113. Sober Sex, Psychedelics, & Finding Bliss in the Ordinary | Amy Edwards

Amy Edwards and I start this episode discussing the most Austin way possible to meet someone… at a pussy casting workshop. 😂 

But from there, we dive DEEP into sobriety, psychedelics, emotional availability, intimacy, dopamine, performance, reinvention, and what it means to feel alive without constantly chasing the next high.

Amy opens up about cheating in past marriages, seeking validation through sex and alcohol, exploring polyamory, healing through psychedelics, and ultimately discovering that what she truly wanted wasn't more experiences… it was deeper intimacy.

We also talk:

• sober sex & intimacy: the terror, the awkwardness, & the beauty
• dopamine depletion & alcohol 
• women reinventing themselves later in life 
• learning to trust yourself 
• finding bliss in ordinary moments 
• growth through discomfort 
• psychedelics: 5-MeO DMT & ayahuasca
•  social media visibility + hate comments 

It's funny. It's real. It may lovingly call out the thing you've been calling a spiritual practice when it's actually just avoidance.

🎧Press play. By the end of this convo, Amy and I were high on life... no substances required.  

Timestamps:
00:00: Our pussy casting workshop meet cute
04:00: Sex as validation: decades of performing without knowing it
07:00: The Molly night that changed everything (& why she chose intimacy over polyamory)
15:00: Four years sober: the dopamine truth nobody tells you
22:00: Sober sex and the first play party nervous breakdown
38:00: Psychedelics, mescaline in Guatemala, and integration that takes months
41:00: Losing her literal voice during divorce... and healing it
45:00: Showing up on Instagram: the viral pile-on, the wardrobe room, the commitment anyway
55:00: Treat life as an experiment

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The Amy Edwards Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/5SdojmuUpXfksyQD8gbXJm?si=ad0825df9ac84f55

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Transcript

Kristin (00:00.11)

Welcome back guys to another episode of Sex, Drugs, and Soul. Today I have on Amy Edwards. I'm super stoked ever since I met you, which I definitely want to share our meet cute story. It's a good one. Because it's unique. I just loved your energy and style and like you're a queen of reinvention. So I'm like, yay, we can do that. Thank you. Yeah, so okay, let's dive into how we met. Yeah, okay, so I signed up for this workshop on a whim.

Amy (00:17.816)

Thank you.

Amy (00:22.638)

Do you want to start?

Kristin (00:27.51)

And was like, okay, this sounds interesting. Like I really want to explore tantra and psychosexuality more. So I was like, pussy casting workshop, cool. I had to cart. Like I want to celebrate my body and have a memento. And then like we met and we were partners. I was like, that's right. Like, hi, nice to meet you, Stead Eagle. Yeah, completely sober.

Amy (00:45.006)

We were intimate right away.

Amy (00:49.494)

No drugs involved.

Yeah, I had Samantha Charles who runs those workshops, the Yoni casting, the pussy casting. it just, I'm all about things that push me outside my comfort zone. And that pushed me outside of my comfort zone. And plus I wanted to respect my body. mean, one of my children actually is about to turn 21 and asked the other day, like, why do you have your pussy on your vanity? You know, casting of it. And I was like, and then I said, you know, that's the portal that you came from, Sydney. I'm like, you know what, it's about respect. And Sid goes,

Like, that's cool. And I was just like, Sid was born female and is non-binary now, but I was like, you know, that's the attitude we gotta teach the next generations. And this should be normalized, right? Even though it's not at all. All my friends thought I was totally insane and yours probably were, well, yours probably were like, yeah.

Kristin (01:41.336)

mean, it's a mix. It's a mix. I'm from the Piney Woods, Backwoods, so when my mom comes, she's like, what's that? You know, because we had different names for down there or private parts. And so I think you're right, like educating the next generation to not attach shame or, you know, like a piece of us. It's like, is it separate from us? No, it's a product. I mean, that's portal.

Amy (02:00.59)

literally where my child came from. it's just like, should they be put off by it? I mean, I don't want to see my mom's pussy, frankly, but at the same time, maybe I need to shift my mindset around that, you know? Like, so anyway, I think it was a really cool way to meet. And the thing is, I don't think of you and just immediately see your pussy. Like it was a special sacred thing that we got to share. And I'm really grateful for that. It's really special.

Kristin (02:27.854)

Yeah, it really was. And I felt so held and like, I can hear it relax or like drop into it instead of like be up in my head or be like, oh my God, what does it look like? Is it normal? Am I normal? And so it was a beautiful ceremony. And like my mom's coming into the town too. And so I'm wondering now if she'll notice it on my altar. Yeah, you know.

Amy (02:48.91)

That's the portal, right? Respect. And if anybody's wondering too, Samantha, think still sells the kits. I don't know if you've talked about it on this show, but yeah.

Kristin (02:58.318)

just went to Guatemala and I'm pretty sure she still has the kids. Yeah. She's got a lot going on right now, but I'll ask her if it is, I can link it.

Amy (03:05.918)

It might be worth it if someone's curious because it does push you outside your comfort zone. And I think that's a lot of what your show's about and what life's about, right? So at least for me.

Kristin (03:15.534)

And you can do it in the comfort of your own home. You don't have to do it in like a group setting. Cannonball, not dip the toe cup people, I'm guessing. So when we were prepping and kind of doing a couple emails back and forth, I loved what you said about like, well, I've done a lot of sex and drugs and that's either depleted my soul or fed it. And so I'd love to kind of like go through a story arc of younger Amy, maybe win some

Amy (03:26.847)

I know!

Kristin (03:44.238)

sex or drugs or medicine got introduced and like how it's evolved and now I know that you're sober and I definitely want to like kind of give that full arc and like talk about what's shifted to, but maybe we'll rewind to the beginning to start.

Amy (03:58.062)

Yeah, I started having sex at a pretty early age and I didn't understand that I was not even doing it for myself until I was like in my late 40s. And it takes a lot of work and self-work and I've done it and psychedelics and drugs were a big part of that in both ways, good and bad. But I think that once I became conscious of that,

It was just such a surprise to me. Like I was living in a performative space. I was living in a people pleasing space. I was kind of taught that and absorbed that as the youngest child in my family. I mean, there were only two kids, but I still was just like, I feel like I was cute and then the youngest and wasn't really heard and listened to. So I was searching for ways to find validation and

both sex and drugs and alcohol were big parts of my own seeking validation. And it's all led to my own journey into sobriety, which has been a real turning point for me. And I'm at four years now. And it's fascinating to see that you can find bliss in the ordinary, and it's not about those peak experiences and constantly seeking. it just took sitting and being still

for me to start to understand that I was seeking, that I was seeking validation. I'd been married twice. I got married at 26 years old and had a child in that marriage and got divorced about 33 after she was born. That's the one I mentioned, Sydney. And then I got remarried very quickly afterward and to someone I had known years back in high school.

we had a child together and then I got divorced in my 40s from that marriage and I had to really take stock and look at my life. I cheated in both marriages, which I'm open about, but that was more of a symptom rather than the cause in my opinion. They might speak differently about that, but I understand it in a whole different way because through sex, I was seeking to fill my soul. I'm sure you...

Kristin (06:17.414)

I can totally relate. mean, can't know if I, until I explored like open relating and polyamory in some way, I'm like, I was the one that would philander or have secret messages or whether it was emotional or physical too. So I can totally relate and see too that was like, okay, I wasn't giving myself the love. I wasn't filling my cup. I was like seeking for something. And there was also emotional unavailability on probably both of our parts in that time too. So yeah.

Amy (06:41.92)

Isn't that fascinating? I realized I hadn't experienced like true intimacy. And yet I thought I had and I thought, right. I'm just not cut out for marriage. I'm, I need, you know, multiple partners or something. And I thought, polyamory is probably the answer or pulling whatever. And I thought that's probably what I need. And it was very talked about.

Kristin (07:01.518)

Yeah.

Amy (07:09.056)

at that particular point too. I was in Aubrey Marcus's group Fit for Service. And that was right after, when my second divorce was going on. And so I was really seeking like, what is up with me? Kind of thing. And so, you know, there were a lot of psychedelics involved, a lot of self work, a lot of workshops and all that kind of stuff, like what you mentioned. But I really, once I started to do the work, I realized that wasn't what I wanted.

didn't have was the true intimacy. And the more work I did on myself, which is based in self-love, the more I got to the root of, I'm the problem, it's me. like, Yeah. Like, I am the, you absolutely are, wherever you are in your life. You're the common denominator and it's worth looking at, like, what am I seeking and why can't I just be still and then.

Kristin (07:50.48)

Are we coming to nominees?

Amy (08:05.142)

And so I met my husband, Justin, through Fit for Service. we were both in it and went to a retreat in 2020. And it was powerful to me. We have a meet cute too, not quite like ours. And we were in these circles of people that were doing a lot of drugs, journey hopping, if you want to call it that.

Kristin (08:21.801)

Yeah.

Amy (08:34.258)

And in Polly talking about multiple partners, I Aubrey Marcus was maybe around that phase at the time. And we both thought, that must be a more enlightened path. That must be a better way. And once he and I really started to get deeper into that, I remember one night, I had just done enough self work by this point where I started to question if that was really what I wanted. And when I met a man like Justin, I thought,

don't think I want that with him. Why don't I want that with him? And it felt like I was not honoring myself if I did that. And I realized I wanted true intimacy with someone like that. And we took a whole bunch of Molly one night and somebody had given me like a whole little Altoids tin just, bull. And I was like, he hadn't done it before. And so I thought we were like,

And he was healing from addiction. He'd been to treatment, but drugs don't heal addiction, unfortunately. He tried. He really tried. He gave it a good go, but they don't. And so at that point, though, he was still trying some things. And we took a whole bunch of Molly, and we ended up talking as you do, really heart opening, really deep. And I kind of put the shoe on the other foot with him, and I was like, he was like, think, you know, I need Polly. He was fresh out of a divorce too.

And we really explored it. And I said, okay, let's imagine me getting ready for another, a date with someone else. Like, how do you really feel? And, you know, we had explored the idea of compersion, of course, which is that happiness for someone else. But I was like, I don't think I'm a big enough person for that. I don't want that. and that doesn't push me in a way that feels like authentic to me. And some people,

might be right for, you know, but not me. And I think once he really put it into, sometimes when we put things into real world picture.

Kristin (10:38.318)

Instead of

Amy (10:40.83)

everything. I mean, I think of this total left turn, but I think of gun violence. I was a spokesperson for Moms Demand Action for Gun Violence in America for a few years. And I did that because I forced myself to think about what it would be like to sit through a school shooting. And I was like, now I have to do something. You know, and like we have these moments in life where we can really think about it. And if you really think about it, are you really

cool with that, is that what you really want? And it made me realize I really wanted the intimacy once I really went there and thought about it in my mind. when I sat in that without fear of losing a man, right? And didn't do what I participate in like, I'll go along with this. And it's probably okay because I've been taught that the men know best from my religious upbringing, my entire life, like obey and all that shit.

Kristin (11:29.378)

Mm-hmm

Amy (11:37.92)

and men know, whatever, and older men and all that. That's a whole nother thing. Once I really sat with that, I was like, wow, like this feels really good and ended up, he was like, I don't want that either. And he ended up going, I really want you, I love you. And he just ended up rising higher every time. And I was like, wow, you mean I can own my boundaries and.

and really tap into what I really want and everything will be all right, like groundbreaking, you know? So that was a surprise to me and a delight. And I think that as my sobriety has evolved, that's been even more fun to lean into and know that I'm gonna be okay. And that was part of the work, right? Knowing you're gonna be okay. Anyway, long winded. I love wasn't my life story, but.

Kristin (12:32.012)

You know, you get the idea. love it. Like, because as you're describing, the, to me, that intimacy is that depth and meeting one another in the vulnerability spaces, it's like tears are brought to my eyes. like, because I've also gone on like a similar curiosity. Okay, like I'll try this hat on and see, okay, does this work? Okay, that's cool. But it was also a sneaky little way for me to almost avoid getting deep in some ways when that's the thing that I long for the most. And so it's been interesting to navigate.

And so like as you're speaking, I was thinking of someone particularly like, I know we're supposed to talk about sobriety, but maybe we need to do a little Molly. Which I've kind of been like curious about too. And there's been phases of my life where was like, okay, for sure. Like external validation seeking and experimentation. Like I loved Hunter S. Thompson. So I was like, oh my God, to have a story to tell, I got to try all these drugs and do all these substances. I don't have to do that, but it definitely added a little flavor. Sure. Yeah.

I took a little hiatus in 2023. was like, I'm gonna see if I can actually like stick to at least like six months, no drinking. Or like approach it with a different level of intentionality. Like, am I celebrating something or am I just like going along to get along and like, oh, I'm celebrating this or it's ZOZO's birthday or it's like, I really love this glass of wine. And so I was like, okay, I proved to myself, I can do it. And then, so I'd love to know too, like how that's kind of evolved for you too, like the sobriety element.

the piece too, as far as whether it was the drinking or at what point or like what stages, like I'm gonna release this or then like how it's opened up or maybe even strengthen like y'all's relationship or what's changed even like friendships wise too. I'm so curious. I'm gonna throw like a bunch at you.

Amy (14:17.39)

That's a bunch, but that's okay. Let's dive in and what I forget, just bring it.

Kristin (14:20.654)

Or we'll go on another curve and I'm full of Yeah, who knows?

Amy (14:23.756)

So I think, though, sobriety as a whole, I talk a lot about living life and getting out of your comfort zone. And that is where growth happens. And don't get me wrong, psychedelics are not in my comfort zone. Alcohol absolutely is. But psychedelics know I cry before I do a psychedelic journey. I'm fearful that this is it. I'm going to be committed to the whatever. Looney Ben, Looney Ben, I'm sorry if we don't say that anymore.

Kristin (14:51.874)

got shock treatment so it's okay.

Amy (14:56.206)

But that's it, right? But I think though, in the bigger picture of sobriety, I drink a lot. Alcohol was probably my number one of choice. Social, I love it. I love alcohol. And I can just come out and say that, I do. And at some point, the scale kind of tipped and I noticed that being sober was way outside my comfort zone. I was like, shit. I was like, then that's where the growth is.

And it kind of coincided. I'd been thinking about it anyway, noticing it, and Justin was really understanding. He went back to treatment, and we've been very open about that. And he went back to treatment and really was like on a sober path. And I had a woman on my show, on my podcast, The Amy Edwards Show. Her name is Amanda Cuda. She's a sober coach for women. And she was talking about...

what opens up in your life, the manifestation, all the things, when you let alcohol go. And I was like, uh-oh, well, let me just, she has a 90 day, you know, experience or whatever, kind of like what you did. And so I had had periods, actually, no, I only had two periods when I was pregnant of being sober. And even then you're like, I can't wait to have a drink, you know, you're laying there and I'm like, bring me a glass of champagne. And so I, after interviewing her,

Kristin (16:11.672)

But anyway.

Amy (16:18.686)

I was like, I should do this. I should just try. And so I tried for 90 days and I thought, well, I'll go to three months. then I went to three months or it's 90 days, three months, whatever. I went to six months. went to, I just kept going because I recognized that it was way outside my comfort zone. So those times with friends when you're going out to have a drink, like, or you're just going to meet up, like you sort of go, do I really want to do this? How am going to feel in the morning? It just makes you see it through a new lens.

And friendships will fall away some, you know? But also, I have one of my best friends since we were 12 years old. She and have a pattern of drinking and smoking, like, that goes back to age 14. And you know what? Now she's sober.

Kristin (17:01.838)

Yeah!

Amy (17:03.49)

Quit drinking. And I was just, I'm like still kind of astonished. And she's like, I feel so much better. Life is so much better. And I'm like, I didn't see that one coming because I think we did start to diverge a little bit. But at the same time, I think she saw my life and was like, maybe there's value in it. am in my 50s. At a certain point you're like, haven't I drank enough already? It loses its luster after a bit. I did finally at about a year, I was like, my life is still

feels kind of dull. And I was like, it doesn't feel like it's opening up in this manifestation way where it's just roses and bliss. And I called Amanda, the sober coach, and have you met her? She's great.

Kristin (17:46.734)

I'm curious, I'm totally gonna do like a little deep dive. Yeah, she's awesome. I'm like, I'm gonna do 90 days after my birthday. Yeah. Saturday. Oh! 38. I'm loving it. I'm like, hell yeah. I feel way more in my skin and bones and like, it's just great.

Amy (17:52.67)

Yeah, winter birthday? How old are you turning? 38. 38.

Late 30s are awesome.

Amy (18:06.894)

Because I think there's something about the end of a decade that you just sort of are like, I'm gonna make the most of this, you know? Like, anyway, I digress. Anyway, I call Amanda and I'm like, I'm not, like, what's happening? When does this happen? When is this manifestation amazingness gonna happen? And she was like, hang in there. It takes a while for your dopamine to level out. And I started doing some research and it really does. I think when you drink that long, it is in you. Like the amount of dopamine that's normal range.

I'm gonna make up some numbers I can't remember. It's like 30 or whatever. I don't know how it's measured. But when you drink alcohol or do any drug, it is off the charts. We're talking in the hundreds. Like it is a external dopamine source. And when you go off of it, then you're depleted. so it takes, for your dopamine to even out, takes a long time. It took me two years. And I mean, I didn't do anything. I didn't...

vape even. I didn't do shit. And that was tough. It wasn't easy. And Justin was getting back into sobriety too. So at least I had a partner that was doing it too.

Kristin (19:15.886)

I feel like that would make it a little bit easier as far as like, okay, honey, you're gonna have a glass of wine with, okay, at least we're going, we're holding hands, like walking the same path together.

Amy (19:24.834)

Yeah. And I mean, there's little hacks you can do. know, I like a tart cherry juice that's room temperature in a wine glass, right? Like, it's help. And I've found workarounds, you know, in social settings and things like that. Do I miss it? Yeah, sometimes. But it probably passes within two minutes. I mean, and I don't miss a lot of other things. I miss that initial buzz. I miss the way alcohol feels. in the big picture, it passes if you can just sit with it.

Kristin (19:32.002)

Did you Romanticize that?

Amy (19:55.39)

It has truly, I feel better now at age 53 than I've ever felt in my life. And I don't think it's a coincidence with the sobriety. yes, we're gonna feel, I do think we feel better as we age. We get stronger, we get more confident. We just get better with age. And the sobriety definitely contributed to that. And I think that is an important message for anyone to hear.

If you want to keep feeling better at any age, at a certain point you have to look like, okay, is that outside my comfort zone and is there growth to be had there? And that is valuable growth. That's what I did to feel good at this age.

Kristin (20:40.558)

Yeah. I'm trying to think of like, okay, I'm like, what scares me? Or what would be outside of my comfort zone? Let's see, motherhood. So I'm like, how does that... And what came up for me as you're talking to, like dopamine levels, and if I do do this 90-day thing, I've been a no my entire life as far as like motherhood goes until recently. Like got my egg count tested and I'm like, do I freeze? Do I not? And so now I'm like, it kind of would make...

sense to for me like okay cleanse my body like I'm doing like the NAD I'm doing like all like the wellness longevity stuff like why not do that if I am going to freeze my eggs just in case. I want to make that decision later on and I don't want my body to make the decision for me because I'm like if it's like if you can do that to our dopamine levels and like what can it do through the quality of like our egg health and all these other things too. Everything's connected.

Amy (21:32.131)

to everything is connected. It's something to explore, right? Especially if your focus and intention is on it, you're thinking about it, you know. Motherhood definitely does push you.

Kristin (21:42.109)

No!

Amy (21:44.296)

I have two children. They are about to turn 21 and 17. And so, you know, that's another interesting part of it too. I don't think my oldest would mind me sharing that they are now sober. you know, that's been interesting too. And to see someone embrace sobriety at under 20 years old is like, what would my life have been like? You know? Yeah. And I'm so impressed by that. And

I just think everyone's path is different and this was just mine, but I have to wonder if some of the way I've lived my life hasn't rubbed off in some way and Justin too. that makes me excited about their future and I don't know. So yeah, it's an interesting journey getting out of your comfort zone. And I think that's the curious part, right? If someone can ask themselves like, oh, what is really outside my comfort zone? And for me, was like showing up to events sober.

and I wanted to address having sex sober.

Kristin (22:45.242)

Actually, I was gonna talk about that because I have a friend or I wanted to bring it up to you and and open up your Thoughts on it because I remember chatting with a friend. This was like years and years ago He was like newly sober and he's like Kristen. Have you ever tried to have sober sex? And or like like that routine I was like, you know what and I was probably my 20s at the time and so I was like, huh

I don't know if I had at that time. Now I have and I'm it's amazing. But so I'd love for you to speak to any wobbles with that or like what's on the other side of it that can be beautiful too.

Amy (23:23.084)

mean, it is amazing, but I think that it took me a lot longer than that. I probably had along the way, but overall, no, I would have a drink or something like that. In my late 40s, was attending my first play party, which was sober, and I was pursuing sobriety at that point. I was like, my gosh, I have to attend this. It was one of Kimmy Inch's play parties. She's a friend and a friend of my show.

just an amazing woman and there's a lot to be learned in that space, but I pretty much had a nervous breakdown. I was like, I don't think I can do this. I didn't even understand like the options. I didn't really know myself well enough. I guess I was a late bloomer. You're much more further on the path, but I really feel like I didn't even understand what my options were and being sober and forced me to have to.

reckon with that. And I did though. And that's been its own beautiful journey. like just stepping into the more fullness of myself and being happy with myself, feeling okay with myself. And it's a place that pushes me, you know, not really anymore. Now I don't think about it.

Kristin (24:45.038)

about an exercise and like boundaries. I remember my first play party. was like, my wildest, I'm happy just watching. But I was like hummingbird heart. was like, why am I so nervous? I guess I kind of felt like if I'm going in there solo dolo, like, am I gonna feel like I'm being fed to the vultures type of thing? Even though it's like, I can stand in my truce and say no, but they was still coming up for like, the like, yeah. And like.

type of experience. Yes. Did you go to that solo or?

Amy (25:14.99)

No, Justin and I went together and like even getting there he was so irritated with me. We had a fight and then I called Kimmy and I was like, I can't do this. And she was like, just come to the opening ceremony and then you can leave. And I was like, okay, I can do that. So I think just breaking it down. I think that that's a big thing too is like things just get too big in your mind, right? And like when you just take life moment by moment, you can handle it all, right? And sobriety is the same way. And that's been an interesting.

apart from me. Like when I think about my entire life not having a drink again, I'm like, that's too much. It's just too much. And then when I think about the next hour, I don't want to have a drink. I'm good. Like I'm good right now. Today I'm fine. You know, and like I just, I love pulling life into the present. the book I gave you, Be Here Now. I have that tattooed on my arm. So I'll see it.

Kristin (26:01.933)

Right,

Kristin (26:06.03)

I'm like, it'll instantly bring me back to where my boots are too. I'm like, right.

Amy (26:11.566)

Right, like our senses, right? The sensual, the meaning just simply sensory, you know? Like that brings us back into the present and we tend to let all of life get away from us. Like, oh my God, sobriety for the rest of my life. Like I'm not even saying never, who knows? I may go to Italy and want to have a glass of wine. Yeah, and like that's, I'm okay with that. So what? And I may have another psychedelic journey someday. I don't know. And I'm not worried about it.

I just know that right now, when I sit with everything right now, I'm good.

Kristin (26:45.422)

I love that distinction because I feel like I can easily like get in my imagination and be like, wait, but I want to drink champagne and champagne. I want to have Bordeaux and Bordeaux. Even if it's just a glass or like, I've never done ayahuasca. Maybe I want to sit with that one day. I don't know. It kind of scares the shit out of me. like, yeah, instead of like, okay, working up all these scenarios of what if or possibilities or might not even happen, but it's like, okay, if we can just settle it down. Right. Right. Right back here.

Amy (27:12.494)

I know, and then just cross that bridge when you get there. And like, I just think that we tend to do this as humans, and I'm not sure why, right? Like, we just get like way ahead of ourselves and instead just handle the present moment. And that's a beautiful thing right now. And I think that that ordinariness and bliss has really started to intertwine for me.

and I'm able to appreciate life just in the moment. Like I was singing about this podcast as I was driving here and it was raining and I was like, you know what, just appreciating a drive in the rain. And the fact that I got here safe and not letting everything blow up into feeling like you can't handle it. Cause I think ultimately you do feel like you can't handle it when it gets too big. The sobriety, the desire to like,

Kristin (27:53.87)

I

Amy (28:11.328)

have a white Bordeaux in Bordeaux because I love white Bordeaux, but I'm not even in Bordeaux right now. I don't even really have any plans to go. So like chill out. And so it's just been an interesting journey, like really, because in the big picture, the dull moments of life that we can just enjoy and find bliss in, and I use dull in quotes, like dull, maybe ordinary is a better word.

Kristin (28:37.23)

Like simple or? Yeah, like I think that's something like my dad, I didn't consider the amount of wisdom he had whenever he was, I was like, dad, why don't you go to church or something? I was like young, you know? And he was like pointing to the legs, like this is my church. And like the nature and the good times with friends or the simple moments. And even whenever you're describing like a drive here and like the rain and getting here safely, it just like.

settles and calmed me in a way. And then I think about this quote that I heard one time, I don't know. I think it was attributed to Bob Marley, but I'd have to double check or fact check. That's okay. Some people feel the rain and others just get wet. And so to me, it like kind of goes right along with what you're saying. Yeah. And I remember like this woman, Lou in like Bali, she's like, you Americans, y'all complain a lot. Like we see the lucky side of life. She's like, okay, it's raining. it's raining. I just washed my car.

Or she's like, maybe it's saving me from an accident. That's right. Maybe it's putting me right to where I need to be. I'm going to meet someone and they're going to dramatically shift the trajectory of my life. You never know. You never know.

Amy (29:45.934)

We don't know. And like, I think there's just like an appreciation in that and just like relaxing into life. And I think that's kind of the point. Like at a certain point we're like, can I just, can I just relax and surrender to life and what I'm being shown in this particular moment, you know, rather than longing for something else or worrying about the next thing or thinking that it's not all working out. Cause it is, it is, it's going to be okay.

Kristin (30:14.222)

feel like the longing for me, what's come up in the last couple of months, is like the longing is prolonging in a way. Like a longing for a desire of mine. If I keep it longing or at arm's length or away from me, instead of like feeling it in the present moment or kind of like in that manifestation realm or like trusting that it is done, and now just that it'd be surprised and delighted along the way, then it's like, yeah, my yearning for it keeps it.

Amy (30:20.824)

What does that mean?

Kristin (30:43.534)

further away or takes longer time or something. don't know, that's why it just came up as you were speaking.

Amy (30:47.736)

True, like, I mean, that's a manifestation principle too, I think, right? The wanting keeps it away. so the more you're wanting, the more you're emphasizing that lack, the more you're calling in the emptiness, right? Or the lack thereof, right? Rather than just relaxing that your order is in with the universe and it's coming. No, I completely can relate to that. And one time I skipped over this, but I started a music career in my late 30s.

Kristin (31:16.878)

to hear what you're talking

Amy (31:17.698)

Yeah, please. Yeah. And I had some friends that were like, let's learn instruments. I mean, we live in Austin. And so we did. And it's a very long story, but I'm going to condense it as much as possible. like, I know what I was going to tell you about this. OK, so we started to like play out in Austin. We were just a bunch of 30.

eight-year-old women or 40-year-old women. so we had friends in bands that would ask us to open because like all our friends would come and be like, is this going to be a train wreck? Which sometimes it was. But we weren't that great, but we got by. And like, so we just started to become an original band and we were like, we should write songs, we should do this. And that's when things fell apart. But as we were doing that, we had big dreams and big ideas. And I remember

I had a deck that I really loved and I was like, oh, what is this all going to be? It's going to be, and I had stars in my eyes. I was like, we're going to take the world by storm. And I remember the card I kept getting was ordinariness. And I was like, no way, no way. And I went to a psychic even when I turned 40. And she was like, nothing's really going to happen with this band. And I was like, that's impossible. That's impossible. anyway, turns out they were right, right?

I had to sit in ordinariness when I didn't want to. like nothing did happen with the band. In fact, they ended up telling me they were shutting the band down and we weren't gonna do it anymore. And I was so depressed. I went and started my own band and then it turns out they were lying. They kept going.

It's a thing apparently. my God. As I continued my music. I so. It is. I continued my music career and I would tell people that like Johnny Gowdy, people in Austin, you that been in the Austin music scene forever. And they were like, I go, my God, you know, they told me they were shutting the band down, but it turns out they just went on without me. And they were like, yeah, that happens. And I was like, that's a thing. That's normal.

Kristin (33:18.668)

I could just have a real conversation.

Amy (33:21.521)

Right of passage. Anyway.

Kristin (33:23.214)

It's like a different style of ghosting. Totally.

Amy (33:27.078)

Totally, it was hardcore. Anyway, though, I kept getting that card and I just, as it fell apart and everything, I realized, like, I have to understand that ordinariness is beautiful. Like, there's people that live very ordinary lives and do we discount them as less than? Absolutely not. You know, I mean, you and I are sitting here putting out podcasts and, you know, putting out our voices and putting ourselves out there and...

Yes, but that doesn't mean it's any more value than anything else. And I was face to face with that in my life when I was expecting all these grand things. it just was a real lesson in learning to appreciate just doing the dishes, you know what I mean? Like just sitting with it.

Kristin (34:21.397)

Sometimes I envy, one of my neighbors, I'm like, he's just so chill and relaxed. And I'm like, how you do that? Like, what's that like? I just have so many, like, the dreams and ambitions and stuff. I'm like, but at the same time, like, I can appreciate a sunset and like, sure, a simple moment or pleasure. And at the same time, there's just like a sense of ease or just relaxed, like kind of gliding through the world that is just.

so simple and it's not necessarily what I would want for my life and it's not better or worse than like what you said, but I'm just like curious like, hmm. Yeah.

Amy (34:54.882)

Yeah, and it's just an interesting balance to find. And I think I'm happier now in sobriety. I've just noticed that the dopamine we talked about, but my moods have leveled out in a way where I still do have the highs and lows and I still do experience moments of real disappointment and longing. And I'm trying to build my Instagram right now and a friend of mine posted one thing and got 40,000 followers overnight. And I'm just like, you know.

Thank you, that's really sweet. I'm like, okay, it's just a coming back to letting go of all these things that we are longing for and finding that balance of like, I can be here now, right? Like I am happy in this moment and just driving in the rain or whatever it is. And that's the spot to find. And I think that sobriety has helped me understand

the path of returning to that quicker. Because it's not about not feeling that. But sobriety, and I mean, and I credit the psychedelics that I did, you know, like they helped me get to this place for sure. But giving up alcohol and really sitting in this space of sobriety for so long now, I can come back to that space of balance much quicker than I could before. And that payoff is fucking awesome.

Kristin (36:23.928)

You know? Yeah, I was just about to ask too, yeah, are there any, is it just like that rewiring of your mindset that brings you back to that moment of balance quicker or, you know, tools, practices, tips you have to like, you know, settle into like the ordinary or the- Probably all of it. Yeah. But I think-

Amy (36:41.27)

be remiss not to say that I don't, I'm not fucking with my brain chemicals to the degree that mid week after drinking on the weekend, that mid week I'm depressed and my chemical state is, is messed up. You know what I mean? And so I think there's something to be said for that. And I'm, I'm in a state, like I got really angry last night about something that happened to Justin that was out of his control, but I just was so mad for him.

And I was still, can still just pull that anger up, but I'm able to take a deep breath and really understand that's a human emotion, right? Can I come back to trusting? Like, just like you said, like, I don't know what that avoided for him. Maybe it avoided someone, he bought a tour bus. I don't know if you know. Bought a tour bus and he let someone else, a professional driver drive it and they wrecked it. And he's worked so hard on this bus just lately.

Kristin (37:29.112)

I saw some, yeah, the,

Amy (37:39.542)

It just made me so mad for him because he was finally in a good space and I'm just like, okay, I have to recalibrate. And I think just my recalibration is so much quicker, not only because of my tools, my meditation, right? Like that I'm able to trust and I've worked so hard on that, but also I'm not messing up my brain chemicals. like, I mean, that's just like a real thing. so.

alcohol really does mess up your brain chemistry. Psychedelic journeys do too. Like I've done big ones, ayahuasca, five MEO DMT, and toad medicine. And like that took three months for me to even understand the effects. It takes a while.

Kristin (38:25.934)

Yeah, I just came off of like a, I didn't realize that it was mescaline. Oh. Well, it was like, you know, it's called San Pedro slash Wachuma slash mescaline. was like, oh. Yeah, mescaline. Yeah, apparently I'm like, okay. this is like, I was like, I am Huntress Tess Thompson, cause this is kind of, I'm pretty sure how fear and loathing and leaving Vail Las Vegas or whatever starts. like, there's still so many things. like, aha, I was like recording something yesterday and a moment came up from.

Amy (38:35.502)

I didn't know that was mezcal.

Kristin (38:52.846)

Like being in Guatemala thinking about my dad or something, was like, oh, whoa. Like that was like a moment of an integration moment or something like, oh, noted. gotta like think about our pod or something that later. And how long? I mean, shoot, that was only like two or three weeks, three weeks ago, I think three or four weeks ago now that. Yeah. And by the end of that one though, I do remember being, and I'm going to probably have an episode about it, but I was just like, all right, I'm ready for this 12 hours. I'm ready.

Amy (39:04.216)

Go with that.

Kristin (39:21.816)

I didn't, but that's a good point. I didn't even realize like just how long elongated it could impact in a way.

Amy (39:28.728)

I there's a wanting that not to be the case. You know, you think, okay, I'll integrate in the next few days and it's just not that way, you know?

Kristin (39:39.47)

was like, why am I still feeling this shit and like literally physically hacking stuff for weeks afterwards? I had the intention of, I'm like, whatever is throat shocker that I need to get rid of and release. And there's a lot of things that came up around that, like physically and me telling the facilitator no and.

Amy (40:00.078)

Ooh, good for you. Yeah. Voicing it. Yeah.

Kristin (40:02.958)

I actually cried and broke down too, in a way of like, wow, I actually listened to myself and voiced it instead of going along to keep the harmony. Yay. Yeah. Yes. Because everybody was going to the sauna or the sweat. And I'm like, I just had an acupuncture the day before. She said I had so much heat in my body. I sauna on the weekly. I know myself. I'm I'm craving this cool brick right here. I just want to lay here on this cool brick. And so I just turned to her. like, sometimes the medicine is in the now.

Absolutely. And I was like, thank you for understanding. I don't know if she was understanding or not, but I'm like, I've just got to like set my foot here. she. Yeah. But then I just like, I'm so proud of myself for like saying the no. for sure. And it's one that's like kept coming back. I'm like, I thought I worked on that. Yeah. No, but then I'm like, wow. That was like still there. Remnants in a way. Yeah.

Amy (40:47.82)

What a lesson.

Amy (41:00.43)

Yeah, there are remnants. And, you know, my voice is my thing too. And I've had a background in radio for over 30 years and podcasts, several podcasts. And in 2018, when I was going through my second divorce, I was, recorded an album that I'd worked a year and a half on called Magic and it was a double album. And because I wasn't speaking up,

as my marriage was ending, I lost my voice. And I was like, holy shit, this is representative of me not speaking up for myself. And I just got sicker and sicker and I kept doing rounds of antibiotics and I couldn't get well. And my attorney was like, you have to speak up for yourself. And it was such a dark period of my life because I had to take legal action that I didn't wanna take, but.

She was just like, if you don't, then and something bad happens, they're going to say, the court is going to say, why didn't you do anything before? And I was like, fuck. And I really did. And here I wanted to release this album and perform and I couldn't, and I couldn't sing and I couldn't even talk really. And I had to heal that. Like you, I really had to understand that there was so much value in speaking my truth and my own authenticity and stepping up for myself.

even more than that, right? This is before that journey with Justin and this was the beginning of real psychedelic work for me and real self work because I'm questioning why I'm getting divorced again and then also, oh, oh, I see. I'm not using my voice. I don't even know who I am to say all these things. And so I coincided, I had to have a surgical procedure to heal this. Yeah, I had to have a sinuplasty.

right at that time was when someone offered and said, hey, are offering 5-MeO DMT. Do you want to do it? And I was like, no, but yes. And so I went in to do that with them. They were like a week apart, the sinuplasty and this, which probably wasn't the greatest idea, but whatever. And so I was pursuing healing aggressively. And I did the 5-MeO DMT with them. And right afterward, they were like,

Amy (43:22.528)

And I was crying before and I was like, I'm so scared to do this. Have you done it?

Kristin (43:26.926)

I think so, I don't think it was either right. was with a girlfriend of mine in Sedona. so in Sedona, it just says two and I don't know if I inhale it. Yeah, so I feel like I would know.

Amy (43:39.25)

You wouldn't know. It's the most intense, but it only lasts about 20 minutes, which is great. You can drive home afterward. afterward, I was so proud of myself for doing it. And then they looked at me and they were like, listen, we don't know why, but we feel like you didn't go far enough and we want you to do it again. And I was like, you've got to be fucking kidding me. I have to do that again? But they were right. So I'm crying. So I'm like, OK. So I do it again. And they were right. Like, I saw myself die. I saw all these triangles float up.

really your ego is gone. It's an ego death. And that was part of the healing. It took months and I thought, oh, this and the sinuplasty, I'm going to be better next week, right? I was not. It took till like, that was December of 2018. It took till like March of 2019 and I started to really heal. And it was frustrating, but at the same time, my voice started to heal. I started to see light again, really. I was in such a dark cocoon.

And so it just takes time. And I think that is such a good message for people too, like whether you're doing the psychedelics, whether you're pursuing sobriety, whether you're just looking to heal, like it just takes time. So try to just be in the space that you're in right now and understand that it's okay. It's just part of the process.

Kristin (44:56.99)

It reminds me too of like, do you know Alyssa Malhorn? I don't. she's like a healers teacher in the Austin community. I kind of stumbled across her when I first moved to town. And she's like, when you have those moments of like, you feel like you're hitting the same thing, she's like, think of it as like a spiral. It's like you're coming back to it with more tools in your tool belt and all that instead of like, God, this again? Yeah. And so just like that perspective. And I also want to like, kind of shift gears or veer into, I feel like you've been using your voice.

in a new manner, showing up more on Instagram and just like radiant authenticity. So I'm curious, like what was the catalyst for that or the intentionality behind it? What kind, cause it just feels like, I just love watching everything that you're I really appreciate that. like, it's so inspiring.

Amy (45:39.8)

So sweet, thank you.

Amy (45:45.262)

Thank you. It's one of those things too where you're like, why didn't I do this earlier? But I have a wardrobe room now in my house, which is kind of crazy, but I used to own a clothing store back in 99 to 2005 before I had my first child. And I've just collected clothes forever, and I just love clothes and fashion. And so I had all this stuff collected. We had an empty room, so I formed a wardrobe room. And so now I have an easy place to film, and I like it. It's fun.

And I think there was a part of me that was just like, I've never really shown up on social media, just doing it. And it pushes me again in a new way. It pushes me like, what if people don't like it? mean, there's one of my reels on Facebook went viral for all the wrong reasons. It was a pile on of men criticizing me. And I was like, whoa.

I mean, some friends have been like, I cannot believe your comments. And I was like, I know, it really like makes you go, should I stop? but at the same time, I'm like, you know what? No, this is growth for me in a whole different way. And it's been really interesting just to play with. And I think that, like we were talking about that curiosity, those growth spaces, for me, I treat it all as an experiment a lot of times. And I'm like, I'll just try it.

Everything's not gotta be a lifelong commitment. And so just try it as an experiment. I love that idea of treating things like an experiment. So I was like, let me commit to this for a year and just post at least every day. Right now I'm posting three times a day and see what happens. I am ambitious too. I do desire to uplift the world in my own way and to...

use the skills that I've worked hard to develop as an interviewer and as an MC or whatever to make money, right? I really do desire that. And so I was like, okay, well, if I'm the spokesperson for someone, what is it? It's living your best life at any age, their mindset shifts, whatever, living shiny. And so was like, all right, fine. I'm just gonna share that message and see what happens. And so that's really kind of what it is. I started January 1st and I was like, I'll just proceed and see what happens. But literally I have those moments where

Amy (48:04.366)

I get down about it, maybe it's comments that aren't very kind or maybe it's just focusing on the negative as we tend to do, or at least I do, and I'm a recovering ruminator. And so I just have those moments where I get down, but I bounce back a little bit quicker. Like I just did maybe a couple days ago, and I don't know if it was something I ate, lack of sleep, I don't know. And I was like, maybe I should just quit. Maybe I should just quit everything, you know?

And I just was like staring off into space, know, thinking I'm gonna quit. And then I'm like, am I really gonna quit? And I'm like, no. But I did play with it for a moment. And then I was like, no, I've committed to doing this for a year or so. Just keep going. And really, keep going is just a great mantra. Like keep going. We're gonna have a moment where it doesn't hit. And then you're gonna have a moment where it does. I don't know which one is harder to do the next thing after, you know?

Like, is it harder to do the thing after you have something that goes really well, or is it harder to do something after you do something that doesn't go well? They're both challenging in their own right, and there's learning to be had there. also not relying on numbers, you know, to dictate my state of mind and my happiness. Like, I posted one thing and I mentioned the word non-profit, because my husband founded a non-profit.

Kristin (49:12.622)

huh?

Amy (49:29.888)

And literally it was like nothing. It was like a hundred views. It was just, and I was like, those fuckers, you know, like they downgrade that content. And it was just like, I didn't understand for a minute. And then I listened to it I was like, I see. And so they just want entertainment. They just want, and I was like, I want to use my voice for good. And I want to get so solid in my own vibe and my own vibration that I'm not.

even spending time on those negative comments. I'm not even

wasting my beautiful energy on that, right? Like, can I get in that frequency and just trusting the process and the path and maybe I'm supposed to be learning what I'm learning right now and maybe it's to help that person. I don't know if you know Garen Jones. Garen has a really big platform, hundreds of thousands of followers and he's just an amazing guy. And I asked him to be on my podcast back when it was starting out, I don't know, years ago.

And he said, yes. And I said, why do you say yes? And he said, because I've been there. I understand what it's like. And he was just so real and understood humanity. And I was like, why aren't more people like that? But I think that we can forget that as we grow. And I was like, you know what? I don't ever want to be that person that forgets where I've been and forgets what it's like. I want to remember. I feel kind of high right now.

I feel kind of high right now. you feel high right now? Am I out of oxygen? Like, did I talk too much? I feel like...

Kristin (51:03.384)

Yeah

Kristin (51:07.788)

No, there's like little panels behind you and they're kind of like, woo.

Amy (51:11.374)

No, they are behind you too. No, I feel high right now. I think that's it though. Like I'm shocked too. Like in sobriety, I'm like, actually I fucking feel high.

Kristin (51:19.374)

Out of the time. flat. Yeah.

Amy (51:21.87)

I have a friend who's sober, Taylor Ellison, and she's awesome. She's a kind of a public figure. And I remember talking to her about psychedelics. She was like, I'm already like this. And I was like, you are like this. And like, think that's the thing, right? We want to like have those periods of like feeling like this. So don't know. You were like in that vibe with me. And I was like, oh my God, we're like.

Kristin (51:25.163)

Sounds familiar.

Kristin (51:45.814)

No, no, I'm like, do you feel hot? Yes, I do. And I haven't taken the macrodosis in my purse. But I'm like, just in case. Just Because going to do a writing session after this. No, that's interesting. There's like few things. I was like, oh, bookmark that, bookmark that, bookmark that. Yeah. Because the focusing, I feel like what we focus on amplifies, right? And it's like, you posted something the other day about how

this is gonna reference, I guess, the negative comments. You're like, I'm not available for that. And I'm like, I love that saying. But also I've had a moment once where it's like, you know what, I'm just gonna add like an inspiring idea. I'm just gonna show up in video. And then I did. like that one was like the one that got the most that I'd ever had before, but they came for me. And so I was like, butthole clinching moment where I was like.

Do I really wanna do this? I really wanna give back and then I've always wanted to inspire other people. I've aspired to inspire my entire life. But I'm like, this doesn't fucking feel good. Why aren't they throwing daggers, calling names? And then I'm like, okay, so I actually retreated for a while. I'm like, no, okay, I'm gonna reassess. like, actually it is something that I fucking wanna do. So I'm like.

Saddle up. And then it's also a good point too. had someone that, you know, just like to people like, how do you get guests? I'm like, I just either, get some pitches and then I also like, if I'm curious about somebody, if I like their energy and vibe, I'm like, Hey, I like, I want to have a conversation with you. I'm curious. I want to spread your message. I want to amplify you and like, I want to connect. But I did have someone recently say, no, they're like, Oh, I'm focusing on like bigger platforms or something like this. And I was like,

okay, interesting. So now I'm like, it just like kind of reframe something for me too, as far as like just always keep that humanistic element. And I love Courtney Johnson. I love how she's always saying like, the cringy, like get over the cringe. No one that's like where you want to be is gonna look any down to you or anything for going for it or starting or being fresh. It's only the other people that you probably wouldn't want to swap places with. Right, right. For the most part, so.

Amy (53:51.342)

Yeah, you know, and it's true, like, get kind of big for their britches sometimes, right? And I don't want to be like that. And I think that that's just the great takeaway from that. You go, right, okay, that's a good reminder for me that I know how that feels on the other side. And I think that's just such a beautiful way to, to like use that, so to speak, like, or just integrate, absorb that, right? You go like, I don't want to make someone else feel like that ever. And I understand how that feels. And

And who knows, you could be the next, don't know, whoever you want to be. Mel Robbins or something, right? Florence Given. And so like, it's just a really good perspective shift, you know? And just about the comments too. I was researching like dopamine recently, and I was looking at like cheap dopamine hits, and one of them was negative commenting on social media. And it was right up there with like gambling. I know, and I was like, holy.

Wow. This is a dopamine hit. And notice how you feel too when you want to clap back, because I do. I've typed out so many replies and then deleted them. And I can feel that little, like, charge. so those people are seeking dopamine. And it kind of gives you more compassion too. You're just like, And then just my go-to right there. is exactly. And my go-to is just like,

Kristin (55:14.2)

Smart machine.

Amy (55:18.306)

If you can get this on lock, thanks for the engagement. Thanks for the engagement. Thanks for the engagement, right? Like just put that in your head and like.

Kristin (55:25.676)

Engagement fairing or whatever.

Amy (55:28.078)

Yeah, and so just like, like it and it's really challenging not to say something back a lot of times I had one that's still like rolling the men just come out, you know, just just telling me to you know, shut up and go away and I'm like, what are you talking about? Like, and anyway, anyway, it's just its own lesson.

Kristin (55:39.885)

Yeah.

Kristin (55:51.75)

It is and it's so many good reframes that can be applied to so many different facets of Reframe, reinvention. I'm like, we got four minutes. Is there anything else you want to spill, share or offer?

Amy (55:57.174)

I love

Amy (56:10.606)

I just, before I go, I think I just want to leave everyone with this idea of getting really curious about your own spaces of growth. And when you notice something that perhaps is uncomfortable, like going out for drinks with friends and not drinking, you know, like just those small things can be a real learning space. And you can say, what can I possibly...

learn from this in my own life? How can I grow? And there's always growth to be had. And I just think a growth mindset is the most valuable thing that we can have. And so I just think it's an interesting thing to play with. We don't have to take it too seriously once again, treat it as an experiment. I mean, just can you just play with it and see what it opens up in your own life? My husband said, I want to

go to the party sober and have the most fun of anyone there. That's one of his goals. And I was like, man, that sticks with me. I do too, because I want to appreciate life and not long for something else. yet still have ambition, still grow, right? It's that delicate balance of getting to a place where I'm happy just where I am, but I'm also excited about the future.

Kristin (57:33.422)

And I love the playfulness element and treating it as an experiment. And you were saying that, I was like, that might be the title. Like, treat life as an experiment. don't know. It's only.

Amy (57:43.502)

Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. So enjoyable. I love how we met and thank you. This has been a real honor.

Kristin (57:45.93)

this conversation.

Kristin (57:50.963)

See you.