Packaging Etcetera Podcast
The Packaging Etcetera Podcast is by and large a forum for discussing events and trends in the packaging industry. While packaging is the focus, Etcetera is a reference to an occasional wild card - maybe something serious and career focused, or something scientific or maybe even something fun and playful.
Packaging Etcetera Podcast
Behind the Pharmacy Shelf: The Unseen World of Packaging Automation with Leo Frias
Take a fascinating journey behind the scenes of pharmaceutical packaging with Leo Frias, Sales Manager at Fariba Pack, as he pulls back the curtain on the invisible world of automation that brings medications safely to pharmacy shelves nationwide.
When you grab that prescription from your local Walgreens or CVS, you're holding the end result of an extraordinarily complex manufacturing and packaging process. "The average person doesn't think twice about the world of automation that happens behind that final product," Leo explains, revealing how each bottle, blister pack, or carton requires multiple verification systems, precise machinery, and rigorous quality control before reaching consumers.
Leo shares the remarkable story of his unexpected entry into the packaging industry eleven years ago when his Italian neighbor (now colleague and friend) invited him to join a company representing over a century of combined engineering experience. Despite lacking a technical background, Leo embraced the challenge of learning the intricate world of pharmaceutical packaging automation—proving that diverse career paths can flourish in this specialized field.
The conversation explores cutting-edge projects including high-speed suppository production lines running at 22,000 units per hour and advanced packaging systems for vaccine manufacturers. We discuss how artificial intelligence is transforming the industry through deep learning algorithms and remote troubleshooting capabilities, while still maintaining the crucial human element that ensures quality and safety.
Beyond the technical aspects, Leo reveals how the industry thrives on personal connections formed at major trade shows like Interphex and Pack Expo, often strengthened through shared passions for food, fine spirits, and cigars. These relationships form the foundation of successful business partnerships that drive innovation throughout the packaging world.
Listen now to gain a new appreciation for the remarkable journey every pharmaceutical product takes before reaching your medicine cabinet. You'll never look at a simple prescription bottle the same way again!
Hello everyone, welcome back to another episode of the Packaging Etc Podcast. Today we'll be talking with my good friend and industry colleague, mr Leo Frias, sales Manager at Fariba Pack. Leo, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for having me, sir. It's an honor. Thank you, yeah, no absolutely.
Speaker 1:I feel like it's been a long time coming, even though we just started talking about the podcast idea a few months ago. I feel like this is kind of coming full circle. So it's nice to have you on and looking forward to chatting with you. So, I guess, for the listeners out there, if you wouldn't mind just start by telling us a little bit about yourself, who you are, where you've been, what you do, where you've been what you do, sure.
Speaker 2:So I started in this industry, I would say almost 11 years ago and, you know, working with automation packaging machinery, specifically mainly targeting pharma, the pharma sector, but also the nutraceutical, confectionery, snack and some industrial Basically, anyone that has a production line that's looking for automation, we can support it, basically. So yeah, and I can talk a little bit more about how I entered the industry. I came from a totally different industry altogether. A funny story. I'll be very brief, but the funny story goes you know, this guy from Italy moved in and he, you know, to my neighborhood. He bought a house, one house next to mine and we became neighbors and you know, we became instant friends. He is from Bologna, italy, where one of our factories is located, and about five years in he came to me one day he goes listen, you know what would it take for you to come work with me, and you know the rest is history. What would it take for you to come work with me, and you know the rest is history.
Speaker 1:And by neighbor and colleague you're referring to the often imitated, never duplicated McKellie, of course.
Speaker 2:Mr McKellie Leonardi. He is my friend, my brother first and foremost, and also as much as he hates for me to call him that my boss.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, all right, fair enough, fair enough. You two are like a package deal. You don't get one without the other.
Speaker 2:You know a lot of people say that A lot of you know I consider you a friend, of course. You know we work together. You're a partner. People that know us they say the same thing. You know we, we had to, you know, separate for about a year, you know, and go on a different, go a different, different path for about a year, you know, for for logistical reasons, because we were establishing our own branch office here in North America, office here in North America, you know, walking away from being distributed through a third party, through a different company. And but yeah, I mean we work very, very well together. We again working together for 11 years. And yeah, yeah, and I'm very grateful to him for giving me the opportunity to join this industry and continue to learn as much as I have learned and continue to learn. There's a lot to learn in this industry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's so much that I feel like you could spend an entire career and still not learn everything.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, I mean machinery is one of the people that are engineers Like you know you have an engineer background. You know our other major, major team player, joseph Arena. You know he's an engineer as well. You know you both have engineering backgrounds, mechanical engineering to be specific, and I don't I don't have that background, you know. So for me it was a little more challenging to get the hang of it.
Speaker 1:You pretty well much got the hang of it, I would say.
Speaker 2:I don't know. Sometimes I think I'm expected to know more than what I know sometimes, which?
Speaker 1:is like ah Leo, you're in sales, Confidence is king. Be confident, even when you're in sales Confidence is king Be confident even when you're not.
Speaker 2:You know the confidence comes from. You said something that was key. I think that it's more than selling right, it's really trying to create a partnership. You have a business, we have a product that can help grow your business and through the partnership we both grow. And you know, I think, what reinforces confidence, if you will, it's the product right. So we have a great product and we have a great team and a great manufacturing team and a great structure here to back up that product. So I think that inspires confidence when you're out there talking and giving a presentation and so on. So it's interesting. I had a little bit of a bet with myself coming into this giving a presentation and so on.
Speaker 1:So yeah, so it's interesting. I had a little bit of bet, a bet with myself coming into this. I said you know, I know McKellie is going to come up at some point, but I wonder, if it's, you know how, how far into the into the episode will it be? What will we get? And we made it less than two minutes. So, mckellie, if you're listening, and you better be listening at some point under two minutes and you already made your grand entrance. So there you go. So, fariba Pack, do me a favor. Just for everybody out there listening that may not be familiar 30 second sales pitch. What is Fariba Pack exactly?
Speaker 2:So FaribaPak is the branch office of two manufacturing companies One, pharmares, specializing in thermoforming and cold-forming technology. So we think about thermoforming, think contact lenses, deep draw blisters, medical devices, unit dose cups, suppositories and so on. And then Kariba Kariba 40 years in industry manufacturing, cartoning, bundling, case packing machines and technology. So among between them we're talking about over 100 years of engineering experience and automation and packaging machinery manufacturing, for, you know, mainly for the pharma sector, and we are the branch office here in North America.
Speaker 1:Okay, I've actually been fortunate enough to actually go to the Kariba facility.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right With Kelly many years ago. Yeah, that's right. I've always been jealous of that.
Speaker 1:I have to say it was an eye-opening and a stomach-expanding experience being in Bologna in general, but going there with the I don't even know what the best way to describe him would be the unofficial mayor, the US-based mayor of. Bologna. He's a rock star. He really is, he's a freaking rock star.
Speaker 2:He's so modest too. He's a freaking rock star, that guy.
Speaker 1:Well, I'll tell you what. Let's stop feeding his ego. Let's move on from that. We'll talk about something else. Obviously, confidentiality is key, especially in pharma and med device, but any particular projects that you've got going on right now that are kind of blowing your hair back, that you're allowed to talk about, I could talk about the.
Speaker 2:I could talk about the project, the product, but of course, because of the confidentiality, the, the, the ndas in place, you know we're limited to this, you know to get too further into the companies and whatnot, but, uh, you know some of them you may be familiar with, uh, some of them you may not be, but currently, currently we're working on. We have a suppository line, so think aluminum suppositories at 22,000 suppositories an hour, linked to a carding machine. So it's a line composed of the depository suppository, thermo forming machine and cold forming for aluminum, and machine can do both PVC and aluminum depositories. And also we have another project, a strip pack machine with metal detection and check wing and cartoning as well, and carry loader and Packer for another big-time pharmaceutical company, think vaccine, think vaccines. That's all I can say.
Speaker 2:But yeah, so, among a few others that we're finalizing, you know, I think I can say, as far as the product is concerned, narcan packaging line, we also have finalizing a thermoformer for a solid dose, which is solid dose. For those who don't know it's, I think, blisters, you know the tablets that go into a. You know plastic with aluminum foil you pop them open. So yeah, we're pretty busy right now with working with these kind of technologies.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Okay, and you mentioned before, you know not starting out in the packaging industry and you know not having an engineering background, which obviously is not necessarily a precursor for getting into the industry, but you know, definitely pose some challenges and whatnot, but understanding that you could spend an entire career and not learn everything just with how quickly, especially year. There are major advancements and the packaging machinery industry is no different. As part of the questionnaire that you had filled out, you had mentioned artificial intelligence and obviously people are talking a lot about AI and applications in society and social media and how it's going to impact everyday life. But how do you see artificial intelligence really impacting the packaging machinery industry? Where do you think that's headed?
Speaker 2:Well, you know, I think so. It would really depend on the technology. There are certain technologies that incorporate AI into the machine itself. For example, you have, let's say, tablet inspection, tablet inspection, capsule inspection machines. They incorporate AI into the machine with deep learning algorithms, pattern recognition and so on For packaging. I think that the way that we've been using it and how ai has been making things easier for us is in project management. I I see a big, big uh improvement and it's so much more efficient, expedient with ai as a tool to to help us manage projects. It and so as far right now, this is how that's the advantage that I see, with us using AI and in our organization.
Speaker 1:Okay, what about stuff like? You know equipment troubleshooting, upset conditions. You know AI, leveraging AI technology for you know supplanting the typical hey, my machine's down, you need to get a technician on site today. You know taking up some of that space and maybe getting a shortening the amount of time it takes you to get your line back up and operational. Obviously, downtime is costly for everybody, for different organizations, different types of products. More so, do you think AI could help out in that arena as well?
Speaker 2:That's a good question. I think so. I think that there's always going to be a human element involved. Yeah, you know our machines, all of our machines are equipped with remote access capabilities, right? So if there's anything that goes wrong that our local technicians cannot address, you know we can. You know the factories can log on. All you have to do is provide the Wi-Fi and they can troubleshoot it from the factory, from Italy, directly with our local engineer they're supporting. So at that point, yeah, I think that the factories will need to make that decision on how.
Speaker 1:But clearly, I mean AI is growing in such a way that I foresee that being a factor I do. Okay, going back to the questionnaire, and I had mentioned before in our call that you had used a phrase that I felt was kind of interesting. You had used the words behind the pharmacy shelf and trying to communicate everything, and obviously everything is a pretty big topic, but everything that goes into getting a product pharmaceutical, medical device, combination product from ideation to that pharmacy shelf, so that behind the pharmacy shelf I felt like would be a great podcast name. So I feel like that's going to be the name of our episode here. But what is it? Obviously we don't have hours, but what is it that you would want to convey to the listeners Hopefully there are multiple listeners by now of the podcast, as far as conveying that message Behind the Pharmacy Shelf as to what goes on, the magic that you guys deliver.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's again a very good question and observation. The average person will go into Walgreens or CVS and they don't think twice. They don't know the world of automation that happens behind that final product being delivered and put on that shelf. Everything from you know whether it's eye drops, whether it's a nasal spray that needs to go into a carton. That bottle, once it gets filled, it needs to get labeled. There's a whole bunch of verifications that need to happen before that. You know, if you have a literature, that literature needs to be, of course, automated into the carton. There's a barcode that needs to be verified and so the variable data on the carton needs to be printed and then verified with the camera. Barcode needs to be verified. I mean, there's a whole lot of automation and verifications that go behind a final product. And then you know I use liquid filling, for example, but it could be liquid filling, it could be a suppository, it could be a contact lens, anything that's going into a carton or a tablet going into a bottle.
Speaker 2:You know there's a world of different type of automation that takes place before that final product gets shipped.
Speaker 2:And how does it get shipped right? So let's say, you know, from the carton to a, let's say, a bundler, if it needs to be bundled or wrapped to a case packer, whether it's a bottle that's going into a top-load case packer or a carton going into a side-load case packer. Then we also have palletization technology and equipment. If that case then goes into a pallet and there's a pattern of schematics on that pallet that the machine would adhere to, depending on what we call a recipe, so all of that happens before it gets to then that palette, you know, depending on how many pallets, uh uh, you can stack up, then that gets wrapped around with the wraparound station, with, with the, with the, with the plastic wrap, and then it goes, then it gets shipped off to the world. So again, I'm always, you know, when I walk into Walgreens and I see people, you know, buying their stuff. They have no idea. So it's very interesting, you know, when you do explain to people the world of automation, that happens behind it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's an interesting concept. I think it extends obviously well beyond pharmaceutical and the heavily regulated industries. But packaging in general. I studied packaging at Rutgers and I was originally in civil engineering. I had recently, at that point, given up on my dream of the New York Yankees calling needing me to play third base for them, although I still, even nowadays, I still hold out hope. Maybe they'll give me a call.
Speaker 2:You and me both.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but yeah. So I switched from civil into packaging and the initial thought that I had when I started learning about packaging was oh, I guess I'm going to make boxes for a living. And it wasn't until that light bulb I like to call it a light bulb moment and that happened for me very early on, where you realize just how much goes into. You know, you can spend all the time in the world developing the best product on the market, but unless you have the proper packaging wrapped around it from, you know the old definition of protect, inform, transport and sell, going back to my old textbook years. You know, without the proper packaging around it, you don't have a product. And how many people, how many companies are involved in getting that product out on the shelf at the stores.
Speaker 1:To the point where, when I really started to understand the full scope of that, when I would go grocery shopping, what should take me an hour could take me four hours, because I would get stuck in the aisles and I'd just be staring at things on the shelf and imagining, hey, that's a bi-injected cap, that's something new, I haven't seen that before. And then wondering oh, how do they make that? I wonder who makes it? How many cavities is it? Let me pop the cap off and it would take me forever to get through the grocery store. My wife will not go grocery shopping with me because of that reason, because she loses me in the aisles, because I'm constantly stopping and looking at things. So it's that it's that light bulb moment for what happened for me, and I love talking to people that really don't understand the packaging industry and when I finally explain it to them and I get to see them experience that light bulb moment, it's kind of cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is. I have to agree. And just to add to that, you know, you know, when you watch a movie and you see the credits, and you see everything that goes behind that, everything that goes behind making a movie, all these entities, all these different things. So there's a similarity in packaging because if it's, let's say, let's say, a suppository, you know, we have the company that provides the film, the aluminum film, the company that provides the PVC, the glycerin right, the formulation of the glycerin. Then, within our own machines, we, you know, I think we probably should do like 99% of everything in-house with our machine shops, but the buyer needs to then work with current suppliers with leaf, which apparently there's a lot of in the pharma industry. So there's a lot of players. It's not just the machines, there's a wide range of different players that are involved to bring this whole thing to fruition that people don't think about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's a lot of careers, a lot of people feeding their families off of just getting that package to the end well, not even the end user, but to the company that's going to eventually use it to assemble the final package and product and get it out on the market. So it's really kind of interesting. I enjoy those light bulb moments when I get to see someone experience that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure it's fun.
Speaker 1:So you know, obviously, before we started this episode, you and I were catching up for a few minutes and you had mentioned that we met at a trade show. We did. I'm assuming that was Interfax, right in New York, I think.
Speaker 2:That was Interfax of 2015. 2015. What do you have notes?
Speaker 1:I remember. Your memory is better than mine, but yeah, that timing does line up right. So I have my own I'll call it bucket list of trade shows. I've never been to Interpac. I've heard Interpac is massive. I want to say it's even bigger than PacExpo Chicago, which I've been to multiple times. But Interpac would definitely be on my list. What would you say is your favorite trade show? What's the best one out there?
Speaker 2:So that's a good question. So I haven't been to Interpac either, or Akima McKellie, our rock star he's the one that takes the lead there, but I think I'll be going to uh, the next uh german trade show. Uh, coming up, that's a good question. I, you know I'm a new yorker, new york native, uh, so I think I have the most fun in new york. I'm from new york, you know I I do a lot of the planning, a lot of the restaurant reservations for the after show dinners with our partners and friends, which you know it's a big part of what we do.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, you're the social butterfly, I get it.
Speaker 2:For traffic. Traditionally it's Chicago, but I'm torn between Interfax and Peck Expo. Where I've had Interfax, I have a sweet spot because that's where I met Jeff Davis, that's where I met you, that's where I met Scott Comeau, that's where I met a lot of my friends and partners that I've worked with over the years when I first first started with this industry. So I think you know I will say Interfax in New York City.
Speaker 1:Okay, I guess I have a little bit of a. I guess it's an anti-bias, home-field anti-bias. I guess I just kind of take New York for granted and I guess, because they're not necessarily on the same level I mean the Javits is obviously not McCormick Place, you know, as far as size and attendance and whatnot you know I can usually knock out Interfax or Eastpac and you know I can do it in a half a day or three quarters of a day, depending upon how many vendor meetings I have set up.
Speaker 1:But Chicago, you know, last year I was there. It took me three full days. I actually had to extend my trip because I was going to run out of time. You know I didn't plan accordingly and three years ago when I went, I was there all four days and it was value added all four of those days and let me tell you, I was exhausted by the end of it. My feet were killing me. But the amount of people I was able to meet with and the amount of technology I was able to absorb and conversations had and contacts made, Chicago, PacExpo, Chicago is my number one. It's my favorite, far and away.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know it's hard for me, you know, because you know Chicago also. I mean, we have so much fun in Chicago. You know, we have pretty much our own dedicated. We have our own personal chef in Chicago and one of the most celebrated Italian restaurants in downtown Chicago, which is Velarde. And you know Michele Lennarty, our rock star. He's personal friends with the head chef and the person that pretty much runs that restaurant and I think you've been there with us.
Speaker 1:I uh, yeah, I was fortunate enough to go there last fall, yeah and uh you know it's just, it's just an experience.
Speaker 2:You know he comes out, he, we eat stuff that's not even on the menu. You know, um, so it's yeah, I mean I don't know, it's hard, it's hard, it's tough, that's a tough one. I mean we have a great time in both, but you know, yeah, I, you know, yeah, you know going up a lot every day, you know, with, with, with our friends or partners, it's just tough, it's a tough one for me. I love them both as a toss up.
Speaker 1:So, talking about Chicago, all the years I've been going out there for that show. So, talking about Chicago, all the years I've been going out there for that show, this past year is the first year I made it out to. I don't know if I told you, but Biggs Mansion, it's one of the cigar lounges out there.
Speaker 2:We were trying to make it out there together, but I was flying out first thing in the morning.
Speaker 1:Really neat place. I wish I had more time to enjoy it, but they have an upstairs that you can pay for a day pass. It's not cheap but I have a really good feeling that it's well worth it to go and experience that place. And even just going in the you know the general public location downstairs in the basement really neat little walk-in humidor and the place was packed when I was there. Lots of people. Some people knew each other, some people didn't, and it just everybody was friendly and hanging out and enjoying a good cigar.
Speaker 1:So definitely going to be on my list of places to go visit regularly when I'm in Chicago.
Speaker 2:That's something that we definitely need to coordinate much better. Um, next time we're there together, because that again, that's a passion that we share, you know, and something that I really love, that I really enjoy to do, and I'm very passionate about cigars myself, as you know.
Speaker 1:Yep. So you mentioned also that you're a bit of a foodie and that you like to cook. So, just out of curiosity, what would you say is your what's like? What's your number one dish? Like if somebody came to you and said, leo, you, you have a chance for a million dollars, but you have to cook one dish and it has to impress what, what's your go-to, what are you making?
Speaker 2:Wow, that's a. That's tough. I'll be as brief as possible, but I was the last out of my family my siblings to learn how to cook. I was spoiled growing up. I was the last one to learn how to cook me, you know, minus some really disastrous accidents that we could talk about later.
Speaker 2:You know um funny, funny as hell, but I don't know I, I you know I I do a mean seafood linguine. Um, uh, you know, uh, I do a a very, very good seafood linguine. Of course you know linguine, very al dente, with a combination of different seafoods. You know um, I cook it in a certain way with garlic, butter, olive oil, lemon with a prosecco reduction. Um, it's, it's just one of my favorite dishes to go to if I want to impress someone. And also, I, I do this uh pigeon peas and rice with uh five different type of peppers and red onion and garlic, uh, chopped up, minced very finely and, you know, uh, cooked into the rice with the pigeon peas and uh, I you know uh, chicken, I love cooking chicken.
Speaker 2:Uh, chicken is a big part of my diet because of how lean it is and high protein, so I love to cook chicken and steak. I love to cook steak, but if I had to impress someone it would probably be my seafood linguine. But again, I like to cook rice and beans. I come from a Latino backgroundino background and, um, you know, I I love to cook, uh, the traditional latin dishes as well so I, and I don't know exactly which, which demographic it comes from, but um the braised beef barbacoa barbacoa.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's Mexican, I would say.
Speaker 1:Is it Okay?
Speaker 2:I would say, yeah, it's a popular, very popular dish.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you like that. Oh, it's one of my favorites. Actually, the first time I ever had it was I was at I want to say it was a Cuban restaurant in Hoboken, new Jersey, years ago and I was a little out of my element. I had never really been to a Cuban restaurant before, so I'm not a really adventurous eater. I'm like a meat and potatoes guy and you know, give me a steak and mashed potatoes and a glass of scotch and I'm happy. So I had to find something on the menu that I would go for, and you know the Cuban sandwich is always a nice go-to. But you know, I'm like I want to try something new and you know, the barbacoa just sounded interesting and when I ordered it I was blown away, but I was never really sure what cuisine it actually came from.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a great dish. I mean, listen, with these countries, you know, and you know Mexico, cuban, the Dominican Republic, puerto Rico, you know Argentina, you have Peru, colombia, ecuador, I mean you have all these that have their own specialty dishes that are just amazing. I've been fortunate because you know all these that have their own specialty dishes that are just amazing. I've been fortunate because I love to eat food from different countries within Latin America and, of course, one of my best dining experiences in Bologna, italy, in Florence, same, yeah, at that point point, you know you could drop the mic there. I mean, it's a bologna for me, it has. Bologna for me is truly the food capital of the world, in my opinion. I mean, florence comes very close, also very, very good. They're known for their florentine steaks, but Bologna, for me, just takes the cake.
Speaker 1:It's interesting that you phrase it that way, because the way I describe now granted, I've been to Bologna twice, fortunate enough to go twice, but the way I would describe it is Italy is the food capital of the world. Bologna is the food capital of Italy.
Speaker 2:That's my personal that's the world accord to Matt, but that's just kind of how I explain it to people that have not made it yet.
Speaker 2:I like it, I like it, I like it. Yeah, I mean you have a point. I mean you know Italy, you know before it was Italy. You know, I think Italy became Italy in the mid to late, mid 17, 1800s. I can't remember when exactly it became Italy. They all had their own traditions, so it's just Italy itself. You raise a good point. I agree with you. Italy is the food capital of the world and Bologna is the food capital of Italy. That's a good way to put it.
Speaker 1:I never saw that before. I'm sure there's plenty of people out there that would argue. But, I'll die on that hill.
Speaker 2:I think Michele won't argue that. I think he's a little biased.
Speaker 1:Speaking of which, if I had to answer that question favorite dish to cook I would actually say I always grew up having the big Sunday family dinners at 2 o'clock and going to Grandma and Grandpa's and she'd always make her Sunday gravy and she'd have a giant pot of meatballs on the stove. And every once in a while, and unfortunately not often enough, I like to try to recreate that and I feel like I'm doing my ancestors proud. So I would probably put together macaroni and sundae gravy, garlic bread, chicken cutlets.
Speaker 2:You're making me hungry. Oh yeah, I'm getting hungry myself actually.
Speaker 1:But that's a production that's like an entire day of cooking and you know it's a labor of love, but I enjoy it. I probably have a little Frank Sinatra playing in the background, just you know for added effect.
Speaker 2:You can't be Frank man, you can't beat him. I'll tell you a funny story, you know. So people always ask me you know, like, what's my favorite Italian food? Always ask me you know, like, what's my favorite Italian food? And I have two. I have tortellini al brodo, which is, you know, tortellini pasta in the broth, and tagliatelle ragù, which is a thicker type of pasta with a ragù. There the ragù is like a meat sauce. It's a meat sauce, they call it ragù there, and I had the pleasure and the Kelly.
Speaker 2:You know, I'm sorry, I just got to bring this up because you know, and I'm not just saying and is because that's my brother, but I've eaten, but the linen, the bro in, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I mean, I've been traveling to Italy several times a year for over 11 years, okay so, eating in different places and different restaurants, amazing restaurants all over it, all, all over Bologna and Florence and Serbia and Milan and so on. And I was fortunate enough to spend a day at Michele's mom's and Michele's parents' house and she made tortelleline in the world, and I gotta tell you it's. And I'm not just, I'm not just saying this because you know to blow smoke up my brothers. You know, yeah, it was the best of the lean in the brother that I've ever tasted in my life, hands down to this day and I've had since then. And it's hands down. She made the best of the linda rollo that I've ever had, before and after. And she started with the bow and she goes you want more? I'm like yep, and next thing, you know, is that a question really? She just, she just brought the pot, like that's a good idea, just like I must have ate half the pot, if not the whole pot.
Speaker 1:Well, folks, there you have it. From Leo himself, if you ever had the chance. Mckellie's mother makes the most.
Speaker 2:She's, yeah, hands down man, amazing, just an amazing, amazing cook for sure. And then you know you can't forget the grappa, because then, dad, you know I love grappa.
Speaker 1:You know how, then that you know I love grappa. You know how much you know. Yeah, you know we love grappa. Yeah, well, grappa doesn't love me, and uh, and so we'll save that story for another time, maybe, maybe, yeah, maybe another episode down the road, another podcast we could talk about yeah, tequila and grappa.
Speaker 2:Well, no, I you know.
Speaker 1:so you're launching me right into my next question and I'm, I'm gonna, I'm gonna take my chances because, because I know we don't have hours here, but did I hear something about you talking like a bucket list idea, or are you actually doing this talking about launching?
Speaker 2:your own tequila. I'm not doing it right now, it's something that I've been, so I've been very, very passionate about tequila for the past I don't know, almost 14 years. I would say passionate about tequila for the past, I don't know, almost 14 years. I would say, you know, learning about it and, uh, appreciating, appreciating it, you know, um, the right way and uh, I'm like man, you know, it's something that I would, you know, given given the opportunity, you, you know. Again, I'm working on that. I'm working on some things. It's a few years down the road but I do have a plan to try to make something out of it. I have some friends of mine that are ready to invest and my family, like my daughter and my future son-in-law, they're behind me on that Very supportive Good. They're very supportive. So it's something that it's in the pipeline. It's in the pipeline.
Speaker 2:I think tequila for me is. I learned I didn't learn it immediately, I would say over the last four or five years I learned that it's pretty much the healthiest spirit you can drink. If you're going to enjoy a spirit, it is the healthiest. I'm also a big scotch guy. I love scotch, I love bourbon.
Speaker 1:Now you're talking in a language Yep, I want scotch.
Speaker 2:I love bourbon. Now you're talking in a language. Yep, I want to introduce you. You know Avalar. You know Avalar, avalar. No, I don't. Oh, I'm going to hook you up. I'm going to hook you up with a nice Avalar 16. It's one of my favorite scotches on the planet and, of course, I love bourbon. I used to be a big vodka guy. I love spirits. I like to appreciate the spirits again responsibly, because I like to really learn these different notes you know, settle in your palate and and what, what you're experiencing, what is that you're tasting at the front and at the back end, what's lingering. You know how the the profile is. It is it dry, is it velvety, is it creamy? You know these kind of things. You know, um, the different notes of vanilla or custard, or or or or. You know, uh, these kinds of things you know, uh, I really that's what interests me about. You know, uh, enjoying a good spirit. You know, but tequila is at the top of my list.
Speaker 1:Well listen you're. You're the first person that that educated me that, uh, tequila isn't just a, you know, a $20 bottle of Jose Cuervo and a shot licking salt off your hand that was the only way or mixing it in a Long Island iced tea or something. So I never really appreciated fine tequila until you came around. So you opened my eyes.
Speaker 2:You're welcome, it's funny. A quick note on that the reason people drink tequila with salt and lime is to deter the taste of it, and most people, college kids, associate tequila with college students getting drunk and doing shots and all that Getting crazy and letting loose.
Speaker 1:Yeah exactly.
Speaker 2:But that's the entirely wrong reason to be drinking anything, period. But a real good tequila. You don't disturb that with anything. A good quality tequila is like a good quality scotch. You're not going to do Roman Coke with a McCallum 15 or with a Glen Mirage, you know an 18-year-old. Or a Glen Fittage or pick any of the higher end. And I'm not a. I don't like peaty scotches, I like full-body flavor scotches. Mckinley likes the Le Gavelin 16-year-olds. That's one of his favorites. But yeah, the Tyler Scurrs and the Port Islands. I'm more of a McKinley 15,. You know Grand Mirage, I'm right there with you.
Speaker 1:You know I grew up, you know, my, my background is is irish and italian, and so the irish side, you know, there was, I won't say copious amounts of it, but there was, there was irish whiskey around every once in a while and, um, you know, so I kind of grew up around that. So, uh, I'll, I'll enjoy a nice glass of um jameson black barrel. Uh, that's a, that's a go-to for me. Um, you know, mccallan 12, 15, some, you know, on the scotch side, uh, my, my, um, my stepson bought me years ago, bought me a bottle of red breast which I had never heard of before wow red breast and um, you want to talk about eye opening?
Speaker 1:that's, that's a. That's a nice. It's a nice irish whiskey. I enjoy that one as well. But interestingly enough, a couple of years ago, family vacation to Ireland, we were touring around the island and one of our last nights there we stayed in a town called Carrick-on-Shannon, which is an area where we thought our family may have come from. You know, we really kind of lose our records going back that far. And I was talking to the bartender in the hotel where we were staying and he says oh yeah, there's a whole hill of Mulvies two towns over in Drumshanbo.
Speaker 1:I'm not going to even try to imitate the Irish brogue because I'm horrible at it, but he literally said there's a whole hill of Mulvies, two towns over in Drumshanbo. Come to find out Drumshanbo has a distillery. They make a gunpowder gin which is absolutely delicious I do enjoy like a nice gin and tonic, but they also make an Irish whiskey and that's actually a pretty good whiskey as well. So I have. I have a bottle of each of those in my bar downstairs.
Speaker 2:Oh no, you know we gotta we. I have a bottle of each of those in my bar downstairs. Oh no, we've got to crack that one day?
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, absolutely All right, so parting question for you Shoot. I'm taking my chance on this one again. Number one cigar. Number one tequila. What do you got?
Speaker 2:Wow, wow. I don't. I typically don't have a favorite of anything because I just, I love the experience of learning and discovering new cigars. I could tell you, at the top of my list of cigars we'll start there. Oh man, that's tough. If I'm going to say what's accessible to me that I can go and buy here in the States, that's not contraband. That's a tough one. But if I had to give you one, it would be the Patrono Universario.
Speaker 2:That line of cigars, patrono Universario, it's a nicaraguan, it's a from, from leaf to binder, to wrapper, to tobacco, everything is from that house, from the patron house in nicaragua, and, uh, they've pretty much perfected the art of construction and the flavor is amazing. Again, I it's tough because I also love the Opus X from Arturo Fuente, which is a Cuban Sea, dominican cigar maker. Again, it's all theirs. It's very common these days, which is okay, it's very common these days for a lot of cigar makers to have a hybrid cigar. It's a connecticut leaf with a cameron wrapper, or you know tobacco from, and it's, uh, it's, it's common, not that they're bad. Liga privada also, it's a cuban I'm sorry, nicaraguan brand, and they also have one of my favorites at Liga Privada, number nine, so it's among them three. You know, those are my top three. I have to give you top three.
Speaker 1:I can't give you. I would say my top.
Speaker 2:All right, fair enough. And then tequila, it's a little easier because I've had an opportunity so far. I'm more of a Blanco person. So, tequila, you have the blancos, which is no barreling, there's no aging. You have the reposados, which is some barreling three to six months depending on the process that they're using. And you have the añejo, which is eight months, 12 months or more. Know, uh, eight months, twelve months or more.
Speaker 2:Um, I'm more on the blanco side because I love that earthiness, the pepperiness, the minerality and the purity of of the agave. You know um. So I I tend to go more for that expression which is the blanco. And on that note, you know, um, for me there's a blanco which is um that has gained so much popularity these days that they're very, very hard, that they're scarce. They're very, very hard to find, and if you can find it it's marked up like three times it's Fortaleza, and Fortaleza is, for me, is king as far as the Blancos are concerned. And then, of course, you have Ocho. And then Ocho is another line of tequila which is amazing, from the Camarena family. Again, these tequilas are additive free, very natural yeast, agave and water, and then they have their traditional ways of processing it. Then Dofulano, which is another amazing tequila 140 years tradition on making tequilas. But if I had to choose one, for the sake of choosing one, it's Fortaleza. It's the best.
Speaker 1:I know you could go on for hours so it was dangerous getting into that so late in the episode.
Speaker 2:We could talk for hours. I tried to sum it up as briefly as I could. I appreciate that, but you know what that means that we could set up another podcast to talk about this.
Speaker 1:Well, we talked about that, I think. Number two we're going to have to find a cigar lounge and we'll record over cigars.
Speaker 2:That'll be amazing. We can even discuss about what we're experiencing, the kind of cigars we're smoking and and all that. You know what we're pairing it with, you know, cause that's another thing that we can discuss. You know what I like to pair my cigars with, you know.
Speaker 1:So oh yeah, absolutely Sounds like a plan. I like it Well, leo listen I I really appreciate your time today. Thank you so much. It's been great chatting with you. Definitely have to do this again sometime, but for now we'll say goodbye and again, thank you everyone for listening and take care.
Speaker 2:I'm humbled. Thank you so much and I look forward to doing this again. You let me know when and where, and I'm there Will do. Thank you so much. Be good, have a good night, my friend. Thank you, bye, ciao.