead of saying you guys were partying and you lost each other in the party. Yeah. And she'll show up. Maybe she's at her friend Irene's house. Yeah. Who knows, right?'cause I didn't hear, and in my research I didn't hear anything like he said, you know, like, oh it was really weird with these dudes, or I don't trust these. Like, I didn't hear any of that in any testimony or anything. So great for the sheriff's office getting on it. Get getting out there. So the search and rescue was notified at 7:00 AM and they began their search around nine in that morning. They have to gather people. Yeah, people have to get outta bed, get resources. This, you know, this is a voluntary search party.

Stephanie (2):

Yes. And again, people don't have cell phones, right? So if someone's out, they're literally ringing

Dani:

the these guys at seven o'clock in the morning being like, all right, we got one for you. So by the time they gathered everybody, it was around nine o'clock in the morning. I wanna remind you, this is 10 acres.

Stephanie (2):

Yes.

Dani:

Search and rescue did not find opal until one in the afternoon. They found her body partially clothed and nearly decapitated. Items located next to her body included a styrofoam cup. The party cup,

Stephanie (2):

their Togo cup

Dani:

to-go is loose Change. Palmer's wallet. Mm. And Opal's? Dead dog.

Stephanie (2):

The dog.

Dani:

The dog. I didn't really, oh man. I didn't know she had her dog with her either. But I'm thinking back in the day, she, if it was a good little dog, she probably could've ticketed into the bar with her.

Stephanie (2):

Oh, I bet. Took

Dani:

at it.

Stephanie (2):

They,

Dani:

that is an official word they can take us. The dog is to the ticket, the saloon, in Valley County, there was a bar that you could take your dogs in and I loved it. It was my favorite. And some of the dogs would sit actually on a bar stool. Oh my gosh. How cute. Yeah. And just sit there. Anyways, I like it. I know it's

Stephanie (2):

more popular now. Like there's lots of little breweries that do it. No,

Dani:

this just like a regular old bar. Yeah. Regular old bar.

Stephanie (2):

Bar where you can have dogs. Yeah. That wasn't a, that wasn't something every bar was doing back in these days.

Dani:

No. Now it's trendy and cool, but back in the day

Stephanie (2):

it was like we're a food service establishment.

Dani:

No,

Stephanie (2):

I'm surprised about the to go.'cause I know in some states you can still do it. Like Louisiana.

Dani:

Let me just tell you though, Irene worked there.

Stephanie (2):

Right, right, right.

Dani:

And also this is 78. and they're, I mean, in these small towns, I think we've even done a, a story like you could buy six packs or a 12 pack when you left the bar'cause there's nothing else opened. Mm-hmm. So they would like literally sell you booze, before you left. It couldn't be open, but they would and technically not supposed to do it, I don't think. Right. No. I've even

Stephanie (2):

been to small towns now that do that. Yeah. And it's, it's not like your trendy bar prices, but it's certainly more than convenience store. But they're like, sure, if you want to go waddle back to your. Airbnb or your, you know, there's like 10 little cabins around. Sure. You can have this six pack for however ungodly amount

Dani:

because there's literally nothing open. Mm-hmm. Uh, I mean, in Cascade, after 10 o'clock, the only place everything's closed. The only place you were getting even a bag of chips was at the laundromat. Like that was it. And the bar was open. Like, no, there's no, you're not gonna go grab a hot dog or a microwave burrito, no

Stephanie (2):

McDonald's, no, no DoorDash, nothing. No, you're not

Dani:

getting anything. So a lot of, and you know, you, it's money for them. Yeah. Yep. The price. So, and I also think Irene worked there. When you have it in, you have it in, yeah. So

Stephanie (2):

she's, she's like, let me just go get you some to-go cut. Yeah.

Dani:

Let me just,

Stephanie (2):

yeah. Oh my goodness.

Dani:

defense attorney Lamana stated, there will be a lot of scientific evidence. I'm just laughing because of the year. And he trusted that after all the evidence is presented, the jury would reach a fair judgment. Okay, Lamana, what do you got? Super scientific Judge Cogswell sequestered the jury to a local motel, and on day six of the trial, Lamana asked for a mistrial.

Stephanie (2):

Oh, just like

Dani:

that. Did somebody mess up? The motion was made on the grounds that the evidence and testimony made earlier about the discovery of marriage. Ana was inflammatory and prejudicial,

Stephanie (2):

not in this day and age. It was not. It. It was like, you smoke pot, you're a, you're a piece of shit.

Dani:

Right? Because during the search for Opal, authorities noticed a small baggie that appeared to have about an ounce of pot in Palmer's tent,

Stephanie (2):

an ounce. It is a significant amount of pot. We're not talking a little teensy tinsy bag,

Dani:

but it just still, it said appeared. Yeah. the judge denied the motion. He was like, no, I'm not gonna dismiss this over. Shut up.

Stephanie (2):

Yeah. By, yeah. Marijuana's a bad thing. Back then it was super bad. So it's like, yeah, you had a ounce of marijuana. You degenerate, like no one is going to really be coming to your aid about mar it's,

Dani:

you have anxiety. I think it's, oh, too bad. I

Stephanie (2):

think it's still federally a schedule one drug. Is it not? Yeah, it is. It, it's on the same level as heroin. It's super still illegal in Idaho Federal.

Dani:

You cannot have it in this state,

Stephanie (2):

so, and I don't agree with that, but especially back then, they're like, no, all drugs equal are the same bad. You could do heroin, you could do pot. It's the same thing. You're same. You're a druggie loser.

Dani:

But I do know that Oregon is enjoying all of the benefits from Idaho Idahoans.

Stephanie (2):

Oh, the, the tax money alone.

Dani:

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. That's why their

Stephanie (2):

roads are so nice. Their roads are immaculate. You can tell exactly when you cross the border because you're like, man, I feel like I'm just floating on air. And then it's like C Oh, we're in Idaho, aren't we? Yep. If you were taking a nap in the back,

Dani:

I should. No, you're not. I should have researched how many, what do they call'em? They're just marijuana stores. Just have three. Thank you. Well, they're marijuana stores. Dispensaries are in, in Ontario, Oregon, because Ontario, Oregon is literally 45 minutes from the valley.

Stephanie (2):

Yeah.

Dani:

Um, there's a lot of Idaho plates. Yep. If you drive by, you will see. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. There's one right by the Walmart over there. Mm-hmm. And

Stephanie (2):

it's

Dani:

full.

Stephanie (2):

There used to be only one in Huntington was the closest one. And that's a very tiny town. And that place was jam packed every day.

Dani:

I think that's when it was still maybe just medical. And then Oregon said, fuck it. Everything Ontario

Stephanie (2):

had to get like their city ordinance. Oh, is that what it was? In line. So even when it was just recreational Huntington, they got it in line because

Dani:

there's a fucking ton. It boomed. They were like,

Stephanie (2):

boom, 10 dispensaries.

Dani:

All, all Idahoans, welcome. Yeah, I'm just saying the state of Idaho is missing out on some tax dollars. Hello? For the children.

Stephanie (2):

Build the schools, build the roads. Can we get, I'm tired of my tire almost coming off if I had a pothole.

Dani:

Even these roads that they've just chip sealed, they're fucking horrible.

Stephanie (2):

They've already come off. Ugh. Okay, we're getting off topic, but man, it's our everyday lives.

Dani:

A pathologist testified that sperm cells were located on the Seminole fluid taken from Opal's body. During her autopsy, Henry testified that he had had a vasectomy when his seminal fluid was tested. It contained no sperm cells.

Stephanie (2):

Can I just So there is some science.

Dani:

There is some science.

Stephanie (2):

There's science. Especially if you had a vasectomy. Right. And sperm was found. That's a great, well, we know it wasn't Henry.

Dani:

I just feel so bad for Henry, you know, and you have to go knock out some sperm to prove that you're not a murderer. Well, and because the pressure,

Stephanie (2):

it looks like you could be, it's, you're working against it. Absolutely.

Dani:

You were drunk, you were like, this scenario was not looking good for Henry. No, it, it just wasn't just the general. I just met this lady and I woke up and, oh, she's missing And you're drunk as a skunk, I mean mm-hmm. No, yeah, it looked bad. I'm panicking and being weird, like leaving and leaving her there. Yeah. It was weird. So, but can you imagine how like, I bet

Stephanie (2):

he thought that vasectomy was the best decision of his life at that point. I

Dani:

know. He was like, thank fucking God. But the pressure to do that. Mm-hmm. No. Not fun. No. human blood was located on Palmer's clothes, although they could not tell who it belonged to or how old it was

Stephanie (2):

because the science was not silencing science.

Dani:

Thank you. That was the exact thing I was gonna say. Palmer and Totter did not testify in their defense.

Stephanie (2):

See, that's okay.

Dani:

And after four hours of deliberation. The jury found Palmer guilty of second degree murder. He is facing 30 years to life. I'm not sure why this wasn't a, a death penalty case.

Stephanie (2):

Yeah. I don't, I don't know how it wouldn't be.

Dani:

tarter was found innocent.

Stephanie (2):

Well, I mean, he didn't leave his wallet at the scene, so that was a plus for him.

Dani:

Yeah. And I was testified that he had stayed, he was working. He wanted to get that van working.

Stephanie (2):

He's like, yeah, this, I know we're drunk, but this was our original mission. We got the part.

Dani:

Yeah. I've done drunk projects before. Let's go. And who to say

Stephanie (2):

if that's true or not, but

Dani:

I kind of, I I am kind of leaning. Yeah.

Stephanie (2):

Leaving your wallet at the scene of a crime is basically like providing your signature in Sharpie on the body. Mm-hmm. Put a couple fingerprints on there too.

Dani:

And nowadays with the technology, they would've had'em dead to right. Oh. Because they would've had DNA everywhere and Turner to been like, did you find my DNA on that fucking cup? Check all my clothes, right? Check all my clothes. I got some grease. I got some like, yeah. no. Maybe a littler jaw me, but I, I'm not being taken somebody up into the forest and murdering them. Mm-hmm. I was working on the fan, yo. And on February 21st, 1978, Palmer was sentenced to an indeterminate sentence of 75 years.

Stephanie (2):

So what the hell? Mm-hmm. I'm sorry. I had to, she was processing, I had a drink. I had to do a little subtraction in addition. And I'm gonna clear it up for you, please.

Dani:

After serving only 10 years in prison. Palmer was paroled in April of 1988.

Stephanie (2):

What was the reason?

Dani:

Oh, because Idaho law allows for parole as soon as five to 10 years for second degree murder. That's such a fucking, oh, no. Let me get you more mad. Are you ready? Yeah, sure. Okay. Lay it on me. He was initially placed on intensive supervision for four months. We're talking about the parole, right? Yeah. And then he was reassigned to maximum supervision. So there's, there's intensive, and then MAXIV maximum. Oh, that. So

Stephanie (2):

Inten Intensive is a top. Maximums Be next below,

Dani:

but by May of 1989. Palmer was dropped all the way down to monitor status bypassing the medium and minimum supervision levels.

Stephanie (2):

Was it laziness of the parole or was it his charm in some way? I can't imagine like this is a rape and murdered woman, regardless. That's someone's been guilty of, even if someone is appearing to be an upstanding member of society, I don't care if they are building homes for homeless children, I don't care. They murdered someone and possibly raped them too. So

Dani:

most likely. Yeah. And he killed her fucking dog.

Stephanie (2):

And the matter in which he murdered her was

Dani:

not kind.

Stephanie (2):

Absolutely disable. It wasn't

Dani:

like, oh. Like he panicked'cause she said no and he shot her. No, he cut her

Stephanie (2):

nearly decapitated, which is just ridiculous.

Dani:

That's overkill.

Stephanie (2):

And you're full of rage and, and you're fucking weird in the head to do that to, to any person to ever.

Dani:

Mm-hmm. Um, so let me tell you what monitor status is. It's gonna piss you off more. It is self-monitoring, self self steer

Stephanie (2):

parole board. I am doing great. I'm awesome. I'm building houses for homeless children. I'm great. I'm going to be out of the country for three to 10 weeks. Bye.

Dani:

I almost said something totally inappropriate.

Stephanie (2):

You know, I, I think I'm. I'm picking up what you're putting down, but Yeah.

Dani:

Palmer was required to fill out monthly reports dear, and mailed them to the state parole office. He was only visited once a year by a parole officer, and two years after his release he killed David and Kathy

Stephanie (2):

and they were just like, oh, he is been on parole and he is, he, he is been on parole and I, we haven't really checked in.

Dani:

I wanna know how he left Bonner County and was allowed. I do think this is part of the problem. That conviction was in Bonner County. And you know, if you move in out of county, don't ask me how I know this, but I know that if you change counties, you have to get it approved by the parole board. Who the fuck approved him to move six hours away? Two Boise County. I dunno. I know I've been in prison for 10 years, but I have this great job opportunity six hours away, Uhuh.

Stephanie (2):

Mm-hmm.

Dani:

No,

Stephanie (2):

you've only been out this long. We don't know what you're gonna do. Okay. There's, wow, this what an injustice.

Dani:

Yeah.

Stephanie (2):

And now we see the consequences.'cause these poor

Dani:

kids would still be alive if he had, if the parole board had held him accountable and not just let him willy-nilly move all over the state. And lemme just tell, this is the, just think about this. He got his parole violation for going back up to Spokane, Washington, which is literally 45 minutes from Bonner County, like the Bonner County Borders. Mm-hmm. Washington State. But they let him move all the way down here. We're a long state, like we are the entire length of Washington and Oregon.

Stephanie (2):

So he was up Bonner County and he moved to somewhere, Bonner County, like Panhandle we're talking like near Canada. And he moved all the way down to like where Boise is. If you guys know, locals will know. Yeah. But look up where Boise is. Look up where the border to Canada is. It's not right on the border, but

Dani:

they're like, yeah, go ahead and move six hours away. You're good. You murderer.

Stephanie (2):

And especially without technology like we have these days.

Dani:

There was no long chain. There was no chain

Stephanie (2):

to the police station where they're like, he's still on there.

Dani:

Got you. Good fucker. Um, yeah, that's a failure. Uh, so we're back to the sentencing hearing for the murder of David and Kathy. Yeah. So we're all the way back up to 1993. Prosecutor Kane is asking the judge for the death penalty. Defense attorney Chastain said life in prison would be a better option taking into the account that a death sentence would begin an endless cycle of appeals fair. It's true. And those appeals would be a significant financial burden to the small county. I'm telling you back in, back in the day, I wanna say there was like. 300 people in probably. It was so tiny. So they would have, what was that case we did up there where they had to go take a loan from the bank?

Stephanie (2):

Yes. The Eastern Idaho one. Where it was almost in like,

Dani:

no, there was the one where they had killed the guy and then they, dragged him. remember they were collecting firewood? It was

Stephanie (2):

right inside. Yes. Right inside the line. It was

Dani:

like a quarter mile inside the county line. And this little small county had the burden of trying that. And they went, I think he did get the death penalty. And then it was appeals, appeals, appeals and it just drained him. So, um, I think Chastain was kind of like appealing to the judge. You're right, because remember we just, we just said this should have been a death penalty case. Yeah. But I think that that is why.

Stephanie (2):

No, I agree. Because I bet'cause it took the Supreme Court forever to notice. Right. But who's gonna notice first when all of these death penalty cases are getting handed out? Like freaking candy. Yeah. The counties are gonna be like, Hey, hey. Yeah, I, I get it. We're on a kick here. Okay, Oprah, I get it. But we can't afford that. We've seen what's been happening to all these death penalties. We have 300 residents. How are our taxpayers gonna pay this?

Dani:

so yeah, he, the chastain's like this gonna be a significant financial burden to this small county and district. Judge Schroeder said quote, there is a lingering doubt over the murder conviction of Palmer. So he sentenced him to life in prison without the possibility of parole.

Stephanie (2):

You know what? In this circumstance, I think that was probably best for everyone,

Dani:

especially for these families.

Stephanie (2):

Yes.

Dani:

Um,

Stephanie (2):

keep him off the streets because that didn't happen before.

Dani:

It did not. And we don't wanna see his fucking face.

Stephanie (2):

Ever Self-monitoring. Ugh. Writing out your own report. I mean, listen, imagine doing your own review at work Exceeds and all exceeds and all like I'm a fucking rock star. Yeah. If, and especially if no one's the wiser, no one's stopping you. You could be CEO in months.

Dani:

I'm a self-proclaimed. CEO. Yeah.

Stephanie (2):

My goodness.

Dani:

Currently in 2025, Edward Palmer is 69 years old and he resigns at the Idaho State Correctional Center. He is serving two life germs.

Stephanie (2):

Like to hear his story, like to hear if he was buddies with Creech or if they had a, a beef.'cause he's been in there with reets then, right?

Dani:

Oh, for sure.

Stephanie (2):

Long time.

Dani:

Maybe they're best buddies and pals, they're about the same age, right? These guys are living in a box. Yeah,

Stephanie (2):

but they the real solitary, I bet now he knows what solitary is. Yeah. Compared to what he was complaining about when he couldn't be there with his co-defendant.

Dani:

You mean I can't get my story straight.

Stephanie (2):

We've got planning to do

Dani:

some, some twists and turns and, some failure definitely on, the parole board. 10 years for a brutal murder. That's a brutal murder. it wasn't, you didn't accidentally hit her with a car.

Stephanie (2):

Yeah.

Dani:

Uh, you weren't. Yeah, no. You took her up there and you

Stephanie (2):

found the situation and then he kind of made the situation on the second one.

Dani:

Yeah. He's like, Hey, yeah,

Stephanie (2):

I've been here before. It's so very similar in the partying together, drinking together, having fun.

Dani:

And I think that, that David and Kathy were excited to go up. I mean, I've met strangers like, come look at this. I'm like, that is so cool. He's like, yeah, you can come up here. And this is where we look out because you know those fire lookouts?

Stephanie:

Oh yeah. They're

Dani:

up on a point.

Stephanie:

Amazing.

Dani:

And amazing views and you know those kids, that would be awesome. You're gonna, he's probably like, I have to go do this. Mm-hmm. You wanna come with me and then we'll finish up business. I have to go check this right now. Like it's my time. I'm a volunteer firefighter. Like I have to go do this. I can totally see that happening. And these guys, he's like, you guys could,

Stephanie (2):

there's no other way to find the trails back then.

Dani:

Right? And he is like, you wanna come with me? Or you can wait here.

Stephanie (2):

No, let's go on a little adventure. I could totally picture going and doing that.

Dani:

And then they got a sicko head

Stephanie (2):

that's like, oh, perfect. I can't believe how similar the two stories are. Yeah. So anyway, fuck you Palmer. Have a nice life instead of death.

Dani:

Did save some heartache, but yeah. What a miserable experience.

Stephanie (2):

Yeah. Well, thank you Danny, for a wonderfully researched case. This was a twist and a turn for sure. I. again, follow us on TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, wherever you like. we love making little funny videos for you, but, any closing thoughts, Danny,

Dani:

share with your word of mouth is the best way. Oh, yes.

Stephanie (2):

Yeah. Best

Dani:

way to get, our podcast out there. We're, we're over 30 now. We've been plugging away. So, uh, till then,

Stephanie (2):

ten four rubber ducky.

Dani:

Fuck yeah.

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