In this episode we continue reviewing some of our member's favorite abstracts from the Equine Science Society meetings. Drs. Kathy Anderson and Danielle Smarsh talk about the most effective methods of weigh loss in overweight horses, whether foal size at birth translates to different sized adults, and if electrolyte supplementation is needed for light to moderately exercised horses.
In this episode we continue reviewing some of our member's favorite abstracts from the Equine Science Society meetings. Drs. Kathy Anderson and Danielle Smarsh talk about the most effective methods of weigh loss in overweight horses, whether foal size at birth translates to different sized adults, and if electrolyte supplementation is needed for light to moderately exercised horses.
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Kris Hiney: Welcome to extension horses, tack box talk series horse stories with a purpose. I'm your host, Dr. Kris Hiney. And today we're going to be continuing our series, highlighting some of the recent research that was discussed at the 2023 Ecoin Science Symposium. So to discuss their favorite abstract. So the ones they thought had the most impact for horse owners. We have Dr. Danielle S. Marsh from Penn State University. Welcome back, Daniel.
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Danielle Smarsh: Thank you, Dr. Hiney. Nice to be here.
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and also returning? Asked Dr. Kathy Anderson from University of Nebraska. Welcome back, Kathy.
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Kathy Anderson: Hey? Hi! Glad to be here.
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Kris Hiney: All right. So, ladies, we're going to actually start with one of Danielle's picks. So she wants to discuss a study that was looking at giving low doses of electrolyte supplementation to university horses. so maybe that makes a difference. that we're in light to moderate exercise. All right. So, Daniel, tell us a little bit about this study.
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Danielle Smarsh: Sure. So I like this talk, and this abstract. And as you mentioned University of Horses, but I thought it was interesting that they looked at horses, the key being light to moderate exercise, and as the authors, this was done down at Middle Tennessee State University, they pointed out. Yes, we know, for heavy exercise extended hot human period time electorates important. What about those horses that are not ridden so intensely? like, maybe many of us do And so they had a
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Danielle Smarsh: cohort of stock type horses, and they gave them They had a control set, and then a set that got the electrolytes, and they happened to, just by dumb luck, pick a week in Tennessee, where it was like 100 degrees. That's good worked out well for them to like. We did not plan like. That's just how it happened. And the horses were ridden every day through this heat wave and They all had their
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Danielle Smarsh: normal diet of hay and a commercial concentrate.
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Danielle Smarsh: and then they assess them for things like, How much? What are they drink how willing they were with their exercise. And they looked at some blood parameters as well, like things like sodium potassium in your electrolytes. Basically that you would find in these
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Danielle Smarsh: supplements, and the end result was that really there were not any differences. The big thing they found was that water intake. There was an effect of day which, tracked with which day was the hottest So horses drink more when it's hot. Are you telling this? This has been verified. So the hotter the day was more. What are all? Both groups of horses drank? but otherwise There was no difference between their control group that did not receive the supplement and the
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Danielle Smarsh: treatment group. And so again, this was just a short term. One week gave the the electrolyte every day they are written every day. And their suggestion was that you know, these horses were getting a balanced diet of Hey in a commercial concentrate. And so maybe that was that was all they needed to cope with this lighter level of exercise for a few days during a heat wave.
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Kris Hiney: All right. So maybe you can help us out, because I know you've got a a background in exercise physiologies. So I think because horse owners are always worried about doing the the best they can. And they know we say, Hey, we need to maybe increase electrolytes when they're working. But I think a lot of people don't understand when we categorize things as light to moderate work versus what a an intensely worked horse is! So what kind of work would these horses be doing that we're in this light to moderate category.
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Danielle Smarsh: Sure. So I'm speculating here because I don't actually remember what they said. Their specific exercise was, but I would imagine they are probably ridden for
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Danielle Smarsh: 30 to 45 min. They probably had a walk.
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Danielle Smarsh: jog, and lope component to that. some like, and if you go for lessons or a short ride like that. so I would think they weren't hitting again. As you mentioned. I like exercise. They weren't hitting a a maximum heart rate here, but they were probably, I would guess, with the heat a little sweaty at the end. But,
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Danielle Smarsh: You know, I think of as super intensely ridden horse, like a racehorse or a 3 day eventer Those are horses that are working at high intensity. So a light to moderate exercise. You're probably working them out
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Danielle Smarsh: 30, 60 min, a large component walk trot with maybe a little bit of that canter lope thrown in. So are you trying to tell us, Dr. Smarsh, that maybe horses that aren't ridden, that hard don't need the fancy electrolyte supplementation routes. I'm going to be a scientist and say it depends. No, you have to give an answer. But you know, I think again this was 5 days. I'm assuming these are horses that
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Danielle Smarsh: we're acclimated to Tennessee right? It wasn't like we suddenly ship them to a hot environment where we had a random heat wave in the middle. Cooler days. so think about how used to the environment your horse is, and also are they normally ridden? You know we talk about like weekend warriors, or maybe you have been on horse and weeks, and you jump on them. so these horses are accustomed. If they are accustomed or you ridden 3 or 4 times a week, and it's kind of just their normal status quo that week.
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Danielle Smarsh: They might be okay again, if it's something more out of the ordinary or the dramatic change in the environment they're in or the exercise that maybe we need to think about an electrolyte.
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Kris Hiney: Okay? And we always assume, you know, even a horse consuming a balanced diet. We always recommend that they still have access to salt. so most likely in these conditions again. Yes, it's hot, but we're not doing anything crazy there, at least from this study. Most likely fine, and it seems like the biggest takeaway was. Make sure they have adequate water because it definitely the temperature of the day.
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Danielle Smarsh: There was an effect on how much water they drink. So one of the cheapest nutrients in your horses. Diet? Yeah, exactly. So just let them drink. That's always a a good lesson. So all right. Good. So our low to moderate exercising horses, maybe don't have to be spending hundreds of dollars on electrolyte supplementation. They'll probably be okay with just what we do.
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All right, Dr. Anderson. So the one that you picked. I know you have a particular interest in race horses because you do some fun consulting at racehorse sales. So this one was right up your alley.
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Kris Hiney: So this was a study that looked at factors affecting birth weight in Thoroughbred foals, and then they compared them across 3 countries. So that's kind of fun. So they compared them in Kentucky, which is us the United Kingdom, and then Australia, to see what actually was affecting birth weight. So tell us a little bit about this one.
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Kathy Anderson: Yeah, I thought this was really interesting, that, and actually it confirmed. Or you know, we strengthen some things that many of us have thought about. but kind of. I thought some of the things were kind of interesting, so
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Kathy Anderson: luckily they, like so many of these farms, do collect birth, weight date, and those types of things, and my other horses quite regularly. So this was a study. They actually had over 3,000 horses data on over 3,000, which, if anybody knows horse studies, that's a top anywhere close to those kinds of members. so the first step that he reported and I I this would be interesting to learn a little bit more detail about the management.
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Kathy Anderson: But those foals over the average, both fillies and stud colts were actually bigger in Kentucky than they were compared to the Uk or Australia. And actually, when you're compared the birth weight of those in Australia, they were small. The smallest ones between all the 3. So that that was a little bit interesting. Okay, But then you know what? They looked at some of the things that and they kind of. You can even just group them together. And as what a lot of folks have thought in the past
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Kathy Anderson: is the for the foals that he call them the primaparous mares, the the or lay people will come. The maiden mares. Okay, most of the time those foals. We're going to be smaller. particularly the younger, that they were okay. Then, compared to mares that had say, 4 or 5 or more foals. Okay, And it changed. And then also those mares foaling in the winter months
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Kathy Anderson: in February, March, early in the year. They also had foals that were going to be a smaller birth weight compared to those that that that were foaling later. you know, fillies were a little bit smaller than that. So those are things that we've seen you know, in the past.
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Kathy Anderson: excuse me.
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Kathy Anderson: really didn't see a whole lot of difference in the birth weight of if it was their first foal or their second foal, and then, as they had more, they did, their birth weights did increase But one thing that I asked him about and thought was interesting is, you know. What? How did they, if they compared those weights of those foals when they were 6 months old, and on to a year, and if those, if they get closed, you know, if they were closer in age. And he said, Yes, those primaparous
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Kathy Anderson: the for the maidenmares actually those foals. From then over time they tended to catch up and be very similar.
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Kathy Anderson: So and he brought this out. It wasn't actually in the abstract. But he did bring this out, that Those folds that were smaller at birth, weight over time did have fewer issues of Ocd lesions than those that were born larger. And that's something that many of us have had thought about. you know, with some of these big growthy falls having a few more developmental issues that maybe those that were a little bit smaller. So my take home message from this is like a lot of folks say. Oh, they're not going to mess with those first,
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Kathy Anderson: those Maiden mares, because they're just going to be small but never going to catch up. It's like, no think back on that, because apparently From what he found is they might be smaller to start with, but they'll catch up. They're going to end up being not that much difference and not significantly different in size than those falls from those mares that that are having. You know that have had multiple foals, and you might end up with one that has a few fewer
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Kathy Anderson: developmental issues. later on, if they were born, you know, smaller and kind of had a a more even growth curve. So I thought, that was pretty interesting.
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Yeah, that's a that's a good one. So I have. maybe we can do some science breakdowns here for folks. So on the
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Kris Hiney: the primaparous mares. So again for folks that's the maiden. This is her first baby and so we've kind of known in the past. Isn't it? A little bit of her uterine size? So the uterus gets a little bigger after she's had a little bit or a little bit after she's had more foals.
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Kathy Anderson: Yeah, I would, I would say so. And actually, you know, her maturity size also increases, because when the smallest ones were from those mares that were foaling at 3 and 4, once they reached a little bit older, like 6 or 7 having their first foal. Then the gap was. It was not quite a significant
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Kathy Anderson: yeah, yeah. I remember there was a really cool study. I was like studies that have pictures. with the results. Because you're like, Oh, yeah, I can get on board with that. And they did some embryo transfer work where they put
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Kris Hiney: the pony embryos and the thoroughbred mares. And then those pony embryos got to grow to be bigger, and they're like, Oh, I can stretch out here. So that was a really fun study. But the take home. So rather than saying, Oh, hey! You know we don't want the the foal from the first mare, just because it's smaller over time. That's
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Kathy Anderson: that's right. That's right. Over time. They should catch up and be the same, just like those ponies falling out of a Thoroughbred mare. They'll start off bigger. The genetics are still there for it to be a pony, so it probably doesn't end up being this monster horse, but kind of horse. It just starts out a little bit better, because it had more room to grow in utero. So you have to remember the genetics. Genetics are there. And so yeah, they're only going to do so much.
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Kris Hiney: So I have another question. You may or may not know the answer to this. So I think that's interesting that our babies are bigger than in the United Kingdom in Australia, do they?
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Kris Hiney: Okay? So that wouldn't make sense. I was going to ask, you know, do we breed earlier? But but no, you said the earlier in the year they full the the smaller the foal
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Kathy Anderson: in the Uk. They basically breed the same as we do Australia. They're just flipped, you know, and so I don't think the time I mean, we know that the time of year has some effect on them. This foals.
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Kathy Anderson: and he showed this that are born in the winter months, say February. that they tend to be smaller. We've also known for years that a mare, foaling later in the year, has about a 10 day longer gestation length. So those foals are going to be a little bit bigger, not to the point where a person has to be concerned about distocia. Those types of things, or the ones following in the winter months are not going to be developed.
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Kathy Anderson: It's just they just it. It's just probably a a factor of the photo period, the light, those kinds of things. I don't think you're gonna see other than size any negative developmental things from a full more being board like their lungs developed, and those kinds of things in the winter months versus one foaling in later in the summer. And so I'm not sure that you would see that.
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Kathy Anderson: because I don't think the Uk. That they see their following season breeding season is that much different than us in the States, South America, or should I say Australia? It would be just flip from what we are right, the Southern hemisphere. So do you think again, you may not know the answer to this. I'm just pondering. Do you think that we in the United States do we place more emphasis on young horse sales that drives trying to select for bigger babies.
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Kathy Anderson: probably depends a little bit the industry that you're in, and I think it. I think you do see some of that, you know, particularly like in the Thoroughbred industry. They have all their big sales
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Kathy Anderson: yourling sales in the fall. Some of our stock courses also do have those kinds of sales. But there's a really big push in the Thoroughbred thing of fall yearling sales because you get those, and then you take them on into, you know, to start their early training and really racing career. Because in to me, in the industry. Now there's more emphasis on the young race horses. I think the stock course world has shifted a little bit. We used to have a lot of 2 year old events, and now it shifted.
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Kathy Anderson: There's some, but not to the degree that they're used to be. And so it's a little bit different. So yeah, I I mean, and you know, a person's a person, and you go. And you see this, you know, big, growthy, really good looking yearly. He's fat, and this and that he's going to be a little bit more attractive to some folks than one that's not maybe not quite so big and a little bit sunburn and a little bit, you know, ready, maybe a condition or a score for That's just nature, especially if folks that maybe
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Kathy Anderson: are not super experienced at looking at horses and looking through some of those cosmetic kinds of things that can change once, you, you know, do some stuff with them, so you know, and and it would be good to know if you could. When you look at some of those horses, you know how they've been managed. How they've been been raised, you know. We know that if they're turned out on pasture, that some of the sound is stuff that they can do, but
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Kathy Anderson: you know, so I know some of those places. They'll turn them out in the evenings, so they're outside at night, so they don't get sunburned. And so there's a lot of different management kinds of things that folks will do to to make them look the best that they can to get the you know, the most money that they can from them. And and really, ultimate is is, you know, who's going to make the runners? so yeah, it's an interesting circle.
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Kathy Anderson: Yeah. And I thought it was interesting, and you didn't bring this one up. But there was another. I think the next study that was looking at body condition score of these sales horses. And so I think people try to push them to be fatter, just to do what you said. It's kinda to cover it up or gloss over things. And so literally, all you're paying for, then is the feed bill for that horse? Yeah, to some degree. Yeah, I mean in that one. It was done by the same group.
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Kathy Anderson: I mean their bottom line, and they have a lot of horses again that they went through. I think there's like 4 or 5,000 that that they were able to grab the records from, and you know they they kind of said that they do want to about a condition. Score 6. So 6 is okay. I mean, they're not. They're not like the 7 8. The super fat horses, you know. They're a little bit on the heavier side. But
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Kathy Anderson: and this study did not take those on into their race career which would be the interesting next step. This is just more or less what was the average condition score of most of those horses for the sales kind of where they were, appeared to be the most marketable. The really interesting thing would be, take it the next step to see how those horses, if they were X-conditioned score at the yearling sales how they produce on the track. And there's a lot of different variables that go on, you know, with
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Kathy Anderson: once they hit the hit into the training side of it. But it, you know, those are interesting kinds of things that you can try to look at and compare
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Kris Hiney: course cohort lifetime studies so. But it would, it would be good
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Kathy Anderson: exactly, Jockey club the Thoroughbred deal would be the closest, because they do keep all kind of stats. you know the and some could go back and find how these horses were conditions scored and evaluated when they were young, and go through these it would be a massive thing a massive undertaking.
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Kathy Anderson: but they do track the sale prices of those horses that we're in very sales, you know, where they went on. From there the other step would to be add in you know what? What was their condition? What did they look like? You know not just what they sold for, but what? What were those? What were the things? The make up of those horses also to combine those kinds of things? So yeah, so future research. But we're going to again remind people of their.
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Kathy Anderson: They're born a little bit small as long as they're not malnourished or anything crazy. But like, it's okay.
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Kris Hiney: It's okay. All right, we're gonna kick it back to Danielle. So I I know this is going to be a popular one. So talking about weight loss, and horses. So exercise versus feed restriction. What is the most efficient weight loss, option for your fat horse? And I know a lot of people don't want to do either one, because they either have an angry horse or it's a lot of work. So tell us what is what's the best option.
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Danielle Smarsh: Well, and you and Kathy kind of segway nicely talk about body condition scores and things. And so this group they looked over 10 weeks. What was the most the best method. If you needed to lose weight on your horse, is it simply the only restrict feed?
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Danielle Smarsh: Only do exercise, or do both restrict, feed, and exercise your horse, and they had With this group of horses there, about 30 horses, they all started. The body could just score of about 7, so on our scale of one to 9 for horses. They were in the chunky, overweight category of of 7 and
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Danielle Smarsh: so I said it went for 10 weeks. If they are in the feed restricted group. They looked at what their digestible energy requirements were, and only for them at 85% of those requirements. If they were exercise they were exercised to 5 times a week. I believe they lunge them was about 20 min at a certain heart rate they were aiming for then both the cool down a warm up and a cool down.
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Danielle Smarsh: and so again we had only you. You give them a diet only, or you exercise them only, or you do both together. And there was a control group as well.
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Danielle Smarsh: So at the end of the 10 weeks. yes, all the groups lost weight. And I should say they looked at weight. They also, with that body condition score for the whole body. They looked at Cresty next scores and then they also looked at
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Danielle Smarsh: if you do, body condition score? We're actually looking at several areas of the horse's body right? So they also did track the score for every part of the horse's body as they went to. So they had the overall body condition score for the horse. But then, if I look at just the neck or just along the ribs, what is that score? So
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Danielle Smarsh: they all lost weight. And they all did have their whole body, body, condition, score reduced. But what was interesting was that with the exercise groups, so both exercise only, and exercise plus
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Danielle Smarsh: feed restriction. Those groups both had reductions in their cresty next score. so either way exercise that reduce their cresty neck score and when they looked at some of the specific locations on the body and the body condition score for those areas. I believe it was around like the tail head and the shoulder
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Danielle Smarsh: again, exercise had more of an impact, and than the not exercise, even feed restricted group.
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Danielle Smarsh: So the take home messages that
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Danielle Smarsh: yes, certainly, as one might expect if you both exercise your horse and restrict calories. That was the most effective, but actually the exercise group, with no change in calories.
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Danielle Smarsh: that seem to have more of an impact than the simply only feed restricted group.
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Danielle Smarsh: So the take home message of this study was that, as you might expect, the exercise plus reduction in calories was the most effective.
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Danielle Smarsh: But actually the exercise group, with no reduction in calories.
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Danielle Smarsh: was the next most effective because not only did they lose weight and improve their whole body, body score, but exercise only also improved cresty next score, and then some areas like around the tail head more so than only restricting diet. So if they only restricted their diet. They did lose weight, but they didn't have kind of the change in fat
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Kris Hiney: across the body that the exercise groups don't happen and interesting, because when we talk about horses that are, and these are all clinically healthy, these weren't horses that had any any issues. But we always say, you know if we're looking at the phenotype of fat deposition, it's the cresty neck and the tailhead. Adaposity leans us more towards horses at risk for metabolic issues or insulin dysregulation. Correct? Yeah.
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Kris Hiney: And and so theoretically, then exercise increases muscle mass, right? I'm just going on a little tangent here. Exercise also increases glucose uptake. It's insulin independent for all of you folks out there that love your glucose transporters
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Danielle Smarsh: and so like, that is a really healthy or appropriate right for heavens sakes for horses to actually be exercising that might actually have a little bit more impact. Well, we know exercise will improve insulin sensitivity. So like you're saying, and that's it
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Danielle Smarsh: in
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Danielle Smarsh: I mean, you and I have some background and exercise for so for us I well, that makes perfect sense. But for the rest of you listening in like this. It this is the exercise is making, creating these changes in some of these hormones and other regulators of again the the fat and the body. So it's creating a leaner looking animal than just
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Danielle Smarsh: diet restriction. Only basically.
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Danielle Smarsh: I'm I'm looking at the abstract right now. So I have it phrase correctly. The way they phrase what the horses were done was, sub maximal unwridden exercise. So again I believe they were lunged, and they wanted them to work about approximately 150 beats per minute for their heart rate for 20 min. So our average adult course, heart rate at rest is around 36 beats per minute, and maximal heart rate would be
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Danielle Smarsh: 200 to 20. That a bit depends on the breed of the horse. And so 1 50, I mean, that's that's getting up there. That's again on an exercise world or something about shifting from aerobic to anaerobic type. Exercise. So you know, they're probably can't train at that that. They're not just at a slow jog. They're they are working
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Danielle Smarsh: So they wanted them about 20 min of that heart rate, and then they had them also, you know, a warm up and a cool down from the guessing. There's probably about 30, 35 min total of exercise. And they did this 5 days a week for 10 weeks.
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Kris Hiney: Okay, so 5 days a week for 10 weeks, about 30 min. But I mean is that the amount of time the average person wastes on social media?
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Kris Hiney: Pretty sure they waste more time on that. That's what I'm talking about every Sunday very embarrassing.
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Danielle Smarsh: So we're offering a healthy alternative for both the horse and the human here. Yeah.
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no, I really think that's important. Because
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Kris Hiney: and I mean, this is nothing different from human medicine, right? I mean, like
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Kris Hiney: this shouldn't be a surprise for everybody. but there's so many of our horses that are essentially sedentary, right? It's only voluntary activity, and that that's where we can get into
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Kris Hiney: weight issues with them and just becomes, you know a big issue, and I know when you try to restrict just diet, they just get real angry with you.
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Danielle Smarsh: Yes, yes, exactly. So. I think they also, I mean, they didn't study this. But I'm sure mentally, those horses felt a little better that we're out there stretching our legs and moving
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Danielle Smarsh: so yeah, with with obesity and overweight horses being a big issue in many parts of the world. Many states this has been documented pretty regularly. it is good to know this information. How how you could if you need to have your horse, lose weight, what you can do.
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Kris Hiney: Okay, all right. I think these have been some really good little research summaries. Again, our goal is to show people how our recommendations come about. So if you go to a workshop from Dr. Smarsh, and she's like, No, no, you should exercise your horses, you can't be like, but but why? There's no, there's no data.
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Kris Hiney: So now she can say there is, and if you go to Dr. Anderson to, or go with her to a Thoroughbred sale, and she's like No, no, by the smaller one at a body condition score of 5. You'll still be okay.
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Kathy Anderson: all right. Anything else that we missed, or things that you guys want to share from your time at our fantastic equine Science symposium.
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Danielle Smarsh: I was just going to say, I'm assuming we're going to post the abstract in the show notes that people want to look these up. And
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Kris Hiney: yeah, yeah, no, you can. And if you want to help a kid out, you could send me the abstract links, and then I'll just pop them in. But definitely for, like I said, for people that really want to read those. And hopefully, these abstracts will become published papers, too. So you get the long form and all the details that they can't fit into the, you know, 500 characters we're limited to, or whatever that is.
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Kathy Anderson: Yeah, we just get a lot of great new information over there. And so yeah, hopefully, these are pretty useful to everyone to kind of put some of the stuff that we've been working on on to practice.
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Kris Hiney: All right. And I think our next next couple episodes. We're still going to be hitting some of the highlights of the research world before we go back to our regularly scheduled program of how horses injure themselves. So thank you guys so much for joining us today. And this has been another episode of our Tac box talk for stories with a purpose.