The Lethal Library

44. Blood on the Highway: The Turner-Gaylor Tragedy

• The Lethal Library • Episode 44

Share episode

n this wild and tragic tale from Idaho and Utah, Dani and Stephanie unravel the chaotic and heartbreaking story of Natalie Turner, her ex-husband John Ock, and Natalie's fiancé, David Gaylor. A dramatic custody battle over two children escalates into a bitter war that spills into gunfire, leaving Natalie dead, John critically injured, and David facing serious charges. Tune in for an episode filled with courtroom drama, poor decisions, and the devastating consequences of a custody war gone terribly wrong. With dark humor and a touch of sarcasm, our hosts navigate this mess, reminding everyone to keep cool during divorces and, seriously, don't bring a gun 'just in case.'

Contact The Lethal Library at TheLethalLibrary@gmail.com. Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok!

Dani:

A bitter custody war turned into bloodshed on a Utah highway, two counties, guns and a family torn apart. Yikes. By the time the shooting stopped, 31-year-old, Natalie Turner was dead. Her ex-husband, John Ock, was bleeding from two gunshot wounds and her fiance was in jail. It started with a fight over two children. And ended with two funerals.

Stephanie:

welcome back to the Lethal Library. I am Stephanie and I'm tan. And today we're back with another true crime tale out of Idaho. I don't know much about this one. I know that it did happen in a different state, but the folks involved are Idahoans. So Danny, what are we in store for today?

Dani:

This is, it's a, it's a lifetime movie. What you're gonna hear today. Really? Yeah. Okay. You're just like, how does this even happen? sources used, today are articles from the Salt Lake Tribune, the park record, and the Daily Spectrum, all Utah Papers. I picked this up though from just an Idaho paper, but mm-hmm. I went straight to the source on this and figured they had, and they did have a lot more. The

Stephanie:

local papers are always gonna have all the tea.

Dani:

So this case is, a mess. Yeah, it sounds like mess. It's a nasty look. It's a nasty, nasty divorce with nasty, nasty custody battles and it just turns tragic. This is why you gotta keep your heads on, ladies and gentlemen, when you are getting a divorce because you can fly off the rails and Yeah, and then it's, it's tragic. So. David and Shauna Turner of Ogden, Utah were locked in a new legal battle with their former son-in-law, John Pooch. I'm gonna butcher that name. I'm gonna butcher it the whole way through. I have listened to the pronunciation like 20 times, and I'll probably say it wrong through the whole thing, so apologies. Now, the. The legal battle was over their grandchildren. On September 8th, 2003 fourth district Judge Donald Iyer signed a protective order granting temporary custody of a 7-year-old boy and a 4-year-old girl to their father. Members of the Pooching Oak family drove to Haley, Idaho to retrieve them from their maternal grandmother's home. The Turner's vowed to fight quote absolutely. Until my last breath, David Turner told reporters, he's the grandfather. It's, you're gonna see, it's like this, just, this mess just continues. Things escalate. I'm sensing. Yeah. Yes. The Turners claimed that they had been the children's primary caregivers since August 8th, 2003, and that removing them would cause emotional harm. John Poach still recovering from two gunshot wounds beneath his heart and through his liver.

Stephanie:

Damn

Dani:

argued the children needed stability and protection. The children are both registered for school in the Wasatch County area. And to the best of my knowledge, they're not attending any type of school since the Turners have commandeered them, his filing read. And so the Turners

Stephanie:

are his in-laws? Ex in-laws. Ex in-laws. So grandma and grandpa from children's mother? Yes. Okay. Just making sure I'm correct. So the grandparents

Dani:

are Natalie Turner's, who is now deceased parents. Okay. So.

Stephanie:

Hmm. Very. It's, it's already a mess.

Dani:

It's already a mess. Yeah, because I'm not, well, I know, but I mean,

Stephanie:

I don't know.

Dani:

You dunno why they had the children to begin with. Okay, so we're gonna get into it.

Stephanie:

We'll get there

Dani:

October, 2003. The Turner's petitioned second district court in Ogden for guardianship. Asserting that there's daughter's death and John's ongoing recovery made them the proper custodians'cause he's recovering from those gunshot wounds. And I can,

Stephanie:

I don't know the story yet, so my insight might be wrong here, but if I was the parent recovering in the hospital of a nasty divorce with my partner, I would not prefer my partner's parents to be. I mean, I thi I think that's just kind of how it goes, you know? So,

Dani:

to quote Mrs. Doubtfire, there're is goddamn kids too. Yeah.

Stephanie:

Like I'm healing in the hospital. You don't get to just as they said, commander, the kids. We'll see if I feel the same as the story goes on, but.

Dani:

John Counter filed for a restraining order saying that he feared for the children's quote, physical, emotional, moral, and mental health and safety. His attorney, Rick Green, wrote that David Turner had allowed Natalie's fiance, David Gayler, a convicted sex offender to live under the same roof as the minors. Mm. So the child's mother's boyfriend, fiance, fiance, Was a convicted sex offender. Don't love that. And so he's saying, you know, it, it is with the Turner's, the Turner's approval, despite the fact that Gaylor was a convicted child molester and a registered sex offender in California and Idaho,

Stephanie:

multi-state sex. I'm sorry. I don't, I don't like that one bit. No. So he is like, yeah, no. And if, and if she's deceased and they were never married.

Dani:

Hm.

Stephanie:

I don't know how long they were together, but who the hell's this dude? Right? He's not family, right? Why are you letting a convicted? Yeah. Sex offender, stepdad doesn't need to be anywhere in the equation. In my opinion.

Dani:

By late fall that year, both sides agreed to stay away from each other. Good. The judge converted the protective order into a mutual restraining order and affirmed that John held sole custody. Okay. We thought that everybody was acting in good faith and John is pleased Green told the park record. After that hearing, the Turner's withdrew their guardianship request, but soon filed a new motion seeking visitation rights. The minor children have a substantial relationship with the Turners and the loss or cessation of that relationship is likely to cause harm. Their attorney, Sharon s Sipes, wrote, they asked for alternating weekends, holiday visits, birthdays, and two summer weeks. This is like full on split custody,

Stephanie:

like with another parent. Yeah. Yeah.

Dani:

they're a therapist. Gregory Mayer supported that request quote, I find no reason to consider the Turner's inappropriate to have visitation rights with their grandchildren from the point of view of their psychological status he wrote to the court. So these guys are, they're pulling out all the stops. Sounds like it. Yeah, they're they're going full on. Yep. The children's therapist disagreed. Although my general opinion is that grandparents add to the enrichment and positive relational experience in a child's life, I believe the circumstances do not warrant the rights of visitation for these particular grandparents. She wrote,

Stephanie:

she said, mm, yeah, but not these ones, though.

Dani:

She said Currently the children are carrying a dual concept of John, their father. Mm-hmm. One based on hearsay. And the one on their own experience. What I take from that is grandma and grandpa talking shit.

Stephanie:

Oh yeah.

Dani:

Major shit about Dad.

Stephanie:

Oh yeah. And there's probably, there's gotta be documented or evidence. For the children's therapist to say this. Yeah, link. They had to have brought something up.

Dani:

Normally, yes. Say grandparents are good, but these grandparents, they'd be talking mad shit. Yeah.

Stephanie:

But Nana says that my dad's a shithead. Exactly. Like, you know, whatever it is. And that's honestly to be a child in this type of situation, I've kind of been there before in like weird divorce and fighting parent times and it's. I think to involve children and talk to a child and try to get them on their, your side, even if you're in the right, even if it's true what you're saying about the other, it fucks with you as a kid. So I'd much rather parents just shut the fuck up. I mean, yeah, unless it's something like, you know, well daddy did try to stab mommy 36 times. Like maybe, you know, you could be like, it's not safe or whatever, but. The drama of, oh, your mom this and, oh, your dad, this and this, child support, and then to have the grandparents

Dani:

feeding into that. Yes. It's just, it's not healthy.

Stephanie:

Try to keep it if, if anyone's going through a weird divorce, try to not involve your kids and then they're babies. Be aware that as they grow, if you are in the right. They will learn that on their own and they need to learn it on their own if that's the case,

Dani:

because they can become defensive of the parent that's being put put down and then it's gonna because they love their parents, right? Yeah. It's so right to love their parents regardless. Mm-hmm. Of how shitty a parent can be, not your business.

Stephanie:

Kids will learn though. Mm-hmm. As they grow, even if that, they will learn their parents' flaws on both sides, so you don't need to do it for them. They will come to what conclusions they can and just focus on your own relationship because it's fucked up to include your kid in the drama.

Dani:

The hearing stretched into mid 2004. Damn. This is ongoing long process. A lot of fuckery happening. John told the court that the children have been traumatized by misinformation. It was also clear to me that the children had been misinformed or inappropriately introduced to facts regarding the case. Their mother and me, his affidavit read. He said that they had suffered fear for his welfare and needed routine, not litigation

Stephanie:

Well, and she is deceased at this point, right? Mm-hmm. So that, I mean, I can imagine he's in a weird situation of like. You're hearing all this about me no matter what the situation is, whoever's right or wrong, they're already missing a parent. She's

Dani:

dead. Yeah. And

Stephanie:

so even if she was wrong, what are you gonna speak on? Their dead mother?

Dani:

Well, I, this is all coming from the grandparents. He's fighting for the grandparents wanting, you know, they're, they're asking for visitation. Well, first custody. And then, yeah, some attorney probably said that shit's never gonna happen. So not let's go to the next thing, which is visitation rights. But they're asking for like. Normal. Well, what I grew up with, like normal split custody every other weekend. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the Turner's maintained that contact was in the children's best interest. We're trying to do what's best for our grandkids. David Turner set outside of the courthouse. They requested phone calls, notification of school events, and the chance to celebrate birthdays. That's a little bit more reasonable. And John's attorney argued that while John was open to the occasional visits, structured court ordered time was not appropriate.

Stephanie:

And I feel like that too, because as a parent, I mean, I think we all have one problematic family member at least. Like what if your sibling, your brother, your sister, wanted to do this? And yes, typically it does enrich a child's life. But what if you're like, I'm sorry. No. Like my weird ass brother. Isn't gonna get court ordered or if you have a toxic parent, like to be court ordered for as a parent for your kid to see anyone is That's not the other parent. Parent. Yeah, the other parent. Sure. Anyone else? Who the fuck's gonna tell me that I have to take my kid anywhere? Like that's weird to me. Well, what his attorney

Dani:

said, this is golden. I love this. His attorney said John will do what's in the best interest of his children.

Stephanie:

Yeah. So like, yeah, I'm, we can consider visitation, but I'm not going to be court ordered. Court ordered court. So

Dani:

quit fucking this up for yourselves because that's how I would be, I mean, like, you are just making this way harder for me to even let them see you. Yeah. You know, come spend a week with you in the summer and you know, hang out on birthdays. Yeah. Like, you're making it so awkward.

Stephanie:

Creating a total shit show.

Dani:

The dispute revealed how much pain remained beneath the surface. There's a lot of healing that needs to be done, said guardian ad litem, Sharon Kushner, who had represented the children since the shootings.

Stephanie:

The shootings.

Dani:

By late 2004, both sides were exhausted. The Turner's petition for visitation remained under review. The children were settled in Wasatch County schools, and John was slowly rebuilding his health and his construction business. For the court, the matter was routine for the families. It was the last echo of a custody war that had already cost lives. So this

Stephanie:

shit's been fucked up

Dani:

for a while. And I'm gonna tell you my research, I just think it kind of went away. I couldn't find either, they weren't reporting on it. I don't know what the final outcome of that, but they were exhausted. And this was a big case over there at this time. Yeah. If it's in the press. but I, I didn't see any resolution to this, so, and sometimes, you know, things just fizzle out. Everybody's exhausted. So I just wanted to let you know I did look, I didn't see anything.

Stephanie:

Okay.

Dani:

All right. So I started out. With the ending. Mm-hmm. Let me tell you why they got, how did we get here exactly?

Stephanie:

Yeah.

Dani:

On the night of August 8th, 2003, a four hour drive from Haley, Idaho ended in gunfire outside Park City, Utah, around 6:30 PM. Neighbors in the Deer Mountain estate subdivision called dispatch to report gunfire at a long home belonging to 50-year-old John Ock. The property six miles east of Park City was one of several luxury cabins built by John's own company.

Stephanie:

Mm-hmm.

Dani:

Natural choice construction. Witnesses told dispatchers that after several shots rang out, three people left the home in a silver Mitsubishi and sped towards State Route 2 48, Utah Highway Patrol. Sergeant Dan Rosenheim described what officers found we located blood at the residence. He said around that time officers observed a vehicle matching the description, leaving the area at a high rate of speed.

Stephanie:

Hmm.

Dani:

Don't

Stephanie:

be suspicious

Dani:

as the The blood. Yeah. Yeah. Killer Racing car gunshots. A Summit County Deputy and a Division of Wildlife Resources officer joined the pursuit. The car accelerated down Browns Canyon Road topping 85 miles an hour. They had that thing pedal to the metal, and I kind of, I'm thinking Browns Canyon Road. It's probably a little windy. Yeah. A Utah Highway Patrol trooper followed them behind them. So now we got three in pursuit.

Stephanie:

Yeah.

Dani:

When the vehicle finally stopped, officers could see movement inside. Quote, they could see a struggle going on between two passengers. Rosenhan said, commands were issued, but the struggle continued. Two shots went off inside the car. Oh my gosh. Then the passenger door opened. What can you imagine? And they're, are they moving or stopped at this point? They, they've stopped. Oh my gosh. 31-year-old Natalie Turner stepped outta the car, bleeding from the head and holding a 3 57 caliber revolver. Oh shit. Natalie ignored commands to drop the weapon. She raised the gun towards the three law enforcement officers that were about 45 feet away. The Summit County deputy fired a shotgun loaded with buckshot and the wildlife officer fired once with a 40 caliber handgun. The highway patrol trooper held this fire Turner, fell to the shoulder of the road. The revolver landed beside her medics pronounced her dead at the scene.

Stephanie:

Oh, this is not good. What in the fuck was going on in that car? And just. And you just listen. You can't take a da, you can't take a candy bar outta your pocket. If the police are pointing weapons at you, you certainly can't point an actual gun and listen, I, you just can't, like, that's no go you, you could sneeze wrong in a certain, you know, some officers have no fucking self control and. So yeah. Point pointing a gun, it's, it's never gonna end well.

Dani:

Inside the car officers found Turner's ex-husband John, slumped in the backseat with two gunshot wounds to his torso. Oh, oh, no shit. One beneath the heart, another through the liver. He was conscious but losing blood. This is wild. The driver 31-year-old David Gayler of Haley was pulled from the car and arrested without incident.

Stephanie:

Who the hell are you?

Dani:

David? Officers from Summit and Wasatch County tried piecing together. What happened? The car was riddled with bullet holes and streaked with blood. Yeah. What's happening in this fucking car inside? I'm not smiling. I'm smiling because like really? What a fucking mess, right?

Stephanie:

Yeah. Botched, whatever the hell anyone was trying to do, it did not go to plan. This is not

Dani:

working out. No. Inside were the spent shell casings from a 3 57 revolver and signs of a violent struggle. Detectives from both counties examined where the jurisdiction lines divided The evidence quote, the crime scene spanned two counties, said Sheriff Dave Edmonds. We had to work together from the start. Utah Highway Patrol Troopers logged the position of every casing, measured the distances between the cars and collected the revolver for ballistics hospital officials confirmed that John underwent emergency surgery through the night. He had been shot twice with the bullets passing just under his heart, but through his liver, and the other one went through his liver.

Stephanie:

Gnarly

Dani:

surgeons removed fragments and repaired internal damage. He was listed critical, but expected to survive. Here we go.

Stephanie:

Yeah, let's what in the hell happened

Dani:

long before the gun fire? The relationship between Natalie Turner and John had already begun to collapse under years of mistrust and courtroom strain. Their marriage once looked ideal. Turner, born and raised in Utah. Graduated from Weber State University at 19 with Woman of the Year honors 19. Smart as hell. She met John through her work at an advertising firm in the early nineties. He was nearly 20 years older. He was a Park city home builder, known for his log cabin craftsmanship. He also was, did gourmet cooking and poetry.

Stephanie:

Yeah, sounds ideal. Both of them.

Dani:

They married on June 5th, 1993 in Deer Valley. Friends remembered it as a lavage and picturesque wedding.

Stephanie:

I bet. I mean, he's a home builder. She's smart as hell, like probably has some Did you say what job she had? Did she have a job? I don't know.

Dani:

She was working at an advertising firm. Oh,

Stephanie:

that sounds like money.

Dani:

And afterward they honeymooned Paris. For several years, the couple appeared happy they had a son and a daughter, but the strain of raising two small children and running their businesses began to show. By 1998, they were arguing over finances. John accused Natalie of taking on excessive debt through her business, herbs for help on Main Street in Park City. You know this Is she, she if it's in Park City?

Stephanie:

Yeah.

Dani:

He said she forged his name on loan documents and credit applications. Oh, in fact, read his 2000 a affidavit. Natalie had forged my name on numerous bank documents, credit card applications, contracts, letters, and the like, and I was being contacted by her creditors as though I was personally liable for those debts.

Stephanie:

Well, if you're married, you kind of are.

Dani:

I know. Oh, she accused him of physical abuse and emotional cruelty. In an affidavit DA dated October 30th, 2000, she wrote that the couple had separated that August quote. At that time, John had physically attacked me. She stated, John has contacted hotels to find out if I've made reservations. He's contacted local law enforcement agencies and disparaged me. Police were called to the home more than once on domestic disturbance reports, but no criminal charges were ever filed. Natalie filed a protective order on August 25th, 2000, alleging that John had assaulted her and dragged her from the house in front of their son.

Stephanie:

This is a nasty divorce. Uh, yeah. I'm not liking it. Clearly, very toxic.

Dani:

The divorce process began the following month and stretched into 2001. Both parents accused the other of being unfit. Court records show multiple evaluations by psychologists and social workers. One evaluator wrote, unfortunately, John and Ms. Turner's mutual animosity has caused them to spend the majority of the last two years throwing mud rather than working together to raise their children. Yikes. Still both were found to be adequate parents except for the mud singing and calling,

Stephanie:

but they're, they're just digging in both of them, it sounds like. And I've, I've seen that. I've done that. Not in a, I've never had like a. This episode brought to you by our big, what's our biggest fan? What? Come, come on in, Adam, which way should I go? So I don't, whichever you want. Come say what you need to say. Round of applause. For our biggest fan, Adam. Adam is one of our biggest fans. You know what, Adam? Have a seat.

Dani:

Hey, say what you need to say. Have

Adam:

a seat. I don't even really have a whole lot to say. I just wanna say, uh. I don't even know. You put me on the spot. You're not on yourself on the spot. Hey, you call me. I made it happen. Do you hear any noise? No,

Stephanie:

it was, you quieted it down. Adam

Dani:

did. Quiet it down because this was brought to you by drunk boys in the garage. Uh,

Stephanie:

none of the men in our lives have inside voices, and so when they're all together, absolutely not. Absolutely not as you, I'm gonna have to edit the phone.

Adam:

This Hey, I'm just saying,

Stephanie:

he said the,

Adam:

Hey. Yeah, I'm looking at you motherfuckers. Hey, thank you for allowing me to be up here, ladies.

Stephanie:

Cheers. Best our

Adam:

biggest fan. Cheers. I am your biggest fan. This is pretty awesome. I hope this makes Cut. It's gonna make it

Dani:

TikTok,

Adam:

I think. Yeah. And I would like a little more shout outs to the number one fan. You know, all y'all, we have done it before. I only had one and I'm the only one that this is all the episodes. So I would like to that you know. You know what?

Stephanie:

How about this, Adam, you get a lethal library tattoo. We'll shut you out every single episode.

Adam:

A lethal library tattoo.

Stephanie:

Walking billboard advertising.

Adam:

I don't

Stephanie:

know,

Adam:

man, that I, you know, are you the number one fan or are you not? I'll sleep on it. Okay. I'll sleep on it. I, I think I can put like a little ll somewhere.

Dani:

Yeah. Have you seen our shield? It's pretty cute.

Adam:

Did you

Dani:

say

Adam:

it right here? Yeah.

Stephanie:

On my, on your your, on your

Adam:

what? You're not

Stephanie:

putting my, on your, on your, on your what?

Adam:

A doula. Ob No, I do not have a tattoo on my, a doula ob motherfucker. No, that's not happening. I'm sweating. You know what a nice try though. You guys kick ass. I love this show. Everybody should love this fucking show. If you don't like me saying, fuck you, fuck you, you don't deserve even listen to this shit.

Stephanie:

You heard it here first. Folks, if you, if you like it, great. If you don't fuck you.

Adam:

Yep. And I'm gonna say it right now. Live on air. I miss the rubber ducky and the fuck. Yeah. All right. I miss that shit.

Stephanie:

Let's throw it back in for Adam. Throw it back in that

Adam:

shit. Throw it

Dani:

back for Adam. I

Adam:

miss it.

Stephanie:

Throw it back for Adam. Can I get a high five for that? All right.

Adam:

Oh fuck.

Stephanie:

Be

Adam:

gentle with the Danny. I'm sorry I made a rock. Ugh. Get outta the studio.

Stephanie:

Time is

Adam:

up. We love you guys. Thank you for having me.

Dani:

Bye brother.

Adam:

You guys, the shit is awesome.

Dani:

Everybody listen. Thank you. Thank you, Adam. You're gonna end up on TikTok. Oh, well, I need a smoke break. I'm sweating

Stephanie:

this episode. Brought to you by our biggest fan. Adam, thank you for this special guest visit. Oh, get out.

Dani:

I'm fucking sweating. So bad. one evaluator wrote. Unfortunately, John and Ms. Turner's mutual animosity has caused them to spend the majority of the last two years throwing mud rather than working together to raise their children. Still, both were found to be adequate parents.

Stephanie:

So they are both capable parents. They just hate each other. They are just really digging in to fuck the other one over is what it sounds like. Kinda. And this is like a third party being like, yeah, you both have financially and parentally can parent children, but y'all are being wild.

Dani:

Yeah. Quit hating your ex so bad. They're gonna be in your lives. For the giving up. There's gonna be weddings, never even mind, like graduations and stuff. There's gonna be weddings, grandchildren's grandkids. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Get over it. So after the divorce, Natalie moved to Haley, Idaho. Where she became the executive director of the Haley Chamber of Commerce. She said the position allowed her to balance work with parenting. John stayed in Park City'cause that's where they lived. Mm-hmm. Expanding his construction business and working on homes in the posh Deer Mountain Estates development. Oh, very posh. He, these, these guys have money.

Stephanie:

Yeah. Well, a home builder and he's the, I mean, and she's in advertising agencies or whatever like.

Dani:

Well, now she's the director of the whole. Yeah, the whole chamber. And Hayley is

Stephanie:

B isn't, is it close to Sun Valley? Yeah. So for those that don't know, sun Valley is the place to be. If you're a millionaire, billionaire, mark Zuckerberg, several celebrities. Aaron Paul, Idaho native played, who on Breaking Bad, what's his name? Jesse.

Dani:

Mm-hmm.

Stephanie:

Breaking Bad. He has a gorgeous cabin there that was featured on the Architectural Digest. I want it.

Dani:

and also Bruce Willis and Yes, very, I'm not sure if it's right daily. And they do,

Stephanie:

they, they do like a conference there every year where everyone brings their private jets to do this like tech conference. Yeah, very

Dani:

bge. So, but this distance reignited the legal war. Oh, I bet John argued that Natalie's relocation violated their custody agreement and limited his visitation and the court agreed.

Stephanie:

I think that's, that is fair. And I, four hours is far and it makes it very difficult. And again, especially for the kids, I know people gotta do what they gotta do. So you can't really fault someone for having to move, whether it's for a job or whatever, or just wanting to be, I understand it, but there's a reason that a lot of times the courts will say, mm-hmm. No, not without a previous agreement or some type of concessions.

Dani:

On August 4th, 2003, third district Judge Bruce Lubeck found Natalie in contempt of court for living out of state. Oh. He gave her 30 days to relocate closer to John or face, 30 days in jail and a thousand dollars fine.

Stephanie:

Oh, that's not good. I can't imagine being under, listen, I don't wanna move ever. Tell me you have to move in 30 days. She moved. She did, but I mean, I can,'cause this is August 4th of oh three. The craziness happened the eighth.

Dani:

Mm-hmm.

Stephanie:

So I can, I'm already seeing it's escalating. She, she's feeling the pinch and the pressure.

Dani:

Mm-hmm.

Stephanie:

And. I don't know what happens next, but I'm eager to hear it.

Dani:

The judge also warned that if she did not comply before the school year started very

Stephanie:

soon, that's like the end of August, right? That's less than 30 days. Probably custody

Dani:

would be transferred to John.

Stephanie:

Oh, there's too much at stake.

Dani:

During that same hearing, the judge ordered John to pay nearly$6,000 in back alimony and set child support at$927 per month.

Stephanie:

So the both. Not happy.

Dani:

They're both not doing what they're supposed to

Stephanie:

be doing. They're both being crazies. They're both getting consequences.

Dani:

Escalation city. In a letter to the court, Natalie wrote quote, while the clock ticks and our case grinds slowly through the legal process, I am forced to live in the real world. The burden of feeding clothing and providing shelter for my children has fallen square upon my shoulders. This is not about responsibility. I should bear on my own. I kind of feel, and I don't know if she moved first and then he withheld child support or if he was withholding child support. So she just took a job that she could get. I don't know. But you see the whole gist. Tit for tap. The stabbing, stabbing and mud slinging. Yeah. Family member said that that ruling broke her though the, the 30 days moving back or she's

Stephanie:

trying to establish, and I'm not excusing right, but I'm just understanding how someone could become desperate.

Dani:

Quote, that battle over financial support and the fight to stay in Idaho eventually led Natalie to snap Her father said later and sounds like snap. She did. Yeah. and during going through her divorce, Natalie, had met David Gaylor. Around this time. I mean, this was going on for years, right? Yeah. They met in an online screenwriting forum while both were submitting scripts to the HBO's project, Greenlight competition. Do you remember that?

Stephanie:

I don't know if I do. What was it?

Dani:

it was, I wanna say it was, I think I wrote it down. Maybe I didn't. It was like Ben Affleck and,

Stephanie:

Dam. Matt, Matt Damon

Dani:

did a whole thing with HBO about like producing a movie.'cause this was like the whole, it's

Stephanie:

kind of ringing a bell. I don't know if I remember it though, but, so

Dani:

it was a big deal. It was like a whole HBO series. so the two began talking daily and then they met in person. Gayla revealed that he had had a past conviction for child sexual abuse in California. So Natalie was fully aware. Friend said the pair became inseparable and gay proposed to her at a project Green light party in LA in front of cameras and a crowd of writers.

Stephanie:

I think that's a red flag. That type of proposal. And listen, I don't know the context, I don't love it,

Dani:

quote. It was one of the most genuinely romantic moments that attendee Julie Mullen. They really loved each other. Maybe they discussed it before. I don't know. Maybe I, and I felt like it, like I said,

Stephanie:

I don't know the exact terms of their relationship, but for me, public proposals especially, like this is another event, like they could be getting recognition for something else and kind of hijacking that. I just don't love it personally. Pet peeve for me doesn't mean it's wrong pet peeve,

Dani:

but by the end of that summer, after that. hearing the court's deadline loomed. Yeah. Natalie was

Stephanie:

pressure's on.

Dani:

Natalie confided in her friends that she was terrified of losing custody. She told her father, she planned to go to Park City to quote, make a deal with John David Turner. Said, sweetie, are you okay? And she said, dad, we've got a plan. I'm all right. And that's the last thing he ever heard from her.

Stephanie:

And I wouldn't think that right off the bat, knowing where this goes, you know?

Dani:

So we're back to David.'cause they, they got him. Mm-hmm. David wasn't shot. He was the only one that wasn't shot. He was interrogated in the Wasatch County jail. Prosecutors quickly charged him with attempted aggravated murder and aggravated kidnapping. Both first degree felonies. Along with possession of a dangerous weapon by a restricted person and failure to respond to an officer's signal to stop.'cause this went on for miles. They're not fucking around. Yeah. They're like, no. Gaylor told investigators, they brought the gun quote just in case to scare John. Never bring a gun just in case. Never works out well and never point a gun

Stephanie:

unless you plan to shoot like this. This was a a shit show waiting to happen.

Dani:

But the investigators believe they came to kill John There's simply no question in my mind that's what's going on here. Sheriff Edmund said it was a premeditated attempted homicide.

Stephanie:

It was their plan. I. I don't even know everything, but I'm, I can see putting myself in her shoes, I can just smell the desperation.

Dani:

Absolutely. Back in Haley, the new stun colleagues at the Chamber of Commerce acting president, Jeff Burtz, told reporters it was known. She was kind of in the midst of some custody issues, but we were shocked. Just shocked.

Stephanie:

Oh, I bet they, they didn't know what was bubbling beneath the surface.

Dani:

Mm-hmm. Investigators determined Turner had sustained at least five gunshot wounds in total. Two to the chest, one under her arm, one to the neck, and one grazing wound to the head oof. Authorities believe she might have been wounded Earlier during the altercation at the house, Rosenhan said the head and neck injuries likely occurred during the struggle in the car.

Stephanie:

This is why, like, I'm just the, the chaoticness of it. So many bullets and. In a car speeding. Gun shots in a like,

Dani:

this is wild to me. Forensic evidence suggested a fight for the gun. Yeah. Sounds like it. Blood spatter inside the car and along the passenger side door showed that Natalie and John had struggled over the weapon. It happened in a matter of seconds. Rosen Han said, then she got out of the car, the revolver, a six shot 3 57 had been fired multiple times. Police said some of the rounds may have been reloaded during the altercation.

Stephanie:

What a shit show. I'm just imagining this in my head of, can you picture, it's like being chased by police, struggling for a gun in a car, someone driving erratically trying to get away. There's blood everywhere. It's a

Dani:

movie.

Stephanie:

Yes. And not a movie

Dani:

I want to be in. Mm-hmm.

Stephanie:

I am sure that you're gonna get into this, but, or maybe you will, maybe you won't, but I'm just like, again, how did we get here? You went there, you shot him in the house, or it sounds like, did you think he was dead and then he sprung back? Like, why in the hell, listen, I'm not advocating for it, but if I was. There and had made that decision and shot someone twice, I think I'd wanna make sure they were dead and shoot them in the head because, I mean, you can't really tell where a bullet's gone. I mean, we're talking below the heart and the liver. Mm-hmm. That's, you have no idea where that's went, like, how is, is this happening in a car, in a police chase? Poor planning, like I said, I. I told Danny this earlier when we were on a break, but I'm just like, this is a woman that graduated when she was 19 from college. Sounds like this was very messy, and again, not advocating for it, but honey, where was the planning? What I, the bar is higher for me with women, and so it's just like, what's, what's, what's going on here?

Dani:

Wasatch County Attorney. Thomas Lowe filed charges on August 28th. Authorities say Natalie Turner and Gaylor went to John's log cabin style home with the intent to kill him on August 8th. He told reporters, yeah,

Stephanie:

sounds like it.

Dani:

After the chase and shootout, police found John bleeding from the two gunshot wounds in the backseat of the car, driven by Gaylor. So he is talking about the charges against Gaylor. in an interview from jail with a Salt Lake Tribune, Gaylor maintained his innocence, quote. I personally don't feel like I have anything to hide. He said I didn't do anything wrong.

Stephanie:

Eh, you sure about that?

Dani:

Gaylor described the drive from Idaho as calm. She was a little bit nervous about going down there. But was not anticipating what it turned into. Neither of us were. He claimed, he had stayed in the car while Natalie went inside to talk to John. I heard shots and went in. John was on the ground bleeding. Gayler said they both helped John into the backseat to get him medical help. Hmm. But investigators saw a different story. Quote, despite statements suggesting Natalie and Gaylor were taking John to get medical attention, I believe their intent was to finish off the job and go dump the body. Yeah. Somewhere, somewhere

Stephanie:

else. Because honestly, if he would've just gotten him to get into the car and could have murdered him out elsewhere, that probably would've been the best'cause then who knows where he went? No blood at the, at his house. Yeah. And, and, and if so. Why wouldn't you stop for police and be like, help us, escort us right to the hospital, please. Let's put on those fucking lights. Let's go. Like, went through two

Dani:

counties. Look,

Stephanie:

looking. He's bleeding. Unless you know that he's gonna be like, yeah,'cause these motherfucker shot me.

Dani:

Sheriff, Edmond said quote, it was premeditated attempted homicide. records confirm that Gaylor was a registered sex offender ale in 1995. He had pleaded guilty in California to continuous sexual abuse of a child, and lewd acts with a child under 14. Absolutely not. Nope, I can, Nope. And of course, that conviction made his possession of a firearm, a second degree felony under the Utah law. Yeah. Immediately, no. When Gaylor appeared in fourth District Court on August 29th, judge Donald Ier read the charges allowed. Do you understand the charges against you? The judge asked. I do. Gala replied his attorney, Todd Inger, God, these names are killing me today. Todd Inger told the press afterward. Quote, he's mourning the loss of Natalie. He is under personal stress, worrying about how her kids are doing.

Stephanie:

Can I just, I know this might take some looking back for you, but just for some context,'cause I know that this was a concern of John, is that this motherfucker was still around this sex offender, Gaylor dude. Mm-hmm. How long were they actually together?

Dani:

I am not sure. Actually, and that disappoints me that you two years or less? No, it had to have been less than two years.

Stephanie:

Who the fuck is this guy that wants to still be in the kids' lives with the in-laws? I'm sorry. Yeah. I don't know the whole story yet, but I'm just like, move on buddy. Like there's no way that you have a bond with these kids that you need to be around them. You fucking creep. Like

Dani:

kinda. Yeah.

Stephanie:

I don't like it.

Dani:

I don't, yeah. The bond was at a hundred thousand dollars cash only for Gaylor. Prosecutors said the case might also draw some federal interest because Gaylor had carried a firearm across state lines. They're gonna get this. Fuck up. You're fucked. Quote that combined with the fact that the man is a convicted felon has peaked the interest of the US Attorney's office. That one that he

Stephanie:

gave an interview that's like, I don't think I did nothing. What? You're a fucking

Dani:

felon, bro. No. The Utah investigators portrayed Turner and Gay as conspirators and a botched murder plot in Idaho. Friends saw them as a couple overwhelmed by years of custody warfare. Brian McNeary, the chief of police, and Hailey said, quoted upsets me because I knew her. We had no negative dealings with Turner or Gayler,

Stephanie:

and that's what is so unfortunate is yes, you may be in the right, yes, you may be. You know, things get fucking messy in relationships, but John. Didn't try to kill her, and maybe he didn't try to kill her yet. Who knows? It sounds like this could have escalated to craziness on both sides, but you can't go around trying to murder people about it. Can't murder back like that. You, you lose all credibility at that point. Like, I don't, it sounds like. Yeah. Everyone agreed that they were both playing very dirty and being incredibly shitty to each other. So, and John

Dani:

was winning in court. Mm-hmm. And that's where you see the desperate he was winning and the 30 day, yeah. I

Stephanie:

total I can or lose cus like it'll be au automatically given to him. Yep. Yeah. Panic. That was her worst fear. Mm-hmm. That was her worst fear. She's trying to establish herself. Again, not an excuse, but y'all gotta not get. Dig your heels in about this shit. Like you have to find a way to compromise, and I know how it is when you have a very tumultuous ending but can't be doing this shit. This is what happens.

Dani:

The autopsy confirmed what officers had reported at the scene. Turner died from multiple gunshot wounds, at least two of which were inflicted by law enforcement officers,

Stephanie:

so she may have been shot

Dani:

by him. The medical examiner noted injuries consistent with a violent struggle before she exited the car. By the end of August, the case file grew to hundreds of pages. Split between was Hutch and Summit Counties'cause they're dealing with two counties. Dual counties always makes it a mess. Quote, we're anxious to go, but out of the respect, two other agencies will wait. Lowe said, of the decision to file federal charges. Edmonds added using evidence from a crime scene that spans two counties. Investigators are putting together a puzzle they hope will reveal what occurred that night at John's home and what led to John's gunshot wounds. Turner's death at the hands of deputies and gay's arrest in connection with the incident. So much, so much messy. Yeah, and everyone wants to get their ducks in a row, so the autopsy turner was struck five times. Shit. authorities said she died instantly. Edmonds told reporters, quote, that is the scariest thing you can encounter as a peace officer, an armed assailant.

Stephanie:

Yeah.

Dani:

Wasatch County attorney Thomas Lowe, reached the same conclusion. According to Natalie's father, Gaylor shot him. He said the case has been fully investigated and Wasatch County will not charge John in the matter. The investigative report reconstructed the final struggle inside the eclipse. Oh, so what happened? John was bleeding significantly from two gunshot wounds during the struggle. John apparently obtained the 3 57 handgun and fired several shots inside the vehicle at Natalie

Stephanie:

Chaos

Dani:

with some of them striking her dash cam video from three patrol vehicles recorded the moments before Turner stepped out of the passenger door with a revolver.

Stephanie:

So, yeah, kind of a, it sounds like she was going a little body and Clyde like if, if she, if the dash cam, I haven't seen the footage or anything, but if the dash cam shows her doing that, what the hell are you doing girl? It was not pretty

Dani:

John was the victim here, Edmund said at a press conference. The evidence supports that this was a premeditated attempt on his life by Natalie Turner and David Gayler. The sheriff added that his department's review board has already exonerated the deputy who fired the shotgun quote. We don't anticipate any problems with that at all. So they're saying, you know, they're clear, there's no, they're clear in the guys foul

Stephanie:

play. Yeah.

Dani:

David Turner did not agree. The Ogden father said Utah Highway Patrol investigators told him the video showed John shooting his daughter twice. They see very clearly that John shot Natalie. He said he believed John should be charged.

Stephanie:

I'm sorry if I've been shot twice. How is anything after that not self-defense? What do they say? Never go to the second location. Uhuh. If I get the gun, you've shot me twice and I get the gun, I fucking started blasting. Like, like if I, can you imagine and listen, I, once again, the dash cam isn't gonna show what happened in the car and everything. But from what I have heard, if I, if you have been shot twice. And are lucky enough to somehow contain the gun. The gun. I'm shooting. I'm shooting everything everywhere. I am pulling that trigger. And because that doesn't happen, that doesn't happen. And so if you pajamas even still alive after being shot twice. Yes. Almost in the heart. Yeah. And so. No, I am. I am clawing my way back from hell, bitch. You better believe it. Well, David

Dani:

Turner said he believed that John should be charged.

Stephanie:

Sorry, dad. That's her dad, right? Yep. I'm so sorry, but in what world? Absolutely not

Dani:

he, he said, we just wanna know, we know there wasn't any time for any investigation. We're outraged. he was literally shot. I don't at his house.

Stephanie:

Listen, I know a parent's love. I know he wants to ride for his daughter, but this just sounds ridiculous to me. Little common sense pro. How in the hell if it was the other way around, would you say that she needs to be charged? If he had shot her twice right, and was driving her somewhere that she didn't know, and then she got the gun and wouldn't pull over for authority. If you really help me get to the hospital, bro. Mm-hmm. Put those red and blues on for me. Are you shitting my dick? I'm sorry. I, I get the fatherly love, but you gotta have some, we, we have to be based in reality here.

Dani:

John's family remained mostly silent. His adult daughter, April told reporters that her father was doing phenomenally well and that the family was focused on gaining full custody of the children. He has full custodial rights of those kids. She said he had multiple gunshots. In multiple different areas. These organs were removed and repaired. She said surgeons had repaired damage to his liver, spleen, kidneys, intestines, and other abdominal organs. Yeah, he was fucked up. And just so you know, April, because John was 50, this, he had older children. Mm-hmm. So April, I believe she was 20 in her, at least her early twenties. So sure she was an adult. While prosecutors built their case, Gaylor said in the Wasatch County jail, writing letters to Turner's family. According to David Turner quote, he was very genuine and very sweet. He worshiped my daughter and he probably ruined his life because he worshiped my daughter.

Stephanie:

So let him around the grandkid like what? What?

Dani:

Just after 3:00 PM on September 1st, 2003, an inmate inside the Wasatch County Jail noticed something wrong through an opening between the cell block and the bathroom wall. He saw the bottoms of a man's feet hanging. guards Rushed in, cut down. 31-year-old David Gayler and began CPR. Sergeant Jeff Winterton later described what they found. Gaylor had tied a sheet to a top rail. He said deputies cut him down. CPR was performed and his pulse was established before he left the jail. Gayler was airlifted to the University of Utah Health Sciences Center in Salt Lake City E. His attorney, Todd Inger, said his client was on life support quote. Now the family is basically deciding what to do. It's a foregone conclusion. He's going to die. Oh, at this point it's just a matter of time. The next day on September 2nd, gay's family authorized doctors to remove life support. She's just sort of stunned by the whole thing as any parent would be. As zinger said of gay's mother, Naomi Leonard, who had flown in from California. Gaylor died within 12 hours.

Stephanie:

Damn.

Dani:

Is this just a fucking tragedy? All the way all around? Yeah.

Stephanie:

It just. Everyone that touched this is experience like the kids, the parents, the boyfriend. Like, I don't, people need to woo saw they, they do need to. Woo saw

Dani:

authorities later discovered that Gayler had written a 22 page letter before, the attempt outlining his love for Natalie and her two children. David Turner said he planned to keep the letter for the grandchildren until they were old enough to read it. Quote, this kid is very fragile. He told the park record, I've been worried about him since day one, and the letter Gaylor described guilt and grief. He wanted to be with Natalie. David Turner said,

Stephanie:

why? This is literally like Shakespearean and, and I am still struggling. Again, I wasn't, I don't know all the ins and outs. We never will. But for the, the father of Natalie to be like, I'm keeping this for the grandkids, for my grandkids, her kids.

Dani:

Mm-hmm.

Stephanie:

It's, to me, my opinion is that it's a little strange that, that this man that was not their father. I just, maybe the kids felt the same way. Maybe he was a really cool guy, really cool stepdad. I don't know. But just knowing that he is like a sex offender for like 14 and under. Like why are we, I don't know if I would, I,

Dani:

Sorry. I didn't know if I was being, but I'm, I'm agreeing with you. Like, I don't know shit.

Stephanie:

Yeah, it's, it's just from the outside looking in and that's what we are doing. That's a bit

Dani:

strange to me. No, I really think that her family really liked this guy, and maybe even if

Stephanie:

you, I mean, for me, a two year relationship is like kids in high school do that like that. If it was like. Oh, had raised them, you know, seven, eight year maybe I would understand a bit more, but clearly he didn't have good judgment If he was willing to indulge her plan and help her as a felon, and not be like, listen babe, this is, listen babe, I get the feeling. We can't actually do that though. Like there's. And with such poor planning and how terribly it went, like who's the adult in the room? There wasn't one,

Dani:

and I didn't do the math thing on how old he was when he got this charge in 95. Like, you know, was he, was he 18 and the girl was 13? Still not, but back then in the nineties that was a thing. Yeah, you could do that. So I times maybe, but under 14 really? Because if it would've been under 16, I was like, well, was she 15 and he was 18? But I didn't, I couldn't find anything like detailed on like to put it together, how old the child was, how old. I could do some math, but I didn't.

Stephanie:

Regardless,

Dani:

I don't, I don't, and

Stephanie:

they didn't charge people with that back then. Mike know. I don't know any man that comes into a life as a step. Fuck it. I don't know any man that comes into children's life as a stepdad and within two years would be deserving. Less than two years would be deserving of like, oh, I wanna keep something to give to the kid, like the grandkids. That's really fucking you up, isn't it? It it just, maybe it was a special case. I don't, I don't know, but just that. they wanted to fight legally and get grandparents' rights and they were willing to keep him in knowing that obviously that doesn't look good for a court, that he has children, sexual offenses, like, it's just very strange. Like people can be very convincing and very charming, and I'm just like, you were willing to keep this guy in your life even though you wanted to fight to the teeth and nail to get custody of these kids. It's just.

Dani:

That would be the first thing I would do as a grandparent. Like, oh, this guy cut off. Yes,

Stephanie:

you gotta go. No, you're not gonna get that on me in court. No, absolutely not. But that you were like, no, he needs to be part of their lies. He's, yeah. What?

Dani:

Wasatch County attorney? low close the criminal case. Days later it's done. He told reporters we're still awaiting the death certificate, but the case is closed.

Stephanie:

Yeah.

Dani:

Family members authorized gay's, burial in Colorado near other relatives. David Turner said he visited the hospital before life support was withdrawn. He wanted to be with Natalie. He repeated again I, the Summit County Attorney's letter had already cleared both officers of wrongdoing. The final paragraph confirmed that Turner's revolver had misfired before she was shot. Quote, Natalie Turner asked the officers to shoot her, and she raised the hand gun. She was over in the general direction of the officers and pulled the trigger. Turner then aimed the weapon directly at some of the officers and pulled the trigger again. The gun didn't fire.

Stephanie:

Oh, this is literally tragic.

Dani:

By late September, both counties had closed their files. The case was considered over. But closure on paper didn't ease the grief that stretched between Ogden Park City and Hailey. David Turner still insisted his daughter had gone to Utah only to reason with her ex-husband. Quote, she must have snapped. She did something she shouldn't do. He said,

Stephanie:

I mean, that's, that's as much as he is gonna say, but. I think we all know in the end,

Dani:

no one won. No everyone lost. Two parents were gone. Two children were left with questions cor, and a custody battle that began in a courtroom ended on the side of the highway.

Stephanie:

No, this is terrible. All around, like we said. Don't let it get this ccra. Like you just can't be wilded out like this.

Dani:

So my takeaway from this, I've, I think Natalie went there, shot John, then she messed up. Mm-hmm. Threw him in the car. I, I kind of feel like she might have been taking him to the hospital maybe. And during that, and this is all just speculation, like right, this is just, yeah, my thought process. But during that ride, John was fighting with her, right? Fighting for his life. He didn't know where he was going. No, maybe they weren't taking him for help, but he was fighting with her walking. And would you

Stephanie:

trust someone that just shot you, even if they promised you that they were,

Dani:

uh, and he got that gun? He did shoot her a couple of times. That's fact. And then Gaylor probably saw Natalie was shot and finally was like, I'm not driving anymore. Like, like,

Stephanie:

this has escalated too.

Dani:

I didn't know we were gonna do this.

Stephanie:

Not this

Dani:

crazy. No, but I'm really surprised. I really do think it was desperate. Like she didn't care anymore. She was like, fuck it, shoot me. Mm-hmm. Do not, you cannot, like you said, can't find a gun.

Stephanie:

No, she, she was, I think that she knew that there was. She had reached a point of no return. Yep. And so doozy, this is liter. Like all I can keep saying is Shakespearean. Yeah. Of like

Dani:

it's a lifetime movie That's, I was just, that started reading. I'm like, what the, she what?

Stephanie:

Yeah. So folks, nothing is worth this. No, it doesn't help anyone. It hurts everyone. Try if you can, to keep it civil and don't listen.

Dani:

Don't bring your gun

Stephanie:

to talk. Yeah. You're, because if you're

Dani:

saying I'm bringing a gun to just to talk some common sense and to say, no, you're not, even

Stephanie:

though, no you're not. And don't do that. No bad idea. All around. and those poor children, they are the ultimate victims

Dani:

in this. Right? Yeah. And Natalie's par, I mean, it sounds like Dad was really, yeah. She was probably a daddy's girl. Dad was her. He's gonna defend her till the mm-hmm. Till the day he, you know, yeah, it's sure. Messy,

Stephanie:

messy, all around bad folks. Revenge sounds good on paper, but then this is what really happens. So we saw, is all we can say, again, follow us on our socials. We just so y'all know. We've released some things on Facebook recently that were released on TikTok like weeks ago. Everyone loves it. Love that. You guys love it. TikTok is the most up to date. If you're anti TikTok, that's okay. Yeah. You'll see things on Facebook. You'll be a little late to the party, but it's okay. You are still invited. Yeah, so we still love it, but fashionably late. If you want the most UpToDate silliness. Go to the TikTok, email us any questions, comments, concerns, case recommendations, the lethal library@gmail.com. Anything else? Danny?

Dani:

Tell your friends.

Stephanie:

Tell your friends. Word of mouth. All right. Well, ten four river ducky. Fuck yeah.

Head Shot

Dani

Host
Head Shot

Stephanie

Host