In this episode, Dr. Krishona Martinson and Robyn Stewart share their take on their favorite abstracts they watched at the 2023 Equine Science Society meetings. We discuss the impact of hay nets on teeth, when folks think horses are old, if pasture tracks make a difference and poop versus urea - which is better!
To read the complete abstracts and findings, click on the links below
122 US Senior horses: When are they considered old and how does that affect their management
In this episode, Dr. Krishona Martinson and Robyn Stewart share their take on their favorite abstracts they watched at the 2023 Equine Science Society meetings. We discuss the impact of hay nets on teeth, when folks think horses are old, if pasture tracks make a difference and poop versus urea - which is better!
To read the complete abstracts and findings, click on the links below
122 US Senior horses: When are they considered old and how does that affect their management
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Kris Hiney: So here we go. Welcome to extension horses, Tack Box Talk series Horse Stories with a Purpose. I'm your host, Dr. Kris Hiney, with Oklahoma State University and today's episode, and actually, for probably a few coming up, we're going to be hitting some highlights of our recent Equine Science Society meetings that took place in Fort worth. And so these are meetings where professionals from across the country in the world present the
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their recent research and discoveries that help benefit horses and horse owners so to talk about their favorite abstracts. We have some returning guests, so Dr. Krishna Martinson, from the University of Minnesota. Welcome back, Krishona
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Krishona L Martinson: Hi! Thanks for having me.
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Robyn Stewart: and we have Robin Stewart, who is a county educator in Georgia. So welcome back, Robin. Hey, Kris! Thanks for having me again.
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So we're excited to share some of the things that that we learned And definitely, there's so much that goes on in these meetings. I think they had 5 different rooms running at the same time. So all of us just run around listening to different talks. So I know you guys sent me some that I didn't have a chance to talk about, so I'm excited or had a chance to listen to some excited to
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to talk about those, so I want to kick off. So, Krishona you sent the abstract that you wanted to talk about
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Kris Hiney: was about preliminary findings on the use of hay nets, and how horses use their hay, and what happens to their teeth.
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Kris Hiney: So what is this about? Get us started?
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Krishona L Martinson: Yeah. So this research was conducted at the University of Wisconsin River Falls and I was also involved in this research. So I mean, I think there's been so much work on hand that's in the positives of hey nets with extending forage time and reducing waste. But so many people are concerned with things like dental health chiropractic health. Just those things. So this study is a 2 year study, and they presented the first half.
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Krishona L Martinson: and it looked at dental health. So essentially, they had a group of university horses that were fed only from a round bale with a net
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Krishona L Martinson: and a group of horses that were fed only from around bales without a net. And we all know, I think the pretty standard recommendation is yearly dental exams on your horses. So really, on day 0, all of the horse's teeth were floated and evaluated, they were actually measured with little rulers
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Krishona L Martinson: and all of the horse's mouth. The pictures were taken, and then they were randomly assigned to either a Hey, net or no Haynet, and for one year the horses only ate forage. From that treatment.
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Krishona L Martinson: At the end of year one the horses were brought back in to the same equine dentist that was also a veterinarian. in in Minnesota, Wisconsin. You do need to be a veterinarian to to be aq dentist. That might be a little bit different in some States, but in our case
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Krishona L Martinson: veterinarians Dentists have to be veterians, and the veterinarian was blinded, meaning a horse was handed to her, and she measured looked for any abrasions, looked for any injuries, and then refloated, and then float to the teeth again, and then the horses were assigned to the opposite treatment, and after a full year
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Krishona L Martinson: There were no significant differences in soft tissue damages to the gums or lips, and those were looked at monthly, just because it's fairly easy to pull the horses in, and both horses in both groups. I think there's a total of like 5 or 7 little abrasions total for the whole year. But it was the same across groups so.
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Krishona L Martinson: and there was no difference in like
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Krishona L Martinson: abnormalities that first year. So waves or things of that nature. There were some differences in the length of the teeth.
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Krishona L Martinson: but we're not really sure what that means quite yet. So we're going to kind of wait to make any broad conclusions. But essentially, after one year there were no
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Krishona L Martinson: differences in dental injuries or abnormalities at this point.
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Kris Hiney: And so what's the idea here? I I mean, I guess, to me. And you can help give us your opinion about this. The differences in teeth would have to be like incisors right? Because once they get the hay in their mouth, don't I mean the molars, Grindy? Grindy, you're doing their same thing regardless, so are they worried about like it changes the angle of the incisors, or does something different, as the horse is like pulling mouthfuls.
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Krishona L Martinson: Well, I think the the complaints we have heard are just the concern, not complaints. The concerns we have heard as horse specialists. Is that anytime you put a barrier between the horse and the hay.
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Krishona L Martinson: There's a potential to do something to the teeth. And but you know the the hey nets are what kind of a fabric he or a ropey type material. Obviously there have been some horror stories and visuals of people that have tried to use like metal Grates. That is obviously a horrible idea. But in the in this case, the hay nets that were used they're really.
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Krishona L Martinson: I don't know. There's just a lot of concern about where, on those incisors kind of surface, wear? And then also, just because there is a barrier between the horse and the hay just abrasions.
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Krishona L Martinson: And we didn't we? They they didn't find any differences after one year. Of course it's a 2 year study, but our preliminary results show no difference after one year. Now, you said these were, hay? Nets on round bales. And again, we can't provide an answer to all questions in one study. That's not how research works people. We do a chunk at a time.
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Kris Hiney: but I guess I could definitely see horse owners being like, well, but I feed, you know the hung up to the such and such height and a stall versus around there where their head is lower.
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Krishona L Martinson: Yeah. And I I I guess we can maybe extrapolate. That is the same, hay? Nets for the same material, so it could maybe anticipate the same results. they did do a sister study, at the same time looking at chiropractic health with the horses eating from the round bales. But again, you I mean, you know how, when, when a horse eats a round bale, but it goes down so that has kind of goes down over the days.
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Krishona L Martinson: and if you've ever washed a horse, eat even in a stall, they will sometimes pull the hay out and then chew it wherever you know most comfortable. They don't keep their head elevated, but it it was good. Those results were not ready to be presented because the study was still ongoing.
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Krishona L Martinson: But the biggest thing that we did see is, of course, the amount of waste over the year, and that, hay? Was substantial, and the undergraduate student who presented it today. Really good job
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Krishona L Martinson: you would have had to spend something like 15,000 extra dollars, in hay, plus have an enormous larger space just to store, hay? Because you need so many more bales to account for the waste
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Krishona L Martinson: and those horses. ate over 3 of their body weight. And actually there was a few studies that we're looking at, hey? Nets? And they all have like, if it is a 3.2 or 3.3% body weight without a haynet, and then right around that 2.2 2.5% body weight with the hey net. So it it does kind of
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Krishona L Martinson: it. Those hey? Nets by providing that barrier also does slow them down a little bit. Yeah. So I have a question on that. So when they did, the 3% was that with waste? Or did they think that the horses consumed 3. Yeah, so that's a great question, Kris. It was really disappearance. Okay? So they assume that that was kind of
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Kris Hiney: that. The waste was part of was part of it, but it was really, hay, disappearance? You are correct there. Okay, all right. But still, so far at least, you know, for round bales. hay, nets seem to work. I always would like to throw out the hey? They also do the rings to make it safer at the bottom so that they don't sleep on top of it because
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Krishona L Martinson: and especially if you have horses with shoes, things like that, you can just have them trampling around on top of the hey net. But otherwise they're a really good management tool so far. Yes, and thank you, Kris, for that. Absolutely. So these were actually inside of a hey hut
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Krishona L Martinson: in your right. If horses have blankets, halters, shoes, or any kind of garments
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Krishona L Martinson: you do have to fly sheets during this, you know, during the summer months. you do have to be very cautious of horses getting caught
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Kris Hiney: on, hey? Nets? Right? Very good.
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Robyn Stewart: Robin, did you have any questions about this study, or or I have any other further questions for Krishona on this one? I didn't have any questions, but I was able to see that one live, and the student did a fabulous job presenting it. It was so great, and as an extension person, seeing some of that economic, you know, the waste and the value that she was able to tie was really cool. So that was definitely one I was excited to see and and excited to hear talked about again.
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Kris Hiney: All right. The next study we're going to talk about is an interesting one. I did not get a chance to see this. But again, I think really good for horse owners to maybe hear about this. So this one actually studied the environmental impact, as well as how much the horses volunteered to move when using
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Kris Hiney: pasture tracks compared to conventional pasture housing. So I know these have been kind of catching on as a way to like, hey, let's get our horses moving, and a little bit more active. So, Krishona, you went to this one, so tell us what you learned from this abstract.
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Krishona L Martinson: Yes, and Chris, like you said, I mean being a Ford specialist. I get tons of questions about pasture tracks, so pasture tracks is essentially where there's a pasture in the middle. But there's a track around the around the outside, and this one was about, I think, 12 feet wide somewhere in there. and essentially what it is is
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Krishona L Martinson: on the track system. You'd put, hay? And water at different spots, so it encourages the horse to walk all the way around the track.
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Krishona L Martinson: and sometimes, if they are allowed to graze on the inside, the pasture sort of on, or the pasture gate
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Krishona L Martinson: they had horses in a 5 acre pasture.
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Krishona L Martinson: They then had a 5 acre pasture with a track around the outside, and then they had a large 30 acre pasture, and they put little. I mean, you could attach a, you know, a little GPS track here to the horse's leg, and and they looked at how much, how many miles, or how many steps the horses covered.
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Krishona L Martinson: They did not find any difference
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Krishona L Martinson: in the amount of miles or steps that the horses took between the track, the 5 Acre pasture and that larger 30 Acre Pass. Really. So the whole premise behind them didn't seem to come to fruition. But Kris, like you mentioned you can never do all the things at once
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Krishona L Martinson: what a lot of us thought is, you know, a lot of times horses are on these tracks because they're overweight
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Krishona L Martinson: or
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Krishona L Martinson: or that they
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Krishona L Martinson: we need that they can't have access to pasture for whatever dietary reason, right? Maybe they have metabolic syndrome, or they have laminitis, or whatever. So
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Krishona L Martinson: a group of us had really wished they had a true dry lot, like a small.
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Krishona L Martinson: tiny half-acre, dry lot, and compare horse movement within a very confined area to that pasture track system. and I think that is a logical next step of this kind of research is to compare a true dry lot to a track system. However.
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Krishona L Martinson: what they did find is that there was quite a bit of erosion on the track, because it's that you have the same foot traffic, and of course the grass did die out in many spots around that track which we would sort of expect. I mean, just like a dry lot, right. Eventually the grass dies out. It just becomes a dry lot like is intended. So it's essentially it was a very long.
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Krishona L Martinson: narrow, dry lot is what you're saying, yes.
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Krishona L Martinson: yes.
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Kris Hiney: So is that
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Kris Hiney: bad? I mean, I none of us are environmental scientists. So I guess the question, you know. So if I have a dry lot. That's a square, dry lot, or a a long, narrow, complicated dry lot I like, is there one that's worse than the other?
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Krishona L Martinson: Well, I you know I I mean I I
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Krishona L Martinson: in Minnesota, my, I mean we have horses at the University on a dry lot, and just with manure removal, and having to scrape. You do have some. There is naturally erosion you do have to bring in, you know.
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Krishona L Martinson: ground cover whatever it is. If it's a gravel or a class 5 or sand. We I mean, you do have to add things back in just because the the manure removal process removes things. So I guess when horses walk, I mean, we've all seen trails like, right? Yeah, my pasture has trails. Yes, there's trails, so it's not surprising.
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Krishona L Martinson: But again, I I think the next logical step is to really look at a true dry lot and compare how much distance the horses walk in there.
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Krishona L Martinson: to, you know to the track system. But I I do, I mean in just they didn't talk about this. but the track system requires a significant amount of fencing. But yeah, you have your perimeter fence, plus, you have basically a double fence to fence up the pasture. But maybe it's also good for the humans, because you got to, you know, huff out there to maintain your haynet. And like, I mean, you gotta have a hose. If the waters I would assume. Yeah.
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Krishona L Martinson: But again, I think if you're
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Krishona L Martinson: you know, if if you need your horses moving and walking, but don't want them to have access to pasture, because you remember it was a 5 acre pasture and a 30 acre pasture, right like. At least, these horses didn't have access to pasture, but I don't remember seeing any
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Krishona L Martinson: body condition, score or body weight data from those horses. But maybe they weren't overweight to start with. Yeah. Yeah. So we've already then planned their next study, so
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Krishona L Martinson: I can do it. Kris.
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Kris Hiney: that's good, but that's you know, if people are definitely looking at how you know how the best way to do things and increase movement. I guess so. Bottom line is, if you have a pasture they'll get as much exercise on their own in their pasture as a track, and we are meaning not to track where you run them or chase them, and things like that.
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Krishona L Martinson: Yes, and and I will say. this is the first abstract I have really seen that has compared a track system to a pasture. Again. I wish it was a dry lot, but it's a start. So I commend them because we do get a ton of questions. And there really is no scientific data to address that question that we so frequently get
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Kris Hiney: a track system where they've got like the little bucket like where the rabbit on the greyhound track is, and then do it that way right.
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like legit track system. Chase it down, Buddy.
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Krishona L Martinson: But you know, I've also seen just on some social media groups or some endurance riders that have track systems, and they've also put in different different kinds of footing just to get their horse acclimated. And again, I have no idea if there is a scientific merit to that. But you know, maybe it's just a good. I mean, I don't do endurance riding, either. So maybe you want to expose your horse to all different kinds of footing, so they get
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Krishona L Martinson: so yes, I think this is a fantastic first step, and there is several second steps that could easily be done to help answer these questions that we often get.
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Kris Hiney: Yeah, very good. All right, Robin. We're gonna kick it to you. You went to a talk about senior horses, and when do clients right? So horse owners consider them old, and how do they change their management? Once they do think their horse is old, so tell us a little bit about this study.
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Robyn Stewart: Sure. So I really love this presentation. I am blinking on where it was from, but I can find that. So you can throw it in the show notes. but essentially what they were looking at. You know, we've got some different definitions of age on horses right? So from a nutrition standpoint, maybe our nutritionists have a specific opinion.
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Robyn Stewart: and we've got some physiological markers that around 20 that come into play. But nobody has really looked at you know what is the true definition across the board? What do people consider to be old? And so this is a survey based. Study that. thank you. Krishona pulled. It is from Kentucky in Texas. appreciate her help there.
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Robyn Stewart: but they were basically looking to see, you know, what do our horse owners think right? Because we can secure as the specialists all day long and talk about, you know, physiological markers and nutrition markers and all these things. But really, what? What does the public think? So
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Robyn Stewart: did a a survey of the United States? basically trying to see some answers to. When is a horse old? Why do they consider the horse old, and what did they do when they make that determination? So they had a pretty good response rate across the country, and the the majority of their results were found from the southeast. and I believe it was hosted in Kentucky. So that makes sense. We tend to pull more from the regions we're in
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Robyn Stewart: But essentially what they found was that of the about 2,500 people that responded. The majority consider their horse old at either 20 or 25 and
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Robyn Stewart: there was some gap there, because those 2 numbers 20 and 25 only account for roughly 37 to 40 of the answers. So most most other people gave some other number within those ranges, but in general, that 20 to 25 range seem to be the most strongly core related to an idea of age on the horse.
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Robyn Stewart: and then the reasons that they were considered to be old were first and foremost, was a reduced ability to work or exercise. So it just aren't performing like they used to
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Robyn Stewart: the second was horses that had some age related disease or disorder. So maybe some arthritic changes, maybe looking at something like Cushing or something along those lines that's influencing their health, and the third one, which I thought was fascinating was The horse's hair turns gray.
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Robyn Stewart: so if they have gray-haired horses. They perceive them to be old, which is very interesting to me. So those were kind of the 3 reasons they stated, for determining that their horse had to reach that old mark
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Robyn Stewart: and then the majority of them over 90% did make changes to management. Once they decided their horse was old, and for the most part it was related to diet and supplements. And they did not release in this conversation and the results of what types of supplements, and so on and so forth. but they did look into that in addition. So I'm hoping that we'll see that data come out later. but basically saying that they did change diets.
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Robyn Stewart: supplements, and they stopped working quite as hard. So they were not working these horses quite as intensively once they were older. And some of them stopped riding or driving altogether, depending on the case. So
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Robyn Stewart: I think it's interesting. I don't know that it's anything particularly new in terms of novel things that nobody's ever heard before. But I do think it's interesting as educators to hear. You know what timeframe we're talking about, and what the decisions are being made in regards to it. So I personally have a 19 year old horse, and I like to say he's very young, and I hope he stays young forever. so I am not ready to call him old at 20, but apparently the majority of horse owners would
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Kris Hiney: right right. Well, I you're not going to be able to relate to this. and Krishona. You won't either, but I do think yes, saying old when you can't perform like you used to, or your hair turns gray with our horse owners. So
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Kris Hiney: But what I do think is probably important. I think they talked about it, or we did it with questions. at that presentation I went to that one is that it's important to realize also with with age. And maybe this is also a public service service announcement for people, too.
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Kris Hiney: you really lose condition, ability to do things when you stop doing things. And so just saying, Hey, my horse is 20, I'm not going to use him anymore, is absolutely like the worst thing that you can do. So maybe he's not an elite performer, but literally just saying, Oh, I'm just going to retire him and do nothing. that's it's kind of a disservice. They can still do quite a bit of activity. we just have to modify it a bit.
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Robyn Stewart: all right. So our next abstract, we got So actually, you did send us one, Robin, that you were talking about education? Right? So this one is near and there to your heart. So tell us, Can you teach horse owners anything I like to think. Yes, you know. I think it's one of the conversations I heard a lot last week was
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Robyn Stewart: trying to bridge the gap between Academia and the public, and I think that's something that is on the forefront of our minds, right as educators, on people who work with extension and hopefully, folks who find the Tack box talk our folks who are familiar with the extension and what we do. But really, you know I am in Georgia, and this is a abstract from a program that we run and we were really looking at.
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Robyn Stewart: But the virtual model And how well we can reach horse owners, and whether it's actually effective or teaching things, especially since so much of the fine management is hands on right? So can you really put it in the computer?
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Robyn Stewart: And so this is a program we've been running for almost 5 years now. so it's something that is near and dear to my heart. But essentially we run a week long Webinar series every single year in January, February.
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Robyn Stewart: and it is fully virtual. So it's via zoom, and participants are allowed to attend from all over the country. And actually, we've had 15 different countries in. So I remember a couple of years ago I had somebody calling me from South Africa trying to find the time zone difference to see if it was going to be recorded for them to attend. So
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Robyn Stewart: It presents an opportunity, as I said, for for that distance, learning to get people beyond just the State of Georgia or a region and across the globe, and allowing for things like the recording. So people can go back and re-watch it. for you know, tracking, maybe some of that information over time as well. You know we've got these conversations now. They're not going to be accurate forever. So I'm kind of tracking how things are going. But
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Robyn Stewart: ultimately it's a series you've done about 4 or 5 years at this point. we've reached over 1,600 people with it that are all for centers, and the majority of them are smaller owners. So folks that have, you know, 2 to 5 horses. We're not really pulling those big competitive show type folks which is okay. But that's really our audience. And I think as an extension person, you know, majority of people we work with are not big boarding operations. They're folks with a horse or 3.
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Robyn Stewart: So the program alternates. What topics we cover. So every year we pick a new subject matter, and we just finished our first equal nutrition series this year back in February. Next year we'll be doing kind of a applied nutrition program looking at taking the basic information on anatomy and physiology and nutrients. And we're going to apply it to actual specific cases of you know, how do we feed senior horses? How do we feed? Met of all of, and so on.
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Robyn Stewart: And so every year we follow kind of a general theme based on the topics that we are interested in covering. And again, we do it virtually. So. we've had a lot of participation so far, we've seen really great responses in terms of self. Identified. Knowledge increases, you know. Folks walk away saying, yes, I did learn things, and they walk away. Behavioral changes, you know. Yes, I'm going to soil test. yes, I'm going to body condition score. And then we're also able to
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Robyn Stewart: and get some of the agreement to use that information in their own operations, whatever that looks like, because we recognize that everybody's got a different situation. And when you're teaching from across the country. It's pretty hard to capture all of them at once. But, The model has proven to be very effective effective so far. it's something that we're excited to keep doing, and then it's also led into some other fun opportunities. So now we do a lunch and learn every month that is related. And I know that we're working on a
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Robyn Stewart: elevated equine website right now, that is going to have access to newsletters and webinars and recordings and all of those things. So really just doing what we can to try and reach more of that horse demographic and noting that that's kind of a Gap, especially here in Georgia. And but we're pretty excited about this program being effective and in getting some that knowledge improvement that we're hoping for and being another resource for our hosts.
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Robyn Stewart: Awesome. That's great to hear. And especially you're getting such widespread impact. So 15 countries that's crazy. It is insane. I'm not ready if I'm prepared
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Robyn Stewart: to to be, and
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Robyn Stewart: you don't have to translate for them all, do you?
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Kris Hiney: Okay.
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Robyn Stewart: although we do go questions sometimes about like, oh, I live somewhere else. We don't have that, or that's not something we do here. And that gets interesting, you know.
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Kris Hiney: Yeah, yeah. Oklahoma, we're not a big haylage state.
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Kris Hiney: All right. We've got one more that we're going to talk about today. and this is one I didn't get to see. But I thought was really interesting when I glanced through it. So I'm excited, Krishona. You can share with us. So this one
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Kris Hiney: is about what type of plants and grass grows, how much of it grows, what the horse wants to eat, and what the forage and soil nutrient values are when we treat pastures with different soil amendments or what we put on them. So this one sounds super interesting. So, Krishona, what did you learn?
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Krishona L Martinson: Yeah. So this was also done a collaboration with University, Wisconsin, River Falls and University of Minnesota. And
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Krishona L Martinson: I mean, you guys, we always recommend past or, you know, horse owners and cattle owners, anyone with pasture or fertilizer pasture. But if any of you have looked at your fertilizer bill it I mean fertilizer is expensive, and we also get that question. Well, can we just use manure from our stalls or manure from our dry lots? Or what about compost? We are composting our manure? What can we use?
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Krishona L Martinson: And honestly, there is not a lot of information out there for horse owners on this specific topic. and also how I mean
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Krishona L Martinson: Kris and Robin, you've heard horses will not graze where they poop.
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Krishona L Martinson: Okay, we've always heard that. But when you try to find a reference for that, guess what? Well, I can look. I mean, we can. Yes, we can all tell right?
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Krishona L Martinson: So essentially, what we did is we've done a lot of small plot grazing work.
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Krishona L Martinson: So what we did is we had replicated plots of just a a cool season grass pasture, and we applied fresh horse manure at a rate. If we? So we had 4 horses that were grazing. Okay, if those 4 horses were going to graze, you know they poop like 50 pounds a day, you know what would. What would that look like? So it's fairly a fairly well covered little area. So we had fresh horse manure.
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Krishona L Martinson: truly composted horsemanure, truly composted horseman or has been managed, it has been turned. It looks more like black dirt than it does poop.
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Krishona L Martinson: And then, of course, we use Urea, just your normal urea, and we graze the horses, and we looked at preference. After 4 and 8 h of grazing we do that visually, and then they also just looked at botanical composition, the you know how many weeds, how many desirable grasses. And then we looked at plant nutrient analysis. We looked at soil health parameters, although we know that those are long term. you
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Krishona L Martinson: know, that's going to take time, as you're not going to see much in the first year.
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Krishona L Martinson: And then, of course, yield. Now the first year was in 2,023 in Minnesota. We had a severe drought like a lot of the northern part of the country did so. Our you. Our yields were fairly minimal, just a few tons per acre, and we didn't see a difference. But again it was incredibly dry
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Krishona L Martinson: where we did see a tremendous difference. The horses would absolutely not graze where the where the fresh manure was applied. So you know what everyone's observation is correct.
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Krishona L Martinson: And, interestingly enough, this wasn't in the abstract, but we are repeating the study this year, so after a full year, they still will not graze in those areas where we where we applied the manure, even though the manure is visually gone.
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Krishona L Martinson: Well, this is an interesting side. Note. the horses would easily graze where the compost and the urea was applied.
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Krishona L Martinson: and we didn't really see any major differences and plant qualities, you know, like crude protein or fiber values.
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Krishona L Martinson: we did see some differences in soil parameters. But we I mean, this is a 3 to 5 year study to really look at soil health. So we can't really make broad conclusions over the first year, because we know that soil health takes a long time to change or to not change. But the biggest takeaway is that we are all correct horses absolutely will not graze where there's freshmanure.
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Krishona L Martinson: So you know, I think it is very important to manage manure and pastures.
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Krishona L Martinson: and if you are trying to fertilize your pasture, let's stick with Urea, or.
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Krishona L Martinson: you know, man made fertilizers that you buy from a a cooperative or farm store or true compost that has been actually managed and turned.
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So of course, I have questions. So and I'm going to try to anticipate what all of our horse owners are going to ask. So we always typically recommend in certain times a year. So we minimize parasites. but because horses don't want to eat near manure that we rake or hero it, which is essentially spreading when we are across the pasture, so is the rate that you are doing it like comparable. If if we were doing that method because that's a standard, you know, protocol that we tell people to do.
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Krishona L Martinson: Yes, and I I think that is where we had to make a decision. So we made the decision that that freshly applied poop was like in a pile, but the whole pasture was covered in a pile, so we maybe didn't make the. I mean, we may be made a little bit of a poor decision. But again, we are trying to
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Krishona L Martinson: sort of duplicate what a horse would naturally do. I still think that dragging is incredibly important, and that needs to be done. And I do think eventually, maybe in years, maybe towards the end of year 2 or in year 3 and 4. The horses will no longer be able to smell or sense or taste. I don't know what they do where that manure was so heavily applied
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Kris Hiney: right? Because I mean just walking around. And in grand, we have a little bit of different species here, so maybe you could share what your experience is. But, like we do see, you know, an increased growth. If there is areas that horses defecate in like the plants around, it will be like Woohoo. Now, Granted, it's because the horses aren't eating it.
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Kris Hiney: but even like, if you can compare like the the robustness of growth in that area versus maybe where you mow like it can get pretty crazy. So so there is some value in horse poop. It's just maybe how we strategically use it.
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Krishona L Martinson: Yes, absolutely. And I think the take home messages. It has to be managed in the pasture just like you manage it in a box stall or a dry lot.
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Krishona L Martinson: And the other thing is, you know, if we don't drag in those piles, stay there for some time, you know, underneath those piles it turns into a bare spot in the pasture, especially if it's kind of a larger, more dense pile, and the manure treated.
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Krishona L Martinson: treated plots did have more bare spots and less desirable species of forge grasses than the other plots. So we also saw that duplicated But you're you're you're right, Kris. It's just it's a management. But
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Krishona L Martinson: the grass that grows right around the poop. Pile is always the most bright green, always the tallest, you know, but
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Krishona L Martinson: the take on messages. It has to be managed.
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Kris Hiney: Okay? And and we can't really count on horses to do a very good job of dispersing it right. That's not how they operate.
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Krishona L Martinson: you know. But I still think dragging, you know, 2 or 3 times a year, during the hot and dry periods, to get rid of pair sites and spread out the nutrients is still the correct and endorsable recommendation. So drag or have a herd of chickens I herd like hundreds like, and who was that mentioned? I I do not know. So you know what happens if you have chickens right?
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Krishona L Martinson: No. What then? You have all the things coming to eat the chickens right now, you just have another problem.
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Krishona L Martinson: Yeah.
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Kris Hiney: well, I think
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this has been very helpful, you guys, and I think it's always fun
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Kris Hiney: to show people like our recommendations come from somewhere. Right? So so maybe yes, we all did know that horses don't eat where they pop, because we all have, you know, eyes that we look at. Oh, hey, look at that! But so much of the other things like, I think it is important to have good data behind it, because we don't want to be given recommendations to people
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Kris Hiney: based off of, you know our feelings or hunches or things like that. And that's our job, right? That's all of our jobs as extension folk is to not just make things up out of our head to tell people but use knowledge, whether created by ourselves or from our colleagues to say, Hey, no, we have some good evidence that this is best practices.
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Krishona L Martinson: Yeah, I mean in Kris, that is the benefit of Equine Science Society, or any research that you do, whether it's presented or not is, I mean, that's our job. Present research based information. You said it perfectly. I said it perfect.
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Kris Hiney: all right. Any other take-home messages that you want to share with our listeners.
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Krishona L Martinson: My take home message is that we should congratulate our host
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Krishona L Martinson: on winning the outstanding equine science society. The educator. That is a huge honor, thank you. Competitive award. So we should applaud Dr. Hiney for her very well deserved award. Oh, thank you so much. I appreciate that congratulations, Chris, and just to thank you to the Ess folks and to everybody who does these abstracts.
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Robyn Stewart: they are available online for open access. If folks are interested in seeing what all happened, or
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Robyn Stewart: yes, I am putting him links to him in the show notes. If you guys want to read and look at P values, I I don't think the average human wants to do that, but it is our job
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And always, if if we want to put more links to other educational platforms, online, learning apparently is effective. to make sure that you guys are getting the answers, that you need.
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Kris Hiney: All right. Well, I think we are going to go ahead and sign off. And this has been another episode of our Tack box talk or stories with the purpose.