Dr. Erika Machtinger, Dr. Danielle Smarsh and Laura Kenney, all of Penn State University guide horse owner's through a discussion on ticks. From disease they carry, the environments they live in and how to properly pick them off. If you have horses and ever venture out to trail ride - tick checks are for you!
Dr. Erika Machtinger, Dr. Danielle Smarsh and Laura Kenney, all of Penn State University guide horse owner's through a discussion on ticks. From disease they carry, the environments they live in and how to properly pick them off. If you have horses and ever venture out to trail ride - tick checks are for you!
Kris Hiney: Welcome to extension horses, tack box talk series horse stories with a purpose. I'm. Your host, Dr. Kris Hiney, with Oklahoma State University. and today we're going to be talking about ticks. So I've brought 3 guests to the program today that all are either specialists and researchers in parasites, or have done a lot of work in educating the public about ticks.
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Kris Hiney: So coming all from Pennsylvania State University. We have Dr. Daniels Smarsh. So welcome, Danielle. Thank you, Kris Laura Beth Kenny, Welcome back, Laura, Hi thanks for having us
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Erika T. Machtinger: and Dr. Erica Machtinger, which you are our parasite specialists. Correct? That's well, I hope so. Yeah.
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Kris Hiney: So I think if you guys want to refer back, it's almost been a couple of years now I think that we did flies and kind of some of the the big external pests that we did with you. Correct.
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Erika T. Machtinger: Yeah, yeah, it's been. It's been a little bit. I don't know Covid kind of screwed up my sense of timing a little bit. But yeah.
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Kris Hiney: yeah, I don't. I don't know either, but we can reference people back to those show notes. So instead of talking about flying it parasites for horses. Today.
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Kris Hiney: we're going to talk about the crawling kind which add to the to me the ick factor a little bit. So we're going to talk about ticks, and maybe just start with the general question: Why should horse owners be concerned about ticks?
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Danielle Smarsh: There's certainly a number of diseases that we find our horses can be susceptible to. So we are all based in Pennsylvania. As you mentioned. So again, we will try not to focus just on Pennsylvania. But Lyme and Anaplasmosis are to
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Danielle Smarsh: diseases, and our horses that we can find are transmitted by ticks. And certainly in the case of Lyme disease, that is not just a disease that our horses can get. We humans can get it. Our dogs can get it. So there is kind of a broader concern for health. One of those one health issues with Lyme.
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Danielle Smarsh: Eric. I'll let you jump in with any others.
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Erika T. Machtinger: Yeah, sure. So obviously there's a little bit of an East coast biasi when we talk about ticks and and pathogens that are associated with ticks, even with with people. But
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Erika T. Machtinger: so lyme disease, anaplasmosis are generally a little bit regional. We see them in the northeast midwest, a little bit in kind of the
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Erika T. Machtinger: California area.
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Erika T. Machtinger: depending on where you are. But there are other pathogens that can cause diseases or conditions that are transmitted by ticks. So equine piroplasmosis, and equimibesiosis can also be transmitted by ticks, and and the tricky part with those is that
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Erika T. Machtinger: there have been many, many tick species that have been associated with those particular pathogens so unlike lyme disease, which is associated with the black leg a tick, equine piroplasmosis, and be the be Us. This can be associated with ticks from the generate Germa center, recephalus
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Erika T. Machtinger: hi lorama, because the other one. So there's a there's a few other ticks that are of concern in other areas of the country, and then there are ticks that may not cause pathogens, or may not have pathogens that cause diseases, but may be responsible for
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Erika T. Machtinger: exsanguination. For example, we haven't really seen this here in the United just like it. But you get enough ticks on a horse and that they can basically suck it's blood out. So
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Erika T. Machtinger: we've seen this. I got okay, how many ticks Would that be? It would have to be a lot of ticks? I will tell you, because we don't normally see it, even in white tail deer in the northeast, where we see a lot of ticks on this year they can usually handle quite a few ticks, so this would be have to be an animal that somebody is not paying a lot of attention to.
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Erika T. Machtinger: But it can happen.
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Erika T. Machtinger: And so it's something we definitely want to look out for. So yeah, this there's a bunch of, you know the pahtgen inside of it. There's this dermal side of it
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Erika T. Machtinger: that we have to worry about. You know, tick by the horse. There's a hole in the horse's body, so there's potentially a big infection side of it. So there's there's a bunch of reasons we should be concerned.
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Kris Hiney: I'm gonna i'm gonna back way up to I'm. Not a tick expert. And so you said a black legged tick, and then you said a whole bunch of words like oh, my goodness! So for for a non tick tick expert like is the average person going to be able to be like. Here's a tick on my horse, and I know what kind of tick is, because I kinda i'm gonna say they look a lot of like to me.
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Erika T. Machtinger: Oh, Daniel, you're not a You're not a tick person necessarily. even though you do will tick, so that's probably a good question for you like. If you saw a tick on a horse, would you be able to?
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Danielle Smarsh: So I say I, I would be familiar with that. Something like a dog tick right from pulling those if it was, especially if it was engorged when they have not fed, and they're not adults if we're talking like so. The the tick has several life stages, right? So if we're talking like a nymph, yeah, I would not be able to even an adult again if it's engorged that might help me a little bit to kind of see the markings on its app now.
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Danielle Smarsh: but I would freely meant most of the time. I would probably be turning to either Erica or you know we have, an there's resources across the country to help you identify the ticks.
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Danielle Smarsh: I think it's being aware, at least. of what a tick is versus like a different
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Danielle Smarsh: creature you might like, you know. I don't know, thinking like a 6 legged insect or something. You know that a tick is a tick, right? That i'm finding, and that some other sort of pest on that horse.
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Erika T. Machtinger: Yeah, it's a really great point that we do have
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Erika T. Machtinger: across the country. We have extension services, you know. We've got State veterinary services that can help with tick identification, or can find somebody who can help with tick identification. So
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Erika T. Machtinger: it's not. You know it's helpful to know these ticks and and to understand what you have in your area. So you know the risks. but you don't necessarily have to be able to id them if you find it on your horse you have help.
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Kris Hiney: so how how important is it? So? You know I'm just thinking about my scenario. We've got ticks in Oklahoma. I don't know if you knew that or not, but
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Kris Hiney: they're everywhere, and we don't really have winter to slow them down much so when it's like a whole lot of ticks. it's like a 100 ticks on my horse is is my If I gonna go find my livestock parasitologist and be like here all my ticks, what can you do for me? Is it that critical for us to be able to know
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Kris Hiney: which one of these little suckers are on there.
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Danielle Smarsh: That's a good question. Yeah. And we, I think Eric and I both, and probably Laura. We all get that question from the general public. I was thinking just last week we had a Webinar, and someone was asking, do I have to go and collect every single tick that i'm finding on my horse and get it tested like, what do I do?
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Danielle Smarsh: And I don't think it's a good answer for the public. Really, I think it depends. Like, is your horse symptomatic with something? Are you concerned? Does this horse have a history in the past or other horses on the farm. I know there's some people that just like to know everything so sure. But you know, I think it depends on the situation i'll let Erica chime in on her thoughts.
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Erika T. Machtinger: Yeah, it does. Depends on the situation. This is why, knowing what ticks could be in your area is important. Not necessarily.
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Erika T. Machtinger: You don't have to always know at that moment what's on your horse. But what could be? So you know what you're at risk for. So in Oklahoma you may. Your horse may be more at risk for having like spinosis ear tick.
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Erika T. Machtinger: or something like that. Right. We don't have that in the northeast. The spinosis ear tick is going to cause you to shake its head and be upset. Not necessarily transmit any pathogens of concern. So you don't necessarily need to
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Erika T. Machtinger: collect all the ticks. If you kind of have an idea of what your risk is, and and
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Erika T. Machtinger: are comfortable with that risk.
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Erika T. Machtinger: but I would say that it is important to
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Erika T. Machtinger: understand a little bit about that risk before you make those judgments right? So in the northeast. We get those questions because we have black legged ticks, and our horses have which study came out
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Erika T. Machtinger: relatively recently. So like almost 80 of horses here have been exposed to Borrelia, which causes Lyme disease. That's an incredible risk. That may be a much lower risk in Oklahoma, where I know you have exodus, but they're not necessarily black leg it takes, but they're not necessarily
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Erika T. Machtinger: on the horses. So I think it it just depends on on where you are and what that risk is, how much involvement you need in identifying those ticks.
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Kris Hiney: So it isn't a black legged tick, though me making a little bit of a march across the country.
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Erika T. Machtinger: So there are some really important changes in
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Erika T. Machtinger: tick
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Erika T. Machtinger: distributions that are currently under way. We have Lone Star ticks, which are very, very common in the South, moving up to the north, black legged ticks which are are Lyme Disease associated ticks moving north, that we have those ticks being recorded in counties
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Erika T. Machtinger: that they haven't previously been recorded in.
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Erika T. Machtinger: However.
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Erika T. Machtinger: ticks don't carry these pathogens by themselves. Right so an adult female tick is not going to have lay a whole bunch of eggs, and all of those immature ticks are going to emerge with the same pathogens, and so they don't just inherently have those pathogens
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Erika T. Machtinger: in order for those ticks to transmit those pathogens that cause a disease. They have to have the pathogen and the system in the environment. 200 and
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Erika T. Machtinger: and the hosts that they feed on that are the carriers of those pathogens. So there's a what we call a reservoir host. So in the northeast we have a ton of white footed mice and chipmunks and birds, and they're great carriers for those pathogens in Oklahoma and some other areas. They they don't have
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Erika T. Machtinger: such good reservoirs. And so those pathogens are nearly as common where the ticks feed on different hosts. So, just because the ticks in the area doesn't mean that the pathogen is there as well.
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Kris Hiney: I've seen them. You do have Birds. That's right. I was also going to add in Chris, Not only, I mean the add Erica is like. Not only are they some of the tick spreading across country, but some people are seeing them emerge earlier in the seasons, right like
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Danielle Smarsh: It's been absurdly hot this past week in Pennsylvania like summer weather, and it's only mid April. So we definitely get people reporting ticks on there. horses and on themselves. It feels like depending on how the winter is gone, or how the seasons are going sometimes much earlier than
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Danielle Smarsh: historically.
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Kris Hiney: Yeah. And like, if if we don't have any cold to knock them back, ours are creepy crawling around all the time, it's amazing what these little suckers can do.
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All right. I want to get Laura into the conversation a little bit here so.
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Kris Hiney: and we'll bounce back and forth a little bit. I know you guys did some work with just surveying horse owners about them, finding ticks on their horses. So is it pretty much like a 100% of owners find ticks on horses, or
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Kris Hiney: do a lot of owners even know their support, or should look for ticks on their horses.
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Laura Beth Kenny: Yeah. So we did this survey. Gosh! A year or 2 ago it was really massive. We had a great response rate. We had about 3,000 responses come back in from across the country.
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Laura Beth Kenny: So we have been looking very closely at the Pennsylvania data, and soon we will delve into the national data, too. But there's very much. There's a lot of it. We about almost 900 responses from Pennsylvania.
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Laura Beth Kenny: and we asked all sorts of questions. You know. Are you finding ticks. How concerned are you about ticks? Where do you turn your horses out, you know. Are they in high risk areas? And so I guess, for a general overview of what we found.
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Laura Beth Kenny: We had about 70% of people turning their horses out in or near a forested area
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Laura Beth Kenny: which, for our ticks, tends to be a pretty high risk area for them to latch onto the horses.
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Laura Beth Kenny: We had 38% with confirmed Lyme disease cases in their horses. We had a more that suspected it. But it wasn't confirmed by a veterinarian. A little bit less 28% had confirmed anaplasmosis.
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Laura Beth Kenny: Some People were pretty confident in recognizing the signs of Lyme disease in their horse. But we were not very confident at all about recognizing anoplasmosis. and 69% were very or extremely concerned about their horses contracting a tick-borne disease.
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Laura Beth Kenny: So it's it's really on everybody's minds here in Pennsylvania.
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Kris Hiney: So can we talk about those diseases. Then a little bit more so, and and I would love to go through some of the the symptoms and signs, because I thought like limes is like. Well, if you can't figure out what else is going on. Maybe it's Lyme's disease, right? So what what might be some indicators that the animal actually has that?
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Laura Beth Kenny: Yeah, i'll let Erica chim in here. I think she's done more with this. but it can be it can be difficult to diagnose.
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Erika T. Machtinger: Yeah. So
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Erika T. Machtinger: I haven't really. So you know I have to put a kind of a qualifier. I am a veterinary entomologist, not a veterinarian, so I am not diagnosing, and and I usually try to be very clear about that.
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Erika T. Machtinger: because we get a lot of questions not only from the
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Erika T. Machtinger: the animal side, but also from the the human side. People want to know, because it's similar questions. So what I, from what I do know it can be incredibly difficult to
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Erika T. Machtinger: not only diagnosed, but also treat Lyme. because it's.
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Erika T. Machtinger: and I do. Okay. So i'm going to add to this is kind of a weird thing. This is a little bit of a PET view of mine, and I give people like
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Erika T. Machtinger: when I give talks a a slide on this. So a little bit of a history of Lyme Disease. It was discovered in around the 19 eighties early 19 eighties in Lyme, Connecticut, and one of the things I hear very often is, this makes absolutely No.
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Erika T. Machtinger: There's no reason why this should bother me, but it does that. It is Lyme, Connecticut, not lines Connecticut. I just. I like to make that very clear. It's not plural, and they don't own it because it's now everywhere. But so it it can be very difficult to diagnose. Lyme
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Erika T. Machtinger: Horses do kind of have different symptoms, or I guess they call it signs and horses where they they may be lethargic. They may have kind of undiagnosed or an undis like
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Erika T. Machtinger: it can't really determine where they're laying the kind of generalized body soreness. This can be really different from something like anaplasmosis which has pretty characteristic symptoms like a high fever and lethargy. We don't have very good tests for for Lyme disease
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Erika T. Machtinger: diagnosis either. This is across the board really, for human horses, dogs the the bacterium that we deal with is
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Erika T. Machtinger: a very strange critter that can hide out in places, and may or may not present itself. It doesn't particularly like blood. It likes to hang out in tissue a lot of the times when we're testing wild animals, we use skin biopsies instead of
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Erika T. Machtinger: blood tests. So yeah, it can be really really challenging, and it it is in that kind of. If you can't figure it out. Well, let's put them on some sort of antibiotic, and see if that helps which is not great. But we don't have a lot of resources going to.
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Erika T. Machtinger: you know, fund projects trying to evaluate better methods of diagnosis, and part of that is because we're still trying to put those funds into doing it for people.
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Erika T. Machtinger: And so we we just don't. Have. You don't have that ability yet.
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Kris Hiney: but wouldn't the same test in a in a human be able to pick it up in an animal. If it's all about
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Erika T. Machtinger: identifying the bacterium, you would. Yeah. So. But the problem is a lot of people Don't
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Erika T. Machtinger: and I don't really know. Again, this is not. I'm not a medical doctor either. But when we test our animals it to get a confirmed positive
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Erika T. Machtinger: like, I said, we're doing skin biopsies
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Erika T. Machtinger: people don't generally like that, or we're taking spleen, and we're looking at spleens, and and that can be not. It could be a non-starter if somebody says can. I take a a spleen biopsy to test you for for Lyme disease. Let's let's
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Erika T. Machtinger: a little tricky. So there are good ways, or there are more accurate ways of diagnosing. But the current ways we have which are usually
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Erika T. Machtinger: looking at. We're using a license or things like that are are not extremely accurate, and you know Lyme can do where the bacterium could do very strange things where it can hide out to, so it can hide, and people go into kind of a pseudo remission, and then it can pop up again.
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Erika T. Machtinger: and I know honestly, I honestly don't know if that happens in horses, too. I don't. I don't. I don't know if we know enough about it in horses.
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Kris Hiney: Yeah, I mean, I'm just familiar with all of the dog people I know, and and that's pretty common If you have these can't figure it out. You just throw them on doxy, and then, like it may or may not go away, and then they may seem like they have it again. So I think it's a
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Kris Hiney: It's pretty tricky to figure out
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Kris Hiney: so so essentially
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Kris Hiney: lots of horses could be exposed to Lyme disease
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Kris Hiney: from ticks. But is it like our epm, where a lot of horses are exposed? But Don't necessarily
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Kris Hiney: ever have the disease.
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Erika T. Machtinger: and I don't honestly know how how much we know about that, I mean, i'd have to say, based on our numbers of of horses that have been diagnosed, and horses that have been exposed just in Pennsylvania just taking our, You know our survey numbers based on the
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Erika T. Machtinger: the veterinary assessments that have just come out, that it Logically, it seems to be the case that there they have an antibody response.
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Erika T. Machtinger: We we know mice can
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Erika T. Machtinger: cure, if you will, self cure with an an immune response over time, so Perhaps horses can do the same.
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Erika T. Machtinger: or they're not getting infected with enough of the bacterium to to make it a problem.
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Erika T. Machtinger: But I I I honestly don't know if we know enough about it. The folks at Cornell who study this they're probably like, Of course we do, we? Of course we know that, but I don't know enough to be able to answer that.
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Danielle Smarsh: Yeah, I would, echo Erica. I I I mean, maybe Cornell does. Maybe they do know if I feel like.
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Danielle Smarsh: at least for my. We just don't know enough. I don't think
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Danielle Smarsh: it seems like based on some of the research that many have been exposed, but
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Danielle Smarsh: it's such a funny disease, the symptoms, and what it happens. So
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Danielle Smarsh: it's possible. I don't know they they're i'm sure individual variation on how each
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Danielle Smarsh: course or human or dog react to this
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Danielle Smarsh: pathogen
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Okay.
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Kris Hiney: So bottom line we don't want the ticks biting them. So i'm going to go back to Laura. You said the biggest risk for owners was if the horse was in a forest.
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Kris Hiney: I mean, is it a forest, or like, if they've got a few trees in their pasture. What level of like
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Kris Hiney: risk and pack string horses, or what are we? I guess if I had to design a horse pasture, what kind do I want? So it doesn't get ticks.
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Laura Beth Kenny: So the biggest thing you want to avoid is like the understory. So the brush, the tall grass that's where ticks can go to hang out and sort of
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Laura Beth Kenny: try to attach themselves to a horse as they walk by and brush against that grass.
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Laura Beth Kenny: so i'll. I can let it jump in to add any more. But typically what we would recommend is making sure your pastures are mowed so that they're not. You know you don't want to mow them down to nothing but don't let that grass get super super tall, and also, if you do have a forested habitat on the other side of your fence.
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Laura Beth Kenny: Try to keep a mowed buffer for a a strip
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Laura Beth Kenny: between your fence and that forest, just to help keep the ticks and the mice and everything that can carry these pathogens farther from your pasture.
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Erika T. Machtinger: Yeah. So thinking about
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Erika T. Machtinger: those are excellent recommendations.
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Erika T. Machtinger: but thinking about from a national or even international level. that it it so ticks, don't it. Don't do well always in in the bright sunlight
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Erika T. Machtinger: and drying out. They actually dehydrate really, really easily, and so they like to crawl into places that are going to keep them hydrated.
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Erika T. Machtinger: And so that's why that understory is so important, and those tall grasses are so important for them is that they can crawl back under where the micro climate is much more humid.
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Erika T. Machtinger: rehydrate, and then go back up and start looking for for hosts again. But different species of ticks are going to be found in different areas, just their their different biology, so like black legged ticks are going to be found more in forests or kind of those edge areas between forest and and pastures
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Erika T. Machtinger: where you're gonna find other ticks like longhorn ticks or American dog ticks, maybe more in those grassy, grassy areas. So pasture base, not necessarily even edges of them, but just tall grasses.
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Erika T. Machtinger: So it depends a little bit on where you are. It depends on the on the ticks. But if you've got low grass and you're far away from the woods, chances are You're you're going to be much less at risk.
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Erika T. Machtinger: Then, if you're in the woods or bordering the woods with really tall grass.
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Kris Hiney: So kind of what jumped in my mind. And and you guys talking about that is
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Kris Hiney: well, what if you want to go trail riding, which pretty much often is through some tall grass or so brush, or forest like. Should you just give that up and ride in a circle in the dirt?
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Erika T. Machtinger: No, you do not have to become a dressage rider just to avoid. But
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Erika T. Machtinger: no, no, it says, I think the key here is, for all of these, is all these questions. All these
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Erika T. Machtinger: thoughts is is, you have to know when you're going to be at risk.
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Erika T. Machtinger: if you know you're at risk, you're better able to protect yourself
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Erika T. Machtinger: right. So like when we go on a roller coaster, we know we're at risk. So we put on a seat belt. It's the same idea. If you understand the risks, you're more likely to be able to prevent those risks. So if you're going out on a trail ride, maybe I should put on some repellent or some other protective, or make sure I do a tick check when I get back to make sure that I remove any ticks that I see.
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Erika T. Machtinger: So so you make those part of your routine. You don't avoid places, but you understand the risk.
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So what repellent actually works against a tick?
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Erika T. Machtinger: I'm glad I was on mute, because I just scoffed. So okay
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Erika T. Machtinger: as of right. Now, we don't have a conclusive answer. We have repellents that are labeled for ticks, which means that they have in a lab been tested
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Erika T. Machtinger: to be of some use at repelling ticks. Now they say generic ticks, so I don't know what ticks they use. I don't know what's species. I don't know what life stage. I know nothing about the testing that happened, but because they they do have those tests. They can say it's labeled for ticks. We've done a little bit of work in this
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Erika T. Machtinger: sphere. and as postdoc of mine who who did a lot of this work, and we actually use the repellents on courses and looked at tick, repellent behavior
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Erika T. Machtinger: and basically the level of active ingredient of per methron, which is what we have a lot of our, a lot of our
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Erika T. Machtinger: like fly sprays. General Fly sprays. The level that you would need to repel the ticks consistently is at a level that would pretty much literally burn the skin off your horse, based on what we saw, so
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Erika T. Machtinger: not ideal.
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Erika T. Machtinger: But that was just the active alone. I I currently have a a undergrad who's just finishing up? Who's gonna be headed off to Cornell Vet School this year?
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Erika T. Machtinger: Very excited for her. She just finishing up a study, looking at a couple off the shelf, repellents and their effectiveness, and has leaning towards we Haven't done any data, analyses yet, or anything advanced. So this is purely anecdotal. But we've starting to see that our fatty acid repellent
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Erika T. Machtinger: is is actually quite effective.
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Erika T. Machtinger: So currently that's the one that we recommend for fly control as well, or flight as a fly repellent. So it's kind of convenient that it may also work for ticks.
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Erika T. Machtinger: So Can you just code them in olive oil and call it good? I've heard people say that I've heard people say that I've heard people say no. They say, I use mineral oil, and I got it on trail rights. And you know I I I worry from a purely parasite perspective.
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Erika T. Machtinger: Okay, maybe that works. But we know so much about heat and tendon health. and you know, if you don't wash it off, and they're out in the sun, it can burn them. And so it's just.
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Erika T. Machtinger: I. I worry about the secondary impacts to them more so than I would about just looking for ticks when you're done.
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Kris Hiney: So Danielle and and Laura. I know you guys do a lot of owner education, and so you and and Erger. You just said that you do tick checks when you're done, and literally my experience, and literally never took the horses back there again. I was horrified.
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Kris Hiney: Is that
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Kris Hiney: there are so many like you can't even like, Get them off, because there's this cloud of tiny ticks
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Kris Hiney: crawling all over the horse crawling over you. And
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Kris Hiney: mostly you want to go screaming to a chemical shower like so say like, remove the ticks when you know the kind of talk about the tiny little nasty ones like you can't just be like. Oh, there's a tick like everywhere
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Erika T. Machtinger: a whole bunch of seed ticks.
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Danielle Smarsh: Yeah, I mean it's this is it's it's hard right because it's Erica said. You know we really terms on the we all just want something that's this magical product that you put on your horse, and it lasts for days and repels everything, and that's there that does not exist at this point on the market.
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Danielle Smarsh: You know even what Eric has seen with the the oil shoots. I mean. You still need to reply that periodically so. I think we can still say, you know, for the average horse owner you know, we would still encourage doing kick checks and think about some of the management practices.
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Danielle Smarsh: We're still doing some research. Here are the 3 of us looking at, maybe using some various types of like for that include like fly boots and fly masks, and maybe that could help as well. And I don't think
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Danielle Smarsh: I don't think you're ever going to find necessarily every single tick on a horse of every life stage, and maybe maybe, Erica, if i'm wrong. But I kind of think like with parasites right where you know it. It's like having a completely
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Danielle Smarsh: free horse of all these ticks is maybe not always going to happen, but we can. You know it's better to be checking and trying some of these other
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Danielle Smarsh: preventative ways, whether it's mechanical, or you know, and farm management aspects than just being like. I give up like i'm done, because
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Danielle Smarsh: what's the fun in that with your horse? If you refuse to ever go out on a trail, ride or do anything fun with your horse, so I would say, Still, try to do tick checks, you know they can to to learn how to do them, and I think with with with anything, with practice. Things come easier if you make a part of your routine care of your horse.
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Danielle Smarsh: it's not so scary. And I again. Are you gonna find every tick? No. But are you gonna find ticks? Yes, and that's gonna be helpful still to help you protect your horse
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Kris Hiney: if I find one tick. It may not be the end of the world. Then.
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Erika T. Machtinger: Well, yeah, and and with yours that with that
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Erika T. Machtinger: kind of image that you gave us correct. So. And you know, in in many parts of the country that are not the northeast
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Erika T. Machtinger: there are other species of ticks, Lone Star ticks, for example, which is very common in in Oklahoma, where you are, but also in the South that have those what we call tick bombs. That's what they call them. They're They're a a ball of 3,000 larvae
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Erika T. Machtinger: that are just hanging out waiting for a host. I have run into a tick bomb myself before I just. I didn't know what I was getting myself into, and it was horrifying.
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Erika T. Machtinger: and Lone Star takes a very, very aggressive. Takes most ticks you're gonna find on your horse are going to be adults, and so that I I've been speaking to adult ticks
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Erika T. Machtinger: because
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Erika T. Machtinger: that's normally what you find They adult ticks look for host. They are a little bit larger to feed off of. So those smaller ticks, those seed ticks that you find
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Erika T. Machtinger: are not going to necessarily be a a a pathogen problem, a disease problem for your horse, because they don't have any. And so it's just unlucky that you've got kind of run into the the bomb of ticks that are on your animal.
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Erika T. Machtinger: and in those cases you usually can use something like a brush, or like a put like fly spray, or something on a brush and and brush them off. Or some people even use like
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Erika T. Machtinger: really, really cheap
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Erika T. Machtinger: lint rollers, something like that where you can just kind of like roll them off Nothing that's really too sticky because you just want to like. Roll them off right. But there have been other. There are other ways to get rid of those when you see just those massive numbers coming on up from the ground to your horse.
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But that's atypical.
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Erika T. Machtinger: If you're just going to be, you know, a horse owner throwing your person in a pasture and going for a ride, it's it's usually not going to always be the the case where you come back with these with these tick bombs it can happen, but most of the repellent and things that we're talking about have been towards the adults working for zoom and not those immatures. If you have repellents generally, those
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can be effective. The smaller the tick.
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Erika T. Machtinger: But again. I make no promises. So
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Kris Hiney: yeah, I think I should invite you guys all to come trail riding in Oklahoma, so you can experience the swarms of ticks that
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Kris Hiney: you can have, so I mean it's literally. If you walk through tall grass you do have to like, All right. Let's try to find all these tiny little nasty things that are crawling all over you
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Laura Beth Kenny: and Erica, You put together a tick check kit that we actually sell on our extension website. So if somebody wanted to build themselves a kit, what what did you include in that?
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Erika T. Machtinger: Yeah. So we had a a tick Id card, and this was regional to Pennsylvania, but it it's.
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Erika T. Machtinger: Most of these ticks are found throughout the country, but we had a card. We had a a little plastic baggy that people can put the ticks in in case they want to get them tested. If there's a particular tick
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Erika T. Machtinger: around that they may want to get tested. A pair of sharp forceps or tweezers, so you can remove the tick, because there is a very specific way to do that easy but specific way to do that.
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Erika T. Machtinger: and some people like magnifying glass or flashlight that can be really helpful. If you're looking on the back end of the horse, or between their legs where it gets kind of dark. So flashlight could help with those things, and it's a really simple thing. I throw it my grooming kit, and I always have it. I actually
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Erika T. Machtinger: shocked me. I'm like oh, I have this, and I took it. Take off my mare not too long ago, and it was everything was right there, and it's great.
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Kris Hiney: so I guess we've been. You know. I've been horrifying everybody with the the swarms of ticks that you can just see crawling everywhere, but we probably should talk about where you should look on your horse for the the normal ticks and not the crazy Oklahoma ticks form. So we're the most likely places
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Kris Hiney: to look for ticks.
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Erika T. Machtinger: Daniel, or Laura, do you want to talk about the heat maps that we saw?
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Danielle Smarsh: Yeah, it's gonna say, Laura, i'll let you.
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Laura Beth Kenny: Yeah, I'm gonna pull it up. We had a question on our survey
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Laura Beth Kenny: Where? We asked. We we showed a picture of a horse, and we said, please click on the most likely place that you would find a tick on your horse. I think we did the top top 3,
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Laura Beth Kenny: and so it did actually vary by region because different types of ticks like to attach in different places.
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Laura Beth Kenny: So in our Pennsylvania
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Laura Beth Kenny: group, the highest, the most like the biggest hotspots. It was really neat visual, because it shows you like a big red hotspot where the most people clicked. So the biggest hotspots in Pennsylvania were under the horses jaw, right so like the between his jaw and his mouth
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Laura Beth Kenny: on the horse's chest.
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Laura Beth Kenny: And then there are some smaller spots between the elbows or between the front legs. Between the backlegs, was another big hotspot
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Laura Beth Kenny: on the tailbone and the front legs.
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Laura Beth Kenny: So that's sort of your your northeastern ticks.
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Laura Beth Kenny: Then i'd actually have to pull it up to take a look at where
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Laura Beth Kenny: the other ones were. So you'd have to give me a second to do that
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Kris Hiney: I can tell you. Oklahoma.
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Laura Beth Kenny: Yeah, more
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Kris Hiney: ours like to be. We get manes, and then we're chest between the legs and tail. That's kinda in my n of me, i'll tell you that's where my ticks hang out.
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Erika T. Machtinger: Yeah, that was. That was really interesting, because we we did see like kind of the northeastern ticks very much the jaw
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Erika T. Machtinger: all that was very much the job, I mean. There's a couple of things other places, but very much the head, and and
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Erika T. Machtinger: in some of these other regions we definitely saw that kind of main or or lower half of the body.
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Laura Beth Kenny: Yeah, the other question was, Name the top 10 places you find ticks, and basically the whole horse was red, so they they really can be found any where.
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Laura Beth Kenny: especially especially depending on where you are where those particular ticks like to attach.
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Kris Hiney: So what she's kind of thinking about when people are pulling ticks off of horses? Do they have to worry about
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Kris Hiney: disease transmission themselves like. Can you just pull them off, or are you supposed to wear gloves, and then, like they don't die when you pull them off. So right you need to have some bricks to smash them. Or is there a or a logical way? Can't really drown them because they'll climb right out of the bucket like what is the best way to make them be deceased.
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Erika T. Machtinger: Oh, my gosh! That is so funny! Because I used to take some sort of weird, sick joy and killing the ticks after I pulled them off. But but yeah, so it's okay. So the best way to remove a tick and lots of people to these different ways
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Erika T. Machtinger: is to get a pair of tweezers or 4 steps, or even one of those tick keys or tick tornadoes that can be really helpful with the horse. As for to not get
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Erika T. Machtinger: your force, it's caught up in fur, but to to grab the tick as close as you can to the skin.
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Erika T. Machtinger: and just pull out. Pull back very, very slowly and gently until it pops off it's very straightforward. It's super easy. The reason we have you grab in that very specific area is because if you, if you try and pull from the abdomen.
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Erika T. Machtinger: you potentially are pushing pathogens that tick may have back into your horse because it's still it's mouth. Parts are still in your animal, and you don't want to squeeze or have it regurgitate into your animal. You don't want to smother the tick for the same reason.
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Erika T. Machtinger: I've heard people talk about with just themselves like burning it off, or using nail, polish, remover all sorts of crazy things. No, no, no.
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Erika T. Machtinger: this Use a pair 4 steps, pull it off, and just try and get as close to the skin as you can. There's no reason
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Erika T. Machtinger: to worry about. You can wear gloves if it makes you feel better. But you don't have to worry about pathogen transmission. Once that takes out, it needs to bite you and have a somewhat intimate relationship with your blood vessels in order to
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Erika T. Machtinger: transmit any pathogens. So once it's out
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Erika T. Machtinger: you're fine.
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Erika T. Machtinger: The best thing you can do is flush it down the toilet, stick it in the freezer, or send it out for testing. If you are are really like
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Erika T. Machtinger: upset at the tick for biting your horse, i'm sure there's some other ways that you could. You could stick a pen in it, you can cut it in half. There's a whole bunch of like really morbid things you can do to this stick. But if you're just looking to get rid of it.
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Erika T. Machtinger: you know, if you want to get a tested having having that ticket with some plastic bags and a pen nearby, so you can write the information down. It's great, but then, once it's out, it's fine. Horses can develop nodules at the site where the tick was, which is not a problem. It's just you know it's immune response versus immune response
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Erika T. Machtinger: reacting to that. And so I just watch that site, and if I have any concerns. I I contact my bit.
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Kris Hiney: Okay, we like to use fire or smashing. That's our favorite
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Kris Hiney: to die. So what else do we need to share with our owners. because I I I definitely think, you know, trying to remove all of them. It can be an overwhelming task like that could be
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Kris Hiney: again. And maybe we're just lucky here, you know, when you go out to look at them. There's so many of them, you know, rather than riding a horse. You're just going to be like. Well, I guess i'm pulling your ticks off
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Kris Hiney: so it I mean, if you do it every day like, how often
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Kris Hiney: do you need to do it to keep them at bay.
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Danielle Smarsh: I think again, the answer would be, it really depends. It depends on your level of comfort or uncomfortableness with the ticks, you know I I I do think, you know, especially after
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Danielle Smarsh: Lauren Eric, I've been working together for a few years. That again tick checks are should be kind of your routine thing when you measure, you know. If you're checking your V's body condition, score, or grooming them like, do it just a quick, tick check. It doesn't take more than maybe 10 min. I mean it. And if you really are only focusing on like you're like, I always find ticks under the jaw, you know. Doesn't take that long.
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Danielle Smarsh: you know. I don't it's not like there's 0 defense against ticks, right, you know. There are different strategies here. So
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Danielle Smarsh: I think, just being aware of of the ticks in your areas, as Eric has mentioned, and you know, potential diseases. And I think the situation is, if your horse
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Danielle Smarsh: he's unhealthy, and maybe displaying some of those symptoms, or, as we said, commonly such with Lyme, it's just you sort of rule everything else out, and you're like Well, let's just just check for for Lyme. I guess they're cheap for lyme. So again.
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Danielle Smarsh: being with your worst things, you're going to be outside, so you're in that kind of risk area. But depends again. Are you out trail riding a lot? Are you in an outdoor arean
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Laura Beth Kenny: yeah, and remember that there are things you can do on the farm as well for horses that are turned out. If you're worried about it, you know you make sure you
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Laura Beth Kenny: keep your grass mowed. Give yourself that that
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Laura Beth Kenny: that offer between woods and your pastures. There are chemicals. You can spray on the landscape if you know you have a massive tick problem to help keep them out of your pastures, so things that you would spray on the other side of the fence. So there are some things you can do at home as well to reduce
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Laura Beth Kenny: the risk of a tick getting on your horse and biting it.
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Kris Hiney: But but I think the maybe the good lesson. Is Don't panic
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Kris Hiney: right? So they are part of the
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Kris Hiney: the environment, right? I don't think there's any way you could completely prevent them. And so, seeing one tick is not caused to like, make an appointment, or put them on treatment or anything like that.
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Kris Hiney: So I have to share my one little story, and he listens to the podcast. He'll probably chuckle that he hears himself on it. But so, my husband, what he's fortunate or unfortunate Really, it's unfortunate that he got the tick-borne disease where you develop the allergy to red meat.
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Kris Hiney: Yeah. So so yeah, I for us. And so we have a eaten meet here forever, but but because of that he is so paranoid about ticks, and i'm always like Well, we already have it. How much we're gonna get. Let it go, let it go.
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Erika T. Machtinger: That is, the tricky part is getting
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Erika T. Machtinger: is getting folks to pay enough attention. So they put the preventative steps in place, and they take the time to do it, but not to to worry so much about it
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Erika T. Machtinger: that it prohibits them from enjoying
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Erika T. Machtinger: the thing that they enjoy.
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Erika T. Machtinger: which is their horse, and being outside, so it's it's just a it's an understanding of risk.
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Erika T. Machtinger: and knowing how you can help prevent those risks and making it part of your routine. That's really critical.
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Laura Beth Kenny: That was an interesting thing that we saw in our survey. We did a little bit of analysis of some of the questions, and we found that people who had horses with higher or horses, with confirmed cases of lyme disease.
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Laura Beth Kenny: have higher knowledge scores about these tick-borne diseases, and the tick life, cycles and stuff. We ask them 10 questions on on their knowledge.
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Laura Beth Kenny: So we found, you know, if you've been exposed to this disease, you're going to educate yourself more on that. We also found that as the level of concern about contracting tick-borne disease goes up, so does the knowledge score.
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Laura Beth Kenny: So people who have personal experience with this are going to be more worried about it and
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Laura Beth Kenny: trying to educate themselves more, and do more tick checks on their horses, and that kind of thing
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Laura Beth Kenny: makes sense
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Kris Hiney: very good. Any other last advice or parting thoughts. You'd want to give to our listeners about our creepy crawlies.
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Danielle Smarsh: I hope they'll go back outside again, because I feel like after
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Danielle Smarsh: of the times after you talk about whether it's mosquitoes or ticks or things you're like I'm never leaving my house ever again. It's like No, no, you have to go outside. Sometimes it's still.
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Kris Hiney: Yeah, I mean, you kind of do have to like, gear up and just say, this is this is part of life, because, you know, living inside we right now we've got Nats. For Heaven's sakes, we've never had so many Nats, and so like you either like, hide for them, or you just like, Put your repelant on, and I go outside and just deal with it. So
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Erika T. Machtinger: I I would also add.
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Erika T. Machtinger: that's across the country are stressed with overwork, and how much they have to know in keeping up with the knowledge base. and they they may not always know
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Erika T. Machtinger: about the ticks, about prevention methods. They can usually do quite well with the handling of diagnoses and and treatment. But some of those other questions horse owners may have they. The vet themselves may not always know the answer to. So I I do encourage
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Erika T. Machtinger: going to your vet with anything horse related health related, but also considering, reaching out to your extension service. because they are going to have the experts that can answer more of the prevention questions or the parasite specific questions that the vets may not
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Erika T. Machtinger: be able to.
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Kris Hiney: Well, that was a wonderful plug. I appreciate that we know stuff, and our job is to teach the people that that's right. Well, we we have a paper that we're just finishing up now about.
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Erika T. Machtinger: We specifically queried vets about some of the same same questions, same knowledge, questions, and you know that it it it came out basically that
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Erika T. Machtinger: they don't know everything. They weren't taught everything, and they know a little about a lot.
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Erika T. Machtinger: and it's really hard to ask them to stay up on top of every topic and know everything there is to know about everything. And so working
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Erika T. Machtinger: to answer these questions in tandem is really important.
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Kris Hiney: c
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Kris Hiney: All right, guys. So I really appreciate our time today. So hopefully, People everywhere. We'll learn a little bit about ticks and and be rational in our approach to ticks, and certainly, if you have any articles or extra information you want to share, we can put it in the show notes.
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Kris Hiney: Certainly encourage everyone to check out extension horses.com for other horse health information. Again, we do a lot on prevention and management hopefully to keep you out of the veterinarian's office, and to save you guys some money.
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Kris Hiney: So again it's been fantastic. Everybody give out their trail, ride. Just look for your ticks afterwards. So this has been another episode of our tech box talk horse stories with a purpose.
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Erika T. Machtinger: awesome.
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Kris Hiney: good job Guys.