How to Build Business Systems Without Overcomplicating Everything with Trish Markel

If you think you “suck at systems” this episode is going to totally blow your mind. Trish Markel breaks down why systems aren’t one-size-fits-all, why your routines already count, and how the right system should make your business feel lighter…not harder!

In this episode:
0:00 Why “system shame” is so common for entrepreneurs
1:32 How Trish actually defines systems (it might not be what you think)
5:12 Why it’s okay if someone else’s fancy system doesn’t work for you
9:12 When you actually need a system and when you really don’t
14:01 The real job of a system: increase profit, reduce mental load, or improve client experience

The extended episode with a live Q&A for Playhouse members includes:

• How to automate your business without losing your personality
• Simple systems you can build with tools you probably already have
• The one question to ask before creating any system

Hang out with Trish:
https://www.instagram.com/tasklemonade

Hang out with Deanna:
https://deannaseymour.com
https://instagram.com/thedeannaseymour

🪩 Listen to the extended version when you join us inside The Playhouse + Get your first month for just $10 with the coupon code PODCAST
https://jointheplayhouse.com 

And if you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave a review and share it with a friend! It really helps us grow and keep the good vibes coming!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:24

Welcome to the Playhouse Podcast, where we hang out with the brilliant business owners inside the Playhouse that make this community so awesome. I'm your host, Deanna Seymour, graphic designer and founder of the Playhouse. Today I'm talking with Trish Markle about why so many entrepreneurs think they suck at systems and why that's probably not true. Trish is a systems specialist and is the owner of Task Lemonade, where she helps photographers and creative business owners streamline their operations so they can get their creative zest back. There's an extended version of this interview available just for Playhouse members where we dive into how to automate your business without losing your personality, simple systems you can build with tools you probably already have, and the one question to ask before creating any system. Unlock that extra content when you become a member at jointheplayhouse.com. All right, let's get started. Hey Trish, how's it going? It's going fantastic. Oh my gosh, I'm so excited. What'd you say? I said I'm glad to be here with you. Well, I'm glad you're here. I am so excited to talk about systems, even though I have a love-hate relationship with it, which I feel like maybe do you think most people have that? I'm just we're making up data right now. So I feel like systems are hard, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:32

I think it's it's being packaged as something that's like here's this one all fit one thing fits all, you know, way to work. And if you don't fit into that, you feel like systems are hard.

SPEAKER_00 1:45

Yeah, we feel like we stuck at them, but maybe oh my gosh. Okay, so before we get into everything, yes, let's just dive into like what it what how do you define systems? Like you're just you just said it's not like a one size fits all thing. So what what does the word systems mean to you?

SPEAKER_01 2:01

I mean, I think if you look at any business, right, there's all these categories. You have marketing, sales, you know, just basic financials. So every little department, if you will, there's a routine that you go through to manage that, or you like remind yourself, oh yeah, I need to infer my expenses, or I need to post on social media. But either way, there's definitely a system that has a specific purpose and it is, you know, going to help you get from point A to B. It's the same thing you do each time you do that, or you know, as close to you can as running a business allows you, but it it just works together to reach your goal or your what you want that system to do.

SPEAKER_00 2:43

Okay, you just said the word routine and it blew my mind a little because I've never heard anyone use the word routine when talking about systems. And maybe it's because of my love of jazz or size or whatever. But I'm like, okay, routine sounds fun. That sounds like a little dance routine, it sounds like uh, we're gonna do this, that we're gonna do this. Like now we're doing the chow cha slide. It's just the routine, right? To the left, to the left.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

To the left, to the left. Well, and that's a great thing, right? If it's a routine, it becomes a little more habit, like to use the system. Like you you see the benefits, you know, just like even if you have ways to signal your brain. I know when I work, especially like things that are off now because I have a toddler in the house, but I would light a candle when I'm coming to my office work, and it was like just this little ritual as that signal my brain, okay, now it's time to focus. So it it they they kind of also serve as that, depending on how you set them off and what you do.

SPEAKER_00 3:37

Yeah, now you're saying ritual.

unknown 3:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

So I feel like even like woo folks are like, okay, we can get down with a ritual, we can get down with a routine. I like it.

SPEAKER_01 3:46

I I had an ADHD coach for a while uh that I worked with, and she she didn't like routine because ritual was a little served her purposes for and and it was a business situation, and she was the ritual was her word of choice for the things we do routinely.

SPEAKER_00 4:01

We're gonna let the witches have their rituals. I'm gonna do a jazzer size routine, and people can come up with it.

SPEAKER_01 4:06

I prefer routine, yes.

SPEAKER_00 4:07

But and some people like systems, but systems to me, systems, and I don't know how other people feel, but to me, a system sounds really hard and convoluted in like a lot of steps. Routine or ritual starts to maybe even feel like part of a bigger system. Correct. Could that be true?

SPEAKER_01 4:25

I think that's 100%. It's like you have the Venn, not a Venn diagram. What is it when you have like a circle and one thing and there's all these pieces going out? Yeah, yeah, like a little when you're writing a paper or whatever. That that's kind of what your business is the center, and each piece has its own little system, and they all come to should all come together and work together. But you can't have they they don't. I think we just also are well. Let me just start by saying this the the systems, it's like there's so there's like this big industry telling you that you need a system, what type of system, this is the perfect system, this is how to make that work. So it it does feel bigger than it needs to be, and you don't have to have a system for everything, especially as a solopreneur. Like there's only so much time and energy you can have to build a system, to find a system that works for you, because that's the key, right? Like it's gotta work for you. And so you this whole thing of like those systems probably work great for one, you know, somebody, but they don't necessarily work great for you, even if they, you know, are free or cost money, like it doesn't matter. Or if everyone else you know is using a sauna, a sauna may not work for you. Like that just may not be how your brain works. So that that's kind of the big piece of systems is you really have to think about what works for you, like what you like about systems, what you don't like about systems. I think one time we were talking, you said, Well, I have a checklist. A checklist is a system. You know, a checklist is a system. You follow that each time you do the EA. You don't have to think about it. It unleashes the mental labor of what I do when this happens. Like I get a lead. Okay, I have a checklist, I send them an email, I uh we schedule a chat. Like it doesn't have to be an automated CRM, it just needs to be something where you don't have to think about how do I deal with this anymore. Like that's a system is should be reducing your mental labor.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

Okay, you I just thought of a system routine I do in my real life. So for my whole life, like my whole grown-up life, before I pack to go away, I make a list just like on a piece of paper, and I actually draw little squares next to each thing I write, which is funny because then my daughter, even when she was like four, would be like, Here's what I'm gonna do today. And she was like drawing little boxes and I was like, Oh my god, look at you stalking me.

SPEAKER_01 6:37

Um systemizing things.

SPEAKER_00 6:39

And now that I have kids and I feel like up the packing list got way longer, especially when they were like little and we were bringing like bottles and stuff. I put it on my in my Google Drive, and now I have that to pull up as like a starting point of like, okay, what games are we bringing? Or like, what do we need from the kitchen? What's next do we need? But I would have never in a million years called that a system. So I think I just wanted to say that example out loud as like we use systems in our own bucket systems. I know. I'm like, oh my God. I mean, people still and people make fun of me for it. It's probably like somebody who loves QuickBooks that we've made fun of on a different episode. But it just helps me because then I know when I'm actually packing, I just have to gather up the stuff because it's already. And I like it because I can add things, like I will make the list, yeah, days in advance, so that as I'm like watching TV, I'm like, oh, you know, we can't forget the da-da-da. And I can just put it on the list so that when I'm actually gathering up stuff, I know that I'm probably not gonna forget something. But like I said, I think in business, but that is this so funny. I'm also just realizing that I do this all the time with business. I'm like, yeah, yeah, but that's life. But then in business, you gotta have a system. Like, I'm gonna have to pay $9.99 a month for a tool that can help me do a system when really my little checklist, my little Google Doc for packing is what I ended up doing. The one we talked about one time was for a podcast episode.

SPEAKER_01 8:17

Like, okay, well, and you mentioned this perfectly. So the key for you finding systems is probably like thinking about what did you like about that? Like, why is that what makes it simple? One, it sounds like when you're in shutdown mode, you could still open up and just type in and add to the list without going through an elaborate thing, without seeing a checklist of things you haven't done. It's just that focus is in one separate document you're able to add to it, take away, mark something off when you're not really thinking about packing for a trip. To me, that's what I'm hearing, what you like about the system. So that is something that can carry over into developed systems for your business. Like keeping things in little box buckets sounds like a good thing for you. Not, you know, not having like it hound you or make you feel bad about what you haven't done, like it's just there, easily accessible. Like those are all key points to like keep in mind when you're trying to build a system within your business.

SPEAKER_00 9:11

Okay, so that's my next question. Okay. How do you know? Like, when do you need a system? Because you talked about us seeing like, like feeling a little bit of pressure of like, if you're a real business owner, you better have some systems and like here's what so-and-so is doing, and this new product is out. How do how when do we need a system? Like, do we automatically need a system because we have a business? Or when will you know if you need a system?

SPEAKER_01 9:32

No, I mean, I think the time to start building systems is when you find yourself doing a repetitive thing and you're like, there might be a way to make this easier, or like I if if I just had this written out, I wouldn't have to think about, oh, what did I do last time? Like, kind of looking at what you're doing routinely and how to build a structure around that that makes your life easier. Right.

SPEAKER_00 9:55

Like, for example, yes, I'm just gonna say that one time early on in my business, I was like launching a membership and I was like, okay, people use Zapier, Zapier, I don't even know how to say it. I'm gonna have to set up some zaps so when people sign up for this membership, it will automatically talk to Kit or do so like we spent so much time trying to figure out how to do a zap. And then I realized, oh my God, what if nobody even joins my membership? Why am I even what if I don't even have to add anyone?

SPEAKER_01 10:27

But you weren't at the point yet that you needed a system because it wasn't something that was happening regularly. Like that's the thing. So you you you you it probably ended up with a manual system where when people join, you did A, B, C, right? And you were trying to take out that manual system and just jump into when you don't even really know what you need to do A, B, and C when people join. So it's a lot of spent energy trying to develop a system because you felt like you should, because that's what all that marketing of all these perfect systems makes you feel like. And it and to be honest, like I think earlier when we were chatting before recording, someone else said, I feel like I should. And I talked to someone um during co-working, they're like, Well, I'm working on this because I feel like I should like shoulds are outside pressures going in, they're not things that you are putting on yourself. When you say I should, it's kind of a comparison thing. It's like you're thinking about what the what everyone or someone is telling you they need to do, or like this is the best system. Like use this system. Like everyone loves Notion. I cannot use Notion. It's a blank slate. I'll be there for weeks on end just making it look pretty. Like I can't even think about Notion. I cannot use a blank slate program. Like that doesn't work for my brain. So yeah, you've gotta, you've gotta look at what you're doing regularly and how to make your life as an entrepreneur easier. Then it might be time to develop a system. But you need to know what it is you're doing regularly. So building a system before you're at that step, like, here's what I want to do when leads come in. Here's how I'm gonna manage manage my finances. Every Friday I'm gonna do this, this, and this. And then on a month, I'm gonna run my sales reports. Like the you you have to kind of get in a routine and a pattern that works for you, and then you can have the system because you already have part of a system as you're doing it, right? But the idea of building systems, you can really spend a lot of time and effort building a system before you're ready because you feel like you should. And then a lot of times because you don't want to know what you need, you've spent time, money, and energy, and you're stuck with a system you don't like that doesn't work for you, and you're telling yourself you suck at systems.

SPEAKER_00 12:28

Yes, okay. Well, and also one of the reasons I think we all feel like we should do them is because I think we also like weirdly we see the value. Like people who are saying we should are like, they save time. Like once you do this, especially if they're talking about an automated system. And when you're a solopreneur and you're doing everything, systems seem really enticing because you're like, oh my God, if I could automate this, I wouldn't have to do it. But I think what I just heard you say is like it has to, like, in order to save time, in order to like invest the time to learn how to automate it, you have to be doing it enough that that automation would actually save you time because you have to spend time to set it up. And if you're not actually doing it that much, right? I mean, I got I'm not, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 13:11

Maybe I'm maybe I'm gonna have two pieces of the story, and I I wanted to make sure. Like, I think something that you just do twice a year, it's worthwhile to write down and make note of what you did. So when you go to do it again, you remember, like, oh yeah, this is how I did this. Like, make a video, write it down, like either way, like once on the second time you've done it or and and that and that can just be like a flexible reminder for how you started and like be an ever-growing thing because you only do it every now and then. But then you have your your regular things that you find yourself doing all the time that, yeah, you want to create a system or some options to take off that load for you. I mean, automate can be scary and sometimes aren't even, you know, again, it goes back to how often, how what time and energy are you spending? What is your profitability? Like knowing that, then like, okay, maybe it's time to automate some things. I think the ideal system, like the thing to keep in mind is you need to know what the purpose of your system is. Like, is this system designed for me to increase productivity? Is it designed to uh help me improve my client experience, uh, keep me organized? It can be multiple of those things, but you need to know what you want the system, what the end goal of the system is. Like, for example, I sell a delegation dashboard, which is designed for you to put your information in there and then be able to delegate it to a virtual assistant or a system specialist like me. But it's it's basically a business dashboard, right? But the it's designed in a way because the goal is to delegate, that the information is set up and connected in a way that it's easy to delegate. It's not necessarily just for a business owner to reference like where this these things are. It's there because you want to delegate. If does that make sense, like what I'm saying? That there's so it works with an ideal system, it works with how your brain works, um, one that you will use, and you know what the purpose is so that you can build it or like adapt it to how you need it and what you want the goal to be. And then automations kind of come into that after the fact, right?

SPEAKER_00 15:11

Yeah, I threw automations in there, but I just always think, oh, systems, automation. And then that's when I start to make it too complicated.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

And like you're saying, it can be part of a system, but a system doesn't have to be automated, nothing has to be automated, like it all depends on your bandwidth, really. Like what and again, like profitability, you know, time is money. So how much time are you spending on things that could be automated? That that is something to think about, you know. And if you aren't incorporating the time you spend, this is an another thing that I look like. If you aren't incorporating the time you spend your hourly rate into that service, then your profitability gets really murky and you you start to feel overwhelmed and just like, oh, why am I even doing this kind of thing?

SPEAKER_00 15:53

Because you're spending all this time, but it's not incorporated into your pricing structure or or how you're so like you're saying, getting better systems so you can do the work faster actually gives you in a sense like a raise. Like you make more money because it takes you less time to do the task.

unknown 16:08

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:09

I mean, it's just important to incorporate that aspect of the hours that you spend doing a certain task should be also part of how you're looking at what you're charging for services. Like it's all it is all interconnected in in a lot of ways.

SPEAKER_00 16:23

So yeah. And like if I was saying I have like another checklist for podcasts, but it felt like it felt like podcast, like I was it was taking forever. It was a mix a little bit from me taking breaks of podcasts and then getting back to it and being like, wait, what do I do again? When do I to where I was like, okay, I need a system for reminding myself, like you were saying, like what the routine, like something if you only do it a couple times a year. And then also just to make it like eat faster and easier, because I was like, Oh, I'm spending way too much time on my podcast, which is probably why I kept taking breaks. And then the system feels like, oh, okay, I just I know what to do.

unknown 16:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:58

Look, the the the number of entrepreneurs, it's like about a third of the of entrepreneurs have ADHD, right? Like, which the general population is only three to five percent. So, and then like I'm like late onset, probably triggered by menopause. So I'm I definitely I don't have a diagnosis, but like I have all the traits, and like I said, I I talked to an ADH coach, worked with her. So are systems built for the way your brain works? Like, are you ADHD? Do you process things differently? You know, like all of those things need to be considered when you're looking at these pieces that you're you know building a business. And you know, it it's it's you've got to give yourself grace to like start with the system, adapt it as you grow, or adapt it as you need to make it work for you, because that's really key, right? Like sometimes you just feel like oh, this is how the system was sold to me, this is how it's supposed to work. Why do I need to change it? But you need to change it because you need to use it because otherwise it's not it's not helpful. Like it's just brain, you know, it's just stuff that's just taking up more energy than it's giving you.

SPEAKER_00 18:04

Yeah. Okay. Cause that's the key to a system, also, which we've talked about before, using it. Like if I've been guilty of like making something look super cute and super cool and like have the best intentions in the world, and then like never open it again. So I think that goes into what you're saying. It feels like, oh, I just need to buy this uh template or this thing, this person. Yeah, I need a system and you're just gonna like buy it. We need couture systems, like we need to build our own systems just for us. Okay, or you can start off the rack, but then you might have to do some alterations, right?

unknown 18:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 18:41

I mean, you uh Google is great, like the Google worksheets, good. I mean, Google Sheets, Google documents, like those are ways to create a system. You can create a CRM inside of a Google Sheet, like you don't have to, you know, pay or so, like even like you were saying you mentioned before you were using a thing to help you with networking. Like, and it sounds like the real downside of that was the way the reminders were working because they were making you feel like it's like a negative. A lot of people feel that way with like a to-do list when they email you and say, Don't forget you have to do this. It's just like, especially an HD brain can shut off as soon as they're like told they have to do something. They're like, Yeah, no, I'm not doing that now. Why are you telling me to do that? You said I need to do that. Nope, not happening. So you you know, you've gotta okay, you've got to eliminate the reminders when you're ready to work or when you have focus time set aside for that, then you go in and you just look at what what is past you or what you need to do. Yes, that might be a way to adapt a system to make it work for you.

SPEAKER_00 19:37

Yeah, and I think for me, I've learned over the years that like the less bells and whistles for me, I think, the better, which it seems like it should be the opposite. But I get lost in the bells and whistles and I want to make it look cute and I want to do all the things, and then like I spend so much time doing that, and then I never use it. So I think you are spot on. I love what you said that we don't even we might not even need a system. Like, take your time, see where you might need them, and then don't feel like you have to put some sort of template on yourself, like just figure out a simple system. And I think as as you keep you get to keep refining it. It's not like you're just gonna get a system and like you're like didn't nailed it, done, right?

SPEAKER_01 20:17

Yeah, I mean, and then then uh give yourself grace, like let yourself change or say, like, oh, this doesn't no longer works for me, or this isn't working for me. Like, know thyself too. Like before you start with that shiny new thing, no, oh, this is this is exactly what I don't use. I had this before, something similar.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

And we can start saying, because I know we are not the only people, because we were talking about it before we hit record, but like, I mean, not you, you don't suck at systems. And we obviously we record these in the playhouse. I was just saying, like, I was like, wait, this is gonna sound like you said it too. But I just what were you gonna say?

SPEAKER_01 20:49

No, I was gonna say, but I have systems that I don't fully use to their potential either. I'm busy, I'm doing a hundred things, life is chaos. Like, but I have I've I have found ways to adapt and like make it work, but you know, it's still it's an ever-ending for the way my brain works, a never-ending battle uphill to like make sure I'm like using things to their fullest potential in the way that I want to use them.

SPEAKER_00 21:13

Okay. Well, I just didn't want to put words in your mouth, but since we record these in the Playhouse, me and some other folks here were saying we suck at systems. And after talking to you, I want to flip the script and say, when we feel like we're about to say we suck at systems, we should say this system sucks for me. Like it's the system that's not working. We are good at systems, that's just not the one for us. Yeah. So I love that.

SPEAKER_01 21:38

Well, and I know we're like running out of time, but like I realized I needed something visual. So like a visual can ban board instead of a like I I try to do both, but like I need something visual so I can see my list of things to do. I can move them so I get the dopamine complete. Yeah. So that's a factor.

SPEAKER_00 21:55

I love moving them too. So maybe that ADHD thing. Yeah, okay. Trish, this was awesome. Thank you for freeing us. I mean, I'm really excited to, I'm gonna stop saying if anybody anywhere in the wild hears me say I suck at systems from now on, remind me that I don't suck at systems. That system sucks for me. So I'm not even saying the system sucks, period. I'm just saying it sucks for me.

SPEAKER_01 22:17

And you already have systems you're using that you're great at.

SPEAKER_00 22:19

Like, look at that packet list. Yeah, I know. But see, and I feel like I don't want to say I feel embarrassed because obviously I just told the whole world about it on my podcast. But I before you were talking, never even thought of that as a system. So I think I just want to say you can do whatever system you want. So, Trish, I think you just freed, you just blew people's minds about systems, and I love it. So tell the people where they can keep hanging out with you online. Um, at Task Lemonade on Instagram.

SPEAKER_01 22:46

Um, fun thing we are on Spotify. I have a couple playlists on there, that's kind of fun. I mean, that's a big thing. You sign up for our uh little zesty emails because we give productivity and business stuff in there. Some of it's focused on photographers because that's my niche client, but a lot of it is just general stuff, like anything I find that we're doing in Google that everybody should know about or whatever. That's kind of what our newsletter is about.

SPEAKER_00 23:13

I love it. All right, Trish. Well, thanks for hanging out with me. Yeah, always a pleasure. Trish and I kept the conversation going inside the playhouse, including a live QA where we got into how to automate your business without losing your personality, simple systems you can build with tools you probably already have, and the one question to ask before creating any system. Unlock the extended episode when you join us inside the playhouse. Get your first month for just 10 bucks when you use the coupon code podcast. Learn more at jointheplayhouse.com, and hopefully we'll see you soon. Learn more about Trish and Task Lemonade by clicking the links below in the show notes. See you next time.