The Lethal Library

42. Hate Crime Horror: The Brutal Assault at Lake Lowell

• The Lethal Library • Episode 42

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In this episode of The Lethal Library, Dani and Stephanie look into a chilling case that rocked Idaho in 2016. Steven Nelson, a man simply looking for companionship, faced a brutal and fatal attack near Lake Lowell. Join us as we unravel the details of this heinous crime, the shocking aftermath, and the infuriating shortcomings in Idaho's hate crime legislation. Along the way, we sprinkle in our dark humor and blunt commentary about the sheer stupidity of these criminals. Whether you're here for the true crime plot or our cheeky banter, we guarantee this episode is one for the books.

Contact The Lethal Library at TheLethalLibrary@gmail.com. Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok!

Dani:

on a quiet night near Lake Lowell. In 2016, a man answered an online ad for a date and drove out to Gott's point. What happened next was a setup so violent that investigators said it shocked even veteran detectives. And by morning Steven Nelson was dead and four men were in custody. Sources used in today's episode are the articles from the Idaho Statesman, KTVB, KIVI, and Wikipedia.

Stephanie:

Alright, well welcome back everyone to the Lethal Library. Glad to see you back this week. spooky season. Some might say it's over, some might say it's still going. We're open to whatever interpretation you may have. We love spooky season, so you can keep it going through Valentine's Day if you like. I do. You do you, you, do you? I'm planning on probably doing that for my work set up, my work Halloween set up because why not? It's fun.

Dani:

Yeah, I don't know. Mine's a little overwhelming, a little, a lot of color. I'm mm-hmm. Mine's coming down. Okay.

Stephanie:

Mine's

Dani:

coming down.

Stephanie:

Can't do it. That's all right. But, all I gotta say is I had a blast this Halloween season. at work we do a big thing for the kids, so does Danny's work. And it's just, it's a lot fun.

Dani:

And I dressed up scary and scare children last night, which is my favorite thing. Who

Stephanie:

doesn't like to scare some children? So, I have to, they gotta work for the candy. They gotta work for it.

Dani:

yeah. And I was grateful that my sister was here to actually hand out the candy because that's not my jam. I'm too busy. scaring, scaring and playing with my animatronics and mm-hmm.

Stephanie:

Yeah. It's freaking people out. It's my fve. So yeah. Cheers to spooky season. Hope yours was amazing. we're back for yet another episode based in Idaho, and it's one that I definitely remember. That this was a big story. This is really close to home. Pretty recent. This was 2016. it's so much so that when Danny was saying the intro, I was almost like, did we cover this?'cause I just remember some of the details from it, which I, I am not that girl that remembers the details of every case I've ever listened to, or it's horrible.

Dani:

It's horrible.

Stephanie:

Yeah, so I am, I'm just really intrigued to know the ins and outs of what happened and I'm, I'm glad that you're covering this one.

Dani:

Yeah, it um, it's very sad.

Stephanie:

You said it was gonna make me mad as well. Yeah. So, well, you're just

Dani:

gonna be pissed, so you ready to get into it? I'm ready to get into it. Let's go. Steven Nelson was 49 years old when he was assaulted and left naked early on April 29th, 2016, near Gott's Point at Lake Lowell in Nampa, Idaho. He died later that day from his injuries.

Stephanie:

Mm

Dani:

four men were booked into the county jail. 22-year-old Kelly Schneider, 21-year-old Kevin Tracy, 28-year-old Jason Woods, all from Nampa and 23-year-old Daniel Hinkle of Caldwell. I've also heard Wilder somewhere in that yonder were they were expected to be charged with first degree murder and robbery investigators said Schneider could also face a grand theft charge. MM deputies said the attacker stole Steven's car clothes and other belongings before leaving him severely injured. The first call to law enforcement came early that morning from a home near Gott's point. Residents had reported a naked man walking around and knocking on doors.

Stephanie:

Aw.

Dani:

A terrifying if you're a homeowner. B. Terrifying. Actually a terrifying if you're a man trying to find somebody to help you. B, for, I don't, I don't know if I would open the door for a naked man. I, I don't know if

Stephanie:

I would, I may try to find some other, like calling the cops, right? Or calling another neighbor that I felt could peek out, or I guess it, I would, I'd make sure to at least give

Dani:

him a blanket. At

Stephanie:

the door, something would toss it from a window or something. Yeah, something. Yeah. Yeah. But I don't, that would be a scary no. As, and I think as women, you know, probably you never'cause listen, even a woman naked, if they have behavior that's acting super erratically, it would give me a little bit pause too. However, I'd be more apt to open for a woman or give just statistically. it tracks, but a naked man that you don't know on your door if you were home alone as a woman

Dani:

and this man was bleeding,

Stephanie:

disoriented. Yeah, bleeding. You don't know what the hell happened. Yeah, no.

Dani:

Ah, I have a story. Oh, about a naked neighbor, So my son was little, in diapers, so under two. Mm-hmm. For sure. and we lived out in Middleton. We had a couple acres out there.

Stephanie:

Yeah.

Dani:

and it was in the middle of the night and I had to change a diaper and we had went somewhere that day. I left the genius. Diaper bag or I was outta wipes or something, I had to go to the car. Mm-hmm. And it was like two o'clock in the morning. Love it. Not a big deal.

Stephanie:

Regular. Sure. Right.

Dani:

Run out to the car, get my stuff, all of a sudden and we're on acreage. Mm-hmm. All of a sudden I hear somebody call my name.

Stephanie:

Oh my God.

Dani:

And I was like. That can't be

Stephanie:

what I'm hearing.

Dani:

Right. I was like, it was my neighbor and she was crying and hiding behind a tree. I think it was in, it was Gott's intervention that I was up.

Stephanie:

Right. It, it just had to be you had to go to the car and go outside.

Dani:

Her husband. Had beat her and kicked her outta the house just in her undies.

Stephanie:

I hear this type of shit so often from domestic. It was so

Dani:

fucking sad. Abusers sad. I was crying. She, why is that a thing? She was crying and then I was crying and Absolutely, I let her in my house and I gave her some shorts and a shirt to put on. Mm-hmm. it wasn't cold. Yeah. I mean, cold to It was too cold to be naked outside. Sure. That's for damn sure. I just feel though like. I am so grateful. I mean, I felt horrible for her, but I'm grateful that, that you were there. That I was, I'm grateful that I needed baby wipes in the middle of the night. Mm-hmm. So that she could get some comfort and warmth when she called her. And

Stephanie:

safety. You never know what the hell someone's gonna do. Oh, that's So, yes, I have

Dani:

opened the door, but I, I knew her. But anyways, it's so sad and so scary. Yeah.

Stephanie:

And I'm, that makes me so irritated because I feel like I've heard that story from not only friends and acquaintances, but other crime things where I don't know the person. Why in the hell are these domestic abusers? They wanna shut you outta your own house naked. It's so fucking sickening. It's

Dani:

control

Stephanie:

and just what, how you can try to keep up the facade of I care for a person if you're knocking them outta their house naked

Dani:

and that asshole. Really just thought she was just gonna sit outside and suffer. Right. All night, be cold or whatever. Like, what are you gonna do? Yeah. Well, you know what, she had a fucking neighbor that needed butt wipes in the middle of the night. Yeah. And so she didn't have to beg or plead to come back in that house, which is that ultimately what they want. What they want. Mm-hmm. She didn't have to do that. She was warm and able to call family. I don't think she called the cops,

Stephanie:

but this was, that's, that's understandable.'cause. But you have to be so careful in these, this is in like 94, 95, so, and I think that most women know when it's gonna be more, they have so much to weigh. Mm-hmm. So many different variables that they're weighing in their mind. So, although most people be like, duh, call the cops. No, because the cops often can't do much if they can't prove anything. Some states it's different. Some states, they take both parties to jail just as a like, well, and

Dani:

this was nineties. Yeah. Like, you get'em, be like, we were fighting and I told her to get the fuck outta the house, and then I locked the door. Fuck her. And they're like, anyway, there's nothing. Unless she had, you know. Yeah. So, and then in the meanwhile, he's fucking burning her shit in a burn barrel or something. Right? Like, there's all these stupid things to wave. Right. So you're right. Not right. I mean, it's not okay, but you have to find that perfect window of opportunity. Yeah. In that it's a plan thing. And so a lot

Stephanie:

of people don't understand that. I really hope that people will start to understand it more and when they're trying to help their friends or family try to just support in which way you can and encourage in which way you can.

Dani:

because the most dangerous time for a woman is when they leave.

Stephanie:

When they leave. Yeah. And so it has to be like. You have to think of so many steps in advance. And so if you don't have those steps already planned out, leaving at that point probably would end a disaster and not help you. So let's just cheers to learning about DV for us and our audience.'cause I didn't know this shit, you know? Because everyone just thinks, why wouldn't you just leave? Yeah. Wouldn't you have the cops blow up the house? And like it's truly not that simple and it doesn't work like you think it works in the movies of like, oh, now I call the cops and he's in jail, and now I have several months to get my life in order. No, he'll probably be out the next morning, even if he does go to jail and he'll be back at your house

Dani:

and you can't make him and

Stephanie:

infuriated that you've embarrassed him.

Dani:

Oh yeah. In front of the neighbors even. Oh yeah, nevermind. You called your mom. Whatever, you know? Mm-hmm. So anyways. Little side story for Yeah. But I was like, oh my God, I was,

Stephanie:

you've had a naked

Dani:

person Yeah. Asking for your help. And I was just, I was grateful.

Stephanie:

Oh, I bet. I felt so bad for her, and it gave her a little bit of power, as you said.'cause he wanted her to have to

Dani:

beg mm-hmm. To come back inside and be like, Kevin's around, whatever. Bullshit. Yeah. Those narcissists, and that's

Stephanie:

what they want is for you to have no one and nothing. Mm-hmm. Yep. That's, that's their ultimate goal. So. Fuck all those shit ass people.

Dani:

All right. Back to the story. Residence had reported a naked man walking around and knocking on doors. When the deputies arrived, they found Steven. He had told them that he had been attacked and robbed. He was taken to St. Alfon Regional Medical Center in Boise, where he later died that morning. And about 10 30

Stephanie:

and St. Al's is like a more specialized right hospital built for like trauma. That's why trauma, and that's why they take you to Boise. You gotta go. They do have a trauma ward and deal with specialized cases.

Dani:

The ADA County coroner ruled his death a homicide caused by cardiac arrest.

Stephanie:

Oh my

Dani:

God. According to Canyon County, sheriff here and Donahue, what happened to Mr. Nelson was a heinous crime Donahue said. You know, Donahue was in, another story we just did. Heinous, heinous, heinous, heinous. Mm-hmm. I think,

Stephanie:

but you know, it was a heinous crime. They have been heinous.

Dani:

I mean, this, this, yeah, you're gonna get upset. But before he died, Steven was able to give the investigators a detailed description of one of the men and had told them what had happened before till leaving there before his heart attack. Thank God. I don't know if these guys would've got busted or not. It'd be it.'cause he was able to describe what happened. Mm-hmm. He said he had been beaten, stripped and that his 2006 Chevy Impala had been stolen after meeting what he thought was a person for a rendezvous near the lake.

Stephanie:

Mm-hmm.

Dani:

So, uh, just for people that are not, familiar, Gott's point, it's, we have Lake Lowell.

Stephanie:

Yes.

Dani:

Here in, canyon County,

Stephanie:

very popular recreation, site for boating, fishing. There's a wildlife preserve on part of it for endangered species of birds, and you know, there's deer there. It's, it's real. Lake Lowell gets a bad rap, as does anything in Canyon County, from people in Boise. It is a

Ad:

reservoir.

Stephanie:

It, it is a manmade reservoir. but I will say I grew up on Lake Lowell and great memories from there. I don't know that I'd eat the fish from there just because eating fish from anywhere a little iffy, and it does get algae when it gets really, really warm. So if you're in the lake and the water

Dani:

gets slower Yeah,

Stephanie:

if you're in the later months of summer, because it's a manmade reservoir. And the heat is up. And I'm not even talking about toxic algae. Mm. It gets that sometimes, but So does everybody have water? No. Like the, the kind that your pets can't, but it would often get regular algae that is not harmful, and so it gets a little chunky. Mm-hmm. You know, especially by the edges. If you have a boat and you can go out by the middle, it's not as much. Even we went out on the

Dani:

boat this year,

Stephanie:

a little chunky.

Dani:

It's just you come across like. It's dirty conglomerates

Stephanie:

of it. Yeah. It's dirty.

Dani:

unlike, there's floaties for sure, unlike Lucky Peak that has like, it's always flowing. Mm-hmm. And fresh water comes. This is all canal water. It's deeper and it's colder at Lucky Peak, like it's canal water. Yeah.

Stephanie:

And it is what it is.

Dani:

So if you, still enjoy it, favorite memories Not, not, I'm kidding. Right now. Like two foot carp running by your legs when you're playing at the dock. Did you ever have that? A what?

Stephanie:

The carp. Oh yes. They have carp fishing competition sometimes just to, it's like an invasive species type thing where people go and just fish the shit out of the carp and they are

Dani:

disgusting fish. They are gross looking. They're trash fish and they are huge and big scales, humongous scales. And they will rub right against your

Stephanie:

legs. Yeah. Yeah, so it's, listen, if you have an opinion about it, I respect your opinion either way, but I just feel like for the folks that have never been there that say, oh, it's disgusting. It's really not. Not that bad. I mean, I got in the water this year. Yeah, same. And people, there's really great fish in there like Ricky, Ricky catches. The bass, some amazing fish out of there. We are typically a catch and release anyway, so it doesn't matter. He's there for the fun of it. Yeah. But it's like, it's a nice recreation spot for us. It's free, like mm-hmm. You wanna do your kids' birthday, a picnic there. There's recreation areas. They have like a little, don't they have like a little museum type? It might be closer the wild.

Dani:

They have a wildlife center.

Stephanie:

Wildlife center, yeah. So you can go there, get field trips there. I remember one of my. Projects in high school was to track invasive species and the people that do that for a living show you how to map out what they've done. So it's a cool place. it does get a bad rap though for sure. People think it's literally a sewer, it's not a fucking sewer it's, it is not an actual toilet bowl. I'm still living and I played

Dani:

in it my whole life. So I have

Stephanie:

drank the water as a child. We're still alive. Yeah, we're fine. So B'S been a bad

Dani:

rap.

Stephanie:

It does say, say

Dani:

less about, about Lake Lowell, but also Gott's point is very, I mean, I was skinny dipping out there as a kid. It's

Stephanie:

very accessible. There's a good, usually a good beach area, maybe now,

Dani:

not back in the day. It was kind of Bumby road. Yeah. Yeah. He had to get out there and then you build a bonfire and I don't know what you're thinking, you know. 14, 16, 8. Building a bonfire on the lake that's closed.

Stephanie:

Yeah, you're gonna get caught immediately fishing games, so whatever, right out there. Anyway, so

Dani:

Sheriff Donahue later said that Steven had used Backpage to arrange a sexual encounter and planned to pay one of the suspects. Unfortunately, when he got out of his car at this location with the individual. There were other individuals waiting in ambush and they attacked him. How shitty is that? Based on Steven's statement, investigators uncovered evidence on multiple websites linking the suspects to similar activity. This was their shtick. This is what they were doing. This was not their first time. Donahue said this was a planned attack. What they did not plan for was that Steven would be able to come forward and tell us this information.

Stephanie:

Mm-hmm. And listen, honestly, I'm already getting very, they've got this a case of the stupids. Mm-hmm. These criminals, because this type of crime, if you don't beat the fuck outta someone too bad, maybe you just give'em a little slapping around and subdue them enough to rob them, which it sounds like that was the ultimate goal. This being, as you said, he was there for an encounter that some people would find unsavory or shameful. If someone can walk away from there with maybe still even their car, or even without their car, without being beat to death, they're not gonna want to have you pursued because they don't want. The shame of it. The drama. Yeah. And that, and so that's why it's like, why the fuck did you go that far? You psychos like,

Dani:

oh, they know what they're doing. Sounds like it. This one didn't go to plan. Did not go to plan. Mm. Okay. Detectives believe there could be more victims in the Treasure Valley who have been ambushed in similar setups. We want victims to come forward. Donahue said, we believe they are out there. He assured them that they would not face charges for solicitation, which is always a fear. Mm-hmm. That is against the law. But when you're talking about getting beat, robbed murder, they don't, the cops are not caring. They're not trying to, that you were gonna pay for sex. Yeah. They, they don't care. Yeah. When it comes

Stephanie:

to that. For the most part. Yeah. But I can see how it would still be a fear. So it's good that they, oh, absolutely.

Dani:

so lemme tell you a little bit about Steven.

Ad:

Okay.

Dani:

He was in his forties when he earned a degree in public relations from the University of Idaho.

Stephanie:

Good for him.

Dani:

professor Keaton Bird said quote, he knew the value of education perhaps more than an 18-year-old freshman would. I feel that so hard? Oh, yeah.

Stephanie:

They take, I'm sure you, you know, you take it a lot more seriously.

Dani:

Steven was remembered as intelligent, confident, and kind. Professor Becky Talent said her first thought after hearing about the tack was of Matthew Shepherd. Right. Somebody brought up Matthew Shepherd in class once. She said, Steven said something like, I hope to God we've gotten past that kind of violence.

Stephanie:

Oh my God.

Dani:

And these are his. Good friend, like these professors, and they were his good friends, his colleagues, friends? Yeah. Oh my God. Jason Woods had posted the ad that Steven responded to. Prosecutors said Kelly Schneider met Steven online and arranged to meet him, Alec Lowell. Schneider pushed him down and kicked him repeatedly with steel-toed boot. Leaving him gravely injured.

Stephanie:

Oh my God. Who does that E? Exactly. And this is why, obviously I hope that I'm not giving the impression that I'm like, if you could just rob him, then they just do that and it's fine. No, I don't think it's fine. But given the motive, why are we

Dani:

kicking people with steel toed boot? Yeah, unnecessarily. I think that if you present a. If you have presented some sort of weapon, I don't

Stephanie:

think that I, it's four against one in a dark time in a place with no street light. It's pitch black out there at night and I bet you completely pitch

Dani:

black. Steven was like here.

Stephanie:

There

Dani:

was probably no reason. Reason. He would've just

Stephanie:

give. Yeah, I most people how scary. You're just wanna get

Dani:

a little something. Yeah. You're willing to pay for it. Mm-hmm. And now you're gonna beat my ass and steal the car.

Stephanie:

What

Dani:

the

Stephanie:

fuck? I'm sure that he would've been, and most people would a four against one. Unless you're a professional MMA fighter, most people are not fool hard enough to believe that they can come back with aggression towards aggression. So I, and this guy doesn't sound like the type that would've done it, even if it was one-on-one. Maybe like, no,

Dani:

let me, he's. There's more to come about. Oh my God. Deputy prosecutor Chris Boyd, said quote, he kicked him again and again. Kevin, Tracy and Daniel Hinkle hid nearby in case Snyder needed help.

Stephanie:

Mm.

Dani:

Snyder took Steven's wallet, his car keys, clothes, and debit card.

Stephanie:

Why did you need to take the clothes again?

Dani:

Why would you take the debit card? These fucking idiot.

Stephanie:

This is leading. This is leading more to just like. Hate crime with a side of money. Like I'd love to hate crime someone and get a little cash from it is what the vibes, I'm getting barefoot and

Dani:

bleeding. Steven managed to walk poor guy at half a mile to a nearby home and that's when the residents called 9 1 1. He was taken to the hospital with broken ribs and internal bleeding and he died a few hours later. No, they fucked him up. That's ridiculous. Okay, ready for idiots. Let's hear it. Snyder and Henkel later used Steven's debit card at an ATM inside Albertson's withdrawing$123.

Ad:

Mm.

Dani:

You're fucking rich. Investigators learned Snyder had lured and beaten other victims quote many, many times before. Well,

Stephanie:

what the fuck? Why is he out Okay. Maybe because people just weren't reporting and he had just maybe roughed him up a bit and not enough for them to wanna report, but this is ridiculous.

Dani:

The FBI began investigating in mid-May, whether whether the murder qualified as a hate crime, get'em. Sheriff Donahue confirmed federal agents were examining whether Steven was targeted for being gay. They're going to have to meet some pretty high standards of federal law to make that happen. To get beyond the, that robbery aspect, Donahue said under the Matthew Shepherd and James Byrd Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act of 2009 willfully causing bodily injury based on a victim's race, religion, national origin, sexual orientation, or gender identity is a hate crime. The the law is complicated. US Attorney Wendy Olson, said. We have to prove the offense occurred because of the protected status of the victim. Mm-hmm. She said prosecutors must also prove the crime affected interstate commerce. Having that extra element of providing interstate commerce can be a little bit cumbersome. She said. So with that, why does it

Stephanie:

have to affect interstate commerce? Because it's a federal crime. Oh. So then they, they have the ability to step in. Okay. Okay,

Dani:

So yes, it, in order for it to be a federal crime,

Stephanie:

they have to prove something in multiple states. Affect, yeah. Affecting it. Yeah.

Dani:

Okay. And we're gonna get a little deeper into that as we go along. Good.

Stephanie:

I'm excited'cause I don't really think about this type of stuff often. So,

Dani:

on May 21st, the group better Idaho. Delivered petitions with more than 1500 signatures to the US attorney Wendy Olson calling for federal hate crime charges. Quote, the killing of Steven should be another signal to our legislature that we need these protections, says Steve Martin of the Pride Foundation. Brian Lida with the Idaho Coalition Against Sexual and Domestic Violence said, when we push communities to the margins, we encourage people to live their lives in hiding, to seek relationships in ways that put themselves in danger.

Stephanie:

Mm-hmm.

Dani:

Fuck yeah.

Stephanie:

Yeah.

Dani:

In June, the Canyon County Prosecutor's office announced it would not pursue the death penalty because we all know that's a fucking disaster waiting to happen.

Stephanie:

It is. It really, especially with how Idaho's handled it historically, a shit show.

Dani:

Mm-hmm. Leading to years and years of appeals and freetrial and a gazillion thousand dollars of taxpayers money, and I'm not saying it's not worth it, but really we don't ultimately have to get the drugs from black Doug. Yeah. Ultimately, we're gonna end up where we end up on this, which is gonna be.

Stephanie:

A shit show for eternity and, and

Dani:

then dragging family members through that appeal process. Mm-hmm. We all know,'cause Idaho's death penalty is a shit show

Stephanie:

because we were not acting constitutionally for years and we're handing it out like candy.

Dani:

And then now yes we did. And now it's all the drug stuff. Mm-hmm. Which, it'll be interesting to see what happens now that they brought the firing squad back. I'll be very curious to see how this all folds out with the firing squad, and the death penalty to see if we see an increase in death penalty cases.

Stephanie:

Mm-hmm.

Dani:

Um, I don't think we're gonna see a decrease in crime, because it's really not a deterrent.'cause people don't, if you're

Stephanie:

doing the type of stuff that

Dani:

require, that you get the death penalty for you, don't give a fuck.

Stephanie:

That requires the death penalty now, I'll say.

Dani:

Right. No, you're not caring. No. About the death penalty? No. There's no thought process until

Stephanie:

you're caught.'cause, right. And then you care. That's always confused me about so many, and I might've said this on other episodes, but I just, I try to put myself in the shoes of people to try to understand their motives and everything. And some of these where I see these serial killers just in general, and I'm like, if I ended up getting caught and having to be in like a 23 hour solitary. I would be welcoming and encouraging the death penalty, like, that's just me. Mm-hmm. And how I am, I'd be like, absolutely. Let's go. Can we do it tomorrow? Let, let's fucking go. I would not wanna be old with diabetes and health issues in that environment with no, just how bleak it is. And

Dani:

Idaho is super, we're super, our very bleak, not good. We are in one of the, our, the Idaho Correctional Facilities. Not a good Time, are rated top 10. Worst. Worst. And the They don't give a fuck. No, they don't. And that's why Kohlberg's having such a hard time. He's

Stephanie:

like, what the hell? Mm-hmm. No. And so a few of'em do. A few of'em are like, oh my gosh. But it's I would just. If that wa if that was me, I don't wanna live that way. I'd be like,

Dani:

let's go put me to

Stephanie:

sleep forever.

Dani:

Yeah. But they fight it and fight it. And I also don't, they just have

Stephanie:

this will to live. That's so, and I think it's probably the narcissism that allowed them to fucking kill people. Oh. You know, and it's it's crazy to me to just try to reconcile that,

Dani:

but I don't. At the base of it. I don't think that the death penalty is a deterrent for these people.

Stephanie:

I don't think so either.

Dani:

and like I said, the death penalty is very gray for me. I don't know how I feel about it. Same. I don't know. I'm not opposed, I'm not against,

Stephanie:

I'm just, overall I oppose just because I know that it never plays out how you think it, it's very messy. It sounds like. Okay, now you die. It is. Always a fucking shit show. Mm-hmm. And I think for the families and the taxpayers, just, especially if you have botched attempts. Oh my God.

Dani:

wish we saw with Cree.

Stephanie:

Yes. And then you, you're welcoming in legislation that's now this is cruel. You like, it's just such an absolute pile of shit to step into for so many parties. The victims, the families, the state, the taxpayer. It's so many things. I just, I think overall, and especially with the firing squad, I find that somewhat barbaric and weird, like I truly do.

Dani:

I will say though, let me just say, I'm gonna be a little devil's advocate here for this, is because people that have had the death penalty have fought and fought and fought, getting knocked out and then getting dead. That they have kind of, um, this was the only action that the state could do to actually conduct the sentence, if that makes any sense.

Stephanie:

No, I see what you're saying. Because you've, and I'm not, no, I'm not saying

Dani:

anything bad, but I'm just saying this is where it's got, so the, the state is gonna find some way to make. This happened. It was

Stephanie:

almost ridiculous to keep imposing the sentence. Right. If we don't have a way

Dani:

to do that, we had seen that where they're, I what you're saying, they're just not gonna impose the death penalty. They're just gonna give them life in prison. Because even though by law it would qualify for the death penalty, there was judges was like, I'm not gonna give the death penalty because our prosecutors have said, I'm not gonna do this because it's just gonna drag on and on and on. Mm-hmm. So guess what we're gonna do? Just what they did with Coberg. Life, no parole, you can't even ask. You're fucked. And that's what they've been doing years and years and years. And I

Stephanie:

prefer that in Myop. That's my opinion is that I prefer that for these types of people because then they can't keep being the center of attention. They can't keep dragging people into it. Mm-hmm. Because I think that they, some pe some of them like it. Oh yeah. They like being able to get a reaction. As we know with Narcissist, I think all of us have met narcissist and they switch

Dani:

attorneys and they're They don't get MiraLax or whatever, bullshit. Oh my

Stephanie:

God. I'm constipated and it's, it's affected my constitutional rights. Yes. And so I, I just feel like it kind of shuts the book. Mm-hmm. Like, no, we're not gonna continue revisiting this. This is your sentence. I don't really care about the taxpayer money of keeping someone there for life, because I think we've seen that. How long did it take for Creech? To even get to a point of getting executed. And then how many botched attempts, how much money did that cost? So for me, that's something that I don't care about. Most of our taxpayer money goes to like fuel wars abroad. I don't really give a shit about 19 the, or whatever it is.

Dani:

The only reason that for me,'cause like I said, I'm great. I don't know if I'm against it or for it. Mm-hmm. But I also have to say some families want that. Right. And they deserve if we had

Stephanie:

an efficient, effective way and you didn't have to wait 30 years to do it. Yeah.

Dani:

But some families want that closure. Mm-hmm. And whatever feels good to I'm, no, I think, like I said, I have no opinion, but if that makes them feel better that somebody else is dead because they killed their loved one. Right then that's what they should get.

Stephanie:

And listen, I can understand, especially for some of the ones that get away away with it for 20 years. Yeah. The fact that someone was able to live their life mm-hmm. In society for 20 years after committing an atrocity and then finally goes to jail in their old age. And it's like I, I can see that not just for that specific circumstance, but I can see how that would really fucking burn, grind my gears like, yeah.

Dani:

So for me it's whatever. It's like I feel like the family should be able of the loved one. Mm-hmm. Should be able to

Stephanie:

have more say.

Dani:

And I do think they get say, but I just want whatever makes them feel

Stephanie:

a little bit better. A little, they're never gonna feel good. No.

Dani:

But if, if they wanna guide to just rot in prison for the rest of his life and no parole and they're cool with that, fine. If they want somebody to die as, as getting their say, I'm cool with that. I understand how co, and I actually, I shouldn't say it's a very complex thing. I have never, been a victim of, of that kind of tragedy in my life. Mm-hmm. So I can't speak intelligently. I can't even imagine. We

Stephanie:

can try to understand, but we'll never fully understand unless it was to happen to us. Right.

Dani:

So that same month is when the pulse nightclub shooting in Orlando happened. Oh my God. Remember that one? Yes,

Stephanie:

I do. It was horrific

Dani:

and it reignited the add the words movement in Idaho. I remember that activists said the massacre showed exactly why protections were needed for L-G-B-T-Q. People in the state. It's like 49 people were murdered, an absolute murdered

Stephanie:

massacre. Just terrible. And

Dani:

I wanna say another 58. Were were injured. Like it was horrific. Yeah. So this all was happening, which is, it's, it's to bring attention to the issue, the culture Yeah. Is

Stephanie:

important.

Dani:

The vibes at the time. Yeah. It's like, oh, we have this tragedy on top of our tragedy here in Idaho. There's another tragedy. It's like, are you look at what's happening and.

Stephanie:

Not taking that into account has an effect that you may not intend. Mm-hmm. You know, and I think it's important for cases like this where I don't know where it's going at the end, but like I told you, this seems unnecessarily cruel for no reason. If you just needed money, just rob the guy. Why? Why was he naked and beaten to death?

Dani:

On January 23rd, 2017, Kelly Schneider pled guilty to first degree murder. Mm hours later, he was charged in federal court with a hate crime. Nope. Got him. Prosecutor said he admitted he intended to rob Steven but not kill him. He acknowledged kicking Steven repeatedly and causing his death as part of the plea deal. Felony robbery, theft and conspiracy charges were dropped. Mm-hmm. he faced up to life in prison and was set for sentencing on March 20th. Okay. And just two days later, Snyder pled guilty to a federal hate crime for willful assault based on sexual orientation resulting in death. He faced up two life in federal prison, five years of supervised release. And a$250,000 fine. And his sentencing was set for April 26th.

Stephanie:

Okay. But see, note how he pled guilty to it. I feel like he knew he was, no pun intended, dead to rights. Mm-hmm. On that this was a targeted attack. and that it had some other, what's the word? Some other things behind it, you know, some other, it wasn't just to rob someone. No. There was some other intentions that, that were at play here. Yeah,

Dani:

absolutely. and so I, I can't remember if it's later in my story, so I'm just gonna say it now. so how they got this as a federal crime. Was because he used the internet

Stephanie:

genius because it's the worldwide web.

Dani:

Yes, www. It's the www, yes. Oh, I love that. So even though they said it was gonna be difficult at the beginning, the prosecutor said it would be difficult to do once you use the internet or a cell phone. Now you're interstate, your worldwide, your pit bull, Mr. Worldwide. Absolutely. I love this. On February 2nd, Jason Woods was convicted of first degree murder, robbery, conspiracy, and accepting the earnings of a prostitute. Oh yeah. He was the guy. and he, he was gone. He went to court. He went to trial.

Stephanie:

Oh, did he?

Dani:

Yeah. And that's why he has And, and, and, and, and, and and. Oh, they got him. Yeah. Oh yeah. Got him. Good. Prosecutors said Woods helped Schneider lure Steven to the lake where Schneider beat and robbed him. Woods had a disturbing history. He and his ex-girlfriend had previously set up fake sexual encounters to rob clients. According to police. Gross Woods had driven, the woman around and also. Had her perform sexual acts for money. So sometimes it was a trick, sometimes it wasn't. So we're like,

Stephanie:

that's where I just don't get, and, and why it makes the motive more clear. It's like you're not against prostitution and thinking prostitutes are bad. No. Sometimes it's okay. You are pimping out your girlfriend. Mm-hmm. Okay.

Dani:

Anyway, he admitted to dividing up the proceeds at the end of each night.

Stephanie:

Oh, how sweet.

Dani:

So fair. Prosecutors said he had quote, assembled accomplices to lure and rob prostitution clients first targeting homosexuals before deciding that gay men were easier victims because of the shame aspect that we talked about. Mm-hmm. Yeah. and that, that's really what it was, is that either if you just

Stephanie:

rob him,

Dani:

they're probably not gonna say anything. No. And even, yeah. Or even getting some, these

Stephanie:

men are married,

Dani:

you know? Yeah. They have careers that they don't wanna be, which, you know, I would like to think in 2025.

Stephanie:

No,

Dani:

it's, who cares? It's still

Stephanie:

a great risk.

Dani:

Yeah.

Stephanie:

Uh,

Dani:

to their career,

Stephanie:

to, unfortunately, some are married, which I don't really agree with the whole DL thing. But no one deserves to be murdered about it. No.

Dani:

Or even beaten, I mean the, some of these men were not even reporting, getting beaten. Mm-hmm. And robbed, not murdered, but they were beating up people and robbing them, knowing that they had a pretty high chance of just getting away with it. Yeah.

Stephanie:

Because they're not gonna say anything. They're gonna say, oh, I went to a bar. Someone tried to steal my car, and I got a little hit to their wife or family. Right. And. You know, the cops couldn't. I slipped in the parking lot on ice. Cops couldn't. Cops couldn't do much.

Dani:

Yeah.

Stephanie:

You know,

Dani:

or I slipped, forgot to lock my car. Yeah. So sad. On March 3rd, Daniel Hinkle admitted he was nearby ready to help Schneider during the attack. Mm. He carried a brass pipe that he said he would use to break Steven's car windows. Mm. So he was hiding, but he helped. he faced five years to life in prison and seven more years for violating probation in a 2015 case. Five years

Stephanie:

to life. That is such a span. Yeah. That's some of these spans that you get. I'm like, I mean, I guess that that does help you leave it open to interpretation of, you know, if someone did really do something that wasn't very harmful, but it's still strange to me.

Dani:

Yeah. It had been nearly a year since Steven died, but his family relived that night every day. His father, Edgar said quote, after 49 years, his prince and our lives and our hearts are everywhere. He told the court he woke up every night and walked that last mile with Steven. Oh my God, quote, when you think about torture. I don't know how you could inflict more torture than what has been described. He said his mother Mary missed her son's daily phone calls. His sister Connie said quote, Steven wasn't our gay brother. He was just our brother. Yeah.

Stephanie:

Oh my God. Just seeing the effect and,

Dani:

and then it's come down to a hate crime when she's just like, that's our brother. Yeah. I mean, it was a hate crime, but. She was like, we didn't view our brother in that way. He was just my bro. Yeah. Who called our

Stephanie:

mother every single day. Okay.

Dani:

Snyder sat in a yellow and white jail jumpsuit with his head down as the family spoke, judge Thomas Ryan sentenced him to life in prison with 28 years before Par he'd be eligible for parole. He said quote. He should not be released any earlier than age 60, and that may be too soon. Good for him. Yeah. Prosecutors said Schneider had a history of violence and that that group had planned similar robberies like we talked about. Mm-hmm. Schneider's defense attorney Dick Rubin, argued that Snyder's violent upbringing shaped who he became. Ruben says Snyder had been abused as a child, and that his mother was a victim of violence while his father struggled with drug addiction. Ugh, puke. Don't care.

Stephanie:

But, and listen, it's, it's just because we, we have been and have known so many people who have been through violent upbringings. I mean, look at women. What is it like 20% of women have been sexually assaulted? Are they out doing mass murders? Are they the ones out doing big crimes? No, they're not. So it's like, yes, we can hold some space for that, or whatever you want say, but there's so many people who have gone through true atrocities and no one should have to go through that. But they're not. Doing this shit like this? No. This is just a, a willful, cruel act. And it's not just to get money. If it was just to get money, you would've been a lot smarter about it. Yeah. And just gotten the money. So no, you're, you're out here to be four dudes that beat the shit out of another guy because you feel a certain type of way about that guy.

Dani:

Yep. Exactly. Yeah. His, defense attorney said also, by the time the Snyder was five, he was showing violent tendencies by nine. He was hospitalized in a psychiatric facility diagnosed with a depressive order, post-traumatic stress disorder and A DHD. And that sucks,

Stephanie:

you know,

Dani:

sorry, dude, but really,

Stephanie:

and I wish that he wouldn't have had whatever up if it was a. Na. A nurture thing versus a nature thing. Like I'm really sorry. no one deserves at the age of five. If you're doing that, I do believe that something shitty was going on in your life, but this was not the way we all have

Dani:

a story is all I'm saying. Okay. Don't get upset. I will, but Sure. Defense attorney Ruben told the court quote, just as Steven did not choose to be gay. Kelly did not choose his childhood circumstances.

Stephanie:

I don't know. I feel like this is, we've seen some people try to connect the dots these ways in the past and draw a comparison that isn't really there. Or even if it was there, it's incredibly distasteful. We're not done.

Dani:

Oh, okay. Go on. He said that a Steven's family has compassion for others. He hoped they might feel, quote, a little compassion for Kelly. No. And in what way?

Stephanie:

In what do you what? What is compassion look like to you? What are you actually asking for here? Say it. I would like the family to

Dani:

feel sorry for the guy who murdered their son and, and say

Stephanie:

that he should never spend a day in jail. Shut the fuck, because of his childhood. What are you asking the family of a murdered person to do?

Dani:

Oh, what are,

Stephanie:

what do you actually want? It makes. You wanna, that's cowardly and it's pussy ass bitch.

Dani:

Shit. And Snyder had spent time in juvenile corrections from ages 16 to 18, then state prison from 19 to 22. Institutionalized. Sure. He had been out on parole only five months when Steven was killed.

Stephanie:

And listen, there's a million things that we can also try to tie in of shit could be better here. Prisons could be better, juvenile corrections could be better, but that's never going to get you an excuse to fucking murder someone. I'm sorry. There's still room to discuss that in another avenue. I don't think that this is the place to discuss it to if you really care that much. Are you running campaigns? Are you participating in the community? Are you working for jail and juvenile reform? Are you doing that? No, because that's what we will really change it. Not trying to pull out little key buzzwords for a defendant. And I know, I know they, they've gotta do it. I know they've gotta try to present the best defense for shitty or else.'cause if they don't, if they don't try to pull out every stop. Appeal. Appeal. Appeal. Yes. Retrial. Mistrial, bullshit. Ineffective counsel. So I get it, but it's still, this is why me personally. I would not wanna be hearing this absolute bullshittery of, oh, like again and again and again for a death penalty sentence. There was this one

Dani:

time, like, yeah, sh, when given a chance to speak Snyder said, quote, I am truly sorry for the pain and suffering I put your family through. There's nothing I can ever do to make it up. Facing the judge. He said, quote, I don't think my juvenile history or the problems I went through should have any bearing on what I did almost a year ago. That's a cop out. It's an excuse. It's pure stupidity to use that to my own benefit. Wow. Wow.

Stephanie:

Surprised I would have never. And I'm not a gambling woman, but I, even if I was a gambling woman, I would've never bet that I would hear that.

Dani:

I almost feel like he was pissed off at his attorney. That

Stephanie:

was their, they're like, we're the attorneys. This is our, just trust us. This is our strategy. But he still, you know what, I will give props because it does show some actual remorse. It does. Of not going, towing the line. Right. Of saying That doesn't excuse it. That's actually, again, not excusing it. But it's, that's one of the best responses I've heard though from it. That feels like it. He had a PR team that was working against the defense, yeah. And if he actually felt that way and said it and didn't have someone telling him to say that, he's that's not an excuse. That would, that would speak volumes to me 20 years whenever he, if he was eligible, that would speak volumes of, he never tried to say.

Dani:

Poor me.

Stephanie:

Yeah. Oh, he said, no, that's a cop out. Wow. You do not typically hear that.

Dani:

No. On April 11th, Jason Woods was sentenced. Judge George Southworth called him the mastermind Prosecutor Chris Boyd said, quote, A good man's dead because of the defendant's greed. Without Jason Woods, this crime does not happen. Steven's cries of pain. His pleas for mercy are on this man's head. The judge sentenced woods to life in prison with 28 years before he would be eligible for parole. Okay. Matching Schneider's terms. Woods looked directly at Steven's family and said, quote, I am very sorry for the family's loss. I can't fathom the pain they're going through.

Stephanie:

Standard and typical, and we've heard that from people, not in,

Dani:

not near as impressed as

Stephanie:

no,

Dani:

no defense attorney, Larry Sisson said Woods was trying to turn his life around after kicking a drug habit. He said Woods who identified as a bisexual, never intended violence and wanted Kelly to perform services for Steven that would have been paid for willingly. This is another defense attorney tactic. Just bullshit. Uh, but Boyd said Woods knew exactly who Snyder was, a violent man who hated homosexuals and sent him anyway. By the way, I hate using the word homosexuals.

Stephanie:

It's just, it's what come, that's how it was written about in the time as well. I mean, and it is, I don't think it's necessarily a bad term, but

Dani:

No, it's not a bad term. I just feel like it's so formal. People.

Stephanie:

Well, and people have used it in a derogatory, derogatory way, and so, um, but I just. That's incredibly disappointing that he was quote unquote, a member of the L-G-B-T-Q community and used that. But I wonder if

Dani:

that was very convenient that he identified that way once he was in court. Or even listen,

Stephanie:

we've seen it in, or I've seen it in many different, crimes that have happened that especially. Men that are DL or that are bisexual but haven't come to terms with that, or gay that haven't come to terms with that are incredibly dangerous because they are not willing to give up the like straight man privileges, the facade that they have. Wife, kids, my laundry, stem, my meals are cooked. Yeah, I've got these kids. Cool. They're great. they're just. It creates such a burning tension of emotions that, that even adds to, to the, the fear of being exposed or anything. Right. So I wonder were you even out at this time? I'm not saying that that, you know, whatever, but it's maybe a bisexual,

Dani:

but at this time, was he telling his buddy that hated homeless? Yeah, we all these hated gay people that, No.

Stephanie:

Or was this another, I feel like one of his outlets to prove himself.'cause that's what, that's what you see, like mm-hmm. The just desire to prove yourself to other men and justify yourself and be important to other men. That trumps so much, and it's just, there's a lot of good conversation about this happening.

Dani:

Well, and Judge Southward said quote. A lot of people are raised in not the best households and turn out just fine and truly suck it up buttercup, you're a fucker.

Stephanie:

Like really? I think, I think it's good to mention it just because it shows how things are passed down, not only genetically but through the same traumas. And I think that people over the last two generations especially Yeah, are becoming more cognizant of, hey. I'm feeling this, I'm triggered by this. Should I do it the same way my parents did or should I try to find another way? Right. But it will, you don't kill about it. Never excuse. It will never excuse. So go to some therapy. Yeah, take some If you, if it's a problem you have got to and people that have a lot of money do it or don't do it. They've got all the money in the world. Yeah. And they don't do it. Yeah. And people that don't have the money find a way to do it or don't do. It's so, there's

Dani:

no excuse for not improving yourself in in today's time and just avoiding

Stephanie:

murdering people. Yeah. At the very least, can we not murder about it? Thank you. You might act out in public. You might be not the best friend. You might do some unsavory things. Just if you could please at least not murder about it

Dani:

or beat people.

Stephanie:

Thank you.

Dani:

On April 26th, chief US District Judge b Lynn Windmill, sentenced Kelly Schneider to 28 years in federal prison for that hate crime. Steven's father said quote, because he was gay, the hatred of another person was poured out upon him in a manner we cannot believe. Mm-hmm. Assistant US attorney Aaron Luso, said quote. Serious criminal punishment represents a society strong condemnation of what the offender has done. We're not accepting this anymore. Yes,

Stephanie:

and it's, IM, I think it's so important to note that kind of hatred because it isn't a random thing. It isn't a crime of passion. Like, and not saying that crime's a passion are okay, but there's. To target someone, a stranger, and to do it from just a point of you clearly think less of a, of a group that's different from you. That says a lot, and that says, I think that these types of things might affect criminals, not people that wanna kill people, but people that wanna. Be causing disturbances or not higher or you know, just, I think that it does affect the culture in the way that it's like, you can't do that. You can't do that. We're not putting up with it no more. so that's why I think it's so important.

Dani:

I the end of April. About 200 people gathered at the Knitting factory in Boise for a stand for Steven Fundraiser raising more than$5,000 for Steven Nelson Emergency Fund at Boise State University. This is great.

Stephanie:

Oh my

Dani:

gosh. The fund helps L-G-B-T-Q students who lose support when they come out. Senator Maryanne Jordan said we are fortunate that federal laws are in place. But the absence of state protections for the LGBT community is a scar on Idaho. It really is. Representative Melissa Windrow said, quote, I thought people could empathize with the facts in particular and assault and a violent attack. So

Stephanie:

yeah, not knowing anything else, can you not just say. Should someone be beaten to death for meetings like they were clearly there to rob no matter what he was there for. Right? They could all lured in there with a Craiglist scam. Yeah, sure. Sell me your tv. Yeah. Should someone, no, it's important that we know that it was, there was other things at play here,

Dani:

so, so let me tell you though, mm-hmm. In 2025, Idaho still has not added the words. There is no protection in the state of Idaho. Isn't surprising to me as a for a hate crime if for your sexual orientation. Yeah. Blew my fucking my, so you

Stephanie:

could literally stab someone and be like, I just think that you're gay and that's why I'm doing this, and that's my motive. And there's no other,

Dani:

you're not gonna get charged with a hate crime unless it's a federal hate crime, so. Mm-hmm. And luckily the Fed stepped in on this. Yes. And, and nailed them. But we don't have anything here in the state of I, which I thought for sure there there should be because it's easier in 2015. Yeah. I mean, a decade. We have gay marriage now. Like we know it's,

Stephanie:

yeah.

Dani:

It should be a protected thing. And it's even going back, I mean, even going back to Matthew Shepherd, yeah, what a tragedy that. Should encourage every state to have these protections so that we don't get these fucking narcissistic.

Stephanie:

Yeah.

Dani:

Over emasculated men thinking that they need to prove their manhood by beating somebody up who is of a different sexual orientation than them that's not

Stephanie:

doing anything to them.

Dani:

So basic like they could target in Idaho, somebody could target somebody for their sexual orientation. And beat them up just because, and they're only just gonna get an assault charge. They're when they

Stephanie:

should get something. A hate

Dani:

crime charge. I was just because I think it's

Stephanie:

to to be a little SVU here. Especially heinous. Yeah. Espec,

Dani:

you're targeting somebody. This isn't

Stephanie:

a fight because you guys had a disagreement about. Getting in line at the fair or somebody cut someone else off? No, those aren't right either. But there's something that's a general, like lighting the fire of a disagreement, these type of things. If just if if's, if are going out of your way to, to find someone that you'd like to hurt and that's fucking weird to me.

Dani:

You can get a hate crime in Idaho if you target somebody of a different race.

Stephanie:

At least have, if you decide that. I'm honestly surprised that Idaho even has that. Yeah.

Dani:

Well, truly, truly, like if you wanna beat up, uh, if you're targeting Muslim people or uh, Hispanic people, you're getting a hate crime, but you don't get a hate crime if you target gay people. Yeah. It makes no fucking sense to me. Mm-hmm. How fucking that you can just

Stephanie:

get a simple assault instead of like,

Dani:

yeah.

Stephanie:

If you're ru rooting around town and you're lifted truck looking for gay people to hit with a bat, like that's a different thing than getting in a fight with like a bar fight. Right. Over a disagreement about karaoke. That's different,

Dani:

right? It is fucking

Stephanie:

different.

Dani:

Yeah. We're not targeting people. No. Anyway, it blew my fucking mind. So still not okay. I would love to see that. Add the fucking words. Mm-hmm. And, this isn't in my story, but they tried to, in 2017 to get in front of. And pardon me if I misspeak in front of the legisl, get into

Stephanie:

like Idaho Congress or whatever. Yeah. To

Dani:

get in front of the Congress, like Legisla. Thank you. and they, even after all of this, even after Steven's murder, and this was even the pulse killing, they, they weren't allowed time.

Stephanie:

Extremely disappointing. And you know. It's one of the nuances of living here I'll say is that I think that just about everyone that comes here to Idaho really loves it for different reasons. Maybe they like the outdoors, maybe they like the sense of community.'cause there are some really good community approaches here. maybe they like the taxes. I don't know, maybe who knows what reason you're coming here. But most people that come here really do love it. However, there is the, there is the undercurrent, mm-hmm. Of just injustices and bullshittery and it affects everyone. Some people think it won't affect them, and they come here because they think a certain thing and then they move on pretty quickly when they realize that we have a lot of, a lot of struggles that. A lot of other states have, it's, it's not a perfect state by any means, but I think that people who live here do wanna make it a better place overall. And we'll just keep fighting.

Dani:

It makes me sad that we don't have those. I'm, I'm truly upset because we have pride

Stephanie:

in our

Dani:

state. Yeah. I'm very prideful to be from here, but it makes me sad that we wouldn't protect people like my dear friends that I've had in my life, from getting targeted. It makes me sad. So anyways. No, absolutely. I'm emotional.

Stephanie:

It's, listen, I didn't think

Dani:

I was gonna, I was pissed when I was writing it, and now I'm emotional just. Listening to you talk and just having more of a thought process instead of research. Research, but it's a

Stephanie:

constant fight. Yeah. You know?'cause like we said, we're proud. Yeah. We're proud of our community that we've built. We're proud of our neighbors. We love each other. And then how

Dani:

hard is it to fucking add those words? Like there is very, it

Stephanie:

isn't is the thing. And that's what makes it so much more infuriating. Yeah. It's like, why can't we do that? It isn't, we can. How fast did we rush through the firing squad? Very fast. Few days, few weeks. Oh yeah. And now we have all this and we're building it like we're

Dani:

building tax. As soon as Brian Berger killed those poor fucking kids up there, they're like, build it. We we're passing this off. We now

Stephanie:

have unlimited funds and unlimited means to do whatever the fuck we want, but we can't add the words for hate crime people. Yeah. That fucking pisses me off that, and that's it made me emotional. I think you summed it up perfectly and you showed that it's just. It's incredibly disappointing. Yeah. For something that we're passionate about. Yeah. And it sucks, but this is where we live and we have a lot of things to be proud of and a lot of things to continue to work on because yeah. Fuck that shit.

Dani:

Yep. So let's get to these, where these guys are at now.

Stephanie:

Oh.

Dani:

Kevin Tracy is now 30 and he was released in 2000. That's wild. 2017 on probation. His probation ends, in April of 2027. Daniel Hinkle is 32 and was just released on parole in 2024. His probation ends, He got a probation kids. His probation ends in April of 2036.

Stephanie:

At least. There's a good amount of supervision and he'll probably

Dani:

fuck that up. I, I don't know how, listen, kudos to these people that can be on, on parole for 10 plus years, never drink. Mm-hmm. Being

Stephanie:

around people who are drinking. You can, yeah. A roommate.

Dani:

Yeah. I. Can't smoke. Well, it's not legal to smoke the marijuana in Idaho anyways, but you can't even get a little, you can't even go have a little gummy to sleep like, yeah. so he'll probably fuck that up. Jason Woods is 38 and is in custody at the Idaho State Correctional Center F Block. He'll be eligible for parole in 2034. I always like to throw in the blocks when I find them, because then I like to refer to it with other criminals. Like who's, yeah, who else, who's, who's your body, bro?

Stephanie:

Who's on your block, honey? Yeah, I like that.

Dani:

and Kelly Schneider is currently 32 in a federal prison in Colorado called USP, Florence Ad Max.

Stephanie:

This is a bad one.

Dani:

It is. Let me, is this,

Stephanie:

I think they had Chapo there,

Dani:

a Supermax prison. They

Stephanie:

had El Chapo there. I'm pretty sure I'm gonna tell

Dani:

you the list of prisoners there. Uh, a Supermax prison. I went on a fucking, this is my Wikipedia part by the way. Thank you. I went on, I was like, are you fucking kidding me? So Supermax prison, AKA, the Alcatraz of the Rockies. Mm-hmm. It is known for extreme isolation. With inmates confined to soundproof cells 23 hours a day. So you can't even shout to your friends. No. Through the

Stephanie:

vents, through the doors, you are by yourself with your fucking thoughts. You cannot communicate with anyone.

Dani:

Um, famous inmates or infamous inmates include El Chapo. Thank you. I'm so glad a number one. Ted Kozinski.

Stephanie:

No shit.

Dani:

The Boston Marathon Bomber.

Stephanie:

Lots of terrorists are here, aren't they?

Dani:

Terry Nichols from the Oklahoma City bombings. Yep. The shoe bomber.

Stephanie:

Tara REOs.

Dani:

Yeah.

Stephanie:

This is crazy. I'm glad. I'm glad he is there. Fucking not.

Dani:

I know, I know. Uh, anyway, I was just really surprised. I was like. Okay. Oh, okay. Super blah, blah, blah. And I was like, oh my God, the inmates, he's in there. Fuck yeah. And so, you know what? He's a fucking peon in there, by the way. He doesn't even have little, not

Stephanie:

even

Dani:

any

Stephanie:

cred.

Dani:

No. No cred. No cred. You're like, uh, we got Ted in here. Oh my God, the boss Literally, literally El Chapos here. Yeah. You thing the shoe, like, we don't get, you're some little. Pid like,'cause you know, some of these guys just, they're respected for their fucking,

Stephanie:

so some of these folks, so like El Chapo, I'm sorry, this is not to give props or anything. Right. That was a multi-billion dollar business.

Dani:

Right.

Stephanie:

And from not, he was not given it by his parents. He wasn't given a million dollar loan. He wasn't given anything. He built this, he grew this. Yes, it's a terrible fucking business, but. To be able to not only get that level of control and business, but he was, for the most part, in some places locally loved because he was also giving back to communities. I'm not saying he wasn't violent, but he did. He did things that people even, even that could have been hurt by his practices. They still liked him.

Dani:

I'm feeling like somebody like El Chapo, Ted Kazinski, they're probably getting a little bit more care than some fucking idiot that murdered a gay person. Mm-hmm. I'm just saying like, I bet you there's different levels of respect. Respect. Well, I'm

Stephanie:

sure they all, they all have fan clubs and no one has a, I don't, I think not many people have a fan club for our suspect for people here. People, yeah. No, our criminal here.

Dani:

No, they got you on. Way to use the internet motherfucker.

Stephanie:

Federal charges. Good for you. Let's just give it a,

Dani:

because our state couldn't do it, so, uh, thank you. Yeah. So Schneider's release date from federal prison is in 2052. We'll see what happens after that. Steven partner, Steven's family said they would never stop walking that mile with him. His death became one of the most brutal hate crimes in Idaho's history. Kelly Snyder and his accomplices will spend decades behind bars. But the hate that killed Steven didn't die with him. He had no, it didn't. No. And there is still that, organization that, is raising money for people who are coming out. And they, they were helping, they said about two students a year that became like, homeless. Homeless because they came out. Mm-hmm. which is a fan. I mean, that's a fantastic organi. And, and they said it doesn't take long, like they're just helping them get stable. Yeah. And then these, yeah. These people are picking up their lives. They just need help on the short term. oh my God, I'm homeless, which we know can lead. You don't have a home. You got a lot of problems. Especially

Stephanie:

as a college student. Yeah, as a teenager. Yeah. If you thought you were gonna have that support. And what I'll say is, this is a lesson that I learned later in life that I think that people should, is you choose your family. You have your family. Yes. And you can choose whatever amount of loyalty you wanna give. Sometimes that will hurt you though. Yeah. People in your family can be toxic. And I hate when people keep incredibly toxic members. Especially like the older generation is like, oh, it's just Uncle Bob. You know? He's just a molester of everyone in the family. But we just still like that type of shit. Fucking infuriates me. And so I think it's so ingrained in us that your family is your family. And if someone isn't born into your family, like yes, they might be your best friend, but they're not your family. I don't think that's the case. And that hasn't been the case in my experience. And so to just urge anyone out there, you can choose your family.

Dani:

Mm-hmm.

Stephanie:

And you know the people that are gonna really ride for you. And if you come out and people are willing to drop you like that, especially your own parents that birthed you, that's a them problem. Yeah. 1000%. So how great. Seek out and try to find good allies, good friends. It can be a tough road too. You know, everyone has their own motives and whatever, but. When you find your family, do what you can and keep that family.

Dani:

And family's not always blood. No,

Stephanie:

not exactly what I'm saying. Yes. Okay. Not at all.

Dani:

Well, this episode has me emotionally wrecked, so can we go cry about your mom? I know. I'm so fucking upset. And I was just like, like I said, just very disappointed that we have not added the words yet. Yeah. And that, and actually I was kind of disappointed in myself that I didn't know that. I assumed that there was, and I'll say I did too. State protections. For, I

Stephanie:

remember the movement. Yeah. And I, you know that we're still

Dani:

not there. Fucking T this is 2025. Jesus.

Stephanie:

And it's I, I, if anyone wants to say that, that's not something that could cause a targeting on a specific demographic of people. I think you've gotta be outta your mind. Yeah. Like that's ine It's just one of those arguments that I wouldn't even dane to, to participate in because I'm, you're gonna tell me there's not people out there that would target gay people. Fat mouth. Well, are you living on the same planet? Right. That we're living. So I think it's, I'll end with this is. Yeah. It's one of those things where I think we're so emotional because it's so disappointing for our state.

Dani:

Yeah.

Stephanie:

Yep. But I think there's still hope, and I do. And I think that you have to have hope.

Dani:

You have to have hope,

Stephanie:

and you've gotta do things in your everyday life that help change people's minds, that knock people down when they're doing bullshit things or demonstrating really shitty things to other people. Those type of things mean more because I, I know that I am the type of person where I'm like, God, I just wish I could flip a switch, right? And be like, no, it's the law now. Or No, this has changed now. There's so much that the important work is done on the front lines and you can support these legislative changes. But even, even if a legislator was to say, no, this is the law now. This is the law now, if you don't. Have the societal and cultural change, it wouldn't matter. I don't, I don't think it would have any impact. So just know that what you accept and what you don't accept says a lot, and your family doesn't always have to be blood led, and you can choose your family.

Dani:

One more party note, tell

Stephanie:

me

Dani:

please, if you're feeling like. If you wanna help, please reach out and search for, stand for Steven for that. Um,

Stephanie:

for the fund to help?

Dani:

Yeah, for the fund to help the. The students at BSU that are coming out. They're coming out. So go check it out. Please do, do they're, they're still doing, they were coming up, still having fundraisers and my research, I couldn't tell the youth the last time that they did, like they're doing concerts and stuff, so I can't tell you the last time there was one. I didn't write that down. I should have a

Stephanie:

great cause Yeah, to get done, but you can

Dani:

definitely go find it. So anyways.

Stephanie:

Thanks for listening you guys. Um, I'm gonna need

Dani:

a hug after this one. Steph.

Stephanie:

We need a big hug because what a roller coaster of angry and sad and what the fuck? And Steven, so uner, undeserved and just unnecessary. Completely unnecessary what? Brutal,

Dani:

ignorant, what Tragic loss people. Yep.

Stephanie:

So anyway. Fuck y'all that had anything to do with that. Um, I don't really care that if you're up for parole or anything. No, I hope that you don't act that way again, but I think you should all rot and that's just my personal opinion. but thank you guys for listening. Thank you for being with us for spooky season. once again, of course, if you have any feedback or you wanna get in contact with us, you can reach out to the Lethal library@gatgmail.com. we've got a TikTok, Instagram, Facebook. Of course you can reach out there. We've got our silly little Halloween TikTok that we'd love you to watch.

Dani:

That's pretty cute. Mm-hmm. We love to do the ticky talkers. We love it. Try to entertain. Besides, doing our research, it's kind of a little fun release. It brings us

Stephanie:

a little bit of brightness. Yeah. In all of this, shittiness. So,'cause we talk about a lot of sad things, heavy subjects. you might hear some PSAs moving forward at the end of our episodes just'cause we think it's important to touch on the type of really sticky subjects that we have and provide resources. So, upcoming, you'll hear that. Otherwise. Danny, thank you for doing the work and the research on this episode. That was obviously very challenging. And any last thoughts?

Dani:

I'm just sad, right?

Stephanie:

thanks again guys. Have a great week. Have a good night week.

Dani:

Love you. Bye bye.

Hey friends, just checking in to say that we all struggle sometimes. mental illness is more common than most people realize. One in five adults in the US experience it every year. Anxiety, depression, bipolar These aren't signs of weakness. They're health conditions that deserve treatment and compassion, just like diabetes or heart disease. If you're struggling, you don't have to do it alone. The 9 8 8 suicide and crisis hotline is available 24 7. Call or text nine eight eight to connect with trained crisis counselors who will listen and help you through tough moments. Veterans can press one after dialing 9, 8, 8. To connect directly with the Veterans Crisis line for young people. The Trevor Project offers 24 7 support for lgbtq plus youth. Call 1 8 6 6 4 8 8 7 3 8 6 Or text start 2, 6 7, 8. 6, 7, 8. Remember, asking for help is not a weakness. It is an act of strength. You matter and recovery is possible.

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Dani

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Stephanie

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