Kicking The Door Down
Dedicated to supporting saleswomen within Industry, the good, the bad and the down right scary!
Kicking The Door Down
Kicking the Door Down with Chrissie Knapp
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Kicking the Door Down with Chrissie Knapp: bullying, boundaries, confidence and finding your voice
This week on Kicking the Door Down, I’m joined by Chrissie Knapp — a brilliant woman many of you in health and safety will already know from HSM and the wider events and publishing world. But in this episode, we go beyond the shows, the magazine and the industry reputation, and talk about Chrissie.
What I loved about this conversation is that it gets right underneath the surface of confidence. Because when people see Chrissie now, they see someone calm, capable, connected and brilliantly good at what she does. What they don’t necessarily see is the journey it took to get there.
We talk about bullying at school, how those early experiences shaped her, and how she went from being a quiet, withdrawn teenager to someone who can walk into any room, hold her own, build relationships and command a stage. We talk about confidence, boundaries, the art of reading people, and the way women so often have to assess situations in real time — especially in male-dominated spaces.
We also get into careers, publishing, the health and safety industry, networking, relationship-building, and the brilliant work Chrissie is doing to create more visibility for women through the Women in Safety and Health Awards.
This is a conversation about finding your voice, building resilience, learning where your boundaries are, and becoming the version of yourself that younger you probably never imagined was possible.
In this episode, we cover:
- Chrissie’s experience of bullying and isolation at school
- How confidence is built, not born
- Why boundaries matter — in work, life and male-dominated environments
- Going from a shy teenager to a confident industry figure
- The power of relationship-building and human connection
- Women in health and safety and why visibility matters
- The story behind the Women in Safety and Health Awards
A really honest conversation with one of the best people in the industry — and proof that the person people see now is often the result of a battle they never knew happened.
Kicking The Door Down
Hi and welcome to Kicking the Door Down. And today I'm kicking the door down with a very good friend of mine, Chrissy Nat. And some of you that listen to this may have seen Chrissy around at the show. But today we're going to talk about Chrissy. So, Chrissy, welcome to the show. How are you? How are you?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, good, thank you. Excited to be here and have a chat. We've been talking about doing this for a long time.
SPEAKER_03I have been really looking forward to this, and we have been planning it for a long time. You're absolutely correct. So Chrissy, Chrissy, I want to dive straight in because you mentioned it there just before on the recording. Many people will look at you and think, Chrissy's so confident, she works for publishers, you have built the HSM reputation throughout the whole of the UK. And that is the health and safety magazine that goes out for all the health and safety manufacturers.
SPEAKER_00You look at you and go and go, Oh my god, you are so confident. But you weren't born that way that way. No. No, no, no, not at all. And I think a lot of us aren't born that way. Um, I I was the kid at secondary school that got bullied. I was the kid that had no friends, and I'd spend the whole day at school not saying one word to another soul because I was so scared of saying the wrong thing, and then it would come back, and there would be more bullying or comments or little tittle tattles as you walk down the corridor that I'd just become this very, very quiet, timid, inward person when I was around other people, um, which is very different from the crazy you see today. It it is, but I would I I can't imagine you being. I guess was you shy at school? I I was never overly shy, you know, primary school activities, all that kind of stuff, quite bubbly and things, but I think one of the problems is I went to an all-girls school. Um and all girls' schools can be really bitchy. Um, and a number of my friends nowadays, you know, their their daughters are at all girls' schools, and they see similar things, and I think it is a culture thing. I also think it it's kind of keeping up and wanting to be part of the in-crowd. Um, and unfortunately, that never just fitted with me. I I couldn't wait to get out of school. You know, it I felt like I was on countdown until GCSEs were done and I could be out of there. Yeah. And do you know bullies?
SPEAKER_03I wonder if those were saying bullies now look back and remember the what they did. Or do you think they just they just don't think they're probably not.
SPEAKER_00I mean, I d I do wonder if they even realised how hurtful some of the words were that were said and some of the actions, you know, because i it it's giggles and it's fun, and you know, it it's that person being brave within their group picking on the outsider. They probably don't realise the impact that that can and does have. It's hard to it's hard to imagine knowing the Chrissy I know today going through that situation.
SPEAKER_03It can't it makes me feel really defensive on your behalf. But those kids just they often don't think about it, but sometimes it can be quite targeted.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and you know, I'd I I was in the top sets and one of the more clever people at my at my school, and again, that drew bullying because, you know, I I was one of the more clever ones, and again, that would so then you'd sit and not put your hand up or not interact in lessons because you don't want to be picked on for being the brain box or the brainy one or the geek.
SPEAKER_03It's crazy, isn't it? When today we want everybody to be their authentic selves and we're trying to champion women um it actually comes to a case where you're you're you're feeling that isolated like you don't want to put yourself forward forward.
SPEAKER_00No, no, and you know, it school school for me when I look back at it now, unfortunately it wasn't a happy time. Um but you know it's it's made me the person I am now, and I do appreciate bullying and what happened, you know, and and I can sympathize, but I've grown an awful lot from that. Yeah. Do you think the teachers knew about it? I d I think the majority of them did. Um, but I think again, one of the problems of an all-girls school is there is so much bullying. How how do you deal with it? Yeah, yeah. See, I never had experience of an all-girls school.
SPEAKER_03There was bullying in the mid school I was in. But I can't comment from an all-girl school. But I can imagine you get ten times the Queen Bee situation.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And and don't get me wrong, I I imagine school nowadays because you know as a community we all have our eyes more wider open to these kind of things and and things going on. But you know, back back then it just kind of happened and was allowed to happen, really. What do you think you did in yourself to try and break away that? Um I I was very lucky. I I rode horses and things, so I had interests outside of school that kept me happy and doing, you know, and had a great family life and upbringing. Um but for me, I knew when I left school I didn't want to stay on for A levels because I didn't want to be in that place. I didn't want to go to a local college with anybody that I knew. I wanted to go and do something a million miles away from everybody within that school. Wow. So do you think there was a direct direct to the way you felt to not continuing higher education? Uh possibly. So I I went down the route. Um I went to uh college in Islington at the age of 16, going in and out of London every day, and I went and trained to be a dispensing optician. Completely out of left field because partly, you know, because I wanted to step away from everything at school, but I did actually have a really keen interest in that at the time. Um, and I was, you know, really committed to it. But going to college in in the middle of London, dealing with, you know, going in and out every day, what an eye-opener, you know. I was in classes with people of every colour, every religion. You know, there was foreign students there as well. So you, you know, I was there with people whose first language wasn't necessarily English, you know. I remember there being a lot of Greeks there. Um, so it was such an eye-opener to this big wide world that was absolutely poles apart from the time that I'd had at secondary school.
SPEAKER_03Actually, that sounds very intimidating. It must have been very exciting.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you know, I I didn't know much about other religions, you know, and it to learn those kind of things and different cultures as well as learning a career was so eye-opening um that it just made me realise that the world is actually a very big place and there is so much more um than having been bullied at secondary school. Absolutely. How long was you there for? So it it was a two-year course, so I had two years of commuting in and out of London, um, which again, you know, age of 16, that's that's a lot. Um, but I really grew from that and I loved every moment of it.
SPEAKER_03Well, yeah, there's a whole lot of responsibility involved with getting yourself in and out of uh uh let's face it, the capital city.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, an an awful lot, as well as studying and lessons and you know everything else that goes with it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um so it it I felt like I'd kind of grown up almost overnight. Was you still you were riding as well as you had the horses or was that later? So I'd I just you know rode friends, horses, and things because and I still have them today and I still call it my bubble of escapism. Yeah, and that is my switch off from the world, switch off from everything else because you're focused on that, and I truly believe everybody needs a bubble of escapism, whatever it is, if it's playing an instrument, walking dogs, you know, everybody needs a hobby that takes them away from day-to-day life. And I've been fortunate to always have that over the years, which I think has really helped actually.
SPEAKER_03I I would agree with that, and it comes back to a conversation I had with um Vince the other week who um back-to-act launched uh releases podcast, actually. But we talked about having that interest and we talked about having responsibilities at a younger level in life and how that helps to mentor work ethic because I have to say, Cissy, your work ethic is just incredible.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I think you know, that that side has always made me very organized, very driven, very methodical, um, having that responsibility, you know, having to go and do that, you know, we're on the hottest day of the year today, and there I was riding at six o'clock this morning to get done before the heat, you know. So it's that, you know, that side of me has given me a really, really good work ethic, but you know, it also keeps me organized.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You know, you know, there are you know, a number of things that have to be done in the day, X, Y, and Z, you know, and and I I love it.
SPEAKER_03You are very driven. And I think just talking to you there, whilst it must have been horrible at school, it it kind of shoved you in a different direction where you learnt a lot of stuff from.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, an awful lot of stuff. Um, so I I I did the college thing in London and I went and got a job in an opticians, um, which was the career I thought I always always wanted. And I think unfortunately, you know, when when we're at school, it's hard to know what you want to do later in life or where you want to go, and you're being pushed to make a decision on you know your options in year nine. Who knows what they want to do with do with life in year nine? You know, it who knows what you know, just out of interest, Chrissy, what did they say at school?
SPEAKER_03You know, and did you have a career advisor?
SPEAKER_00Not that they're generally worth anything. Did you and what had no idea what a dispensing optician was.
SPEAKER_03No. Yep. Okay, okay. And then I guess I guess I guess because mine tried to shovel down the um cook, you know, cookery, child education route, that sort of stuff.
SPEAKER_00I'm a bit older. We we've both ended up so far away from from you know from that.
SPEAKER_03It's so funny where we went up. We were just chuckling about that. But I just wondered from school, you know, they're not gonna know like you said, they're not gonna have a clue really what a what a dispensing person.
SPEAKER_00They're just no, no, no, no, we wouldn't wouldn't know. So I spent a few years in practice in an optician's meeting all sorts of people, you know, client-facing, talking to talking to everyday Joe Blocks, really, you know, um, dealing with your young screaming kids, all the way up to your 90-year-old OAPs who've come in on their walking frames and can barely hear you.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So it that in itself taught me some amazing skills in how to communicate to people, and you can't be shy and retiring when you're in that kind of role, because you also kind of have to get quite close to people, you know, you're fitting glasses and doing things. Um, so it it taught me that actually I can talk to people, I can talk to anybody, you know, you can strike up a conversation, you can have a laugh, you know. I'd I'd like Pop Saints in my luggage, and I'd be getting stopped by little old ladies in there, you know, and they'd be waving their glasses at me, you know. So again, another thing that taught me an awful lot, and you know, you don't have to hide in your little bubble, really.
SPEAKER_03You haven't, you can have the bubble, but you haven't got to stay in it. You haven't so I mean but you did say there is a period of time where you went to land the mile meeters, well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so um I kind of thought there's more to the world than being stuck in a little optician's for the rest of my life.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So I spent a couple of years uh on the road sales repping, selling glasses to opticians. Oh, you went external as well? Yeah, I went external. Because I'd had a series of really bad sales reps through the door, and I thought, do you know what? I can do better than this. Yep. You know, I know what I'm talking about, these people don't. So I went and got a job doing that for a few years. Um and great at that. I clocked up some mileage doing that. Yeah. Um, a lot of mileage. Um, and then I somehow, I don't even really know how, I ended up in a job working on a fruit and vegetable magazine in London. Um, and I would often find myself on the fruit and veg markets in London at four in the morning.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, literally as the only female, um, selling selling to the wholesale market companies, which, you know, were a hundred percent men, I would be the only only female there. And if anyone's ever been to a wholesale fruit and veg market, it's an eye opener. I've never been an eye opener. I wasn't, yeah, it's just it's a little bit like you see on tell. It it's it's big, it's buzzy, there's a lot going on.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um it's a massive world, it's a massive operation, what they get up to and what they do.
SPEAKER_03Did you think it helped being a um the only female or was it a hindrance?
SPEAKER_00What's what's your thoughts? Um I I I think you know that this you know is a conversation we have regularly. Yes, I think it did help being a female. There is an element of using using that to your own advantage at times. You know, and we have you know, we've all played that card many a time. Um, you know, being the only female and you know, using that attention, be that right or wrong, but I did learn an awful lot in the art of negotiation and bantering and conversation and chat from being on those wholesale markets in the mornings.
SPEAKER_03Do you think you had learnt from an early age there how to navigate those type of conversations? Because you've got very strong boundaries. Um not everyone is able to master them as you've had.
SPEAKER_00So I do you think that helped? I think that is being there is probably where where I put a lot of my boundaries in place.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, but again, you know, it it's another example of finding finding your voice, you know, and and stepping into that person that's like, I can do this, I'm gonna do it. Here's my big, brave, confident front. Um, you know, I am hiding behind my magazine and my brand, but here's my big, brave, confident front. Um, and it it did wonders for my own self-development, you know, having come from the shy, shy person to be able to go and you know walk around these markets and do this kind of thing. It it it was an interesting place.
SPEAKER_03I would love to have been in that environment, just to have a look. Um and I think people talk about people try and pigeonhole men or women in it. Everyone is the same. Um, but actually we're not physically, we're not, mentally, we're not, um women are able to navigate situations differently to a man and man to a woman. So you know, essentially you played to that skill skill set. And that's absolutely fine, that's what you did. And it worked, but you also learnt your boundaries as well. And that is something people still talk about that they can't do, you know, depending on all through their life sometimes.
SPEAKER_00I think I think having clear boundaries of where you will go, yeah, I mean, you know, is very is is key. You you've got to know what you're comfortable with and and what you're not comfortable with. Um, you know, and a number of years ago I I found myself, you know, having split up from my husband and and back in the dating game, and you know, I was I was on the online dating dating sites and you know, and striking up conversations with complete strangers and meeting complete strangers, and having boundaries for that, you know, is I think really key. But I found that quite strange in itself because I'm used to going and meeting and chatting to people and you know, I'm Chrissy and this is HSM, and I'm almost hiding behind my brand. Yet when we look at going dating, it's putting yourself out there, not hiding behind a brand, it's being vulnerable. Um, and for me that should have been really easy, but I found that quite difficult because you know, I've got my normal chat, my normal conversation, but all of a sudden you're putting yourself out there, so that's a whole different set of boundaries and what I was and wasn't comfortable with. Um so that's a whole other dynamic of confidence, really.
SPEAKER_03That's really interesting when you put it like that. I've never thought about that. And there are two types, and I wonder if often they get judged by accident, and that's where people make mistakes. So I wonder if that's where it is, but you know, I think from a sales point of view, it's it's it you you have to learn to um um judge judge what somebody's saying to you. You have to learn where the boundaries are. You have to learn the difference between having phone banter and it's not banter anymore. There's all those and that can differ, can't it, depending on the person you're speaking to. So all the time as a woman, you're having to assess that situation. It's it's literally assessing life dependent on who you're talking to.
SPEAKER_00A hundred percent. And I think it also, you know, the environment that we're in, you know, as you and I know, we've been to many work events of an evening, you know, where there is, let's call it unwanted attention. Yeah. Um, but I know exactly what those boundaries are, you know, and I just walk away from those situations, you know, and I always make a point, you know, if I'm with my colleagues, if there's females in our group when we're at a work event, because I know what they can get like, and I think we all know what they can get like, I always have half an eye on everybody, you know, because situations can change, you know, people can get overconfident, you know, with a bit of drink inside them. Um and those boundaries shouldn't be compromised at those types of events because everybody's, you know, away. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And for years they have done in the past, haven't they?
SPEAKER_03I think things are changing now. There's a lot more groups that are doing that and keeping half an eye on it, and there's a lot more people talking about it now.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I don't think it is as socially acceptable as it was 10, 15 years ago, where you know, people felt like it was acceptable and it is what happened at these kind of events, it's not acceptable anymore, and I don't see it as much as I used to.
SPEAKER_03No, no, you there is a definite change in fact to the point where when you do notice it, that it's it's a bit of a shock of a shock actually. And people talk about it more and it's a bit like did you see that? It actually is much more noticeable. Um and I think it's giving room for the male allies to actually talk about it as well. Whereas before that, even they would feel often a little bit awkward about race for fear themselves have been ridiculed.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and and I know a few occasions recently, you know, that has happened, and I know a few males that have raised the point with other colleagues, you know, that person's boss, those kind of things, you know, um, and it is becoming more or more and more unacceptable, as it should be.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, yeah, as it should be.
SPEAKER_00But also this, you know, it's not always the men as well as well. No, no, it's not always the men, you know. I've seen many a drunk female on on a dance floor at an awards ceremony that you know has probably drunk too much. Um so you know, it let's not pigeonhole all men in this category. You know, it it does happen both ways. Um and I think, you know, I think everyone the world the world's different to what it was, and it is certainly no longer acceptable.
SPEAKER_03So I can see why then then I don't I don't I don't need to ask the question about going from the flower flower magazine to was it did
SPEAKER_00You go straight into safety or no, I I got uh a series of different roles working at different publishing houses on different events. Um, what have I worked on? I've worked on um some garden centre stuff, some houseware stuff, um, some industrial things, um, I worked on some chemical stuff where I got to travel all over the world. Um, so I've worked on very varied things within the world of publishing. Um, and it's interesting when you look at all those industries, they are they all act very, very differently. You know, the world of garden centres and the world of housewares, for example, it's very different to the world of health and safety. Quite very different.
SPEAKER_03No wonder when when you know, talking about just switching to work a little bit. No wonder when I talk about it. You know a lot about the voice of the customer, you know a lot about that journey and the customer perception because you must have learnt so much about what is perceived in the eye of the end user.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I think also, you know, working for several different publishers over the years and looking at different attitudes and how publications and media work within specific markets and what works for one market opposed to another market, that's interesting as well. Um, but similarly working for different, you know, companies over the years, you get to know also how you like to be managed. You know, I've had a lot of different managers and bosses over the years, um, and some have been amazing and some have been awful. You know, there there are some that I probably still have PTSD from. Um unfortunately, you know, that is the world of being employed, you know, we can't always pick our bosses. Um but you know, I I I've learned how I like to work, and I'm very lucky, you know, the guys at Western's, you know, they let me work from home and get on and do and implement my own ideas and drive the portfolio how I want to and how I see it. Um and that that comes from working with them for a num quite a few years, um, and trust. Definitely trust. And I can say that from a client perspective because when did I meet you?
SPEAKER_03Is it seven, eight years ago? Maybe even longer.
SPEAKER_00Do you know what? I actually um so we met at one of our awards ceremonies. We were sat on the same table, um, and I I actually found the um awards guide the other day, um, and it was 2019.
SPEAKER_01I remember that.
SPEAKER_00I remember that. Do you remember sitting at the table?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00What a lot of fun. What a lot of fun. You know, brilliant. But I wonder if you look back, do you ever look back?
SPEAKER_03Here's the question Do you ever look back at school and think if only you could see me now?
SPEAKER_00I have thought that in the past, actually, you know, and I have thought if you could see where I've come from and where I am now, um I would never have imagined me back then, I would never have imagined where I am now. Um and I think you know, when you're at school, it's hard to see where you're you'll end up. Um but I never ever imagined that I'd be working in the world of health and safety, which a lot of people think is really boring, but I love it. It's it's a lovely, lovely world to work within. Um that's why we're here, you know. Um it's hilarious, it's a good industry, there's lots going on. Um, and you know, I I've made some really good friends over the years from this industry.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. Well it's it's it spans everything because it's not like you said we said prior to us coming on and on, this is a week before the the Coventry show and the uh safety awards and obviously you're on full full execution mode at the moment to get that sorted out. But it's also the fire show the next day, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00So it's not just it's a busy week, you know, it's a busy week for us um as a portfolio and and as a business, really. Um, but we have this lovely formula of you know, one day tabletop conference um and then our annual awards celebrating the great and good within health and safety running running later that evening. Um so anybody and everybody within the industry's there. So for me, I get to see all of my clients and friends, because you know, most of my clients are friends now, I get to see everybody all in one place, you know. It's I d I spend like the whole week literally on such a high because I just get to see everybody and catch up. It's lovely.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I and I I wonder, in fact, if I put a wager on it, I'd lose but I wonder how many how many people in that room that we know. You must know everyone.
SPEAKER_00Most uh most manufacturers, distributors, marketing people, yeah, associations, yeah, yeah, but I'd probably know most often. But the interesting thing is having you know worked in an industry for so long, you see people come and go, but pop up at another company, so you can exactly like you did. Um so you can pick up the relationship that you had previously, um, and that's really nice as well.
SPEAKER_03Do you know it is because it's not uh well for me anyway, and I'm sure for others as well, it's not just a relationship because even prior to me when I dropped out of the industry for a bit, we still kept in touch and and that says a lot about the trust that you build up with people.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, that it says a lot about that, you know. And I have some of my clients that are on my social media, you know, and uh again, talking of boundaries, I am very picky and choosy about who I allow onto my social media. Um but I think there's something nice about that, getting to know each other, you know. So it's not a sales pitch and you know, it's uh how are you, how's the family, how's the kids? You know, that to me is the best way of communicating and working with someone than oh hello, would you like to, you know, book some advertising or would you like to sponsor something or come to one of our events? I much prefer getting to know clients. Is that something do you think you've learned or is that is that Chris? Is that the inner chrysos? I think it's a bit of both. Yeah. I think I've learned that and that has become my style. And my style is to get to know people and you know, what makes them tick and what they like, and you know, it's I think it makes it so much more personable um rather than you know just hiding behind an email or or something. You know, the fact that you can pick the phone up and just have a nice conversation, I think says an awful lot.
SPEAKER_03I agree with you, and I think in the world that is turning towards AI more and more, even for conversations, the art of relationship building and is starting to get affected a bit that I'm seeing with new salespeople coming in. And I think I think we really we need to get back to that relationship building.
SPEAKER_00And I think I see it, people are afraid to either pick the telephone up or nine times out of ten trying to get someone to answer their telephone, they'd much rather hide behind an email or a WhatsApp. And I I just think you know, let's let's have a conversation. You know, we can learn so much more about each other's, you know, wants and needs that we can then find the right solution.
SPEAKER_03I am gonna draw a conclusion to say the time that you spent learning in when you went into London and then into the markets, into the publishers' world trials. That's where you learn to read people's body language as well and their tone of voice. And that is something you can't see in an email or what.
SPEAKER_00No, no, no, not not at all, you know, and and I think there is so much to be said for that. And I think unfortunately it's a skill that some of the younger generation don't have today because they are hiding behind their phones a lot of the time.
SPEAKER_03I agree, and I think that's attributing to a lot of the mental health issues as well because they just can't or they just struggle to navigate that emotional connection that you have with somebody that you can read from body language or tone of voice. But if it's not there, there's a whole part of that communication that's missing.
SPEAKER_00I I completely agree. You know, I'd much rather have a conversation with someone because you you understand what's going on so much better. And I think the tone from, let's say, a WhatsApp, the way it's written and the way it's read and interpreted are to often two totally different things. Totally.
SPEAKER_03And do not often as well what's goes towards that skill that you've learned and developed is the sensitivity that you would have gained from the trauma-and let's face it, the traumatic time you would have had at school because we do become more sensitive, and not sensitive that you're taking it to heart more, but sensitive that you can can feel those shifts in the conversation.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and you know, I think you know, as as horrible as it was at the time, having gone through that, that's made me who I am. You know, that's made me really determined to be this bubbly, confident, you know. I will stand on stage and present to five, six, seven, eight hundred people, and you know what? I I don't actually bat an eyelid about it. And I know a lot of people really struggle with that, but I think that just goes to show how far I've come from that shy person that couldn't even put her hand up in a lesson and answer a question in case I got bullied to actually standing up in front of everybody now. You know, I have no problem doing that, you know. It it I I'm lucky that I've overcome that. Do I have to tell you and I don't think I've ever told you this before, but I'm really proud of you. Oh dear. Really proud of you.
SPEAKER_02Um really honoured you're in my network of friends, if you like.
SPEAKER_00I love it. I love our network of friends. They're brilliant, aren't they? I like the lucky dolls.
SPEAKER_04I love dolls so much.
SPEAKER_03But I am been through a lot, and I know no, you're not diving into all of it, and I think people can always put two and two together. But but it it to go through that and then come out now, we're all still on a learner curve, aren't we? Regardless.
SPEAKER_00Exactly, you know, and you know, who's to say where we'll be in five, ten years' time and you know, what else I've learnt along the way and where my boundaries are, and you know, but I think that's what we do as we grow as humans.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Well they change, don't they? Yeah. They ch everything changes, and and they change depending on who you're with. That that can change as well. So, you know, th things go on, and you've got more to come as well. And I and I well just just so everyone knows, there is a beautiful doggo in the background. Oh, is it? Have you got one or two?
SPEAKER_00Uh I've I've I've got both of them, both of my uh ginger labradors laying in here on my feet today. They're attached to the hip, aren't they? Very much so, you know, and we we talk about you know the bubble of escapism. They are just brilliant companions during the day, you know, and you know, one of them, Ruby, you know, if if she's not had a fuss for an hour, she comes and nudges my elbow and checks in with me. And she's like, Mum, are you alright? Can I have a fuss? Are you okay? And again, you know, everybody needs that little check-in every now and again, be it another human or an animal, everybody needs it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, everyone needs it. It's so true. And I and I remember part of this journey. Do they come out on the horses?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, they they come to the horses. Um you look you often see them on my LinkedIn actually. Yeah, if I put a post up with a dog in it, uh the interaction goes through the roof. I always press like when I see the dog almost other things. They are commonly termed as the HSM dogs because they are part of the team, really. They are a part of the team because they know when you're sad as well. Yeah, you know, and and we all need that if we're having a tough day. Um, not that I advocate everybody going and getting a dog, you know, dogs up for Christmas and all, but for me, that's part of me and who I am, and the amount of people that come up to me at shows and say, Oh, I saw your dogs on LinkedIn, how are they?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. It's true though. I think I get much more interaction when I put a picture of Leo on. I put one up recently with a dia. He's a Dia.
SPEAKER_00And that was it. She's got loads of comments. I I think it also breaks up um some of the stuff that goes on LinkedIn, just seeing something pop up that's different.
SPEAKER_03Oh, and you all know about this from from your your your work, your career, and and just being you, you're you're exactly hit the nail on the head. LinkedIn has become a little bit of a kind of a Facebook really in some respects, but but for products, it's just products are it's boring. Yeah, I want you to change it.
SPEAKER_00It is a bit boring. So um I have lots of social media planned for the next week or so as we have um events and awards and things. Um I will try and get uh selfie with Catherine Ryan at the awards next week. Um so so watch out for that one. Do it, do it. It's gonna be cold. It's gonna be great, you know. It's a great evening, you know, we've got great entertainment. I'm sure we will all be on the bumper cars, um, slightly inebriated for drunk driving. Um this is gonna go back now, and everyone's gonna know there's bumper cars. Bumper cars. Well, you know, um let's see everybody there next year.
SPEAKER_03Oh my life, this is gonna be brilliant. So for this week, the life of you is full on doing the coventry boards, but I know that's not true because you're probably already planning some of the other events as well that are going on, just juggling.
SPEAKER_00Juggling, juggling, and it's great to have so many things to juggle. Yeah, um, it keeps me on my toes. Um, obviously, I'm gonna touch on it, it's probably a whole other conversation. We have just launched some women in health and safety awards that will run in um October. Um, and entries are open now and they are free. There you go. There's there's my tiny little plug.
SPEAKER_03Well, do you know we talked about this just so everyone everyone will know this because I'm gonna blurt it out. So we did do we do Chrissy? Do we do the Wish Awards? And we're like, well, actually, I want to know about Chrissy. But you did you are actually the brain child behind the Wish Awards, which was not it didn't just get launched. You've been thinking about this and planning this for oh, I don't know, a good 18 months, two years, if not long.
SPEAKER_00It's it's been on it's been bubbling away in the background for a while. Um, that within the world of health and safety, there isn't really anything that brings the the community of women together, celebrating the great and the good. Um, because although it is a heavily male-dominated industry, the tide is starting to turn. It is, it is turning, and you know, I I can see that, you know, the last 15 years it has changed a lot. We are starting to see some really great female leaders and advocates and voices. Um so timed with some work on our sister Fire magazine, we have launched the Women in Safety and Health, commonly called awards, um to celebrate, to celebrate the great things that women are up to, and it's completely free to enter.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, it's brilliant. It's it's such a great initiative.
SPEAKER_00And and I remember I spoke to you about it and you talked about the committee. I think you were probably the first person I spoke to about it because I was like Deb's the first first person I've got to speak to about this. There was no choice, I was knocking on your door.
SPEAKER_03In fact, I got a little tent and it was outside your house. Yeah, it was like over the foot. Me, me, me, me, me. Because it means so much, it's such a great thing, and you're right, the world is changing, but uh it needs that visibility. Yeah, and that publication is one of the best ways of doing it because it is. Oh, do you know what I'm doing in my house? Because my husband subscribed to it, so I don't need to, so it pops through the letterbox, I open it, I read it, even though no, I don't read any of a magazine.
SPEAKER_00I read that one.
SPEAKER_01Brilliant. So that's it all.
SPEAKER_00The thing is, you know, it's not just about awards, it's building a community. Yes. So there's social media, you know, we run interviews with female leaders in most issues of the magazine, um, podcasts, um, and we're doing some women's content at all of our conferences, which obviously you spoke uh leads one. Thank you very much. Oh, the funny thing was it was it was great, that was, wasn't it? It was it was brilliant. You wanted more time? Absolutely loved it. Um and bringing together, you know, a group of really great, inspiring women it was so awesome to just stand there and be a part of that and listen to what listen to the voices and listen to what people have got to say about what they're dealing with. It was. And do you know I didn't actually tell you this, but after that event I had if I if I can probably count.
SPEAKER_03There was more than more than four or five people that specifically sought me out to talk about what we talked about on the panel. Which is really, really good. Um mixture of guys and women. And in particular, there was two women that were from um Unite. So uh the Union Rets. And they came to talk about what was being discussed at the panel because this sort of stuff has not been talked about before. Yeah. So it's not just companies, it was actually influential bodies that specifically came to listen to that panel discussion. That is something you created.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that that do you know what, Debbie? I didn't know that. That's really powerful, and it it just proves that this little idea that we had however many months ago actually is is what's needed and is what was missing.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Because, you know, and I'm sorry, I should have told you that's my failing, but I I was buzzing after that. In fact, I just sort of floated home after that event. It was so cold, but it but it it ignited something else, not just in me, but obviously those people that were listening to it as well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So I'd I've had so many comments back from that panel session about how useful, how inspiring I could have sat and listened for another hour or two. We've had such amazing feedback on it. It's been great, that it's great, and we will look to do more and more of these things.
SPEAKER_03Definitely. Well, when I remember I remember sitting there, and it was a bit like the silent disco for that one because you just had the headsets on, didn't you? Um and actually what was really interesting was I looked out to the audience, and it was a big audience of people, but there was a great mixture of male and females. Yeah, completely different to when I thought back to maybe ten years before. Very different.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah, and and I think it it's something that's a big topic for a lot of people, a lot of companies, and a lot of associations. Um, that you know, that panel debate, it almost felt like the launch of what we're doing. I think I think I introduced you guys as you know, Avengers, let's assemble. Um because it did just feel like the beginning of something, something really great.
SPEAKER_03I was honoured to have been asked, and I was equally as honoured to have been on that first panel, um because I wear that with pride in my heart that I could help. But but it was also fun. And I would I would encourage anybody to sort of contact well no not sort of, I hate using that word. I would encourage anybody to contact you to ask to join in on this.
SPEAKER_00100% and there is always a conversation to be had with everybody about how they can get involved, what they can contribute, what we can do, you know, what you know, what what's got to be said, who's got something great to say. You know, we are always, always open to those conversations. And just pick the phone up and call me and let's have a chat, let's have a Natter, you know, best. Best thing to do.
SPEAKER_03I think there's one there's one strong thing that comes out and that is definitely you are sort of a relationship builder. And I encourage anybody just to pick up the phone to you because it will change their day. It will change their own. And obviously, just for everyone listening, we're not always having these serious conversations. Most of the times we just sit there laughing at something that's happened. Normally, normally.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I mean we you know, we do have a lot of serious conversations and great stuff comes out of it. But it's always good to just, you know, not always be a hundred percent serious. Well, life's too short for that.
SPEAKER_03Um for sure. But I just would encourage anybody within this industry, please reach out to Chrissy because also she's a phenomenal person at guiding for marketing um on the publishing and you know, and I'm giving a blate to the club now as well, because I've actually from a professional point of view, I've used Chrissy and the team for their webinars as well, which is incredible. Um but that was because it's guided by Chrissy and Kelly.
SPEAKER_00So uh if I tried to do it myself, it would be a mess. It would be a mess. So um Kelly is my fab editor. Um she is, you know, the other half of my double act. We do get called the Ant and Deck of the Health and Safety Industry. Not because we look like Ant and Deck, but because generally when you see one of us, the other one is there, and you if you see us apart, it's it's slightly odd. So we do generally come as a pair, most often causing trouble. Um, but we do generally come as a pair.
SPEAKER_03I love you two to bits, it's so funny. That is so true. I've never called you Anton Deck though. No, double trouble maybe. Yeah, definitely not Anton Deck, but it's you know, from from uh an absolute powerhouse of a team is how I would describe it. But for sure, this this the you know the wish um awards are gonna be wonderful and I think they're just gonna grow from strength to strength now.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and you know, these things take time to build. Um, you know, this year is our first year, but just think where we could be in five years' time. That's the exciting thing.
SPEAKER_03And I think over the years as well it's gonna build because you're gonna need uh more sponsors as it grows, you're gonna need more and it will prove itself and then people will come more people will come on board. Um my thing is it shouldn't need to prove itself. It's it says you know it does what it says on the tin. But from a corporate point of view, I know that's always a slower thing to push along.
SPEAKER_00It has to look after itself. But the proof in the pudding is the entries have so far, you know, in entries don't close till the end of July. So far, the number of entries has absolutely blown us away. Has it? Yeah. Are you allowed to say how many entrants you've had? Um I'm not totally up speed on the actual number, but last time I asked it was it was a lot bigger than I was expecting.
SPEAKER_03Oh my god. Well that means I'm not gonna win anything because I've entered, so I'm gonna go and burn the ballot boxes. That's what I'm gonna go and burn the ballot boxes. But that's the other thing, the entrance are open, so I'd I'd encourage um please, please, please nominate your colleagues, your friends that are in the industry because the awards are really they're really substantial awards when you read into them. Did you say there was nine or ten? Uh fourteen. Fourteen, but shit. Fourteen awards. Sorry, my brain's melted.
SPEAKER_00They're really in-depth, well thought, you know, there's quite specific criteria. There is um and there's a very select judging panel, and each category has its own judging panel, so it's different judges for each category. So um again, there's an awful lot of work that goes on in the background for these kind of things.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Oh, there is and but there is for filling it in as well. Because you can tell that by the questions that are asked. So for those that are going to um enter or nominate, um, there are specific questions that are asked that really make you think about it. But actually, it's quite enjoyable doing that exercise. It's quite therapeutic, and it's actually really validating for the work that you will have done towards these categories. So I try to do that. Whoever's created them questions, they're great, great questions.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and the beauty of the website is you can go in and out and edit your entry, you don't have to do it all in one go. So it it's quite easy, you can start it and come back to it. Um but if you're thinking about entering, all I would say is what you put on your entry is what goes in front of the judge. So the judge that entire entry is is what they get. So you know, just just think and be in depth and give them everything that they might possibly need to make your winner.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. I think it's wonderful. The more we can nominate each other, the better. And the more this will grow each time. Yeah. That's that is 100% sure. And I think we we have to start supporting each other. So that's why I like it. It's good for you. Right then, on that bombshell of the wish. I think we should let Chrissy go because I can hear those doggos getting uh they want probably want to get out and get it. It's about 30 degrees for everybody listening right now. We're all melting. So we are all melting. We are melting.
SPEAKER_00We have chosen the hottest day of the year to do this. That's my fault. Sorry about that, everyone.
SPEAKER_03So please I will put um Chrissy's details in the bio in the blog as normal. Um, but if you can't get hold of them, then please message me and I'll put you in touch with Chrissy for anyone listening. Um Chrissy, you've been an awesome guest on Kicking the Door Down today. Thank you for your vulnerability and your honesty.
SPEAKER_00Thank you very much. I thought I thought it was a good conversation to to be had.
SPEAKER_03Yes, I do too, and I am very proud of you.
SPEAKER_00So thank you. Perfect. Thank you.
SPEAKER_01Thank you.