60. The Yantis Tragedy: A Community in Conflict

In this episode of The Lethal Library, Dani and Stephanie dive into a wild Idaho 2015 case that starts with a Subaru slamming into a 2,500-pound breeding bull on dark Highway 95 near Council, and somehow spirals into one of the state’s most explosive, community-splitting showdowns. They unpack open range law (and why it confuses everyone), the chaos at the crash scene, and how a call to the rancher to “handle it” turns into a deadly encounter with two deputies; without dash cam or usable body cam footage to settle what really happened. As investigators, the FBI, and the public collide, tensions rise, histories resurface, and the valley is left arguing about liability, gun safety, and whether justice ever had a chance.

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Transcript

Dani 0:00

a crash on a dark highway north of council started it. A breeding bull was down and a longtime rancher was called from his dinner table to finish the job. Within minutes, gunfire erupted and the valley was left asking who had really pulled the trigger and why A neighbor laid dead in the road. It became one of the most explosive cases in Idaho. And the answers never came Easy.

Stephanie 0:57

Alright, welcome back to the Lethal Library. I am Stephanie.

Dani 1:01

And I'm Danny.

Stephanie 1:03

And we are here to tell you yet another true crime story out of Idaho. this one's about. A location that we're both familiar with. We drive through really often around the council area. So those of you in the area might also be really familiar with it. so I'm excited to see what this is all about. I know that Danny's alluded to it on a few of our episodes, so it's not a story that I know, but I'm here to hear it.

Dani 1:35

It's pretty in incre, you're gonna be like, how did this even fucking happen?

Stephanie 1:39

Right.

Dani 1:39

It, it really is. Okay. And, I'll bell be interested to see, how you feel on the back end after I tell you the story. if it was justified. If

Stephanie 1:50

it's one of those,

Dani 1:51

yeah.

Stephanie 1:51

Okay.

Dani 1:52

and

Stephanie 1:53

those ones are always really tough.

Dani 1:54

It is tough. Okay. And, little. Sneak peek. How weird. There's no dash cam, there's no fucking, body cam.

Stephanie 2:07

When was this? Like what year frame are we talking?

Dani 2:10

2015.

Stephanie 2:12

Yeah. That's not, it's not like we're talking the eighties, nineties.

Dani 2:15

No.

Stephanie 2:17

Very inter asante. so Danny, I'll let you take it away.

Dani 2:22

Let's get into it. Sources used today are articles from KIVI and my favorite bitch, the Idaho statesman.

Stephanie 2:31

Love you girl.

Dani 2:34

A car hit the bull just after dark on November 1st, 2015 on US. 95, about six miles north of council. The Subaru Legacy station wagon, driven by Jack Garner and carrying his new wife, Dory, smashed into the big black breeding bull that belonged to a local rancher, Jackie Anis.

Stephanie 2:57

Ouch.

Dani 2:59

The hood crumpled the windshield blue inward. The one ton animal came up over the car and into the cab.

Stephanie 3:07

Oh my gosh.

Dani 3:08

both garners suffered serious head and body injuries. The little dog and a kennel in the back somehow survived without a scratch.

Stephanie 3:18

Oh, at least there's that.

Dani 3:22

do you wanna see a picture? Let me see. I do, I think I took a picture. I think I saved,

Stephanie 3:29

oh, and this is a Subaru. What was an Outback?

Dani 3:34

I'm not. I'm not sure, but look at that. Like the bull literally rolled into.

Stephanie 3:40

And just to give you guys that are listening to this audio and maybe haven't looked up this picture, this is a car that it looks like it was kind, it's not flattened to the ground, but it looks like a steam roller went like maybe three feet up, like just on the hood and. Smashed until it almost got to the windshield. Still smashed a bit, but didn't smash it flat. It this hitting a cow, and

Dani 4:15

especially with this hike of a car,

Stephanie 4:18

it's going to,

Dani 4:19

you clip their legs and then they're just. Roll. This is, that's the biggest thing about,

Stephanie 4:23

they're turning into a steam roller.

Dani 4:24

Yeah. That's the biggest thing about hitting even a deer. Deer

Stephanie 4:28

or an elk.

Dani 4:28

Right. Their legs are just the hike.

Stephanie 4:31

Yeah.

Dani 4:32

That you clip'em and then they roll.

Stephanie 4:34

So this is like between a deer and an elk, I think would be a good way to describe a full grown cow.

Dani 4:40

The height.

Stephanie 4:40

A bull. Well,

Dani 4:42

this

Stephanie 4:42

bull because a deer, A deer is kind of lightweight. Like they're just mu lean. And elk is a big ass bitch. Tall and usually pretty hefty.

Dani 4:50

Do you wanna know how much this bull weighed? How much? 2,400 pounds. Between 2,400. And is

Stephanie 4:56

that not a ton?

Dani 4:57

Yeah, between 24 and 2,500 pounds. So you it's,

Stephanie 5:02

and most cars are two tons maybe,

Dani 5:05

right? I'm not sure. But

Stephanie 5:07

that's a guess on my part from some.

Dani 5:10

Please tell us what

Stephanie 5:11

desolate part of my

Dani 5:12

brain, what we need to know. I didn't look that

Stephanie 5:14

up. Something in my brain's telling me that,

Dani 5:16

but

Stephanie 5:16

correct

Dani 5:17

this, but they, so they just hit the legs and so all the weight is on the upper body and it just rolls.

Stephanie 5:24

Yeah. It's like, it looks like a roller went over the hood and p.

Dani 5:32

So this stretch of highway in front of the TIS ranch was open range, which we've talked about this before.

Stephanie 5:38

Well, some people from Idaho might not be familiar with what that means or our rules too.

Dani 5:43

So the open range law in Idaho allows for roads and highways to pass through open range. In certain designated areas where livestock can roam, if a motorist hits livestock in open range, they're liable for the damages, not the rancher who owned the livestock.

Stephanie 6:04

So what that means is if you hit cattle or livestock in an open range portion. They have the right of way, essentially.

Dani 6:18

Mm-hmm.

Stephanie 6:18

And there's signs saying, you know, open range. We watch for stop. We see

6:22

em

Stephanie 6:22

all the time. There's, you know,

Dani 6:24

even close to Boise.

Stephanie 6:26

Yeah.

Dani 6:27

You're not very far out of the, out of the city. And you will see them like it's right

Stephanie 6:32

there. And I'll say that like ranchers aren't. In generally in what I've seen trying to use this to their advantage. Mm-hmm. And be like, yes, cows cross the road. They wanna protect their assets. Losing cattle

Dani 6:47

is huge,

Stephanie 6:48

is not good. I'm gonna talk

Dani 6:49

about those numbers.

Stephanie 6:50

And Danny would have experience with that as well. So ranchers from overall, they're not just

Dani 6:57

letting them roam across

Stephanie 6:58

the highway. They're not like, ha ha, ha. If you, I'm going to, you know, encourage my cattle to cross here and if you hit them, then yes, I get to sue you because that's everyone. Litigation is a huge and time consuming thing. They'd rather protect their assets than have their cattle or whatever stock get hit. And so it's a different thing. It's something that often trips a lot of people up on their driving test if they're from outta state, because it sounds like a no-brainer of. If a cow's in the road crossing and you hid it,

Dani 7:34

who's liable?

Stephanie 7:35

Who's liable? And you're like,

Dani 7:37

well,

Stephanie 7:37

well that's someone's cow. Why is the cow in the road? It's not a dog. Their fence must be broken. No, there's open range here,

Dani 7:44

but even I will say this and and we're most ranchers are. Fencing, fencing. Yeah. Their cows in. So it's not like, eh, just go play in the streets. Kids, they're

Stephanie 7:56

not just no,

Dani 7:57

they don't wanna do that.

Stephanie 7:58

But things happen and

Dani 8:00

animals can get out. Dogs can get out. Cows can get out. So it's, it's, it happens. It's unfortunate. Nobody want, and these ranchers, this was a bull of his, and I'm telling you, it was probably a prize bull. Mm-hmm. He had raised it. Set it out, let him go get his gals every year. And you know, but he knew this bull, you know? Mm-hmm. And, and ranchers do that. They know their animals.

Stephanie 8:28

No one wants their animals to get run over by cars and they're not going to be encouraging them into a situation that puts them at risk.

Dani 8:39

So council itself set sits in a rural valley.

Stephanie 8:43

It does

Dani 8:45

surrounded on three sides by forest. About 800 people lived in the town and about 3,800 in the county. I do not know the county size, but it's a good size county. It's a big old girl. Yeah. I was a conservative place where most people preferred to be left alone, where many vehicles carried rifles and shotguns still do, and where almost every household had firearms. People prided themselves on gun safety and on knowing how to put down injured livestock humane.

Stephanie 9:22

Because it's an, it's, it's a thing that's gonna come up.

Dani 9:25

It's gonna be necessary. Whether, whether it's a cow, a bull, a deer, or a

Stephanie 9:30

deer, that they find

Dani 9:31

a bear

Stephanie 9:32

that's suffering, that's been hit. Or,

Dani 9:34

I know of a bear that was hit up there too. Mm-hmm. at one point it, it was a little bear, didn't, you know, kill people, but people are gonna run into these wild animals or. Quote unquote, domesticated, you know, owned animals and the, they're gonna get hit. Unfortunately, you, those are, it's a canyon

Stephanie 9:57

and, but we have black bears here.

Dani 9:59

Yeah.

Stephanie 9:59

At night to see them.

Dani 10:02

I lost my little side story. I lost my. a hundred pound golden doodle in the mountains at the cabin. because

Stephanie 10:11

you can't see him?

Dani 10:12

No. He got a, a lighted,

Stephanie 10:14

a lighted collar. Yeah.

Dani 10:15

After this. Yeah. But I was so worried that somebody was gonna think, was gonna, think he was a bear. No,

Stephanie 10:22

because Gordy look like a bear. He's, and I think a hundred pounds, he probably was maybe. He's a big, tall, big ass, furry ass boy. So he's already big boy golden doodle. Mm-hmm. And when he's got his full coat, he's fluffy as fuck.

Dani 10:38

Mm-hmm.

Stephanie 10:39

So in the pitch dark, there's not street lights around.

Dani 10:43

Right.

Stephanie 10:43

There's our fire. I think you guys maybe have one big light out there. I don't know.

Dani 10:48

Not on our property. It's down

Stephanie 10:50

the road. Okay. Down the road. But

Dani 10:51

still it concerned me. I'm like, but

Stephanie 10:52

if. No. And so, well,

Dani 10:56

somebody's

Stephanie 10:56

gonna think he's a bear.

Dani 10:57

I would think he was a bear.

Stephanie 10:58

I would think he's a bear,

Dani 11:00

a baby bear, but still a bear. So. after that

Stephanie 11:03

needs bear. Maybe

Dani 11:04

after that when it got dusk. Lights on,

Stephanie 11:08

lights on

Dani 11:08

until he got old. And then he didn't have

Stephanie 11:11

to then he didn't wander.

Dani 11:12

No, he just sat by the fire. But I always would keep an eye on him. Mm-hmm. And he knew his home, but when he was three he

Stephanie 11:18

was adventurous.

Dani 11:19

Yeah. So, no, it's a, it's a thing up there. So Jackie Anis had grown up in that culture. He was born in Fruitvale north of council. And raised on a cattle ranch with two older brothers and a younger sister. Their father was a World War II tank veteran who demanded hard work. The boys developed the toughness and work ethic that neighbors still talked about. Each brother later ran his own operation in council country, so they both had their cattle ranches,

Stephanie 11:52

family business. Okay.

Dani 11:55

Jack became a progressive cattleman. Who use new breeding technology, which is a thing. It really is a thing.

Stephanie 12:04

It's it Is that with farming as well? Yeah. A lot of people think farming. Oh, you're just digging up stuff. No, there's intense technologies of. When to water and how, how the, you know, tractors move. There's so much technology that's in it now that's available. Yeah.

Dani 12:20

It's not just owning some cows, right? He was also a respected logger and faller friend. Said the forest service, still called him to deal with problem trees. He loved the woods and the outdoors. He hunted, rodeoed, logged and ran cattle, and he was known as the man who made his living from the ground and timber. What he did not raise, he shot good old boy.

Stephanie 12:47

Sounds like a

Dani 12:49

very hardworking

Stephanie 12:52

duh. And just dedicated, and you know, if that's your type of lifestyle, living off the land, you dig in. I, I think that's really cool. not for everyone, but if you really do embrace it, I think that's kind of cool.

Dani 13:06

No, I do

Stephanie 13:07

too. And, and you're The

Dani 13:08

knowledge that you have compared

Stephanie 13:11

to fall trees, like an arborist into that, that you're the person that they come to that's,

Dani 13:16

yeah. The Forest Service has given you a call because they have this tree.

Stephanie 13:19

That's kind of a cool skill.

Dani 13:21

Yeah. I love it. Jack and Donna, his wife, had known each other since grade school. Aw. They married young and raised two daughters. People described him as a tough man, but a soft spoken one who loved his animals and his family. He trained both daughters and gun safety from the time they were five. His idea of church on Sunday often involved a trip into the Idaho back country with a line. Let's go see what God created. Yeah.

Stephanie 13:51

That's really cute.

Dani 13:52

I love that.

Stephanie 13:52

And he's a girl, dad, and

Dani 13:54

I love that

Stephanie 13:55

so much. And raising them. Listen, I think every woman should know gun safety, so I'm just gonna say that right now.

Dani 14:02

Yeah. Well we live here. Everybody has guns, like literally.

Stephanie 14:05

But I think all ladies, just to listen, men don't have to worry about putting their keys in their knuckles to go to their thing. So if it's something that doesn't irk you too bad, just get comfortable with it or know a little bit about it. Even if you don't wanna own a gun, maybe just go shoot a gun and see if it might be something for you. You might find that you enjoy it. I, I've known women, one of the women I know, um, the mom of one of my ex-boyfriends. Was like the highest ranking shooter in as in the corrections facility.

Dani 14:57

Fuck yeah.

Stephanie 14:58

And I think that she even out may have outranked men, but she was just, and how cool. You might even find it as a new hobby. And then you just, it's just another skill for you. So,

Dani 15:13

or you could be, you could be like me, who was forced to purchase a gun. I have no desire. but we have very large kitty cats at our cabin. mountain lions a ugly kind, huge, big No,

Stephanie 15:27

and they're sneaky and they will,

Dani 15:29

so, and I go fish by myself, and I'm not dying over a trout, so I, I had to actually, we had two cougars up at our cabin in one summer, and that was enough for me to. My dad took me down and you know, my dad has,

Stephanie 15:47

here's the thing, if you see a big cat when you're up and walking around, it's probably because the cat fucked up and they don't fuck up often.

Dani 15:54

No cats scare the fuck outta

Stephanie 15:56

me. They are, ooh, they are like silent ninjas

Dani 16:00

and they weigh more than me. And no, I would lose that battle. And they're not, scared by some clappy clap, get away like a bear

Stephanie 16:07

and they don't respond to.

Dani 16:10

Yeah, like, so,

Stephanie 16:11

so

Dani 16:12

I have to be packing. I don't like it. I have shot the gun, not excellent at it. yeah. But

Stephanie 16:18

in, in the moment, I just, it's something I just encourage women. If, if it's something that weirds you out, maybe it's a, i, I think that it's a good exer, you know, just like people pick up new hobbies, like knitting or, you know, doing some type of community service or. Elect being, you know, electrically wiring things like women are branching out into so many different things. Why not give it a shot? If you don't like it, that's fine. But then at least it, I think it takes the fear out of

Dani 16:50

it. It it did it, it has, I'm still respected.

Stephanie 16:54

And then you have more control.

Dani 16:55

Yeah. And

Stephanie 16:56

respect.

Dani 16:57

I respect it. I do not like wearing it. It hinders the fishing. but I wanna be safe. And I'm putting myself in and there's a risk, I'm putting myself in an unsafe situation because I know, our neighbor up there, just this said, we haven't been seeing a lot of deer, must be a cat around. Mm-hmm. We know those things up there. So, anyways, But Jack's record was not spotless.

Stephanie 17:21

Mm-hmm.

Dani 17:22

We got a few little things.

Stephanie 17:23

This is okay.

Dani 17:24

In 1997, he pled guilty to one misdemeanor charge of resisting and obstructing after an encounter with a deputy. A battery count and another resisting charge were dropped, and in 2002 he is convicted of a Dewey. Mm. I don't know if a container on S 95 what we

Stephanie 17:46

know that,

Dani 17:47

breath test, put his blood alcohol level at, 0.12, not great. He served three days in jails, did his alcohol education and paid fines. His license was suspended for 90 days, but he still had daylight driving, permitted for ranch work, and of course all the counseling. And I'm sure that was a lesson learned with him.

Stephanie 18:09

You

Dani 18:10

had to go do all that stuff.

Stephanie 18:11

He's, he's following the consequences at least.

Dani 18:13

Yeah.

Stephanie 18:14

You know,

Dani 18:16

but none of that changed how most people in council saw him. Longtime residents, including the editor of the local paper, remembered him as a man with grit. Who never shied away from work. He served on the cemetery board, helped with four H and the Council, mountain Cattle Association. That was a handful and often helped neighbors or strangers who needed a hand.

Stephanie 18:44

He was that guy. He made an impression with people and I'm all, I'm, listen, I don't know how this ends, so maybe my opinion will change because it often does because. Listen, some people are able to be that guy with everyone externally, and that's part of their thing, but then they abuse people close to them. I don't know if this is the case, Um, I feel

Dani 19:10

Jack was that neighbor. That you could call, my pump's not working. There's something wrong with my cow.

Stephanie 19:21

My sense is broken,

Dani 19:22

right? All of these things,

19:23

I

Dani 19:23

got

Stephanie 19:23

a huge hole in my driveway.

Dani 19:26

That's the feeling that I get from it

Stephanie 19:28

sounds like

Dani 19:28

it. Reading, about him and, and, and the things that people said about him. Council itself was no stranger to the politics of open range. Idaho law allowed roads and highways to pass through enclosed grazing lands in open range. Livestock owners were not liable when motorists hit. Their animal drivers were responsible not only for their own injuries and the vehicle damage, but also for the value of the animal.

Stephanie 19:59

Yes. And that's, that's, that's the thing that

Dani 20:02

trips up people'cause it doesn't seem right compared to other instances. It doesn't seem on the

Stephanie 20:09

same page,

Dani 20:11

a breeding bull like Yantis could be worth five to$10,000 and today's value would be seven to$14,000. They are expensive animals.

Stephanie 20:25

Yes.

Dani 20:25

They're not letting them run free on the highway.

Stephanie 20:29

No, and this is, it's, and I, I will say, that's why I still agree with this. Open range type of law because it's very rare. And I think that people that have cattle have proven for the most part that it's, they, they don't want it either.

Dani 20:52

No, they don't want it either,

Stephanie 20:54

but they, if they have 75 miles, I'm, I'm, I'm, I don't know if that's a standard or anything, but I can, who knows how, how long they're, you can't. Police that all the time. And if it's, if it's a roadway that's through your property.

Dani 21:15

Mm-hmm. Uh, and also you underst this, it's a vast space. Yes. It is a lot of space that these guys run their cattle in, because if they had to feed'em in a little tiny box. It, it's not feasible. So they,

Stephanie 21:35

so this is the type of cattle farming, right, cattle ranching

Dani 21:38

that they do. So they turn'em out on this beautiful, tall grass.

Stephanie 21:42

And it's good for the environment too. Like

Dani 21:45

fires?

Stephanie 21:45

Yes.

Dani 21:46

Fires. So these cattle go run these lands, and they eat down. Three foot tall grass.

Stephanie 21:53

Mm-hmm.

Dani 21:53

Through the spring and summer, and then they round'em up and put'em in another place in the winter. Yeah. But it's, you can't manage that.

Stephanie 22:00

And this is proven because there's even been a study on wild horses. We have a lot of wild horses in certain areas of Idaho, and there's a push to round up these wild horses, almost like as if they're a pest. But there's been studies that show. That the benefit of these horse herds being allowed to eat mm-hmm. And keep down, has reduced the fire risk percentage by, and this is stuff that costs money. This costs your city, state, your utility.

Dani 22:34

Mm-hmm.

Stephanie 22:35

Hundreds of thousands, millions and billions of dollars overall.

Dani 22:39

Nevermind homes.

Stephanie 22:42

And properties. Yes. So if there's a way to keep it tamped down to a space that it can't spread

Dani 22:47

recreation areas.

Stephanie 22:48

Exactly. And especially wild horses. They're not a predator to anyone. They spook with humans, like they don't want anything to do with people. And neither do cows usually can. No, cows are not gonna be attacked, you know, although

Dani 23:04

there's been a time or two, I've seen a baby towel out in the middle of a field and I want to take it home,

Stephanie 23:09

you know?

Dani 23:10

They're so cute.

Stephanie 23:12

They are so fucking cute. Yes. Um, cuteness, aggression, sorry. But it's just like no one else is using this land. It's not being used for farming, it's not being used for housing. Like this is owned by someone else.

Dani 23:27

And it's not mountain like we have in Idaho. We have, it's hilly. We have grasslands, like literally where you're getting three foot tall grass.

Stephanie 23:34

No one's trying to use it for recreation.

Dani 23:36

And if that catches fire, it's dug.

Stephanie 23:38

It goes like so fast. So I just. I wanted to add a little, there's a podcast about the wild horses. I wish I knew it right now, but try to look up like wild horses grazing or something. But there's a whole fucking study and shit. And so just think of the same for, for cat cattle, it has to be similar. At least they're doing the same fucking thing. So,

Dani 24:02

and a lot of these ranchers, if you drive by a, a fence and you're like, why is there. Looks like there's like 20 feet of dirt. They till fire lines.

Stephanie 24:16

Mm-hmm.

Dani 24:16

In their own areas to prevent it jumping. And

Stephanie 24:20

that helps everyone.

Dani 24:22

But they're doing it on, they don't get paid for

24:24

that.

Stephanie 24:24

They're, they're, so, yes, they are protecting their own land. Sure. But if you are able to prevent the fire from traveling straight through to go to the next thing

Dani 24:33

neighbors,

Stephanie 24:34

that's helping everyone in that general area.

Dani 24:37

There is, Next time you drive through Weezer, up through that way?

Stephanie 24:42

Yeah.

Dani 24:42

Right outside of Weezer, I swear it's like five miles of fence. It's probably one, but it's like, and you see him every year at a certain time when the grass gets to a certain spot and I'm like, ah, he's got his fire line and he's tilling up that whole thing along his fence and it's fantastic. It's, it's smart. So we saw that.

Stephanie 25:05

When we went through Durkey, there was a Dikey fire, not last year I think, but the year before. And we had to travel through Durkey, Oregon to get to a, our family that lives in like Central Oregon. And almost all of the farmland was left because they had done this and had protected. And what's funny is also the, there were so many power poles. That were protected and not burned. And you could tell it was because they had put like a 10 foot, I don't know how many foot barrier, and there was these sheets of stuff around them. So you could see all the burnt and the pole was in pristine condition. Wow. And so it's like, this is the type of shit that people don't think about on the farmer thing and on the utility side of like. If, if this wouldn't have happened for one more houses would've been burned, the fire would've been more catastrophic for everyone. And, and utilities power would've been out if the, these preventative things wouldn't have happened. So I feel like people are being responsible and I think

Dani 26:08

if most ranchers and farmers,

Stephanie 26:11

it seems like a, it might seem weird to folks that aren't around this area, but. I don't feel like people are abusing it and being like, I want my cows to be running on the road all the time. Thank you.'cause that's their right. No one thinks that.

Dani 26:24

Well, and, and to go back to that open range law, the insurance companies, like the clarity of the law because it would be, yeah,

Stephanie 26:37

it's

Dani 26:38

very, it would end up in litigation for years. Every free time somebody hit, if

Stephanie 26:43

there's a law though.

Dani 26:44

Right, so the insurance companies like the law because it's very clear.

Stephanie 26:49

Mm-hmm.

Dani 26:50

If it was like there was no open range law and a cow got out and you hid it, then it's just litigation and all that does is cost. I know there's

Stephanie 27:00

no,

Dani 27:00

the big, evil, bad insurance companie. But ultimately that trickles out to

Stephanie 27:05

consumers because no insurance company wants to pay. No. So they're all going to decide to try

Dani 27:09

to, it's just very easy. It's cut, it's it's clear cut. It's the

Stephanie 27:13

law and it's part of the driving test for a reason.

Dani 27:17

Motorists and some environmental and farm groups did not like the, the clarity they call the system outdated and unfair. In a world with more traffic and higher speeds.

Stephanie 27:32

Well, do you want it to be 35 through every open range place? It would take us six hours to get to Riggins, which I don't even know how many aerial miles we are from there.

Dani 27:43

Yeah, it would take forever.

Stephanie 27:45

No one,

Dani 27:46

no. Nobody wants that.

Stephanie 27:48

It's a balance. Be cautious. Look at the signs there. There is signage telling you. If it's snowy, rainy, windy, take that into a channel. We

Dani 27:59

even have signs here that says, watch for deer, watch for elk. Yeah. Across the west, open range traditions went back to settlement days. Idaho, formally defined open range in 1961 as un enclosed lands outside of cities. Towns and designated herd districts. Herd districts were closed range pockets where livestock had to be fenced in in open range. The rules was fence out landowners who did not want their cows on their property had to build and maintain legal fences with specific wire height and post fencing. So these farmers, I'm just telling you the, the guys that are raising the, the corn and the Yeah, the wheat. They had to fence out animals in open range because your crop could be eaten. Right. But it wasn't the ranchers responsibility to keep their cows out of their fields.

Stephanie 29:01

That's a little I would, if I was a corn farmer, I'd be like. I gotta keep your fucking cattle outta here.'cause listen, cows will have a ball.

Dani 29:12

Yeah. They'll destroy stuff. But isn't that a funny thing? So we're all here. Oh, well. Is that fair? About cows online? Think about these. You

Stephanie 29:19

could lose your whole field from just a small amount because listen, cows, they're cows are like puppies.

Dani 29:29

Mm-hmm.

Stephanie 29:30

Like big hungry puppies.

Dani 29:32

Right. Idaho crash data showed that in 2014, nearly 1100 collisions involved wildlife and about 300 involved domestic animals. So you can definitely see like the chances of hitting a deer are four times higher, or a bear or whatever wild animal than actually hitting a domesticated animal. Yeah. Two of the domestic animal crashes were fatal. One woman died when she hit a horse in a closed range near Eagle. Another motorcyclist died. Ooh, yeah. In open range. In Idaho County in a wreck involving, involving his dog and another vehicle crashes with livestock were not as common as collision with deer and elk, but they were regular enough that people along rural highways state alert and highway signs warned open range.

Stephanie 30:35

And it's just the reality

Dani 30:37

eyeballs out. We drive through that all the time. Uh, especially brigans to New Meadows.

Stephanie 30:43

Mm-hmm.

Dani 30:44

You have to be super,

Stephanie 30:45

there's so much farmland.

Dani 30:46

Yeah. Uh, and the wild animal portion of it is

Stephanie 30:52

sometimes they even put up those I don't know what they're called, those warning signs that

Dani 30:59

elk crossing deer.

Stephanie 31:01

Like the temporary ones? Yeah. That'cause when they're

Dani 31:04

migrating or the time of year it is,

Stephanie 31:06

they'll be like. Please watch for elk or please watch for wildlife. and when you see that it's for a reason

Dani 31:15

and then you keep your eyes peeled

Stephanie 31:17

and you slow down on corners, or if it's foggy, rainy, snowy. Mm-hmm.

Dani 31:21

and your peripheral vision on the, when you're making that drive, especially right before New Meadows where it's all like that beautiful grassland area. Eyeballs out.

Stephanie 31:31

Eyeballs out. Yes, a hundred percent. And just having that extra awareness of not only'cause some, some of these roads are, get curvy and stuff, and this is a wild animal, has no regard, no one has responsibility for them. So you better just fucking watch out. And there's times when you can't avoid, but. You have to, if there's a lit up sign, a temporary sign saying elk scene, you know, if elk crossing, there's always plenty of signage. You've, you've got to know that that's a risk. It's the reality of our state.

Dani 32:21

In 2004, a cyclist in Lincoln County had a calf and died. His family sued arguing. The rancher failed to maintain fencing along the road. Idaho Supreme Court sided with the open range law. The family lost environmental groups such as Western Watersheds and some agricultural organizations representing grain producers kept pushing for changes. Ranch groups, including the Idaho Farm Bureau, defended the system and argued that no fence could ever keep every cow in and that big bulls could burst through anything when spooked trudat.

Stephanie 32:59

Well, and listen, you cannot build, think of the size of some people's property. It's not like you can build a wall that's 12 feet long and bulletproof.

Dani 33:13

No,

Stephanie 33:14

you can do barbed wire. And what are those posts?

Dani 33:21

TPOs?

Stephanie 33:21

Yeah, the thank you. Because it's, and that is super effective. Yeah, but if something, but if you can't guarantee,

Dani 33:31

okay,

Stephanie 33:31

a gopher digs out your pole and then it falls down. What

Dani 33:36

if somebody hits your fence and breaks it and you don't even know?

Stephanie 33:39

And nobody knows because no, there was no fatalities.

Dani 33:44

Yeah,

Stephanie 33:44

no police were called. No crash incident was reported. You might have 15 miles of fence line. Even if you only have a small piece of property. That's just like right along that now who's at fault? So anyway, someone else fucked up your shit. So this is just how it is in Idaho. And listen, I wouldn't want to hit a fucking cow and I would be pissed if I did hit a cow. I feel so bad. I would. I would feel awful. Also, I wouldn't really wanna pay that as well. And. It's so opposite of, that's why people fail it on the driving test. It's so different that, oh, you can have your cow in the road, and it's my fault. Yep. But again, ranchers do not want their cattle to be blasted by your car.

Dani 34:45

In general. They're not looking for that. That larger legal and cultural backdrop mattered on November 1st, 2015. It shaped how people thought about the crash with the Anis Bull, the way ranchers and law enforcement respond, and later the way Dory and Jack Garner spoke about what happened to them.

Stephanie 35:08

Mm-hmm.

Dani 35:11

Jack and Dory Garner had married in September of 2015 and Lacrosse Washington. Between them, they had eight grown children. They had met. On an online site for members of their church and their families. Called them the Brady Bunch. Couple how cute. For Halloween, they drove to lacrosse so Dory could join her mother and extended family making popcorn balls, something they had done for almost 60 years. And on the way home they chose us 95 so they could stop in Lewiston to see one of Jack's sons. So we have two jacks in the store. We have Jack Garner and Jack Antti. So

Stephanie 35:52

thank you.

Dani 35:53

Just to clarify, uh, so yeah, the Garners went on a little weekend trip to go help grandma make these popcorn balls that she's been making. Mm-hmm. And there's other ways to get down Oregon or Washington down to Idaho, but us 95 is a pretty popular choice. It's, that's

Stephanie 36:13

the way to

Dani 36:13

go. It's the only choice if you're actually in Idaho. but there's ways to get through Washington and Oregon and come down to the Valley, but. On the evening of November 1st, they headed south in their Subaru wagon with their small dog, Chloe, who was in the kennel in the back. Dory remembered stopping at a rest area outside of Ricks. After that, her memory went blank. The conditions were clear and dry, but it was dark and there were no lights along that part of the road. There's no lights along. It's pitch black. A lot of that road.

Stephanie 36:51

This is a road where if there is no one ahead of you. You should probably have your brights on.

Dani 36:57

Yeah.

Stephanie 36:57

If there's no fog or anything For sure.

Dani 37:01

the Idaho Transportation Department later wrote that the garners were on a downhill straightaway, but Jack Garner believed there had been a curve that limited his view. He later told his family members that they came around a corner and suddenly there was the biggest black cow. He said there was no time to do anything.

Stephanie 37:23

Well, and that's something that's dependent on speed as well, because,

Dani 37:28

and it's 55 through there.

Stephanie 37:29

Yeah.

Dani 37:31

The,

Stephanie 37:31

the next time I go through here, I'm going to be incredibly focusing on this area.

Dani 37:36

Okay. Uh, I think I have mile markers too in the story, so you can eyeball that. If not, I could

Stephanie 37:43

find it. I'm gonna Google map it. Okay. And I'm just gonna next time,'cause this is the route that we take to go to many. Extra outdoor activities, many extracurricular activities that we love. So the next time I drive this stretch, I'm going to be intensely

Dani 37:59

focused

Stephanie 38:00

on it. Okay. I

Dani 38:01

just showed the guys we went up there last weekend. I'm like, this is right here.

Stephanie 38:04

Okay. This is

Dani 38:05

the place. Oh, actually, let me show you.

Stephanie 38:13

Danny is such a queen. Oh, it's not a long picture. Oh my gosh.

Dani 38:19

Look how big that

Stephanie 38:20

is. I just saw a big ass bowl is what I've seen. Where can they find this if they want to find it? Was it part of a news story?

Dani 38:27

Yeah. Uh, Idaho statesman, Idaho state. You wanna go look up the

Stephanie 38:30

Yeah, there's a picture of the bowl and that's a big old bull for sure.

Dani 38:38

The Subaru hit the bull squarely in the center of the bumper. The impact flattened the hood and drove the animal into the windshield and roof.

Stephanie 38:47

And let me just say that if this type of thing happens, the general advice is not to swerve wildly, is to break as hard as you can if you can and

Dani 38:59

hit square.

Stephanie 39:01

And so that's what you can do. because swerving wildly often ends up flipping the vehicle or ending up mm-hmm. In a ditch ravine. So

Dani 39:13

Well, and Jack said he really didn't even like it was just

Stephanie 39:17

there.

Dani 39:18

There.

Stephanie 39:18

And you know what,

Dani 39:21

they probably hit that bull going 45 miles an hour.

Stephanie 39:24

I can't believe he didn't kill him.

Dani 39:26

Oh, they. More to come.

Stephanie 39:30

Okay.

Dani 39:31

The one ton bull came down into the front of the car, essentially landing in the couple's laps. You saw the pictures,

Stephanie 39:38

what the fuck?

Dani 39:39

Both suffered bleeding, concussions and multiple injuries. Dory's left side and head took the brunt. She later learned she had broken bones and her neck and back. Deep cuts on her face and hand and nerve damage that temporarily froze her left eye at a strange angle. She had staples in her scalp and stitches across her forehead. She wore a neck brace and a rigid torso brace for months while the bone's healed.

Stephanie 40:10

I know, and I imagine you're so, after a traumatic experience like that, you're probably so happy to be alive, but it doesn't mean it doesn't suck, you

Dani 40:17

know? Oh, no, it was, yeah. Jack suffered a concussion and a dislocated collarbone. Ouch. And collapsed when he tried to walk around the car to help Dory.

Stephanie 40:28

Oh,

Dani 40:28

he's trying to be, that they were just newly married

Stephanie 40:33

and just, you know, that's tough. I, I think that most people know that with the adrenaline of something that this happened, that they try to be helping someone and having your body not cooperate with you to do that would be fucking weird.

Dani 40:50

Yeah. He's trying to go help his wife and he just, he can't, I mean, he walks around, but he mm-hmm. He doesn't get there. emergency crews from council and nearby departments responded. Paramedics and firefighters. P pried open the Subaru, extricated the garners, and began treating them in the dark lights from emergency vehicles lit the wreck. Scene the bull, badly injured and agitated, moved around and then lay near the highway.

Stephanie 41:20

Oh, that fucking

Dani 41:21

at some point is staggered into the yantis driveway and then back onto the road. Witnesses said it charged at responders and passing vehicles.

Stephanie 41:32

Oh my gosh, that is so terribly sad.

Dani 41:38

Yeah,

Stephanie 41:38

you got injured people, an injured animal, and then the animal even. Even if it's like a listless charge, it's a huge animal. So even an animal walking at you at like a somewhat fast pace to me would be like, holy shit, a bowl. I can't

Dani 42:02

put in to perspective how large a 2,500 pound bull would be. It's, it's amazing. And it would be very scary. Well, and it's, you know, an

Stephanie 42:15

animal injured, they make no sense. They're in survival mode. Yeah. And they, I don't know if you've ever had a dog that's injured, that has never been aggressive to you, and maybe they get there, get, they get hit by a vehicle and then they act aggressive because you've picked them up because they're in so much pain or whatever. Like it's in, like you said, it's unpredictable. Mm-hmm. Because,

Dani 42:43

and you have first responders out there trying to help these people, and then you have this animal. It's basically

Stephanie 42:49

imagine getting hit by a car at 30 miles an hour. Are you gonna act. Appropriately. And Harry, he hit his head

Dani 42:59

jumping into the truck and he acted like a complete idiot.

Stephanie 43:02

He was concussed and he went on a mission and he ran away from his parents, and he thought he was gonna live his own life in the woods by himself forever.

Dani 43:11

He did have a little scab, poor little shit.

Stephanie 43:13

He said, I'm going out here by myself.

Dani 43:16

This truck is mean to me.

Stephanie 43:18

This truck tried to kill me. I'm never going in that truck again, and I can be out here as an outdoorsman for the rest of my life.

Dani 43:27

This is my little 16 pound white dog, by the way, couldn't survive. If you can think of the stereotypical like little fluffy white dog,

Stephanie 43:35

that's the dog. Occasionally, little tear scenes. Danny does a wonderful job of grooming, but you know, there's no getting around it.

Dani 43:43

No,

Stephanie 43:44

they're gonna happen. It's that dog. And he thought he was gonna live by himself in the wilderness. He, he was mad because he tripped and had a little kerfluffle. Yeah, getting into the vehicle and concussed himself, and he said,

Dani 43:58

I'm running away. Bye. Nobody loves me

Stephanie 44:02

anymore. That truck tried to hurt me and fuck you guys. I'm fine.

Dani 44:08

Bye.

Stephanie 44:09

And then he realized after a few short minutes, hours, I don't know

Dani 44:15

that that might not be a good plan for him. He

Stephanie 44:17

said, oh, you guys aren't gonna be here though.

Dani 44:22

Okay. I guess I'll, well,

Stephanie 44:23

that, that does change things.

Dani 44:26

I like my food, so

Stephanie 44:28

I can't just run up to the cabin and, oh, you guys are outta here. Oh

Dani 44:33

shit. Okay.

Stephanie 44:34

Anyway, I think I'm all right.

Dani 44:37

I'm good. Let's go.

Stephanie 44:38

I think I'm gonna be okay. Thank you guys for your concern though.

Dani 44:43

But because it was open range and because the bull belonged to a local rancher, dispatchers did what they usually did. They called the owner to come put the animal down, and in this case, when it's

Stephanie 45:01

clear that this bull is injured and acting erratically and listen, hm? For anyone that hasn't had to like pick up their half dead dog from being hit by a car or whatever, maybe you may not know. I'm sure you can imagine, but you might not know. It still sucks. It sucks a lot, but to see your animal hurting and injured irreparably, it's usually somewhat clear and every instance is different.

Dani 45:49

Yep.

Stephanie 45:50

Don't get me wrong. But it's like people that own livestock, horses, sheep, cows, chickens, whatever. Yeah. Ha.

Dani 46:00

It's part of the,

Stephanie 46:01

you, it's

Dani 46:01

part of the gig. You never want it to happen, but you have a sick animal. You have an injured animal. That's air. I mean, yeah.

Stephanie 46:14

It sucks regardless, but it's, it is part of that

Dani 46:17

life. But they call the owner like, we're not doing this.

Stephanie 46:20

And the owner, just like with your pets, I,

Dani 46:27

I wouldn't wanna

Stephanie 46:28

vett

Dani 46:28

deciding for me

Stephanie 46:29

or

Dani 46:29

a, if

Stephanie 46:29

my animal a cop.

Dani 46:31

Yeah. No, I don't want anybody else deciding for my That's a

Stephanie 46:34

courtesy.

Dani 46:35

Yep. And so that's what they did up there. That's the kind of, that's the kind of county it is area. Everyone knew them is the area.

Stephanie 46:40

Yeah.

Dani 46:42

At the Antos Ranch up on the hill above the highway, Jack and Donna were finishing dinner with her nephew, rowdy. And a family friend Joe Rumsey. It was about 6:45 PM when the Adams County dispatcher called the house. One of their bulls had been hit on the highway. The dispatcher asked Jack to come down and take care of it. Jack had done that grim job before ranchers in that county accepted that when their livestock were hit, it was their responsibility to end the animal suffering.'cause you can't fix it. So rowdy, walked down the driveway ahead of the others to see what was happening. He found the injured bull near the driveway, and later said the animal knew it was at home hurt, but still ready to fight. The bull weighed about 2,500 pounds and it was named Kiefer. It's rear leg was shattered. Rowdy said it was still quote, an Angus bull on the fight. Unquote. They're feisty. They're not gonna recoup from a shattered back leg, but they're still, no. So Jack told Rowdy to get the skid steer loader and a chain so they could haul the carcass away. Jack knew what's happening. He knows what's going down. Rowdy asked Donna to bring the families, I'm gonna say this wrong. I'm pretty sure I should have called my dad again. Uh, 2 0 4 Caliber Ruger rifle down to the road. Jack took a small four-wheeler down to the drive and parked it near the highway facing the bull. So Jack's down there with his four wheeler. He told rowdy, Hey, go get the skid steerer loader.'cause once they, once he puts the bull down, he got, he has to get it off the highway. Yeah. By that time, two Adam County deputies, Brian Wood and Cody Rowland had arrived at the crash scene. Emergency workers focused on the garners, the humans. Right. Yeah.

Stephanie 48:48

Because obviously, yeah,

Dani 48:50

the bull kept moving and charging. According to the deputies, it had to be stopped for everyone's safety. at some point they began shooting at it.

Stephanie 49:00

No shit. Yeah. And

Dani 49:05

rowdy later described hearing a lot of gunfire before Jack got there. He believed at least one deputy had a semi-automatic rifle, possibly an AR 15. He said the deputies opened up with pistols and then rifles, and that their shots riled the wounded animal and made it charge again. He called it blazing down there and he said it sounded like World War III directed at the bull. The animal finally went down on the pavement, but was still alive and breathing,

Stephanie 49:42

and that is shitty. I wish that someone could have administered a, an an effective kill shot, and my opinion might change based on the story. I know we've still got a lot of story left, but for me, if EMTs are trying to administer lifesaving, you know, measures, even if they're not lifesaving, just. People are hurt, they're broken in some type of way.

Dani 50:10

Humans went over

Stephanie 50:10

cows

Dani 50:12

Donny Antti walked the rifle to her husband, Jack. She handed it to him near the bull. Jack checked it and prepared to put the bull out of its misery with a shot behind the head.

Stephanie 50:26

Yeah,

Dani 50:27

rowdy parked the skid-steer so that the light shone on Jack and the animal. Within minutes, Jackie Andante would be dead.

Stephanie 50:38

What is happening?

Dani 50:41

From this point forward, the accounts diverged shortly

Stephanie 50:46

greatly.

Dani 50:47

Yeah,

Stephanie 50:48

I can imagine. It already sounds like a very drama, so I'm gonna give you some accounts

Dani 50:55

here. Oh, and this makes me so sad. according to Donna, Jack stood a few feet behind the bull with the rifle pointed at the back of the animal's head. His finger rested on the trigger. He was focused on lining up a humane shot.

Stephanie 51:13

Sure,

Dani 51:13

the deputy stood some distance away in the opposite lane. Donna said she did not hear any argument. She did not recall any warning or command. She saw a deputy come up behind Jack, grab his arm and shoulder, and jerk him back across the center line. Almost off his feet, the rifle stayed in his hands and the barrel pointed downward across his body. She said the deputy had a hold of the scope as Jack tried to regain his balance, both deputies opened fire. She and Rowdy screamed at them to stop. Jack spun as the bullets hit him, clutching the rifle to his chest with a barrel up toward the sky, and then he fell into the southbound lane

Stephanie 52:10

first impression. Awful. Um,

Dani 52:17

so that's his,

Stephanie 52:18

and things escalate this way when there's multiple fire arms and it's dark. Even if it's different law enforcement agencies, this type of shit can happen. Mm-hmm. I'm not justifying it or normalizing it, but I'm just it sounds like something triggered a cluster fuck is what it sounds like to me.

Dani 52:43

Rowdy told investigators from the moment a deputy grabbed Jack until the moment he fell. Jack never had his feet under him. He said Jack never let go of the rifle and kept it down across his body. From about 10 feet away, rowdy watched one deputy grab Jack's vest and pull him toward the yellow line, then push away from him. Both deputies fired, rowdy, believed the last shot came after Jack was already on the ground and not moving. He remembered seeing sparks on the pavement from the final round. He later said the deputies seemed smug afterward, and that one of them threw Jack's rifle into the grass. The deputy's version was different.

Stephanie 53:36

It always is. Just generally just saying.

Dani 53:40

Wood said Jack came down angry that the deputies had shot his bull and not killed it. Woods said Jack loaded his bolt action 2 0 4 rifle, walked past him and told him, quote, put that piece of shit away, or something similar, referring to Wood's Patrol Rifle Wood said Jack then positioned himself so that shooting the bull would mean firing towards first responders and the crashed car Wood said he told Jack to quote, hang on, and took a step forward. And that Jack swung the rifle across his belly and pointed it towards them.

Stephanie 54:26

This is tough because I'm just gonna give you my initial reaction is people trained in gun safety, which, listen, even if you're in a very gun positive family, whichever way you lean doesn't always mean that you've been trained in actual gun safety. So it sound, from what I've gathered, it sounds like this is a person who will know the basic rules and no-nos, and you know, you don't ever point a gun towards someone that you don't plan to destroy or kill.

Dani 55:04

Mm-hmm.

Stephanie 55:07

So that's where I'm leaning with this is I don't think that. Someone like that, that knows that their animal's injured and knows that there's first responders there caring for people that I don't think even when people hit hit cows that a farmer's gonna come out and only care about their cow'cause they know how much damage it's gonna cause. So maybe I'm thinking better of people than most others do. I don't think so though, because a farmer doesn't wanna lose their cow to this, it, it's never going to easily benefit them.

Dani 55:51

and I'm not, I'm not gonna comment right now'cause I want you to hear more. Okay. Because

Stephanie 55:56

that's just tough for me to believe the, that the rancher was he, he shot intentionally towards EMTs? Yeah.

Dani 56:06

Wood said he yelled at Jack to point the gun down. He said that as Roland stepped upon his left and bared a command, Jack shoved the rifle towards Roland at waist level. Wood said he heard a gunshot that he believed came from Jack's rifle, so he raised his own AR 15 and fired into Jack as fast as he could. He said Jack stayed on his feet longer than he expected and kept hold of his rifle. I'm sorry. Um,

Stephanie 56:47

getting a gunshot from an AR 15 is an incredibly traumatic wound. No matter, like

Dani 56:57

wait till you

Stephanie 56:57

hear your size,

Dani 56:58

wait till you hear how many times they shot'em. Roland told investigators that he believed Jack's firing position would send a bullet towards the first responders. And Donna, he said he knew how thick a bull skull was and he did not want round traveling south. Who's thinking about the skull width of a bowl? Nobody

Stephanie 57:21

in this type of quick. Mm-hmm. Someone's like, if I just calculate the skull width of a bowl, no one is fucking, I'm sorry. And I'm a very analytical person. I'm not thinking about the skull width of the bull.

Dani 57:42

He said that when wood reached towards Jack's rifle, Jack shoved wood lifting wood's leg off the ground. Roland said he tried to draw his pistol. He said Jack turned toward him and fired from the hip. Roland said he fired three or four rounds at Jack's rifle and stopped when he saw the barrel go down and thought Jack had shot him because he felt pain in his ribs fired at the rifle. I'm sorry, but I don't know what type

Stephanie 58:15

of law enforcement hunting, survival training tells you to shoot at the gun. I don't think anyone tells you that. Listen, I'm just a small, simple, fragile woman. I could be very wrong about this,

Dani 58:34

but you know what?

Stephanie 58:35

Who's shooting at the gun

Dani 58:37

later test showed no bullet wound on Roland

Stephanie 58:43

is that

Dani 58:46

was the pain in your hip because you needed to take a shit.

Stephanie 58:51

You know, sometimes some of us have indigestion, Danny, and it's, it's a very serious and not talked about symptom.

Dani 59:02

An autopsy later showed that Jack Yantis had multiple gunshot wounds to his arms and abdomen and a fatal wound through his chest. The bullet that killed him passed through both lungs and shredded his aorta. Jack had been shot 12 times.

Stephanie 59:26

And listen, I know that my experience is different and I've just seen so many things like this where, and there's a few that have been justified, but there's so many that are not justified of someone under police, like 12 enforcement, and as soon as one shot rings out, it's like a fucking free for all opinion. And it almost sounds like this might have been the case as well, because I mean, if it's pitch dark. How many, how many shots didn't hit? He was shot 12 times. How? These aren't marksmen, I'm sorry. They're, they're not, they're not required to be marksmen.

Dani 1:00:22

As Jack lay bleeding on the pavement, neither deputy went to him. Instead they ordered Donna and rowdy to the ground at

Stephanie 1:00:31

gunpoint. And that's another thing that prove, and this is constant. Sometimes they will shoot someone to death to where the point where they've turned into some, someone into Swiss cheese and they're screaming at the person to not resist as, as they're literally dead and putting their knees and their neck.

Dani 1:00:52

Donna said. Roland pointed his gun at her head. Both she and Rowdy were searched and handcuffed in the road. Rowdy said one deputy held an AR 15 to the back of his head and he believed they were about to be shot. Fuck, that's an E

Stephanie 1:01:10

execution move. I don't care how much I am respecting or cooperating with police or whatever. If someone holds an AR 15,

Dani 1:01:23

they were handcuffed

Stephanie 1:01:26

to my head. Why

Dani 1:01:30

you think

Stephanie 1:01:31

you're gonna shot? Do I have have a bomb on me? Like

Dani 1:01:33

you think you're gonna be shot? If somebody points a gun at me, I think I'm gonna be shot

Stephanie 1:01:36

and AR 15. This is not a BB gun. This is

Dani 1:01:45

a family friend Joe Rumsey, who had moved closer from the crash car. Was also handcuffed because he saw all that stuff going on, right?

Stephanie 1:01:53

And he's just trying to be like, what the hell's going on?

Dani 1:01:56

He later admitted he had picked up all the shell casings and throwing them down after a deputy confronted him. I wish he wouldn't have done that, Joe. Joe don't. Don't. Anyway, Joe Donna went into cardiac arrest at the scene. Fuck. She was taken by ambulance to Midvale and then by a helicopter to Boise where doctors performed angioplasty and inserted three stents in her arteries. She spent more than two weeks in the hospital, so she just saw her husband shot to death, and then she has a fucking heart attack while she's in handcuffs,

Stephanie 1:02:33

which honestly, I'm surprised that they even allowed like medical evac because a lot of times when this happens. There's been documented cases of people that have been put in jail and they're having like a seizure or some absolutely critical thing, and they're like, you're faking. And then they fucking die.

Dani 1:02:54

Mm-hmm.

Stephanie 1:02:55

Because it's like, no, they weren't faking

Dani 1:02:59

this poor woman. Uh, this poor bull. Hmm. The bull lay alive for about two more hours.

Stephanie 1:03:06

No shit

Dani 1:03:07

slowly dying on the roadway. Family members said it's suffocated in its own blood from gunshots.

Stephanie 1:03:13

I bet. Yeah. Great.

Dani 1:03:15

Jack was just so, Jack was pissed. Listen, Jack was pissed that those deputies fucking willy-nilly shooting an AR 15 into the side of a fucking bull. That's not how you kill a bull. That's not how you calm down a bull. You don't put more, he was pissed when he went down there and I would've been too.'cause it is going to put them in a state of. Fight or flight. And they're fighting. They're already fighting. So can you imagine how you would feel, and I know a dog is not a cow, but if somebody hit your dog with a car and then they just shot it one time in the stomach and then it's like, I was trying to put it out of its misery, calm it down, it was growling at me

Stephanie 1:04:01

and now it's growling at me more.

Dani 1:04:03

Yeah,

Stephanie 1:04:03

it's being aggressive with me.

Dani 1:04:06

I'm gonna say for the record that the, these deputies were fucking idiots for shooting up a bull like

Stephanie 1:04:12

that. Especially because you would,

Dani 1:04:14

they made'em more agitated.

Stephanie 1:04:16

You would hope they would know better in this area.

Dani 1:04:20

Well, we got more story to go. Sheriff Zoman later said that when he arrived, the animal was already dead by the road and that he did not know who had finally killed it. I don't know who killed it. I don't know if it just laid there and died. Emergency crews at the scene had to pivot from treating the garners to dealing with a shooting. Chrissy Gepe, an EMT with Council Valley EMS and the county's emergency dispatcher later told state detectives that she and others were still loading. Dory Garner into the ambulance when they heard shots, someone told them it was probably the bull being put down, so they kept working. Later, a firefighter opened the side door and said someone was down up the hill and needed help. Guy ran up and saw bodies on the ground in the dark, rowdy lay face down, yelling, threats such as that he should go kill the deputy's family.

Stephanie 1:05:22

God damn.

Dani 1:05:23

Another figure lay on his back in the lane of the highway. Guyon Senior EMT, Jeff Canfield, melt by Jack Tis. He was not breathing and had no pulse. They saw large wounds and his abdomen inside. They cleared blood from his mouth, tried to open his airway, and then realized there was nothing more they could do. His eyes were already fixed and then they covered him with a blanket.

Stephanie 1:05:51

Shit.

Dani 1:05:55

Since Sarah Jack and Donna's daughter arrived, she was also an EMT. She wanted to start CPR, and her father guy told her there was no hope, and then called Sarah's husband over to lead her away from the scene. Oh God, what a fucking tragedy. The first Idaho State police Trooper Mark Wright, arrived around 8:46 PM more than an hour after the shooting, He met Sheriff Zalman and asked if the dash camera had recorded. He wanted to know whether the deputies had been separated. Zalman told them that they were both in an ambulance and had been there for over an hour. Wright reacted with concern because standard protocol was to separate officers involved in a shooting and keep them from talking to each other before formal interviews. That's the, and that should be the standard with any case, especially and including law enforcement. EMT. Ry Smith later said she warned the deputies not to talk. She recalled hearing wood tell Roland that he knew that they were not supposed to discuss anything and that he only wanted to know whether Roland had seen the rifle. She heard Roland say he saw the flash and nothing else. Smith said she cut the conversation off. She and another EMT, Shanna Roth both said the deputies were never alone. So what they're saying is yes, they were together. The only question he really asked was, did you see the flash from the rifle? And then she's like, shut it.

Stephanie 1:07:38

Which let me just say, that shouldn't even be a part of their job. If you are part of law enforcement and you want to be to keep the lines separated, then you should do it yourself just, and have. One of my favorite quotes, and I don't even know where it comes from, is. Manage yourself so that other people don't have to manage you. And it's more eloquent, but that's the gist of it. Yeah. And if we could rely on that with law enforcement, then when law enforcement investigates themselves and finds no fault in the fucking ridiculous things that we've all seen as civilians of other things that have happened. Maybe we trust it, but then you see this shit. And even though the EMT said, yeah, they tried to talk about this. What all happened before you were in the ambulance? Mm-hmm. What all happened when they were walking there? Mm-hmm. What all happened before they were huddling outside chatting. It just makes it so much more fucking ridiculous. And here's my thing, there can be one bad cop, and if there's 99 good cops. That will cover and not do anything about that bad cop and just pretend they didn't see anything and look the other way and not comment on cases. Then you have a hundred bad cops.

Dani 1:09:14

Mm-hmm. both deputies had their phones. Sheriff Zoman brought Roland's phone from his vehicle. Smith said each of the men called their wives.

Stephanie 1:09:29

Okay.

Dani 1:09:30

ISP later said that it did not check phone records to see whether the deputies communicated with one another. After the shooting, investigators said they. Did not believe they had. How hard is this anyway?

Stephanie 1:09:45

I don't like that type of statement. No, I don't believe they have.

Dani 1:09:48

Yeah.

Stephanie 1:09:49

We have the ability to say yes or no,

Dani 1:09:52

because all that does for me is put more credibility into the EMTs, uh, statements. is that No, they didn't talk about anything. This is the one question that they said, and then the other guy said, Hey, we are not gonna talk about this. We're not supposed to talk about it. And then they both called their wives. It, if you just check the phone records, it would put more credibility. And I'm not saying that the EMT person is not credible, it just puts more credibility into that statement because then it, it's just a line.

Stephanie 1:10:17

It's a verifiable.

1:10:19

So

Dani 1:10:19

trust. Trust. It's aligning. It's aligning.

Stephanie 1:10:21

You trust because it's an EMT.

Dani 1:10:22

Yeah.

Stephanie 1:10:23

But then verify, trust, verify,

Dani 1:10:25

and then it just makes it verify. It just makes it, it just puts a stamp of approval on it.

Stephanie 1:10:29

Yeah.

Dani 1:10:30

I'm wanna say the EMT is lying or anything, but it just gives more value. To the statement when,'cause we're all little CSI people now, right? We want evidence, we want it all, you know,

Stephanie 1:10:44

and it's there.

Dani 1:10:45

Yeah.

Stephanie 1:10:46

There's,

Dani 1:10:46

so,

Stephanie 1:10:46

there's oftentimes we get That was not a hard to get it.

Dani 1:10:48

That's, that would not be hard to get it all. No. Okay. So anyway, the deputies were eventually taken separately to the sheriff's office and counsel. Their uniforms and weapons were collected for evidence. The nearest hotels were far away. We know this, so

Stephanie 1:11:07

there's nothing,

Dani 1:11:08

they were not put up offsite as protocols would've required. Neither ma'am was interviewed immediately in ADA County and under the International Association of Chiefs of Police Guidelines. Formal interviews are usually delayed up to 48 hours, partly to allow the officers to sleep and partly to stabilize memories.

Stephanie 1:11:32

Sure.

Dani 1:11:32

Officers are not allowed to speak to each other during that time. So it's a time for them after, if you've ever had like that spike of adrenaline after a car accident or something, the first thing, like it's not,

Stephanie 1:11:47

you're,

Dani 1:11:47

you're not

Stephanie 1:11:48

the influence.

Dani 1:11:48

Yeah. And you're not clear. You, you don't have a whole thought process behind it.'cause you're still, adrenaline is a huge thing. I'm not talking about adrenaline, like, ooh, we're playing a game and I'm winning. I'm like talking through the

Stephanie 1:12:01

fear.

Dani 1:12:01

Yeah.

Stephanie 1:12:01

Type of adrenal

Dani 1:12:02

fight or flight kind of adrenaline.

Stephanie 1:12:04

The natural like, I'm gonna die.

Dani 1:12:06

Mm-hmm.

Stephanie 1:12:07

Yeah.

Dani 1:12:07

It, it's, it's a whole thing.

Stephanie 1:12:08

Yeah. So there's, there's not a lot of hotel motel, holiday inns around this area. Like true. There just isn't. if you need a place after you've encountered a traumatic event, that's not the place to go.

Dani 1:12:23

So Sure. It's like

Stephanie 1:12:24

get him an Airbnb

Dani 1:12:25

in a small, it's, it's, it's, it's a small town thought, you know, thinking and they're like, just go home. Basically. Like

Stephanie 1:12:33

they don't need a holiday in there. So Holiday Inn, motel six,

Dani 1:12:38

it's

Stephanie 1:12:38

not there. La Quinta, I'm not advertising. There's no La

Dani 1:12:41

Quinta.

Stephanie 1:12:44

No, no, we don't.

Dani 1:12:45

No.

Stephanie 1:12:45

International breakfast. We're asking for that. No.

Dani 1:12:48

So, but that's the standard protocol, but because they're in the back country

Stephanie 1:12:54

is where do you put him? Yeah, yeah. No, I get it.

Dani 1:12:57

Roland gave his first formal interview on November 3rd at the sheriff's office. Woods. Spoke to detectives on November 4th at his attorney's office. Both had legal counsel, I have to say. Fair. I would too.

Stephanie 1:13:11

You know what, what do we always hear? Don't talk to cops.

Dani 1:13:16

Oh, I don't have my cup up here. Yes. So scale. Shut the fuck up. Sh. State Police detectives later said that seven months into the investigation, they still believed parts of their stories conflicted with each other and with the physical evidence. So they called Roland back for a third interview on June 3rd, 2016. In that interview, detectives told Roland directly that they did not believe Woods claimed that he never touched Deis. They pointed out that Donna and Rowdy described a physical struggle'cause they both did.

Stephanie 1:13:53

Mm-hmm.

Dani 1:13:54

In their little recounts. And that Roland himself had said Jack shoved wood. They suggested that wood had actually grabbed Jack and pulled him back. They even told Roland that an attorney general and a federal prosecutor wanted him to become a witness who would clarify what happened and imply that his exposure could be different from woods because he had not fired the fatal round.

Stephanie 1:14:24

So they're just insinuating, we got your back. Things might be a little icky. This is a way that you could make it less icky

Dani 1:14:33

So he, they're saying, Hey, we know this is messy, but we're gonna get you outta the mess because this is your path. Yeah. Roland refused to change his story. He insisted that he would not risk his wife and children's future by lying, and that what he had already said was exactly what he saw. He was like, nice try guys. But no. This is what, this is my story. I'm, I'm sticking to it.

Stephanie 1:15:01

Oh, wow.

Dani 1:15:03

That conflict among the four key witnesses would later play a

Stephanie 1:15:06

central role in the prosecutor's decisions because everybody had, the story was a little bit different for everybody.'cause I, and this is what's so hard when, you know, there's been studies on it of witnessing a traumatic event and especially even being part of it. Every person's story and viewpoint of, and their reality of what mm-hmm. They think happened Once it's set, it's set.

Dani 1:15:33

Mm-hmm.

Stephanie 1:15:33

And it could be wrong, th there could be assumptions that you made, or you know, things you can, your

Dani 1:15:42

memory. You, you can, it has been proven in studies that you can

Stephanie 1:15:48

rewrite it.

Dani 1:15:49

Yep. You can. Thank you.

Stephanie 1:15:50

Of what really happened. Like, and I've seen there's so many where five witnesses will testify. The cop said, drop your gun. Drop your gun several times. And then I heard the cop shoot when cameras show the cop shot, shot, shot, shot, and then said, drop your gun. Drop. And it's just if you hear something or that's just what your brain wants to believe or whatever. That's how you think that it should have played out. Mm-hmm. It can change it.

Dani 1:16:26

Yep.

Stephanie 1:16:26

So it's this

Dani 1:16:28

eyewitness testimony is the least reliable. It's very tricky, but

Stephanie 1:16:33

it's so convincing.

Dani 1:16:34

It is to a jury

Stephanie 1:16:36

and so convincing.

Dani 1:16:37

I know that there have been times where I thought something happened a certain way, and that's. Um, not, not to this degree, right? Mm-hmm. But like

Stephanie 1:16:49

they said this look on a camera at home.

Dani 1:16:51

Yeah.

Stephanie 1:16:51

Where I'll be like, I swear we talked about this and, and then you told me that weird thing. Or, or I swear I brought my purse out with me. Like my purse has gotta be out here somewhere. And I watched the camera. I'm like, the heck I didn't have it.

Dani 1:17:04

Right.

Stephanie 1:17:04

So where is it? Like, it's

Dani 1:17:07

just those simple things like

Stephanie 1:17:08

that, it's very fickle and your brain just wants to make you happy and protect yourself. Mm-hmm. And it will do. Some

Dani 1:17:15

things like, no, I didn't leave that out of the fridge. Like I

Stephanie 1:17:19

would never do that. I've never, I would never

Dani 1:17:21

leave the milk out.

Stephanie 1:17:22

I've never done it. I wouldn't do it.

Dani 1:17:24

Mm-hmm.

Stephanie 1:17:25

Whoopsie, did it look at the cameras?

Dani 1:17:29

Yep, it's me. Hi. And the problem is me.

Stephanie 1:17:34

Yes. I'm not even a swifty. Please don't get that. It's just catchy. I don't want that reputation. Oh, another Swifty reference. Maybe I am secretly a swifty and I don't remember it. Oh my

Dani 1:17:44

God.

Stephanie 1:17:45

Oh, I hate that I said it that way. Anyway, if you're listening, you know you weren't, you did not hear that your memory's deceiving you.

Dani 1:17:53

Body camera footage could have settled many of those disputes. It did not exist. It wasn't, they didn't have it for the, oh, you're gonna be pissed.

Stephanie 1:18:04

Oh my God.

Dani 1:18:05

Adams County had equipped deputies with taser axon body cameras. Roland later said he left. His in his vehicle that night. Wood said he had his camera on in standby mode during the incident and believed he had activated it when the bull became an issue so that it would record. He told detectives he thought it had captured the bull shooting and then continued through the encounter with YIs. A forensic review of the camera proved otherwise. Oh. Like they might have ways to prove whether that is correct or not. The device activities log showed it had not recorded anything on November 1st until 7:36 PM roughly 10 minutes after the shooting.

Stephanie 1:18:53

Oh,

Dani 1:18:53

it then tried to record twice more about 20 minutes later. The log also showed the camera's memory had been full since October 24th.

Stephanie 1:19:04

Oh, so

Dani 1:19:05

a week before.

Stephanie 1:19:06

It was just not gonna,

Dani 1:19:09

so the taser spokesman explained that the camera had no delete function in the field and that only an administrator could remove footage with an audit trail.

Stephanie 1:19:20

Yeah. Aren't they supposed to be logging this so that if

Dani 1:19:23

so nobody, nobody that the police, they can't delete it, is what? Yeah. This company's saying like, and if anything is adjusted, there is a trail. It needs a A paper trail. Yeah, there's a paper trail. There was no indication that anyone had deleted the video. The simple answer was that Woods Camera did not have space to record and that he had not successfully activated it in time. End of story, dash camera footage from the deputy vehicles also did not exist.

Stephanie 1:19:58

That, and that's been around since. The freaking what? Eighties, nineties? At least. The nineties. Yeah. Like, yeah. At least the nineties.

1:20:07

There

Dani 1:20:08

was so much for ever.

Stephanie 1:20:09

So this is not a new technology, or I am learning, or I'm not used to it. I don't know how to turn it on and make sure that it's ready.

Dani 1:20:18

That is some bullshit. Sheriff Zalman later said the dash cam at the scene was not turned on. Not turned on. Yeah.

Stephanie 1:20:27

It should always be like, I thought that it like activated when they put their lights on or something. It should. I, in my opinion,

Dani 1:20:35

I did not research that. Now I'm pissed. I'm just pi Oops. I left my body cam in my vehicle. That's like, I love my homework at home. Yeah, it's done. I promise.

Stephanie 1:20:46

I know. It's part of my duties.

Dani 1:20:48

The dog ate it. Yeah. I'm pissed. You're, you were right. ISP released that detail and left open questions about training and supervision. Really? Yeah. Outta town. Meeting Zalman said deputies had been advised to wear body cameras and to keep them running more consistently after the shooting.

Stephanie 1:21:11

If you guys could be like a little bit more consistent and like, especially if shots are happening and there's fights and a bull and you know, everything that should trigger you to record something. If you could do it like a little bit more consistently, that would be good. That

Dani 1:21:26

that makes that kind of

Stephanie 1:21:27

cool.

Dani 1:21:29

So investigators had to turn to the physical evidence. No camera. There was three, three shots there for cameras, different

Stephanie 1:21:37

stories.

Dani 1:21:38

So yeah, we had two body cameras not used. Dash cam not used. Okay, so we're at this

Stephanie 1:21:45

What a, what A winky. Dink

Dani 1:21:48

They collected jack's. 2 0 4 Ruger rifle, which lay near the fog line in the northbound lane Wood said he had thrown it away from the body after the shooting and the stock was broken. Tests showed that it had been struck by bullets and the act of throwing it might have caused more damage. A bullet fragment found in the road could have come from the 2 0 4 round, but it was too deformed to link conclusively to the rifle.

Stephanie 1:22:19

Awesome.

Dani 1:22:20

Because they're just trying to figure out if Jack pulled the, pulled the trigger. Yeah. Lab work on Roland's clothing and gear did not confirm that a bullet from Yantis rifle had hit him, because remember he had said he felt, yeah. No obvious bullet hole powder burn or damage consistent with such a hit was found. Investigators also noted that if Yantis had fired at Roland and missed the bullet should have hit something nearby.

Stephanie 1:22:51

I have to just pause to bring up something. I'm not trying to be too squirrely here, but this brought back a memory of, this was a viral video maybe a year ago of a police officer that. They had base, they had put a suspect handcuffed into the back of a cruiser or like a SUV type thing, and this is all on body cam from many ankles where an acorn falls and hits the cruiser. The police officer assumes it's a shot from the handcuffed person that they just searched. They just searched. Where's the gun? Let's, let's try to use a little bit of critical thinking. Thinks it's a gunshot that has hit him. And I might be wrong on this detail or not. I will find the video for us. If you never saw it, it was, it was wild. Um, but they, that cop gets down and then starts blasting into their own cruiser at the handcuffed person. Which causes their partner to also start shooting. Everybody's blasting and like, it was just such a thing. there was memes about cops and acorns for months of like,

Dani 1:24:11

you'll have to show me that.'cause I, I don't think I've seen that, But, um, so, and you know, they're trying to find this bullet that jack shot.

Stephanie 1:24:22

Yeah.

Dani 1:24:22

They did not find ricochet marks on any vehicles or equipment. The only 2 0 4 cartridge in the rifle's chamber had an empty shell casing indicating the rifle had cycled.

Stephanie 1:24:37

Okay.

Dani 1:24:39

Investigators could not determine whether that happened from an intentional shot, an accidental discharge during a struggle.

Stephanie 1:24:47

Yeah.

Dani 1:24:47

Or as a result of the deputy's gunfire striking the weapon because Wonderful. They shot the shit out of that gun.

Stephanie 1:24:57

Okay.

Dani 1:24:57

The absence of clear ballistic proof and the conflicting accounts left prosecutors with a tangle that would take months to untie.

Stephanie 1:25:07

Yeah. Okay.

Dani 1:25:10

In the days after the shooting, Adams County immediately felt the shock.'cause this is a tiny place. Yeah. Remember we're talking 3,800 residents

Stephanie 1:25:19

and I'm gonna, and that's another shock that it escalated to this because if your cops in that town, listen, you know, cops do have a bad reputation sometimes, but I feel like if you know of or know the family of you would think it would spark a little bit more empathy or a little bit more. Decision making, giving yourself some time before making a decision like this to turn this entire thing into such a shit show, but it doesn't appear that was the case here. Like strange.

Dani 1:25:53

so Adams County is 1,365 square miles. That seems pretty significant. I wanna just see, just to compare to like Ada County, if I can find Ada County. Um, it's a large county with a little bit of people.

Stephanie 1:26:17

Yeah.

Dani 1:26:18

So news. Of a longtime rancher killed by deputies over a wounded bull spread quickly throughout counsel and then across Idaho. Everybody knew Jack out there.

Stephanie 1:26:31

Mm-hmm. And this is a traumatic, chaotic thing. Yeah, it's traveling fast.

Dani 1:26:36

The Adams County Sheriff's Office began receiving angry calls and letters, some callers called the deputy's murderers. Others threatened the sheriff and the staff. At one point, a dispatcher became so upset by the calls that she had to leave her post Sheriff Zalman said he brought in a crisis management team from the two C to help his small 10 officer department cope Other law enforcement agencies, including the Idaho Department of Fish and Game, and the Boise Police Department offered to cover calls while his deputies process what happened be, and this didn't just affect the two officers there. Can you imagine what the A, because

Stephanie 1:27:18

then they think you're all in on

Dani 1:27:20

it. Yep.

Stephanie 1:27:21

So, so, yeah. Sometimes that has proven to be true.

Dani 1:27:24

Right? But I think that, uh, in this particular case, I think that the whole community was shocked, which included law enforcement up there. They're worried about their friends, a lot of them. I bet you every out of those 10 people in the, in the office, in the deputy's office, they probably all knew Jack

Stephanie 1:27:46

or knew of him. Yeah. There's no, he

Dani 1:27:47

was a very prominent,

Stephanie 1:27:48

yeah.

Dani 1:27:49

I mean, there's what a handful of cafe like,

Stephanie 1:27:52

and they probably know the people that are calling, which is another thing where it's like, I'm just Susan from, we worked at the grocery store together like.

Dani 1:28:00

Why is she

Stephanie 1:28:01

be, I I wasn't the one out there shooting. Like if you're having to field those calls. Yeah. And that's some bullshit.

Dani 1:28:06

That would be traumatic.

Stephanie 1:28:07

Put the damn cops on the line that were there. Not really. I don't really know what happened. But it sucks when you have to, when something happens with your company or whatever and you have to take, it

Dani 1:28:17

affects everybody.

Stephanie 1:28:18

Yeah.

Dani 1:28:21

The Yantis family grieved and buried Jack. Donna recovered slowly from her heart attack at home. She wore a heart monitor and tried to keep her pulse under 100. She could not attend the public memorial service that drew a standing room crowd at the Council High School gym on November 15th. Friends and classmates from the class of 1971 told stories of boyhood blood brothers ceremonies, football games, deer hunts, first loves and early fist fights that turned into long lifelong friendships. So he had a lot of people that he

Stephanie 1:28:54

was a welllike guy.

Dani 1:28:55

Yeah.

Stephanie 1:28:57

And again, why it. So many people showed up because it's almost unthinkable the small town ness of it. Yeah. Why did it get this much? Like why couldn't anyone there, cops, family, anyone deescalate this? No one could keep a cool head. That's crazy.

Dani 1:29:21

And I do feel, and I know a little bit more than you, but I really do feel like that was the sheriff's. Deputies responsibility,

Stephanie 1:29:29

that's their job

Dani 1:29:30

to,

Stephanie 1:29:31

to deescalate

Dani 1:29:32

to,

Stephanie 1:29:32

for their own safety. For one, and for, I know that it, it's protect and serve. Right. And that's the people in your community.

Dani 1:29:44

His daughter Sarah told about the pussy willows he picked for her every February after she was born.

Stephanie 1:29:50

Oh.

Dani 1:29:51

So she had some, it's kind of a, it's a very sweet story. Oh, I'm gonna tear up. So, and I didn't write this down, so I hope we get it right. Um, she had some medical issues when she was born.

Stephanie 1:30:04

Oh.

Dani 1:30:05

And on the way to take her to a bigger hospital, he stopped and picked up pussy willows for her.

Stephanie 1:30:11

Oh.

Dani 1:30:12

And so that was his thing for her every year. Anyway, I thought it was sweet.

Stephanie 1:30:15

That is really

Dani 1:30:16

cool for some big lumberjack

Stephanie 1:30:18

rancher,

Dani 1:30:18

dude, you know? Big. Yeah.

Stephanie 1:30:21

And that, to continue it.

Dani 1:30:22

Yeah.

Stephanie 1:30:22

That's really sweet.

Dani 1:30:24

people talked about his mischievous grin. His slow deep laugh and the sense that he was always thinking two steps ahead. Several friends said they hope something good for the Valley would eventually come from such a senseless tragedy,

Stephanie 1:30:38

right?

Dani 1:30:39

Meanwhile, the rest of the community is looking for answers. The Sheriff's Office released only basic information.

Stephanie 1:30:46

Typical

Dani 1:30:47

Idaho State Police said their detectives were leading the investigation at the sheriff's request. And I'm sorry it wasn't No,

Stephanie 1:30:55

I know. I just want you to be able to

Dani 1:30:57

see, we're leading the investigation at the sheriff's request and asked for witnesses to come forward. They noted that traffic had been backed up for nearly an hour after the crash, and you're not going anywhere out there. It's, you're sitting. and that there were likely motorists who had seen parts of the scene, even if they had not seen the shooting itself. So they're like, alright. Y'all were sitting out there forever. Give us what you got.

Stephanie 1:31:24

Mm-hmm.

Dani 1:31:24

Please. council school officials brought in counselors for students.'cause it's such a small community. Churches turn

Stephanie 1:31:32

the community's fighting and now you hear this from your parents or

Dani 1:31:35

Yeah.

Stephanie 1:31:35

Your friends' parents and you're hearing different things.

Dani 1:31:37

You'd be like, you could hear like maybe he was, you know, the

Stephanie 1:31:41

tension is real. Yeah.

Dani 1:31:43

That these sheriffs are bad. or maybe

Stephanie 1:31:45

the family's bad

Dani 1:31:46

and tried

Stephanie 1:31:47

to attack, you know, who knows what

Dani 1:31:48

the

Stephanie 1:31:49

rumor mill and, but it's a lot what they're hearing.

Dani 1:31:52

Churches organized a vigil where prayers were offered not only for the Yantis family, but also for the sheriff's office and for the deputies who had fired their guns. The dark weather that week seemed to match the mood. Residents described the atmosphere as one of disbelief and anxiety. Many people were angry at law enforcement. Others tried to withhold judgment until the investigation finished. The local papers editor called the Emotional Weight, a suffocating blanket. I can't imagine that would be the only thing everybody was talking about.

Stephanie 1:32:24

Well, and everyone wants to talk to everyone about it, and it starts creating camps of, it's such a, it's not like, oh, do you like or not like strawberries, who gives a shit? It's, do you think this person was wrong or not? And it's one of those guttural like. Very tearing apart a community style thing.

Dani 1:32:52

Sheriff Zalman, who is part of Pastor Les Scheinberg's congregation. Decided to hold a town hall meeting at a local church on November 10th. He faced about 300 people, nearly half the town's population.

Stephanie 1:33:08

Damn.

Dani 1:33:09

He stood in front of them and he said he came with a heavy heart. He apologized for not speaking sooner. And he said Idaho State Police had not shared details with him.'cause he is not investigating this. Mm-hmm. It's gone, it's out of his pocket.

Stephanie 1:33:23

I do like that he did this because that would be intimidating.'cause So he wasn't there, right? He's just

Dani 1:33:30

No, he went in front of

Stephanie 1:33:32

No, but he wasn't at the

Dani 1:33:34

right. He was not, he showed up later. Uh, of course after.

Stephanie 1:33:37

Okay. The

Dani 1:33:38

sheriff's gonna show up after the deputies have shot somebody. But, um. No

Stephanie 1:33:42

to, to go into a small town mm-hmm. Where everyone is packing and has guns and face it. It's hard in any situation when you, you have to be the face and you weren't the one that did it and things.

Dani 1:33:56

And this, I feel like would be way more intimate than like what you see on these, uh, on TV with people doing these press conferences.

Stephanie 1:34:03

Oh yeah.

Dani 1:34:03

He was.

Stephanie 1:34:04

Everyone knows each other.

Dani 1:34:06

Yeah. He was in his church talking to his community.

Stephanie 1:34:10

Mm-hmm.

Dani 1:34:10

It's a big deal. He promised to talk to the community again when the state and federal prosecutors decided whether to, to charge his deputies and basically he can't say shit. And I feel I, he's

Stephanie 1:34:24

saying, I hear you. I

Dani 1:34:25

hear you. I

Stephanie 1:34:26

wish I had answers,

Dani 1:34:27

but I can't give, even if he. He can't give out. It's an, it's an ongoing investigation. He can't give out details. He's like, I hear you. I hear your frustration. I will tell you when I can tell you, I don't think a lot of people were pleased with that.

Stephanie 1:34:42

It's good to at least acknowledge it because then it's not, they're hiding from us. Right. They won't even talk to us. They

Dani 1:34:47

still felt that way because residents pressed him on several issues. Oh,

Stephanie 1:34:50

I'm sure.'cause then they, they have their opportunity to air their. Griefs with the, with him.

Dani 1:34:55

They wanted to know why the deputy's names had not been released'cause they hadn't been released to the public yet, but in a small town they,

Stephanie 1:35:03

everyone fucking knows.

Dani 1:35:05

Zalman said he had received threats and someone had posted a photo of his own house online.

Stephanie 1:35:11

I'm sure people get psycho crazy.

Dani 1:35:13

He said he was worried about the deputy safety as well. Some asked by the deputies were on paid leave instead of in jail. Others said that they did not trust the government investigations. Of course. I mean, we're talking very conservative.

Stephanie 1:35:29

True. Well, and I mean, especially when anything like this happens, that's a super valid question because if it was any of us, let's, let's say that we're the one that hits the bull and then we get in the kerfluffle with the family and start

Dani 1:35:42

shooting and, and

Stephanie 1:35:43

there was, and no one knows who did what. If we don't have,

Dani 1:35:48

somebody will be in jail

Stephanie 1:35:49

and if we don't end of, don't have the bail to do it. Even if there is a bail, if we can't afford it. We're sitting in jail waiting.

Dani 1:35:57

If somebody gets shot, somebody's going to jail.

Stephanie 1:36:00

Mm-hmm. Period. Not the case in these cop shooting situations.

Dani 1:36:05

Well, and they said not only do they not trust the government investigations, they said all investigations is under one roof of government.

Stephanie 1:36:13

We're investigating ourselves.

Dani 1:36:15

Yeah. One resident said if their tax dollars paid for body cameras, then the body cameras needed to be on.

Stephanie 1:36:23

Fantastic point. This is our, I'll take

Dani 1:36:26

14 of

Stephanie 1:36:26

those. You, you've taken my money.

Dani 1:36:28

Mm-hmm.

Stephanie 1:36:29

Um, just so that you can whoopsy, forget to go and download and offload all your memory and forgot to turn your dash cam on, which should be a in completely. And here's the thing, if you're not doing it. It, it could very well save your own ass if you're behaving

Dani 1:36:51

well. That's

Stephanie 1:36:51

it. If you're behaving well, it could save your own ass.

Dani 1:36:54

This would've saved these deputies so much heartache if that had been on, and if their stories

Stephanie 1:36:59

is was the way, was the way it happened.

Dani 1:37:00

Like, oh,

Stephanie 1:37:01

boom, dude, look, you can see him shooting at us. Whatever. If you're behaving well, you should want your body camera on to be like, yeah, you're not gonna get, not today. I'm doing my job the correct way. Thank you.

Dani 1:37:17

You can check all receipts.

Stephanie 1:37:19

Mm-hmm.

Dani 1:37:20

That is why I saved my emails and shit.

Stephanie 1:37:23

I don't delete'em. Especially work emails. No,

Dani 1:37:25

no.

Stephanie 1:37:26

Someone ever comes and says, Stephanie, um, I asked you for this three months ago and for some reason you never applied. And I'm like, oh, didn't I, I'm gonna include everyone that was involved in this and I'm going to forward the email and say,

Dani 1:37:41

oh gosh. I did

Stephanie 1:37:43

see that I sent you this two months ago, a few

Dani 1:37:47

weeks before. It's attached here for your convenience.

Stephanie 1:37:49

Yeah, I, I,

Dani 1:37:51

I,

Stephanie 1:37:51

have you ever

Dani 1:37:51

used that?

Stephanie 1:37:52

See? Oh gosh. I did attach it here for you. I, who knows what happened. I hope this helps.

Dani 1:37:58

I sent that to you. Yeah.

Stephanie 1:38:00

Oh, I, I hope this helps. Whatever you were needing, especially when they like, CC your boss and they're like, oh, why? And you're like, I'm gonna fucking destroy you. So satisfying. It's I, and that's one of the points where I love corporate speak of like,

Dani 1:38:18

oh, were you looking for this? Oh,

Stephanie 1:38:21

oh, please, please see my previous email. I'm not sure what happened to that.

Dani 1:38:24

I've attached it here. Thank you. And it's not forwarding the email, you actually just attached it. Yeah, you gotta do that, like

Stephanie 1:38:30

has the thing of all of that. So happy

Dani 1:38:33

to help anytime.

Stephanie 1:38:35

Let me know if there's anything else that's needed.

Dani 1:38:39

That meeting. Love that shit. Sorry. That meeting lasted about 45 minutes. That's a lot. organizers asked people not to record it, but one woman filmed it on her phone for a relative who could not attend. Outside counsel. Interest grew. Lieutenant Governor Brad, little himself a rancher, told the Idaho statesman that the shooting was an absolute tragedy. He noted that the Yantis family and he had connections and he said that he doubted there could ever be a fair trial in Adams County Fair? Yeah. He speculated that the deputies might ha not have known exactly where to shoot a bull and that in his own experience, authorities often called ranchers to deal with injured livestock at night. An injured livestock period.

Stephanie 1:39:34

Well, and it's theirs too. Yeah. So I think it's kind of a respect thing as well. Mm-hmm. Like,

Dani 1:39:38

yeah,

Stephanie 1:39:39

you wanna be the one to do it, you know?

1:39:42

Mm-hmm.

Stephanie 1:39:42

Like it's,

Dani 1:39:43

if you can be here in the next 10 minutes, you're gonna do it. Or if you're out of town, do you want us to do it? Or do you have a family member

Stephanie 1:39:49

like, what? What do we need to, yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Which is what? I would want it's, but it's something that the ranchers should be used to is having to put an animal down because they've injured themselves or, and he was,

Dani 1:40:01

that's why

Stephanie 1:40:03

it's weird, this whole thing. Yeah.

Dani 1:40:06

The crash also reignited debate over open range laws. Sure. Environmental advocates such as Western watersheds. Ken Cole argued that absolving livestock owners of liability along high speed highways no longer made sense. Lieutenant Governor, little warned fellow ranchers that if a school bus ever hit a bull, open range law in Idaho would likely change dramatically. True.

Stephanie 1:40:29

Yeah.

Dani 1:40:31

the Idaho Farm Bureau responded that getting rid of open range would not prevent cattle from ever wandering onto roads.

Stephanie 1:40:37

Mm-hmm.

Dani 1:40:37

They're not letting their cows wander on the highway, they're just getting out. and that the law simply recognized the order in which various land uses had arrived in the West. So this has been a ongoing thing. Ranchers are not letting'em just wander around on the fucking highway. They don't want this, they do not want their animals to perish. so I don't know, maybe it's just'cause I've grown up here. I'm okay with the law. It does not bother me,

Stephanie 1:41:03

me either.

Dani 1:41:06

Those legal debates became personal.

Stephanie 1:41:08

Yeah.

Dani 1:41:08

After months in the hospital and grueling recovery, they returned home to Nampa. Their medical bills reached into the tens of thousands of dollars.

Stephanie 1:41:17

I'm surprised it was only that much.

Dani 1:41:19

Jack eventually got back to work as a respiratory therapist. Dory lost her job as a family assistant and nanny, and prepared to look for a new one. Once her body and vision improved.

Stephanie 1:41:31

Sure.

Dani 1:41:31

Because she had that bum eye.

Stephanie 1:41:32

Oh yeah.

Dani 1:41:33

She later said that when she first saw herself in a mirror with staples in her head, stitches in her face, and her eye pulled down and to the side, she thought she looked like a Frankenstein's bride.

Stephanie 1:41:47

That's so awful. I can't imagine looking at yourself.

Dani 1:41:50

You're so grateful. Right? To be alive.

Stephanie 1:41:52

Yeah. But then you're like it to not recognize yourself for any reason is a very unsettling thing.

Dani 1:42:00

She still struggled with double vision, but used corrective lenses to drive. She and Jack tried to get. Yeah. Small pieces of their life, including slow dancing in their living room.

Stephanie 1:42:11

Oh,

Dani 1:42:11

they were newlyweds. Even though they're older, they were newlyweds

Stephanie 1:42:14

and they've been put through the ringer. Yeah. Right off the bat. That's, that's a test to a relationship at 20 years.

Dani 1:42:22

Yeah.

Stephanie 1:42:23

So,

Dani 1:42:24

wow. During, or the full story of the shooting, only after she left the hospital. She said she could not let what happened to Jack Anta stop her from arguing for changes to open range law. She said she respected ranchers and new animals could always push down fences, bubbly Livestock, near high speed highways should be fenced away, or that speed limits should be lower. I will say, I'm not trying to put right down on anything. These ranchers want their animals

Stephanie 1:42:54

mm-hmm.

Dani 1:42:55

Fenced.

Stephanie 1:42:55

And I understand why she's'cause she Oh, absolutely. Has experienced the real life and lifelong consequences of this happening. And just so everyone knows, we are not saying they were driving irresponsibly.

Dani 1:43:11

Absolutely not.

Stephanie 1:43:11

Like we don't know that, and that's not what we're trying to, to say, but, and I appreciate that she said, yes, livestock can. Push down kettle, and I think we may have mentioned this earlier, but there's also people that hit these fences and drive off because they're like, I'm not calling the cops. I can drive away. There's other things that, trees that fall and whatever, sometimes it's fire, you know?

Dani 1:43:34

Yeah.

Stephanie 1:43:36

Things happen when you have hundreds of miles of fence

Dani 1:43:39

and it's unfortunate, but yeah, I, I don't think that they did anything wrong. It is just a incredibly. Horrible experience for everybody involved in this

Stephanie 1:43:51

story. Yeah. And I bet that they were like, this happened, were they gone when this whole, shooting happened? had they already been left the scene?

Dani 1:44:02

I am not sure,

Stephanie 1:44:05

I don't know if they would've remembered it anyway or whatever,

Dani 1:44:07

but mean she

Stephanie 1:44:08

doesn't, no one wanted that to happen is

Dani 1:44:10

I'm

Stephanie 1:44:10

sure. No,

Dani 1:44:10

because there was still, I think they might've still been there because

Stephanie 1:44:15

they could have been put away in.

Dani 1:44:16

Well, and I'm telling you, there's no fast way to get anything up there. So, because I'm just going back to the EMT, still being there and having that other ambulance there where the cops are sitting in. I am sure.

Stephanie 1:44:28

Yeah, they definitely didn't want this to happen. On top of, no, them already being no horrifically injured.

Dani 1:44:35

She pointed out that under current law, she and Jack could, theoretically, be liable not only for their injuries and car damage, but also for replacing the bull. She said crashes like theirs could be rare, not routine. She also expressed gratitude for the emergency workers and deputies who first responded to the crash. And she said she wanted to go back and thank them in person at the time, she offered sympathy to Donny Tis, who had lost her husband in the chaos. So these are good people.

Stephanie 1:45:07

Yeah,

Dani 1:45:07

they're good

Stephanie 1:45:08

people. And they are, they're appreciative for the deputies.'cause they were probably the first on scene. Mm-hmm. And so they're just trying to say, you guys helped us, you know?

Dani 1:45:16

Yeah. Nine days after the shooting, the FBI announced that it would open a separate investigation for possible federal civil rights violations.

Stephanie 1:45:29

Hmm.

Dani 1:45:29

US Attorney Wendy Olson explained that federal law prohibited officers from willfully depriving someone's of constitutional rights, and that excessive force cases often rested on whether an officer's actions were unreasonable under the Fourth Amendment.

Stephanie 1:45:45

Okay,

Dani 1:45:45

so now we got the feds in here.

Stephanie 1:45:47

Ooh.

Dani 1:45:48

She said the federal probe would be independent from the state investigation and that her office would coordinate with the Idaho Attorney's General's office. This is big time. It's

Stephanie 1:45:57

getting serious.

Dani 1:45:58

Yeah. By early 2016, Idaho State police detectives had interviewed more than 40 witnesses and processed thousands of pages of reports, photographs, and forensic lab results. They submitted 28 pieces of evidence to the labs ISP Captain Bill Gardner said detectives worked steadily and would soon return everything over to the attorney General ISP was still waiting on final lab reports in March. So I mean, we're talking November to March takes time and the FBI investigation continued

Stephanie 1:46:33

and they are thorough. Mm-hmm. So they're not doing anything haphazardly quickly.

Dani 1:46:39

Despite that work council residents and NTA supporters grew frustrated with the pace.

Stephanie 1:46:46

It's n it's natural. I mean,

Dani 1:46:49

they want answers, and because it's an investigation, there's no ans there's, there's

Stephanie 1:46:54

no

Dani 1:46:54

information

Stephanie 1:46:55

at all.

Dani 1:46:55

Right? Activist created Justice for Jack Facebook pages and organized rallies. On March 5th, 2016, about 75 people marched through council. Again, calling for transparency, prison sentences for the deputies and a new sheriff.

Stephanie 1:47:12

They're bold. They're coming for everyone.

Dani 1:47:15

because I, and I do think that, sometimes unfortunately, like I understand a police investigation, they can't release any information, but I think that it'll also create this tension and then distrust and,

Stephanie 1:47:30

oh, a hundred percent

Dani 1:47:30

and then it just balls up into

Stephanie 1:47:32

this. No, it does. And. It sucks that the sheriff is also being like they're trying to recall or revote or you know, do whatever they need to do to get him out.'cause he wasn't part of it. But listen, if you're the leader,

Dani 1:47:50

they fall.

Stephanie 1:47:50

It doesn't sound like this was a one-off of, just so happened that one guy's camera was full and the other guy left his in the car. Can we

Dani 1:47:58

use them more consistently Please?

Stephanie 1:48:00

So unfortunately, when you are at the head of an organization. Even if you had, let's say he had documented like, you better do this, you better do this. and you're trying to get it to happen. If it wasn't happening, that's your job sucks. But

Dani 1:48:19

that's why I get paid the big bucks

Stephanie 1:48:21

and it's your responsibility. And unfortunately, whatever factors led into this, some terrible shit happened and it was under your watch. Shitty. Yep.

Dani 1:48:34

some community members held signs counting the days since the shooting.

Stephanie 1:48:38

Mm-hmm. I can see that

Dani 1:48:39

organizer, Rebecca Barrow said she planned to keep rallying every couple of months. She and others demanded that deputies Cody, Roland and Brian Wood be charged with murder. Alvin Yantis, Jack's brother said they would see what happened in the next sheriff's election. Failed threat for sure.

Stephanie 1:48:59

Right. Oh, well, it, it's just like, yeah, we we're around.

Dani 1:49:03

Supporters also targeted the Attorney General's office in May. Michael McLaughlin, a Jordan Valley truck driver who ran several Justice for Jack Pages, coordinated a letter and email campaign. About 60 people called or wrote to demand action and charges against the deputies. They're just getting, they're pissed.

Stephanie 1:49:23

Mm-hmm. And 60 doesn't seem like a lot, but when you think of the size of the town and

Dani 1:49:27

Yeah, that's, that's a good chunk.

Stephanie 1:49:28

Yeah.

Dani 1:49:30

McLaughlin said he posted daily, how many days had passed since Jack's death and that people from across the United States and even overseas followed the case.

Stephanie 1:49:37

Oh, I bet

Dani 1:49:38

he later helped organize a rally outside of the Attorney General's office in Boise.

Stephanie 1:49:43

They're taking it and listen, especially when you've gone through any tragedy. You try all the outlets that you can, and I think people know that things move slow, but you feel like the urge to want to do something. I think that's very human.

Dani 1:50:00

Mm-hmm.

Stephanie 1:50:01

Of I have to do something in my power. Now I know that I can't force the judicial system to move faster. Then a glacial pace. You know how that thrills me? But So you branch out in other ways and you know, that's

Dani 1:50:19

Community Outreach

Stephanie 1:50:22

Fest. That's, that's where Kim Fest started. Yeah. Is we wanted to do something where we feel like we can make a difference. And it's hard work, but it's something you're passionate about and it's a, it's a part of healing too, is. I have to do you feel a personal responsibility? I have to do something

Dani 1:50:45

Donny Antti sometimes shared her reflections through McLaughlin's page. In one long message, she described Jack's character, his work ethic, his leadership roles in football, four H, and the cattle Association, and his habit of helping people in need. She urged people to focus not on an old small town election sign. From when he had once run for sheriff, but on the loss of a good, honest, hardworking man. So he did run for sheriff at one time of how

Stephanie 1:51:18

that's so crazy that that happened. Yeah,

Dani 1:51:21

all that time, the two deputies remain unpaid administrative leave. Their identities eventually became public because it's a small town. Brian Wood was 31 at the time of the shooting. Cody Roland was 38. Records later released as part of the investigation showed both had complex employment histories and prior discipline. What a euphemism. Complex employment histories. Wow. Wow. Okay. What has started his law enforcement career as a McCall Police officer in 2010? In 2011, Idaho Fish and Game cited him for killing a spike elk without a valid tag in Valley County Poaching. He initially pleaded not guilty, but later changed his plea of guilty on two misdemeanors, unlawful possession of wildlife and hunting without attack. A third charge wasting wildlife was dismissed. He paid more than$1,000 in fines. Completed community service and lost his hunting license for three years.

Stephanie 1:52:29

I'm surprised they can really nail you to the wall with these like poaching type of thing. They can take your truck if you use your truck.

Dani 1:52:36

Mm-hmm.

Stephanie 1:52:37

They can

Dani 1:52:37

fish and game has so much power,

Stephanie 1:52:39

they can ban you from hunting for you. For life. For life. Anything that's crazy.

Dani 1:52:47

McCall's internal investigation concluded that he had violated hunting laws. And department policies on moral conduct. The city fired him in November of 2011. The state post division opened a decertification investigation. Wood later filed a tort claim alleging that a post investigator had improperly shared confidential interview information. this is 10 weeks after he filed. We're

Stephanie 1:53:17

getting caddy. We're getting caddy here.

Dani 1:53:18

10 weeks after he filed post dismiss that. Decertification case, wood. Spend some time working in construction and other jobs when he was hired by Adams County in 2013 as a part-time marine deputy, and soon became full-time Sheriff Zelman later said he did not know about woods firing him a call. How could you not? Zelman did not, uh. No about the post inquiry. Also, when he hired, he didn't. Yeah,

Stephanie 1:53:50

okay. We just don't know anything. Are we not even making any

Dani 1:53:54

calls? You're hired. You're hired.

Stephanie 1:53:54

Like are they not allowed to say something? I know some companies, some corporations, they can't say anything. This is a

Dani 1:54:00

public entity think

Stephanie 1:54:02

like, why can't you say like, they're just, it's almost like the Catholic church shit where they were moving all of those fucking weirdos around. Like, you are in trouble. You cannot. Be here anymore. And then they know that they're in another place. They have a whole, they have a registry of where everyone's at. They know that they went to another place and they're preaching again.

Dani 1:54:23

They're covering it up.

Stephanie 1:54:24

Oh, I'm getting hated,

Dani 1:54:27

uh, former McCall. I'm just giggling because you're gonna be so much more mad. Uh, former McCall chief Jerry Summer said no one from Adams County asked him for a reference.

Stephanie 1:54:41

So we're not even trying,

Dani 1:54:42

and not so Idaho.

Stephanie 1:54:43

We're not even, nobody ever

Dani 1:54:46

asked me about'em.

Stephanie 1:54:47

I like the look of this resume. I like the layout. They put my, you know, you know, green's my favorite color. They formatted it in seven different shades of green. The sky's the winner. What

Dani 1:54:59

hired what the

Stephanie 1:55:00

fuck's happening.

Dani 1:55:02

Wood also had been sued once before for alleged excessive force.

Stephanie 1:55:09

And for it to get to a place of suing.

Dani 1:55:11

In 2011, a 78-year-old man claimed wood handled him roughly during a traffic stop. While working in a call, wood pulled over a vehicle for speeding. The elderly driver who never imagined that a routine traffic stop would leave him injured and traumatized. Yeah.

Stephanie 1:55:34

I'm fucking l livid.

Dani 1:55:38

the driver was 78-year-old Rodney Whaley. He was a retired man who kept himself, and according to his family, he still drove carefully enough that they teased him for tapping the brakes at every curve. He was speeding.

Stephanie 1:55:55

Okay?

Dani 1:55:55

But not,

Stephanie 1:55:57

and I don't care even if a 78-year-old man is aggressive with you. I am not trying to say this in a demeaning way, but a 78-year-old man, a brittle man if, if a brittle man is coming at you and you're a young SP Sprite, what is, I don't know if he's the 31-year-old or the 38-year-old. You're a in the prime of your life, man. You're a piece of

Dani 1:56:22

shit

Stephanie 1:56:24

for you to feel threatened enough or whatever the fuck the excuse was that you harmed an elderly gentle. I think most of us could take down a 78-year-old year old man and do it gently.

Dani 1:56:38

He did not.

Stephanie 1:56:39

Oh, surprise.

Dani 1:56:41

On the night Wood pulled him over. Whaley expected a warning or a ticket. Sure. Like he got me.

Stephanie 1:56:46

Yeah. Gimme a ticket.

Dani 1:56:47

Instead, he reported being yanked from his vehicle with force that stunned him. He said Wood dragged him onto the pavement so abruptly that his knees buckled and his chest hit the ground before he could brace himself. And the lawsuit that followed Whaley described the impact as a shock that rippled through his rib cage and spine. Whaley suffered injuries to his shoulder and lower back the pain set in immediately. And he told investigators that he felt something give when would forced his arms behind him. In the medical records referenced in the civil complaint, Doctors noted soft tissue trauma, bruising along the right hip and restricted range of motion in his left arm. His family said he winced every time he tried to lift a cup of coffee for days.

Stephanie 1:57:38

I would be so

Dani 1:57:39

pissed if this was my

Stephanie 1:57:40

dad. So someone's paw.

Dani 1:57:42

Yeah,

Stephanie 1:57:42

someone's paw. Ooh. And I'm, again, even, even if someone's being an asshole or a dick that's 78 years old,

Dani 1:57:52

hey, why don't you try those deescalation skills you

1:57:54

should

Dani 1:57:55

fucking

Stephanie 1:57:55

learn? You can't just like bear, be like, bear, sorry, I'm bear hugging you and you're getting into my like. What the fuck is this if they're not armed?

Dani 1:58:05

And look, I can appreciate a crotchety old man. Let him be crotchety.

Stephanie 1:58:10

He said,

Dani 1:58:10

I'm crochety at my age. Gimme a

Stephanie 1:58:12

fucking

Dani 1:58:12

ticket. Yeah, just write it.

Stephanie 1:58:14

But

Dani 1:58:15

I Even if he said, get it done kid, whatever the fuck you need, who cares? You do not yank him out of the car.

Stephanie 1:58:24

Yeah. We don't need to be yanking a brittle old man.

Dani 1:58:29

But the emotional toll was worse. Whaley said he lay on the ground confused and scared, hearing wood shout commands he struggled to follow. He later told his attorney that he thought he might die during the stop because he could not catch his breath with his chest pressed to the asphalt. Scary. He remembered the cold road, the weight on his back, and the sense that something had spiraled far beyond what a simple speeding stop should have been. A what the fuck moment. Whaley sued the city of McCall. Get'em, and the case ended with a$14,500 settlement. Yeah. So

Stephanie 1:59:06

we, not only are you paying their salaries, their pensions, which can sometimes, like the pension type of it, depending on how they have it set up, is very lucrative for policemen. So not only are we paying for that, we're also paying for all of their bad deeds. That's the whole judicial system.'cause they're part of the judicial system. Mm-hmm. Right. so if they're found guilty, that means that they really fucked up. We're paying for that. And then even if you do fire them, one of your neighbors in another county or state. Guess what now you look.

Dani 1:59:44

Resume looks good, bro.

Stephanie 1:59:45

Now your taxes get to pay for their bad deeds and salaries. It's just it fucking pit. There has to be a different way to do this shit,

Dani 1:59:56

but that money for Whaley wasn't enough to erase his injuries or the fear that lingered long after the bruises faded. His family said he avoided driving at night for months. He began checking the rear view mirror more often, and this is such a papa thing, he carried a small notebook in his car because he wanted to have something to write on if things went wrong. Again,

Stephanie 2:00:20

that is such a papa thing. Like how, and that's, I feel like that's how you know that it really affected him. Like it wasn't just, he was saying that I'm keeping a

Dani 2:00:28

notebook,

Stephanie 2:00:28

like I'm gonna get out my notebook and I'm going to write down that you told me. That I'm a, you know, get out of the fucking car, you dickbag or whatever the hell happened, you know,

Dani 2:00:38

poor Mr. Whaley. I think that's horrible. inside the P McCall Police Department, the complaint should have raised red flags, obviously, but according to to state investigative records, wood was not disciplined for the traffic stop.

Stephanie 2:00:53

And that's the culture

Dani 2:00:56

He had no remedial training ordered,

Stephanie 2:00:58

wonderful.

Dani 2:00:59

No review board was triggered. Whale's injuries were acknowledged only in settlement. Paperwork and wood remained on the force until that later poaching incident finally resulted in his termination.

Stephanie 2:01:10

Uh, fish and games. The one that fucking had to put the nail in the coffin.

Dani 2:01:14

Uh, you can beat up an old man.

Stephanie 2:01:17

You poach a deer,

Dani 2:01:18

you poach a deer,

Stephanie 2:01:20

whatever the fuck it was

Dani 2:01:21

a spike.

Stephanie 2:01:22

Yeah, it was a deer.

Dani 2:01:24

Uh, you're fired. That pisses me off.

Stephanie 2:01:28

Yeah.

Dani 2:01:29

In 2015, a few months before the Anta shooting, wood supervisors in Adams County had him put on probation for four months because he repeatedly turned in late reports that probation period would've ended around November 1st,

Stephanie 2:01:47

and that's to even be on probation. It takes a lot

Dani 2:01:52

mm-hmm.

Stephanie 2:01:53

To get a, even a slap on the wrist.

Dani 2:01:55

yeah. I think, uh, sheriff, should have probably correlated not turning on your cameras and late reports, like you're not even fucking

Stephanie 2:02:06

busyness,

Dani 2:02:07

that your job is more than just driving around in a car

Stephanie 2:02:11

and being the big dog on Campos.

Dani 2:02:15

Roland's work history covered six Idaho agencies since 2000.

Stephanie 2:02:19

Oh, I wonder why that was,

Dani 2:02:21

including sheriff's offices and Adams Canyon and Valley Counties and police departments in Gooding, Parma, and Wilder. Oh, fairly, I can see these areas, right?

Stephanie 2:02:30

Me too.

Dani 2:02:31

Gooding's. A little stretch out there, but state investigation documents showed that Valley County had investigated or disciplined him four times. One Speeding stop led to counseling for his attitude.

Stephanie 2:02:45

Oh, I hate that. Which was probably a slap on the wrist for being an absolute psychopath.

Dani 2:02:50

An off-duty incident in 2008 resulted in a reprimand and a year of probation for conduct unbecoming

Stephanie 2:02:57

off-duty incident. So that means, you know, you're acting like a piece of shit outside the uniform. And I see this a lot with cops. Again, I know this isn't every cop, please do not get crazy. But where cops, when they're off duty, think that they have the same authority. I've seen it like pulling people over.

2:03:17

Oh,

Stephanie 2:03:17

I've seen that on TikTok. Yes. That's, that type of shit happens. I'm gonna

Dani 2:03:20

arrest you. Like now you're, you're what? I'm a cop. Shut the fuck up.

Stephanie 2:03:25

Yeah.

Dani 2:03:26

And look, I appreciate law Enforment. I'm not. Yeah, I'm just gonna call it when I call.

Stephanie 2:03:30

Yeah.

Dani 2:03:30

When I see it, I'm gonna call it like these. There's some douche baggery going on here. Uh, in 2010, a confidential informants information triggered an internal investigation by a regional narcotics task force. Records did not detail the allegations, and Roland said he never knew the specifics and was later told the matter was dropped. There's some

2:03:58

shady

Stephanie 2:03:59

shit. Nobody was. I think someone was stealing meth from the fucking evidence locker

Dani 2:04:04

in 2011 Post contacted Valley County about inconsistencies in his employments and post applications regarding military service. On one form, he said he had served and received a general discharge under honorable conditions. On another, he said he had not served post records showed that he had been given an uncharacterized entry level separation. Roland said the confusion came from a Navy hearing loss waiver that was later rescinded and that he had received a DD two 14. I hope I said that right. Military, a DD two 14 form. Even though he never truly served. So do you know what the DD two 14?

Stephanie 2:04:50

I have no

Dani 2:04:51

idea.

Stephanie 2:04:51

It's,

Dani 2:04:52

it's a paper. It's a piece of paper proving you served. So, uh, like if you wanna get a VA loan,

Stephanie 2:04:58

sure. Okay.

Dani 2:04:59

You, we asked for their DD two 14.

Stephanie 2:05:02

And can they get that if they are dishonorably or honorably or only

Dani 2:05:05

honorably? No. They can get a No, it just proves that you served.

Stephanie 2:05:08

Okay.

Dani 2:05:08

So, but he never served because he had, he got, uh. A hearing loss waiver, but it was later rescinded and he should not have gotten that DD two 14, but he did. So he used that. What

Stephanie 2:05:25

in the fuck?

Dani 2:05:26

I know, he said that when he learned he should not have that form, I will give him a little leeway. If you don't know, you don't know,

Stephanie 2:05:34

you got it and you think that it counts, okay, I can allow

Dani 2:05:37

it, but you never really served. he said that when he learned he should not have that for, he stopped listing the military service. So that kind of explains why it was on Summit Resume and that it wasn't, he resigned from Valley County before the sheriff there could address the issue. He's

2:05:49

like,

Stephanie 2:05:49

that also says something to

Dani 2:05:51

me that heat is hot. Valley County, later de declined his employment, calling it a personnel matter Those histories became important to Yantis supporters who argued that the sheriff should have never hired them. And who oppose the return to duty?'cause they're st. They're just on leave. That'd be very scary.

Stephanie 2:06:11

And so they're saying these people already had the euphemism complex work histories. I'm doing interviews at work right now and I can't wait for someone to say My work history is complex.

Dani 2:06:27

Maybe you should just note one that's complex. It'd be funny

Stephanie 2:06:31

and if, and that's gonna be a red flag for me.

Dani 2:06:33

Yeah.

Stephanie 2:06:34

But they're saying you've already fucked up a lot of times and now this huge tragedy has happened. What the fuck. I understand it.

Dani 2:06:42

They also became a factor in later legal filings.

Stephanie 2:06:46

I'm sure they did

Dani 2:06:47

during the long wait for prosecution decisions. Tensions inside the Adams County Sheriff's Office also surfaced in January of 2016. Lieutenant Steve Phillips, a friend and fellow post academy graduate of wood, told the Idaho State police detectives that he believed wood had become unstable and dangerous in the weeks after the shooting. Philip? Yeah, Philip said Wood's father had asked him to talk to his son because wood was considering suicide. That's unfortunate. Phillip said he spent hours with wood and tried to help him and his wife through marital problems and grief. This is a lot of tr I mean, regardless, a friend, regardless of regardless right or wrong, which we're going to, it's gonna go down later, the amount of pressure that that would put on your marriage for his wife would probably escalate. Things have escalated now.

Stephanie 2:07:48

Now everything in my life is fucked.

Dani 2:07:50

Yeah. Yes. He told detectives that wood twice threatened that there would be gun play if officers tried to take his guns, involve law enforcement and mental health holds, or if he lost his job. So this guy,

Stephanie 2:08:09

he's basically saying, if anything happens to my job, my guns, my employment

Dani 2:08:14

shit's going down, so

Stephanie 2:08:17

that's not good.

Dani 2:08:19

Uh, this guy Phillips, I was like, I gotta. Yeah. This is something

Stephanie 2:08:25

beyond, this is a good cop behavior where he stood up and went against the thin blue line.

Dani 2:08:30

Yep.

Stephanie 2:08:31

To say, because who? Listen there. People that are mad at employment, cops are not. There's been many mass shootings and workplace violence and this,

Dani 2:08:44

have you ever heard the phrase

Stephanie 2:08:47

going postal?

Dani 2:08:48

Yeah, that's,

Stephanie 2:08:48

yeah.

Dani 2:08:49

Yeah. It's a real thing.

Stephanie 2:08:50

So for someone to speak up that it takes a lot and it sucks. Especially this is a friend that has tried to help them for it to be that bad where he's like, I have to say something. Because the per

Dani 2:09:04

you're,

Stephanie 2:09:04

it's

Dani 2:09:05

veiled threats, right?

Stephanie 2:09:07

And the possible outcomes could be disastrous for innocent people. So I at least applaud this person for having the guts to do it in this culture that nationwide is not

Dani 2:09:21

protect your guys

Stephanie 2:09:22

that way.

Dani 2:09:24

Phillips was a former counter-terrorism team member who had worked in the Middle East and he said Wood's marksmanship and Arsenal made him particularly worried.

Stephanie 2:09:37

Dangerous. Yeah.

Dani 2:09:38

He said he had sent wood to an FBI Advanced Sniper School where Wood had earned top shot honors. He described wood as young, fast, and extremely skilled. Philip said he and his wife ended up packing up bags and leaving their canyon home because they felt so vulnerable on the surrounding high ground if something went wrong because his friend was so fucking unstable

Stephanie 2:10:06

and so they were worried like we would be a perfect target.

Dani 2:10:08

Yeah. and because he had given this information

Stephanie 2:10:14

and he said, if anyone fucks

Dani 2:10:17

up my employment gun way, because he was like, look, I'm trapped. Like you're trapped. Imagine my cabin.

Stephanie 2:10:25

Oh,

Dani 2:10:27

there's no getting away. They could go high, they could go low. Like

Stephanie 2:10:34

there's not, not a lot of options.

Dani 2:10:36

He gave detailed written reports to Sheriff Solman and to other agencies, including McCall Police and the Valley County Sheriff's Office, and worked with Woods family to get him into counseling with a police chaplain in Washington state.

Stephanie 2:10:48

Get him something.

Dani 2:10:49

He's trying to be a good friend.

Stephanie 2:10:51

Yeah.

Dani 2:10:52

Philip's statements prompted the ADA County Sheriff's Office to issue an internal officer safety and extra patrol

Stephanie 2:11:00

bulletin. Oof. So like, almost like a bolo, but for your own guy. And that's very serious

Dani 2:11:07

in January. And it warned local officers that woods. In-laws had requested patrols and that according to Adams County would've become increasingly unstable.

Stephanie 2:11:20

Oh, that's scary.

Dani 2:11:20

The bulletin noted Woods alleged threats that his in-laws were not safe and that there would be gunfire if officers tried to intervene. The bulletin was meant only for law enforcement, but was eventually leaked and posted online, causing another wave of public discussion.

Stephanie 2:11:42

And I'm sorry, but as it should, and I know if, if there are a risk to their coworkers mm-hmm. There are a risk to the public, and again, this is people that we're paying

Dani 2:11:55

wood later, called Philip statements slanderous and said that they were motivated by a personal agenda and by Philip's supposed romantic interest in Wood's Wife,

Stephanie 2:12:07

they were friends.

Dani 2:12:08

Can I. Do you remember the part where I said he and his wife tried to help?

Stephanie 2:12:13

Yeah.

Dani 2:12:13

Wood and his wife,

Stephanie 2:12:17

they were trying to come together as friends.

Dani 2:12:19

Phillip's wife was consoling and trying to take care

Stephanie 2:12:24

being the girl. Yep. To be there for her. This is, and honestly, this is really sad.

Dani 2:12:33

In May, 2016, wood filed a tort claim accusing Adams County of failing to protect his rights. When Phillips spoke with Ada County, the claim said Wood would seek damages of more than$400,000. Phillips left Adams County in early 2016 and took a job in Elmore County. He's like, I'm fucking out. This is too much drama for me.

Stephanie 2:12:54

Yeah, understandable.

Dani 2:12:54

And he's worried about his family

Stephanie 2:12:56

to move out of. I'm sure that was a beautiful place up in a beau in a.

Dani 2:13:00

It's a,

Stephanie 2:13:01

it's a place a nice you. If it was, you could view it from anywhere. That means you had a great view too. Everywhere.

Dani 2:13:06

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The county did not respond to the tart claim within 90 days, leaving wood free to sue as the time of the investigation files release. He had not yet filed a lawsuit. Neither he nor Phillips publicly discussed the specifics because of potential litigation. Sure. So it was thrown out there. I'm sure some attorney was like, you need to, and that's being consent violated your, what? No dude. Like you were not in a good mental state and

Stephanie 2:13:36

threatening since other people have done it. Mm-hmm. Like the OJ lawyer and whatever, like, that's what, that's insult to injury. Like. Not only did you do something that was bad, you're, you're not a good cop. People have paid for your bad deeds and now you are going to even take more from the community taxpayers. Because now it's somehow the police departments or community's fault.

Dani 2:14:03

On January 30th, ISP had already said it was waiting for the lab results. Once ISP turned over its file on March 10th, the Attorney General's office requested additional material and asked that Roland be interviewed again. That's that extra interview that they did. One. Yeah. They received the final ballistics report and Roland's additional interview in early June. On June 13th, the Attorney General's team asked ISP to stage a full reconstruction of the scene at a training facility in Meridian. They walked through all the witnesses accounts and then drove to counsel that same day. That was a long day.

Stephanie 2:14:44

Oh, I

Dani 2:14:44

bet, to stand on the highway where the shooting occurred. Attorney General Lawrence Watson later said he had about a dozen staff members working on the case, including four lawyers. And three investigators.

Stephanie 2:14:57

I'm glad the actual work and time is being put into this though because

Dani 2:15:01

No, they really

Stephanie 2:15:01

were, those types of things are really important.

Dani 2:15:04

on July 29th, 2016 after nine months of investigation. And six weeks of prosecutorial review. Fuck yeah. Yep. Attorney General Watson and US Attorney Wendy Olson stepped before reporters in Boise. They announced that neither Brian Wood nor Cody Roland would face criminal charges at the state or federal level.

Stephanie 2:15:33

And listen, especially the cameras, again, would've proven innocence or proven guilt easily. And this was a shit show. I can't say. I mean, I, I have an opinion of Let's

Dani 2:15:54

drop it

2:15:54

at

Dani 2:15:54

the end because

Stephanie 2:15:55

I have one too.

Dani 2:15:56

Okay. Let's, well, sure. We'll discuss opinions.

Stephanie 2:15:59

Yeah.

Dani 2:15:59

But right now these guys are free to go.

Stephanie 2:16:02

Great news for them. Congratulations.

Dani 2:16:05

Sorry, Don. Not only did her husband get shot, she had a fucking heart attack on the side of the fucking road.

Stephanie 2:16:15

Mm-hmm.

Dani 2:16:17

Was and acknowledged criticism about the length of the process. Which look, I concur, but I'm telling you they had to do it this way because if not, it's

Stephanie 2:16:27

better to do that and dot the i's and cross the T's.

Dani 2:16:29

Yep.

Stephanie 2:16:31

Or else, even if, if it's a, a verdict that you want, it'll come back.

Dani 2:16:35

Yeah.

Stephanie 2:16:36

It'll come back and it will come back again and again. So it sucks, but I would rather them take their time and hopefully do it right.

Dani 2:16:46

Was and pointed to the volume of evidence, which included more than 50 witnesses. 5,300 pages of reports, 590 photographs, and 30 hours of audio and video. It's a lot.

Stephanie 2:17:00

Okay.

Dani 2:17:01

He said his office had moved quickly once ISP finished. And that is true six weeks. Sure.

Stephanie 2:17:07

They did what they needed to do

Dani 2:17:08

once

Stephanie 2:17:08

they got it. Yeah. And

Dani 2:17:09

that by anyone's measure, less than two months of prosecutorial review was fast. I fucking nailed that. I'm, I'm so excited about it. he stressed that he was not declaring the deputy's actions right or wrong. He said only that there was not enough evidence to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, which was the standard any jury would have to apply. He also said that taking a weak case to a grand jury and the hope of getting an indictment would violate his duty as a minister of Justice if the evidence could not support conviction. He said he should not seek charges.

Stephanie 2:17:51

I will say that quote is very convincing and it is very reality that. Is tough to hear. It's tough to

Dani 2:17:58

hear

Stephanie 2:17:59

in a lot of cases.

Dani 2:18:00

Mm-hmm.

Stephanie 2:18:00

I know that we've all watched the Datelines where it's like a 30 year thing and they're like, why couldn't you bring, you know, and if it's going, getting a a not guilty is worse than anything if the person's really guilty. Mm-hmm. Because then they are off the hook forever and ever and ever. So the risk is very high. And even though it sucks, there's sometimes when a,'cause prosecutors are very big on their conviction rate, so I feel like sometimes that does play into it. Sure. Of they want to get, keep a high, but you really, the appeals process and the coming back and like going back on previous things where they're like, you were guilty and then another court gets it and they're like. We're gonna say no, and you can try again. That's so painful.

Dani 2:18:58

And I think that he knew that if this went to trial and they forced a trial because they could mm-hmm.

Stephanie 2:19:08

They

Dani 2:19:08

could force their hand. And that came out with a jury giving them a not guilty. We're talking riot town.

Stephanie 2:19:18

Well, and then it's not guilty doesn't mean innocent, but so many people perceive it that way of I was not guilty. Like, and they think that even if someone's done something, if the law says not guilty, that there, that there shouldn't even be any judgment or a side eye or a, so this, this whole case really sucks. And once again. This makes me glad that the sheriff was fired because I feel like the culture and the expectations, they hadn't been reprimanded or done anything before this. No one just decided to forget to empty their, to offload their memory or to put their, no one just said, today's the day that it's gonna happen.

Dani 2:20:11

Yeah.

Stephanie 2:20:12

This had probably been happening and it just so happened that an actual really fucking important thing happened this day. Right. It probably even been going on for years.

Dani 2:20:22

Little, yeah. Olson said, federal investigators could not show that either deputy had willfully or unreasonably violated yantis civil rights under the Fourth Amendment. This is the Feds talking.

Stephanie 2:20:35

Okay.

Dani 2:20:35

She said it was not enough under federal law to prove an officer made a mistake acting, neglecting, or even exercise bad judgment. They had to prove a willful, unreasonable use of force and with a conflicting accounts, which

Stephanie 2:20:52

really only a video would've done

Dani 2:20:53

a missing video. They could not do

Stephanie 2:20:57

intent.

Dani 2:20:59

Mm-hmm.

Stephanie 2:21:00

And the actual second by second to determine,

Dani 2:21:06

I will give them kudos on this because both offices released the entire ISP investigative file, including transcripts, photos, and recorded interviews.

Stephanie 2:21:17

And that's good. And I think that that was at least needed. And people can make whatever they want and people will fixate. And we've all been in the true crime community and sometimes fixating on the tiny corner of a picture is important. Sometimes people try to find and stretch. Use one thing to do whatever. Once again, if they had the fucking video,

Dani 2:21:45

The file showed that Jackie Anta blood alcohol level had been 0.14 that night,

Stephanie 2:21:54

and in most states it's 0.8.

Dani 2:21:57

Yep. It's, yeah,

Stephanie 2:21:58

for driving, which isn't drunk.

Dani 2:22:03

Waston pointed out that there was nothing illegal about that because he was at his home.

Stephanie 2:22:08

Yeah.

Dani 2:22:09

But that number became more and more little fact and a deeply contested narrative. So

Stephanie 2:22:16

that's a thing that they can prove with evidence.

Dani 2:22:18

Yep.

Stephanie 2:22:18

Which, if there was a video and they can, because

Dani 2:22:20

there was no fucking video.

Stephanie 2:22:22

Yeah.

Dani 2:22:23

The release documents highlighted the key discrepancies in the four primary witnesses stories. They showed that Roland and Wood both said that they believed Jack had fired first, or at least that his rifle discharged as they fired. Donna and Rowdy insisted he never fired intentionally, and that at most the gun might have gone off when the deputy grabbed him or when a bullet struck his hand and the gun itself and the ballistic evidence could not answer that question. Unfortunate Cameras video. Let's go. The investigative records also showed how detectives challenged Roland in his third interview. They did, they made it clear that they did not believe Wood's claim that he never touched Theis and that they tried to get Roland to distance himself from that account. And Roland refused, wasn't underlined that he was not clearing anyone. He said only he did not have a path to conviction. And Olson echoed that stance.

Stephanie 2:23:31

I like that. At least they said that. So it's not like

Dani 2:23:34

we're not, we're not saying that he didn't,

Stephanie 2:23:35

we're not advertising that these people are

Dani 2:23:37

innocent. I, God, I really feel like these guys are handling it the best way they can.

Stephanie 2:23:44

They're trying to give

Dani 2:23:45

the conflict.'cause you cannot convict somebody on what we think happened.

Stephanie 2:23:50

Yes. So they're, at least they're trying to, I feel like they're trying to give the public of what they can give of, you can have your own fucking opinion of whatever you wanna say. We are not telling you that they are a hundred percent innocent because we weren't able to prove that either. If we were able to be like, no, no, you know, no shots were fired before this, or, yes, he actually shot the de the person or whatever.

Dani 2:24:17

They don't

Stephanie 2:24:17

know. We would tell you that

Dani 2:24:19

we don't know.

Stephanie 2:24:20

And so I feel like they're trying to give people at least'cause the why thing and the how thing. Is huge for people. Mm-hmm. You know, I'm that type of person, and so at least they're leaving that open and saying, if we could tell you that they're a hundred percent innocent, we would've told you that,

Dani 2:24:40

but we can't. Oh, I do love it.

Stephanie 2:24:43

It's that that's the undertone. That's the,

Dani 2:24:45

yep.

Stephanie 2:24:46

The message I'm getting between the lines,

Dani 2:24:49

both said their investigative work was done. Any further examination of policies or training would have to come from other agencies or civil litigation. Okay. Like we're outs.

Stephanie 2:25:00

Yeah. But please, please don't say, if you could like, do your cameras a little more. Let's get, can, can I get a firm hand

Dani 2:25:09

more consistently Please.

Stephanie 2:25:10

Taxpayer, like she said, taxpayers pay for it. You have to use them. And if you're being good, it's like Santa. If you're being good. He's gonna see that you're being good and it will protect you from a, a crazy that tries to attack you and then sue you because they're saying you attack them.

Dani 2:25:28

Yeah.

Stephanie 2:25:28

It will protect you if you are truly doing the right thing. Yep.

Dani 2:25:32

I agree.

Stephanie 2:25:33

Sorry, I'm very, I I didn't mean to yell.

Dani 2:25:38

The Yantis family reacted with disappointment, but not surprise. attorney Chuck Peterson representing Donna, daughter, Sarah and Loretta and nephew Rowdy, said that given the conflicting witness accounts, he understood why prosecutors hesitated. But he argued that grand juries were designed to wrestle with tough factual disputes.

Stephanie 2:25:59

True,

Dani 2:26:00

and that probable cause. Was a lower standard than proof beyond a reasonable doubt. He said the family would pursue their civil case regardless. So he's like, that's good. He, he wasn't buying into this. It can't be proved beyond a reasonable doubt. He's saying that is not a grand jury's duty. A grand jury's duty is they have to decide if there's probable cause.

Stephanie 2:26:26

Mm-hmm. So

Dani 2:26:26

he didn't like that statement.

Stephanie 2:26:28

It was a very kind response though.

Dani 2:26:32

Yeah.

Stephanie 2:26:33

With how, obviously disappointed they were and would be so, and it, I feel like he did say, sure. If, if like he didn't agree with it, but he's like, I can understand why you wouldn't wanna pursue,

Dani 2:26:49

but you should have taken it to a grand jury. Because a grand jury is not deciding guilt, they're deciding probable cause.

Stephanie 2:26:57

Yeah. And if it's like, should go forward, right? If it's

Dani 2:27:00

questionable,

Stephanie 2:27:02

then let's ask the court and the jury the question.

Dani 2:27:06

Yeah. Let's go through the process. Oh,

Stephanie 2:27:08

but

Dani 2:27:08

I,

Stephanie 2:27:09

I will agree that it's a tough case regardless.

Dani 2:27:12

So let's go back to April, 2016 for that tort claim. Donna, Sarah and Rowdy had filed that tort claim against Adams County Sheriff Zoman and Deputies, wood Roland, the claim because you have to give that 90 days.

Stephanie 2:27:28

Yeah.

Dani 2:27:28

Okay. So the claim outlined their version of events. It said the dispatcher summoned Jack to the highway. Two dispatches bull and that Jack Donna, rowdy and family friend Joe Ramsey went down. It said, Jack stood behind the bull with his rifle aimed at the back of its head. When Roland suddenly grabbed him from behind without warning, jerked him backward, and that both deputies immediately unleashed a hail of bullets with the intent to kill the claim, accused the deputies of failing to issue any commands or warnings, failing to attempt less lethal force, and making no effort to allow Jack to regain his footing because as Donna and Rowdy both said, he w Jack was touched or grabbed on the shoulder, and he flipped around and he wasn't even on his feet. You know, if you're looking to do something as serious as put down an animal, you're not focused. He was pissed off at this guy. He wasn't paying two shits to those Sheriff mm-hmm. Sheriffs, he, he's like, you guys are a piece of shit. How could you sit here and just randomly shoot an animal? He wasn't focused on those guys at all.

Stephanie 2:28:47

Mm-hmm.

Dani 2:28:47

I believe

Stephanie 2:28:48

he, he was probably like, I, I know how to do this.

Dani 2:28:50

Shut the fuck.

Stephanie 2:28:51

I'm getting it done

Dani 2:28:51

here. Kids get the fuck away. I'm old school. I'm real dill. I got this. Get, get away.

Stephanie 2:28:57

Well, and I feel like they called him down. He walked down, right?

Dani 2:29:02

Yeah.

Stephanie 2:29:02

Or came down however.

Dani 2:29:04

Mm-hmm.

Stephanie 2:29:05

And I feel like maybe they got spooked with the gun. Any, any officer seeing someone else with a gun.

Dani 2:29:14

They were probably a little high tent. They probably had some tension.

Stephanie 2:29:17

Why didn't they go up there and walk him down so that

Dani 2:29:20

every, and it just, because it's a very, it's a very common thing up there. So they called him from his fucking dinner table. He wrote his four wheeler down. He's standing. He gets down there and he sees that they've shot his bull. Fucking shit and

Stephanie 2:29:33

poorly,

Dani 2:29:34

poorly shot his bull made it

Stephanie 2:29:35

worse.

Dani 2:29:36

Oh, just so it quit charging. What are you fuck? Are you an idiot? And that's, I think that his total demeanor towards those guys after reading through this was just

Stephanie 2:29:46

when they were like, he charged us and then they shot him incorrectly and it's like, that will cause him to charge

Dani 2:29:50

again. Yeah. You're

Stephanie 2:29:51

fucking continue to charge.

Dani 2:29:52

Put that shit away. Put your piece of shit gun away. Your fucking fancy, fancy AR 15. That's not gonna kill my bull. If you shoot him in the gut, like he was pissed.

Stephanie 2:30:02

Yes.

Dani 2:30:03

And I can you imagine? Okay,

Stephanie 2:30:05

now your animal is even in more and more pain than being hit.

Dani 2:30:10

Yeah. And so he went to go shoot him and he was focused on getting the right spot and somebody grabbed him because they didn't like someone

Stephanie 2:30:20

grabs me at any point. I'm sorry, I'm that girl. I don't fucking touch me.

Dani 2:30:25

Yeah.

Stephanie 2:30:26

Ever.

Dani 2:30:27

It also accused them of falsely arresting Donna and Rowdy. Pointing out the heart attack Donna suffered on scene.

Stephanie 2:30:34

Right. They just made it worse. What, what, what threat was she?

Dani 2:30:38

She was fucking freaking out

Stephanie 2:30:40

having

2:30:40

aid

Dani 2:30:40

that they had a gun to her fucking head. She was not nowhere.

Stephanie 2:30:45

She saw all of this shooting and everything.

Dani 2:30:47

Nowhere in any of this reports that I see Donna have a gun, Donna be threatening. Guess what? I wouldn't even, even if a gun wasn't pointed at my loved one's head, if some cop was being irrational, I would find it very hard to stay calm. Yes. So, uh, that they threw her on the ground and rowdy on the ground and cuffed them and had guns to their head. Slow your roll bitches.

Stephanie 2:31:18

Again, this is the, we are expected as civilians. Mm-hmm. To be rational, reasonable, limp show. Show submission in the face of extreme. There's 10 people around me probably that could all shoot me full and make me into Swiss cheese. But if I say something, an officer is allowed to be like,

Dani 2:31:41

yeah.

Stephanie 2:31:42

Escalated and offended and, and enact terror because of it.

Dani 2:31:48

So not only the heart attack that Donald suffered, but the shooting costs this an enormous emotional distress. So that's, that's

Stephanie 2:31:57

obviously,

Dani 2:31:57

yeah. Uh, it asked for$500,000 the maximum damages allowed against a county under Idaho law.

Stephanie 2:32:06

I didn't even know that was a

Dani 2:32:07

thing in their

Stephanie 2:32:09

as fuck,

Dani 2:32:11

but said that amount could not possibly fully consum

Stephanie 2:32:15

compensate you. No, I got it.

Dani 2:32:17

but that Oh my god. Pan. But it said that that amount could not possibly fully compensate the family and the punitive damages that would be required in a lawsuit.

Stephanie 2:32:29

Yeah.

Dani 2:32:30

500 a half million. It's not gonna do, it's not doing shit.

Stephanie 2:32:33

I want them to get it because I, again, the police could have proven their innocence

Dani 2:32:39

if they've done their job right. Yeah. And that's where all, that's where all my frustrations coming from with this. It's like there is conflicting stories, but if they would've just done what they

Stephanie 2:32:50

were supposed, that is their job, that wasn't their job to have cameras on this specific portion of the road. It could have cleared them if in fact, they were doing the right thing.

Dani 2:33:01

Yep. After the July charging decision, Peterson said the family would review the release investigative file and likely file a federal lawsuit seeking damages for wrongful death and civil rights violations.

Stephanie 2:33:16

Okay.

Dani 2:33:16

Big time. Because Idaho is only. Half a million.

Stephanie 2:33:20

Mm-hmm.

Dani 2:33:21

Get federal. He noted that they had hoped body camera or dash camera footage would show exactly what happened. And so the absence of the video left everyone relying on contested memories. The Justice for Jack movement continued its work. Supporters comb through thousands of pages of investigative records, held more rallies and encourage people to read the documents themselves. They, they pressed Sheriff Zalman to hold another public meeting as he had promised, because that's what he said. Mm-hmm. He said, what? I know you'll know.

Stephanie 2:33:54

We'll do this again.

Dani 2:33:56

Zalman first said he would. Then later he said he would not because the county's risk management insurer had advised them not to talk about the case. While litigation limped,

Stephanie 2:34:06

no one wants to hear that.

Dani 2:34:07

No one wants to, but it's the truth.

Stephanie 2:34:09

But put out a video or so, like find an alternative. Did he, did he do that right? Probably not. We don't know.

Dani 2:34:19

I can't remember.'cause this story was so much,

Stephanie 2:34:22

there's so much tea, like, so mu, so much like

Dani 2:34:25

I might be in here side stories

Stephanie 2:34:26

and

Dani 2:34:27

everything. It might be in here. the sheriff pointed out that the entire investigative record was online for anyone to read. And he said there was nothing he could say that was not already available. True. That.

Stephanie 2:34:37

And then it, you know, people can come to their

Dani 2:34:40

home and he should not be speaking.

Stephanie 2:34:41

And I'm glad they released this stuff for

Dani 2:34:43

free. Yeah, they did. It was full transparency. Everything

2:34:46

without

Stephanie 2:34:46

having to have people do a foia, FOIA and all

Dani 2:34:48

that stuff. But he's like, I have nothing more to add to this because everything's there. Make your judgment because he can't say they're in litigation.

Stephanie 2:34:57

Mm-hmm.

Dani 2:34:57

So. Supporters were not satisfied. Some campaigned for sheriff candidate Tom Watts, who ran as an independent against soman. Others continued to argue that wood and Roland should never return to duty'cause that's still there.

Stephanie 2:35:12

Mm-hmm.

Dani 2:35:14

For a while, the deputies themselves stayed largely silent and public would eventually post it on Facebook. Where's your fucking attorney, bro? In a long message, he said,

Stephanie 2:35:25

oh God.

Dani 2:35:25

The previous five weeks had been the most trying of his life, and that false information had spread about what happened. He wrote that he knew the truth and the others did too, and that he hoped the world would eventually know. He asked people to pray for peace and healing for all families involved. in August of 2016, repeating his view that Jack had pointed his rifle towards emergency workers, ignored commands to lower it and fired before wood shot. So he's saying, look, this is what happened.

Stephanie 2:36:00

This guy pointed his gun at emergency workers and was gonna fire, or I thought he did fire and then I fired. Why would he be targeting the ambulance workers?

Dani 2:36:13

Is that bull was on the ground and knows Here, lemme show you that picture again. Let me,

Stephanie 2:36:18

yeah, thank you.

Dani 2:36:19

let's see here. So there's the bull. I mean this whole, you can see there, there's their a TV, so emergency workers must have been down this way. Mm-hmm. So he was pointing the gun that way, but he's, well,

Stephanie 2:36:39

I don't think

Dani 2:36:40

he was shooting.

Stephanie 2:36:41

What, what would his, even if he was pissed at the cops or whatever. I think people know their, their

Dani 2:36:47

uniforms. Yeah. His daughter was an EMT. He's not trying to shoot

Stephanie 2:36:52

the EMT definitely wasn't shooting or doing anything to the bull.

Dani 2:36:58

Yeah. He was trying to kill the bull. The way the bull was facing, he was shooting it in the back.

Stephanie 2:37:04

Mm-hmm.

Dani 2:37:04

Where he's supposed to shoot it. He's just doing, this is what I, he knows how to put down the animal. He's gonna put the rifle in the right direction.

Stephanie 2:37:16

Mm-hmm.

Dani 2:37:17

I'm sorry that we have emergency workers a hundred yards down the road. Or whatever they were.

Stephanie 2:37:23

Mm-hmm.

Dani 2:37:24

200 feet down the road. But I can't kill the bull

Stephanie 2:37:28

correctly. You asked me to come down here to do

Dani 2:37:30

it. I can't kill the bull correctly. If I can't put the rifle where I need to put the rifle.

Stephanie 2:37:35

I have to come down here carrying a gun. And if, if just that alone,

Dani 2:37:39

I just shoot it right here in this spot. And this is how it needs to point to put the animal out of misery that you've already caused Way more misery than needed.

Stephanie 2:37:48

Mm-hmm. That's a big bull too. And that's very offensive. Like to cause more misery.

Dani 2:37:56

Yeah. Oh fuck. That's, can you imagine? In August, 2016, repeating his view that Jack had pointed his rifle towards emergency workers, ignored commands to lower it and fired before wood shot. He wrote that he. Had raised his rifle. This is all in his Facebook shit.

Stephanie 2:38:17

Oh my

Dani 2:38:17

God. He wrote that he had raised his rifle to protect Roland from what he saw as an obvious threat to murder a fellow officer. Shut up, Roland spoke with KIVI and in comments quoted by the statesman, he said he hoped people would read the Attorney General's entire report instead of skimming headlines, and that he and wood believe they had done nothing wrong. Both men say they had received death threats, many of them from out of state animal rights activists. I never thought I'd say this Pita.

Stephanie 2:38:53

They're like,

Dani 2:38:54

get'em.

Stephanie 2:38:55

You fucking of this poor bull, and now you've done this. Not

Dani 2:39:00

about killing

Stephanie 2:39:01

the person, a man. They're like, you shot a bull in the stomach. Which I mean, it is a big deal, but it's, I I see why you're tickling about it, you know.

Dani 2:39:14

inside county government decisions about their employment. Dragged on Sheriff Zalman said in July of 2016. That both deputies wanted to return to work, but would have to pass psychological evaluations and go through a process before any decision. County commissioners said they had no authority to tell an elected sheriff whom to keep or fire though. And

Stephanie 2:39:39

this is the whole, this is why it's so toxic, because there's no actual policy. Sorry, go on.

Dani 2:39:48

But that they control the budget. So they can't say, they're like, yeah, we can tell'em much. You can spend, I'm disa

Stephanie 2:39:53

dissociating

Dani 2:39:56

the county's insurer, Idaho County's Risk Management program agreed to reimburse the county for the cost of paid leave and even help pay for part-time deputies to fill the gap. That's what insurance is for

Stephanie 2:40:08

sure.

Dani 2:40:09

Uh, also in August of 2016, justice for Jack Leaders, Becca Barrow and Mike McLaughlin announced that they had learned from multiple sources. That neither deputy would return to the Adams County Sheriff's Office and look on, on the deputy side. Should not. There is heated. Heated opinions.

Stephanie 2:40:32

And why would they wanna continue to live and work there?

Dani 2:40:34

No. It is

Stephanie 2:40:36

at every traffic stop.

Dani 2:40:38

Mm-hmm. Stop. Mm-hmm.

Stephanie 2:40:39

It's probably a 70% chance that

Dani 2:40:41

you killed Jack. You're a fucking murderer. Go ahead, write me a ticket.

Stephanie 2:40:45

Yeah, you murder And they're gonna be relentless and

Dani 2:40:50

uh, attorney Jim Davis representing the county initially did not confirm that later it emerged that Roland had actually resigned back on November 30th, 2015 to take a seasonal job. Public records from the insurance pool showed that only wood, not Roland was still being reimbursed for paid leave. So look, Roland was like amounts post certification records still listed Roland as an Adams County employee because the sheriff's office had not yet submitted a separation form.'cause this was all on the down low.

Stephanie 2:41:32

Yeah, it always is.

Dani 2:41:33

Roland refused to comment wood stayed on paid leave until August 31st, 2000.

Stephanie 2:41:39

Why wouldn't you

Dani 2:41:39

milk it bitch, when his employment with Adams County ended? County officials would not say whether he resigned or was terminated

Stephanie 2:41:47

paid vacation. While were deciding

Dani 2:41:50

citing personal privacy rules

Stephanie 2:41:52

it, I'm sorry, who isn't going to take a paid leave? Well, if you, you know who

Dani 2:41:58

didn't

Stephanie 2:41:59

You wanna investigate a something on my job for a year?

Dani 2:42:03

You

Stephanie 2:42:03

know, he didn't. And I paid

Dani 2:42:04

Roland. Meanwhile, the Yantis family tried to live their lives amid the grief. Sarah and her husband Mike moved back to the ranch to help Donna after her heart attack, Sarah became pregnant with her second child. A few months after the shooting That fall with another calf, crop and hunting season approaching and the cows do to come home from the mountains. The family squeezed in a baby shower at the Seven Devil's Cafe in council.

Stephanie 2:42:34

We've been there,

Dani 2:42:34

been there. Love it. Uh, tiny cowboy hat. Some boots set on hay bales as decorations.

Stephanie 2:42:41

Very cutesy.

Dani 2:42:43

You gotta find some light.

Stephanie 2:42:45

You have to again, find a way to heal. And that might be community action. That might be a

Dani 2:42:52

baby

Stephanie 2:42:52

helping a family, celebrating a baby. Just once. I always say this, get in where you fit in. I didn't make that up, but that's like

Dani 2:43:02

Yeah.

Stephanie 2:43:02

Where I try to

Dani 2:43:04

find a little light. Yeah. In all of this, Okay. Donna brought her famous sweet and sour meatballs. Wanna hit her up. neighbors and supporters brought pies, cake. the women laughed more that afternoon than they had in months. Justice for Jack supporters hosted a barbecue outside, so Donna could be honored in person since she had missed the earlier school memorial.

Stephanie 2:43:25

Right. Oh,

Dani 2:43:25

because she was read justice for Jack bracelets circulated those forever place. Yeah. people from as far as Boise and Middleton, who had followed the case online, drove up to show support. Donna thanked everyone for their love and prayers. I thought this was sweet, like to miss.

Stephanie 2:43:44

And this was like a newer fa like this is 2016 or 2018. Like I feel like it wasn't as, things didn't go as viral and stuff. And so just to have so much support.

Dani 2:43:54

Yeah.

Stephanie 2:43:54

That's really cool.

Dani 2:43:56

And for her to be able to get, look, she did not get to attend.

Stephanie 2:44:00

Yeah.

Dani 2:44:01

The memorial, the big memorial for her husband. Oh. How

Stephanie 2:44:04

she is that.

Dani 2:44:04

And so just to feel that love. Oh, I'm gonna get emotional just to feel that love from c the community.

Stephanie 2:44:10

Mm-hmm. That still supporting. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's fucking huge.

Dani 2:44:14

Um, justice for Jack continued to hold rallies at the state capitol and in council. Supporters wore the redlight fuck pancake supporters wore the red bracelets, some mailed. As far as other states and overseas, many said that they did not believe justice had been served, but they were committed to non-violent advocacy. And I That's great to hear. In October of 2017, the family turned their tort claim into a federal lawsuit. Donna, daughter, Sarah, and Loretta and nephew, rowdy. Filed a civil rights and wrongful death complaint in the US District Court against Adams County. they turned their court claim into a federal lawsuit. regarding the tort claim.

Stephanie 2:45:03

The federal lawsuit.

Dani 2:45:05

Yes. The federal lawsuit, it was a 26 page suit, alleged that deputies created a deadly response to. Fictional non-deadly threat.

Stephanie 2:45:15

Mm-hmm.

Dani 2:45:16

It claimed they fired with the intent to kill rather than using warnings or less lethal shots that they handcuffed Donna and rowdy at gunpoint and that both believed that they were about to be executed. How fucking scary. Yeah. It said the sheriff failed to separate the deputies for more than an hour after the shooting. Yes. Allowed them to coordinate stories and was deliberately indifferent to their training deficiencies and checkered work histories. Check. Check. The complaints said the deputies falsely asserted that Jack shot Roland, when in fact Roland was uninjured and that any discharge from Jack's rifle if it happened, was accidental and caused by the deputy's actions. He's talking about them shooting up his gun, the suit alleged con constitutional violations, assault, battery unreasonable seizure, false imprisonment. An infliction of emotional distress. It sought unspecified damages beyond the statutory cap already addressed in the tort claim. The statesman reached out to the sheriff and informed deputies for comment. Their attorney declined, and the undersheriff, Jeff Brown, did not discuss the suit, of course.

Stephanie 2:46:33

Okay.

Dani 2:46:34

By 2018, that lawsuit quietly ended. In one brief report, the associated press noted that a federal judge had dismissed the case. After a settlement was reached between the family, Adams County, the sheriff, and the deputies. Donna said she could not talk about the details, but made it clear that no amount of money could replace her husband. Later through public records requests, journalists confirmed that the Idaho County's Risk Management Program paid$2.6 million to settle the wrongful death case. Get it, Donna.

Stephanie 2:47:12

And I get it, kiddos, just like she said, I know that it doesn't,

Dani 2:47:16

it

Stephanie 2:47:16

doesn't fix it, it does not ever fix it.

Dani 2:47:19

Mm-hmm. You know, and she'd been with Jack her whole life since they were teenagers and so, and they had a ranch to run, and I'm telling you, look. You gotta give men credit where credit is due. And look, I don't wanna be out building fences. I wanna hire somebody to do that.'cause that's what my husband used to do.

Stephanie 2:47:41

Yeah.

Dani 2:47:42

So I need to maintain our livelihood.

Stephanie 2:47:44

Yeah. How am I gonna carry on this?

Dani 2:47:46

And yeah. I'm, you know, in my sixties and I don't build fences

Stephanie 2:47:51

and I had a fucking heart attack on the side of the road

Dani 2:47:54

because you, while

Stephanie 2:47:54

being

Dani 2:47:55

you fucking

Stephanie 2:47:56

arrested

Dani 2:47:56

DBAs. Um, so the officials noted that the settlement did not include any admission of wrongdoing.

Stephanie 2:48:04

It never does. That's part of the settlement. That's

Dani 2:48:07

why

Stephanie 2:48:07

you do,

Dani 2:48:08

we don't want

Stephanie 2:48:09

all this dirty. If we could just say that we actually didn't do anything wrong, we're gonna pay you all this money. Not'cause we did something wrong, but just'cause we're like feeling friendly today. Yeah. We are just feeling friendly. We like you guys, we didn't do anything wrong.

Dani 2:48:23

Donna again, told reporters that the legal end brought no closure because Jack was so. Yeah,

Stephanie 2:48:29

and that's, I think that's a huge part of closure, of admitting, like if the sheriff's office could have said, yes, these people shouldn't have been hired. At least you're like, thank you. I like we've been saying, you know,

Dani 2:48:43

if it's a small win, it's not even about the

Stephanie 2:48:46

money, and you hope that it will influence other offices because then do you want a two point whatever million settlement on your hands? No. Hopefully other places will learn.

Dani 2:48:59

And still, three years after the shooting, the community of council still felt the shadow of that November night, some people remained angry at law enforcement. Others worried that deputies everywhere might second guess themselves in dangerous situations. The sheriff had been reelected. Wood and Roland were no longer on the floors. The garners continued to heal. Let's not forget about the garners.

Stephanie 2:49:27

Yeah.

Dani 2:49:27

Continue to heal and push for changes in open range law. Donna and her daughters tried to keep the ranch going and raise the next generation. Justice for Jack supporters kept wearing the red bracelets and telling Jack stories.

Stephanie 2:49:44

Crazy story. And just to know that you've alluded to this a few times on the podcast, and even just with me like in Chit Chat and knowing how convoluted and sticky and messy this was. I'll give my little final thought opinion. Let's go. So first off, as far as what I think happened, and this is only my opinion, this is all just conjecture, speculation. Previous behavior, previous history is the best predictor of future behavior. So if these were squeaky clean officers that were like beacons in their town and volunteering, and everyone's like, this is the cop that saved me and did this and, and had never had any bad ripping. A 78-year-old brittle poor man out of an A thing poaching

Dani 2:50:46

deer

Stephanie 2:50:47

and WWE style harming, uh, a base defenseless man, let's just be real. If that hadn't happened, I would feel differently. I, I think that they were being, as we've seen when people do have their body cams on, of cops behaving badly,

Dani 2:51:08

tee bags,

Stephanie 2:51:08

I think they were doing that. secondly. The testimony that he wasn't willing to change. I think that that was pure brotherhood. And listen, they tried to give him an out and be like, oh, it'll help you if they both don't talk or change, it helps both of them Right. And die and they know it. Mm-hmm. And, and it is literally a thing. If we stick, if we put up the wall, the curtain, then we will protect each other. And I that it is all my opinion just from me hearing it. What do you think about that part?

Dani 2:51:51

But I also think maybe just for half a second that,

Stephanie 2:51:55

or maybe he even believed it was that way.

Dani 2:51:58

It happened so fast. He might not have known and maybe deep, deep down he might. I mean, I have a second

Stephanie 2:52:06

to, but he wasn't sure. And so he doesn't, if he's not sure, he doesn't wanna throw someone under the bus.

Dani 2:52:11

Mm-hmm. I think that that's

Stephanie 2:52:12

the same No, it could, it could be that way too.

Dani 2:52:14

He's just like, for

Stephanie 2:52:15

sure I can give

Dani 2:52:16

you that. He doesn't, have you ever not trusted your memory?

Stephanie 2:52:19

Yes. And so if I was like, I don't know,

Dani 2:52:21

I'm just gonna

Stephanie 2:52:22

stick with

Dani 2:52:22

my, I'm

Stephanie 2:52:23

just grab that person. But I don't feel like I saw it,

Dani 2:52:26

so I'm just gonna stick with what I said

Stephanie 2:52:28

and that's what I said and what I said is what I said. And here we go.

Dani 2:52:32

Yeah. Um, look, I don't think Roland was, I wanna say this and just, I don't think Roland was the bad guy in this. I don't, even though he had that little weird

Stephanie 2:52:47

I got shot thing.

Dani 2:52:48

No.

Stephanie 2:52:49

No, I, I think that overall there was some fuckery and unnecessary escalation because if you've, if that's how you perform at a traffic stop, a low stress, low risk, 78-year-old man, no per no real perceived harm to yourself. No. And then. You have tempers flaring of someone who's deeply hurt about what you've done to their animal, and they're carrying a very large gun. And you also maybe fucked up in how you shot that gun. So you're embarrassed. And as, as a dude, this is a big deal. You don't know how to shoot a gun and shoot an animal correctly.

Dani 2:53:28

Jack said, put that piece of shit away.

Stephanie 2:53:30

Yeah,

Dani 2:53:31

take your little fucking AR

Stephanie 2:53:32

15.

Dani 2:53:32

That's,

Stephanie 2:53:33

I think we all know men, that that type of thing would hurt them deeply and you would even feel unsafe around them if someone addressed them in that way. So my opinion is that it, that's how it probably went down, is it was these very, a very toxic attitude and previously noted and documented bad behavior in non-threatening situations. And now you're in a situation where someone has a gun and has a cop

Dani 2:54:02

and then

Stephanie 2:54:02

it's, you are not used to someone being able to even hold a gun around you. Right. That's a forward thing. And now

Dani 2:54:07

he's talking shit to you because you're a fucking idiot kid,

Stephanie 2:54:10

and he's holding a gun.

Dani 2:54:11

He's telling you you're an idiot.

Stephanie 2:54:13

And he's holding a gun, which people can't even hold a pocket knife. People can't hold a candy bar sometimes without getting shot because they think it's a gun. Like, and now this motherfucker has the audacity to talk shit to you, and he's holding a gun, and you're now, my life's in danger. I was threatened for my life. My opinion is how I feel that this probably went. But, and he

Dani 2:54:37

went to grab him saying like, what the fuck?

Stephanie 2:54:40

To get to check him and get him to respect you, because if you're holding that gun, that's it. You better be bowing down to me even more than the 78-year-old in the car. You better be

Dani 2:54:53

guys. I'm just, I'm just gonna do this. I, I just,

Stephanie 2:54:56

and if someone's not acting like that, you're like.

Dani 2:55:00

Yeah. Jack turned around and said,

Stephanie 2:55:02

go.

Dani 2:55:03

What Jack said was, go fuck yourself. I got this.

Stephanie 2:55:07

Put that piece of shit away.

Dani 2:55:08

Don't question. Like, Jack was like, I got this. And then the cop was like,

Stephanie 2:55:13

you, he's here to just take care of business. And he question

Dani 2:55:16

questioned me.

Stephanie 2:55:17

And with a gun, I'm fearful. I, I suddenly feel fear and listen, I know that this isn't everything I know. I know that we've all seen that type of reaction on a body cam or a TikTok or whatever. It happens. It's a, it's unfortunate

Dani 2:55:34

mm-hmm

Stephanie 2:55:34

that it maybe makes people think that all cops are that way. But again, let's keep working towards making this not a thing and not giving people a slap on the wrist and not letting people go to other, there's so many things that we can do and it will help all good cops. It will help.

Dani 2:55:53

Because

Stephanie 2:55:54

there isn't good reputation and proof of people acting like a day bad.

Dani 2:55:58

There are good police officers

Stephanie 2:56:00

and there are

Dani 2:56:01

a lot, but these facts

Stephanie 2:56:04

and there's laws that we can put in to weed out these people.

Dani 2:56:10

I just feel really, I feel like just from all my research I'm gonna get upset. I feel like Jack was a good dude.

Stephanie 2:56:18

Yeah.

Dani 2:56:18

He's a hardworking, like fucking Idaho.

Stephanie 2:56:22

A good friend to all

Dani 2:56:24

tried and true guy and he was pissed off that they fucked with his animals

Stephanie 2:56:31

and, and was just trying to get it done.

Dani 2:56:33

Yeah. And his poor wife having a fucking heart attack. Oh my God. And his, his girls and that community

Stephanie 2:56:42

and having to see it and live through the gossip,

Dani 2:56:46

the responsibility of following up on resumes and. And, and

Stephanie 2:56:52

just doing your job. Yeah. And having your cam on,

Dani 2:56:55

turn your fucking camera

Stephanie 2:56:56

on. That could have, if they were truly innocent again, I know said that would said a hundred times it

Dani 2:57:00

would've been done.

Stephanie 2:57:00

It would've been done.

Dani 2:57:03

All right. Kids. That's a long one. It's a

Stephanie 2:57:06

struggle. It's a long one. But you know, listen, I love, I love all the cases that you find, Danny, this one,

Dani 2:57:16

it was taxing. It was a lot,

Stephanie 2:57:18

it was very taxing, but, and they're all tragic'cause someone dies and, I mean, except for the bunny bash, thousands and thousands of bunnies died. But it's like they're all serious. But the ones where there's just so much fuckery, we love to, to delve into that. And so

Dani 2:57:40

it's

Stephanie 2:57:40

long.

Dani 2:57:41

We had a lot of

Stephanie 2:57:41

commentary,

Dani 2:57:42

but I'm telling you, there's so much.

Stephanie 2:57:44

This is such an interesting case

Dani 2:57:46

and it's so Idaho ish, I think

Stephanie 2:57:49

very Idaho.

Dani 2:57:50

Are we that far? Yeah. Look at us. Not even keeping count.'cause we're just having a good fucking time.

Stephanie 2:57:55

We are.

Dani 2:57:56

But yes. I love you, sis.

Stephanie 2:57:58

I love you too, Danny.

Dani 2:57:59

And,

Stephanie 2:58:00

and we love you. Like if you are listening, whether you're a first time listener or listening, you've been here since the beginning. Like it's just fucking cool and you guys send us cool emails, you leave us cool comments and, and you hold us accountable when we need to be. And we appreciate that as well. We, we don't know what the fuck we're doing

Dani 2:58:19

and you catch us in the grocery store and say, I love it.

2:58:22

It's

Stephanie 2:58:23

amazing. So,

Dani 2:58:24

and that makes my heart smile because it is, this is a labor a love for sure. Mm-hmm. We

Stephanie 2:58:29

don't, we have not earned a dime from it. And we, we would love to eventually,

Dani 2:58:34

maybe someday, but we're just doing it.

Stephanie 2:58:36

We're doing it to maybe get there and your support, that that's what makes your support like,

Dani 2:58:42

yeah.

Stephanie 2:58:42

Super cool.

Dani 2:58:43

Um, so. Olivia says, thank you for going on this journey with me. I had to say that.

Stephanie 2:58:49

Aw, you are welcome. I'm so glad. Honestly, even in the hard times, I'm so glad. Here we are.

Dani 2:58:54

All

Stephanie 2:58:54

right, altogether. Love you. Bye. Oh, ten four rubber ducky.

Dani 2:58:59

Fuck yeah.