You Can’t Think Your Way Into Feeling Better | Katharine Chestnut

What if one of the most powerful breathwork practices aren't a complicated technique, but simply remembering to pause?

In this episode of Breathwork Magic, Amanda Russo sits down with meditation teacher, mindfulness guide, and Insight Timer instructor Katharine Chestnut for a conversation about the everyday power of breathwork and how intentional breathing can help us navigate stress, pain, overwhelm, and life's unexpected challenges.

Katharine shares how breathwork became part of her own healing journey while recovering from an emotionally abusive marriage. What began as a simple practice to help her reconnect with herself eventually became one of the foundational tools that transformed her relationship with her body, emotions, and overall wellbeing. From using breathwork during chronic pain and recovery from hip replacement surgery to finding moments of calm in busy airports and stressful workdays, Katharine explains why breathwork has become an essential part of her daily life.

Together, Amanda and Katharine explore how breathwork helps us respond rather than react, why so many people wait until they're overwhelmed before turning to their breath, and how even a few intentional breaths can shift the state of the nervous system. They also discuss the connection between breathwork and mindfulness, the role of somatic healing, and why learning to feel safe in the body can be such an important part of the healing process.

Listeners will hear practical suggestions for incorporating breathwork into everyday life, discover why breathwork is about much more than relaxation, and learn how simple techniques like box breathing, 4-7-8 breathing, and longer exhales can create meaningful shifts in focus, energy, and emotional wellbeing.

Whether you're brand new to breathwork or looking for simple ways to deepen your practice, this conversation serves as a powerful reminder that healing doesn't always require hours of meditation or elaborate rituals.

Sometimes all it takes is one conscious breath.

As long as you have your breath, you have options. 💜

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Transcript

Welcome To Breathwork Magic

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to Breathwork Magic, the podcast that explores the life-changing power of your breath. Breathwork isn't just a practice, it's a gateway to healing, transformation, and shifting to a new mindset by letting go of the past and embracing the possibilities of the present moment. I'm Amanda Russo, your host, a certified Blackwood facilitator, level two reiki practitioner, and creative Amanda's Mindset Podcast. On my own journey, Blackbook has been a powerful tool for releasing what no longer serves me. And shifting my perspective to step into my fullest and greatest potential. Each week, I'm joined by inspiring guests, Blackbook facilitators, healers, and wellness enthusiasts who share how this practice has helped them and their clients heal, grow, and embrace lasting change. So take a deep breath. In and out. Settle in.

How Catherine Finds Breathwork

SPEAKER_01 2:14

And I am so excited to speak with her. Thank you for joining me.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

Thank you for having me. I'm really super glad to be here.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

Absolutely. So when did you discover the power of our breath?

SPEAKER_00 2:32

I don't think I thought about it distinctly until I started going through my own healing process about eight and a half years ago. And somewhere along I had started meditating, and somewhere along the line, I did a breath work meditation. And I was like, this is magical. Just I say that all the time. Breath work is magical. I absolutely adore it, and all of the different ways that you can do it. And when I started doing it, I wanted to do more. And all of that was actually the impetus that got me to become a meditation teacher. So and breath work is part of that.

SPEAKER_01 3:35

That's amazing. What type of breath work was it first you first did your first time?

SPEAKER_00 3:42

I think I revisited box breathing and the alternate nostril breathing, and then I started branching out a little bit and trying the 478 and other rhythmic kind of breath

First Techniques That Actually Stick

SPEAKER_00 4:02

work. In fact, I actually have my hippoplase last year because I've been living big my whole life. And when I was in pain, my go-to was the 478 breath. I just automatically went there when I was hurting. I don't know why, but it was just my go-to. Sometimes just taking a few minutes to breathe when I started going through my own healing from my emotionally abusive marriage. I would get triggered or something would come up and I would feel myself start to get wound up. And I would be, excuse me for just a moment. I would go to the ladies' room and I would just do some breathing, just do some deep breath. And sometimes I would throw in a body scan in there as well. And I only needed a few minutes and I could hold it together and go back to what I needed to do. And just breathing reconnected me with my body.

SPEAKER_01 5:40

And I'm always thinking of little tips and tricks of how they can get in more mindfulness. And a big one I always tell them, I'm not a mom myself, but is use in the bathroom. You can do some deep breaths, you can do the 478, you can do the box, but you can do it in the bathroom. As crazy as that may sound, like some of the months out there, it's it's very helpful.

SPEAKER_00 6:06

You know that anything, just an anything. I've been known to, and this was really easy during COVID. I remember being stuck in an airport and flight was delayed, and I had my mask on, right? Because we all did, and I just went and found a little corner behind a column or something like that, and I just closed my eyes and did some breathing. And I was out in the middle of a busy airport, but I took that moment, and that's what I tell people is find your moments because we have them all day, every day. And you know, you can't think your way into feeling better. Believe me, I've tried. We have to get connected to our body, and I will tell you, breath work was one of the first tools that helped me feel safe in my body again.

SPEAKER_01 7:17

Now I want to transition

Using 4-7-8 To Handle Pain

SPEAKER_01 7:19

back a tad. You mentioned you were using the four-seven eight breath for your pain. Did you know how it helped your pain?

SPEAKER_00 7:30

Well, it gave me something to focus on. Um in real simple terms, it gave me something to focus on that wasn't the pain that I was experiencing. And I would just go there and I would the counting really helped me. I needed that counting. So any kind of it could be any kind of rhythmic breathing, right? The box box breath, right, it involves counting or can involve counting. There's other rhythmic types of breath work, but the counting gave me something to focus on, and the breath gave me that what I was doing was visualizing sending the breath into the area that was hurting. And as I was doing it, I was saying, thank you for letting me know. Thank you for the message, I appreciate it, and well, it's gonna get taken care of, and it just helped to calm me down because when you're in a lot of pain, and at that point it was very chronic, it you can't seem to think of anything else except what's going on in your body, but the breath work and sending that loving energy to that part of my body as well, and saying thank you for the message took away some of the this hurts, and I don't like it from the moment.

SPEAKER_01 9:27

That's powerful, that makes a lot of sense. I love how you mentioned saying it, loving energy, you know. I think that's so important, whether it's pain or something we don't want, as opposed to like shame or just hating this or the negativity on it, you know, like a little bit of gratitude, a little bit of loving energy. Not saying you're glad to have it, but thank you for showing me, and as opposed to this negative mindset of this sucks.

SPEAKER_00 9:59

We can't change our thoughts. And to me, what I learned was healing wasn't about changing my thoughts or shaming them or wanting them to go away and pretending that they weren't happening and putting a big smile on my face. I had done that for far too long. The breath work allowed me to change my state and the state of my body. It didn't take away the pain, it just changed my perspective about it. And yeah, you hit the nail on the head when you were saying, like just giving ourselves that grace and thanking whatever the experience is, whether it's pain or anger or sadness, whatever it is, it's a message, it's our experience, and we need to accept it and acknowledge it. Doesn't mean I have to wallow in it, it just means okay, thank you. I'm getting the message now. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 11:09

Yes, I guess. I like how you put it like that. I'm getting the message, it's showing us, telling us something, essentially. Yeah,

Breathing Into The Body With Somatics

SPEAKER_01 11:18

have have you ever done like a deep diaphragmatic breath work?

SPEAKER_00 11:23

Yes, yes, just really I I love the whole experience because just getting in that moment, and actually, I have a somatic movement therapist that I work with, and I was working with her before I had my hip replacement, and I've been going to see her ever since, and breathing into that, and really we get really we get down in it, right down into it.

SPEAKER_01 12:00

I gotcha. No, the somatic movement therapist, you said, yes. So, what does that type of therapist help you with or do with you?

SPEAKER_00 12:12

So I'm sure I can't explain it as well as she would, but I guess it you know, I have gone to chiropractors in the past that use active release therapy, and so there's a little bit of what she's doing in that regard, but acknowledging parts of my body that I may not realize are in pain. And she'll say, Okay, what's just this past week? She said, So what's bothering you? And I'm like, Nothing's bothering me. She goes, All right, well, we'll check it out. And of course, she'll find something, and she'll go, Well, this area is really tight, let's work on that. And as she's working on it, I'm also breathing into that part of my body, and she's encouraging me to breathe into that part of my body, which sounds when you first hear that, when somebody says, Oh, breathe into that, breathe into your hip or whatever, you go, okay, I'm breathing into my lungs, I don't know what you're talking about, right? So, but once you start doing it and you're sending that that energy, that emotion to your part of your body, and you're breathing into it, and she's doing her thing at the same time, it's really it releases so much, it's releasing emotions, it's releasing tension that's being held in that part of the body. So that's probably the most regular work when you're talking about deep work, because there's always something in my body that needs attention every single week.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

No, I'm curious. What made you try breath work for the first time? Was there anything that called you to it?

SPEAKER_00 14:28

I don't know that there was I was trying anything and everything to heal, to get through the process of you know, recovering from the abuse. And I came across a breathwork meditation, and I've been using Insight Timer for eight years, eight and a half years, and I've been a teacher there for seven and a half years because I found so much benefit from it. And the other thing is when you're meditating, right? How many times you start with grounding, which is about the breath. You want to start with breath because it brings you into your body and into the moment. And you were talking about mindfulness, and I feel like breath work is one of the most powerful mindfulness practices that we can do because of that. It brings us into our bodies and into the moment.

SPEAKER_01 15:52

I agree, it really does. No, I'm curious what you would say breath of all has helped you with the most.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

Here's a great example. So I also own a uh a co-working business, and two weeks ago,

Responding Instead Of Reacting

SPEAKER_00 16:19

I live in Atlanta, Georgia, all the rain for the entire state of Georgia fell in my zip code in an hour, and the building flooded, and I you know, I'm standing there and I'm watching the water come pouring in, and I'm like, and I'm looking down, and we go, Well, I need a shop back and a mop. Eight years ago, I would have been freaking out. I still would have taken care of things, but I would have been like, ah, and it didn't occur to me until probably later that night or the next day. Uh, I thought to myself, well, that was different. It's the way that we react, and it's it comes from practicing breath work or mindfulness or meditation regularly. The little stuff, I always say it's you only need a minute or two or five to practice breath work and get grounded, but the more you do it, when those moments come and they're gonna come, they just do, where we respond instead of react is probably the best way I know how to put it. I responded to water coming into the building instead of reacting like I would have in the past.

SPEAKER_01 18:17

That makes so much sense. That makes so much sense. I noticed the same myself within my own life is like not being as worried about so many things, and even some of the things that could be seemed like a big thing in the instance, you know. I also facilitate sound healing. And I was hosting an event recently, breath work and a sound healing event, and I had hit a motor vehicle in the poking lot the right before I was supposed to do this session, like an hour before. And I was not really that well, I was kind of like, it is what it is. Here's my information. I've got somewhere to be. And we took some pictures and I went in and I facilitated my event an hour later. And a few people even said, How are you doing this? And I'm like, What do you mean? Breathe in, breathe out, let's go. I can't change the situation right now. I can't like I can't go back in time and not hit this car. So I'm like, even the woman I hit, she's like, You're very calm about this. And I'm like, I'm very sorry about your vehicle, but we can't change this. So I I agree with you completely. It's interesting, even myself. Say, like three years ago, I would have freaked out, even if it wasn't that type of event I was going. Like, I had somewhere to be that would have freaked me out a lot, and now I was just like, we can't change it, we just go forward, and it's cool to see like how breath work is embodied off the yoga mat.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

Right, and you know, it's interesting, a lot of people think that breath work is just when you want to relax or reduce stress, and I say, no, no, no, no, no, it's for so many other things. There's different breath practices to improve your focus, there's different breath

Breathwork Is Not Just Relaxation

SPEAKER_00 20:21

practices to release energy or improve your energy. In fact, I do a live breath work session every Sunday morning on Insight Timer, and every week we do a different practice. And this last week we did the lion's roar breath, and that is for you know, it's good for a lot of things, it's for releasing anger, it's also for taking back your power, so feeling powerful again. I like to do it in the mornings when I have a big day ahead of me, and I want to feel confident throughout the day and make sure that I'm feeling my own power. Um, but there's just so many. It's not just for relaxing or reducing stress, it's for so many other things. And I think that is one of the biggest misconceptions about breath work.

SPEAKER_01 21:38

I am so I'm so glad you said that. That's so true. Like even so many first timers that come to me, it's when life is hard or life is falling apart or shit, something just happened, you know? And the maintenance of it is so key. It's how you handled the flood, it's how I didn't overreact to the accident because we're not just doing it. When something happens.

SPEAKER_00 22:02

That is such the biggest mistake that I think people make is that they wait until they're overwhelmed. And just like you were saying, it's that it's better when we're practicing regularly and not just doing it, you know, break glass in case of emergency, take a breath in case of emergency. It's so much easier to build that inner calm than it is to recover from a panic.

SPEAKER_01 22:42

It's true. It is so much easier to build the inner calm than it is to recover from the panic. That is so true. No, I'm curious while we're on this topic of it. Who you would say breathwork is for?

SPEAKER_00 22:58

Well, I would say it's for everybody. And I would say that I think we're all at some point not receiving the benefits of our breath because it is an automatic

Who Breathwork Is For

SPEAKER_00 23:19

physical experience. It happens when we're asleep. It's different though, because when we're doing breath work, it's very intentional and it gives us direct access to how we feel. Most people don't realize that they might not be taking full breaths, they might be kind of holding their breath or not experiencing their breath because they're feeling stressed all day long. And so you're just running from one thing to the next. And yes, our days are going to be busy, and some days are going to be busier than others. But like I said, find those gaps in your day and take a few deep breaths and connect because our breath will tell us the truth about the stress in our bodies before our mind figures out that oh, I'm stressed. Our bodies are feeling it long before that.

SPEAKER_01 24:32

I completely agree. I like how you mentioned even taking a few deep breaths. A lot of people often think whether it's breath work or meditation, it has to be this big, long process here on the yoga mat. If you're meditating, you're sitting cross-legged, eyes closed, like Buddha for an hour. And it's like it could be three to five minutes. It doesn't have to be this long, big, especially as you're first beginning it. I don't recommend doing an hour of breath work every day if you've never, if you've never meditated before, it's not gonna work. Right.

SPEAKER_00 25:08

You're gonna feel like like I did for years because I had tried to meditate in the past, and I had many of the same misconceptions that you were just talking about. And then I realized, oh, I can do a meditation that lasts three minutes and feel better, and I don't have to empty my mind. Our brains don't physically work that way. What I can do, though, is if my mind starts to wander, bring my attention back. That's the key, right there is coming back to the awareness of our breath. And sometimes it's not a deep breath, sometimes it's just breathing slower or exhaling longer than we're inhaling. It doesn't have to be, you know, but I mean, how many times have you heard somebody go, right? It's probably because they weren't breathing enough, and our bodies are like, oh hey, I need you to give me some more oxygen here for a moment.

SPEAKER_01 26:29

It's true, and I used to, when I was in corporate, see people do that so much because they're not actually breathing, they're holding their breath even though it doesn't look like it. Right.

SPEAKER_00 26:40

And you know, people that and I worked in corporate America for 30 years, and I was one of those, you know, Miss Corporate kick ass. And I spent, I like I tell people I spent decades living in my head and not in my body. And so people that are in those high stress, high-powered situations, or you know, let's just talk about being you were talking about moms earlier. That's stressful, right? You're solving, you're planning, you're anticipating, you're doing all of that, and breath work gives us a chance to interrupt that cycle of urgency, which gives us the opportunity to relax.

SPEAKER_01 27:34

I'd love to know what your breath work practice looks like these days. Is it something you do daily?

SPEAKER_00 27:43

I would say that I actually try to, and I say try because it's not it doesn't always happen that way, but when I finish a task, I very frequently

Making Breath A Daily Habit

SPEAKER_00 28:01

look around and go, okay, what am I supposed to do next? Right? What do I need to do next? And if I find myself in that place, which happens regularly, I I I go, oh, it's time for a breath. Because I need to connect with my body and get in this moment. And once I'm in the moment, then I will know what I need to do next. Um, I will practice whenever I standing in line at the grocery store. I might just be standing in line and counting in my head and doing so, you know, I might be doing box breathing as I'm standing there. I might be doing, oh, I won't be doing the lion's roar while I'm standing in the grocery grocery store. But I'll do something else, you know. Maybe it's just as simple as inhaling for four and exhaling for six. But it happens every day at multiple times a day. I gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 29:16

So not like a set-aside time that you are like doing breathwork or meditating. I'm just curious, honestly.

SPEAKER_00 29:24

I always do some kind of morning meditation. Sometimes it's a body scan before I even get out of bed. I and I always end the day with a sleep meditation, always, and I almost always wake up in the middle of the night between three and four to go to the bathroom. And I always come back to bed and I listen to another sleep meditation. So I because frequently I will have a hard time getting back to sleep because I'll be thinking, oh, I need to do this tomorrow and that tomorrow and that tomorrow and that tomorrow, right? And I want to, okay, it's still time for sleeping. So I'm meditating, meditating at least twice a day. But if we're including breath work, I would say six, seven, eight times a day. If I go for a walk, which I usually do, I listen to a walking meditation. So again, I'm in the moment and I'm in my environment and I'm appreciating my body in the environment.

SPEAKER_01 30:41

That's great. I loved your suggestion of doing it in the line at the grocery store. I think that if you if people listening to us, you get frustrated out and about somewhere. Like if you're in line, you're maybe you're in traffic, whatever, like doing it. Maybe you don't close your eyes if you're sitting in traffic, but like the same concept of you can still do you can still do the box breath.

SPEAKER_00 31:07

Or just like I said, do a little bit longer exhale than an inhale. That signals to the body's parasympathetic nervous system that you're safe. And so if you're feeling stressed because I gotta go pick up my daughter at school, and why is it taking so long? And yada, right? Okay, and there were times in my daughter is grown now, but I would take the opportunity to, as I'm sitting in the car waiting for her to come out of dance practice or choir or whatever, I wouldn't doom scroll, I would meditate or breathe or just do something simple while I again finding those little gaps in your day makes a huge difference.

SPEAKER_01 32:03

Do you have any breathing techniques you want to share with us? No, no pressure if you do.

SPEAKER_00 32:11

I would say keep it simple. Keep it simple for real. Again, a longer exhale than an inhale probably is it doesn't have to be a big right? It doesn't have to be that,

Simple Starter Plan And Favorite Tools

SPEAKER_00 32:30

but just a nice quiet breathing in and exhaling. And keeping it simple means that you'll do it more.

SPEAKER_01 32:45

That's true. If there's barrier to entry, it's less likely you're gonna do it the more difficult it is.

SPEAKER_00 32:53

Sure, there are plenty of different techniques. I love breath of fire because you know Kabbalah Bhati is great for getting you energized and ready to go do something and be focused. But if you're just starting out, keep it simple.

SPEAKER_01 33:22

I agree. No, I agree. That makes sense. Do you have a suggestion for somebody that would just begin meditating, doing breath work what to start with in terms of keeping it simple? Because that's what one do they begin with? How do they start doing it consistently post?

SPEAKER_00 33:44

Think about make a list as you're listening here. Make a list of where you had opportunities today. Where did you have those little gaps in time? Maybe it was when you went to the bathroom and you had a moment and you could take an extra breath, take a extra, you know, longer exhale than inhale. Inhale for four, exhale for six. Keep it simple. Maybe it's you're commuting, maybe you're on a train commuting, take a few minutes, and I like to use if I'm in a setting like that, like I was in the airport. If I'm in an airport and I'm waiting in the gatehouse to get on the plane, and there's a few minutes, I'll put on my noise canceling headset and I'll wait and I'll breathe. And okay, that's fine. I'm waiting. So, you know, maybe you've got 10 minutes from one meeting, one Zoom call to the next Zoom call because, right? It's how our days go. Take those 10 minutes, or take five minutes, or take three minutes. So just make a list of all the opportunities where you had potential gaps today and see how many there are, and then tell your give yourself a goal. All right, I'm gonna do that once tomorrow, or when I get up in the morning, I'm gonna do before I even get out of bed, I'm gonna do some breath practice. Or when I go to bed, I'm gonna do some breath practice. But just pick one time tomorrow to give yourself that gift.

SPEAKER_01 36:00

That's a great suggestion, Catherine. I really like the bringing to their awareness when they had an opportunity and then setting aside a specific time that they are gonna do it tomorrow. Right.

SPEAKER_00 36:15

Yes, and again, if you can't think of any times that happened today where you had those potential gaps, okay, fine. Then just set yourself the goal to do it in the morning or in the at night. That's true. Wow. Well, thank you so much, Catherine. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much for having me. I've been looking forward to this interview because I really love breath work, it's magical.

SPEAKER_01 36:47

I completely agree. Anything else you want to share with the listeners? No pressure whatsoever.

SPEAKER_00 36:54

I mean, I would love to have you join me one Sunday morning for a live breath practice. It's free on Insight Timer, and I do it every week.

SPEAKER_01 37:06

I definitely recommend Insight Timer as well in general. I've used it myself. There's a wide range of different times of meditations, different t-shirts, and a

Free Live Practice And Host Invitations

SPEAKER_01 37:18

great way to get into it. Having the little bit of guidance if you've never meditated or done any sort of intentional breathing before.

SPEAKER_00 37:28

And I know I needed that when I first started, for sure. Same here. Thank you so much again, Catherine.

SPEAKER_01 37:36

I really appreciate it. Thank you again. And thank you guys for tuning in to another episode of Breathwork Magic. Thank you for tuning in to Breathwork Magic. I hope today's episode inspires you to connect more deeply with your breath. It includes the transformation it can break. Remember, as long as you have your breath, you have options. You're not stuck. You can make a change. You can make a chance. It's a new beginning. It's every chance to let go of what's so you're craving a reset. I'd love to invite you to mindful mindset Mondays. Now helped on the last Monday of every month. It's a virtual pay what you can breakbook session designed to help you recharge and realize. You'll find all the info in the show notes. And if you're ready to go even deeper, you can always schedule a one-on-one breakbook session. What's coming up? And a more personal life. Thank you so much for you like the wall. Your support helps more people. Discover the magic of black books. And until next time, keep breathing. Keep different. And keep embracing the magic within side of you. I'm proud of you. I'm bleeding for you. And you've got it.