The Cost of Unexamined Ambition | James Young

What happens when God blesses your career more than you deserve — and you start believing you earned it? In this episode, Dr. Jeremy Dixon and Phil McMichael sit down with James Young, who spent 29 years at Tyson Foods climbing from a night shift plant manager to Group Vice President of International, overseeing operations across five continents. James gets brutally honest about the demotion that became his greatest stepping stone, the pride that nearly cost him everything, and what God had to strip away before he found real peace. This isn't a theory or a framework. It's a life. And it might be exactly what you need to hear today. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

The more my career grew and the more God blessed my career, the more I started trying to take that credit. And guys, you know, it's crazy for a person to do that because God doesn't like credit takers. You know, God will bless you only so long before He will bring it crumbling down around you. And uh I was mightily blessed, and I'm not that smart, really. I I'm really not, I'm not that special, but God gave me a beautiful career and only to pat myself on the back and tell everybody, look how good I am.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

Welcome to the Rise Leadership Podcast, where we're equipping and inspiring the Crosschurch leader. Whether you're a dream team volunteer, a seminary resident, or a staff member at Crosschurch, this podcast is designed to help you grow spiritually, lead with confidence, and make a Christ-centered impact in every area of your life. Each episode aims to guide you to rise in your calling and empower those around you. And now, here's today's episode.

SPEAKER_03 1:02

Welcome back to the Rise Leadership Podcast. I'm your host, Jeremy Dixon. I'm joined by my co-host, Phil Poderoso McMichael. I don't know what word you what did you say? All of our Espanol listeners that go through. Oh, I got you. Poderoso. This is Mighty. Oh, Mighty. The Mighty McMichael.

SPEAKER_04 1:19

Okay. I how do you like that? How's that set with you today? It's not bad. Would you teach that to my kids? Yeah. I think that's how I want them to refer to me as now on. Poderoso. I like it. All right. Um, Cross Church listening audience and cross church family, rise listening audience. We are so thankful that you are here with us today. It's good to be here. Jeremy, it's great to see you see you here today. Our guest today is someone that I have so much respect for, someone who is a good friend of mine and someone who I think uh his story is going to hit people right where they live.

SPEAKER_03 1:51

That's right. Today we have James Young with us on the podcast. He spent 29 years at Tyson Foods and its subsidiary, Cobb Vendress. It's one of the largest food companies in the whole world. I can't wait to talk a little bit about that. Um he didn't just work there, he really climbed all the way to group vice president of international, uh leading operations across five continents. Pretty impressive, pretty crazy there, managing thousands of employees and running some truly impressive businesses. And he graduated from none other than the illustrious Washita Baptist University. Here we go. Come on now. 1988 joined Tyson straight out of college, gave nearly three decades to building something significant for the business world. And since retiring in 2016, he founded Leadership for Life. And James has done a lot of thinking about what leadership costs, uh, what life is actually for, and what he'd tell his younger self if he could. He's a husband to Tammy, father of two, grandfather of five, a longtime member right here at Cross Church in Northwest Arkansas. James, glad to have you on the podcast today.

SPEAKER_02 2:52

Well, thanks, guys. It's great to be here, especially joining a fellow Washita graduate.

SPEAKER_04 2:57

So uh Potteroso Washita graduate, apparently.

SPEAKER_02 3:02

Yeah. So good to be here. Thank y'all.

SPEAKER_04 3:04

Yeah, that's great. James, it is so good to see you. Listen, we're gonna jump into leadership in just a moment, but I know that at the beginning of your of your tenure there at Tyson, you spent a little bit of time with Mr. Don Tyson, who was the owner, um legend legendary owner, and built much of uh what Tyson Foods is, uh what we know it as today. So here's my question for you. It's a hot seat question because we start with a hot seat every week. Do you have any any memorable stories about Mr. Don from your early time working with him that you could share with us?

SPEAKER_02 3:38

Uh yeah, I have one that that I'm really fond of. It it goes all the way back to like 1994. I was uh a very, very young plant manager in North Little Rock, and uh we were working one Saturday, and I hear this banging on the office door, and uh look down the hallway and did a double take, and Don Tyson was standing at the door, decked out in his khakis, you know, with his shirt on with said Don across his chest, and I'm like, oh my gosh, what did I do? And am I about to get fired?

SPEAKER_01 4:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:14

Uh so I, of course, ran down the hall and unlocked the door. And before I could get the door open, his, you know, he very heartily said, Hey, how you doing, James? Why don't you uh show me my plant? And uh he just stopped by, he was in Little Rock and he wanted to tour. So we took a tour of the plant, and it was really great. And he was uh an amazing leader as a as just a man. He toured the plant and spoke to everybody in the plant and and just amazing the way he interacted with people, and that was a great learning lesson for me. Uh the top boss of the whole company, but he took time to shake hands with literally everybody in the plant and cared about them and spoke to them like they really mattered, and and I learned something from him that day. But but the interesting part of that day was we were in the conference room after the tour, and I couldn't help myself because I grew up in Dallas and I'm a giant Cowboys fan. And so I took a chance and I said, Don, is it true that that you own a box at Texas Stadium where the Cowboys play? And he said, Is it true? I own the one right on top of Jerry's. And I said, You have got to be kidding me. I said, Man, I grew up in Dallas, Don. I said, that is like the coolest thing. And come to find out, Don is a huge cowboy fan, and and we connected over the Dallas Cowboys, and and just the way he is, being who he is, that Monday after that Saturday, I got an envelope and a phone call with the expectation that I would be at the Cowboy game that next Sunday to join him in that box. Wow. And if you knew me back then, I didn't really have any money at all, much less enough to go see a game. And so that was the start of a of a commonality and a friendship that we had over the Dallas Cowboys. And uh every year he made sure I got to see a cowboy game with him or in the Tyson box for I guess the rest of his life.

SPEAKER_03 6:26

Wow. I mean, so that's like about six years in, maybe, of you being there. And how did that moment just even change I'm sure it did your longevity at Tyson? Like tell you about that.

SPEAKER_02 6:39

Put me in the Tyson box one time, dude, and I'm I'm a lifer. There's no way I'm going anywhere else to work ever for the rest of my life.

SPEAKER_04 6:47

Wow. Yeah, I'm sold. It's a great l leadership lesson, I think. Um, because you know, you can't you can't give every person on your team uh the salary that you you may think they deserve, yeah, especially when you have a huge team like he has. You can't uh you would love to pay everybody a million bucks. Yeah. But and I know this is a huge blessing, but finding little blessings for people, uh things that they care about. I mean, it really just says a lot to knowing your team. Yeah. If you know your team and you know what they love, then you then it when you pay attention, you have a chance to bless people. And that little piece of your your culture with your staff can go a long way with toward them staying, even if and when they get other chances at other places that may seem a little greener.

SPEAKER_02 7:37

Absolutely. And and you know, every time I would see Don, and he didn't know me, you know, intimately or anything. I was just a little plant manager. But when I'd see him in the halls of the office, hey James, how them cowboys gonna do this year? He always mentioned the cowboys. That was kind of a little connection, yeah. But you know, I would have run through the wall for the guy because he cared enough about me to make that connection every time.

SPEAKER_03 8:04

Yeah. One thing we just me and my wife um were just talking about this, but for our kids, is you don't get to pick core memories for your kids. You know, it's like uh we just got back from Disney World actually for the first time we did that. And the thing that my four-year-old talks about the most is the swimming pool at at our hotel, you know, and you're like okay, you know, you don't get to pick core memories for your kids. And same way with you know being a CEO of a giant business and being the you know founder of this big business is I bet that day, walking through that plant, I bet that Mr. Don did not think about that this was gonna be a core memory for you to change how you worked in at Tyson for years to come. And it it is a very interesting um, you know, just leadership lesson to learn there of take every little moment captive, leave your people well, love them well, and you never know how that's gonna impact their whole life. Right on.

SPEAKER_04 8:58

Yeah. Right on. That's great. By the way, listening, y'all audience, if you live here in northwest Arkansas, next time you see Jeremy Dixon, ask him to show you the video of his children by the by the water stream at Disney where you can throw coins into.

SPEAKER_03 9:13

It is awesome. Yeah, James, my son um went to throw a coin into the little little thing at in Japan, Epcot, and overthrew it and fell into the water. And it's pretty epic. It'll be on America's funnest funniest videos one day. And he was great. And he was great. Yeah, he he thought it was funny. Um hey, take us back to 1988, all right, leaving you know one of the greatest uh colleges in America, the world probably. But going straight into Tyson Foods, what would you tell yourself going back in time now about that decision and how it impact your life?

SPEAKER_02 9:46

Well, that's interesting because I, you know, first of all, to be real candid, I I I don't know that I'd say a lot different. I I needed a job really, really bad, and it was really the only good opportunity I had. I uh I needed to go to work and I was interviewing, and I'll be honest with you, I didn't have a lot of opportunities. And I I remember getting a shot to go to Pine Bluff, Arkansas, and interview for a shot as a management trainee at Tyson Foods, and and bear in mind I I grew up in Dallas, went to Washtaw. I knew nothing about chicken business or agriculture or anything. And I went on this interview and and you know, shortly thereafter, they offered me a job and and I had nothing going but that offer. And I mean nothing. All I had scheduled in my life was a wedding three weeks later. And so I knew I needed to work, and I took it. So, you know, it wasn't, I'll be honest, at that point in life, there wasn't like I was planning, I didn't have a big scheme going on and a big uh strategy about a career. I just I just needed something to generate income. And and you know, I look back now and I really think maybe that was God's providence to give me an opportunity to be where I needed to be, because I didn't have any other options, and God probably knew I wasn't smart enough to make any decisions on my own, and he put me right where I needed to be. So I showed up on the night shift at Pine Bluff, Arkansas.

SPEAKER_03 11:15

So walk us through just what was it like then after maybe you know starting there, and then you kept seeing success and kept seeing success, and did that even change your mentality as you were growing in the business?

SPEAKER_02 11:28

You know, um I I candidly would say for for whatever reason, um I always had it in my mind that that that I was gonna be successful. Um I don't know why I say that, but it that wasn't a question like, oh, I'm gonna go to work and work on the back dock of a chicken plant forever. That was never the plan. It was never a thought that that was the end game. So for me it was good. I mean, I showed up and it was like, okay, this is kind of a not ideally glamorous job, but that's cool. It's only a stepping stone, and that was in my mind from day one. Um, what I did know for sure is that if you learn the business well and learn how to take care of people and manage well, you'll have opportunity. Um, the second thing I learned early on is do whatever you're asked to do and do it well, and you will have opportunities. And I saw a lot of people that said, you know, hey, I want to do this or I want to do that. Oh, but I don't want to work night shift. I was like, yeah, put me on night shift. I'll go to night shift. So I did every job they ever asked me to do, anytime they ever asked me to do it, and it provided a lot of really good opportunities for me.

SPEAKER_04 12:50

I think that probably gained you a lot of favor with leadership over you. That's right. Can you also look back and see how it prepared you to lead um at in a higher level and talk about that?

SPEAKER_02 13:03

So, so I I think there's two things in that. It did it did in endear me with some people that I worked for. Early on, um, there was a couple of guys who I worked for that I really said yes to a lot, I guess you'd say. Okay, you want me to run sanitation shift because we're having a hard time getting the plant running in the morning. Okay, I'll work the night shift, and guess what? We got the plant running on time. Well, you know, that fixed the problem. So, and and these guys became my mentors. And so I worked for these guys through the years a lot. He would get promoted to another place and I would move to another place. Yeah, you know, and so I would say that was a big part of growing your career is having key mentors that help you grow. And now, if your mentor is not very successful, there's a good chance you're not gonna be very successful. So I would say choose your mentors wisely, right?

SPEAKER_03 14:03

Now, obviously, when you started, you said you were weeks away from getting married, three weeks. Uh three weeks away from getting married. So you weren't married. So you even your life changed a lot in 29 years in one place. So from being a single guy about to get married to getting married to having kids. Um talk about how your family kind of wove uh part of your whole journey there in your career.

SPEAKER_02 14:26

You know, my family grew up with me through my career. I mean, that's all my family ever knew. Dad was Tyson, Tyson was dad. Um, I was very fortunate at times to have good jobs at the right time where I had more time with my kids, and I want to explain that. You know, I I spent a season of time at Cobb Vantress, which provided me a little bit more flexibility of schedule. That happened to be the time when my kids were in Little League. So I got to coach my son's Little League football. I was at Cobb for seven years during that time, and it provided me. Had I been running a chicken plant during those years, it never would have happened. So I was very fortunate in the way the seasons of life fell out. A lot of my harder seasons of plant management happened when my kids were either not born or very, very young. Unfortunately, my wife bore the brunt of that time.

SPEAKER_01 15:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:26

Now, I gotta tell you, I had a champion of a wife that was right there beside me and she understood where we were headed and the vision and the goal, and she she moved with me all over the place. We moved a bunch of times before our kids were six. But once our kids turned like six, five, six, we moved to Springdale and never moved again.

SPEAKER_04 15:49

James, I know that um, you know, looking in hindsight, we can we could trace your your progression and your consistent elevation and leadership at Tyson. You know, six years in, you were managing three processing plants.

SPEAKER_02 16:05

No, just one at six years in.

SPEAKER_04 16:08

Oh, one at six years in. Okay. Um and then later on, as Jeremy said earlier, you would you would raise up the ranks to be group VP over uh overseeing Tyson's Global Businesses. Um so there there was so much elevation, but in hindsight, can you point out areas and times in your life where you it wasn't evident to you that things were going your way? You may have thought, man, I don't I don't know if I'm gonna progress anymore. And then even can you connect God's favor on your life in those moments?

SPEAKER_02 16:41

Absolutely. And you know, I look back now as an old guy, and I wish I would have been wiser then than I am now. Uh specifically going all the way back to North Little Rock. This is a great story. I was running the night shift in Pine Bluff, Arkansas. I was the night shift manager in Pine Bluff, and I'd been stuck on night shift for a while, and it was wearing on me because you know, I go to work at nine at night, I get off at nine or ten in the morning, 12, 13, 14 hour days was the standard to do your job good. You know, there was no such thing as an eight-hour day. Yeah. Um, so you know, my kids were young. I'd I'd go home and then I'd sleep all day, and then my wife would wake me up at 6 at PM and I'd, you know, see everybody for a couple hours, and then I was off to work again. And it was, it was that was a really tough season. Um and so I had an opportunity to interview for a day shift manager's job at Jefferson Parkway in Pine Bluff. And I did interview, and I I thought at the time that I was clearly the best qualified for the job. I I and I don't say that like I, but I mean it I just felt like, hey, that that job's mine. I mean, I've done, I'm a night shift manager, and I did the interview, and dude, I didn't get the job. I just got passed right over. And I was so angry. I remember getting one of the divisional VPs came down and I took him in the office and honestly gave him the what for up and down, you know, and I've burned and I've done and I've blah, blah, blah, you know, and I gave him the the serious what for. And he took it and and, you know, and I'm still on the night shift. And it was about three months to the day that I was promoted, not to a shift manager's job, but to the plant manager of North Little Rock. And I look back and I think, you know, God, if you would have allowed me to take that job, I never would have been in contention to be uh the youngest plant manager in the company at the time. And thank God they passed me over. And they probably passed me over because they had their sights on a better deal deal for me. Yeah. And you just didn't know. And I and I'm, but I was so, I was so selfish, so stupid, so impatient, and so angry. Oh, dude, I was mad. And I I really regret my reactions to that. You know, if I could be, if I could be young again, and if I could have said what I know now and said, you know, God's in control, right, and this is gonna be for my good. But no, dude, I was mad.

SPEAKER_03 19:22

So talk about even your so your faith journey from from Washita, you know, I uh you know, I can even hear there, you wish you could go back and be different, obviously, have a little bit more wisdom, uh, maybe trust in the Lord more. But where was your walk with the Lord through all that?

SPEAKER_02 19:38

You know, I boy, this is where it gets pretty heavy. Uh and Phil knows a lot of this. Um uh, you know, I'm one of those guys that probably had a closer walk with the Lord through my high school years and college years than I did through my working years. And I hate to admit it, but it's true. Um I'm one of those guys that stayed very active in church and did my church thing, but when I showed up for work on Monday morning, it was all me. You know? Um and I would say in in the larger things in life, I understood the gravity of where God was, but day to day it was all James. And unfortunately, the more success I had, the more I thought it was all James. And this is where it gets kind of uh really important for people to hear. I think um the more my career grew and the more God blessed my career, the more I started trying to take that credit. And guys, you know, it's crazy for a person to do that because God doesn't like credit takers. You know, God will bless you only so long before He will bring it crumbling down around you. And uh I was mightily blessed, and I'm not that smart, really. I I'm really not, I'm not that special, but God gave me a beautiful career, and and you know, I would say by the end of my career, I you know, I had a lot of step-ups where God clearly gave me opportunities I didn't even probably deserve, only to pat myself on the back and tell everybody, look how good I am. And you know, by the end of my career, I I really thought I was something special. And and God God really honestly brought me to my knees at the end of it all. And when I left Tyson in 2016, I was pretty well humbled. You know, and my my biggest advice to to young people today is you know, find a way as you become successful, find a way to keep humility. Find a way to keep your ego in check and uh to recognize the the giver of all good things. Because man, God doesn't like credit takers.

SPEAKER_01 22:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:06

He wants the glory.

SPEAKER_04 22:08

Amen. Can you can you give some simple steps to the man or woman that's listening today that you know that maybe they're at the beginning of their career, maybe they're in in the middle of it. But I I guess first give us some help in how to analyze am I taking too much of the credit or am I how i am I in a dangerous place in regards to how I'm treasuring my career over the Lord?

SPEAKER_02 22:36

You know, uh it's funny, my brother and I were just talking today about a situation and I told him this, but I think the key in that is to always stop and check your motives. Yeah. So in everything. So, you know, I was at at work, you know, do you tend to shade things to just not overtly, but just quietly shade things to make yourself look a little better? You know, do you do you do you do you try to get as much of the good on you as you can? You know, or do you take time to openly give God credit in the workplace? I know I didn't. Um, I'll tell y'all one very important and quick story. When I was uh it would have been about 2006, let's say maybe. I don't remember, five, four. I got demoted to go to Cobb Banchress. I took a demotion. I was an operations VP. I had about eight plants across the country running them for Tyson as an operations guy, doing pretty good. And uh, you know, things I had a guy in the organization. Anyway, things just weren't going great. I had some one one particular guy higher up that was deciding that anyway, it was a good time for me to make a move. So I took a demotion to go to Cobb Bantris. And as I told y'all, that proved to be one of the most pivotal step-up moves I could have ever made in my career. In that move, number one, I had more family time to do things that I never dreamed I'd get to do with my family. Number two, I got to travel the world and learn everything there was to know about international poultry business with connections that I still to this day use even to make money today in consulting business. Um and it it it that job for seven years has enriched my life even today. It was it was amazing. But it it started as a a demotion and what God what others maybe meant for harm, I mean God meant for way good. That one job is the very thing that set me up to come back to Tyson seven years later and take on the role to run the international group.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:12

Now that's and when I got that big job reporting to the CEO, boy, I was sure proud of myself. And and that was really not good. You know, that was a point in time in my life where things got really squirrely for me. And I really I really lost sight and really lost focus of what mattered in a lot of ways. And it was just not a good time for me, and and I regret that I did that. But but I think you can see those things, Phil, in in in understanding your motives for why you do things and how you do things. Yeah. Um, and are you doing them for yourself or are you doing them for the Lord?

SPEAKER_03 25:55

Yeah. You know, a lot of our listeners, it's a you know, it's a Christian podcast, it's a leadership podcast, which means we have Christian leaders that are listening to this, right? Right. So a lot of them are in their 20s, their thirties, uh, they're hungry, they want to build something, and you know, they're not wrong for that. But what's one thing that you would you want them to hear before they make the same trade-offs, maybe that you did? In your own words, you know, even going into the workforce, maybe uh you know, a lot more mature in your faith, or maybe more in tune with your faith and trusting the Lord, and then you slowly you saw that maybe slowly trickle away. Well, or you know, what would you say to them?

SPEAKER_02 26:33

You know, I so this will be a little unconventional. Number one, I'd say get the work ethic back and don't be scared to go in as you're young and work your tail off.

SPEAKER_01 26:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:44

This whole idea of, oh, I'm gonna have all this balance, some of that needs to go away. People need to go when they're young, they need to get busy and go to work. That's that is needed in the workplace today. Number two, whatever business you choose, learn it top to bottom. You are a more valuable asset to your company the more you know. I will say this there's nothing in the chicken business I can't really talk about, top to bottom. So learn the business you're in and know it. Don't just kind of touch it, put your hands on it and know it. Um but then the other side of that is is be cognizant of the fact that that God has a place in the workplace. I I wish I would have done that more. Um today I have no problem recognizing that everything I do, God's got a role in it. Back then I kind of I kind of went to church on Sunday and then I put myself on on Monday. And I wish I wouldn't have done that. I wish I would have, I wish I would have put me and God in, you know, I wish it would have been, I call it congruent, that old j geometry term, right? Yeah. I wish I would have kept my life congruent on Sunday and Monday and Tuesday.

SPEAKER_01 28:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:03

Uh and I just didn't do that.

SPEAKER_01 28:06

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:06

You know, I kind of I kind of did two different life, you know, and so it can yeah, it wasn't congruent.

SPEAKER_03 28:12

It was compartmentalized. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 28:13

It was just and men and men especially are great at compartmentaling the car compartmentalizing their life.

SPEAKER_01 28:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:20

You know, and they can have a great home life and a great church, and they can put all these compartments, then tear all the walls down and just be who you are everywhere you go.

SPEAKER_04 28:29

Yeah. As you talk, I'm reminded of Proverbs chapter three. And I encourage you, if you're listening, if you're looking for a passage in the Bible to pray over your life and to pray over your career, uh check out Proverbs three, maybe one through eight tonight, one through six. But there's this one part of it that says, I probably most of our listeners have have heard it or memorized it. It says, um, in all your ways acknowledge him. In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make your stri make straight your paths. And as I hear you talking, I'm reminded that and God, God wants it all, and he wants to be engaged in all of it. And if we'll just acknowledge him and invite him into every part of our lives, then we can trust where he's gonna take us in the midst of it. Absolutely. Yeah. And if we keep him out of areas, then I think a couple of things happen. One, we risk drifting from God to a place that we never thought we would drift to. Absolutely. Um, and then we also, it's like we're we're opting out of God's blessing over that part of our lives.

SPEAKER_02 29:35

Absolutely. And and you know, I look at the time I spent, you know, I I retired early, to be quite honest with you, and I opted out of a lot of God's blessings at the end because because I I I made a lot of mistakes at the end. I got proud and I got really full of myself, and and I made a lot of mistakes. And and I I regret, I hope, I hope if people listening today can can catch themselves from letting you know what I call ego run amok and and stay grounded, keep the faith involved, keep their faith involved in their work life and and acknowledge in every day that God's involved in what they're doing. They're not doing it alone.

SPEAKER_01 30:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:19

Now they may feel good about what they're doing, but God's God's the one that's enabling every step of every way.

SPEAKER_03 30:25

Yeah. One thing that as you were talking to, I was thinking about Mark 8 36. This is what good is it for someone to gain the whole world and to lose his soul. To forfeit the soul. And you know, sometimes, and I know you know you said that you had a moment, you know, this God humbled you, kind of brought you to your knees. And in the moment you probably weren't thinking it's God's grace to you of a wake-up call. That's right. Uh you're like, what in the world is going on here? Um, but I know in the in that lowest moment, God's grace was right there too.

SPEAKER_02 30:56

Yeah, I wouldn't trade it for anything. And it's a it's a story we won't go into today, but I wouldn't I wouldn't give it for anything because the life I live today.

SPEAKER_03 31:04

As we're closing, give us just one learning. What what one thing in that moment? You know, so coming out of that lowest moment, what one thing did God teach you?

SPEAKER_02 31:13

Um that his grace is sufficient for every need. I and my life is so fully complete and so full of of peace and happiness today. I I I never experienced this level of true joy and peace in my life. Yeah. My entire working years. Just and I wish I'd could have, I wish I could have seen this sooner and to understand that, you know, if you'll just let go and let God do his thing and and trust and and exercise true faith and let God do what God does, it's all gonna be good.

SPEAKER_01 32:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:04

It's all gonna be good. You don't have to put it all on. Once I understood that I could take this big load, because I thought it all had to be me.

SPEAKER_01 32:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:13

And that's a big load to carry. Once I understood I could take that giant load and just say, okay, God, it's all yours. And once I fully understood how to surrender it all and give it to God, man, life got really, really good. Man, that's so good. And I wish that for everybody.

SPEAKER_03 32:32

James, I really appreciate you. I think one thing I want to make sure the listener hears today is, you know, James, you know, you you didn't warn us away from ambition. You kind of leaned in, actually. Absolutely. You warned us away from unexamined ambition. Absolutely. Check your motives and you know, just the drift is slow. Yep. And it's quiet. And by the time it's loud, sometimes you've already missed something. You've already missed it. And I think your perspective today to somebody who is not there yet, and maybe they're in their 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, and they're really building something, they're growing something. You know, maybe even in your 80s, you there's a chance. If you're alive today, you're breathing today. God's grace is right there. It's sufficient today, yeah, sufficient for tomorrow. And he's giving you an opportunity right now, maybe even on this podcast, he's giving you this gift to change your direction today, to change your motives today, and to check yourself and to give God the credit. So I just really thank you for being on the podcast today. Right on. Thank you. And uh, you know, just thanks for listening today. And if today's conversation is one of those that, you know, doesn't let you off easy. I mean, I mean that to compliment you, James. Yeah. Um, if something he said is sitting with you, don't let it go. That's usually God just doing something. So take a minute right now today to ask, you know, what am I actually building and what is it worth and what does it cost? So I think that's really great.

SPEAKER_04 33:49

Yeah, that's great, Jeremy. James, we're so, so grateful for you. Church, family. James gave us something real today. It wasn't a theory, it's not a framework, it's his life. It's in retrospect from what God's taught him over many years of leading at such a high level. Um, and it's also looking forward for his life and for ours, where God is taking us. So we just want to encourage you today. Um, number one, uh, remember that Mark 8 verse that these men talked about? What good is it for someone to gain the whole world yet forfeit their soul? Um, examine right now. What are you giving your soul to? And let's make sure we're giving it to the one who can give us eternal life. And then secondly, let's examine. Look, listen, let's keep examining and um keep acknowledging God every step along the way in every part of our lives. There's no compartments, right? God wants to be in all and through all and above all. So let's lay that down at his feet daily. Um, it's not a rhetorical question. Uh, it's it's real life. So, church, Cross Church family, rise listening audience, we are praying that for ourselves as three men of God who are not perfect. That's right. And we're on the journey with you. We're also praying it for you today. Um, we're so grateful that you joined us for this episode, and we'll talk to you again in a couple weeks.

SPEAKER_03 35:08

We'll see you next time on another episode of the Rise Leadership Podcast.

SPEAKER_00 35:12

Thanks for listening to the Rise Leadership Podcast. If you found today's episode helpful, be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with others in your ministry or community. Let's equip and inspire more leaders together. We'll see you next time on the Rise Leadership Podcast.