Packaging Etcetera Podcast

From Event Design to Food Packaging Overnight

• Matthew Mulvey • Season 2 • Episode 2

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0:00 | 52:16
SPEAKER_02:

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of the Packaging Et cetera podcast. In my transparent effort to show that nepotism is quite alive and well, I'd like to introduce my cousin Aaron Cotrell to the episode.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, this is uh this is my first relative on the show, so excited for that. And uh just to lay the cards out on the table for everyone, yes, Erin is my cousin, my second cousin to be exact. Uh our mothers, our first cousins. But Erin's not here with me today solely because we're related, as it turns out. She has quite an interesting, I'll call it packaging adjacent backstory, and one that I thought would provide for a rather interesting podcast episode. So here we go. Erin, if you wouldn't mind, start by just giving us a flavor for your background and experience and where this whole packaging adjacency thing comes from.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so my background is uh a little non-traditional. So I went to culinary school with the intentions of being in the uh events industry and catering industry. Um, I did get my start there. I was a catering banquet chef at Eagle Oaks Golf and Country Club in Farmingdale. Uh we did weddings and bot mitzvas and birthday parties, uh, got my taste of being in the back of the house. Uh, then I went to hospitality school where I wanted to further my passion for the events industry. And uh that's where I got introduced to high-end events and catering in Manhattan. There's really nothing like the events industry in Manhattan. It is quite intense. Innovation is on a whole other level, and uh I loved the thrill of the industry and uh was excited to get my foot in the door. I worked with a company called Riviera. And like everyone else in 2020, the events industry uh came to a halt. All of a sudden, all of our events for the calendar year got completely canceled. We had nothing on our uh schedule for the upcoming year. I was actually laid off for a few days, which was quite devastating because I was newly graduated from Furley Dickinson University, you know, eager, energetic. How old was I? 21-year-olds, making my mark in the industry. Then all of a sudden I was let go. So New York City reached out to Riviera because they were in a bit of a pickle. They were tasked with feeding all of the homebound uh senior citizens who couldn't leave their homes during the pandemic. And they remembered us from doing an event for them earlier that year. We donated something to the city for a function they were having. And they were looking for partners to help launch this get food program for the senior citizens so that they were not going hungry during the pandemic. So within 72 hours, I was brought back on board with Riviera and I had a new hat to wear. I had to help source packaging for this project. So I remember when I got the call, I had to go to the grocery store and start the RD process of finding ingredients, knowing the requirements that the city had in store, you know, how many, how much protein needed to be in each meal, how much grain, how much vegetables. And I had to play around with all packaging that was available in the grocery store to figure out what could work, right? We Riviera knew how to do high-end events and catering best. We didn't know how to do emergency meal preparation. Uh, so it was really just trial and error and figuring things out. So I was really thrown into the packaging side of things. We had to provide during the height of the pandemic, we were providing 72,000 meals a day for senior citizens. Uh, yeah, which was uh pretty crazy. So we had to figure out first how we were doing all of this. We had a commissary in Coney Island um that we converted, it was a ballroom, which we converted into a packaging room. Then we had to figure out the logistics of how we were going to store everything. So we brought in um these walk-in coolers and freezers and line the streets of Coney Island with these uh pieces of equipment, storing everything. And, you know, packaging was key because we had to optimize our space wisely, right? We were in the middle of Coney Island, we didn't have ample space around, so we really had to utilize our space wisely. So I had to take that into consideration with the packaging. What could fit in a shopping size bag, right? How many meals uh could fit in a shopping size bag properly and then get put on a rack and then stored in the coolers and then brought out of the coolers for delivery? So we had to plan everything from menu development to the time it got to the client's doorstep.

SPEAKER_02:

Now, how many how many people were involved in this whole process pumping out seven to two thousand meals a day?

SPEAKER_00:

We had about overall, I would say around a couple hundred employees all day. It was a 24 hour operation at first to just get up and running.

SPEAKER_02:

What divided into the shift work?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. So it was nice is most of these individuals who we hired were folks who were let go uh because of the pandemic. So whether it was restaurants that had to close down, people who worked at hotels who didn't have work anymore because you know, hotels weren't booking. Yeah, nobody was trying to bring them, yeah. So we were able to bring them on board and they were able to pay their bills and continue on with life. So that was nice to be able to support the local community in that regard, but it was a 24-hour operation at first. And what was intense was the packaging. First off, I didn't have any experience with packaging. I had my entire kitchen filled with all sorts of containers, snap lids, everything, trying to see what would work. And what really threw the wrench into things was that this was during the pandemic. So we had to take that into consideration when ordering these containers, we had to order tractor trailer loads at a time. And I had to monitor the quantity. Some days our quantity would boost without much notice, but I always had to make sure our par level stayed at a certain level because I would have to give ample notice to the vendor who is bringing in these containers for us. So some days, you know, it was it was great finding a good partner to work with on this. He would pick up my calls late at night, early in the morning, if there was an increase, if there was a jump in our numbers of folks who were who we were feeding, because we were feeding folks in all of the barrows. We were one of four uh food vendors at the time. So our numbers were changing drastically. During the height of the pandemic, we were feeding, we're providing over 650,000 meals a week.

SPEAKER_02:

Wow. That's it's amazing. It's really nice to hear about you know, local community uh banding together and the fact that you were able to pull part of at least part of your workforce from people who had been displaced because of the pandemic, I think only it it makes the story that much more heartwarming. So it's that's really great to hear. But 650,000 meals a week is just it's mind-boggling to think about.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and the one thing Riviera really had on our side was we we knew how to make really good food. Riviera has been a business in business for over 120 years. It's a family-owned business. So we knew how to make really good food, but we really needed to learn in real time. We were trial, it was trial and error every day, trying to figure it out, trying to surround ourselves with people who were in the industry who are familiar with the process of the logistics and everything. So that was my time during the pandemic. Um, Revere did stay down the line of emergency feeding operations. And so that's what I currently do right now. I work with Revere as a uh project manager. So I help oversee any new business that we get and I help launch it. Uh so for example, after the pandemic, uh we were hired to work at Fort Dix down in Linkhurst. And we were feeding the Afghan refugees who were coming coming in from Afghanistan and who were being housed at the base there. Um, so we were feeding about 12,000 Afghan refugees a day.

unknown:

Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

So, and it's it's funny thinking about that the line of work that I'm in full time, just thinking about, you know, where I started, right? I was in New York City in Manhattan working these amazing events, and the innovation was insane, and passing trays that were six feet long going through a party with you know extravagant orders and things. And then I go to, you know, wearing boots and jeans and being in the middle of a military base feeding Afghan refugees. Um, so I've been really missing that part of my life of the events industry. So I recently launched my own business on the side. I've taken a little step back from Revere full-time role, uh, so I can accommodate my side venture, which has meaning to me. Uh, Netta Rose events. It is named after my grandmother, so your aunt.

SPEAKER_02:

My great aunt has a meaning, has meaning to a lot of us.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. You know, we came from a family that, you know, family gatherings were everything. That was my earliest childhood memories was all of our family gatherings down at you know, Uncle Freddie's house for 4th of July, Memorial Day, Labor Day, the Christmas parties down in big grandma's basement.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh, so that's really where I develop my love for events was uh at that young age. And I've been missing that. I love the line of work I'm in. I love the humanitarian effort behind the work that I'm currently doing with Riviera, but I also really want to get back into the events industry. So Netta Rose is a day of event coordinating business where I come in and I help a host who has already planned their whole event. And I come in and I am the extra set of hands that that host can enjoy their event and can actually talk to their guests and not be running around trying to refill the buffet or make sure the decor is okay. So I will help them from start to finish. And so far it's been going really well.

SPEAKER_02:

So what if you don't mind me asking, what kind of events are you talking about? What kind of events have you done so far, at least?

SPEAKER_00:

So I've done weddings and engagement parties and pre-wedding gatherings at people's homes while they're getting ready for their wedding. I'll come in and I'll set up a spread of catered food that they might have ordered beforehand and I'll make sure their house is completely clean while they're off to the wedding and enjoying themselves. I have a partnership with a local events company who hired me for six events just within two months of 2025. So I completed those events and they also hired me for six events in 2026 as well. So and I'm their extra set of hands called an event producer. So I come in and I help produce the event for them, and it's all the day of work, that way I can still balance Riviera whenever I need during the week. And then I my line of work for Netta Rose is mainly the weekends.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay. So Netta Rose is off and running already. That's great.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. So so yeah, so Netta Rose is named after my grandmother. Um, she was, in my mind, one of the ultimate hosts, and Rose is after is named in honor of my grandfather, Papa Blueie, who had a gorgeous rose garden in his backyard, and it was just a symbolic, you know, way of honoring both of them together was Netta Rose.

SPEAKER_02:

That's beautiful.

SPEAKER_00:

It's been uh a fun journey. Again, looking back at it, I would have never thought I'd be where I am uh doing the things I did, but it's been a great journey so far.

SPEAKER_02:

So you you talked about how the pandemic kind of pushed and pulled you and your career into unexpected directions. And it's interesting because I've I've spoken to other people who have had similar experience. I mean, I mean, pretty much everybody had an experience to one extent or another due to the pandemic. But I've heard the phrase COVID pivot bandied about uh several times. And I thought it was kind of interesting that you know that parallel you know plays out with your story as well. Uh for my own story, it it wasn't uh pandemic, but it was uh the 9-11 attacks. I graduated college right after 9-11, and the market was tight. Um, you know, things were were unsettled for quite a while after that, and so it was a little unnerving coming out of college and trying to get a full-time job, which luckily, you know, studying packaging engineering uh especially at Rutgers, you know, we boasted 100% job placement upon graduation. So I was able to get a job, but the starting salary uh was not quite where I was hoping it would be, and I thought maybe that might have been something related to the you know the market and tighter wallets, etc. etc. Uh I ended up getting a part-time job bartending at a country club up in North Jersey, and and uh I enjoyed the I enjoyed the heck out of that. That was a lot of fun. Uh free golf uh every Monday, which was in the summertimes, which was nice. But um no, it's just it's interesting hearing your story about the your your COVID pivot experience, if you will.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and uh you know, Riviera as a whole, they had to look at it as, you know, it's either we close our doors and you know our staff have to go on unemployment, or we can figure it out. And that was really, we yes, we call it the COVID pivot in our company as well. We pivoted in order to stay in business, in order to keep the lights on and just keep things moving.

SPEAKER_02:

No, I get it. So I I I did want to ask you just from your experiences, uh, specifically about the packaging that you were leveraging to provide these these meals. What would you say are some of the the more important criteria? Like what was it, what were you looking for? You know, you said you know, uh you had your kitchen full of packaging components and trial and error and whatnot. So what what what different things did you try? What things did you discover early on that you liked, that you needed, what were some of the features that really kind of helped you get to the point where you said, you know what, this is this is the end all be all, this is what we're gonna use moving forward.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so starting off, um, we knew as a company we could not get in something called a tray sealing machine. So that's what the tray sealing machine is typically what you see in the frozen food aisle, right? Like those prepared meals where it has that film on top of it. Those machines are extremely costly. So we needed a solution that we could get our hands on immediately, and that was um unitized trays with the snap lid. So first I knew that that was the route we had to go down was the unitized tray, which we might some people might have it in their homes, you know, what you store leftovers in, and you just popped the lid right on.

SPEAKER_01:

Yep.

SPEAKER_00:

And so I went into the grocery store, I knew the requirements of the protein, uh, vegetable, and green. So they all had to be a certain amount of ounces. So it was really, you know, the challenge was finding a package that a container that didn't make the meal look too small, right? So it had to have uh the proper compartments. So if I put the piece of chicken in one compartment, I wanted it to be full. I wanted it to look full. I didn't want it to look like it was minuscule or the grain. Um, so that had to be planned properly, right? When I when a client is receiving their meal, you want it to look as full as possible. You don't want it to look skimpy, but you also need to make sure you're meeting the daily requirements that the city had in place for us.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So that was difficult. Uh just trying to narrow down. There's so many different types of to-go containers. We mainly stuck with one compartment or two compartment trays. Three compartments were harder to source during the pandemic. So we mainly stuck with let's say the one compartment would be a bed of rice with chili and cheese on top of it. So that would be a one compartment tray. That's what I was doing in my Kitchen was we needed to have a starting point. We needed to be able to start from somewhere so we knew how to order. Over time, so present day, we are not doing stat blitz anymore. We have a tray sealing machine that is what you would see in a food production facility. Um, because we have completely transformed the ballroom into a true uh production facility with two packaging trays, uh machines, I should say. And you place the tray inside, so the empty tray, they have um custom vessels for you to put the tray in, you scoop your food into it, and it moves like a conveyor, it's a conveyor belt, and then it gets heat sealed with a film.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

Now that's tricky because you need to make sure that that film is tight on there because if that film comes off, that food needs to get discarded. But you also need to make sure that your clients can take off the film with ease and aren't stabbing at the film trying to get it off.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So that's a happy medium of trying to figure that out. When we first got the sealing machines in the film was not adhering well to the container uh that we were utilizing. So we had to keep playing around with it just to figure out that balance because that sometimes it was getting too tight, and that's not great for especially the older adult community trying to get those off. But we found that balance. And again, we that's how the food is preserved. If if the film is not right, it leads to quicker spoilage in the refrigerator. Okay. Uh if moisture is let in. Um, so there's the tray itself is so important to what we do. If it cracks on the side, you have to throw it out. So you need to make sure it's in a sturdy tray. Um, New York City has standards. Um, we work with New York City, we're working with New Jersey, we're working in Massachusetts as well, and they all have their own standards, but it needs to be a compostable tray.

unknown:

Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh needs to be able to go into a refrigerator, a freezer, a microwave, an oven. So it needs to be able to withstand all of the different environments and still be intact. So that was also another R and D situation where we had different trays of different thicknesses that we were putting into the oven. Because sometimes if the tray is too thin, it will start actually collapsing inwards when heating up in the oven. So we had to make sure that whatever product we were utilizing, first it had to, you know, be cost efficient, but also be able to withstand the high temperatures of the oven.

SPEAKER_02:

So what what kind of shelf life were you looking to get? I mean, how how long would you typically expect the meal to stay fresh once it was sealed before it got to the client? Because it doesn't sound like this is something you're making and storing for weeks or months on end. You're it's almost like a just-in-time manufacturing operation.

SPEAKER_00:

Correct. So our operation does not use there's certain packaging mechanisms that will pump gas into the tray to preserve its shelf life. A lot of companies, if you go to the grocery store and if you see salad on the shelf with the film on top of it, most likely there is gas pumped into it to preserve the freshness. It's not, it doesn't necessarily mean that there's preservatives in that salad. It is the that map mechanism. It's um a modified atmosphere packaging, that's what they call it. A revier does not have that. So our meals are made and then typically shipped out the next day. And then it's just a normal shelf life as you would if you were serving leftovers in your refrigerator.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay. We use the same kind of process, you know, in in pharmaceutical manufacturing, we use the same kind of process where we will evacuate the headspace of a of a vial with uh an inert gas like a nitrogen or an argon, and that will help extend the the shelf stability of the product because you're you're eliminating you know ambient air, you know, while it's fine for us to breathe, it isn't always exactly the most friendly when it comes to the longevity and and efficacy of your product. So so same same concept, just different, or I should say even same application, but to a different scale as well.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And also it the packaging, it's the integrity of the product. Some products might do great in the three-compartment packaging with the film. Some others aren't great, especially when it goes in the freezer and then it has to be preheated again. So we've done so much testing. I've been a part of those teams where we create menus and we test and we test and we test because we want to make sure how that that meal is consumed with how it should be consumed, right? We didn't want the integrity of the meal to be any anything less than, no matter who was warming it up, how they were warming it up. Uh, we wanted to make sure that it the quality um still was at a high level. And it really all had to do with the packaging.

SPEAKER_02:

So it's not a question of if, but a question of when the next, let's call it, crisis hits. God willing, it's not a never another pandemic, but a pandemic level event or a major hurricane comes up and hits the tri-state area, or wildfire. I mean, you you name it, some type of natural disaster. Before we get to that point, what would you say as an as a mass end user of packaging, what can the packaging industry do to be more prepared for that type of scenario?

SPEAKER_00:

Gosh, yeah, it's difficult because I understand warehouses and packaging facilities, they don't want to have an excess of inventory to keep on hand if it's not moving, but you do need to have an emergency supply. For our contracts that we have, we um are obligated to keep an emergency supply on hand just in case of any sort of disaster that might hit. Um, our clients need to be insured that we would be able to execute the project. So, because of that, we keep a certain amount of inventory on hand at all times in anticipation of something happening, even though obviously we we hope nothing happens, but we need to be prepared and we keep close communication with our vendors as well to know what levels we need available in case a disaster happens. It's difficult. Um, we left out with the vendor that we got in touch with during the pandemic. I think he was maybe number five on my list. The rest of the vendors just said that they could not complete the orders, they could not get us the quantities that we needed. They they lost a lot of their team because of the pandemic. So they were not able to fulfill our orders uh in the demand that we needed. So I would just make sure it's so difficult, you know. And again, it's expensive to keep inventory on hand if you're not utilizing it, if it's not moving, and folks don't want to keep a warehouse full of inventory on hand if it's not being utilized. But at the end of the day, if you want to be that company that people go to, you want to be that hero during uh a trying time of being that go-to person. Uh so just keeping that in mind, even though, like you said, you know, hopefully we don't have to think about that for a while, but just being as prepared as possible and knowing that you could be that person who could supply uh to keep things moving.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, one of the things that in general I think the packaging industry faces and and any industry for that matter that starts talking sustainability, and and you mentioned New York City has mandates for the packaging, the tray to be compostable. So compostable means it it reacts quickly and easily with the outside environment, right, in a compost heap with microorganisms at play, with ambient air, etc. etc. Which means you you can't sit on, as a manufacturer of that tray, you can't sit on that tray for months, if not years, before you even put it out there into the market, uh, unless you have a controlled storage environment, which means now your inventory is costing you that much more. So there is a balancing act, obviously, that the manufacturing and specifically packaging industry has to uh has to play where you you you walk a fine line between you know how how green do you want it to be? You know, are you paying sustainability lip service or are you really you know putting some some muscle behind that hustle or hustle behind that muscle? I can never remember that that uh euphemism accurately. Uh I'll look it up after the episode. But that it is a challenge where you know you want to have something that's going to be a robust packaging material out there in the in in the market, but you also want it to be biodegradable. And so how do you how do you balance the two? And and I mean that's for somebody a heck of a lot smarter than me to to figure out. I know that there's a lot of technologies out there uh and and companies operating in the uh green materials uh biomimicry space, which by the way, I'm actually looking for uh uh someone to to come on the on the show as a biomimicry expert to talk about packaging. So if anybody out there is listening and and you think uh you have a suggestion, please let me know. I'd I'd appreciate that. But yeah, it it's interesting you touched upon that because that that is a an underlying theme that I see play out in a lot of scenarios within the packaging industry.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and when what's a little different is when an emergency hits, sometimes those standards are put to the side just because they need to make sure, especially when feeding folks, they need to make sure people are getting meals. And if there are limited vendors with the sustainable packaging, they're whoever hires us in an emergency situation, they're just gonna want to want folks fed. And uh sometimes they might bend the rules a little bit, you know, just to make sure you know the needs being met. But overall, we have to keep that standard uh on a daily basis is this sustainable packaging. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, if you ever come into a scenario where uh you know you're looking to source any type of packaging equipment, I I know uh a consultant in the industry that would would be more than willing to lend some assistance.

SPEAKER_00:

Perfect. Perfect. I mean, as we're growing, uh right now Riviera is involved in emergency feeding operations. We're also involved in the older adults' home-delivered meals industry, and we're growing pretty rapidly. So I'll keep you on standby.

SPEAKER_02:

It's a nice problem to have.

SPEAKER_00:

It is. It is indeed.

SPEAKER_02:

So gonna take a quick pivot here, uh, going through your responses, your your lengthy responses to the questionnaire. Uh, you're definitely you are definitely number one by a wide margin on the length of responses. So I appreciate your diligence and and detail. Uh, but you mentioned pickleball, uh, and it seems like that is a new passion of yours. Uh uh, that is a sport I have never played. I don't even know if I've watched it. We should have been played. So just just where did that come from? How did that happen?

SPEAKER_00:

All right. So when I was in high school, I think I was a senior in high school, I remember my gym teacher saying, All right, everyone, we're gonna learn about a new sport that is up and coming called pickleball. What the heck is pickleball? And she explained it. You know, it's a mixture between ping pong, badminton, and tennis. All merged together. Okay, and as soon as I started playing in high school, I was hooked. I I loved it. But then, you know, I went off to college and you know, kind of forgot about pickleball a little bit and wasn't really a big thing on the east coast yet, but it was something that was introduced in that gym class. And then within the past two years, yeah, I think two years ago, I became a member at uh a club here in town, and they have pickleball courts. And I decided, yeah, why not? Let's let's chine it again. Let's see if I remember how to play from when I was in high school, and I remember enjoying it. And I was pretty faithful with getting out there on the pickleball court every week just after work. It was a fun thing to do, it's decompressed a little bit, and then I started uh signing up for local tournaments, and that was a lot of fun. So I played in Mohammed County, I played in Princeton, and then I a tournament came across my desk, and it was a New Jersey State qualifier pickleball tournament.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, so we're getting serious now.

SPEAKER_00:

Why not? You know, and I try to do one year-defining thing uh every year. So I figured this could be my year-defining adventure. So I played in the New Jersey State Open with a pickleball partner of mine, Marie. We ended up meddling. We came in third place.

SPEAKER_02:

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00:

And that got us a ticket to play in Dallas, Texas, for the Professional Pickleball Association World Championship.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay. And has this happened yet?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. Okay. So it just happened uh the first week of November. You know, Marie and I, we did not have to go. It was just, you know, you got in and it's up, it's you don't have to go, but you have the spot. So I talked with Maureen, and we were an immediate yes. Let's just do it. Why not? We ended up going. We uh played a team from South Korea, a team from Massachusetts, California, and then another team from Texas. We played from people from all over. We ended up coming in fourth place in the world. Well, I mean, technically, because of how the tournament is called, yes, it's a world tournament, so it was open to uh players from all around the world, but in our division, we came in fourth. And pickleball is separated uh based on level, there's different ratings.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh so in our rating, we came in fourth.

SPEAKER_02:

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_00:

And it was a lot of fun. And I every time I look back at it, I just smile and I know that if I didn't do it, I would have regretted it 100%. And it just showed me, you know, if you're interested and just doing something, do it.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Why not?

SPEAKER_02:

Here I am with a podcast recording season two episodes. And I guess that was my 2025 thing of the year, was uh was starting this podcast.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so they they call that. I'm a huge follower of Jesse Itzler. I don't know if you know Jesse Itzler. I do not. Uh he's a motivational speaker, business owner, and he calls it a misoji. It's a Japanese ritual of doing a year defining. It could be something hard, it could be opening up a business, just something that uh really stands out in the year. And so I would say my misoji for 2025 was the spickable adventure. And going outside of my my comfort zone uh and pushing myself to that to that max. I trained for it, you know, weekly training sessions and really took it serious. And I, you know, I wish I came home with a medal, but I'm pretty content with with where we landed for the most part.

SPEAKER_02:

Listen, the the fact that you can say that you came in fourth in your division in in the world's competition, that's you don't need a medal. You you know, you you have that accomplishment. Nobody can take that away from you. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's it's uh thank you. Yeah, it was it was a good time.

SPEAKER_02:

I took up racquetball in college. Um and and and you're gonna laugh when I say this, but I started playing racquetball because of the movie Big. You remember that scene where they're they're playing it was out it was outdoor racquetball, but uh they had racquetball courts at the Sunday Worblin rec center on Bush Campus Rutgers. And my sophomore year, I lived in Silver's apartments, which at the time were that was the creme de la creme of at least in my opinion, the place to stay uh on Bush Campus, and it was walking distance to the gym. And so uh in between classes I would go and I would play racquetball all the time and I loved it. But then when I graduated, I just completely lost touch. I think it's probably been since I was in college that I played racquetball. And uh, you know, now that I think about it, I would love to go play again. I don't even I don't even know where there are courts. I'd have to go online and look it up.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I mean, racquetball, I see racquetball popping up again. Pickleball is now considered one of the fastest growing sports in the world. It is growing rapidly. And I mean, I I love tennis. I I appreciate the sport. Uh, but now you're seeing tennis courts being converted over to pickleball courts just to Try to handle the demand that is uh coming.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, and uh it's fun. Based on my very, very limited under understanding, pickleball takes up less space than tennis. So you can probably get what two or three or four pickleball courts for every one tennis court.

SPEAKER_00:

Correct, yeah. It's it's a smaller version of tennis. So you can you can definitely take up more space with with uh with the pickleball courts, utilize and optimize the space.

SPEAKER_02:

Very cool. So there was something else in your and I just I have to make this reference because it's exactly where my head goes, but one of the other comments you made uh in your questionnaire responses was you made a reference to the New York City Wine and Food Festival. And as soon as I read that, my mind went right to Catalina wine mixer, which is from the movie Step Brothers. And I I could not stop laughing because it just, well, there's an expletive in there, but I'm not gonna I'm not gonna share that in the episode. But it was just kind of funny. So if you wouldn't mind, just a quick story, uh New York City Wine and Food Festival, what's it all about?

SPEAKER_00:

So the New York City Wine and Food Festival, I've been volunteering at the New York City Wine and Food Festival since I was, let's see, a freshman in college. So quite a few years now. Food Network hosted, it's all sorts of events throughout Manhattan. And Food Network celebrity chefs host these events, and it's tickets that are available uh to the public, so the public can purchase tickets to go to these events. So typically they're themed, so it might be a tacos and tequila night, or it could be a private dinner with a famous chef who's cooking you dinner with you know in an intimate environment of maybe 30 other guests with you. Uh, it could be a fun baking class, it could be a Halloween-themed event. Uh, so the Food Network does a phenomenal job putting this event on, and they choose a charity partner. So when I volunteered, it was the New York City food bank that would uh receive proceeds from the event. Okay, and then most recently they had um God's love we deliver as the recipient of the proceeds. Uh so it's I would help with in the kitchen, I would help the chefs with preparing uh the food that they're serving for the events, and then eventually I transitioned to the front of house where I assisted with the production of the event. So it typically is a four-day event weekend. They have a burger cooking contest with all sorts of restaurants in the area. They have all sorts of events. It's it's very, very cool.

SPEAKER_02:

And what time of year?

SPEAKER_00:

Typically the fall. They changed up the event this year. Uh, unfortunately, they did not have volunteers at this year's event. Uh, they were changing the scope a little bit. Uh, so maybe they'll bring back volunteers next year. Uh I I typically like the Mediterranean brunch. That's a fun one. And what they do is they bring in local restaurants to have tables and pass out samples and drinks, and it's just a great time and everyone coming together for a good cause all throughout New York. They go all out.

SPEAKER_02:

That sounds like fun.

SPEAKER_00:

It is a lot of fun, especially if you're foodie. It's a it's a good time. You can event hop and go to all sorts of events.

SPEAKER_02:

I might have check that out for next year.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Add that to the list of things to do.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, definitely check it out. I I was fortunate enough. It's it's fun. I did a Broadway themed event the first year, and I happened to meet Neil Patrick Harris that year.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

So you never know who you're gonna meet.

SPEAKER_02:

Very cool. Now, earlier on in season one, based on a recommendation from a friend, I had started introducing a random a random fact about packaging or something, something interesting, just a random deal. And uh, I understand you actually have something that you wanted to share.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. Well, it's something food and packaging related. I know I love pizza. And when you order pizza, the reason why, do you know the reason why there are holes in the pizza box?

SPEAKER_02:

Why there are holes in the pizza box?

SPEAKER_00:

Correct.

SPEAKER_02:

I never really thought about it, but I would assume it's to vent some of the steam out.

SPEAKER_00:

Correct. So it vents the steam out, and it does that to keep the pizza as crispy as possible. Because if the steam is trapped inside the box, people will be having soggy pizza.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So in addition to the pizza box having holes in it to let the steam out to preserve the freshness and the crispiness of the pizza, uh, that's also the case when you go down the bread aisle and you're getting a loaf of bread, you might notice some little holes in your bag of bread. So that's not to keep it crispy, that's to make sure that any moisture is getting released from the bag. Because if the moisture is trapped within the bag, you're gonna your bread's gonna spoil quicker. Um, so it's interesting to take a peek the next time you order something or you go to the grocery store, take a peek to see what, if there are little holes or anything like that, you know, to see how they're preserving the freshness and keeping the integrity of the product.

SPEAKER_02:

That's interesting. Uh what one more thing for me to look at when I go to the grocery store. As if it doesn't take me four hours already.

SPEAKER_00:

A fun little tidbit.

SPEAKER_02:

No, thank you. I appreciate you sharing that.

SPEAKER_00:

Of course.

SPEAKER_02:

So we are about up on time, but wanted to ask if there are any philanthropic organizations you would like to give a quick shout-out to before we wrap things up.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh man, I love the JBJ Soul Kitchen. They are very special to me. John Bon Jovi's wife, Dorothea, does incredible work. It is a community kitchen. Uh, they have a few different kitchens now, but the one closest to me is in Red Bank, the Soul Kitchen.

SPEAKER_01:

Yep.

SPEAKER_00:

You can dine there as a regular paying guest, and you get a beautiful multi-course meal, and then you can pay it forward. So your tip can help pay for someone else who might dine there who cannot pay for their meal. And that guest who goes there who cannot pay for their meal, they can work, they can volunteer uh instead of paying for their meal.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

And they're still treated to, you know, the beautiful multi-course meal as well. There's nothing different. You wouldn't know who you're dining around, whether it's someone who's paying or non-paying. And it's a really beautiful initiative, and it's great to help build the local community because if you have a warm, hearty meal, they say that that's just the start, right? You can you're able to think better, you're able to carry on with your day a bit differently if you're if you have a full stomach and if you're hydrated. And so this is that initial step to help people get on a uh a better path for their life. And they also help with finding folks, um housing if they need housing, any medical assistance. They're just a great organization for our local community, and I'm proud to have volunteered with them and just love the work they're doing.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I um I'm familiar with with JBJ Soul Kitchen. I've never dined there, but spent a fair amount of time in Red Bank and walked past that place probably a dozen times. Matter of fact, I shouldn't admit this too loudly, but whenever we go to um you count Basie Theater, I like to park down by JBJ Soul Kitchen uh because the parking is free over there. And then I just walk the five blocks or so because I'm I'm too cheap to pay the three dollars for parking and fight the traffic. But one of these days I'll get there for dinner.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, definitely. Go you're you're gonna get a delicious meal. I went to culinary school with the executive chef. She's fantastic, and uh you're really you're gonna be blown away with the food, and you're also contributing to a great cause.

SPEAKER_02:

Sold. All right. Well, listen, this has been a lot of fun. I appreciate you coming on the show. Great to catch up and uh and and hear the backstory and the COVID pivot and hospitality management and you know, feeding, you know, the five boroughs and feeding Afghan refugees and and how packaging played a role. I think it's been uh it's been a really interesting conversation and and wish you the best of luck with Netta Rose. Uh if there's anything I can do to help, you know, feel free to reach out. But sounds like you're already off and running, so that's great to hear.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you. I appreciate you having me as a guest. It's been a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Yeah, this has been fun. All right, with that, uh, I guess it's time to sign off. So everyone, thanks so much for listening in, and uh we'll talk to you next episode. Take care.