Episode 22 - Sarah Cipkar

Making Space for Change: The Journey of Sarah Sipkar and Resomate

Discover how Sarah Cipkar transitioned from community activism and urban planning to founding Resomate, a pioneering company focused on backyard homes and modular construction solutions that address housing shortages. Her story highlights the power of hands-on experimentation, innovative use of technology, and the importance of community-focused solutions in modern urban development.

In this episode, we discussed:

• Sarah's unconventional path from childhood community leader to CEO of Resimate
• The inception of backyard ADUs during COVID and their potential to reshape housing in Canada
• Navigating the construction industry without a traditional background
• How policy, technology, and community needs intersect in Sarah’s work
• The role of women in construction and leadership and fostering diversity in startups
• Practical advice on networking, mentorship, and leveraging creativity in a fast-paced industry

Timestamps:

00:00 - Introducing Sarah Cipkar and her mission to simplify backyard housing
 02:17 - From childhood leadership to community politics and early passions
 09:22 - The story of building her backyard ADU during COVID
 12:10 - Transitioning from personal project to a tech-driven solution with Resimate
 13:22 - Lessons learned about construction and industry perceptions
 16:11 - Core business: modular, offsite backyard homes in Canada
 23:23 - Sarah’s relationship with the construction industry and her evolving role
 35:53 - Strategies for effective networking and support for women in industry
 40:37 - Reflecting on achievements and the importance of autonomy in her journey
 46:14 - Advice for young women considering careers in construction
 
 

This episode explores innovative approaches to urban housing, emphasizing community impact, diversity, and entrepreneurship within the construction and urban planning sectors.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hello and welcome to Building Your Story, the podcast that shares the stories of successful women in the construction industry. My name is Diane and I will be your host. The construction industry may come across as traditional and male-dominated, making it seem daunting for women. For the last nine years, I've had the opportunity to work in value setting and environments in this industry. From Michalwit to Bermuda, from construction to design, from architecture to engineering, I have met amazing women. Women who are truly passionate about their work. It is their stories that I want to share today. From engineers to CEO, site superintendent to project manager, we'll hear from women at different stages of their career. Some are reserved, some are outspoken, but all are carrying out a space to be their authentic selves. These women represent the diversity of our field. Despite their differences, one thing unites them all: their strengths and the power of their stories. Join us for a frank and open discussion as we explore the specific challenges that women face in their career, as well as the many opportunities that exist in our industry. Learn about the tactics and perspectives that have helped these women to confidently take their place in the field, including how to overcome the famous imposter syndrome. Building your story is also an opportunity to hear about your story. Whether you have a personal story to share, a burning question to ask, or a recommendation for guests who can bring a unique perspective to the table, your input is invaluable. Together, we can inspire change. Together, we can share amazing stories. Now, let's hear how our guests build our story. One step at a time. To kick things off, can you tell us a little bit about yourself? We'd love to know your name, how old you are, where you're from, and what do you do for a living?

SPEAKER_00 2:02

Sure, yeah. Um, my name is Sarah Sipkar. I am the founder and CEO of Resumate. We are a company that focuses on backyard homes built off-site, but then we do all the installation work for the homeowner. I am 35 years old. I had to think about that for a second. Um always get I'm getting my I'm at this where I'm starting to forget how old I am. I'm 35 and I actually live in Windsor, Ontario for most of the time. But our office is actually in Hamilton, Ontario, and our team is kind of remotely distributed. So I do a lot of travel for work as a lot of our projects that we're working on are in the uh Toronto and Hamilton area. But I'm born and raised in Windsor and uh consider it my home.

SPEAKER_01 2:44

Amazing. So before we get into the high and lows of your career, let's ruin the bit. And when you were a little girl, what were your dreams?

SPEAKER_00 2:52

You know what? I don't, I I I was trying to remember of like what I actually wanted to be. And I don't know that I had like a concrete dream of, you know, wanting to be this person or wanting like, you know, the typical jobs, but I was always the kid that was organizing people. Like when we would play house, it was like, okay, you're doing this, you're doing this, we're making sure that everything's functioning. I'm the kind of like project manager leader person. So that maybe says a lot about what I do now. I also was the kid that um got involved in like politics and um community life very early um in my life. And actually, my mom one year for Christmas um bought me a subscription to McLean's magazine. So when I was like 11 or 12, like when I was young. Um I've always been uh really involved, I would say, in community things. So I don't necessarily think I had an idea, but I I kind of was always in that political or like leadership position as well.

SPEAKER_01 3:45

Do you remember like as a kid, like why did you feel it was important for you to get involved into your community and like why you were interested in politics?

SPEAKER_00 3:52

Yeah, I think there was something about it that uh really just like to me, politics is always about a shared life together. It's like all the decisions that we make, you know, for how our communities are. And I think there was something at that age that just felt very intuitive that I enjoyed um thinking about more of the macro picture of how everything's kind of working together. I at the age of, I believe it was 12 or 13, I was actually a legislative page at Queen's Park, uh, which is like if you ever watch, if you ever get bored enough and you're watching the like Canadian political channels, you see these little, well, they're kids, they're 13, I was 13, um, in like these black and white kind of wardrobes. And they do a lot of the like assistant duties for the members of parliament. Um, and it's quite a like, you know, prestigious role. Only like 20 kids are selected across the the province. Um, and you essentially live there for like three months. And so I'm going down a bit of a tangent, but I think that really actually informed a lot of me feeling very independent, being able to take on leadership roles because I was away from home so young. And then that just kind of carried with me in my high school and university days.

SPEAKER_01 4:54

Oh, so tell us how do you go from that childhood to uh I guess to getting into the industry, the construction industry? What did you study? Did you know what you wanted to do when you get into high school?

SPEAKER_00 5:04

Yeah, it was a very nonlinear path, I'll say. I did my undergrad in international relations and development studies. So it was more focused on wanting to do something more political, but internationally in the political space. But then I did my master's degree in political science, and I actually worked with a geographer who was doing a lot of work in the transit space, and I wrote an entire thesis around how the average person gets involved in their community with respect to transit decision making. But that actually really turned my mind to urban planning. And I realized, like, oh, I actually really like cities, I like people. And so I applied for my PhD at the University of Toronto in urban planning. Um, and they have a combined urban planning geography uh program, so it kind of worked well with where I was coming from. And then then I started thinking about housing, and then I was doing community development work where I was seeing a lot of issues in the neighborhood that I was working in in terms of like vacancy, whether it was like vacant buildings, like storefronts, homes, and how that was kind of causing a lot of issues within the neighborhood. And so I really became involved from a just thinking about like development, like well, why isn't anyone fixing up these homes? Why is this lot vacant? Why were, you know, all these things. So I started asking a lot of questions with respect to just the urban planning and economics questions of those real estate decisions and how investment shapes the future of neighborhoods and cities. And that led me to additional dwelling units and small scale development and really thinking about, oh, like these are this is a a really practical way that the average person could actually make change in their community. They could add a unit for their family, they could build a backyard home, they could, you know, fix up um a home and even and rent it again, just even in terms of like, you know, some of the vacant or abandoned buildings we had here in Windsor. So a lot of that to me was like this really interesting kind of space. And so I started doing it practically as well as in my research in Toronto as well.

SPEAKER_01 6:52

So at that time, are you still studying? Are you already working? Like, what is your, I guess, end of your study and what do you picture for yourself in terms of working? Like, what is it? Because it seems you have like all these questions, you're looking at like all these different things. Like, what do you think your career would look like when you're at the end the end of your study?

SPEAKER_00 7:08

That's a great question. And I feel like in some ways, no one knows. So I think what happened was I was working in the community development field when I started answering all those questions around um small scale development and and housing and things like that. That led me to doing research on backyard homes. And so when I think about the future, I hope to be always doing some kind of research and in the space of where I'm looking at, okay, where are we at in terms of the housing industry right now and where should we be going? And I feel like resume in a lot of ways has been this really like hands-on, practical, grounded kind of experience that is really missing from academia in a lot of ways. You know, I there's this one time when I was like, I remember because I was doing my first classes remotely, and I was sitting in my my office. You know, we're talking about these like complex, like, you know, uh problems like like like racism or into intersectionality and like thinking about like, you know, cities through that lens. And then I have like a group of guys in the backyard building a house and they're just yelling and swearing at each other. They don't care at all about any of the things that I was learning about, and yeah, they're the ones who are building the homes. And so there's like such a big disconnect, I think, from like the actual construction industry and like how things work, and then versus what we think c cities should be like. And so for me, my work, a lot of it is like really trying to understand that gap and speaking about it from from that um from that angle is that like, you know, we're missing the boat here. We're we're thinking about like all these things, which are great, but none of them are really grounded in reality. Or sometimes I would say they're grounded in, you know, problems that aren't actual problems in the real world, I like to say.

SPEAKER_01 8:41

Yeah, I know. And I think it's really interesting, and it reminds me um a little bit about what Noah Hashem, and I know you know as well, was saying in the podcast about how like it was important for to get like all the academic knowledge as well and build like an understanding of the society or the issues we are facing to get that strong knowledge, but then to see like now that I have all that, what do I do with that? So it actually has an impact in the world we live on. And I feel like you have like that similar, similar approach of being like, I need to know like everything, but then I also need to make it practical and useful for like people's lives.

SPEAKER_00 9:13

Yeah, it's it's so true. It's like, you know, we're having this problem in Canada right now with not enough housing being built, and then actually being on the ground building housing just at even that small scale. I'm like, oh, I can tell you a lot of reasons why housing's not being built now. Because if if if we're experiencing these problems and we're trying to scale a business from, you know, across a province, all of the different disconnects of like why it's not happening at scale, to me, I can articulate it very clearly now. And then also then now we're starting to hear researchers start to echo echo back some of those problems that I'm like, yep, we know that one, we know that one, we know that one. So, but I don't know that I would have learned that had I not, you know, had the more hands-on. But I but I also love the academic world where then you can put those thoughts and those knowledge, like that knowledge into production in a way where it's like you can start to shape the discourse and and push on things.

SPEAKER_01 9:59

So let's take us back to the the beginning of research. Sure, sure. So I know it includes your backyard during COVID. Tell us that story and how it all started.

SPEAKER_00 10:07

Yeah. So the jump really from you know, my nonprofit community development and academic world to what I'm doing now is uh started with building my own backyard home. You know, I s when I started learning about zoning by like bylaws, how they affect my lot and all this kind of thing, I realized that oh, I could actually build like a detached additional dwelling unit in my backyard. And I had a good friend at the time who was an architect, and he kind of just started playing around with drawings and was and I was like, you know what, I should do this. It just was like the right moment, and then COVID happened. So I started the process and then COVID happened, and then I was really like needing a project because my contract ended because then we were working from home and I was there was this gap where I hadn't started my PhD yet, um, the summer of 2020. And so I just worked on getting the building permit and and and building the home. And it was a 430 square foot unit. I also had a family friend who was able to build the home for me, and so we kind of worked together on the design and and got it all in place, and so I broke ground in August of 2020. And to me, there was always a sense of that that project was going to be I was a bit of a guinea pig because I was the first in Windsor and uh ADUs were fairly new in the province as well. Like Windsor was actually one of the first cities that allowed for them and they started becoming a little bit more popular. And so I felt like I was kind of paving the way for others to do it in a way, even though I if I wasn't clear on what that looked like yet. And then so then from there, um, there CMHC put out a housing supply challenge, and there was this data-driven round which essentially said, could you find a solution to increase housing supply and affordability? And so my kind of hypothesis was like, well, we don't actually know where we can build these detached ADUs based on existing bylaws. Like cities are putting out these bylaws, but what if they don't work in practice? What if like, you know, the majority of lots can't even have them because the setbacks are too, you know, strict or onerous. And so we proposed doing um a property mapping tool so that we could actually map thousands of backyards in an automated way, and then you could actually see like how many units could fit in cities. And through that project, we ended up getting funding to map over 30 cities across Canada, and we determined that over 40% could house a minimum size detached ADU, and then even more could house an internal ADU. So that would be like converting your basement or something like that. Um, so that was like kind of a research project, and so um that project was called ADU Search, uh, which it's it's still technically up and running as a research project, but we've shifted all of our property mapping tool to resume, which is now resumate.build, R-E-S-I-M-A-T-E dot build, and there's a property mapping tool that's basically the same, all the same data, you know, technology there. Um, and so we asked, we started, you know, doing that project. And then at the end of it, people started saying, okay, my lot is suitable. I can build an ADU, like now what?

SPEAKER_01 12:57

What do I do next?

SPEAKER_00 12:58

We're like, yeah, exactly. So then we were like, okay, we need to set people up to actually be able to build. And we realized there was this gap with also manufacturers who were building off-site and building these units, and they weren't able to necessarily know all the zoning bylaws in a city that was four hours away. And so we made these connections with manufacturers where then we could then take that unit, put it on a site plan, and then do all the permitting work for the homeowner. And so that was kind of like how we we started resume was to make that connection to the manufacturers through our property mapping tool.

SPEAKER_01 13:29

That's cool. So let's get back to just when you build that when you build that unit in your in your backyard. I guess at that time you had zero experience with the construction industry. I don't know if you were really handy or if it was something that was totally new to you. But what did you discover about the construction industry? And and I guess what did you like? What was surprising to you?

SPEAKER_00 13:47

Yeah, I didn't know anything. I mean, my dad ran a tool and die shop for you know 30 years, but I never was really into construction. There's no one in my family or my background that was a part of it. So for me, it was a lot of learning. And um, thankfully, the family friend I had who built the unit was really generous. And um I even said to him, like, I kind of want you to like mentor me through this and you know, talk through everything and like help me understand kind of the order of operations, even of how of like a home was built. And then the same thing with my architect friend, he would be really helpful in explaining like this is what the building inspector is gonna do, this is like what the thing is, you have to do this, this, and this. So I was just in a position where I had good people around me that kind of mentored me through that process. I've never taken like a building science course, which I would like to do. But now I know a lot more after having done like so many projects. But you know, construction to me is kind of just what I learned from it is that it's just project management and you need to know a little bit about everything, but you just need to also have good trades to be able to trust them at every step of the way. And you need to know what you don't know, so then you can let that professional kind of step in. And so, you know, when I'm having issues with something related to like the plumbing or the electrical or whatever, it's like I can maybe say, maybe that will work as a solution, but I need to get back to you. Like, we need to have our plumber on site and go go actually check that out. You know, I can look at drawings now and I can understand, like, okay, I know what what our value is, like what the insulation needs to be. I can I can look at all that, but I'm not the person responsible for signing off on it and making sure it's good to go. But I've definitely learned a lot about what to look for, like what is a good system um and what isn't. And then I think because I'm in the urban planning and geography space anyway, site plans come very naturally in terms of seeing a backyard, drawing it out, and being able to understand, like, you know what, it would be better if the unit is placed here. Here's a ch like all those types of things. And sometimes people have that natural sense. I think I always I've always played with space. I really like interior design and all that. So, but it's been it's been a lot of learning about how to navigate different zoning bylaws across different municipalities. And no, I don't have a background in it. So if anyone takes anything from this podcast, it's like you really can do anything.

SPEAKER_01 15:54

So I love that. And that's what everyone that comes to to this uh podcast kind of says. Like, you don't need there's nothing that you really need to know as long as you know what you don't know, and that you're like very like transparent about it and you're like humble about it, and there is no like so what a lot of people like about the industry as well. If we look at what resume is today, what is kind of like the core of your business and what is the biggest goal that you're working toward today?

SPEAKER_00 16:19

Yeah, the core of our business is really helping homeowners install backyard homes from different manufacturers across the country. So right now there is this big push in module in in terms of modular construction, and that's true on like even a bigger scale. You know, you see these big um condo buildings, apartment buildings, and people are starting to use modular construction, which means essentially just off-site and then assembled on site. So the the time on site is much faster. Uh, but for ADUs, we can build an entire unit completely off-site and then crane it into place. And for me, I do think there is a place for custom like traditional construction where you're building everything right on site, but I do see a huge opportunity in terms of people being able to like go into almost like a, let's say, like a home dealership or something like that, where they could go pick out unit that they like, pick out all the finishes, and then have it in their backyard in a fairly quick amount of time. And the reason why I say this is because a lot of our homeowners that we're working with are usually dealing with a family member and they need to move fast or they're like, you know, we need this unit in there in six months, or or that kind of a thing. And off-site construction really can compress the timelines because you're doing everything in parallel. In fact, oftentimes that, you know, construction period, the phase is actually our shortest phase. It's usually permitting that takes longer, truthfully, in a lot of municipalities, which is crazy. So I think for resume, what we're really trying to do is work with small to medium-sized manufacturers who really just want to build nice, good quality units and worry about putting it on a truck, and then we kind of take care of care of the rest with the homeowner. And so trying to figure out how to scale that business across different municipalities because the other part of it is a lot of construction is very localized, especially at that smaller scale. It can be very artisanal. And sometimes that's good because sometimes people really want, you know, their custom ADU that is exactly the way that they want it, windows out in all the right spots. But a lot of people will walk through our demo units and be shocked at how nice they are and be like, wow, this is so nice. I do really want a 600 square foot unit for my parents or for my my kids that need to get out of the house. And this will fit the bill, and then you can it's usually slightly cheaper and then also can be done much faster. So I think there's a real opportunity for to meet the housing needs of Canadians across the country.

SPEAKER_01 18:30

We've talked uh earlier about, you know, when you were a child and how important it was for you to make an impact on the society in the society that you live in. Um, and I think you're very clear about your mission and and if I quote it, make it easy for Canadians to build housing in their own backyard. So why is it still like so important for you today to, I guess, feel that mission?

SPEAKER_00 18:51

Yeah, I think, you know, a lot of people are feeling really stuck in today's economy, um, you know, and they're also not just from like a financial sense, but also I think from like a family and social sense. But I think COVID really exposed a lot of our vulnerabilities with respect to being really socially isolated, how difficult that can be, you know, when you're far away from family members, etc. And so I think detached ADUs really provide this unique opportunity where people can kind of take action and build a unit and then they can and then whether that is for an additional stream of income, or if it's for a family member that's struggling, whether, you know, whether it's to enter the housing market or if it's for parents who just want to be closer to their kids, you know, it's it's an opportunity for people to add units in a really uh, I would say gentle way. It's like part of the gentle density or gentlefication kind of movement. So for example, like with my ADU, uh currently my brother lives in it and that's you know, he's seven years younger. It's a totally different world than when I was buying my first home for him. And so and he's getting married and allows allowed him to, you know, create his own space. And so I think like for me, I see detached ADUs as being a very much kind of part of the future in terms of how people think about housing. I I also think that aging parents is another huge one when you look at, you know, the cost of a long-term care home or when people are trying to downsize or and things like that. A lot of people in that age bracket did buy their homes and they probably do have a lot of space and they do have a backyard. And we have, for example, homeowners who the parents built a brand new ADU and they're moving into the backyard, and then essentially the kids are moving into the front house, and then there's that built-in child care, there's that built-in support there for the parents. And so I just think it's a really smart way that a lot of cultures already do. It's kind of the North American variant of like, you know, we want to keep our family close but not too close. And I just think it's a really beautiful way for people to kind of age in place. So yeah, for me, it's it I really see the social and the homeowner side of it as much as I see the financial drivers.

SPEAKER_01 20:49

But do you do you feel people know about it when you talk to them? Or like, because I feel like, you know, when you talk about it, it's like, oh, great idea. Why don't why don't everybody do that, right? Like, how do you advertise about it and how do you reach out to all the people? I think you've mentioned 40% of the CT's red screen add an opportunity to do something.

SPEAKER_00 21:06

Yeah, there's been a bunch of different ways. I mean, I do think we're still at the early adoption phase. Like when you look at places like California, for example, they're about five or ten years ahead of us, and a lot of people know what ADUs are now. I was watching actually a reality TV show last night, and they were like, This is the couple that lives in the guest house. And I and me and my daughter were like, Oh, it's an ADU. And we were excited because we were like, they just knew what it, you know. And so it's much more common, I think, out west, uh, Vancouver similarly. So I think we're starting to get it. A lot of municipalities are actually promoting them now. And that's actually the other work that Resume does is we actually consult with municipalities around um ADU proposals and bylaws. And um, we help them kind of we have our property mapping tool. We can use their data and map the municipality. And we believe like that's kind of a good starting point for homeowners just to be able to do a quick check and say, you know, is there any red flags? And so that's been a really so we've worked with like Burlington, Waterloo, Guelph. Um We have Toronto mapped, Mississauga. So we have a lot of municipalities in Ontario mapped. And that that can be a good starting point. In terms of actually getting the word out, we do a lot of seminars. Our team does a lot of ADU 101 kind of seminars. We put out promotion on social media. Um, and we're just really trying to get the word out. I think we still have a few more years until, you know, people are naturally thinking about ADUs as a solution, the same way they'd be thinking about a condo or a long-term care home. So I think we're we're getting there, but it's gonna take a few more years, I think. That's cool.

SPEAKER_01 22:30

Yeah. Um, let's go back a little bit to the construction industry itself. I know we've talked in the past and you were like, oh, I don't know if I really, if I am part of the construction industry and, you know, yet you are like building houses in people's backyards. So for sure you are. How do you see your relationship today with the within with the construction sector itself?

SPEAKER_00 22:47

Yeah, that's I mean, it's a great question because when I when I got into doing all this, I never saw myself, you know, running a construction company at all. It was just like, you know, but it just felt like the natur the natural step. I actually love building. I, you know, I love being on site, I love seeing the units come in. It's like a really exciting thing. I I think I'm a pretty good problem solver. I have a team who's really good at problem solving, and so that's a lot of what we're doing. In some ways, all of construction is is problem solving. You know, you're like, okay, here's what we have, here's what we're working with, here's the site constraints, how can we get the most out of this for the cheapest amount, the best outcome for the homeowner? And so you're always kind of, you know, every every project we iterate on. And so for me, in terms of being a part of the construction industry, I would say, you know, we had probably done over 10 projects before I even bought my first pair of uh construction boots in hard hat because I was never the one on site. I was just always from afar. And then finally I was like, I need to get some boots because I keep having to like go eventually because we have like a we now have a construction manager, we had other people managing things, was uh I'm actually a lot more on the permitting and account management side. I kind of know a little bit about everything in the company, all the way from like the actual sales of the unit. So, you know, working with the manufacturers, making sure like, you know, their product is aligned with what we think the homeowners are needing. Like sometimes we need to say to manufacturers, like, hey, you have this one unit, but everyone keeps saying they don't like this about it. You might want to change the design. And so, you know, we have a few of us on the team that do that kind of work, and then all the way into like the actual permitting. Right now, we actually don't have a permits coordinator on our team just just because of uh attrition and things like that. And so I've been doing a lot of the actual like permitting work and and getting the projects through. And that is really instructive because that's when you're looking at the zoning, then you're looking at the building and you're looking between different manufacturers, and you got to make sure that you know the utility the biggest barrier a lot of times is sometimes the incoming utilities of like is the water, the water service sized correctly, all that. And so doing a lot of that kind of work is is what I'm doing. So I feel like some ways I'm like a construction and min assistant sometimes, making sure everything fits together. Um, I keep my team on track in terms of the delivery dates. Every week we have a meeting and I'm like, we go through, okay, here are the next, you know, eight projects for the next two months. Cause we basically have like um an installation every week for the next, let's say, almost like eight to ten weeks. And so we're making sure that everything is lined up. And then if they need support, I'm able to say, okay, let me make that call. So you go do that, I'll go do this. And so I think a lot of it is just troubleshooting and problem solving and making sure that things are covered. And yeah, and thankfully have a great team who does a lot of that too.

SPEAKER_01 25:22

That's amazing. It seems that even inside resume, you already have a lot of different hats to wear. And then on top of that, you are you're a researcher, police policy expert, community developer, PhD candidate. How do you make it all work? Like it just seems like a lot of things to fit in at 2020.

SPEAKER_00 25:36

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, so right now I'm on a leave of absence for my PhD. So I I will say I decided to do that because it was was becoming too much. You know, I made it through three years of my PhD and you know, doing ADU search and resume, and then I was burning out. I burnt out really hard. And that was about 2024 now. At the end of 2024, yeah. So I've been on a leave of absence because I feel like resume is at this, it kind of feels like a child in a way, where it's like it's at this really critical point where it's like I don't want to step away and miss all the years, you know, or like, or my team really needs me. Um, and I do feel like, you know, that kind of sense of commitment to the team. So, and my PhD I can always come back to. And if anything, I think this work will inform the research that I end up doing. So I'm I'm on a bit of a break right now. So that helps quite a bit. And so I I will say then there's also the part of resume where we do a lot of the policy work. I wish we did more. I wish that we could do like, I wish I could spend a lot of my time doing like more of the policy and advocacy stuff because I think it's so important. So we do, I would say, if I'm lucky, I'll get to do 10 to 20% in a week where we're we're doing we're doing that kind of work. So I'm able to fit it in that way as well. And then, and then yeah, I just think, like I said, like when I have conversations with homeowners, a lot of that is always running in the back of my mind in terms of how people are thinking about it, what's the cultural zeitgeist, what's the research that I want to do. Um, and so I'm kind of just it's always on in the background, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 26:59

Yeah, everything is connected and everything kind of like feed each other. And and you're right as well. You've you've mentioned resume as being like one of your of your kids, but you're also a mother, so that also takes some time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:11

Yes, I do have a daughter and she's she's 10 now, she's gonna be 11. And she is uh she's really creative and and likes to draw and is also inter kind of interested in building. So I'm like, okay, so she likes to kind of be involved and and see things that are going on too.

SPEAKER_01 27:25

I love that. So well, actually, great transition. Let's talk about being a woman in the industry. And and I'm sure like having a daughter is probably making you think about it uh a little bit. Like, do you feel that your gender? I mean, today you're a CEO, you've you founded resume, and I don't know if you know you probably didn't think that that was going to come into your life. But how how do you feel being a woman has shaped your care? Was it in any positive way, negative way, or is it just same, same?

SPEAKER_00 27:49

Yeah, um, great question. Um, I should say I do have a couple male business partners, but I am the only woman on the team right now, although we did have some in the past. I will say that being surrounded by um a bunch of guys on the team who have a lot of integrity and are very much like supportive and never never see me as different means a lot because I never really I don't doubt really my place. If anything, I doubt my place geographically. I wish I was closer to them because they're in the office a lot of days in Hamilton and I I really enjoy, you know, being a part of the team. But it all kind of feels like we're a we're on a sports team and we're all working towards a goal, which is just like winning the game. And so I feel very much like supported. I think one of the things, and I don't know if anyone, if they'll if they listen to this, if they would um agree with this, but I do think there is a lot of masculine energy, not to be too, you know, up in that space. But there is, you know, I I think a way that they all interact, which is which is fine. And I think sometimes I'm able to be a little bit more tapping into the emotional side of things, or I'm often the one that is bringing everybody together so we're not working in silos. Um, you know, I'll say to the sales team, like, hey, how are things going? Because I know the construction manager, they might not have any sort of clue. So let's have a full team meeting, let's all talk about this, make sure we're all on the same page in terms of people just being in the loop, like the on the schedule. Just so you guys know, the the sales that you guys did six months ago, those are getting installed now. And so um, I'm tend to be the person who brings everyone together. And I take that r role actually very seriously because when you're in a startup, especially, if you're not all aligned on the vision and you're not all working in the same direction towards the same goals, can get it could go awry very quickly. Um, you know, all of a sudden someone has a good idea and then they're off doing something, you're like, no, no, no, that doesn't actually, that's that's not aligned with what we're trying to do here. And so I keep track of like those those things. And so, so back to your question, I do think that like there is like a slight difference, but if anything, it's just like me leaning in more to my skill set and my natural kind of ability to bring people together. I could be, you know, I I maybe overstating it, but I I do think that like that has maybe does come from me being more relationally driven as a person. I think then beyond that, you asked if it makes a difference. You know, I think sometimes it's just like I stand out, like I stand out on a a you're just the odd person out. I'm often in meetings where it's all men or on a site visit, and it doesn't bother me. I have a pretty thick skin, so it doesn't bother me. But I've never really been in a situation where I felt undermined or anything. And if I have, sometimes I'll do like a sanity check with a team member being like, Did you did you see that? Or is that just me? And and if anything, my team then supports me. So I I don't I think I think the secret is having probably good male allies in the field that you can be honest with and also kind of sanity check around certain things from time to time. So yeah, that was a long answer.

SPEAKER_01 30:36

But no, that's all good. I I think yeah, from what everything you said, like it feels that you feel so safe with your own team that like everything around that is like even if it happens, you have like that kind of like team around you, like you know exactly what you're saying when you're playing sport, right? They're like around you, and like you're like, okay, well, okay, it's a little annoying, but but I know I have people around me that supports me. And I think that that makes a big difference because you you mention it, like sometimes we end up being the only woman in the room or the only woman in a side visit or on a side panel. And like when you know that you have that support and you have that team of guys that are like just cheering for you, then everything is easier, right? So it doesn't need to be all bad.

SPEAKER_00 31:13

Yeah, exactly. And in some ways too, it's sometimes I think it helps me connect more with the homeowners, especially I think like my connection to the actual like building the ADU and having a family member live in it, and I I'm able to connect on it in a different way um than I think with like our our homeowners that we're working with. And so again, it's like it's it's yeah, it's the team that, but it's also just like leaning into your skill set and being like, Yeah, I do play a bit of a different role in there. So I I don't mind it at all. I would like to have more women on our team. It's just like kind of the happenstance that we lost a couple over the last few years. But yeah, I think I think that's always something that's on my mind is making sure that like, yes, we want to have a good culture that people get along, but we also want to be, you know, diverse in that space. Um, and so it is something that's top of mind for me.

SPEAKER_01 31:57

Good. Let's talk about you've mentioned like you need to go and advertise, you go to panels, you go to conference. Like, do you find I know for a lot of the women and and a lot of the people that might be listening to us, like sometimes networking is hard. Have you found like anything that makes it a little easier to either go on the stage or like go introduce yourself and and make these connections? Because we know how networking is important in our industry.

SPEAKER_00 32:19

Yeah, for sure. You know, I think I've always been naturally very outgoing. Prior to this role, I actually was an elected school board trustee, which was that feels like a whole lifetime ago, but I that was part of my community work that I was doing a lot of. So I've knocked on a lot of doors, like thousands of doors. So I've to I've talked to people, and there's nothing really that can replace knocking on someone's door and then having to pitch yourself to you know that person. It's a really unique experience. Being like, I'm running for school board trustee, and here's what I want to do in the community for X, Y, and Z. So I think because of that, I have that's why I think I do have a bit of a thick skin, and also I can be fine in those networking environments because I've I've had a lot of practice. And so I guess this maybe the advice or the thought around it is practicing. It's just like putting in the reps. Sometimes I don't want to go to networking events because I'm like, I don't feel like in the mood to talk to people today. But I I heard this one actual piece of advice from another woman who said, just just what's one connection you could make at this event? So on the days where I'm like not really feeling it or like I signed up to something that maybe I didn't want to go to, it's like, okay, let's just try to get one good connection out of this. Even if it's like you give someone a piece of encouragement. There's one time I went to an event and uh the woman who was presenting with she was talking about her experience with raising money, like uh for funding and how hard it was. And she said a couple of things and I just like beelined for her right after. And I said, Hey, you just were talking about this funding, and I just thought you might want to connect with these two venture capital groups that I'm that I'm familiar with. You might actually might be a good connection for you. Might, you know, maybe it doesn't work out, but then at least you have two more connections. And if you ever wanted to like chat with me about it, like here's my card. And so we've like loosely stayed in touch, but it it's just it was just for me that ability to say, like, okay, I'm gonna go share that with her really quickly. And then I actually had to leave because I had to run to something else. But I try to look for those moments to just be like, okay, how can I support one person or what's one connection I can make at this event, even if it's like not my day that I want to go or do something like that?

SPEAKER_01 34:11

I love that advice.

SPEAKER_00 34:13

Yeah, I'll pass that advice on, I guess, for now.

SPEAKER_01 34:15

Yeah, no, I love that because I think it's sometimes you also feel like, oh, like I need to go to a networking event. What what am I gonna get from that? But like you kind of like change that perspective on like I can also give something, and that's also a good thing out of my day. Like, I don't always need to like gain from networking sometimes by giving and then you know, give to gain and blah blah blah. But like it's also good to like just see like that different perspective. I I like that uh that approach as well.

SPEAKER_00 34:40

Yeah, I I'm generally in a a networking setting. I I think I my personality is naturally like how can I help? And so I'm often that kind of thinking in that space. And so for me, it's about making those connections that are mutually edifying or like reciprocal. And so I try really hard to think in those environments of like not just about like what I'm getting out of it, although I do benefit a lot from hearing women like speak, but it's yeah, it's that it's like what can I do in this in this setting? What connection can I make?

SPEAKER_01 35:09

Listening to you, it feels like you know, you are like a very like you go, go, go, and you just and you lead and you just take initiatives and all that. Is there anyone that has helped you? Like, have you had any mentors or any sponsor in your career that have helped you like, or is it just you are and you just go and just try for your best?

SPEAKER_00 35:25

It's a great question. I truthfully have always had like a sense of urgency to my personality to to the point where it's probably sometimes bad. Like, you know, I even in my personal life, I I'll be, I'll, I'll text my friends, I'll be like, oh guys, I just bought another, I bought a house. I'm gonna be moving in 30 days. Cause just because I just like once I saw something and it's like it's just clear, I'm very decisive in that way. And so again, sometimes I think that can be a detriment. I've gotten a lot better at doing like a sober second thought, or if I'm not feeling sure of like, you know, tagging people in on those decisions and and being really clear. But I do think I have a sense of that when I feel like something is the right decision and I feel peaceful about it, I'm okay to move on fairly quickly. And so at all the kind of like inflection points of my life, that's how I feel. And so I I've moved forward fairly quickly. In terms of mentors, to be honest, I've I've struggled with mentors in the sense that I don't I used to want to have a mentor that was like my life coach. That was my whole like, no, we met and all this. And I used to think of mentorship this really narrow way. But once I actually broadened my approach and maybe thought around mentorship to see like mentorship can happen at different points in time in small ways. So, for example, I have a PhD supervisor who is a mentor. We don't chat all the time, but she very much coaches me in the academic space and is also very encouraging of me in my resume career. You know, I have I have uh good friends who are maybe like five to ten years, maybe but they're in different sectors, whether it's like a more creative space actually or like real estate. And I will go to them and be like, what do you think of this in terms of graphic design? Or like, what do you think of in terms of like something that they would be really, you know, suited to answer? And so I I think of mentorship a lot broader now where it's like almost like I go to I have different people for different situations. And like I said, I had a family friend who mentored me through the process of the one ADU, and you know, him and I chat, you know, you know, once we we try to grab lunch once a quarter and and we keep in touch around certain things. So it's like just kind of narrowing when you have a narrow view, sorry, about mentorship. Sometimes I think it limits you, but if you broaden it to be like, I have all these people who are maybe five to ten years further ahead, and I can just go to them in certain moments for questions, and then they know that they could do the same with me if they need something. So that's kind of how I I approach mentorship now.

SPEAKER_01 37:38

I think it's a very important advice, especially for the people that are younger, because I'm like you. When I was younger, I was like, Who is gonna be my mentor? Like, you know, I was almost like looking around and being like, Where is he? Where is she? Like, who is it gonna And then like 10 years in your career, you're like, okay, like it's not one person, it's most of the time it's like an addition of a few people, and there are people that will give you like advice, people that will like sponsor you, people that will like put your name in like in a room full of opportunities. So there's different ways of of mentoring and sponsoring someone. But I do like the advice of like, especially when you're young, like and don't feel that like if you have one mentor one day it's gonna be your mentor for the rest of your life. Like, there's so many different opportunities to to get that uh that from someone. When we when you look back at the I guess as the at the first part, I guess, of your career and the last uh the last 10 years, what uh what are you the most proud of?

SPEAKER_00 38:26

Um, you know, I am really proud of working on solving a problem at a more macro level that also has given me a lot of financial freedom to live my life a certain way. Meaning I realized very early on that I'm not very much like a quote unquote nine to five kind of person, although I work crazy hours. So it's not, it's not about it's not but it's more about the ability to have freedom and autonomy and be in control. Some would argue that this business is definitely controlling us right now because we're still trying it's still trying to get off the ground and become sustainable. And you are trying to, you know, you're working a lot of hours, but I like that I'm kind of in control of it and I can I can make those decisions. And I never saw that in terms of like my parents telling me that that I could do that earlier on, but I saw it in practice. Like my dad ran a business, my mom and my stepdad are both therapists and they have their own private practice. And so I think I realized that like I I sorry, I should say I didn't believe that I could quote unquote um build a business or like make money or be financially successful when I was younger. But that's been a really big shift in my mentality in terms of just being like, oh, I can build I can I'm not I am good at numbers. I can understand how this works. Like I never saw myself in that space because I was like, oh, I'm not great at math. And but that's not really what being a business owner is required. That a lot of that work, like, yes, you do need to understand certain things, but that's not it's not a numbers game. It's a people game, it's a project management game. It's very much a leadership, you know, kind of environment. And so I realized that, like, oh, I can do all those things and and build a business. Uh in in another life, maybe I would have started a nonprofit, you know. I used to be really involved in in that kind of work, but I realized that I just really enjoyed the the game of it in a way, which is just like we're all working together to solve this problem. It's not really about the money, it's actually um, it's not about being, you know, this uh this huge success. It's really about like I really love helping homeowners and I really believe that there is um this this problem that we need to solve. And so that's kind of what motivates me. So I think I when I look back, I I'm proud on the fact that I'm just actually doing it and I can, you know, um, hopefully it will, it'll last me for the next, you know, 10 years, 20 years.

SPEAKER_01 40:38

So well, I guess next question, then what is your next dream? I mean, outside of obviously building an ADU into every house is yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:46

It's you know, it's such a great question. I but I do believe I would love to have more of a, I like to say like a creative chapter when I'm older, just doing something, you know, more creative in terms of writing or or even like filmmaking or something like really outside of that, just because I I do think that I do have a creative side to me that is like not as expressed right now, but I I think I'm able to use my like um my skills in creative ways. So I do hope to eventually be able to have some kind of creative time. Uh I do hope to go to back to my PhD hopefully in the next five years, even if it's in a part-time capacity. I just want to feel like resume it's a little bit more stable and we have the kind of like we have a good like pipeline for for our team. So I would say those two things and then we'll see from there. So uh that's already pretty good. Yeah, I for me I I'm very flexible. So I'm like, I don't have hard timelines, but I noticed eventually like I'd like to do some more creative stuff.

SPEAKER_01 41:39

Oh, that's good. I like that. I like how you just you know, you you know that there's so many skills that you have and that some are like more like in the dormant mode and some are more like you're you're fully expressing them right now. And you know, we've talked about so many different things as well, and I think it's it's good to see that like you know, it's not because you're you're a PM that you can be creative, or it's not because you're creative that you can be good at at mass or at number, and it's not because you're like very like you know, driven and academically good that you can't like build a business like that. Sometimes I think it's easy in our society to just oppose all these things and just put like people A in box A and people B in box B and and all that, but like you can just have a little bit of everything and try a little bit of everything, and there's different stages of your career where like some of the stuff will be more or less important.

SPEAKER_00 42:24

Yeah, I think it's a great point because like you just said, it's like I think a lot of women might think, I'm not good at math and science, because that's like I think a common trope. I don't think it's true, but I think it's like and I know that like there's a lot of research that shows that women get weeded out of STEM, you know, early on because they don't see themselves in it as much, and which is a lot of work that Noora is doing, um, who yes, I do know. And um she's doing great work in that space. And so I think sometimes it is about like painting other pictures for for women or like you know, seeing maybe, yeah, it's not your strongest skill set, or like you didn't, you know, go I didn't continue on in math past high school. Um but I took, for example, a real estate investing course just so I could understand like the basics. And it's like sometimes still I'm like, what okay, I have to go back and like remember. But again, that's what's the important of having good colleagues because I can be like, hey, what do you think about these numbers? Am I thinking about this correctly? What am I missing here? And and then I can then get that feedback. And so I think it's just kind of believing in yourself that you can just figure it out and you'll rise to the occasion in those moments. Love that.

SPEAKER_01 43:24

So, what would be the advice that you would give to a young woman that's with considering a carer in constriction?

SPEAKER_00 43:29

Yeah, I would say people's soft skills are really important and people underestimate the value of those. It's not always the the case, but a lot of times because the construction industry, especially on a job site like uh like even just home building and residential, you're working with people. As much as we want to say that like AI is is taking some workload off in terms of administrative tasks, tasks, and things like that, um, there's still a huge role for people skills, communication. In fact, I've said to my daughter, I'm like, I think the most important thing that you can learn is how to talk to people, how to um, you know, manage people, how to I she I've taught her how to negotiate, how to make arguments and really all those things because I'm like all of the hard skills are probably gonna get automated out in terms of some of the even like actual, I would say, you know, math and science work. And I won't we don't need to go down that path, but I think really thinking of yourself that way of like the the relational aspects of of things is very important. So yeah, so the the advice that I give to my daughter, I make her order at all the restaurants. I make her, she's not allowed to bring her, you know, her screens and we we talk, she has to talk to people. Um, and I know she's she's 10, so um, but I hope that she will get into a career that is in maybe this industry if she wants to, and she will know that like she can use her skills to be able to work with other people and advance schools and really being able to understand those that connection, I think is super important.

SPEAKER_01 44:54

Yeah, I think it's uh it's funny because it reminds me when I was a kid, my mom like I was pretty good in math and science, so I think it was kind of like oh you'll be an engineer anyway. But my mom was like, if you're gonna be an engineer, then you need to know how to communicate because so many engineers that don't know how to do it, so you that needs to be important to you. So it reminds me of what you're telling your daughter. Exactly. Yeah. If you had the chance to listen to anyone else on this podcast after your episode, who would you choose?

SPEAKER_00 45:18

Oh, um, so uh Rachel Cohen Mearison. She is actually an architect by trade, uh, but she uh is currently working as a project manager for the company Promise Robotics. And we connected like five years ago, like or so, and we were both part of the housing supply challenge. Promise Robotics is doing really interesting work in the AI robotics home building space where they're actually building large portions of homes off-site, but using AI and robotics. And uh, they were actually the housing supply challenge winner, which fully deserved what the work that they're doing is really neat. And so, um, but she kind of is on the ground integrating a lot of those systems to make it happen. And I find what she's doing super interesting. So she would be great to interview next.

SPEAKER_01 45:59

Yeah, that sounds really interesting. Thank you. Um, and then to end the podcast, what is the one song that makes you feel powerful?

SPEAKER_00 46:06

Yeah, I I was in preparation for this. I listened to it this morning, and um, it's it's kind of cheesy, but it it always puts me in like a good mood. The song Unwritten by Natasha Beddingfield, and I feel like that song is just like a good pump-up song. Actually, I recently saw a reel of it was the University of Michigan's basketball team. They just won the and they were they were they just won the uh March Madness and and they were um tournament and they were warming up to that song, and I was getting I was like getting so into it because I'm like, yeah, when you're warming up to that song, it just like gets you going. Um I probably have a bunch more, but that one is the one that came to mind.

SPEAKER_01 46:42

Well, Sarah thank you so much for sharing your story. You know, it's funny. At the end, usually I say a few words, and and I was as I was thinking and as as I was listening to you, I'm like, there's so many different things to say about you, and there's so many different skills and different like directions you're going towards, but somehow, like despite like all the directions, different directions you're going toward, it seems that you're very centered and very, very, you know, focused and you're going there. And I'm very inspired by all the story you shared today. So thank you for sharing your story, and I wish you all the best.

SPEAKER_00 47:13

Thank you so much. I'm glad to share it. And if anyone wants to reach out, they are welcome to do so. Thank you, Sarah.

SPEAKER_01 47:23

Thank you for listening to this podcast. If you enjoyed this podcast, would love for you to subscribe and give us a five-star rating on your preferred podcast platform. Your support will help us expand our community and bring more incredible stories to you. You can also join our growing community on Instagram at building underscore you underscore story and on LinkedIn at the Building Your Story page. Together, we can inspire change. Together, we can share amazing stories. Building your story, one episode at a time.