#002: When Your Spiritual Practice Gets Tested

What happens when spiritual principles meet everyday life?

In this episode of All Revved Up, Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren, Rev. Dr. Tiffani Milne, and Rev. Dr. Liza Marquez explore what happens when the ideas we teach are tested in real-world situations—from a difficult dental procedure to illness, fear, uncertainty, and even walking across hot coals.

Along the way, the conversation explores mindfulness, gratitude, New Thought principles, Abraham Hicks, Oprah, virtual reality, and the surprising ways our minds shape our experience.

Whether you're facing a challenge of your own or simply wondering how spiritual ideas translate into everyday life, this episode is a reminder that the real practice begins when life gets uncomfortable.

Thanks for listening!

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Join Rev. Dr. Tiffani Milne, Rev. Dr. Liza Marquez, and Dr. Thor Challgren each week as they explore practical spirituality, real life, and the questions we're all trying to answer.

Transcript

Dr. Thor Challgren 1:05

Dr. Liza, Dr. Tiffany, how are you today?

unknown 1:08

Hello.

Speaker 1:09

How are you? Welcome back. How has your week been? Don't jump in all at once. Sure, it's a good thing.

Speaker 3 1:16

I was trying to remember. So last week. Like, what did I do this week?

Dr. Thor Challgren 1:21

I know. Last week we talked about, Tiffany, you you brought up something that was a really interesting. Like, what thoughts go on in your mind during the shower? And that was sort of an interesting. It went to all sorts of interesting places, but I I uh so I'll show I'll just jump in. So this was a an interesting week for me because I went to the dentist on I guess it was Tuesday, because I knew, yeah. And it wasn't like the fun kind of dentist. It was Is it ever fun dentist?

Speaker 4 1:46

Is there a fun dentist?

Speaker 2 1:47

What's a fun dentist?

Speaker 1:48

There is like when you go to get your teeth.

Speaker 2 1:51

When they have the laughing gas, that's the fun dentist.

Speaker 1:53

Okay. So I have to be careful then how much I share about this because it might be triggering for some people. But I will bring it back to New Thought, which is so I had basically the dentist told me that I had this infected crown up here, where basically the post that

Welcome Back And Catching Up

Speaker 2:10

holds the crown into your bone, it was the bone was infected. And he's like, it's not good for your overall health to have this. So basically, we need to take the root out and and then we put in artificial bone, and then like four months later, we'll put a new crown on. So what was interesting to me was like I'm all drugged up on this, so I'm a yes, I'm a wave.

Speaker 4 2:32

That's why it was fun.

Speaker 2:33

Yeah, it was I was had like multiple injections of whatever they give you.

Dentist Anxiety Breath And Gratitude

Speaker 2:40

But there was a part where he's basically, if you think about like your the your upper, if you didn't know this, your upper molar has three things, your lower ones have two. So they there's three of these that they have to get out of your head. And so he's like, there's a certain point where you're gonna be able to do that.

Speaker 2 2:57

Are we talking about the root? The root of the tooth. There's three in the room.

Speaker 3:02

And and and when he said, What happens is your sinuses are all up here. So those roots, in some cases, are kind of intermingled with where your sinuses are. It can be a little tricky. But at a certain point, he's like, okay, you're gonna feel a little bit of pressure, and then and then you may hear a cracking. And I'm like, I don't want to hear that. But that's that's basically the the tooth coming out. But there's a point where he's like, okay, I got two of them out, but now we're we're working on the third, and the third one's like turned like that out. So it's a little bit harder. So this whole time I'm doing my meditative breathing, right? I'm going like, and I've heard this, you know, when said that when you have an uncomfortable situation, like a pain or something, like breathe into the pain. So you guys, I this whole time I'm like breathing into the tooth, and I'm like, I'm trying to, I'm, I'm thinking thoughts like I'm breathing in relaxation and I'm letting go of the tooth, and the tooth can let go of me. It served its like I'm doing, and I'm like doing this whole vaguely new thought thing where I'm like trying to get through this situation where I could have felt really tense because I'm waiting for the crack instead. I'm like trying to like like be mindfulness about it and let go. And it, I mean, it sort of worked, but do you I mean, do you ever use breathing in that way or like trying like something that you know is tense and you're trying to not be tense about it? Well, that's a good point. When I had both my babies, yeah.

Speaker 4 4:31

Well, I had an epidural. I was like, when I took Lamas and I was like, how quickly can I get the drugs? And they were like, no, no, no, no. Like we're focused on breathing. I was like, yes, yes, yes, I'm gonna breathe. But also, like, when can I get my epidural? So I I am a avoid pain at all costs kind of person. I also, if I'm being really honest, I forget sometimes that I have tools at my disposal to help me navigate things like that. As much as I hate to admit it, like I've been in this teaching for a long time, and you know, I'm a minister and I have my doctorate. Like, I know this stuff. And when my tushy is falling off, it is always where I end up. And in more and more in life, it's become the default setting. Like, there's definitely a default setting of like, what do I know about this? And and and rising above experience. But those are the types of moments, like sitting in the dentist chair, where it all just goes out the window. And I'm like, this is where I die. I die in a dentist chair, and like I hate to, I it's embarrassing to admit it after all this time, but like breathing into the tooth would not have been I guess I'm I'm just being honest, but it wouldn't have been what I thought.

Speaker 5:47

No, that's good. But maybe and it makes me think Oh, go ahead, Liza.

Speaker 2 5:51

No, no, go ahead.

Speaker 5:52

Well, like, what about colds? Like, can the like can you bring sort of a a new thought, science of mind presence to like, oh, I'm I feel like I'm getting a cold. Do you ever use it in that context?

Speaker 4 6:04

No, every cold's gonna kill me. I mean, it's just an eye cold.

Speaker 2 6:07

I don't think I have either. I've tried. I have tried, but you know what? I I think colds always come in the most inconvenient at the most inconvenient time. Like if I had the time to go, I'm just gonna breathe into it. I remember listening to um Oprah Winfrey once when she was talking, I think, to um Brene Brown about and they specifically talked about colds and about just sort of it like going, okay, I have a cold, and just kind of like doing a trust fall into the cold and just saying, okay, you know, my body's gotta do whatever it's gotta do, and I'm just gonna relax into it. And I thought, you know what? If I had I if I had Oprah money, I'd probably be like, cold, no problem. If I have to lay in bed for the next week and just allow for my body to do what it must, I will.

Speaker 6:48

Lay in your bed in your beautiful mansion in Montecito.

Speaker 2 6:51

And have somebody do everything for me. So yeah, in those instances, I could probably trust fall into a cold. But I feel like a cold is always coming in the most, even right now for me, like in the most inconvenient of times, that do I have time to breathe into it? No, but here's something that just came that I just thought about because you think about how long it's gonna take, like, oh fine, I gotta breathe into it, it's gonna take a long time, and I just don't, I don't have time for the cold, I don't have time for the breath, I don't have time for any of it, so I might as well just fight it all and just move through it anyway. And then you forget, especially in this teaching, like everything is capable of changing in an instant. That is I I'll speak for myself. I forget that the opportunity for things to change instantaneously exists because I believe that. And when and when I have those epiphanies on those moments, or what I like to call those miracle peekaboos for myself, I remember that I may be cold in this moment, but if I really I have the the possibility exist that in the next moment I'm perfectly healthy, that actually does exist.

Speaker 4 7:56

I feel like I'm really I do lean in on the big stuff, right? Like a health scare, and I'm like, I know the truth, and and like I my mind controls my body, my body does not control my mind, or you know, principles not bound by press. Like it it comes to me in the big stuff. I will say, just because I feel the need to defend my consciousness and to appear slightly more evolved than I come off in this podcast, I do when I have a cold or when I get sick. Rather, I I kind of treat it as like no big deal. Like for me, it's like, oh, this is an opportunity to relax, clearly. Like I've been right, because I'm always go, go, go, go, go. My life is always in perpetual motion. That it I kind of it's almost like I treat it like a welcome break. Not that I enjoy not feeling well or whatever, but it's how often in my life is the only expectation that I lay in bed, take NyQuil, and watch Real Housewives. Like that's not, you know, and so I do sort of have a welcome energy around nobody needing anything from me and the expectations kind of melting away so that I can just focus on healing my body. And so I don't have a not that I want to get sick or that I invite, I don't get sick very often, but I do sort of have almost like a positive energy around the idea of like, okay, like, you know, it's gonna go away. So I'm just gonna enjoy these two days of low expectations being placed on me.

Speaker 2 9:31

I I want to go back to something that you just said, Tiffany, just because um in case there are people here that are listening that don't understand it, because I think you hit on a really great point. Principle is not bound by precedent. And I think it's important for us to kind of like really dissect that, you know, for ourselves again. And if there's anybody listening here, that'd be like, what the hell does that mean?

Speaker 9:54

Yeah, what does it give give someone who doesn't know what is it? How do we think of what that means?

Speaker 4 9:59

Are you asking me? I'm happy to, yeah.

Speaker 10:01

It's no, Eliza or whoever, yeah.

Speaker 4 10:04

No, it's just the idea that no no matter what has happened in the past, no matter what we've ever we've experienced, no matter the diagnosis, the relationship, the experience, whatever has happened, that we are always free to create something new in every moment. So in this moment, none of that has any bearing on what I create today. And so if I can remember that, it's like, yes, I had a failed relationship, or yes, I had this bad experience.

Principle Not Bound By Precedent

Speaker 4 10:36

But in this moment, what do I want to create? And in the quantum field where anything in unlimited possibility do I want to create from this idea of this it happened before, and so this is going to continue to happen and bring that into the present moment, or do I want to be clear, recognize that we live in infinite possibility, and that I have the freedom right now to create something new without holding on to anything that's come before.

Speaker 11:06

Yeah. No, that's a great it's funny because this this comes up for me because I do think about this now and then. There was one time in my life where I had like the worst. I mean, I guess there's worse things, but this was at the time the worst sort of perfect storm of everything not working right, which was I had a toothache, I had a cold, and in sneezing, I sneezed exactly the wrong way and and lurched forward and threw out my back. So now my back hurts, my tooth hurts, and I've got a cold. And I was just like, what the hell? Like, and so, but I think about that every now and then, I'm like, well, at least I don't have that. And maybe that's I I in something that that we talked about here. Maybe that's the the way that the presence of mind that you can bring to, because I know I certainly did when I was in the dentist's office. I'm like, well, A, I I have a good dentist. B, he's local, so I like it's I'm not having to go to Tijuana to to get this procedure. I'm in no pain. They're taking good care of me. There's nice music playing. So what I was doing was finding all of the things that even in this undesirable circumstance, I could be grateful for.

Speaker 4 12:17

And maybe it's an energy shifter, right? Like gratitude naturally just elevates the energy to like getting out of the like, you know, the circumstance that I'm in to an elevated state or an elevated energy about it. That is a tool that I use all of the time. Like I may not have the presence of mind sitting in that dentist chair to be like, breathe into the tooth, or you know, to use meditation or those types of skills that are the tools that are in my toolbox. But it's like, all right, I, you know, I'm grateful that I was able to get the time off work. I'm grateful that, you know, I, you know, I have a job with flexibility, or, you know, I'm grateful that this dentist comes highly recommended and then he could see me. Like I feel like that is often a t a lever that I pull to pull myself out of or to elevate my thinking.

Speaker 2 13:10

Well, and when you were saying that, Thor, it reminds me one of the things that we also talk about in New Thought Philosophy is inductive and deductive reasoning.

Speaker 4 13:18

And it's look at you busting out the big words from our ministerial test.

Speaker 2 13:23

There's gonna be a test at the end of this episode.

Speaker 3 13:27

I love this. Go for it.

Speaker 13:31

And they mean what?

Speaker 3 13:32

But I think Yes. Right. And all right, Liza, don't screw it up. You have to I always flip them. Go ahead.

Speaker 2 13:40

Well, I think a lot of people generally flip them, but I mean, first of all, you have to understand what they are in order to flip them, I think. So that's fair. But as I'm listening to you talk, Thora, like it reminds me. So inductive reasoning, how how we teach it in the new thought philosophy, inductive reasoning is sort of when you're arguing for your higher self. So going back to like what when we were talking about principle is not bound by precedent, the thing that principle is, it's like it's universe, God, um, divinity, positive energy, whatever you choose to call

Inductive And Deductive Reasoning In Practice

Speaker 2 14:15

it, that is capable of anything at any time. And and if you have, you know, this this knowing, this belief, then you know there's something greater. And whatever name you choose for it is what you choose for it. So that's the principle. The precedent is the experience that we have in life. So it's the principle is not bound by the experiences that we've had in life, that we can go, oh, this is gonna happen because this is always what happens. That's precedent. And so when we talk about inductive and deductive reasoning, Thor, like what I saw you doing is kind of like arguing for that point of understanding that even in the circumstance that you're in right now, you are knowing that there is a higher power that is giving you all of the circumstances in order for it to come out as a positive experience versus going, oh shit, you know, every time I come here, it's gonna hurt. I'm gonna start bleeding, I'm gonna have a headache. And so it is, you know, you're going to be creating that. And so in inductive reasoning is is inducing, basically, the knowing.

Speaker 15:19

Inquiry. I mean, I think that's one way I remember learning. It's an inquiry into the truth. Inquiry into the truth, whereas deductive is I just know.

Speaker 4 15:28

It's looking for evidence outside to validate the the elevated state of energy or consciousness or understanding. Like, okay, I'm fine. I'm sitting in this chair. I, you know, I've got a great it is sort of using the outside to bring you to that state of calm of like all is well and I'm fine, versus the deductive reasoning, which is just the knowing. It's I just know I'm gonna be know that I'm fine, I know all is well, and I don't need any evidence to tell me that I'm gonna be fine. Right. Yeah.

Speaker 16:05

I I think that's what I like. Liza, you mentioned Oprah, and I I want to bring Oprah back in because I think like that would be awesome to be Oprah. Because if you're Oprah, if you're Oprah, you just know you're fine. You just know, like I'm I'm wise. People love my perspective. I'm I'm fabulously successful. I live in a beautiful place. So I get to to have experiences with amazing people, conversations with incredibly thoughtful. Like, who wouldn't want to be Oprah?

Speaker 4 16:36

I mean, I'm sure that that's true because I do find her to be incredibly authentic. And I do, and she has sort of built a life around, like she, you know, definitely leans into new thought principles and and spirituality and all those things. But I often think like, I have no idea what it's like to be Oprah. I don't know what her insecurities are like. Or at the end of the day, does she go home and think, you know, I put on the show and I do all these things and am I enough? Is it enough? Like, you know, the the what I present to the world, I and again, 99% of the time it's very aligned. Um and I don't have, you know, different faces for different people. But I but I do like, I do wonder, like, I wonder what Oprah's insecurities look like. Because she has to have them.

Speaker 2 17:28

It's not like she's just walking around talking about she talks about her weight all the time. Right. That is a huge insecurity for her. Well, which money like money does me. I don't mean to say that. I don't mean to say that, but I think as it's played out in the public eye, it's very clear, like there's a lot of things that she's handled in the world, and this is something that, you know, has been an seems like has been an albatross around her neck, you know? Mm-hmm.

Speaker 4 17:55

Well, and somebody who, you know, on the outside had, you know, not Oprah level success, but success in the husband and the kids and the job and all of and the house and all of those things, like, but also somebody who struggled with insecurities around body image and my weight. Like, you know, for me, and not saying this is Oprah's experience, like there's still that, there's like none of that could overcome the feeling of not feeling like I was enough or not being comfortable in my own body, you know, or like what how much of it would I have traded to just be comfortable in my own skin? I'm very grateful to be comfortable in my own skin now and to be able to still have the husband in the house, you know, and all of those things. But that's not a small thing to, especially being in the public eye and to feel like you don't fit the molds of what beauty is supposed supposed to look like. So I don't know. I just wanted to add some food for thought because like I also think it would be great to be Oprah, but like it'd be great to be, but she's got her own stuff to be dealing with.

Speaker 2 18:59

Fair point.

Speaker 18:59

And I I should amend my statement and go when I said who wouldn't want to be Oprah, it's totally valid and fair point. I meant it, I I was still thinking of like Oprah with a cold at her house in Montecito, going, like, probably having like, yes, I'd like some chicken soup brought over to me right now in the next four minutes, like that, like that level of possibility. But you know what? I I having said that, I'm sure that there are people in our lives for each of us where they might look at us and go, damn, I'd love their life. They got it all together. So it's always just a matter of perspective and what where you are level-wise, right?

Speaker 4 19:37

Well, and I can also I feel like Oprah when I door dash matzo ball soup. Like I have somebody who will bring me hot matzo ball soup straight to my door. It's just they're not on my payroll. I just pay overpriced amounts for matzo ball soup to be delivered to my door.

unknown 19:55

Yeah.

Speaker 19:56

So we're saying new thought people never get caught. No, we're not saying that they never get caught, but best lives.

Speaker 2 20:02

Well, I heard something that was super interesting. And I because I when I take my little nugget, who you've heard barking up a storm, um out for a walk, I'm always I time my walks by two Abraham Hicks talks because that's 30 minutes.

Speaker 1 20:16

Oh, I love it.

Speaker 2 20:16

And I love listening because I, you know, sometimes I listen to the Housewives after show.

Speaker 20:22

But but a lot of times I do listen to Do people, in case they don't know Abraham Hicks, give give people a quick many people will, but Yeah.

Speaker 2 20:30

So Abraham Hicks, thank you, Thor. Abraham Hicks is uh is essentially a woman, her name is Esther Hicks. Her and her husband, Jerry Hicks, Jerry has now passed away, has since passed away. And she a long time ago started, for lack of a better term, channeling um like a I from what I understand, it is it is an entity. It's not just one energy or one being, it's an it's an entity of beings that have chosen to call themselves Abraham, and they channel through her to speak exactly about what we're talking about and you thought and how to how the basis of the conversation is when you're in what

Abraham Hicks Channeling And Constant Expansion

Speaker 2 21:10

she or they call the vortex, which means in that space place when you're pure gratitude, you know exactly who you are, you know that you're worth everything, that there is no struggle involved in anything, and that you can create the perfect life that you are actually desiring because at the end of the day, that life that you desire is actually desiring to be ch be experienced by you. And so a lot of the conversation is, yeah, but why is it not happening now? So Abraham Hicks speaks to people that have questions, and essentially the question is always about the same. Why not now? You know, why is it I'm just gonna be able to do that? Why hasn't it happened yet? Why hasn't it happened yet? So a lot of the conversation is that, but it's said in so many different ways. And I love it because it just triggers something. But one of the things that I recently heard them talk about was and I and I know this to be true, just I mean, just on a practical level, like you don't ever reach like the pinnacle of what it is that you're trying to desire. There's always something more. There's there's always something more to experience, always something greater. That when you think you've gotten somewhere, there's gonna be a new desire. And the conversation was about constant expansion, you know? And that one like, you know, you you talk about you hear people that have won football, like the Super Bowl or the NBA Go Spurs. So people that have reached that when they they've made that their goal their whole life, like I won the Super Bowl and then they have the ring. And then there's in a there's like a certain amount of depression that comes in because it's like now what? And if we can really get around the fact that we're always constantly going to be creating because that's by nature who we are, um, the energy of who we are is constantly trying to expand and move and grow and experience. And that I think discomfort sometimes brings about the discomfort of growing. Or or wanting to experience something new brings about sometimes an immense amount of discomfort and pain and struggle within ourselves, you know?

Speaker 23:17

Can I can I just ask real quick, because last week we talked about how do you know if you're in a cult? And you know, that that sometimes people look at new thought. No, what you just described, some people might go, okay, so what you're saying is this lady gets up on a on a stage, and then a an energetic being starts speaking to her. And I've I've been to their workshop, so I've seen it happen. Like she's she's Esther, and then she just goes up and she quiets her mind, and she's talked about like her process. She basically meditated forever. So she was stilling her conscious mind, which then she says allowed the the voice of the wisdom of Abraham to come through. But one of the things that I always thought is and goes back to what what we were talking about last week with the cult ideas, okay, but if if what if the wisdom that Abraham is sharing is valid for you, who cares where it came from? If you learn something from it, if you get something out of it, then maybe it's valid for you.

Speaker 4 24:20

Right. Well, and I think that's true for, you know, organized religion doesn't work for me. And they for a multitude of reasons. It's not, you know, I I it doesn't work for me. But I see its impact in other people's lives. I see how much, you know, strength that they draw from it. To me, you know, praying to a deity outside of me doesn't resonate for me. That's not where I believe that the power and the strength for me comes from. But I can't, I I can't not see how that how it does operate and work in other people's lives. And that's what I love about New Thought is it's not saying that any of it is wrong. It's saying let's take the best of all of it, these golden threads of truth and and empower ourselves with it and sort of without getting into any of the dogma or the I've always said that like all religions are universally the same. Like there's the golden threads where it's all the same. Where it starts to differ is when man got their hands on it. Like, and then they started to like put like rules and and ideas about, you know, about morality and and how to live your life around it. But the like, you know, love only is not, you know, unique to us. Love only can be found in every single religion out there. And so for me, I'm like, yes, whatever works for you, embrace it. If it's making you a better person and makes you feel like you're not alone. And like our world is difficult to navigate if you feel isolated and by yourself and don't feel like you have something higher to lean on. And so, yeah, if channeling Abraham gives people great pe channel Abraham. Like, I'd do it too if it worked for me. Yes, please.

Speaker 26:16

Yeah.

Speaker 4 26:17

I don't have any judgment about any of it.

Speaker 26:20

Liza, I have to ask you because I know I've seen some of these on YouTube, and some of them are really clever. Like I they've done like little animations where it's like a little animated version of Esther on the stage, and then they show the person that like they're very entertaining to watch.

Speaker 2 26:33

Super. I don't know who does that, but whoever does it, like kudos to them because they've done a ton of them. And I love watching them. Usually I'm listening to them because I have my headphones in, but yeah, some would sometimes I just sometimes it's just a picture of her and then whatever the talk is about.

Speaker 26:52

Well, this brings a question that's been on my mind for a long time, the last couple of years, is we see so much of spirituality, wisdom, teaching that's gone in the online space. And so I I asked the question has YouTube in some way, I don't want to say replaced, but is it is it a substitute for people going to sort of traditional church or going and having that Sunday experience? Because like you're saying, you could go listen to uh a thing and on your walk and have a spiritual experience, learn something from it. Has has YouTube replaced the sort of traditional experience of church? What do you guys think?

Speaker 2 27:35

I think the pandemic sort of did that, to be honest. I think the pandemic, me maybe people were searching and didn't understand that. And once the pandemic hit and everything went online, it was like, uh let me search for something, and it just it sort of stayed that way. I mean, I think I don't necessarily think that y YouTube has replaced it. I think there are other modalities that have

YouTube Spirituality Versus Real Community

Speaker 2 27:56

replaced what church, you know, brick and mortar separation. Because, you know, we w well we do at New Thought Now in Westlake Village, we do the 90 breath work that Dr. Eric does, or the sound baths that you know, Dr. James and Scott and Jo Jude do. Judd, sorry, I keep I don't know what I call him Jude. They people have experiences from just that. I think what's happened if I think what people are waking up to is the somatic response to what spirituality actually is. Where before it was more of like a comprehension of entity, of God, you know, whatever you want to God, Muhammad, whatever you want to call it, like whoever it is that you worship. And now people are really kind of understanding it in their bodies as their energy is more somatic and and turning into a different direction in that way.

Speaker 28:57

So we say that, we're talking about the feeling you have in your body, the way that it impacts your your physical expression.

Speaker 4 29:05

I also think like as that awakening is happening, there's also an and I don't mean to disrespect any one religion or any religion, but I think people are also have a lot less tolerance for any hypocrisy or anything that that comes across as intolerant or you know, telling dictating that what morality looks like. And so there's been a little bit of a rebellion against that or the organized religion box and an embracing of the, you know, the more spiritual somatic experience. And but I think that that the reason why I what I'd love to see happen and I think will ultimately happen is the th there's a third component that YouTube or, you know, a a podcast or anything like that can't replace, and that's connection and human connection, which we absolutely need. And I think you saw in the pandemic when with people isolated that it had real impact on people's mental health. Like we are pack animals that need to be together. And for me, I can have a spiritual experience, you know, clearly, you know, when I go on Sunday. And also, you know, going on the wine tour and being a community, like, you know, sitting with the two of you and just laughing over a cocktail for me gives me that somatic experience. But I think that YouTube can't replace that feeling of I belong here. These are my people, this is my tribe, which I think people were getting from and are getting from organized religion. I think where people feel alienated is they're like, okay, I have this sense of community and this sense of belonging, but like this doesn't resonate with me, or something feels off, or wait a minute, like I don't, I that doesn't actually align with my values or what I believe. So now what do I do? And so now they're sort of man without an island. Then you find the somatic, you know, experience. You're like, oh, this feels good. And for me, what I love about New Thought and what we have is it for me, it feels like the marriage of all of it. I get to have a community and a place to go and that sense of belonging. And I get that somatic experience, and I get the self-empowerment and that feeling of something bigger, the spiritual experience. And nobody tells me what to do or how I'm supposed to live my life, you know?

Speaker 31:48

Yeah. Yeah, I think that you're right about community because I think back even to like some of the in-person workshops I've been to, like years ago, going to uh one of the Tony Robbins three-day things where on the Friday night, the first night, you do the firewalk at like midnight or whatever. And that experience Did you do the firewalk? I did, yeah.

Speaker 2 32:08

And did you bring your fire?

Speaker 32:10

No, it's crazy. Like so you walk super fast? No, I did not. It is literally, it is the greatest demonstration I've ever seen of mind over matter because if you've not done it, essentially on his three-day, I don't know if he still does it and has unleashed the power within workshops, but then the way that it worked was you got there at like six o'clock on a Friday night, and he basically spends about four or five hours preparing you, like first, like decompressing you, de-stressing you from the week, and you spend a lot of meditation time preparing your mind for what you're gonna do. Because everyone knows, like at least then, everyone's like, oh my God, the firewalk, you know, happens at the end

Firewalking Faith And Testing Belief

Speaker 32:53

of tonight, and I'm not gonna do that. That's crazy. I don't have to do that to prove anything. Like, that's what's going on in your head, you know, all thousand people. And then you get out there and they're literally making their they've been, you know, burning the coals and getting them ready for hours, and there's a whole line of them, and you just get in a line, and you get in state. So you are putting yourself, and he he teaches you how to do this. You were in a meditative state, and you only have to be in the meditative state for maybe about it's about eight to nine seconds to get across the path. And and they they basically you move up to the place where you're gonna go across, and then someone taps you on the shoulder, and you you start saying this phrase that you're saying in your mind over and over, and you walk across, and at the end you just rub your feet off, they hose your feet down so that you don't end up having any embers in between your toes, because that would, and then you're done. And then you do your your thing, and and literally nothing. And then I did it again a second time, like six months later, and that one was like a 15-foot power uh firewalk that took and still nothing. Now, Erin the second time did burn her feet because someone knocked her out of state, but it's how did they knock her out of state? Someone bumped into her when she was on her way across. Or no, they bumped into her right before so like you have to right before you go off, you have to be in prime state to be ready to do this. And someone knocked into her and it jostled her and they tapped her and she started walking, and because she had been broken, her state had been broken, she was immediately like, because essentially what they're doing, and this is a really interesting metaphor, you're saying something in your head over and over that prevents your mind from thinking about what's happening with your feet. Interesting. And I I guess that's the the idea is that if your mind doesn't have the ability to question, like, am I feeling heat, then your body doesn't create the physical response to it. I don't know how it works, but it's I wonder if that's the same.

Speaker 2 34:52

You know, you hear about, you know, the mom who lifted a car because her child was leaning. Like you're so distracted. Maybe the distract is not the right word, but your focus is so much on saving your child that the thought of not being able to like lift a portion of a car doesn't even enter your mind because you're so focused on this.

Speaker 35:10

I think you're right.

Speaker 4 35:12

It's funny because that is like it what we teach in new thought, right? Like the mind controls the body, the body doesn't control the mind, right? So if the mind controls the body, then yes, I have the power to set my mind into a state where my feet can't get burned when I walk across or I can lift up a car. What's interesting and what I found myself, I love finding those spots where I think that there's a special occasion or where my mind because I gener I wholeheartedly believe this teaching. I'm in, I teach classes on it, right? Like I am in, and yet I can still find those moments of do I really believe this wholeheartedly? So when Thor was explaining it about the walk and all of those things, so like it's very it's exactly what we teach. Like, if I had full buy-in, I it would be like, yeah, of course you can walk across the hot coals. Like there wouldn't be anything in my mind that would think you can't. And yet I found myself really like a hanging on every word, because like how do we do this? But also like, as somebody who's had third degree burns on my foot before, not from walking across fire, like, yeah, I'm not doing that. Like, I wasn't, you know, or finding the resistance. But the resistance can only be how much do I fully a hundred percent embrace and believe what we teach? Because I have those, you know, prove to me that I won't burn my feet when I walk across the coal.

unknown 36:48

Yeah.

Speaker 4 36:48

Okay. I feel like I'm always the one. Liza's like, and let's go back to what we teach in new thought. And Thor's like, yes. And I meditated through my tooth. And I'm like, I still have doubts. I have questions.

Speaker 2 37:00

Well, I mean, I don't think that's true. And maybe that's a conversation for another show because I will tell you that for sure I've been going through it. Of like, what do I believe? And is it like, am I believing in a bunch of bullshit? The answer, the short answer is no.

Speaker 3 37:21

Of course not.

Speaker 4 37:22

But I will those special occasions pop up.

Speaker 2 37:26

It takes me through a journey, and I wish it was just like a moment, but it's sometimes not just a moment. But maybe a conversation for another time.

Speaker 4 37:38

No, I was gonna say it's back to that inductive reasoning, right? Because I know this, but when I have those moments where, oh, all of a sudden I'm afraid, or all of a sudden, you know, my default state before I found this teaching was every emotion I had, oh, I live here now. I'm just sad now. I'm gonna be sad for the rest of my life and I'm never gonna and I don't live like that anymore. But I have the but when those moments happen where it's like, oh, I'm feeling loss, I'm feeling grief, I'm feeling scared, I have to remind myself to get back there instead of always, you know, most things can't knock me off my center. Most of the time, I don't have to remind myself who I am when somebody's rude to me in a coffee shop, right? I can just like you know, or when I'm, you know, worried about something pan small things panning out. But with the big things, I still have those moments where I'm like, remind me and convince myself that I'm gonna be okay. And then I always am, and it always is, and it's fine, but I have to it's an it's inductive reasoning instead of deductive sometimes.

Speaker 38:45

Yeah. It's it's easy to have I mean, faith is an overused word, but let's just apply it here. It's easy to have faith that this will work out, that you can do it when you're in the ballroom and it's three hours before you have to do it. It's real when it's midnight and there's two people in line in front of you, and you know you're about a minute away, and you can feel the 1500-degree hot coals, and you know, like, okay, the relative world is about to be very relative. How much power do I believe my mind has? And in that moment, you have to believe it's infinite.

Speaker 4 39:22

Yeah. Have you guys ever done the VR goggles, like where you put on the virtual reality? And there's one where you have to step out, like you have the goggles on and you go take an elevator up to like a high level floor, and then you have to step out on a plank and jump. Can you can you guys do it? I can't do it. I I know, and I'm telling myself, I am my living room right now. I am safe. It's not real, and I still cannot, I have yet to be able to step off of that ledge and and do the virtual free fall.

Speaker 2 39:59

Do it. It's fine. Do it, yeah. I actually went with the kids to uh it was a whole uh dinosaur thing. And so we're in we it was in Century City, and I think they still have it. There's like different experiences that you actually go into a room and you're you're you're stationary essentially, but you're not because you're walking around, you know, like you're and there's one part where you're like literally at at the ledge of this mountainside, and you have to decide to jump or turn around,

VR Fear FOMO And Wrap Up

Speaker 2 40:28

you know?

Speaker 40:30

And your senses are telling you one thing, and your mind is like, oh, I'm just in in a in the mall in Century City, I'm fine.

Speaker 2 40:37

It just it but it does feel like I, you know, I've I've been on roller coasters where you're coming, you know, down and you feel it in your stomach, like your stomach goes up. And I remember having the VR. I'm standing. I am standing on ground holding onto a railing because you kind of have to just in case, like you walk. So you so you're holding onto a railing, and I walk off this ledge and I have that feeling in my stomach as if I actually jumped. And it was I mean, it was exciting, but also really like, what did I just do? You know?

Speaker 4 41:07

This feels like a self-mastery thing where like I have to make myself do it because the fact that it really bothers me, the fact that like, even though I know, and it's such a metaphor for life, which is I feel like why it makes me feel like I have to do this, even though I know I'm safe, I'm not really falling, and whatever. The idea of stepping off that ledge is just like there's some like the self-preservation kicks in, and I can't do it. So, okay, by the next time we record, I guess I'm gonna have to get my hands on some VR goggles. I think my brother-in-law still has them.

Speaker 41:43

Come over, but we have like metal ones. I can't do it because it makes me nauseous. I have like an inner ear thing whenever my friend lets me try it on, because I can't my mind or my my eyes can't see something that my inner ear isn't feeling. I just immediately short.

Speaker 4 41:59

I wish I had just used that. I know that's not an excuse, but I wish I had just said that, not outed myself that I'm just a giant baby because now I have to go use VR God now.

Speaker 42:10

People are gonna be like, this episode's gonna come out and they're like, Have you done it yet?

Speaker 2 42:17

I think part of it for me though, the reason I do it is because I may never be here again. And if I don't do it, I'll never experience it. So it's more of like that FOMO. I mean that's just me like I have no FOMO. My FOMO is greater than any kind of fear of like what like I I've jumped in this beautiful pool of water in Thailand because I knew I'd never be back there again. It was ice cold. And they said it was ice cold. And I was there with my best friend Laura and she's like, Yeah, I'm not doing it. It's ice cold. These people are coming up freezing, they probably have hypothermia. I'm not doing it. I go, I'm never gonna be here again. I'm gonna do it. This is probably it. I'm grateful I did it, but I literally was like, my God, I almost just became just at the bottom of this pool of water because it's so incredibly cold. I have not forgotten how cold that water is.

Speaker 4 43:08

This is probably a conversation for another time, but like the the two sides of the same coin where like FOMO actually it like forces you to have life experiences that you would be too afraid, but you're like, I'm not gonna not miss, I'm not gonna go home regretting this. So I'm jumping in the ice cold water. And then the other side of FOMO, where it's like, how often do you spread yourself too thin or not do what you really want to do because you don't want to miss out on what other people are doing? Like how they can go both ways. Because I don't have FOMO, so I'm like, screw you, enjoy the bottom of that ocean. I'm not doing it, right? But I also miss out on life experiences because I don't succumb to peer pressure. So I don't know.

Speaker 2 43:51

I mean, listen, I'm grateful that I did it because I sit here today knowing how cold it was and I did it. I would be so mad at myself if I had chosen not to do it and going, God, that is something that I wish I would have done in my life. I'll never say those words because Yeah.

Speaker 44:06

Well, I I have to say, when you started telling us that story, Liza, and you said, I may never be here again, I suddenly got nervous because I thought you were talking about the podcast.

Speaker 4 44:17

She's done with us. She's never coming back. You she's like, you guys are the worst, and I don't want to talk to you anymore. My phone will open.

Speaker 44:24

I just have to get it done. We're we're done with this episode, but you are coming back next week, right?

Speaker 2 44:30

Yeah. Okay, good.

Speaker 44:31

In the same outfit.

Speaker 2 44:32

You will always see me in the same outfit because Okay, good.

Speaker 44:35

I love it.

Speaker 2 44:35

Yeah, your podcast outfit.

Speaker 44:37

All right. I love you guys, and I will uh talk with you next week. Bye. Have a great week, everyone.

Speaker 3 44:43

You too.