All Revved Up
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All Revved Up
#005: Finding Your Voice, Embracing Your Path: A Conversation with Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer
In this episode, Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren sits down with Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer to explore his journey from an unexpected spiritual void to becoming a New Thought minister.
Rev. Dr. Overholtzer shares his personal story of rediscovery, reflecting on his roots in Christian Science, a 20-year break from spirituality, and the profound experiences that reignited his purpose.
Listeners will gain valuable insights into how spiritual principles can influence everyday life and even professional careers. Rev. Dr. Overholtzer discusses merging his design career with his ministerial work, finding gratitude amidst challenges, and cultivating spiritual balance. He also provides thoughtful perspectives on key New Thought principles, such as the law of cause and effect, the divinity of humanity, and why “everything is unfolding perfectly.”
The episode concludes with a lighthearted lightning round where Rev. Dr. Overholtzer shares his favorite spiritual metaphors, dream career aspirations, and reflections on creating a sanctuary both in life and in the home.
Key Topics Discussed:
- Rev. Dr. Overholtzer’s spiritual journey: from Christian Science roots to New Thought ministry.
- The importance of finding and using your voice in unexpected ways.
- How Science of Mind principles apply to professional life and challenging clients.
- Exploring the intersections of design, beauty, and spirituality.
- Addressing common questions about New Thought philosophy, including balancing spiritual truths with practical realities.
- Embracing the evolution of New Thought centers and moving beyond traditional constructs.
Takeaways for Listeners:
Rev. Dr. Overholtzer reminds us that the spiritual path is not always linear but unfolds as we take each step forward. His message encourages us to embrace our unique voice, find balance in life’s demands, and integrate spiritual principles into every aspect of our lives.
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Namaste.
Welcome everyone. This is Rev Dr Thor Chalgren. On today's episode of All Revved Up, my guest is Rev Dr Eric Overholzer, a New Thought minister whose journey to becoming a minister is anything but conventional. Eric grew up in Christian science, left organized spirituality for over 20 years and then rediscovered his path by taking one small step after another. His story is a reminder that life often calls us in ways we don't expect. In our conversation, eric shares how he learned to use his voice in meaningful ways, not just in ministry, but also in his career as a designer. He revealed how he helps clients shift their focus from stress to gratitude, which got me thinking about how much our perspective shapes every part of our lives. We also dove into some big questions, like how new thought principles can help us understand life's challenges, whether they're personal struggles like a health diagnosis, or even historical events that may shake our faith in the idea that life is unfolding perfectly. Eric's perspective gave me new ways to consider these teachings in my own life. And finally, we explored the future of New Thought and Eric's vision of spiritual centers evolving beyond their traditional boundaries to meet the changing needs of the world. His insights left me both inspired and challenged to think about what's next for all of us.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren:Here now is my interview with Reverend Dr Eric Overholzer. Eric Overholzer, dr Eric Overholzer, welcome to the show today. How are you? I'm doing.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:great Thanks for having me. How are you?
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren:I'm good. Yeah, it's great. I'm super excited to have you on the show today. I want to start with your sort of background and your history. Tell me about your journey to become a New Thought minister. Was it kind of a straight path from foundational classes to practitioner to minister? Like when you started this journey, did you know that it would end up with you being Reverend Eric? Or tell me what was your journey and experience like getting to where you are now?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:It's a great question. I never anticipated or planned to become a minister. It was a path that just kind of presented itself. I just took the next step and the next step and the next step. But if I really look back, it's not surprising.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:I grew up in metaphysics. I grew up going to Sunday school, to Christian science Sunday school. That was a root foundation of mine and for many different reasons I left that path, left that life, and then I went into a big void. So in that void of probably 20 years where I didn't really feel like I had a connection to spirituality or to God or to religion, I realized that there was something that just felt like it was missing. There was something that a longing of wanting to be remembered. We talk about Global Truth Center remember who you are. So I think there always was something that wanted to be remembered, a state of remembrance, and fell into foundations classes and it was the first time I'd ever really officially studied any spirituality. I'd read some self-help books and some philosophy, but it was the first time I ever really took courses.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:Yeah, so I started taking those courses and when it came to practitioner training, at one point I was longing for a community and I think that was a big part of who's my tribe and, ironically, I had thought that maybe my tribe would be a part of the gay men's chorus. You know phenomenal community of people and you know thinking like oh, I sang in high school and then, through college, had an audition for anything for 20 years, went there and just tanked it like full-on the singing part, the singing part it was almost like a panic attack where I could feel my entire spine radiate heat and just freeze, and like there was no relationship between my voice and getting it out.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:And simultaneously there was that part of me that had really come to the knowing that there's something for me to say, there's something for me to put out into the world. And I thought me finding and using my voice would be among the gay man's course in that community. And it was as if the universe said yeah, no, that's not how you can best use your voice. And right at that point is when the practitioner course sort of opened up for me and I just kept taking class after class after class and realizing maybe this is a place where my voice can be used and expressed. Yeah, I went through that whole thing without intending. There was no direct intention of my end goals to be a minister, it was just the byproduct of it and finding ways to what's the next step yeah, like what to find and use my voice being on this podcast with you.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:Yeah, this is a brand new territory for me. Never intended that, but I appreciate the opportunity to use my voice sharing the dialogue and the conversation.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren:I want to follow up on two things you said. You mentioned that when you were growing up, your sort of spiritual background was Christian science. For people who maybe don't know, how would you say Christian science is alike with science of mind and new thought. I mean, I have a sense of it, but I'm curious. I haven't met someone or talked with someone who grew up in that background. What would you say is similar to what we teach?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:It's very similar. It's not part of the actual new thought community catalog but it's a kissing cousin, it's a very close. Mary Baker, eddie was on the forefront, you know, had some physical healings through Phineas Quimby. There's a whole narrative of that. But it is new thought, a little more fundamentalist. You know of what differentiates the greatest portion of people associated with Christian sciences.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:Oh, they're the ones that don't believe in doctors, they're the ones that don't believe in medicine. So I grew up really a faith base If something, if I was sick, we call the practitioner and or we would pray, or the combination of the two, and we didn't go the route of the doctors, but core, fundamental principles.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:You know my mother developed Alzheimer's at a very young age and I remember it was probably my first act of ministry and even realize that I was the one that was with her when the doctor said you've got dementia, there's something going on with your brain. We don't know what it is.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren:At that point.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:my mom was probably 52, 53 years old my age and I remember driving her home from the doctor's appointment and she turned to me and she said am I going to die? I said, yes, At some point we in this, we're all going to die. But what the doctors are saying? There's something wrong with your brain. It's not working the way that they would like it to. And I need you to remember that that's not your mind. And having a beautiful moment because your mind is infinite and rich and full and vibrant and dynamic, that's not your brain. They're not saying your mind is. They're saying your brain is not cooperating.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:And when I look back I'm like, oh, I was ministering that. It had probably been about a 10, 12 year, maybe even longer gap since I've been to a christian science church service. I hadn't been to agape or any of the new thought, science of mind things, and yet in that moment there was that reservoir of sort of truth that I just knew and to be able to speak it. And it was really from that point that I really started doing my personal development, realizing, even in that moment with my mother, like it was activating something within me of what's the deeper truth you know what's the higher truth, would you say.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren:It's a fair assessment of christian science. You know to your point of. Sometimes people will. If they only know a little bit. They're like, oh, that's the, the spiritual tradition where you don't use doctors. But if you go back to Mary Baker Eddy's original intention, it was that you don't need doctors because the mind is that powerful and in theory, like on this Christ consciousness level, you can use your mind to heal anything. Is that a fair assessment of the sort of overall philosophy of Christian science?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:Yeah, I think that's a very fair assessment and accurate. And I've experienced those types of healings of like just really how I focus my mind and the entire new thought movement, focus my mind and the entire new thought movement. You know, if you go back to Anton Mesmer, you know who's the first one, mesmer Mesmerism, you know. First one really tapping into hypnotism, realizing, oh, there's a way that you can override, through the use of the mind, shift things in the body. And Phineas Quimby is like well, if the mind's that powerful, can we turn to it for healing, can we heal a physical condition? And that's really how the New Thought movement continued to progress.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:The difference between Science of Mind and most New Thought movements and what I grew up with, is we believe in prayers and pills. Is we believe in prayers and pills? You know it's like the God. If this God creative, healing, vibrant intelligence is present in everything, then it's in the pills, it's in the doctors, the surgeon, as well as the practitioner and this person that's going to pray. It's in everything. In Christian science we didn't turn to the doctors because the philosophy was to just really know the truth and just rely on spiritual prayer and spiritual wisdom to override or rectify or bring into true coherence of its purity.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren:Well, you have this career in design, and very successful career, I would say you probably have dealt with a fair number of exacting and demanding clients and getting people what they want. Can you, as you look at that career, can you see or there are instances where you go, ah, this where science of mind and understanding how to to use your mind properly Can you see in places where that's helped you in that career?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:You know I used to think that I was walking two different paths. I was, I had my spiritual path and I was on my ministerial studies. You know that path. And then there I had my career and my goal intention was like can I merge them together?
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren:And the truth of the matter is we're always just walking one path.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:We may think that it's two separate paths, but my ministry science of minds, philosophy has infused every aspect of my life. You know one of the things that an immediate thing that I could think of, of how science of minds has influenced or impacted my work.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:It turns into a game. You know, we've had a client where all they see is the negative. I hate this, this is the wrong color, this is it's not right, it's not wrong. And so I'll say you know, we're going to play Eric's game. You need to find five things that you like and appreciate about the room, the piece of furniture, whatever it is, and then from that place, then we'll shift to the things that we'd like to shift your attention.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:So in some ways it annoys them at first, but then they actually really appreciate it because it has taught them how to get into the atmosphere of gratitude and ultimately, realizing from a quantum perspective what we put our attention on, grows. Many of these clients, you know they can only see the stress and the fear. So that's what their experience has been. You know where, when it comes from a loving perspective and all that is right, like to get them in that atmosphere, then the things that still need to be addressed will be addressed. But it's now a molehill rather than Mount Everest. I was going to say you know the other thing that you know the conversation, where that is infusing, I think, this philosophy. There are times where the client and the magnitude and the importance of they're throwing a party and you know, god forbid, that throw pillow's not there and they want that pillow because they're having a party. And I've been known through the years to say if that throw pillow or that side table is going to ruin your party, then A you should rethink your guest list. And then I would say because we're not curing cancer, and they started laughing. But then I would always because we're not curing cancer and they started laughing. But then I would always throw in like but what if we are?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:And ultimately, what's at the heart of what we're doing here? We're creating a environment that, when you walk in, shifts the energy that you are. You know. So, when you're in the presence of beauty, whether it's a piece of art, a song room, a poem in nature, something shifts within us and for me it's like beauty is one of those bridges that gets me from my head into the heart space. And when you're in coherence between the head and the heart, that bridge between the two, that's where we're open for inspiration and intuition to really just drop in. It's on that exhale Wow, this room is beautiful. And in that moment, who knows, maybe you will be curing cancer.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:You know, to me it's like the importance at the heart of what my industry is, of art and beauty and interiors. That's also at the heart of science and mind and philosophy, you know, of really dropping into the heart space. Can we put aside all the negative things in life and like really just exhale into the truth? And that's the work of getting developing the muscle to get back to that place quicker.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren:Let's look at a couple of the things that we say often and I think in our teaching, and I think sometimes people are like yeah, but like. To me, this is these are always the yeah, but like people go, that sounds good, but tell me, is it? Is it really practical? So I'm going to, we're going to just jump through a couple of these real quick and and see and get your take on them. So we do say this idea of the relative is the absolute at the level of the relative. And people can hear this and they might argue that, like an unhoused, appearing to be mentally ill person that they don't have the ability to choose. So why are they choosing to live in that relative level? I mean, we are saying that that person is the absolute, they're just choosing to live at that relative level. So how would, as you, think about that, how do we reconcile that idea that someone who doesn't seem to be able to have the ability to choose is in fact, in some way choosing that experience?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:Are they consciously aware? Are they consciously choosing, or is there just sort of that unspoken, because we're always at choice? That's one of the things I love about this philosophy is that it remembers the recollection of we're always at coalition From this place.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:We're at choice. Can we ever really be a victim? Is someone that is homeless? Are they a victim of the outside situations and conditions of the outer world or of their life? And according to this philosopher, no one can be. There are no victims.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:I think there are differences. There are different notes on the musical scale, there are different frequencies and there are different levels of thought and patterns that resonate at different levels. So, going back to the relativist, the absolute, pema Chodron, she talked similar concept of I am blue sky. Everything else is weather, so that there is that place of the absolute. There's the perfect, clear blue atmosphere. That's the truth. It's always there, it's always present. However, the rest of it is weather.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:A lot of times in my life I'm walking through a snowstorm or a drought or a windstorm, or there's turbulence. There's different weather patterns. That is my experiential of where I'm at. That doesn't mean that I'm not always connected to the perfect blue sky. So I think a lot of it is just what our life experiences and what we're able to see and experience when we're in a denser energy, when we're in a denser atmosphere in our minds, then it creates a different experience. You know the same thing with like I've gotten into it with a different mind who had a cancer diagnosis and she, sort of like you and your metaphysical people, are now going to say I caused my own cancer, right, you know? And she was in that place of like, how dare you? That just pisses me off right, and trying to have that conversation, I would always say, well, you are where you are at right now. You know how it showed up, you know you can blame yourself or not blame yourself, but if you can bring it to right here, right now, here's what's at hand.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren:Yeah.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:And life is always unfolding perfectly as I've come to really embody, then it's a perfection in the cancer diagnosis. How is this? And if I really believe that at the root of it this is a gift or this is something, I need to look at it differently. So I always would start with can I see the God in that as well? Can I start with loving what is? Can I love the state of this cancer cell?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:Thank you, thank you for coming into my life. Thank you for bringing back to a heightened level of awareness and connection with my body. I see you, thank you, bless you, thank you, thank you, thank you. I'm at a heightened awareness. I'm more cracked open because you came into my life, a heightened awareness of who I am and seeing where I was maybe out of harmony with my body. Thank you. And from that place it's almost lovingly now I can release it, because now my mind and my heart is really clear. This came in. And then a heightened awareness that cracked open to reconnect and realign and remember the strength and the power and the vitality of life.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:So that's how I would handle something like that and you know, with my friend with a cancer diagnosis, the same thing with the homeless as well. It's like I'm not saying it's good, but it's god. And I think that the other thing that comes in to you know, earnest homes would say we turn away from the condition in treatment, you know, but that doesn't mean we don't look at it, we don't acknowledge it to get because there's a lot of good information, but when we're really turning to prayer, really turning to our highest spiritual resonance, we need to turn away from that condition and just really see and speak and know and resonate with the truth.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren:That's one of the things that I think that with Dr James Mellon, yes, you look at the condition before you treat. You want to understand it. You want to understand what the conditions are, what the beliefs are behind it, Like why you're thinking this, why this has happened, but that once you start to treat the condition, you're done with it. You know it's interesting because we are the two things that we're sort of science of mind is known for is the divinity of man and the law of cause and effect. And it occurs to me that maybe, going back to that question of the person who is on the street, maybe mentally challenged, maybe the law of cause and effect is that they're not choosing it right now, but at some point in the past, when there was an ability to choose consciously and rationally, there were choices that were made that this is now the effect of, and so, on a long timeline, they are now living the effect of that cause. Yeah, if you look at smoking, smoking is a cause that will sometimes lead to an effect of lung cancer.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:Have you always only ingested healthy, organic food? Have you had soda? Have you had like? Those are small little choices that for a lifetime, that well gosh, those actually all could have been small causations to ultimately get to a more toxic, toxic um state in the body which is, you know, inducive for cancer. So are you blaming? Did I choose to get camp? I'm like no, but the small little increments.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:I have a thing on my bulletin board that the word because you know so, when I think of law of cause and effect, I've gone through not as much now, but I've gone through many parts of my life of using the word because, well, this happened, because of that.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:Using because as an excuse or a reason to justify, well, the reason I'm not a success is because this happened or the economy, the reason I'm not a success is because this happened or the economy.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:So, using because of living from the effects, and I think that's one of the things so much of our world, we live exclusively from the effect and we create and we live our life from that. But when I break down the word because, it's because we actually have this opportunity and the remembrance of, we are actually true first cause. We are the cause of every effect. So the moment that I can shift my mind from oh, this happened to me because of that, no, actually I'm going to be the cause to create, to shift an entire new chain of thoughts and beliefs and outward things. So I think that's one of those things of the divinity of man, the law of cause and effect. For me it's to remember stuff like oh, no, it's, I am first cause. It goes back to Ernest Holmes. There's a power for good in the universe greater than ourselves, and you can use it because you are it, as Dr James Mellon added in?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:because you are it, we are cause. The web of quantum entanglement, a web of all information, of all possibilities, potentialities that ever has existed, exist and ever will, are all fully the tapestry of entanglement that's already made and done. It's pliable. We just need to lean into it.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren:That's one of the ones that we sort of, I think, get very often. The other one is Dr James will often say like one of his spiritual truths is this idea of everything is unfolding perfectly, no matter what, and often we can look at things going on in the relative and go really, is it really like? And he's had experiences in his life that have caused him to look at that and really understand it on a deeper level. But you know, having been in classes, the one question that always comes up you're not going to do it, having been in classes, the one question that always comes up.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren:You're not going to do it, I will, but it actually is. I don't want you to answer that one, and of course we all know, like any minister knows. The question that's going to come up is well, what about Hitler? Like you know? How do you explain and what that the spirit of that note is? If everything is unfolding perfectly, no matter what, which it is, how do we then make sense? Because we want, we're trying to discover meaning, we want to like that sounds great, I want to believe that. And how do I get to the place where I truly believe it, despite all the things going on in the relative, and certainly these days, you know, we could look around and see lots of relative things that many people would not like. So how do you Some of my relatives.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren:Yeah, right, okay, so, and maybe I don't know, I'll let you answer the question in a second. I'm just going back to Hitler and going law of cause and effect. There may be some point in his life where he there was some cause that that led him down to the path, and then and then, in the same way, everyone who followed him led them down the path, like when that question would come up in ministerial class. How did you think about that and how did you get to a place where you could kind of have a sense of what that answer is for you?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:I'm going to try to answer that without going to spiritual bypass. And in terms of life unfolding perfectly, I think there are times and to differentiate of knowing something and making sense of something. So there are times where I know life is unfolding perfectly. In today's climate, hitler, you know, big economic crashes, this is life unfolding, a forest fire, whatever it is. There are times where, like, can I just like? I know that, like I in the depths of my soul, but I can't make sense of it and my logical mind wants to make sense and rationalize for it, and sometimes making sense takes a while to do it. But the knowing, there's a knowing within me that is immediate, that's tempting. So when I think of the big questions, the answer for Hitler, I know that there is a knowing and I can't wrap words around.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren:What comes to me is I hear you saying that, like in your heart, you know that life is unfolding perfectly. Your mind is like okay, but can heart, can you explain that to me, cause I need to understand it in some logical way? And the heart's like right, I can't right now. I know it, but I can't give you the words that you want. You just have to trust me, right? I?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:remember a handful of years ago, when I went to Ghana, in Africa, and I was with a group of people from Agape that I was traveling with and many older African-American women.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:I remember walking down the riverside singing spirituals, their ancestry, this was the last path of when they were captured and they were being bathed before they're taken to the slave dungeons. And here we were retracing, re-walking that path. They're singing these beautiful songs and I remember at that time how can slavery be life unfolding perfectly, how could that this be life working out exactly how it's meant to be, of generations of people enslaved and the torture and everything, and one of the things that I just recall in that moment, going down to the riverbed and then going to slave, into the dungeons, and where we chanted and prayed, and I just remember someone saying like, oh, we are the answer to our ancestors prayers, like it took how many hundreds of years for these older, free black African-American women to come back to their roots, free like the, the physical, the, the manifestation of what so many generations before had prayed for. You know, and and ultimately realizing, tapping into right here, right now, I am the answer to, to so many of the prayers that were asked and prayed upon.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:Yeah, and I think that's even trying to bring it back to the Hitler thing of. Did that create the perfect atmosphere for great realization and growth? Generations down the road to look back and like we are who we are because this man lived and existed.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren:I'm reminded of I think this is roughly right that former President Obama talked about the moral arc of history bends slowly. I'm paraphrasing, but that idea that it is a long arc and it may not go as fast as we want, but it does bend. Well, let us now jump into the lightning round we're going to have a quick questions.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren:They could be yes or no, no wrong answer, whatever comes to my mind, and then we may follow up on one of them at the end. So I'm going to just like 60 seconds whatever comes to your mind. Are you ready? Go for it, okay. First question have you ever manifested a parking spot or a first class upgrade using science and mind principles?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:Parking spot yes. First class ticket no, I've always paid for that or miles.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren:I manifested the miles. Yeah, oh, nice. Okay, all right, good Number two what's the most important part of your morning spiritual practice?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:Waking up, taking that first breath, that's a good one.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren:That's a good one. Breath Breathing, I love it Breathing. Number three what's a TV show, movie or book that you think perfectly demonstrates science of mind principles?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:I mean the obvious one is the Wizard of Oz, that cliche of Good choice, and even, and even with it's a cliche, but even love only forgive everything. Remember who you are. Love only the scarecrow and the heart forgive everything. So forgive is releasing, letting go the gut. All has to do with the guts. That would be the cowardly lion having the courage to release. And what was the third one? Remember who you are by only head and brain.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren:Eric, that's some next level metaphorical analysis there. Well done, I love that. So number four aside from being a minister or designer, what's one career or job that you could imagine having in your life?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:I'm loving doing retreat work. I would love I can see my ministry evolving doing more experiential work, work with people, sort of deep dive, collective, and I'm loving doing the breath work that I'm doing, you know, really bringing that in. So I think, creating retreat experiences, you know, and then also, you know, just in the design of in interiors, of more consciously of in interiors, of more consciously helping build the sanctuary in the home, as the home and in the heart.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren:Yeah, Love it. Number five you could have a New York Times bestseller or have your own show on Netflix. Which would you choose?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:If I could have a ghostwriter and have the New York Times. That's a one-off type thing. Netflix seems a lot of work and ongoing commitment of that.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren:Okay, what's one thing that people might be surprised to know about you.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:Yeah, I think it depends on what circle of friends I think anyone that. What I think my greatest secrets are that I'm a very, very sensitive person. You know that the deep esoteric, the spirituality, and I for many years felt like that was my big, not taboo, but that was my secret thing. The truth matter is everyone's like yeah, duh, we know that, like it's just it, it this is who you are, and like we can radiate and we can sort of sense that.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren:So okay, uh, last question you could invite one person for dinner ernest holmes, abraham, lincoln or gandhi, who's coming over to eric's house for dinner?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:well, a recurring dinner party list that I've had for years, so I'd have to move that one to accommodate. This one was for Michelle Obama and Oprah Winfrey. We just haven't been able to sync up our schedules for that, so as long as I can move that dinner party. Who are my choices?
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren:I'm sure that they'd probably say invite me over, I want to have dinner with Abraham Lincoln and Gandhi.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:I'd probably go with Gandhi just because I had such a resonant experience in India during the month of November.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren:You know what I'm going to add. One last question. You've traveled a lot of places in the world. What's one place you've been to where you would absolutely go back there again, oh?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:there are many. I definitely would go back to India. When I was going there, I knew that I was going to remember something. I didn't know what I was going there to remember and I felt like things were tapped in. There are different parts of India I'd like to explore next time.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren:Well, let's move into our final section, which is I want your advice on topics, and one of them I'd be curious about is you balance your professional life as a designer, and then the retreats that you're doing, also your ministerial life. What's the biggest challenge you faced in terms of balancing all of those, or a piece of advice you might give someone on how to balance having multiple things going on in your life at once?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:I love the. I use the metaphor a lot of space and particles. I love the. I use the metaphor a lot of space and particles. You know, when you are have a career, you're in studies, one, you'd be of service, it feels like you've got lots of balls up in the air, so it's like a juggling act. So one of the things that I regularly do is I'll just and sometimes it's even just the words space and particles shift my mind to the space, the space in between the particles. So it's like there's a lot that goes on. There's a lot of activity, a lot of commitments. A lot of people will want you from different perspectives.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:If I focus just on the balls in the air, it can become overwhelming. It feels like it's not, it's too much, and there's a part of me that I know I'm like it's not, it's too much, and there's a part of me that I know I'm like it's not too much, it's a lot. But the moment I can shift to the space, everything sort of slows down and it gives me the opportunity to. Well, let me look at this all in the air from all different angles and perspectives, and maybe this other one, and then I can really discern. This needs more attention right now, or this feels like I want to give more attention to that so I think a lot of it is not deceiving myself or kidding myself that there's not a lot to do.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:there's a lot to do, but being using some tools to really discern what's mine to do now. So that's one thing, and then the other challenge from my experience has been my spiritual path. It's a very individual personal journey and the challenge is find the balance of who do I share that with and who don't I. What do I keep close as an individual experience? And to find the comfort zone to be able to share it with someone, to share with people, and to realize that there's a difference between being alone and being lonely. I think there are. Sometimes, when you're on a spiritual path and you're doing that, there's a lot of alone time. Can you be alone without being lonely? And when the feelings or the energy of loneliness start to creep in, can you be willing to incorporate other people? And I don't have resentment on the spiritual path because I'm perceiving as lonely it's not lonely, but at times can feel that way. So that's the challenge, or some of the challenges.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren:I love that Last question. As you look forward, and what's that? Blue? Blue? Now I got to think of a question for which blue is the answer. As you look forward to the future of new thought, what color should all the churches? No, I'm kidding. As you look forward to the future of new thought spiritual centers and you know we have a lot of after the pandemic, a lot of things change. More things online, some things in person, still more experiential. What do you see from where you are and having experienced all these in the last three, four, five years, what do you see as the how new thought spiritual centers can be most successful?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:centers and that are more open at the top than others. I don't know. For me it's also the realization of to be open the top means you're actually in a box to be. You know, I think the future of new thought is far more expansive. So when looking at, for me there were and I think still, some people of like being absolutists of this is the way that philosophy is, this is how a center should look like. It kind of goes back to Ernest Holmes saying if you're still relying completely on what I wrote in 1926, 28, you missed the point. Because life and the evolution, consciousness shifts and grows.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:I think the needs for spiritual centers and connections are continuing to grow and expand and be outside of the box that it has been known as, even though the lid was open. We're open at the top, but the community and the need and desire at times has moved outside the box. I don't think the box is big enough. So for me, I've gone through, I would say, an identity crisis of feeling like, oh, I'm not big enough or worthy enough, going back to using my voice worthy enough or dynamic enough or whatever for this box worthy enough or dynamic enough or whatever for this box? And the truth of the matter is, you know, actually this box is no longer big enough for me, you know, and the work that the world is wanting for so much bigger, and knowing that this box, it will be a cornerstone and a foundational, the lock and the foundation of who I am, and to be willing to move outside that and broaden it. So it's like there are things for me to remember from ancient india, bringing some of those vedic truths which for me has been forgotten to bring back home.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:So I I think it's maybe it's the boxes of tether keeps me tethered, keeps me safe and keeps me aligned, like my stake in the ground is through this box with an open top, but to give myself a really long rope to go out and to explore. And I think the other thing is the experiential. You know people keep talking about the need of that. It's new thought, you know, even your talk, new thought to real talk. So they're moving from here to here, but for me I think you need to get from here to here, to in the body. So there's that experiential movement of it to sort of bypass, just keeping it as an intellectual philosophy, wow.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren:I love that. I don't think I will ever be able to look up at the ceiling in our center and not think of that idea of being open at the top and imagining, remembering it's not a box to contain, it's a box to be, a departure point for what can be even greater and it even goes back to.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:You know the story of a baby elephant who is chained. You know their ankles changed and you know rope staked in the ground and it grows. And it grows because of the conditioning we think like this is all that it can look like, or when the truth of the matter, the elephant grows to a place where it's a psychological, mental construct, thinking that this chain is going to hold him back. I think that can also apply to ministry, can apply to spiritual things. We've grown up thinking it needs to look this way, but as we grow in thought and mind like there's so many different directions that we can go, we are so much bigger than the constructs that are holding us in place.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:Yeah, you know and the and they've served us so incredibly well. You know, the box with the lid open at the top is the atmosphere that has enabled me to explore and experiment and play and ultimately to move away from and keep coming back to. It's like the ongoing hero's journey. Yeah, you know, I think that's what's about to go out and learn, explore and then bring back and share, not necessarily to preach and say this is the way it is, but like to come back and share, not necessarily to preach and say this is the way it is, but to come back and model.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:Embodied of this is the life that I'm living. This is what witness and you can see and be with me, based on all the experience of going out and coming back.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren:Yeah, I don't know why, but I'm reminded of the movie Elf, and if you think about that story, that's exactly what you described. Because in the beginning of the movie, when Buddy the Elf is played by Will Ferrell, there's scenes where he's so big now that the box at the North Pole with all the other elves cannot contain him, so he has to go out have his adventure in New York. But what does he do? At the end of the story? He comes back and brings the wisdom of what he learned out there into that box, and now he's integrated in a way that he wasn't before.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:Yeah, I never thought of it that way. But I think that's the tool of. We've all read the same books, we've all taken so many of the similar classes and really is the time to really put it into action, to really embody this, like at a cellular level. You know, it's one thing to have the intellectual part, but then to be able to really have the cellular memory of it throughout our body so we can just live it. We say new thought, but I think there's a beautiful point in where you don't need to be thinking about it.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer:It's just part of who you are because it's so incorporated in, I'll say to myself, of how I move through life. I'm not even aware, I don't even think about that. It's how deeply rooted it is in this new thought philosophy, because I've done the work, I'm committed to continue to do the work and through the ups and downs of it all, it's just incorporated. I move through life at a level of consciousness which is rooted in new thoughts. Because of that, I just go through life very differently than how I once did. I think that's what I wish other people to experience To be so comfortable in your skin, going back to for me to get to a point of being comfortable in my skin, realizing I'm a work of art. This is who I am in the comfort zone. I'm a work of art, this is who I am in the comfort zone to be so comfortable and intimate in the understanding and the expression of this philosophy that we're just moving through as the philosophy.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren:Well, that is a terrific place to leave our discussion for now. Reverend Dr Eric Overholtz, I'm so grateful to you for being part of this conversation. Thank you so much for being on the show today. All right, have a great day. Thank you so much for joining me in this conversation with Reverend Dr Eric Overholzer. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with someone who might find inspiration in Eric's story. And don't forget to subscribe to All Revved Up for more conversations designed to uplift and ignite your purpose. Until next time, I'm Rev Dr Thor Chalgren. See you on the next episode of All Revved Up.
