Dr. Beth Ruby, staff veterinarian at the Oklahoma Dept of Ag, and Director of Avian and Equine Health, covers why it is so important to have horses tested for Equine Infectious Anemia. We clear up some laws and share what might be different from state to state. And most importantly, we talk about why more horses might be testing positive for EIA.
Dr. Beth Ruby, staff veterinarian at the Oklahoma Dept of Ag, and Director of Avian and Equine Health, covers why it is so important to have horses tested for Equine Infectious Anemia. We clear up some laws and share what might be different from state to state. And most importantly, we talk about why more horses might be testing positive for EIA.
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Kris Hiney: welcome to Extension horses, Tack Box Talk Series Horse stories with the purpose. I'm your host, Dr. Chris Hiney, with Oklahoma State University.
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and today we're going to be talking about Coggins and testing for EIA. And so we have a very appropriate person with us today.
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Kris Hiney: Dr. Beth Ruby, who is with the Department of Ag in Oklahoma. She is a staff veterinarian, and the Director of avian and horse health. So welcome, Dr. Ruby.
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Beth Ruby: Thank you, Dr. Hiney. Happy to be here.
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Kris Hiney: Okay. So the first question I have is, why did they put together birds and horses in one thing.
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Beth Ruby: So that was just my luck when I started in this position those 2 programs that were open. So I got birds and horses thankfully. I knew a lot about horses, and I learned a lot about. Yeah, there's just not a lot of overlap, though. So influenza and not a problem with the ponies.
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Beth Ruby: Thank goodness, thank goodness, it's not. No, but I just a little piece of information here. But people don't know Oklahoma is actually twelfth in the nation for Commercial broilers.
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Beth Ruby: Oh, look at us! We're we're much higher in horses. So yeah, i'm not even sure where we rank in horses. I don't. I don't know if they rank that it would be interesting to know.
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Beth Ruby: So do you have the answer to that? Well, in population numbers. We're 5. Okay, yeah, Texas, California, Florida and Ohio is ahead. So okay.
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Kris Hiney: So
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Kris Hiney: anyhow. So what we're we're talking about today. So working in the Department of Ag as the Director of of Horse Health. I assume one of the biggest issues or things that you have to tackle and oversee, or all of those coggins, and making sure we don't have a sneaky population of horses that have EIA. Is that right?
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Beth Ruby: That is correct? So we do regulate the EIA testing and the laws that get our testing in Oklahoma, and we also respond to any horse that would have a positive test
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Kris Hiney: Okay. And since you've had this position.
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Kris Hiney: How often is this come up in Oklahoma
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Beth Ruby: as far as a positive EIA, we average one to 2 cases a year. Okay.
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Beth Ruby: yeah, the national average is actually increasing.
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Kris Hiney: We're going to talk about. Yes. But yeah, so so far in Oklahoma we've had one positive case this year. Okay? And then did people still have the option to try to quarantine those horses, or is it mostly humane euthanasia at that point in time?
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Beth Ruby: So yeah, the only 2 options since this is a disease, it's a virus, so it's not treatable. There is no vaccine. It's actually in the same family of viruses as AIDs in people. So so just Don't have a whole lot of of good options if a horse has Eia.
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Beth Ruby: and so, therefore the only 2 options we have are euthanasia or lifelong quarantine.
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or they cannot be within 200 yards of another equine species.
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Kris Hiney: Yeah, so that's that's pretty tough. So essentially you're sentencing them to live by themselves.
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Beth Ruby: And, as you know, I mean equines are a herd species, and they don't like to live by themselves, and it's difficult, I think, for a lot of people to maintain that kind of quarantine. So so it is. That's a tough
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Beth Ruby: that's a tough choice. So
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Kris Hiney: okay.
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Kris Hiney: So I I again would like to reiterate. So this unfortunate disease is a virus that doesn't have a vaccine. So we have lots of other viruses that have vaccines.
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but because it's more like you said it's sort of like a retrovirus it is. We have not had the ability
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Kris Hiney: to produce a vaccine for this disease
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Beth Ruby: correct.
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Kris Hiney: so the only way we have to control in the population, then, is to find positive horses and then remove them from the horse population
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Beth Ruby: right? And the hard part with that is a lot of horses only get this disease will only be
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Beth Ruby: sick or ill, for maybe a few days, maybe a week, and and maybe coming down with nondescript signs. I mean little bit of fever.
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Beth Ruby: and they don't eat very well.
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They don't get super sick from it, and so we may not know they have it. But the problem is, they recover but
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Beth Ruby: Continue to carry the virus, and now they're a source of infection for other horses. AS horses get older They usually they will become symptomatic and and become much more ill, for
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Kris Hiney: So maybe we should go back then and and clear things up for people, so it's not a contagious virus. This is going to be blood born, and so let's go over the methods it's transmitted from horse to horse.
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Beth Ruby: And so there's there's kind of 2 ways we can transmit it there's what we call natural transmission.
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Beth Ruby: It can be transmitted by horseflies. So large flies that actually take a blood meal from a horse.
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Beth Ruby: And what they do is they get that contaminated blood on their own mouth and parts, and they want to go over and bite another horse.
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Beth Ruby: They essentially kind of inoculate them with that virus. So natural transmission. Actually. it's. It's not easy to make it happen, because it requires the right fly.
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Beth Ruby: If that fly
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Beth Ruby: goes more than 200 yards that blood will dry up and the virus will die. That's why that quarantine is in case in 200 yards, and it usually requires repeated exposures, not always just again, so much blood is involved in how much that virus is there.
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Beth Ruby: The other way it can be spread is what we call I iatrogenically.
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Beth Ruby: and that just means that we, as people, contaminate something with infected blood, and then give that to an an infected horse.
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Beth Ruby: So we're using needles. We're using equipment. We're using dental
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Beth Ruby: dental equipment can be a big one. So
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Beth Ruby: those are the things that we worry a little bit more about, because it's much easier to spread the virus that way. You can have a thousands of virus particles just in a small drop of blood, so versus a a teeny, tiny amount that a fly would pick up.
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Beth Ruby: So we actually get more concerned about that I atrogenic transmission in the natural.
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Kris Hiney: So I atrogenic the other word for it would be the naughty way they get EIA. There's time, then this is why I wanted to talk about it, and we're going to talk about the rules about testing here in a minute.
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And we did have this on an episode of a couple of years back. But I think it's important for people to realize there's sort of a sub population of horses
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Kris Hiney: that this can be in. So do you want to talk about
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Beth Ruby: who they are, and which States need to be worried about it?
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Beth Ruby: What we call bush tracks, which are unsanctioned tracks. So when we talk about racetracks, we talked about sanctioned racing, which is racing, that is
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Beth Ruby: monitored and regulated by States, and not every State has sanctioned racing.
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Beth Ruby: When we talk about unsanctioned racing you may hear it called match racing. You may hear it called bush bush track racing, and that is where people get together and
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Beth Ruby: race horses against each other it has really taken off in the United States. It's found in
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Beth Ruby: many, many States, even states that Don't have
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Beth Ruby: sanctioned racing, and I think the last count was. It was in over 30 States, and we know right now since 2017 that over 80% of the cases of the Equine infectious anemai are current in this population, and that is because of iatrogenic spread.
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These horses are given multiple drugs
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Beth Ruby: prior to racing, and they also can be given contaminated blood through a process we call blood doping, and that's where you take one from one horse, and you give it to another horse, so that
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Beth Ruby: because my blood cells carry oxygen, so the more my blood cells you have, the more oxygen you get. So the theory is you will run, and faster. And so it's. That's the main concern right now, and the main way we're seeing this
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Kris Hiney: so just as a side note how effective is blood doping in a horse because they already store red blood cells in their spleen that's released during exercise. We know it's super effective in humans, and we all know from the bike scandal whatever that tour de France, all that fun stuff and a lot of human athletics.
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Kris Hiney: But is there that much of a a boost to blood dope a horse? It already blood does themselves?
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Beth Ruby: I don't know that there's any scientific evidence to support it. I would think at this point in time. It's probably anecdotal. If you ask people who go blood dope horses, and will probably tell you that I think it
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Beth Ruby: makes a difference. But you don't really there any scientific backing to that? So I think it's that's a little bit of a difficult question to answer. I I don't know that it works. But I think if we look at people and how it works in people, maybe there's a positive effect.
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Beth Ruby: Yeah.
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Kris Hiney: Yeah, I mean. So let's just put that out there. People. So horses naturally carry a reserve of red blood cells in their spleen that under exercise conditions, they naturally increase their hematocrit.
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Kris Hiney: They blood dope themselves so just stop it. They do not. They're cool that way.
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Kris Hiney: so I I guess the the concern, then, is that they use population of of horses. These Bush League horses then kind of get, maybe intermixed, or have the opportunity where this spreads out of maybe that isolated population, and and has the ability to get, maybe into our
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Kris Hiney: more resident horse population, so to speak.
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Beth Ruby: Right. So you know, 2 ways that can happen is many times These horses that are participating in and unsanctioned racing are being housed with courses that are either in such or actually have this separate purpose.
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Beth Ruby: And so that's one way. The other way is a lot of these horses. Get re-purposed through You know a lot of them finished their racing career around 4, and they're gonna go with their horses, or they're gonna go be
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Beth Ruby: riding horses or ranch horses or trail horses. And if these are infected. Then we're now putting them into a non-infected
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Beth Ruby: situation, and that's where we worry about natural spread occurring. So so there may have been infected. Iatrogenically. But now we're putting that into the general population where there are a source of natural infection.
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Kris Hiney: Yeah. And I know definitely in Oklahoma there's plenty of horse flies in the summer with their big little needles. They're carrying around making those horses bleed so it's certainly possible. I mean I I run from horse flies, and my horses run from horse flies. It's not pleasant when they bite you. Yeah, yeah.
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Kris Hiney: okay. So we've kinda talked about where this maybe uptick in is coming from. So it's not not great news. So my question here is maybe a hard one. So
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Kris Hiney: how do we encourage people? It's the law, so we'll go over all of the laws that are involved relative to Eia.
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Kris Hiney: But if the result
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Kris Hiney: of a positive test
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Kris Hiney: is that the horse has to go away. Do you have people that are, do you think are purposefully not complying?
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Kris Hiney: Just so that that doesn't happen to the horse?
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Beth Ruby: I think, in the general population. No, I think, in our high risk, you know population in that unsanctioned racing population. Yes, in, and we do actually have instances where
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Beth Ruby: and it's not happen in Oklahoma thankfully. But of course we'll test positive, and it will, you know, essentially disappear. So we will lose track of that.
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Kris Hiney: So with with your role. Then working in the the State vet's office
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Kris Hiney: and in the horse. How do you guys ever have to go? Do like? Is it like raids like FBI like. Go take blood on these horses and see what's happening.
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Beth Ruby: If we simply do not have to get that dramatic. So usually what happens. The way this deploy works is, I will be notified by the laboratory running the test
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Beth Ruby: that they have gotten
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Beth Ruby: a non negative result. So the reason we call it a non negative is because I don't have confirmation, and there are some things that can cause a screening test to have a positive.
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Beth Ruby: So when we talk about eia testing. Is that not uncommon for us to get a false positive result? I see
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I see 3 or 4. them a month. Sometimes
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Beth Ruby: we see it nationwide, and we want that screening test to be super sensitive. We want it to. I rather pick up
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Beth Ruby: a false positive. Then, miss a true Nick, or a true positive. And so you know, if those of you listening to this, if you ever have a horse that you've tested with it.
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It's always been negative. And now, all of a sudden.
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Beth Ruby: you get a call from me, saying, hey, we're
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Beth Ruby: don't pay, Nick, and most of those are going to be a false, positive result. What we have to do is go through some additional testing to confirm that so anytime we get a non-negative result on a we do confirmatory testing on.
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Beth Ruby: If our confirmatory testing comes back
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Beth Ruby: positive, then I get a little bit more concerned, and what we do is we redraw a sample from that horse for 2 reasons. One make sure we have the correct horse
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Beth Ruby: and 2 to just double check. So so the first step I do when I get these is go through that confirmatory testing. I will go ahead and place a quarantine on that so we know where it is
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Beth Ruby: and then we do. If we have to do the conservatory.
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Beth Ruby: That's when we actually will quarantine the horses that are exposed as well, because our suspicion is a little bit. and then from there. What we do is we test all the horses that we believe are exposed
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Beth Ruby: typically that's horses in the same barn, the same owner or the same trainer
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Beth Ruby: because that we're looking for possible iatrogenic spread. as well as natural, spread when we find a positive.
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Beth Ruby: So you know we we don't necessarily park police outside the barn, but we do give you a quarantine and all of the other horses
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Beth Ruby: that we feel has been exposed.
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Beth Ruby: and then those exposed horses will be tested at the time that we find the positive. And then again, in 60 days. That's about how long it takes for the disease to show up after a horse has been infected
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Beth Ruby: So that's a a big deal. If you're going to quarantine a a barn for 60 days, like I could see there's a lot of owners that are like. No, no, no, no, but that's the law they have to comply with right, and that's for the safety of the entire industry.
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Beth Ruby: I mean, you guys would not be okay if I let these exposed horses. Their report shows the horses races in the events, because if they haven't, you know they're not exposing your horse. And so for the safety of the industry. Yes, we we do quarantine all exposed horses, and it's a total inconvenient to me. That means
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so. That means races that means no competitions, no training.
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Beth Ruby: It's, you know it is definitely a hardship.
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Kris Hiney: Okay. So now that we have scared everybody, let's talk about the laws. And and you're going to talk about specifically some Oklahoma laws. And so there's some Federal laws, and then owners, because because people listen to our podcasts throughout the country.
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Kris Hiney: we want to be clear that your State laws may differ just a little bit. So maybe we should start with the laws that govern everybody. What are the Federal laws concerning E. I. A. And your Coggins test. So we always want to say a horse cannot get the disease, Coggins. There's no such thing. It's a Coggins test
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Beth Ruby: the test for Eia. So what is the Federal law about that? So actually, the only Federal law revolving on the Eia is that you cannot take a positive horse. or a reactor, they called reactors over state lines. So that is really the only
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Beth Ruby: Federal role. Now, the Usda has rules for accredited veterinarians for the veterians that can perform the test, and the Usda also has rules for labs that run the tests.
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Beth Ruby: So only accredited veterinarians can draw the blood and fill out the test form for a common test, and only a Usda approved lab can run an Eia test, and then, as far as
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Beth Ruby: regulations.
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Beth Ruby: what population gets tested when they get tested. What happens when you find a positive that is going to vary by State, and each State is going to have their own rules in order.
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Beth Ruby: They should.
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Kris Hiney: Okay. So the the main laws, then it has to be an accredited veterinarian. So that means it can't be a neighbor. I assume.
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Kris Hiney: Aren't all vets accredited, or they're like
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Beth Ruby: people that, hey? I'm a vet, and they're not a bit. Great question, Doctor, I mean, that's a great question. So we talk about licensed veininarians. So if you want to vet an area in that practice veterinary medicine, they have to be licensed. But when we talk about accreditation, accreditation is actually
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Beth Ruby: a type of certification done by the United States Department of Agriculture, and those veterinarians have to go through a certain amount of training that make sure they are familiar with all of the Federal laws that regulate livestock in some companion animals
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Beth Ruby: issues that mainly livestock diseases. And so it has to be an accredited veterinarian, since e I. A. Is a federally
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Beth Ruby: regulated disease program.
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Kris Hiney: So irony I just had Coggins drawn for a horse today. I certainly didn't ask her if she was a acreditted I just assumed. So I guess if they say yes, they'll do your coggins test that they're
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Beth Ruby: probably on the up and up, and really most of them are. And you actually cannot get the cognitive test forms or use the electronic Coggins test forms unless you are accredited. So that is regulated. So I mean, unless somebody's
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Beth Ruby: you know, out there swiping test forms.
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Beth Ruby: We're pretty sad, and I there's very few equine or large animal veterinarians out there that are not accredited
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it. Sorry.
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Kris Hiney: Gotcha, Gotcha, and just whoever invented the photos on the papers, you know. Well done. Well done. So
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Kris Hiney: I don't know if anybody remembers the days of drawing your horse. I don't even remember that you actually had to like 3 hand. Draw the horse. Yeah, you had to draw their markings on. And so, if you had to have like the little okay, I've got a a
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Kris Hiney: a sock in a blaze. But I have a paint horse like I. No, we still get a large number of the those charts.
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Beth Ruby: Yes, I am. I'm waiting for the day that they all go electronic, but we still get a lot of the the hand drawn picture. He has 10 to 11. So. And let me tell you, as the person that has to go out and identify a positive horse
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Beth Ruby: Please make sure that those are accurate because it's way easier for me to have an electronic one where there's an actual photo of the horse versus something that someone has drawn, so
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that that causes me a little bit of angst when i'm trying to identify a positive horse off of the hand drawn
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Beth Ruby: I
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picture
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Kris Hiney: right. So let's talk about State law. So some of the the general ones, I guess so. There are some tweaks between States and States, but pretty much every State to cross the State line. You have to have
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Kris Hiney: Coggins, and and it means you have to have it with you. Right? You can't just be like sorry.
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Beth Ruby: Trust me? You got it. So you need to have a copy of that, and and we really would suggest that you have a printed copy. So you know, it's it's technology is great. Now that we have these electronic
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Beth Ruby: test papers and your veterinarian can email it to you. You got it on your phone, but you just never know what's gonna happen, you know. Maybe your phone battery dies. Maybe your somewhere where you can't get reception, and you can't pull it up, so I always recommend that you travel with a printed copy.
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Beth Ruby: It's just a little bit easier also, you know, for those of us who are checking papers at events. We it is much easier for me to handle a paper copy, and then to try to be searching around on your phone
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Beth Ruby: all the weird pictures you got. Exactly.
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Kris Hiney: So okay. So we've got to have Coggins to go across State lines. Is it not also a rule to attend a Equine event? Is that pretty common across every State?
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Beth Ruby: Not every State majority, I would say, most states any time. There's what we call a mingling or co mingling of hroses. Anytime. You have horses from multiple owners or multiple locations coming together at one place.
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Beth Ruby: Most states have laws that say you have to have a negative comments for that, because that's how we're trying to prevent that natural spread.
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Beth Ruby: So so again. i'm definitely here outside the State.of Oklahoma. Really. If you're in Oklahoma, be familiar with what your State rules are. Usually it's posted on their web pages. Department of ag or animal health board, for it is gonna have those regulations posted.
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Kris Hiney: Okay, now give us our unique Oklahoma ones.
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Beth Ruby: So our unique Oklahoma ones, because we are fifth
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Beth Ruby: as doctor. I need help, you know. Fifth in the nation for a number of horses. We have a lot of horses in the State of Oklahoma. We also have a lot of livestock markets where horses can be sold. So for that reason, in Oklahoma any time there is a change of ownership
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Beth Ruby: for any equine. We're not just walking horses. We're also talking donkeys, mules, mini, horses, and zebras, anything that's crossed with the zebra those are all equine species, and they're all susceptible to Eia. So anytime we have a change of ownership. Those
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Beth Ruby: equine need to have proof of a negative Coggins within the past 12 months.
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Beth Ruby: and it's actually the responsibility of the seller to provide that. I will say as the buyer. You need to ask for that because you're protecting yourself and the rest of your herd. So if you are buying a horse, you need to ask for a Coggin. If you are selling a horse, you need to provide that.
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Kris Hiney: Okay? And I'm assuming not. Everybody knows that.
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Beth Ruby: Not if I was a little bit surprised. So I think a lot of people have the understand, or they believe
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Beth Ruby: a lot of people believe that you have to have a negative Coggins paper to transport a horse in a trailer, and and I've actually heard a lot of stories about, you know.
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Beth Ruby: If I get pulled over by the police, I have to have proof of a negative target that's actually not
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Beth Ruby: a law in Oklahoma. So I was actually talking to an equine veterinarian a couple of weeks ago, and and they made the comment: Well, it's not like you have to have a negative. to sell a horse in the State of Oklahoma and I was like, Wow! Now you do you actually do that the state law.
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Beth Ruby: then I really kind of got to thinking, and so I all the few other veterinarians that I know. And I was like, hey, you know, if you sell a horse in the state Oklahoma do you have to have a negative Coggins , and I was amazed how many of them were like?
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Beth Ruby: I don't know. Maybe I guess if you're asking me that, I probably do. It really brought to my wow, hey? I've I've failed a little bit here in my education of the public and of my accredited veterinarians.
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Beth Ruby: And so that's really kind of what was this that Dr. Heine? And I appreciate you helping us with this, because, you know, education is is key, and in on kind of it's good for me to know that we we need to get this information out there. So so it's not just the public it's it's also our veterinarians.
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Beth Ruby: So yeah, any the to break it down to make it easy
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Beth Ruby: as far as the laws in Oklahoma
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Beth Ruby: kind of 3 things. So change your ownership
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Beth Ruby: any co mingling. So if your is going to a boarding stable or a training stable, so any place that horses are going to be coming, or if you're going into an event, so
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Beth Ruby: whether that's you know they're all right. Rodeo
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Beth Ruby: race track. So any kind of event there, and that goes back to the comingling. Remember, you know, grouping together a bunch of horses that come from different locations.
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Beth Ruby: That's what we want to make sure that everybody's healthy and clean.
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Kris Hiney: But I could see why people would think that you have to have them to. You know, pop them on the trailer, because otherwise you're going for a very lonely trailer. Ride to end up somewhere completely by yourself.
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Beth Ruby: There are days that actually sounds pretty good to me.
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Beth Ruby: So any we we would say, if you're putting them on the trailer, just have the Coggins with you. So that was the safest thing to do, because you're right. You're put them on a trailer. You probably going somewhere where there's going to be other horses. So you know that's just an easy rule, of thumb, if you don't, because i'm on a trailer, make sure you got your Coggins in the truck with me so.
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Beth Ruby: and make sure it's up to date. Then you know the other plug I want to put in here is, you know, Don't. Wait until you know 3 days before that Coggins expires, and if you're one of those that has a false, positive, I just ruined your trip.
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Beth Ruby: So if we have one of those, you know non-negative, and it is, even if I can, you know, at 90%. Sure, it's a false positive.
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Beth Ruby: I can't let you move without it, and so that can really mess up people's plans.
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Kris Hiney: Okay? Well, are there any other fun horse health issues that have kind of cropped up or on your radar that we want people to know. About.
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Beth Ruby: Yeah. One other thing I want to kind of mention is when we talked about that high-risk population there's bush, track quarter horses, racing Quarter horses, and another disease that is spread.
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and by blood. Contamination is what we call piroplasmosis. That's a disease we actually do not have in the United States. So it's considered a forgein animal disease.
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Beth Ruby: It. It is endemic in Mexico, and so we do see these horses come up out of Mexico. That will be positive. And then
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Beth Ruby: through that misuse of needles and syringes, and I need to be, and that type of thing we will see that disease spread as well. It thankfully is treatable. It's very expensive to treat, and that is usually results in about a one year. Quarantine for the premises.
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But the biggest concern is
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Beth Ruby: if that we do it's spread by ticks. We do have tick species in the United States that are capable of carrying and spreading that. and if it would get into one of those species. It ticks
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Beth Ruby: and become endemic. In the United States it can have pretty horrific implications as far as international trade, so horses being able to leave the United States to go to other countries not. Do you know what species of tick carry piroplasmosis?
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Beth Ruby: I do not. I should. I do not off the top of my head. I have to look it up.
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Beth Ruby: Well, I can tell you. I was in Mexico last summer, and those poor horses, the amount of ticks on them. Oh, my goodness, it's horrifying! And we talked about piroplasmosis down there. It was. Yeah.
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Beth Ruby: Yeah, it's. But and again it's one of those that some horses get sick, some don't, some just get a little sick, get over it, and they can be life logn carriers so, and services as sources of infection. So that's one of their disease. It's definitely on our radar.
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Beth Ruby: If you think of any other that you guys are, you know, kind of the normal common stuff that goes around during heavy show season, and
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Beth Ruby: just how important it is to practice biosecurity, you know, Don't be using other people's, buckets or equipment. And
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Beth Ruby: yeah, our next episode is going to be about some youth programming on biosecurity that everybody can give it a whirl on their own. So that's great love that
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Kris Hiney: Well, I definitely appreciate your time here getting the chance to talk to one of our higher up veterinarians in the state, handling all our horse health and the birds. So I'm: good for the bars.
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Kris Hiney: Yeah, it is so well again, really appreciate all the information that you shared with us about equine infectious anemia, how it's transmitted, and best practices. They stay
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Kris Hiney: current and legal. So any final thoughts for us, Dr. Ruby.