Dr. Alyssa Logan, from Middle Tennessee State University visits the program for the first time. She shares her favorite abstracts on owners perspectives of weight and condition in horses, some wearable technology for horses and sheep of all things. Yes, there is a reason to run sheep in circles!
Dr. Alyssa Logan, from Middle Tennessee State University visits the program for the first time. She shares her favorite abstracts on owners perspectives of weight and condition in horses, some wearable technology for horses and sheep of all things. Yes, there is a reason to run sheep in circles!
Welcome to extension horses, tack box talk series horse stories with a purpose. I'm your host, Dr. Kris Hiney, with Oklahoma State University, and we're going to be continuing today. Our talks about the recent research featured at the Equine Science Society. So I'm delighted to have a first-time guest to our podcast today. Dr. Alyssa Logan, from Middle Tennessee State University. So welcome, Alyss.
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Dr. Logan: Thank you so much for having me. So I will have to introduce you guys a little bit. So Dr. Logan is a a fairly recent, but out a year now, Phd. Graduate from Michigan State University, which is where I also did my Phd. Work, and we did some similar types of things for our Phd. Work. So maybe just give us a brief rundown of what you did there? Dr. Logan. Absolutely So I did, both my masters, and I think
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at Michigan State University, studying exercise physiology, and Dr. Brian Nielsen.
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Dr. Logan: and one of the things we focused on during my graduate tenure was bone and joint health of young animals, and very similar to some of Dr. Hiney's Phd, work. I also utilized a calf model. because it's tired of horses. That's one little guys to work with.
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Dr. Logan: So we looked at sprint exercise in these calves, and found that, you know, allowing a short amount of sprinting during the week will have a 25% increase to both strength. And then we did a circular exercise study and found that just doing small circles for only 6 weeks led to some some changes between the inside and the outside front legs of these calves. So really interesting starting work. kind of the tip of the iceberg with the circular exercise stuff. There's so much more we can learn about.
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Dr. Logan: And I think we're going to talk about one of those later today, when we're talking about abstracts of of some other kind of alternative animal work that helps inform horse stuff. So. But bottom line, I think both A Alyssa and I would agree, for a young animals don't lock them up, it turns out and let them run around a little bit. That would be an animal.
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Kris Hiney: Yeah, it turns out it's it's good stuff.
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Kris Hiney: all right? So let's dive into some of our favorite abstracts from the meeting. So you want to discuss with us some use of technology. So this was a a paper looking at the validation of smart tech on looking at heart rate variability. So first of all, maybe give us a little information about
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Dr. Logan: why we care about heart rate variability versus just heart rate in the horse.
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Kris Hiney: Yeah, it's also used quite a bit in kind of well-being and behavior work, because essentially how much variability in the rate of the heart. Right? So there's a difference between parasympathetic and sympathetic control. So sympathetic nervous control is kind of think about that is with more stress response. and then parasympathetic is when you're like. And so we actually see more variability in the animal's heart rate under parasympathetic control. Just because
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Kris Hiney: you're not all stressed and making your heart like, I gotta, I gotta deal with this. So having the ability to have some good technology that can give us some feedback just at rest on whether they're fit. Stressed, etc. can be a good thing. So tell us about this technology. So this was super cool, and I think the title says it really well, a smart
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Dr. Logan: textile device, And listening to both reading the abstract and listening to the presentation. the author did a fantastic job sharing. This actually was kind of the sensors were knit into this kind of stretchy material that you would put kind of around the girth area on a horse instead of things that they've mentioned with, you know, kind of those adhesive Ecg, that you know. Maybe you've experienced. If you've ever had a heart workup.
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Dr. Logan: and being able to have kind of that stretchy material, might make this a little bit better option for consistent contact during exercise. And this study didn't quite get into the exercise part of things. They did exactly what they should with the first step with technology and determined. Okay is, can we? Is it? Can we
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Dr. Logan: validate it compared to the standard technology? And they did a great job of that. So you said, stretching material. Is it like the horse is wearing a sleazy? Or is it really just around the girth area? And maybe so, people know what it is
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Dr. Logan: yeah around the girth area. So for those of you that don't use sleazies, they're like.
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Kris Hiney: you know, hood, yeah, a net or a tight
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Dr. Logan: spandaxy, not super tight, but material that it's really close to the horse that we use to keep their hair kinda shiny and pretty. So this just was kind of simple and went around the growth area.
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Dr. Logan: Okay? And the and the tech was in the fabric. Yeah, super. I. I would love to like handle it and touch it. kind of so next steps. But it was gonna need. It was kind of woven into the fibers.
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Kris Hiney: Interesting? Yeah. Cause I know I've worked with some other folks. I'm trying to develop some tech for horses, and that that you're right, that adhesive thing. So we have all this cool technology that can tell us so much about what's going on in the horse and heart rate and temperature, and pulse ox and all this stuff. But, my goodness, it just doesn't stick with that hair coat and especially sweat. If we're thinking about exercise that it can make a difference.
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Dr. Logan: Okay, so this is promising. So that's The correlation between that, you know this new smart textile device. and a another Ecg device. they had the correlation of R is a one.
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Dr. Logan: So they kinda have really good matches. Yeah, it matches pretty well. Okay for those non statistic people out there. An R of one is essentially means same. Same same same. Yeah. I like it. Hey? I might have to look into that for some other projects that we have in mind here so fantastic news.
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all right, our next abstract we're going to talk about. is one that is near and dear to my heart as an extension person, because I think people really struggle with this. So, having some good data should help us. So, Alyssa, you wanted to talk about a paper that looked at horse owners, perspectives on weight management in horses.
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Dr. Logan: Yes. This was from like from Ross and colleagues. They administered an on farm questionnaire to horse owners and Prince Edward Island, Canada. So super cool. We're getting an international presence at Ess, and they found that these horse owners are tending to
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Dr. Logan: underestimate the condition score of their horses. Imagine that. Yeah, seems, I think I've seen that before.
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Dr. Logan: So horse owners are are always thinking their horses are leaner than they actually are, is what they found right? Yeah, 20.
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Kris Hiney: We're underestimating the condition of the horses. Okay, yeah, I I think we also see that in our companion animal population as well, we tend to have some, some overweight animals that people are like. Oh, no, that's normal and fine, and we're trying to say No, no, it's not so, but I'm sure there's more to it than that. What else did they find?
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Dr. Logan: there actually was fair agreement between veterinarians and the horse owners? Weight assessment. was a little bit lowest, because they had that 20 that estimated it to be an underestimate of weight. I think it was interesting. only 9% overestimated the horses weight and I think in terms of perceptions. You know, we we want to take care of our animals, and we don't want our animals to be too skinny. So something, you know, kind of get
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Dr. Logan: careful of this folks. I want to see bone. They don't want to see ribs And so horse owners seem to do a pretty good job of not let them get you Skinny, but kind of on the other side of things.
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Dr. Logan: It was really interesting. This group, instead of giving the owners the entire body condition score. I forget the exact terms. They went over these terms in there
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Dr. Logan: oral presentation. But they kind of said, are they under conditioned, healthy or over conditions? Something like that? So just had the owners identify. you know, too skinny, good or overweight. So it broke it down. Really? Well.
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Kris Hiney: good. Well, I think you know, this is always important to have this data, because I know this has been an issue in the horse industry that
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Kris Hiney: you know. People see a thin horse as a a welfare issue, but they don't always see an overweight animal as a as a welfare well-being issue, but it but it can be There's even been some papers. where horseshow judges were really not getting it right, and really, really overweight horses. And even we had some. I think we talked about it with Dr. Anderson the other day.
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Kris Hiney: a paper looking at, you know. Body condition, score of horses going to sales. Thorughbred sales, and people are really pushing these guys to, you know, a little bit more of that fat, sleek side. But remember ultimately, that's that's not the most beneficial thing that we can can do for them. Right? So
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Dr. Logan: moderate condition guys. They don't need to have more more weight on them than necessary. And then we kind of make that relationship between, you know, the bone and the joint health and keep in a healthy way, it's important all around
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Kris Hiney: yeah, absolutely, no, I think, when we were talking a little bit not recording here yet that you said something about the people's emotions. Yeah, let's talk about it. It's not just kind of read what they wrote here. They said, emotional responses to managing under versus overweight horses and societal norms influenced horse owners decisions.
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Dr. Logan: you know, versus
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Dr. Logan: the the education, maybe from extension. But more than it's the societal norms and emotions that are driving. Oh, I don't want to see the ribs, that's let's get them all our food. Let's get them a little bit squishier. And it's not ideal.
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Kris Hiney: No, no, yeah. I I mean, there's just so much data. And and we have a lot more. Again. I'm gonna lean into my companion animals. but that I mean, you can extend lifespan by keeping them a a little bit leaner. So I think for horse owners. We need to think about that. We talked about a paper the other day. That exercise turns out to be a great way, so don't forget that in your toolbox? it can be really, really beneficial for them.
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Dr. Logan: Alright. So our last one, we're gonna do So this is fun. We're gonna talk about sheep. So we wanted to branch out to a new audience of sheep producers and invite them to listen to our podcast here. So what are we going to talk about with sheep? Dr. Logan? Okay, so kind of what Dr. Hiney and I can introduce is with some of our
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Dr. Logan: work in our graduate studies involving models. this was done at Michigan State University, and I actually got the privilege to advise some of this research that was going on. They looked at the incident rate of lesions and the distal fore limb of growing exercise sheep as a model for horses, and the reason that they've chosen a sheep model over what we've done with the calf model.
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Dr. Logan: long term exercise with calves. Just they're over it really. The thing with sheeps. They have a really large flight z10, let them in on mechanical Walker, and you know that those panels from the mechanical walker they they just see it come in. They're like, all right. Let's move
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Dr. Logan: where the cattle are like cool laying down. Let's take a nap. It's you know. It's just easier to keep the sheep going forward.
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Kris Hiney: So now I'm just off on a completely different tangent, but like the caless that you use, they were Holstein's, which are. Oh, right. And the what if you got like some zibu cattle in there? Would that work better, I think. Probably. Yeah. The Holsteins were, like they, you know you're walking them, and they would just want to cuddle in there, and not not great models of faster, longer term exercise, super good for quicksprint. Love them for that.
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Dr. Logan: So after some trial and error, we kind of found the sheep models better. But you know accessibility wise, you know, like that ziboo kind of cattle. We haven't really tried that before, not easy to access, but she are very easy to access.
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Kris Hiney: Well, I just want to bring in all of the species, so they'll have some fun. So alright. So so we got to get people's minds wrapped around this so exercising sheep in a circle. They're in a hot walker, right? So we're not lunging sheep. We're not. Gosh! Oh, my! It was like flying a kite. That would be fun, though. Okay, so and and just to get all of our language here. So when you're looking at the distal forelimb
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Dr. Logan: still for them, that means low down guys, right? So. what part of the leg were they looking at? And compare that in a horse? So basically comparing to a horse, the knee
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Dr. Logan: and the fetlock.
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Dr. Logan: So past the shoulder, we're not looking up there. We're looking down low.
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Kris Hiney: Okay? So in these sheep that we're running around in a hot walker. Good picture that. So you said, take us back to the results here on what they actually found. in
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Dr. Logan: what happened with the sheep. Yeah. So I'm gonna do my best take stats out of this, but pretty much what they found is when they looked at these sheep. kind of regardless of what they were doing. They they had control treatments to so straight line control, and a resting control that all of these sheep that were young and growing had lesions in their joints, like almost all of them.
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Dr. Logan: Okay, yeah, it's pretty interesting. And it kind of not expected. I have to be honest, going into this as a group, we kind of thought we're gonna find exercise differences. We're gonna find that the circular exercise would have greater instance instance in this model? and it was just kind of across the board without a treatment difference. Kind of surprising.
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Dr. Logan: So is that because I assume these sheep are also raised for a high rate of gain. Right?
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Dr. Logan: these are production type of animal. And that's something that you know. It's kind of unique between something like sheep or cattle compared to a horse. We are still, of course, kind of having a decent rate of gain, because these are, you know, larger horse is going to be able to go into training a little bit earlier. But these animals that are kind of focused for more of the products that they're going to give us. That certainly is a priority. And you know they they have a lot more knowledge on that side of things with the production animals so
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Dr. Logan: certainly know that this genetic line, these animals that we use they they have a high rate of gain. would be really interesting. And this is kind of very long time to take
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Dr. Logan: animals like these to shape sheep and kind of breed a line that is our exercise line that has that that doesn't have that production focus as much, but maybe might have a more moderate rate of gain to see that that might be different. So it's interesting to think about.
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Kris Hiney: Have you ever tried hair sheep?
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No, I don't think they did that. They had the polypay sheep that was kind of what they're working with at the university, and I think it's pretty mixed purpose. I am not a sheep expert, though.
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Kris Hiney: Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I I'm not either, because I would assume maybe there's a difference between the sheep that are pretty produce for meat production versus wool, because you keep wool sheep around longer.
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Kris Hiney: and that's why I was like, Oh, maybe here sheet, because they keep them around longer, and I know they love them for herding trials, because they actually are more like, go go, go kind of sheep. So there's my congestion. I'm Zebu cattle and hair sheep to just mix it up. All these are fine. Thank you. Well, come on, if it's not worth doing, you're right. That's right. That's right.
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Kris Hiney: Okay, so unfortunately, the sheep in a circle exercise didn't yield as much results for horses at this point in time.
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Dr. Logan: Not it depends how we look at it when we when we're going for like, okay, we
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Dr. Logan: didn't quite found the exercise differences. We thought we would, because this kind of was something that happened to all of the sheep.
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Dr. Logan: but something to think about, because we have things like Ocd. And horses, and we do have some faster growing youngsters. So certainly something that
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Dr. Logan: it's not that it doesn't apply to the horses. It just doesn't what we were looking for as soon as we find those surprises and research. but still important information with the horses to
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Dr. Logan: because really, with. With these terminal models, such as sheep or calves, we can get information that benefits the equine industry that maybe we couldn't get directly from a large cohort of horses. I mean, we had 42 sheep.
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Dr. Logan: It's not too often that we see 42 animals on a so using these models. And what's important to from learning from these models is refining them. So, you know, having a discussion about maybe a fiber sheep is better or
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Kris Hiney: different animal altogether. Maybe we need to think about goats. Who knows? Okay, goats. Do you like to run around too? Well, if you need to test on how far sheeps run? I certainly my dogs will help volunteer to do that.
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Kris Hiney: Well, I really appreciate you coming to our program today, Alyssa, so glad to to have you in the fold of our tack box. Talk and would certainly like to have you back if there's anything else you'd like to talk about in the future. Yes, thank you so much. Would love to chat horse, judging in the future. That would be fun. Okay. Well, we might get you here later. Once we've gone through all of our fun learning about researches. our Ecoin Science society. So
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well again, guys, thanks so much for listening. if you have any questions. You can visit us at extension extension horses.com or email us at extension horses@gmail.com. So either one. And again. That has been our tech box dot course stories with a purpose
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Kris Hiney: question.