The Pipeline, Part 3: What Leading Actually Looks Like

Two regular people with regular jobs outside of church walls — and they're leading some of the most meaningful ministry happening at Cross Church. In Part 3 of The Pipeline, Dr. Jeremy Dixon and Phil McMichael sit down with Chris and Kendall to talk about what it actually looks like to serve, lead, and find joy in it. From the parking lot to the living room, they share how saying yes changed everything — and why the step you've been putting off might be the one that changes your life too. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

It's crazy. We actually had a small group launch out of our small group. One of the girls who for months told me, I can't be a small group leader. I can't be a small group leader. I don't have those skill sets. But just through processing and seeing what it actually looks like, and also realizing delayed obedience is still disobedience. She was like, I don't think I'm ever going to be ready. And so let's step into it and let's let's lead a group.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

Welcome to the Rise Leadership Podcast, where we're equipping and inspiring the Crosschurch leader. Whether you're a dream team volunteer, a seminary resident, or a staff member at Crosschurch, this podcast is designed to help you grow spiritually, lead with confidence, and make a Christ-centered impact in every area of your life. Each episode aims to guide you to rise in your calling and empower those around you. And now, here's today's episode.

SPEAKER_04 0:54

Welcome back to the Rise Leadership Podcast. I'm Jeremy Dixon. I'm here with my co-host, Phil McMichael, or as some of us call him, the Michael Phelps of Cross Church Staff. Phil is uh it's gonna be a different episode today.

SPEAKER_05 1:05

Yeah, it is. Jeremy, thanks for that intro. Um, I uh approved the intro, and I'm pumped about this episode today.

SPEAKER_04 1:12

It's gonna be good. We are in a three uh four-part series, but this is part three of a series called The Pipeline. Part one, a couple weeks ago, Ryan Blackwell walked us through just the origin of the pipeline, how it got built out, why it matters here at this church, but at any church. Part two, Nick Bethay just made the case of that serving on the ground floor really is everything. And today we go even deeper inside of the pipeline. We don't have any staff here with us as guests, no executive pastors today. We're talking to two people who are right in the middle of leading people right here at Cross Church. One leads a parking team, one leads a small group of young women, and uh two completely different contexts. But here's what I want you to hear as we go along today the same pipeline, the same principles, um, even the same guy doing the same thing, forming leaders in the midst of the local church. It's gonna be a good one.

SPEAKER_05 1:58

Yeah, I love it because today is not pastors talking about theories about leadership. It is uh two people that are doing the nitty-gritty work of leadership here at the church. And this is what it actually looks like to lead here specifically at Carl Church. So we are really excited about this.

SPEAKER_04 2:16

We have Chris and Kendall, grateful for y'all to be on the podcast today. Happy to be here. Come on.

SPEAKER_02 2:21

Yeah, we're excited.

SPEAKER_04 2:22

Come on. Well, let's start with just kind of getting to know you guys a little bit more and your role in serving here at the church and maybe even just how you got to the church. So, Chris, we'll start with you. Just kind of tell us about you, your family, and uh what got you here.

SPEAKER_03 2:34

Yeah, uh, I'm originally from Arizona, so spent 28 years out there. I had a um used to design houses, and so um life was all grand and glory, and then the housing market of 2008 crash happened, and so I had a friend who lived out here and he was like, Hey, come give it a try. Got a spare room. It's 28, so I came, just picked up everything and moved out here. Um shortly after that, I met my wife, um star at Target when we were working there. Um, and she actually attended uh Crestchurch. So um she actually was part of the she wasn't the original group that came to settle it, but she was part of the original college ministry group that had in the building over there. So she's she's been there for a long time at Pinnacle Hills. Yeah. Um, so I started obviously dating her, started attending the church, and here I am 15 years later, two kids.

SPEAKER_05 3:27

That's right. Shout out to Tannin, shout out to Daxon. Glad y'all are listening here today to your dad. We are fired up that he's here with us. That's right.

SPEAKER_04 3:35

All right, Kendall, tell us a little bit about you. How you got how did you get connected to Cross Church and all the things?

SPEAKER_02 3:39

Yeah, so I am born and raised Northwest Arkansas, which isn't that common now. Um, I think I'm a sixth generation Northwest Arkansan. So I know. I love it here. Um, my family's still all around, which is sweet. So I went to high school here. I went to college at the University of Arkansas, and that's when I started attending Crosschurch. Um, originally got plugged in with the preschool ministry. Uh, I love kids. I'm a first grade teacher, and so that's where I felt like I could put just some of my passions into play in the church. And then as I graduated college, learned about the social, which is Cross Church's Young Adult Ministry. Can't say enough good things about our young adult ministry. But that's when I started uh stepping into the leadership role of a small group leader for young adult women.

SPEAKER_05 4:30

That's so good. Hey, what what school do you teach at right now, Kendall?

SPEAKER_02 4:33

It's called the International School. It's a downtown Bittonville public school.

SPEAKER_05 4:37

So great. So shout out to everyone at the international school. We are fired up that you are listening today and moaning us, Kendall, for a minute.

SPEAKER_02 4:44

Two weeks and we're back.

SPEAKER_05 4:45

Come on. All right. Well, listen, you guys may know this because we know you're avid listeners of the podcast. But we always start out this podcast with hot seat questions. So we're gonna start with you, Kendall, on this one. Um, and we want you to finish this sentence. The sentence is this the moment that I knew I was actually a leader was when did you realize you were a leader?

SPEAKER_02 5:12

The moment I knew I was actually a leader, right? That's our sentence.

SPEAKER_06 5:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:17

I think the moment I realized I was actually a leader was when I was sitting on my couch waiting for girls to come in. And I was like, oh, I said yes. It's happening. Um, I think as you step into leadership, I don't know if you're ever fully prepared to be a leader. We talked about that a little bit before this of there's no perfect leader. And so I think the moment where I realized I was a leader is when I was in that position and I realized that I was giving these women to steward.

SPEAKER_03 5:47

That's awesome. Chris, what about you? I would have to say, you know, I've been on the parking team on and off for almost 10 years now. Wow. And so for a lot of those years, it was just kind of doing, doing the duty, doing the task, and helping out where I can. But um, we made a change at Pinnacle when Molly took over the first impression and parking came under her. Um, it was short-lived after she took it over. She called me and was like, Hey, let's have lunch. And she was like, I have this vision and I want you to, I want you to lead it. And I was like, kind of taken back a little bit because I was like, It's parking. Like, what what can we really do like better than this? And she shared her plan, and it was it was quite humbling to have that opportunity to that she saw me that way as a leader to drive, you know, the change and what we needed in that in that area.

SPEAKER_04 6:36

Yeah. Talk a little bit about your um usually your corporate background too and what you do. Of how did that interact or grow through even you leading here at church?

SPEAKER_03 6:48

Yeah. Um, you know, as a supply plan manager at Sam's, we're kind of the hub for replenishment. So we talk with merchants, we talk with suppliers, we talk with transportation. So we're like the one one desk that touches everybody. So, but it's challenging because you're not really over anybody. You have to you have to lead through example and lead people that equal or above you to like execute the goals that are needed for for for Sam's Club. And so having that as a core of me from a corporate standpoint really helped because it's just managing processes, it's managing different people, it's managing how do you innovate, how do you change? So a lot of that stuff, you know, I've been pretty good at different jobs throughout my life, but that was definitely helpful with that.

SPEAKER_05 7:36

What's the thing that you love most right now about serving on the parking team?

SPEAKER_03 7:41

Uh well, my wife calls me a social butterfly. So just the pure people interaction part of it, you know, being at a door and saying hi and greeting people, like they're just in the masses coming that way. But I get to talk with the golf cart people, I get to talk with our own team, I get to talk with all the our church members that come there, the staff. Like I'm everywhere. So just the pure people interaction is really fulfilling for me. So that's that's that's where I get it from.

SPEAKER_04 8:09

Let's start at the beginning of you joining the parking team. You said like 10 years ago. Yeah. I mean, you know, uh what we talked about even last year. Kind of got swindled, didn't we? Yeah, yeah. Who swindled? How'd that happen?

SPEAKER_03 8:19

So uh famous Ben Decker, you know. Oh so many of us know Ben. Uh, but Ben, uh mine and his story is pretty unique. He actually built our first house um in Cinnerton when Cinnerton was just little. So you owed him one? I I kind of did, I guess. I'd he'd debate that because I it wasn't the easy build for him. Um but yeah, he was he was looking to move on to a new role because his kids were going up into a different line of ministry and he wanted to kind of join them. So yeah, kind of as the rule of thumb, if you want to move on, you gotta find your replacement. And he kept been howling at me and I was like, you know, all right, I'll give the parking team. And all of a sudden he's like, Yeah, here you go. I'm out. And so thanks, Ben.

SPEAKER_04 8:58

That's about when I came on, because that's when he joined student industry. Yeah, so he started serving the students.

SPEAKER_03 9:03

So that's that's and back then it was just four or five of us again for so many years, it was just managed the crosswalks, and so yeah, you know, and I held that main because that's the position Ben had was that main one across the main entrance there. And so I took that, but you probably couldn't handle it that well, so that makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 9:20

So yeah.

SPEAKER_05 9:20

Well, and I will say this for all of our all our of our park current parking team at Pinnacle Hills, especially, um that parking lot, you'll see how many, how many cars will we see on a Sunday morning in the fall?

SPEAKER_03 9:33

I don't, I can't, I lose track.

SPEAKER_05 9:35

It's seven to eight hundred, I think, on a on a low day, yeah, and way more than that on other days at a time. And so your efficiency is critical to to what happens inside that building. If if your team isn't efficient, and that begins with leadership and with the plan that Molly cast vision for uh so many years ago with you, if that plan isn't working and if you're not communicating it clearly, and if you're not leading your team well, then we will not have an efficient parking lot and we lose people. People don't end up in the building if you're not doing your job.

SPEAKER_04 10:09

Yeah. Kindle art to you, because um remind us of all the different areas that you serve in. And then I want to hear how did you start leading as a small group leader?

SPEAKER_02 10:17

Yeah, so on Tuesdays I serve at the social and our entry team. So I get to hold a sign and greet all of the young adults coming in. Um, and then on Wednesdays is our small group night. On Sundays, I serve in the preschool. Um, I serve what? I was with kindergartners, but now I'm back down with littles. And then a recent passion of mine, I've started serving with Compassion 479, just as I'm trying to become bilingual. That's a goal of mine. And so it's a great space and place to have not only gospel conversations, but also get to practice my Spanish.

SPEAKER_04 10:53

Yeah. So talk about how was that transition jumping then into being a small group leader for young adults?

SPEAKER_02 10:59

Yeah. So I had been serving in the preschool ministry for a while. Whenever I decided I wanted to reproduce my life somewhere else. I love kids. That's what I do Monday through Friday, but I was really looking for just a space where I could have just deeper conversations. And so I didn't initially want to do young adult ministry. It felt really hard because that was my season. And I didn't feel qualified to walk alongside girls or lead girls that were in a similar season as me. But as I started to process with God my own season and realized there was such a need for young adult girls to see other girls who were living as single Christ-following girls in Northwest Arkansas, that's when I finally took the step to creating a small group. Yeah. And it was just so sweet to see that even my little step of obedience and the little faithfulness I had that God just completely blew it up out of my expectations.

SPEAKER_05 12:00

I love that. And what I love about both of your stories uh is what we just heard was that neither of you were thinking about the roles that you currently serve in. You weren't, Chris, you weren't thinking about parking ministry, and you definitely weren't thinking about being the leader of this giant parking ministry. Kindle, you weren't thinking about leading a small group and weren't even thinking I'm qualified to serve to lead a small group, but somebody saw that in you and somebody invited you into that ministry, and now God's using you in such a big way to impact the body of Christ. And so I think that's a a huge testimony for the impact that any of us can have in regards to just inviting people in. Um, Chris, can you talk for a second about that? Have there been any cool stories that you can remember about how you've maybe unexpectedly helped people to step into parking ministry?

SPEAKER_03 12:51

Yeah, so one of our um one of our parking guys, uh Mike Floyd, has been attending our church for a long time. A lot of people know Mike. Mike was a club manager for Sam's Club for a long time. So you want to talk about leadership and what that takes and what that looks like. Like Mike knows a big part of that. But it's funny, just through before I kind of took over everything, I would see Mike every Sunday on that crosswalk and hey, how's it going? We'd talk and just build, honestly, just built a friendship. And then one day he came to me and he was like, Hey, I wanna I wanna start. I was like, What? And he was like, Yeah, let's get it going. I want to help out. And uh later he pulled me aside and he was like, you know, all those years just working, doing, leading, and he goes, I just didn't know what serving kind of looked like, but he goes, I saw how you did it and the enjoyment that you got, and the enjoyment I got by talking to you every week and doing that, and he goes, and I want to help out, and that's something I do. So it's cool to see, you know, Ben kind of recruited me in a way, but to have something like that and a gentleman and a man of God of that level to come and do one want to be a part of it like that. That was pretty cool to see.

SPEAKER_04 14:08

That's awesome because you know, like a guy like Mike, I mean he's l has a lot of leadership ability, has had a lot of leadership gifting and um in this past. And I think that some people might think of a guy like him, let's just use it for example, and you'd be like, and he's in the parking lot. Yeah. So what would you say the person's like, you're you're using your gifts in the parking lot? Like, come on, man.

SPEAKER_03 14:31

Well, that's part of my story too, because when when I started, it was like okay, I'll do parking. Like you just you just sometimes you don't see the value in what it is until you invest in it. It it's I tell my kids this all the time. You get in or you get out what you put in. What you put into it is what you're gonna get out. So um I think for that is don't underestimate what the value could be, don't underestimate what you could be to that value, and then you know, just have faith. You got that's the biggest thing. You have to have faith and trust in God that the the direction that you're going, He opens doors for you. And this was a door that I would have never imagined, and it's led to so many other things in my life and my faith and my walk with everything, yeah. That I would have never that day Ben asked me to try to do it, been like, Yeah, okay, I'll do the parking crosswalk. I would have never thought it would have escalated to what it is today.

SPEAKER_04 15:28

Yeah. And even now getting kind of more specific to like what does it look like? So some of our listeners might have no idea what it goes into being, you know, a team leader over parking, or no idea what it looks like to lead and disciple a bunch of young adult women. So, Kendall, for you specifically, what does a week look like? What like being a good small group leader, your expectations on you, or your expectations that you know that you need to do to be a great small group leader? Like explain some of those things.

SPEAKER_02 15:54

Yeah, I think that there was a lot of learning as I stepped into just what it looks like to be a good small group leader, especially in young adult season, because life is so different for everyone. Something that's really sweet about the season of life that my girls are in and that I'm in is they're so hungry for community and so desperate to just be connected to other believers. And so that's something that we really try and cultivate in small group is not only providing opportunities outside of small group, but also on the weeknight to be able to create connection among the group. And then throughout the week, it looks like a lot of follow-up text, checking in on people. It's been really sweet as small group has developed for me to be able to just delegate and encourage some of the other girls who have been in small group for a while now to take on some of those roles. We have girls who plan our hangout nights. We have girls who um follow up with prayer requests. And so I think those are great things of a small group leader. And it's been sweet in such a transitional season to have other girls step into leadership roles as well to kind of ease the burden on me leading young adult women, which is just hard sometimes.

SPEAKER_05 17:13

Yeah. When we hear you talk about that, what we hear is all of the, you know, all the positives of leading, and obviously you love leading. Um what are some difficulties of leading that maybe you weren't ready for? And how did you navigate those?

SPEAKER_02 17:29

Yeah, I think the hardest thing for me is people's lives are heavy. And as a small group leader and as just in my nature, a fixer, that was something I really had to bring to God as I was processing and becoming a small group leader when these girls were coming and talking about family burdens, when we were talking about um diagnosises or even deaths in the family. It was something that as a young adult girl, I haven't had the most experience with. And so that was really hard to feel their grief and to not take it on, but to also just learn what it looks like to sit in someone when I don't have answers either. And so it became a sweet season and continues to be a sweet season where I'm just in prayer with God often about things I can't control because leading people is a lot of learning. You're not in control.

SPEAKER_04 18:27

One more thing I want to ask you about on that too, is you are leading and discipling people that are in the same exact stage, same age that you have. What was it that has maybe surprised you in that or been difficult where it's like these are like we're in the same season, you know?

SPEAKER_02 18:44

Yeah. I think something that surprised me is how I don't know if the word I want to use is insecure, but unconfident young adults are in how much impact they have. And so I feel like it's been really sweet to walk alongside young adults and me being one myself and have people in my life who call things up and call things out in me. And then I get to have the privilege to look at a girl who knows how to study the Bible, who knows how to pray, who is intentional with people, and they think, Oh, I could never do what you do. And then I get to bring them back to saying, I'm just a 26-year-old girl too, who has a full-time job as a first grade teacher. And this is just what it looks like to be faithful to God. And so it's crazy. We actually had a small group launch out of our small group. One of the girls who for months told me, I can't be a small group leader. I can't be a small group leader. I don't have those skill sets. But just through processing and seeing what it actually looks like and also realizing delayed obedience is still disobedience. She was like, I don't think I'm ever gonna be ready. And so let's step into it and let's let's lead a group.

SPEAKER_05 19:58

Yeah, I think the thing that people sometimes don't account for when they're processing their own fears and maybe even weighing, am I able to do this or not? The things the thing that we forget about is the work of the Holy Spirit in those people you're leading. That's right. And so he wants you to show up, not because you have all the answers, um, but because as you invest in them, then you're just helping them to find God's will. And he's working on the other side of it, putting thoughts in in their minds and putting dreams in their hearts. And I I think if we could take a poll or have you share all your stories, there are probably lots of people you've poured into where you were just there. You were just praying with them, and God helped them to see, okay, here's a step that I want you to take. And you just got to be a part of it. It wasn't anything, you know, heroic or magical about you. You just showed up, you just prayed with them and you helped them to find that next step in their lives.

SPEAKER_02 20:54

Yeah. And that was a big thing too. Just what does success as a small group leader look like when everyone is in different seasons and everything looks so different? And so it was sweet. I had a friend of mine encourage me at the beginning of leading a small group when I was like, this isn't going how I want, the girls aren't having the conversations. She was like, Kendall, open your door, open your heart, open God's word, and he'll do the rest. And so that has been the sweetest thing to pull me through small group. I don't have to know what I'm doing or have all the answers because I'm being faithful to take those steps. And every time we open God's word, it doesn't return void. And so he's gonna do the rest and I can take the pressure off of myself.

SPEAKER_04 21:35

So good. Chris, I want you to get specific now because I feel like maybe more people understand the nitty gritty of a small group, but probably less understand what in the world do you do besides be there. Like they're like, Wait, don't can't we just have, you know, cones out there? Do we really need Chris and the boys in there?

SPEAKER_03 21:51

We'll probably talk about how many cones we have nowadays, but yes, I guess that's true.

SPEAKER_04 21:56

Well, give us a little bit of nitty gritty behind the scenes of you know. What it what's so fun about it, what's great about it, what's difficult, where the challenges give us a little behind the scenes of parking at Pinnacle.

SPEAKER_03 22:08

Well, I would say now it's fun. It it's fun now. Um, we've hit this season of where we're just striding. But it was rough for a while. I'm not gonna lie, it was pretty rough when when Molly sat me down and asked me, and I was like, okay, like, yeah, let's do this. But there was a big butt to that, and I was like, you guys are gonna have to hear and be open to some radical changes. And like we cannot do them, but we're gonna have some of the same problems that we will continue to always have. But if we I won't come to you unless I truly believe that this will work, and so yeah, there was there was a lot of painful. We started with six people, and I was one of the six. Um, we've grown to 34 people in 18 months. Yeah. Um, we've torn up parking lots, we've they've churches acquired two new three golf carts, like the growth that it has is pretty immaculate. And it's and it's all because of God. But I think what happened initially was it was just the painful task of really embracing that people there, you know, there's there's statistics that people make a decision about something in seven minutes or less. I know a lot of us have heard all that. Molly speaks on it all the time, but it's truly about that is the first seven minutes can make or break your your trip there. And so for so long, just as an attendee of myself, I just accepted parking was what parking was. Like we're we're limited, we're scrunched behind um business buildings. You know, half of what people think of our parking as isn't ours, right? And so luckily they're all closed on Sunday, so we can benefit from all that. But I think just the growing pains of having to figure out what is gonna be the best for our church, yeah, what's gonna be the best for us to grow. You know, we went to the construction of the moving the kid uh the student building over there, which it used to be over in the business section over there, which alleved some of it because people would park over there further. Well, now it's connected to church, now everybody wants to park closer, and so it it kind of compiled, compressed more of the problem what it was. But you know, thank you, Molly, and thank you, Deitch, and and Pastor Nick and everybody else that made the decisions because they they invested in us. They we showed them the plan, they believed in what we had, and they did it. And you know, we went from we were still trying to park people at 11 to get them in for or at 10 to get them in for the 9:30, and they were still parking when music was going on the 11 for 11. We literally have everybody parked 10 minutes before services now, which is just dumbfounding to me in some ways.

SPEAKER_05 24:52

Yeah, yeah, it's really amazing. Um obviously you're over all the logistics of that. You've helped us make great changes, but also I'm guessing there've been there just as Kendall talked about ministry, life on life ministry that she's done with her small group. Can you talk to us about that? And has there been any level of that that's surprised you with the team that you've lead that you're leading?

SPEAKER_03 25:15

I think what's uh surprising me is the diversity of our team. Like we have social kids, we have Mike that's been there forever, we got everybody in between. Um, and just to see what the team has, I mean, if you put us all up next to each other, you'd be like, This these guys don't work together. What is this group over here? Like, you would have no idea. It's the puppet team. But you know, for a long time, I just led because there was a new direction, and there you gotta have a leader that can just do that. I can leave now and it gets executed the same whether I'm there or not. Now it helps if I'm there because I'm another body and stuff. But you know, to see certain people grow, you know, Philip Philip came on board with us, you know, he did a lot of help with the Fayetteville campus and some of that parking stuff. Uh, but even him in a lot of ways, you know, he's stepped up into a leadership role now where you know the ultimate goal was for me to be kind of the the overarching leader and then have some specific service group leaders. So both uh Philip and Eric have just really stepped forward in a big way and taken some leadership within that, just stepped up just to be stepped up. But even even a lot of our core guys that are there every week, you know, you know, Casey and Nick and Kevin, they may not be leaders, but they're leading because they're there. Yeah, and they they love being there. I've asked them all the time, like, hey, you guys don't have to do two, like we we're getting to a point where you didn't. They're like, No, we want to be here for both. Yeah, and just so just the passion um for them to do that and to be there, um, and then to see people grow. Um, you know, Nick, Nick is newer to our church. Um, he he's like he's a character. I love Nick, but to see what he's done, you know, his kids are now fully in ingrained in the church. They're going to um, they're in the student ministry, they're doing extra stuff, they're wanting to serve, like, so it's cool just not to see what the men on the group have done. It's what is outgoing to their their friends and their families and what's all that going. So leadership is just not what we execute on the church grounds and the parking lot. It it gets extended out, and it's it's truly amazing to see the growth of a lot of these guys, young or or old.

SPEAKER_04 27:33

I think what you've both said is so important. So if you're listening today, I want you to tune in to hear this the the similarities that we're hearing of this that people just don't even realize about what does it look like to serve, kind of like what we talked about in the last episode. But leader development is discipleship, like it's a part of discipleship. So you know, both of you play a major part of discipling our people. And and sometimes people don't realize that you might think that more of a small group leader than a parking team leader, but what we want for people, and this is why we want people to serve, not necessarily do we just need a spot. Yeah, we we want for you to grow in your walk with the Lord, and as you're pouring out, you're growing. And so, you know, Kindle, as you're leading your girls and you're as you're you know, say, Hey, can you do this little part? Hey, can you do this? And you're showing those girls it's not that hard to be a smoker bladder. You just can be faithful, open your doors, and be there and and love on girls, and they're like, you know what? You know what? I can I can do this for somebody else, or I can have that conversation. I've gotten to see a little glimpse of what it looks like to be an example there. And like for you, Chris, you have these. I mean, you know, Phil Nunia is a stud. So yeah, he and he's don't turn, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:41

He doesn't need any of that. Yeah, just kidding, delete this, delete this later.

SPEAKER_04 28:45

So make sure Philip doesn't get a bigger head. Yes. But you know, like as you're pouring into these guys, and they're like, I'm just here on the parking team, and they're getting to be a part of something, they're getting to see their impact, they're getting to have a mission, and all these people, a lot of them, you know, they're doing similar things for work. They're gonna use those skills like you even had in your job, and then use it for the kingdom. And whenever you are able to use the gifts that God's given you for the kingdom, it just changes everything.

SPEAKER_03 29:13

Well, and I think you have to be open, like sometimes you don't realize what your gifts are. Yeah. Like sometimes you may think this is your gift, but it's not your gift. And then you do something that's outside of your box and you find out that that is a gift that you have, and yeah, and I think that's the big encouraging piece to to make sure people are open to that, just not in serving, but when leadership roles come up to play, like yeah, it this could be for you.

SPEAKER_04 29:40

I want to ask both of you the same question. What has serving, what has leading in your case, what has it done for your faith?

SPEAKER_02 29:47

Yeah. Um, I think I hit on this a little bit earlier, but it has grown my dependence on God so much. Um, I think just like being a person who's born and raised northwest Arkansas, we have a lot of things here. And so um just that utter dependence and that need for God, when you lead other people, there is there is no deeper need for God than when you're trying to navigate life with other people. And so I feel like in my personal relationship with God, it's just grown my dependency on him. Um, it also has grown just how I model. You hit on that a little bit, but ministry and life is day in and day out. And it's not these big conversations, it's not always these things. It can just be how you greet people at a restaurant, how you act in certain places. And so I feel like being a small group leader too has really grown just how I am an imitator of Christ, not only for the impact of the kingdom, but also to show my girls, like you said, that it's completely doable as you walk in step with God, He is going to provide opportunities and grow those areas where you don't feel like you have strengths.

SPEAKER_04 31:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:00

What about for you, Chris? How's it grown your faith? You know, for me, it's it's complete and utter humbleness. Like I came from a background that I, you know, I had this conversation with my boy the other day. Like, if you would have told me 40 years ago when I was five or even 35 years ago when I was a teenager, sure, like this is where I would be, I would have laughed at you. Because like the trajectory of what my life would have been and the path would, I would have been like, there's no way possible. And so to be able to be here and be not just a part of a church, but to have a church have enough faith in me to lead in a godly way, like it's really humbling. And I just I'm blessed and I'm thankful. It it's just for me, it's just it's surreal in a lot of ways because you know, it it just puts you back to he keeps you safe. He'll make sure you get there eventually. Sometimes you gotta do your own thing to figure out that path sometimes. Yeah, but if you just trust in him, like it will be great. Yeah, and I think that's what it is for me is just the humbleness of the faith and just knowing that it's okay if you're not perfect, but you can still be great in in the eyes of God and He will He will reward you for it.

SPEAKER_05 32:21

Yeah, and I think the more aware we are of our of our inadequacies, maybe the better off we are because it does lead us to the place where we need to be anyway. It leads us closer to the giver of joy and the giver of peace and the giver of life. So we may be holding back and not jumping in to lead or serve because we're afraid of we may not be adequate, but it's actually that's the b such a big part of God's best plans for us to pull us close to Him is by putting us out there into positions that we can't do on our own. And so as we wrap out or wrap up today, I want you both to speak directly to someone to who's listening today. And I want you to speak to the person who maybe they're in their car right now or they're on their couch and they're at the gym and they're listening to this podcast, and they are the person who for a while now they've been contemplating taking a step of obedience and serving. Maybe it's a leadership, maybe it's joining one of our one of our teams here at our church or another church, but they haven't taken the step yet. Um, Kendall, you go first and just speak to that person and encourage that person. Um, what do they need to hear today about that step that God may be calling them to take?

SPEAKER_02 33:37

Yeah. I would just say God is so much bigger than our doubts. Over and over again, I have seen that when we are just faithful with little, he is so faithful in return. And so you don't have to have it all figured out. Whenever I started this small group, um, they told me that I was doing this thing called Tailgate Tuesday, which is super exciting, but I knew no young adult girls. I was looking for the season for myself, but also to lead. And I was just filled with doubt. How am I gonna lead a small group if there's no people to lead? Um, and God just continues to bring girls in the door who are hungry and who are eager for community and for nearness with Him. And so I think for someone who is processing, I am not ready for that step, or this is in the way, you will continue to make excuses, but God will continue to meet you with His faithfulness. And there's never gonna be a perfect season to step into something. I think that's when I was thinking about it. I was starting the social kind of kicks off in August, which is also when I start with teaching. And I was like, I can't do that. That's a lot in the month of August. Um, but as God just started to grow my heart, there's never a better time. Like you will continue to make just excuses and knowing that taking that step, God is gonna meet you even more would be my biggest encouragement because it never returns void.

SPEAKER_05 35:10

Yeah, so good. Um, it's hard to follow that, Chris. I'm like, gosh, she's a superstar.

SPEAKER_04 35:15

Can I just say and can we just say ditto and it'll be good? And I remember that Tellgate Tuesday and you starting that. And gosh, you're just so infectious too, and just so fun. It is. It's man. All right, so Chris, it's overwhelming a little bit over here. Good Lord. No, come on, speak to the person.

SPEAKER_03 35:32

So what I would say is, I'd echo a lot of what Kendall said, but what I would say is don't let fear overtake you. Yeah, yeah. I think uh more more times than not, it comes down to just being afraid, whether it's confidence, whether it's the lack of ability, whether it's just I don't really want to do that. Um, a lot of it just comes down to that. So I would say open word community uh the community part, you know, who who are you connected with? Who are those people? If you don't have a group, like that's where you're hesitant of a small group. You're like, I don't know if I want to invest in a small group. You'd be surprised. Like our parking team is a parking team, like we all get along, we all can hang out, we all do stuff. So like you can be a part of a community and be a part of a network that would really fulfill maybe some gaps that you have in your life. And don't be afraid to challenge yourself either. Like, that's I think that's where for me initially it was like, yeah, I'll do it. Seems like something to do, church needs help. But then it turned into this really pushed me to a different level. Um, and it it it made my faith grow bigger, it made my faith grow stronger, it made me have bigger connections. So for somebody that just does the everyday church thing, I know Nick talks about that a lot, that that doesn't check the box. And to just be engaged, you know, I hear a lot of people are like, Well, you go to a big church, how do they know what you are? And I tell them this every day. I'm like, if they don't know who you are, you don't know who they are, and so you're only as connected to your church as you want to be invested in your church, and so that's the best way to get invested is to serve and to get connected because if you're on the sidelines all the time, you're never your number's never gonna be called. And so if but if you're there and you want to be a part of it, you want to be a part of the team, you can be an all-star. You can be you can be great, and I think that's that's overcome the fear of change or the inadequacy of doing something.

SPEAKER_04 37:48

You start leading, you start serving. One day you can be like an all-star, like Kendall and like Chris.

SPEAKER_02 37:54

And you can be on a podcast.

SPEAKER_05 37:56

Yeah, which now you get an excuse to listen to. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 37:59

I know. I can't wait. I can't wait.

SPEAKER_05 38:00

Well, what I love about today, or many of those I love a lot of things, but one of the things I loved about today is we've heard so many stories. Both of you listed so many names of people who've invested into you and people you've invested into.

SPEAKER_03 38:13

And so there's so many more that I do mention.

SPEAKER_05 38:16

Yeah, and in in some way, we we wanted this episode to be about ordinary people. And then at the same time, it's a great reminder to me that there's there's no ordinary person. When the Holy Spirit of God is in your life, you have a supernatural potential to impact people in a way that goes far beyond what you could ask or imagine. Yeah. And so for any person, I I love the theme that I'm hearing is um let's step away from fear um and let's step into God's best plan for our lives. Um, because when the Holy Spirit's involved, he he's bigger than your fear, he's bigger than your potential apart from him. And now you have a potential to do something bigger than maybe um anything that we could draw up on paper by ourselves. So I love this episode, Jeremy. I'm so glad that you that uh you you put this one together. It's it's been really great.

SPEAKER_04 39:08

And I know it's gonna help a lot of people. I think it's really special too, because we have a lot of pastors or you know, missionaries who listen to this, and you know, our job in Ephesians chapter four is to equip the saints for the work of the ministry. And and people, you know, and we love talking about that a lot on this podcast of what does it look like? But it looks like this. Yeah, it looks like this of when we have, you know, you're you're the you're the pastor in the parking lot, man. And and you know what? Me and Phil are not sitting down with a bunch of young adult girls in an apartment and and discipling them and talking about scripture to them, right? It's like, we need you there, we need you there. And I just so appreciate y'all being on the podcast today and just setting a great example to our people and then everybody listening to this podcast of like you can use your gifts to impact the kingdom in a greater way.

SPEAKER_05 39:53

Yeah, that's that is the leadership pipeline here at Cross Church. It's not a program, it's the people, people who are developed by someone who are now pouring into other people. And and like the two of you said, it starts with one yes.

SPEAKER_04 40:05

That's right. Next episode, we are wrapping up the series, part four, the leading, the leading of leaders. And uh, we're talking about what it looks like when you stop leading a team, like we talked about even today, and start developing the leaders on your team. So you're not gonna want to miss it. Cross Church, we love you, and we will see you next week on another episode of the Rise Leadership Podcast.

SPEAKER_00 40:25

Thanks for listening to the Rise Leadership Podcast. If you found today's episode helpful, be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with others in your ministry or community. Let's equip and inspire more leaders together. We'll see you next time on the Rise Leadership Podcast.