The Lethal Library

39. The Bunny Bash: A Lethal Legacy in Eastern Idaho

• The Lethal Library • Episode 39

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In this episode of the Lethal Library, hosts Dani and Stephanie delve into the wild history of Idaho's infamous 'Bunny Bash' of 1981. This isn't your typical true crime tale - think less murder mystery, more mass rabbit eradication. As Eastern Idaho farmers faced a literal invasion of crop-devouring jackrabbits, they resorted to brutal measures to protect their livelihood, leading to the clubbing of over 100,000 rabbits. The episode touches on the ecological impact, public outcry from animal rights activists, and the controversial methods used. Tune in to hear about farmers on horseback, the aftermath of the jackrabbit invasion, and the surprising disappearance of these relentless rodents by the following year.

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Dani:

I think we're look cute. Matchy matchy today. Yeah. Not even planned. Well, kind of planned once I saw you.'cause Well, I pulled this shirt out last night and I haven't wore this in a fucking year. Mm-hmm. So. Eva? Eva, um, definitely digging the matchy. Matchy, yes. Twinning. Absolutely. It was December, 1981 and in eastern Idaho, more than 600 farmers, ranchers, and their families. Came to kill jackrabbits to locals. It was survival to the outside world. It looked like a massacre. Animal rights activists called it Barbaric. The National Press called it quote the Bunny Bash. Wow. Sources used for today's episode are articles from the Idaho Statesmen, the Times News, and South Idaho Press. Welcome back to the Lethal Library. I'm Stephanie. And I'm Danny. And we are a True crime podcast focusing on cases in the Pacific Northwest, specifically Idaho. and clearly today we are hearing a story about the quote unquote bunny bash. not a bash like a party is what I'm feeling. No, not a party. Different kind of bash. So, uh, give you a little trigger warning off the get go. I found, in my research difficult to read some of these things, and also to, to write them. so just a little trigger warning about there's some animal. Never good. It's never good when it comes, it's not good. so there's gonna be some things that could maybe trigger you, but I do feel it's important to speak the whole truth about what was happening. In December, 1981, Jefferson County Farmers continued their war against crop eating jackrabbits on a frigid Saturday, destroying at least 15,000 in a massive three hour roundup. In only three hours, they bumped those numbers up like that's incredible numbers. About 600 ranchers, family members and friends. Armed with an assortment of bludgeons, ranging from ax handles to golf clubs and billiard cues. Converged on the 5,000 acre farm of Jefferson County Rancher, Joe Hartwell. Supported by 15 horsemen, a dozen motorcycles, and several pickup truck drivers. Participants formed a V-shaped line around the perimeter of Har Well's property, and marched across two miles of open country flushing countless jackrabbits and driving them towards a large enclosed pen. I already am just amazed by the sheer numbers, 15,000. I can't even, if you put 15,000 pennies in front of me, I can't even imagine what that would look like and rabbit I feel like I could picture 10, I could see what that looks like, maybe even 50. Right. This is absolutely wild. And just that they were on motorcycles and horses. what is that game? Where they're on horses and you play it. Lacrosse? No, it's not polo. It's a polo. Polo, yes. Thank you. I'm like, you're so fucking, oh, I just missed my polo match last week. Shucks. My horse was not feeling well. so I'm just looking it up. Um,

Stephanie:

what are you looking up? How big Jack rabbits are? Yeah. Show me.

Dani:

They look like a tiny coyote to me. So just to get an idea, you know, we're talking about like, how do you even picture that? In Idaho, whitetailed jackrabbits are 22 to 26 inches long and weigh seven to 13 pounds, and then there's blacktail jackrabbits that are 20 to 24 inches long and weigh four to eight pounds. They're big. Yeah, I mean there's dogs smaller. Yeah. Harry, how much does Harry weigh? 16 pounds. So Damn. Um, yeah, but he doesn't have these big, large ears. I mean, their ears are really, really long. I just think that they probably look at that. I'm, I'm showing stuff a picture That is so cute. I'm sorry. Oh God. With these big ears like, oh God, here we go. With that being said. Several thousand rabbits penetrated the line of club wielding farmers and turned away from the pen to scamper back through the snow. Covered sagebrush desert, but hundreds were clubbed to death as they tried to escape. One rancher estimated that up to 5,000 rabbits got away. Once the rabbits were about a hundred yards from the pen, drivers lifted a makeshift chicken wire fence to funnel them inside and prevent more from escaping. Many of the animals were clubbed to death as the barrier forced them for in some spots. Rabbit carcasses lay so deep it was difficult to keep footing. Oh, So it sounds like. There was a lot of planning that went into this, and strategically, as they say, there were 600 people out there. Everyone's ready to go. How can you get, you can't get 600 people together for anything. You're like, Hey, charity event, five people show up, whatever, six. No. When you start hearing some numbers, you're gonna see, and this is gonna sit. You're gonna see the sense of community. I know this is horrible. It just, it doesn't sound right coming outta my mouth, but there you're gonna hear more about, well, having that many rabbits on a whatever, two square miles. But it's a 5,000 acre farm, right? Is that what I said? Yeah. 5,000 acre farm. That's just. Which you can't, I can't even comprehend 5,000 acres. Looks like either. These are large numbers, but it's also, in southeast Idaho, where it's, it's desert unless you have a canal. Yeah. So we are not the, flowing hills of the Palouse area in northern Idaho. Mm-hmm. This is, it's it's desert. It's high desert, sagebrush. And that's where the jack rabbits live and that's where they live. And they reproduce. Like what rabbits? Huh? How many times have you, yeah. You've heard that saying every, it's a saying for a reason. Many rabbits thrashed on the snowy ground after being struck. Some uttering high pitched screams. Oh no. Silence of the lambs. A teenager put one out of its misery with a karate chop to the back of its head. Okay, we're being very creative. Karate chopping another youngster picked up a struggling rabbit by its ears while a companion punched it with a clenched fist. I'm not loving that at all. I am not either. Well, and just because like. It's inhuman. The indications of like actually beating an animal physically with your hands versus if you have to shoot an animal to put it down or something. There, there is a difference there, and I don't love it. Let's just remind everybody of the times it doesn't make an excuse, but it is an 81. Right? And these are farmers. Sure. Um, and so we're gonna talk about. Yeah. Other ways coming along in this story. but do you know the cost of 15,000 bullets? You're, you do have a point there. Yeah. So just, I'm not justifying, I am just raising, like, we've got a budget. Yeah. I, I'm just, I'm not justifying this behavior at all. the numbers I, I truly cannot picture. Mm-hmm. And listen, if there was 15,000 rabbits, I think it would be less cute to me and be a little scary. Mm-hmm. Those eyes, 30,000 eyes looking at you, that is, do you mathed? Mm-hmm. Women in stem? Yes. to keep more rabbits from slipping out of the enclosed area. Pickup trucks took people back to the perimeter of Hartwell property where they whistled, jeered, shouted at the fleeing animals to scare them back towards the pen. They were, they were rustling them up outta that stage. Uh, rustling. Yeah. One man had three large cans, tin cans tied together and draped over his shoulders, and he would shake'em and bang'em up. Just scaring the shit out of him. Yeah. Just to get him to move. The participants called the Day Arousing Success compared to the previous Saturday's Roundup 10 miles south at Mudd Lake when about 2000 rabbits were killed. So this has been a thing, but now it's a big thing. Yeah. Arvin Twitchel, a chairman of the Mud Lake Rabbit Committee. They have a full committee for it. It's a big deal. Said that the Mount View Roundup was better organized and participants were less bothered by reporters, photographers, and television crews. Many that had crowded the event the previous week had kept the new location secret from reporters. But the side of the quote, rodent Drive, as organizers called it was common knowledge around Mud Lake. And this Mudd Lake is a small agricultural community of 240, and journalists were among the earliest arrivals at the Heartwell farm. mud Lake is about 10 miles from Rexburg. Okay? Okay. Hi, that's Desert. Desert. Desert. If I very desert, and for those that might not know Rexburg, if you followed the Lori Vallow trial, that's where Chad debell lived. Very eastern Idaho. small town. Small town, yeah. and you can all see the, and if. If you are in, did your crime and have, have looked at some of like the aerial photos of like the David, the day's house property and everything. It's like that. Yeah. But that's farmed. Mm-hmm. Prop like truly farmed property where they've already planted grass and all of that. A lot of these ranchers out there are running cattle. In the sagebrush. Right. And so it's not all green grass, it's literally dusty dirt with some sagebrush, but they have, and the cows will munch. There might be some grass here or there, but they're feeding their yeah. Cows as well. And they do have. Fields, but that's not where everything's at on a ranch. Mm-hmm. They might have, you know, out of 5,000 acres, he might have 3000 planted in alfalfa, which is just such a huge number. and then the other 2000 is just dry land that he rotates as his cows on. Sure. So, you know, it's, it's a lot going on, but it's not, it's not all greenfields out there. The elder Twitchell said that he had received hundreds of calls and letters from outraged animal lovers who insisted the rabbits could be killed more humanely, some letters, and one call had even threatened his life, which I don't get. Like if killing is bad, why are we threatening to kill? Doesn't make sense. Not matching there. He blamed much of the backlash. On the sensationalized press reports, Twitchell said 8,000 of the rabbits would be shipped to a mink farm in Iowa to be used for food. Twitchell sum. Bart said a mink farmer would pay 15 cents per carcass. So I will, I feel like it's not a total waste. I'm not digging how this is happening. But they're, they're trying to u mm-hmm. Utilize the, and they're not profiting like very much. No, no. And I don't even think that it was for, I don't think it was for profit. Yeah. There, he's just like, Hey, there's somebody that'll buy this. The, you wanna talk about brutality? Let's talk about mink, mink farms. But anyways, right. They're gonna feed these, these dead carcasses to the mink farmers. I don't think I even know what a mink is. Danny, I'm, that's far, so far outside of my tax. I don't own a mink. I don't either. Show me a mink. Okay, we gotta look at it. And they're, they eat meat. Mm-hmm. They're like dying for a bunny car. There was,

Stephanie:

um,

Dani:

are they like a badger, a ferret? Uh, I literally have never looked this up in my life. Yeah. They're like an almost ter looking. They're cuter. They're very cute. Like a, a bigger ferret. Oh my gosh, that one's very cute. Oh, but they're very shiny. See how pretty their fer is? Yeah. Yeah, they're very purdy. Why is there so many wet ones? Like we're going to, they, they clearly love bun. Oh, that looks like a stuffed animal. That one's, that looks like a taxidermy. It probably is. Hence why They're really fucking cute. They're tiny ears. Oh yeah. I would say they love bunnies. They love to eat the bunnies. They are meat eaters. Let me just Google that. Oh, they're Garmins. Minks are opportunistic carnivores that eat a wide variety of animals, including fish, rodents, amphibians. They're like, I don't, they don't discriminate birds, their eggs, insects, crawfish. They love a nice egg here and there. No, it says their diet shifts with the seasons with more emphasis on aquatic prey in the summer and more mammals in the winter. Minks are adept hunters both on land and in water, often diving under underwater to catch their mills. So they look real cute, but they're ready to. Take any animal out. Yeah. To eat it. It's, it kind of reminds me like of what a coyote would be. An opportunist. Sure. Like whatever you can get. What? Let's go. Yeah. I'm not above a bird. Yeah. If I can catch a bird, gimme your eggs, bitch. Some fresh eggs. Let's go breakfast bitch. So, so they were going to utilize the dead. Mm-hmm. Rabbits. Bart Twitchell also said that 200 to 300 live rabbits would be shipped out of state to train greyhound racing dogs, which is another terrible, and I mean, so it's like, I mean, at least they're doing something instead of just rotting. But then we're supporting these other not great industries. what else can we support for? Let's remember the Times. Yeah. 81, right? Okay. Farmer said, so what's the deal, right? Yeah. Why? Why are we, what's happening? Why are we rounding up 15,000 rabbits? Farmer said Jack Rabbits had costs an estimated 5 million in crop damage that year in southeastern Idaho. Really? Hartwell. had been a farmer since 1918. Golly. Wow. said that over the prior three months, the rabbits had destroyed hundreds of acres of grassland and tons of hay. He used to feed his cattle. He said even when the rabbits didn't eat the hay, their waste made it unpalatable for the cattle shit. Literally. Yeah. So I think this is kind of giving you the idea of what's going on here and, and the why behind. They're not just like, Hey, it's just for fun. Yeah, let's round up these rabbits and just kill'em. But still opinions, spectators and some participants had come from Portland, salt Lake and Denver, a Portland commercial photographer, Tom Ethan was there. For freelance photos and stories. So this is, this is what you're gonna get here. The gap of people while Roger Libby of Mountain Home came to help. He was like, yeah, that's kind of bringing a 22 caliber rifle, a 38 caliber handgun, and a thousand rounds of ammunition. Oh, he, he was like, this is a, a worthy investment for me. Quote, I just came down for the hell of it. Libby said, I didn't really think there'd be that many rabbits here. And he's like, I should have got more ammunition. A thousand thousand rounds. Rounds. I thought I was overdoing it, not enough. Kay Gillespie, a Weber State University sociology professor, said he came to study the people doing the killing, surveying dozens of families, bundled against the freezing temperatures and snow showers. This is in December, he said, not fun. This is. Kind of a social event. There's a sense of community and social organization here, but I don't get the feeling that they're enjoying this interesting commentary. As Eastern Idaho Farmers stage, their second rabbit drive near Mud Lake conservationists warned the slaughter could trigger a boycott of Idaho products. quote, the conservationist movement across the nation is quite appalled by what has happened, said Michael Bailey of Portland, a member of the 200,000 member Fund for animals, quote, by our communications with the governor's office and other state officials. We basically feel that we have been lied to. We feel very drastic. Steps may need to be taken against the state of Idaho and the state government, including a targeted boycott of products. So we're getting, we're getting our animal lovers out here, and this is where you're gonna see, yeah, some clashing going on. Mm-hmm. Which I'm just also amazed. One at the amount of people they were able to get here from multiple states, because this is not social media. Mm-hmm. and that makes it so much easier to organize and you will it's so easy. I feel like Bob's calling John and John is calling Frank and Frank is calling Henry or is there some Henry chain letter that's going around where it's like, but I mean these are happening week after week, like short order. Yeah, and it is, it is being, there is a media there. Mm-hmm. So it's in the press. Yeah. And that's, that is the media is the only media. It was on the nightly news, like nobody was making tiktoks or Bunny Bash at the twitches tonight at 5:00 PM Yeah. So, wow. Idaho Governor John Evans and Attorney General Leroy had said that they lacked legal authority to intervene and could only try to see that the rabbits were killed. Humanely Bailey, part of the three Member Fund for Animals team that's coming over here and watching everything. Yeah. Traveled to witness the drive and he said, quote, contrary to reports, the situation was the same as it was last weekend. They were carrying big sticks, trying to run down the rabbits and beat them up. I was very, very shocked at what had occurred by the time that they ran those rabbits down. They're near death anyway, he said they had flown over the site early Saturday and decided. Not to try to drive the rabbits away for the fear of spooking horses being ridden by some of the participants. Right? Sure. Thank God somebody had a little rational thought. Mm-hmm. but they, they did fly farther out over the desert and they spotted a herd of 500 Jack jackrabbits, and they drove those deeper into the sagebrush. I didn't even, I mean, I, I know we all know about. Bunnies repopulating, but just thinking of herds of 500 or a thousand, that's wild to me. I did, I had no clue. Just to give you an idea of, of the reproduction of these rabbits, they typically have. A prolonged breeding season from late winter through summer and can produce several litters a year. The gestation period lasts about 42 days. So you're talking six weeks instantly. Yeah. Resulting in one to six per litter. The exact number of litters and the length of the breeding season can be dependent on specific, yeah. The climate, everything species and their location. they typically female jack rabbits, typically have two to four letters, but sometimes up to five or seven, depending on the client. I'm probably gonna say we're two to four with the area, right? With it being a four season area because they start in late winter. yeah, and they said that, that, the females can become pregnant again very quickly. Yeah. Sounds like it. Mm-hmm. And so think having six litters or even four litters times 6 24 from one female Yeah. In, in just a winter. Yeah. Uh, fun fact, Litters typically consist of three to six babies, also known as ettes. What do, why do they always have to make up some of the weirdest names for the children of different animals? Sometimes it's like, where the fuck do you get that labettes? Let me just tell you what that reminds me of. majorettes, what are they, what, what is that? Nothing pisses off an old farmer from personal experience. a rancher pronouncing the name of an animal wrong. So I had piggies, I had pigs and I called them pink pigs. Yeah, they were piggies, they were pigs to me. To a farmer. They are hogs

Stephanie:

and oh my God, I don't you ever call a hog? Hog a pig? I got some

Dani:

py rolls doing that. don't they have ones like a sow? Is that a pig? Do you want me to get the, the rundown? I do. I need to know this. Okay, so you have, lemme see if I can remember. Hot minute. Okay, so a boar. Is a male pig with his junk, les with his junk. A, there's a boar, there's a sow. I got one right. I got Sal. I'm very proud of myself. Guilt, guilt. Yeah, there's a guilt. Okay, why are we, are we bringing guilt into this? Who di? Who designed that is God? And then there's a shame and then there's a trauma. why are we what?

Stephanie:

Hang on.

Dani:

I do like murder of crows, though. That's very cool. And seems relevant, but a guilt. So you've heard of a boar. Yeah, so it's got all of his parts. He is the big daddy. He, him? Mm-hmm. All the way. All the way. Then you have a sow. And a sow is a female pig who's had a litter, a piglets. She's proven herself by having a litter. The baby boys.'cause you always cut. If you're not keeping them for a boar and you're raising them for meat, you are, they're getting nutted. Mm-hmm. It's my silence of the lambs someday. I'll tell you the story. It is horrible. I dunno if I wanna hear it. Uh, those are called barrows. Barrows. Yeah. So male pigs without their junk are called barrows and a female that has not had a litter is called Agel, GILT. I get that the spelling's different, but it sounds the same. Why are we shaming this poor young woman? Well, we will talk about the cow species another time. There's all kinds of names for that too. Oh, fuck. Why see? My knowledge is deep and wide. Thank you. All right. I just wish that there was simpler, and I don't wanna be called a guilt that seems rude and impolite. I just think the SOW would be a better guilt. Right. Thank you. From my experience, let's just not, I mean, we grew up not shame women. I grew up where we were shamed. You know, God forbid if you wanted to have sex, oh, she's just a young little guilt. Right? You know, look at that little guilt over there. Are you feeling the guilt? Guilt? When I was growing up, if you had sex once, you were a slut. It should be called a guilt. Thank you. But you know what? Do it to it. Leave the pigs alone. I can see someone being like, piggies. How dare you? How very dare you? I loved pigs. They're my favorite. I have them all over my house. Mm-hmm. She does. Thank you. Fun fact. And I'm not talking about only little figurines. Has life, life-sized. I have a full sized, so absolutely. Life sized on the plant shelf in the living room. I, I didn't, I don't know how the fuck you got it up there. It was a struggle, but it's at the worth, peak of the ceiling. That's the only place it would fit. It's worth it. Yeah. Anyway. Makes an impression for sure. Thank you. Danny's got a special place in her heart for the PEs. They're like, they're like dogs. Mm-hmm. Whole nother story. Okay. so the Mud Lake Farmers Rabbit Committee said it had killed at least 30,000 jack rabbits, including an estimated 12,000 in that day's drive. The prior Saturday, about 2000 had been clubbed to death by God damn, by a thousand Jefferson County, by a thousand Jefferson County residents who heard of the, they were down, who heard of the animals, and two. A funnel shaped trap and holding pin. I want you to think about what$5 million looks like now, and I want you to think about what$5 million look like nearly, you know, 45 years ago. Yeah, no, that was big money. Mm-hmm. A and. I feel, and I could be wrong, but I feel like farmers back in the eighties are a lot different than these conglomerate farmers that we have now. Sure. And it was, it was feast or famine, literally for these guys. And they're working 365 days a year. They're not, they're not pulling in millions of dollars. Mm-hmm. They're, they're not, I mean, they're probably making. Decent money with hard work, but how many is that all six of your kids, right? Doing all the work and then you're splitting all that money plus your grandchildren plus, I mean, that's how it works, right? Mm-hmm. Right? Sure. Arvin Twitchell said two more drives would likely be conducted in the next two weeks. Damn, they're getting it done. Bailey accused Idaho officials of engineering. A quote, snow job to make con conservation groups believe the second drive would be different. Quote, this bunny bash has given a complete blight to the state of Idaho. He said, instead of thinking about potatoes, they're going to think about dead bunnies across the world when they think of Idaho, he predicted that if another drive was held the Saturday after Christmas. Hundreds from across the nation would come to try to stop it saying people in many parts of the United States and the world possessed quote, at least a reasonable amount of compassion towards humanity toward the animal of which there is none out here. Hmm, okay. He was very passionate. He was, yeah. In January of 1982. The Fund for Animals proposed another alternative. A rabbit ranch representative Michael Bailey said they would contribute money to fence several square miles of sagebrush land, 20 to 50 miles from Mud Lake, where scientists could study rabbits and learn how to avoid future overpopulation. The 200,000 member group was willing to spend 15 to$20,000 to fence a four to eight acre square mile area. And rent or buy trucks to transport the rabbits, which is about 50 to$55,000 today. Fuck up boys. Yeah. That is not to me. If you're so PA 50 cars cost more than that. People can donate. Yeah. where's your ticky talk? Rally the troops 50,000. If they were able to rally so many people to come to do the bunny bash. And they're also threatening that these conservation groups are gonna boycott, which must mean that they have a meaningful amount of people that will boycott to make a difference then. Yeah, I, it sounds totally doable. The group has selected a possible site but wouldn't reveal its location. Or whether it was private or public land. Well, you kind of got to do that. Yeah, well, it's the Rabbit Ranch, a short-term solution to the inhumane killing, a long-term project to learn how to control rabbits in the future. Bailey said, and that would be nice to, to figure out how to avoid, because it does sound like, I mean, we're talking 15, 20,000 rabbits on. Yeah, that's just still an immense to even know that there's that many that like how did they even count'em? Farm Bureau spokesman, John Hatch called the plan quote. Completely absurd. He said, he said, I don't think they realize the food the rabbits can consume. He said, and that was the problem. They won't do well in captivity. They'll kill each other. Bailey said he would meet Hatch to discuss the proposal. So a different type of Bunny Bunny bash Bunny on Bunny bashing. Yeah, bunny on Bunny crime. And I'm with Wild. They will eat each other. They will. They will. Like we saw in the Liger King. Yeah. They will eat each other when it, they're not, they don't, they aren't built with compa. Like they don't have that reasoning. And it's the survival instinct. Yeah. People will eat each other if they have to. I read the book alive like four times. Really? Yeah, I'm gonna watched the movie probably 10. Wow. You know what? Do you know what I'm talking? I have no idea what you're talking about. Oh, where they crashed the plane in the Andes. It had Ethan Hawk. Yes. And they do have to. Yeah, they do. And they did to survive. Mm-hmm. Uh. Book Way better. I mean, I enjoyed the movie book, always better book, always better book, better movie, sometimes good. Still never better. Still never better. I've never had, even when I've loved the movie and I've read the book and absolutely love the movie, the book is always better. You just have more opportunity unless you're, I will say if the book is that good, do a series, an HBO series for the book. Then you might be able to do the book justice.'cause you just don't have the time in two to three hours to do what a book can do. Correct. Thank you. There's no way to do it. Skepticism also came from the Idaho Humane Society, executive Director Max Finch and Pat Costello. An aid to Governor Evans. Quote, I really don't want to throw cold water on it. If they can put it together, the more power to Ello said. They're like, yeah, try it. Tear it up. It just seems like there's a new hot solution every week. This seems to be the one for this week, Hatch said that he was worried the group would simply release the animals. Mm Quote for one thing. I don't trust them because there's no reason to trust them. He said there is no reason to believe that they would keep the animals pinned up. It would be absolutely unacceptable for them to let them loose. Well, and if they started seeing the rabbits killing each other, they might have originally thought, we'll keep him in here. And then saw, and then they might panic, saw some carnage, and they're like, oh my gosh. There's absolute mutiny on our hands and rabbit crime. Mm-hmm. True rabbit on rabbit crime. It's a huge deal. I would just like for you to picture, let's just take. You know what is a good example? What, what if there was 15,000 pack rats at the cabin? Terrifying. No, and I was just, I was actually just thinking that because some places get overwhelmed with gophers. Mm-hmm. And they will start, you can get some, a tiny bit of money from a gopher, car dead gopher, whatever you wanna call it. And there's traps and there's smoking amount and all these different ways flooding out, not very humane, but it's pretty acceptable. no one really bats an eye. Someday I will talk about the pack rat situation. It's brutal. Pack Rats are fiendish, fiendish animals and quite terrifying. They're fucking huge and they're cute. I don't think they're cute. You don't think? I think they're cute. Have you ever seen'em When we cough, aren't they big? Did you ever look at their little face in their little ears? A okay, if I thought a little minks was cute. I'm sure it might, I might be able to to to get into it, but Okay. Do they ha they have that little naked tail though? No, they don't. Don't, they don't. It's a furry tail. Like, all right, now I'm opening up to this.'cause the naked tail is fucking creepy. Uh, like a ground squirrel, like the little squirrels that we have up there. Mm-hmm. They have just like this little hair on each side. Yeah, just a little. It's not a naked rat tail. They don't look like rats. Right. They look like a cross between a squirrel and a hamster. Okay. That is very cute because they got the little cute round ears that you like. I do like those. Okay. But 15,000 mm would, that is a little scary. It only takes one to eat a leather fucking couch to ask her how she knows. Anyway, I digress. critics also accuse Bailey of misrepresenting himself to infiltrate the drives. No, this fucking bitch undercover. He was probably like, I've got my golf clubs. Where do I get to start whacking these? These? But no, he's like, Bailey, he said. Deception had been necessary to learn about the roundups and stop what he called the inhumane, killing a massacre. He and fund worker Jerry Owens had joined a drive posing as greyhound trainers seeking rabbits for their dogs. Oh my gosh. This is getting intense. They're like, we could be undercover. Quote, it does not give me a good feeling, but in situations like this, there is no other method of obtaining the information you need. Bailey said, the attitude of the farmers has been, they don't want to discuss this matter. If they had been more open with us, we would've been more open with them. Bailey volunteered for the fund, which covered his motel and expenses. He said he belonged to Greenpeace and the SAU Society and made a living with freelance photography, sheet metal and plumbing. Hmm. Owens was a paid investigator and he had been sent to Idaho to step up the fund's effort. Quote, we are willing to spend any amount necessary on this atrocity. Any amount, 50,000. That's, that's what you were willing to spend? Yeah. Don't say any. Actually, it was 15 to 20,000, but now, yeah, nowadays Money 50. fund President Cleveland a Amar, said quote, these people are indecent people giving an indecent death. Owens from Tyler, Texas said that unless an alternative to clubbing was found, the fund would file criminal charges or seek an injunction for cruelty to animals. Wow. This, and listen, I don't picturing it and seeing it and all of this. I don't like it. However, it's a, this was a huge problem, and if it was my property, I don't care if I'm farming or not. If I had 10 acres and had a thousand jack rabbits on my 10 acres eating every, you couldn't even have a fucking sprig of grass. It's my proper, like I know that it sucks, and if it wasn't a protected wildlife thing. there's balances that you can have, and I, I get that they are appalled by it too, and wanna investigate and get in on it, but also provide solutions. I, my, a big pet peeve of mine is someone who is Ally, this is a problem. Fix it. I, and I, I, I love that someone brings it up, but if you never can provide solutions, I know they said the Bunny Ranch was one. But again, they will literally eat each other. They are, they are. Road look, they find a better way to kill them. Yeah, because you don't like the way that they're being killed. Find one that isn't gonna cost someone the same amount of money that they've already lost in all of their, you know, farming stuff that they're doing. what is the solution? Is there a better way that we can kill them that you feel is more humane Provide so something instead of bitching, let's go. Or put'em on that damn ranch and sign some contracts that say that this is what you're gonna do and you're not allowed to release to neighboring places or whatever like that would've not worked. Have exit photos. They would've, they would've rescued those rabbits. I'm telling you. And just based on what we talked about, the multiplication One rabbit in short. One in having 24 babies. Per year one. And then those 24 babies are gonna have another 24 baby. Like it's 24 babies each. Yeah. And then all of a sudden there's all of a sudden they're eating each other. Can I just be crass and say fucking like rabbits, like literally it's a thing. Finch cautioned that the fund's tactic might be creating ill will among farmers and said he disagreed with the proposed boycott of Idaho potatoes and other products. Idaho Growers Shippers Association, executive Director David Smith, said the boycott had no effects on shipments and the Idaho Potato Commission Director Gordon Randall said that there was no way to know whether consumers were buying fewer potatoes. They're trying to rally something. Mm-hmm. But they're not seeing any effect. Okay. Owen's concluded. Rising hostility between farmers and animal welfare groups might hinder efforts to stop the clubbing. I'm a little bit down about the whole situation. He said it's the worst thing that can happen. We'll play with egos for a while and the rabbits will keep on getting hurt.

Stephanie:

Hmm.

Dani:

On January 6th, 1982, Idaho Farm Bureau Federation officials said fund representatives who wanted to set up the rabbit ranch had failed to show up for talks on feasibility. I would rather like to have nothing to do with him. Anymore at all. Executive John Hatch said hours after the plan meeting fell through Hatch and fellow official, Andy Anderson said the no show intensified the displeasure with

Stephanie:

Bailey and Owens. And listen, I can, I can share in that,'cause I've already said it once, but they are o to do a feasibility study Uh, I think a lot of people are familiar with what that is. Like. Okay, let's scope it out. What would it look like? What would we need for your

Dani:

fence? Bunny ranch.

Stephanie:

Yes. And what are the things that you, you need different stakeholders in People that know this species, pe, people that know the land People. Once again, where is the land gonna be? Public or private? That's kind of important. That's a big deal. Yeah. Do you, are you needing to buy the land or can the government give you a piece of public land to do this to? Because listen, I think that being able to study them and if there's ways that you can reduce the massive, reproduction and spread, if there's something that can be found from it, sure, let's go. then it would, then it will help the farmers, but it doesn't with them to just ghost. I would be like, we're fucking trying, you guys, we're open to your bunny ranch idea. We are literally getting people here, important people, decision makers,

Dani:

and you're no-show. This is sometimes people with a cause are all talk

Stephanie:

and no action. And there's some people that are big idea people but not doers. But then it's your responsibility to get in the doers. To find the doers

Dani:

Yes. That believe in your cause, and that can be so frustrating. And you can take it down to a simple, I mean, even a neighborhood association where people are complaining about something. So, Bailey and Owens have been asking to end the Mud Lake roundups that have resulted in the slaughter of 55,000 jackrabbits.

Stephanie:

Oh, shit. They're really, they're stepping it up, no pun intended, but tr Absolutely true. Killing it like that. I'm, I was gonna say it, not knowing what I was saying. I don't know they, but literally 55,000, they're getting a dad.

Dani:

Do not put something between farmers and feeding their families. Uh, yeah. and Farmers were enraged that. That Bailey and Owens had posed as participants to observe the killing and spirit away wounded animals.

Stephanie:

No, and I can, I can see that, you know, they're the, the deception is going and that's not help the actual people where they're like, they

Dani:

actually did take some rabbits and they put'em in a hotel bathroom. In the tub, and some of them are injured and some of them died. I didn't write all that. I didn't wanna get, well, I didn't wanna get too de descrip descriptive, but they did. They, they stole some.

Stephanie:

And what does that look like? You got a big ass burlap sack. You're just getting injured

Dani:

rabbits in it. hatch and Owens had asked by phone for a meeting with Farm Bureau officials and Humane Society Director Mac Finch at 2:00 PM Wednesday, but by late afternoon, the Bureau was closing for the day without a word from Owens or Bailey. Get your shit together, boys. You are gonna cause a ruckus. Mm-hmm. Ask for a boycott. You better be fucking showing up. It's just irresponsible. Yeah. It, it's just irresponsible. I can understand

Stephanie:

if no one was willing to talk with them or meet with them or discuss and we're trying to run them out of the town. It doesn't sound like that's the case. Like

Dani:

No, but they're like, don't pose this Greyhound dog owner. Yeah. The jig is up. Yeah. Like, okay. We got you. Let's talk about it. But to cause a ruckus and then not to, and not a national ruckus calling for a boycott. Yeah. And you think you have a solution and these farmers are willing to come talk to you. Show up and take your stand. Yeah, man. Do it. Mm-hmm. On January 13th, more than a thousand rabbits were killed by strict nine laced alfalfa in a test. They're trying to find an alternative and I don't know if I like

Stephanie:

that.

Dani:

I don't know. Can I look up what Strick nine does? Yeah, I can look that up.

Stephanie:

I would, I would like to know, I mean, we all know of Strick nine, and I know that if another animal eats an animal and that's gonna come up. Yeah. That it will hurt them. And so now you're, now you're affecting the whole ecosystem. I mean, and listen, you are affecting the whole ecosystem when you're killing off a bunch of rabbits, but clearly they don't have a predator that is managing the species and taking them out enough to manage the thousands, tens of thousands of rabbits that are out here. What does it do? Terrible, right? I'm sure it is. Any, there's not usually an easy poison,

Dani:

strict nine poisoning is a medical emergency where the body's muscles go into violent, painful spasms because the poison blocks the off switch for nerve signals to muscles. Okay, this is, this is painting the picture. This leads to extreme muscle stiffness, uncontrolled. Arching of the neck and back, and then eventually the person can't breathe. The, the rabbit can't breathe, which can be fatal. It is fatal. Symptoms appear quickly, often within minutes of exposure, making prompt, medical attention, crucial. Uh, they weren't saving the rabbits. Yeah. But, The off switch, it says, strict nine blocks, a chemical in your brain and spinal cord that acts like a break on muscle signals. Wow. And then it says there's constant muscle stimulation with the break. Gone. Muscles are consistently being told to contract leading to severe, uncontrollable and painful. Imagine

Stephanie:

that of the arching of the neck and back if you, if your body was involuntarily and forcefully, vi violently is how it said it. Doing that, would you like maybe think like

Dani:

a seizure type of a

Stephanie:

situation almost? Or even e even if it's just contracting and you're violently being thrown back and contracting in that way and your hands and arms and everything.

Dani:

I'm saying if you ha, if I had to pick, if they said, Hey, he gotta pick away to go, do you want me to, do you want me to shoot you in the head? Or do you wanna take poison? Mm-hmm.

Stephanie:

Or even. A fucking bat to the head because I wouldn't know

Dani:

honestly after that

Stephanie:

if you can get it done in one swing. Especially even if two like, and this is just my personal opinion, but this is for me. I don't wanna be having a muscle spasm contract within, so a few minutes and you're just, your whole body. You've lost all control in a painful, arching situation. No, I don't like it.

Dani:

No. I

Stephanie:

don't wanna do that. No, not for me.

Dani:

Nope. And I don't wanna be strangled either.'cause then you know what's happening.

Stephanie:

No, not that we gotta

Dani:

talk about it.

Stephanie:

Mm-hmm.

Dani:

Um, yeah. Quick, fast. Okay. I'm glad we looked that'cause I didn't look that up Right.

Stephanie:

Of how it actually works.

Dani:

Like you think

Stephanie:

of and I've, it's not like they just go to sleep and don't wake up. Right? It's not like, oh, it just putting an animal down or something. I just had some

Dani:

alfalfa and I'm so fat and sassy. I'm gonna go and take a nap and never wake up. It's not like that. If

Stephanie:

there was something that could do that, that'd be fantastic. That would be great.

Dani:

Yeah. Give me a little overdose.

Stephanie:

Honestly, I need an extended nap. Yeah, let's go. In this economy. Sorry guys, that was dark. We're not. We're good. Please don't call a wellness check. We're fine. Okay.

Dani:

members of the Bingham County Rodent Control District placed 16 pounds of bait containing two ounces of poison at the farm of Blaine Benson near Taber. It could be Tabor. I should have looked that up. My bad. I don't know. These are very tiny towns in southeastern Idaho and we are more southwestern. Yeah, Boise Nampa is all southwest, so I'm gonna nail those names, but some of these little towns, I'm gonna fuck up and I apologize.

Stephanie:

It's our state, but our state is. Not the biggest, but it's fairly big and there is so many fucking small towns.

Dani:

Eastern Idaho farmers said Jackrabbits had destroyed more than 10 million in crops. And, and this is why I think that just the collective, this is why I think it went from five to 10 million is because I think that there's other farmers coming out saying there me too. I, that's me. And so now that's how I think that number. Getting everyone's information and everything right, because they're like, oh wait, you two? Oh yeah, I, and so that number has doubled

Stephanie:

and it's tough to get people to quantify it.'cause they can be like, yes, and there's no yes my hay or my grass or whatever. But it's you have to find a

Dani:

and this is literally like, they didn't even have excelling. They're literally, it's just word of there's no, nobody is Facebooking and TikTok and having. Right. A viral moment, right? Yeah. They're literally talking to farmers and calling other. Mm-hmm. six Roundups by then had killed up to 65,000 rabbits. US Fish and Wildlife Service biologists, Eric Peacock, said the bait set around Benson's Ravage Hay Act could have killed as many as 6,000 rabbits. He's talking about the strict mind. Mm-hmm. And Benson, was going to bury the corpses under dirt and snow until the ground thawed. He said the test proved strict nine worked and that he planned to set out more bait that night can be managed. He said, we know what we're doing. I'd rather do this than try to get 500 guys together in a rabbit drive. I'll say the poison, the ease. For the farmer. Right. And

Stephanie:

less, but I just don't, when you look at the reality of it, of the poison being slower, more painful, I don't love the like party aspect of it that I'm sure comes up. I mean, when you get any group of people rallied together for any cause it can get outta hand. Yeah. And so it's not pretty. The and, and there are people there that would just love to inflict pain, but

Dani:

there to get, we all know they're

Stephanie:

sick fucks. Have you listened

Dani:

to our podcast? Yes, they are out

Stephanie:

there, but I feel like most of this, if you have a town of 200 and you got 500 people to come, I don't think everyone there is. Just wanting to hurt an animal. I think that they want to come together for someone and this is the solution that they've had because no one else is coming to save you. Mm-hmm. And if, if this is your lifeline, they're like, yeah, it's tough, but we gotta get get it done. And there's gonna always be those fucking weirdos. There's no way to stop that.

Dani:

We all know there's those fucking weirdos, members of the Port n Valley Audubon Society. An FWS Endangered species specialist, Richard Howard, were upset that hundreds of rabbits had been picked up before the observers arrived after the poisoning. It's a hell of a test, said Jay Anderson, a biology professor at Idaho State University, arguing that accurate counts were needed to confirm. An FWS study indicating 80 to 90% of the rabbits would die within 25 feet of the bait. They're thinking

Stephanie:

about the the like, what are the rippling effects on the whole ecosystem?

Dani:

The Audubon Society wanted a 95% kill rate to protect at least 60 endangered bald eagles in the area. So what they're looking at is they want these. These rabbits to die in very short order.

Stephanie:

Mm-hmm.

Dani:

So that they can be collected. They don't want these rabbits

Stephanie:

running, running out into, into the desert.

Dani:

Yeah. Where a bald eagle can come down and eat it and die. Yeah. Fair. But they were so, he's pissed off because they're like, why are you, let me come study this. Why are you picking up the rabbits? I wanna see where they're dying. Like how far is this going? If they're dying within 25 feet, they can be collected from these easily. Yeah. And these are huge haystacks. They're not, they're not six by 10 haystacks. Mm-hmm. They are huge haystacks, but they wanna go around and just observe what is happening to make it a real study. Mm-hmm. Rodent District Secretary Brian Finnegan said the test showed beta alfalfa was the most effective method, and that fewer than 10% of the rabbits had managed to escape farther than 90 yards from the hay. But that's still a big 90 yards. Is that's a, that's a football film almost. Yeah, it's far and depending on your ground, depending on the land. Like if it's just straight desert, yeah, maybe you can go gather. You could easily

Stephanie:

see and gather and get a group together. But if hills and mountains and premises and also

Dani:

there's some kinda lava rock formations out there. Lot of that. So they don't wanna leave those out there. Like you gotta, if you're gonna use this poison, you gotta be responsible and you gotta go pick it up.

Stephanie:

Yeah.

Dani:

Irvin t Twitchell said that he and his neighbors had known two years earlier that the jackrabbits would be a serious problem. That winter. They'd seen some type of trend, and he urged long range research into cyclical rabbit problems rather than stop gap measures every decade. And this is an old farmer, like he's been doing this for a lot of years and he's like, I've seen this before. And know probably in the forties we're into it again. In the sixties it's happened. It, they're not making it. There's not the media. It isn't new. We're not

Stephanie:

rewriting history. History, but he's like,

Dani:

history repeats itself and it's repeating and he's like, Hey, I would love to see long-term research on this, on why this is happening versus just.

Stephanie:

Because if there's years and years and years where this doesn't happen, what, how can we maybe help facilitate this not happening? So we don't have to argue about is it better to shoot? Is it better to beat? Is it better to poison? Is it better to,

Dani:

and I will say shooting is probably financial. First of all, un

Stephanie:

undoable.

Dani:

It's

Stephanie:

financially

Dani:

not feasible. And also, and how good of

Stephanie:

shots are people? Everyone wants to think they're a good shot. This is a smaller animal.

Dani:

It's a

Stephanie:

small animal. Really real. How much ammunition is it gonna take? If everyone was a perfect shot and you, and you want a kill shot, 15,000, you don't wanna shoot him in the in the gut. If everyone was a perfect shot, 65,000 I think we're up to or something. Yeah. If in today's money, let's just say a dollar bullet for a cheap bullet, a dollar a bullet,$65,000, if everyone is a perfect shot, yeah.

Dani:

Twitchel and other farm leaders met with Governor John Evans telling him about the$10 million in damage to crops and haystacks.

Stephanie:

Okay.

Dani:

He said Solutions might be chemical, mechanical, or even electrical. But they must be an environmentally safe approach. In the past, concern had only risen when the problem became bad, when the research would start, then. It give water interest would fade as the population dies down. So it's like, it's like a do or die on this. It's like, oh my God, this is a problem. And then everybody get involved and then, and, and then it's fine. And then there's no support. You're gonna see what happens. It's, it really is, just remember the cyclical,

Stephanie:

like the guy said, we've seen it before.

Dani:

Yeah. Yeah. on January 15th, Boise attorney Bill Mock said he would file suit against the Mud Lake Farmer Rabbit Committee on the following Monday unless an agreement was reached representing the Fund for Animals and nine Idahoans. He said he would seek a temporary restraining order to stop the weekly drives, which is clients considered inhumane and objected to for allowing children to participate. Fair.

Stephanie:

They do have a point there because I don't love that. I don't, I don't think that's okay. No, I don't. It's not a, it's not a fun family activity. I would invite, you're not going to the fair kid or grandchild to at all.

Dani:

mock, said quote, we're not attempting to frustrate the legitimate interest of the farmers to deal with a severe problem and protect themselves from crop loss. He also said that his clients ultimately proposed killing animals Humanely. He declined to identify the nine Idahoans saying their names would appear in the, in the suit to be filed in the Seventh Judicial District in Idaho Falls, naming the Rabbit Committee and Jefferson County as defendants Mark's clients proposed herding rabbit. Into an enclosure and killing them by carbon monoxide, gas lethal injection, or a captive bolt system. I just have to say captive

Stephanie:

bolt system like they do with cattle, doing it with 20,000 rabbits. The precision needed with, listen, this is how they do it at dairies. I just know because my dad worked at a, or not a dairy, but how they, a meat processing facility. Yes. Thank you. They basically a cattle, a cow walks in, a bolt, goes through their brain. It should humanely and quickly kill them. Sometimes it does not. For that reason, there are men on that are raised up on walkways with shot or guns. I don't know what type of gun it is. Probably not a shotgun. Probably a like a rifle. Yeah. because sometimes it, they don't hit it quite right and it causes them to go into a panic and obviously, and then they have to shoot it. Doing that with rabbits 20,000 with a

Dani:

little three inch head. Maybe four inches.

Stephanie:

That is not realistic. No, I'm so sorry.

Dani:

That's what I was like, you heard that in my voice? a captive bolt says

Stephanie:

no. Come to us with some real ideas and listen, I'm open. Like I said, I'm open. There's things I don't know shit about. Fuck. When it comes to humanely, like having to cull thousands of animals, it's a shitty, it's, it's shitty no matter what way, what way you look at it,

Dani:

it is.

Stephanie:

But that is not realistic. No. The bolt system that is for injection, we're gonna give them individually, like the put down medication that, that you give your dog.

Dani:

Are we gonna round the stress? It

Stephanie:

has to be intravenous, doesn't

Dani:

it? The, the put down medication, well, they said monoxide, uh, the carbon monoxide data that I could

Stephanie:

see.'cause you can put a bunch of animals into a large container that's airtight. I don't love it still. It's like gassing fucking animals. But if it, if it, if they just go to sleep, I don't know how that is, but

Dani:

not knowledgeable enough to know how, and I'm not saying clubbing. The animals is, look, I want you to think about finding some mice in your pantry. Mm-hmm. Um. How do you handle that? How do you handle that? Where they're literally getting into your kids'? They, they chew through your cereal, your kid's cereal that immediately has to go in the trash. Mm-hmm. So just think about stacks of hay that can hurt you. Yeah, you can, uh, I can't remember what mice carry, but it's bad. What is it?

Stephanie:

Male species is not good.

Dani:

No. But they carry something that's mm-hmm. Super bad for humans. You don't. And anani, your domestic animals, your dogs, your cats, you don't want them messing with my shit. Um, how do you handle that? Are you, are you putting a, a live trap and then gonna go stick a trap? Are you gonna go let them go in the backyard? I just, if you let them go in the backyard, they're going, that's where they, they're coming from. They're came back. and then the sticky trap, I personally, I'm gonna say it, I think the sticky trap is the most inhumane way. Yes. To catch a mouse.

Stephanie:

However, I will say this is literally the worst time for flies in our area. I do have a sticky fly trap, which is. Arguably the same thing, but now we're talking about a fly. So it's, it's, this whole thing is one of those things of where, where's your line? And I don't have a defined line, but it's there. There are things you have to consider on all sides. I do agree.

Dani:

I don't consider. I'm just saying that. I don't want flies in my house shitting on my piece of bread or no. And bothering you in your sleep and like, no, nevermind. They're just annoying in general, but also they're disgusting. So what's the line there? But I do think sticky traps, ew, for mice don't like

Stephanie:

it.

Dani:

They're alive, literally trying to put anyways struggling, blah. No, I. Am a trap girl. I will not put those. I've never used a sticky trap. I want the fucking whack. You're dead. That's, that's, that's my Jeff. And that feels

Stephanie:

more humane than the other alternatives. None of it is feel good. No, there's nothing where you're like, stuff, did I tell you

Dani:

that I had a mouse in my garage and Jared made me feel really bad about it because? I got to my garage and had my coffee and my cigarette in the morning. Mm-hmm. And this little mouse was popping out, looking at me, wasn't scared of me. And they're fucking

Stephanie:

cute. Mice are cute. I don't think it's subjective. I think they're just fucking cute.

Dani:

But they also are destructive

Stephanie:

and

Dani:

gross. Normal supply. Yeah. The Soto Mouse. I set the trap when I went to bed.

Stephanie:

Mm-hmm.

Dani:

I'm like, okay, I'm gonna catch this mouse whack. Done. Sorry about your luck. Shouldn't come into the garage. but he waited till I was having my morning coffee and cigarette, and then were there. He looked at me and then I heard quack. And so Jerry was like, he just wanted to say hello to you, Ava. Jeremy made me feel so fucking bad about that matter. He was goodbye to

Stephanie:

you.

Dani:

Ah, anyway, If an agreement could be reached or ordered by the court, he said. The methods would be worthwhile experiments for farmers statewide. The fund was willing to contribute money for humane elimination, and he said that the state and county should also contribute. The drives had created considerable tension between farmers and opponents of clubbing. Quote. We're willing to meet with them and work out agreeable solutions if they're willing

Stephanie:

to meet with us. Mock said. And I like that because I do agree that the state and county should be involved because this is affecting your GDP, for your county and like this is affecting. So can we get a little help, A little diet? Did we have

Dani:

mosquito abatement? Yeah. You know all that shit. Eradication. Thank you. Abatement. Yeah. Like, we spray for mosquitoes here. Mm-hmm. So, yeah. It, it is, especially on this level, it's not because you have a dirty farm that you're getting these, you know, jackrabbits coming. Yeah.

Stephanie:

There's, you cannot help it. No, no. And like the guy said, that's been doing this since the 19 eighteens or whatever, every few decades or decade it happens. Mm-hmm. And when it does, it's destructive. And this is, the livelihood of the people that live in your county and are bringing in money and are participating in the economy.

Dani:

Farm Bureau public Affairs director John Hatch, called the meeting meaningless quote. They've not given us any reason to deal with them. They're opposed to what we are doing and any willingness on our part to compromise would be a moral victory for them. Owen said he had recommended legal action. In my opinion, the method that was being used was cruel, inhumane, and in violation of statutory laws in the state of Idaho. But farmers and the farm bureau contended that clubbing was legal on January 17th. About 600 Idaho farmers and people from four other states joined the drives killing another 12,000 rabbits. Near how 30 miles southwest of Mud Lake, about a hundred farmers killed a thousand rabbits. Two other how area drives killed. 6,000 more around Mud Lake. About 500 farmers in the subfreezing temperatures herded the jack rabbits, and two, a funnel shape trapped and clubbed them to death, bringing the days total there to about 11,000. So

Stephanie:

a complete massacre. I can't even picture 11,000 of anything. Well, and that's, if that's what you were able to capture and kill, how many total were there in reality? Yeah. Can

Dani:

I can't imagine 11,000 of anything. No. Okay. More drives were planned for January 23rd with as many as six additional roundups. Before spring, if the weather stayed mild, animal protection groups continued to protest clubbing as inhumane. The how. Farmers had not announced previous drives to avoid attention. They were, they were trying like, let us just take care of our business. I really do feel that way. Mm-hmm. Like, we're not trying to be in the media. We're just trying to save millions of dollars in the, Hey, they, it's a big deal.

Stephanie:

And this has been an issue in the past. It's not like we're doing this every year. It's just when the population explodes exponentially and what's, what's the solution create a meaningful'cause. I'm sure that even in the bad years, they probably had rabbits and they, they're just able to make that as a cost of, yeah. You know that cost of doing business, I'm gonna lose 3%.

Dani:

Yeah, I'm gonna lose Tim 10. 10 is a lot though. That is a lot. Farmers in Minidoka, Casha, Bingham and Jerome counties were considering drives and even ranchers in Northern Nevada had inquired as well. Said, listen up. Uh, same, same. Oh, we got same crime. If

Stephanie:

this is, and if you look at the square miles of like southeastern Idaho and Northern Nevada, if this is clearly a huge problem that is spanning thousands of miles, I mean hundreds, I don't know. Hundreds of miles at least.

Dani:

At least. Just trying to, I know more miles into Oregon, so. Oh yeah, Reno probably. I could Google it, but I'm not square

Stephanie:

miles,

Dani:

but I'm just thinking like traveling. So I think Oregon, like Portland from here is like 400 miles. Very Nevada. So for square miles? Yeah. Yeah, huge. On January 19th, an attorney for animal protection groups asked the seventh district Judge Willard c Burton, for an order to stop for the drives. But Burton said he would not issue it without first giving farmers a chance to appear and give their side.'cause that's fair. Yeah. He set a hearing to consider a restraining order request submitted by the Fund for Animals and the Animal Protection Society. So 10 drives have been held in five weeks. Most in the Mud Lakemont view area. And Western Jefferson County, plus three smaller drives at how farmers now estimated they had slaughtered 75 to 80,000 jack rabbits.

Stephanie:

And just if there's that many is insane to me.

Dani:

On February 1st, the two groups are in court for the requested temporary injunction. The number of rabbits killed had nearly reached 114,000 at this point. Damn, judge Burton heard both sides and wait if he should block the drives until a trial or just allow the farmers to continue before spring breeding multiplied the population. But he's quick.

Stephanie:

Mm-hmm.

Dani:

On February 5th, Burton ruled that Eastern Idaho farmers had a legal right to round up and kill jack rabbits to protect crops, but he imposed court ordered guidelines.

Stephanie:

Okay.

Dani:

I feel like this is fair. Fair.

Stephanie:

And there needs to be some guidelines. Yeah. I feel like,'cause I don't think there was.

Dani:

He said farmers had not violated state anti cruelty laws during the nine winter drives that resulted in clubbing more than a hundred thousand rabbits. However, he barred young children from future roundups. I agree with that. And prohibited bunny baseball. What? Where participants tossed live rabbits for others to strike midair. Disgusting. This is

Stephanie:

insane that a judge has to be like, listen guys, and that's, that's another reason why animal groups had more footing, because things are getting wild, things are escalating well, and people are, yes, it might be more humane than a sticky trap or a poison. But when you're like using it to get joy and making sport of it, that's a, that's still a different thing. So I'm glad that he addressed this because

Dani:

back to the beginning of the story, when he was, when I said there was kids karate, chopping and punching rabbits. Yes. What is that? No, like take your heavy item, dad. Get the

Stephanie:

children out of there.

Dani:

Quote, the evidence finds that any of the killing and cruelty that may have been exhibited in eliminating these rabbits was done with honest intent to protect their property and was done under the authority of law and under the authorization of Jefferson County Commission Burn. Said, I cannot stop it. What I'm hearing, they're rodents. That's how the court is viewing them. They're viewing them as mice, as rats, as gophers, and even,

Stephanie:

even if they weren't viewed that way, if you have a hundred of

Dani:

grasshoppers,

Stephanie:

they're, we have a hundred grasshoppers in your backyard. That's going to be very noticeable. Yeah. A hundred mice in your home. Nightmare.

Dani:

Two pack rats in your cabin.

Stephanie:

Yeah. Truly. And so it's, I I get the touchiness of it, but I'm so, like the numbers were, I can't, if they were able to kill this many, if rabbits are wiley and quick and fast, and so there's Robert's escaping. How many fucking were there? Like,

Dani:

not to mention the jackalopes,

Stephanie:

no one's talking about the jackalopes and we need to really look into that.

Dani:

Anyway, the judge denied the motion to stop the drives, but granted two fund requests.

Stephanie:

Okay.

Dani:

No children under 16 on the drive. Thank you. Yeah. And police intervention to stop any incidents of bunny baseball.

Stephanie:

I'd still prefer 18 or honestly'cause the frontal lobe. Listen, 18 minimum if you can go fight for our country. Sure. Yeah, I get it.

Dani:

I'd like to remind you that it's 81. but also, I mean, when we were on the, when it's your life

Stephanie:

Yeah.

Dani:

Literally you need some young boys and said. My son is not coming in to school this morning. He's gonna be late because the cows are out. And you know what? I got the response. Yeah, get it, Mr. Blah, blah, blah. Saw you guys running around in the field trying to round him up. It's a different environment. Yes. And so they already knew he was gonna be late because his music teacher fucking saw him, saw us all out there. He's like trying to round up the cows that it got out. So it's a different mindset. But anyway, I. Or Twitchell hailed the ruling as a victory for farmers trying to save haystacks. Quote. We tried to restrain the kids and keep them out of the killing pin, and we don't like this bunny baseball anymore than anyone else.

Stephanie:

I'm sure it was a few outliers that

Dani:

Yeah,

Stephanie:

if you saw it, you'd be like, it's shock when you see something shocking. You're like, don't do that.

Dani:

Yeah. But he added that farmers would proceed with the 10th drive the following weekend, like we're going for it because they have, they have

Stephanie:

to.

Dani:

Yeah. Farmers wanted to begin using zinc phosphide and end weekly drives, but they were still waiting on government approval for use on alfalfa. The US Fish and Wildlife Service had found zinc fides safe and effective, and released for. Release it for use on carrots. I don't know why. I don't know why they hoped it would be, released for alfalfa within seven to 10 days. This did not happen. Carcasses of poison rabbits could not be used for mink fiend as club bodies. Mm-hmm. Had been, but poison could help manage a problem across a wider area.

Stephanie:

So if they poison'em, they could do it more effectively and efficiently. Right. Okay.

Dani:

But then they were just, then there's no benefit. Complete waste. Yeah, complete waste. By 1983, residents were asking what happened to the hordes of rabbits that had ruined haystacks the previous winter? No one knew. Quote, when we had about a foot of snow on the ground last December, we had calls from three farmers west of Blackfoot. Since the snow has melted, I haven't gotten any calls, said Bingham County Agricultural Extension Agent Brian Finnegan. This is just the next winter season, right? No drama. Back at the Joe Hartwell Ranch. Jackrabbits had circled fence hay stacks in December, but retreated to the desert without major damage. Quote, last year, whole patches of heartwell pasture looked like they had been carefully cultivated. There wasn't a blade of grass left in some areas

Stephanie:

damn

Dani:

mild weather and a bumper crop of desert shrubs and grasses appeared to have reduced the population. Okay, Finnegan estimated. An 80 to 90% drop in Bingham County. Quote. You could look at the tracks and the size of the desert trails. There just weren't as many rabbits there.

Stephanie:

I really do think, yeah, we're looking at like a swarm versus like a small pack. I think

Dani:

it's like, uh. You see, um, a low fish count? Yeah. Or you see it's sick. It depends on the weather

Stephanie:

and there's so many factors that go into it. Mm-hmm. So basically they had the perfect storm of breeding explosion. Mm-hmm. And optimum feed. And for, for this all to happen optimum feed

Dani:

at haystacks. Yeah. So there still might be that many out there, but they're not. There's sufficient desert food for them that they don't have to go searching. Mm-hmm. It's just hundred percent a weird fucking thing. If you think about how that slice of just maybe the weather, a

Stephanie:

temperature being, yeah, the weather wasn't there. The

Dani:

moisture wasn wasn't there, so they had to go search for food and guess what was there

Stephanie:

a fuck load of food. Yeah. And they're like. We don't even have to try it. This is amazing. Ah, this is great. Let's fuck about it. It's a buffet. Let's fuck about it and make lots of babies

Dani:

drives and strict nine poisoning. Might or might have not significantly. Affected overall numbers. Disease was the most widely accepted explanation for crashes. After population explosions, farmers reported eagles and coyotes helped thin out the colonies. Quote, we did have quite a few eagles, Finnegan said, but it would take a lot more of them to kill thousands of rabbits,

Stephanie:

right.

Dani:

Tom Murray, who was involved in rabbit control efforts from 1918 to 1936 old school said there was nobody who would raise up their hands and stop these people from protecting their property. Those people haven't got any choice. They've got to kill rabbits after a visit to Idaho Falls. He believed poor survival among newborn rabbits had driven the decline.

Stephanie:

And disease is more effective than any poison or clubbing or drive. That if there was disease, and maybe that's something that had happened in the previous. Decades where all of a sudden they, well, this is an old school

Dani:

farmer. Yeah. Like he wa he's, he's seen this. It's repeat

Stephanie:

history repeats. Yeah.

Dani:

And I bet you in 1918 they were doing roundups.

Stephanie:

Yeah. But the press wasn't in on it then.

Dani:

Yeah. They're like, no, you gotta protect your crops. in communities north and east of Mud Lake. Residents hope the trend would continue. Irvin Twitchell was not eager to resume them or the publicity that followed. No shit. Quote. That's a lot of work he said. I worked consistently last winter and I never made a penny. In fact, I lost 150,000 in crops to the rabbits. This is an 81. I'd be fucking sick. Yeah, he did not blame the news media for the rabbits. But held, but held them in groups like the Fun for animals, responsible for the emotional response to the drives.

Stephanie:

Mm-hmm.

Dani:

Twitchell said that he would've liked to see more rabbits put to use, but still believe the drives were necessary and effective in reducing losses. And I think he's talked, I agree with that. Yeah. He's talking about using them for food.

Stephanie:

so it's not a complete waste. Right. A hundred percent.

Dani:

When you take 250,000 breeders out of the area, you know you've done something. No way about it. It just had to help. And by the spring of 1983, the rabbits were gone. Not rounded up, not poisoned, just gone. Some said it was disease. Other blamed the weather. Maybe the coyotes and eagles finally caught up, For whatever reason, the problem that once brought hundreds of farmers together was sticks in hand, vanished almost as fast as it came,

Stephanie:

right? And so I feel like that. It's like when you get, we've heard about this in history, the locust being terrible and destroying crops and this and that, the dust bowl. And if you, if you can, if you have something to help fix it and who, who's to say, I don't know what would've happened if they did nothing. I don't think the population would've decreased. So suddenly they're talking, taking a hundred thousand rabbits off the fucking map. There was an impact, even if a disease or something, which can be very widespread.

Dani:

And let me just say, what if they were diseased rabbits? Let's just, what if they were diseased rabbits that were killing cattle?

Stephanie:

Diseasing your pets and And stock.

Dani:

Yeah.

Stephanie:

Yeah. No one. So I think like we've touched on this is. No one likes this type of shit. This was clearly brutal. And there was bad actors that were being way too fucking over the top with it. There's gonna be that in every group. Not acceptable, but again, if you you, you won't do a sticky trap for a mouse, and I wouldn't either, but I do a sticky trap for a fly. I've done it. Yeah, so it's. If it's your property and you have thousands or tens of thousands of a certain animal,

Dani:

I would do you do, just like people. The how would you handle, if you had six mice in your pantry, what would you do that is ruining your shit? Possibly could make you ill. I don't like, I, I'm gonna say right now, the bunny, the bunny baseball don't.

Stephanie:

Yes. And even just hitting them and initially I was like, why are we hitting them? be like, that seems so brutal and cave manish. But when you can, when you truly consider the alternatives, which is poison, and they were open to different things. They tried feasibility. If you're will, if you're doing a feasibility study. That means that you are welcome to informing all people who are affected or stakeholders. What's the effect if we do it this way, to really truly see, can we do it? Or if, if, or when we do it, what all do we need to consider?'cause I know I wanna consider from my point of view, but we need to have all the points of views that they didn't even know where they're putting it public or private. That's a red flag.

Dani:

And the, I think poison is way worse than getting, it sounds like

Stephanie:

it. I don't wanna be arched back fucking seing. I don't know. In pain,

Dani:

it's hard. This has just been a very, if you

Stephanie:

can get me in a one swing,

Dani:

do it. Yep.

Stephanie:

That's my opinion.

Dani:

And it's just been. But there's also, there was also some cruel, like just being, no, there was asshole. There was assholes out there.

Stephanie:

And that's, listen,

Dani:

that's gonna happen at

Stephanie:

anything. I think that we could all expect that it doesn't mean it's okay or good and do keep the kids out of it. Bringing a 5-year-old to club the fucking. Bunnies. Yeah. That no, no. That shouldn't have ever been happening in the first place. Get the, get the kids out.

Dani:

Yeah.

Stephanie:

But Danny, God damn, another Idaho piece of culture, you'll, y'all wanna know what cultures around. This is another piece of it. interesting and very relevant I think.

Dani:

And it's very, I think finding a balance. It is finding a balance. And so, any feedback,

Stephanie:

throw it at us. Yeah. How do you guys feel about this? We're not scared.

Dani:

I would love to hear some deep thoughts about this, because if you've ever had a rodent problem and I'm not talking about my house, my cabin, large rodent problem. I would say probably those pack rats are very similar to.

Stephanie:

Yeah, those

Dani:

jackrabbits. what do you do? How, how much sympathy do you have for something destroying your personal stuff, whether it's a huge commodity, like millions and dollars,

Stephanie:

the feces.

Dani:

Oh, so gross

Stephanie:

disease.

Dani:

I have literally went up to my cabin and had this pack rat shit on my kitchen table. And

Stephanie:

you're like,

Dani:

ah, if you stay outside, I will not bother you, but don't come shitting on my table. Don't eat my sugar. Like, oh, they love that sugar. Mm-hmm. Crackheads. but what is the, the level of compassion?'cause I do look, I wanna be compassionate to animals. Yes. Uh. Uh, compassion, but also reality and also protecting your family, your livelihood, whatever it is. So, I don't know, but we'd love your feedback on it. Let's talk about it. and thank you for listening.

Stephanie:

Yeah. Once again, a hundred percent. Love you guys.

Dani:

This podcast brought to you by that barking motherfucker. Harry,

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