Dialed Podcast 383 - PIR is Back, Paris-Roubaix Mayhem Recap, and We Argue About Race Prices

PIR is back, Banana Belt brought the bunch sprint, Mud Slinger brought the mud (and a couple of crashes), and a look back at how Paris-Roubaix delivered one of the most exciting races in years. The crew breaks down a wild week of racing, including Ian's lap-counting mishap that turned hero into zero in about 100 meters, Lance's road race tactics, and Wout van Aert finally getting his Roubaix win.

Then the conversation turns to the real economics of putting on a bike race: what it actually costs, why entry fees keep climbing, and whether grassroots events should chase a premium experience or stay no-frills. Ian shares why he's leaning toward passing Barton Park on after this year, and Matt makes the case for raising prices.

Plus: cycling bucket lists, the Lifetime Grand Prix at Sea Otter (and a huge ride from Dialed's own Kylie Hanel!).

Transcript

Intro: Shut up and sit down.

Intro: Hell yeah. Hell yeah. Hell 

Intro 2: yeah, Batman. Our bikes love us and we love them back. As we ride through the city, bike 

Intro: the 

Intro: cars like plaque. On 

Intro 2: the teeth of the 

Intro Lady: town, we just keep on singing. We're unstoppable. Oh, hell yeah. Unstoppable mamas. GNO. Unstoppable kids, yeah. 

Ian: Get your bike and go. Get your bike and go.

Ian: You are listening to 

Intro Lady: the Dialed podcast with Matt LeGrand- Sir Ian Gibson ... Lance Hepler, and Jake von Duering. One of the most important decisions you will make is to be in a good mood. For every minute you are angry, you lose 60 seconds of happiness. So crank it up and be happy, my friend When things are good, when things are hard.

Intro Lady: We ride 

Intro 2: together, we don't drive cars. But together we make such beautiful music. 

Intro Oh, hell yeah, brother. Yee, yee. 

Intro 2: Unstoppable mamas. GNO. We're unstoppable. Unstoppable kids, yeah. Get your bike and go. Get your bike and go. Unstoppable papas. We pedal and flow. Hell 

Intro: yeah. Hell yeah. You're doing it good, buddy. Great job.

Jake: Hi, welcome back to the Dialed podcast. I am Jake von Duering. I'm here with Lance frigging Heppler. Lance frigging Heppler. What's up, mother stretchers? 

Matt: In studio. 

Jake: Just 

Matt: in studio. Are you in studio for a while? 

Lance: I'm in studio for a while. Um, I'm going to California next week, but I don't know how long I'll be gone for.

Lance: Yeah, I'm around 

Jake: for 

Lance: a bit. All 

Jake: right. Yeah. Sweet. Hold on. Wait for it. Wait for it. There it is, the one and only Sir Ian Gibson. Yeah. 

Ian: Hello, 

Jake: you 

Ian: bloody 

Jake: wankers. Hey. Sir Wanks-a-lot. You bloody wankers. And last but least, the one and only Matt LeGrand. 

Matt: What's up, ladies and gentlemen of the internet? You guys look chipper.

Matt: Mm. You look chipper today. 

Drop: Who is he? He's an asshole, sir. You know that. What's his name? That is his name, sir. Asshole. Major Asshole. How many assholes we got on this ship anyhow? Four. Four. Four. Good, I'm surrounded by assholes. That's 

Jake: correct. Truth. 

Lance: Is that from Spaceballs? 

Matt: Mm-hmm. Yes, sir. You know they're ha- Is the second one coming out?

Matt: There's a second one coming out. 

Jake: Exactly. Nope, Brooks is making another one. I love 

Matt: it. Yeah. It's gonna be fun. 

Jake: Cool. All right, let's do some background. Matthew Grant. 

Matt: Uh, I've been running mostly. I biked indoors this weekend because my Achilles was flared up again, and that's no fun. But, uh, it, it, it was crazy to be biking indoors on a nice weather day.

Matt: Mm. But it was like I needed to get it done in the morning, and we needed to go to swim meets. Big surprise, there were swim meets Friday night, Saturday, and Sunday. So we were off in Portland- for most of the weekend, kinda right over by the, um, Portland Timber Stadium. 

Ian: Okay. 

Matt: So there's like The Mac. It's like the athletic club there.

Lance: Mm. Fancy. It's 

Matt: like fancy. 

Lance: In Goose Hollow. 

Matt: Yeah, and so- 

Lance: Fancy area of, old fancy area of Portland. 

Matt: We, um, we were there, and we were deep down in the basement where they hide the bodies. They also hide a 50-meter pool. 

Lance: Oh, 

Matt: wow. So, yeah. 

Jake: Cool. Sounds fun. 

Matt: Yep. Backpedal done. 

Jake: Sweet. 

Matt: Moving along. 

Jake: Gibbo. 

Ian: Um, I have two racing experiences to recount.

Ian: Have we got time? 

Jake: Just experiences, huh? 

Ian: Yeah. Positive? Yeah, so, well, one was positive. Um, Sunday we did a road race, which was super cool. Uh, the second experience I'm sort of hanging my head in shame a little bit. 

Jake: Rut ro. 

Ian: Yep. 

Jake: There 

Ian: you go. So, so yesterday was the, um, opening night of PIR. 

Jake: Oh, 

Ian: it's back. 

Jake: Um, 

Ian: yeah, yeah.

Ian: It, it was a great night. The weather was good. Um, they've got this new, um, chip timing system now that Kevin's, um, brought out, so, uh, we all have, um, dedicated numbers for the race series- Sure ... for Monday and Tuesday night PIR. Is it, 

Matt: is it an... Let me, I'm curious about this- Yep ... 'cause I'm curious about the technology.

Matt: It's RFID. Mm-hmm. I mean, I'm, I'm excited about, like, I kinda wanna, like, build something like this. Yeah. But, um, so do you wear a race number and you... Is it like cloth, or is it- No, 

Ian: yes, you have a cloth race number, uh- 

Matt: Does it have a sticker on the- No ... back of it? Okay. 

Ian: But you do, you get a, um, a race number to go on your bike as well.

Ian: It fits on your top tube, and that's got a, a chip in it. O- 

Matt: okay. Yeah. How does that look on the top of the, the tube? Is it like- 

Ian: Not on your top tube, on, on your seat post, 

Matt: sorry. Seat post. Yeah. It sits off ba- off the back? Off the back, 

Ian: yeah. Yeah. Is it 

Matt: like- Sounds a little bit pro, 

Jake: huh? 

Ian: Yeah. Kinda looks pro. A little bit pro, yeah.

Ian: I'm just gonna leave mine on for- Just for a- ... regular rides- ... for all 

Matt: training ... 

Ian: because it looks so pro. 

Matt: Did, did you zip tie it on? 

Ian: Yes. Zip tied. Zip tied on. 

Matt: I was expecting other thoughts, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Ah, respects. 

Ian: But then they 

Matt: also have a- I wanna see 

Ian: it. 

Matt: Do you guys have, do you guys have photos of it?

Ian: Yeah, I think so. I don't know. 

Matt: Okay. See- I'm just curious if you can see the RFID tag or if it's built into 

Ian: the 

Matt: number- 

Ian: So- ... on the back of your bike ... yes, you do, you can see it on the tag. They also have, like, this new, um, uh, lapped lap board, um, that's color-coordinated, so they have more than one... You know, they have more than one race- Mm-hmm

Ian: uh, out on the track at one time. That's pretty cool. So we went out with the, the one, two, threes open, and then within that there was also a 50-plus and a 60-plus field. So we were all, kind of had green numbers, and then the four, fives that left, uh, a few minutes after we did, departed a few minutes after, they had a different color.

Ian: And then as you went past the lap board, um, it could differentiate- Oh ... who you were with. Oh. So, so the, it was color-coordinated. How- however, a little bit smaller than I'm used to, and so I- We did like 13 laps and it- Did you get 

Jake: your readers out to see what's happening around you? Wait, 

Ian: you don't 

Matt: race with your readers in hand?

Matt: Lance, you did not race. 

Ian: Well, readers- You didn't race last night ... readers didn't do any good, but anyway, it was 13 laps. It was fast, like 27.5, 8, 28 miles an hour. Good. Something like that. Oh. Huge field, and then the last lap, I look over, one to go, and I thought I heard a bell. So I did my usual thing, like I was right at the back just tailgunning the whole race.

Ian: Mm-hmm. And then just at the, before you get onto the back straight, I just move right up, move right up. 

Jake: Sure. 

Ian: And I'm in like 10th slot thinking, "I'm looking great here. This is perfect." And there's, uh, Zach and a couple of other guys, and I thought there was a group of four or five up the road. And so I pull in behind these guys, um, Zach Koval- Kovalchick?

Ian: Yeah ... uh, um, and a couple of his teammates, and I'm thinking, "They're just kinda holding back because their teammates are up the road or something." Yeah. So anyway, I'm there, I'm there, I'm there. It looks like we, we're going for it. Pull onto the, pull onto the, um, finishing straight and I'm like, "Oh, shit, I'm right at the front."

Ian: So I'm like- Oh, no ... "Well, I just gotta go." And I sprinted my ass off, right? And I'm like, "Any second now, they're gonna come past me 'cause I'm, I'm an old man." 

EPO Chain Mail: You finished 

Ian: the race anyway. And I looked over and it's like, "What? Nobody's coming past me. What the hell?" And uh, sure enough, it was the, the lap before the last lap.

Ian: There 

Matt: you go. You went all the way through the line, then you hear them ring the bell? 

Ian: And then I... No, I'm getting like, I'm getting like 100 meters from the finish. I'm like, "This is all wrong. This is not right." Oh. This is 

Matt: not right. 

Ian: Oh, no. You could 

Matt: feel 

Ian: it. And so at least I didn't throw my arms up in the air like I won the race, you know?

Ian: Won. But I had burnt all my matches and, and, and sure enough, as the field came by, um, I, I just- Could you 

Lance: get back on? 

Ian: No, dude. 

Lance: Oh, dude. You couldn't catch them? Whoa. 

Ian: So I was dead last in- Oh, no. Oh, no. Yeah, that's a disaster. '

Lance: Cause I put... You know, I can- 

Ian: That happens. That happens ... I got one. I can do 1,000 watts once.

Lance: That's why we do practice races. Yeah. That's why, so you can make those mistakes- So- ... without too much consequence. 

Jake: So just to go 

Ian: back- Total count six, right? ... you 

Jake: saw, uh, one lap to go. Were you looking at the- 

Ian: I thought, I mean, I pretty much... That's what I thought 

Jake: So was it because it was too small? Ian. Was it the wrong color?

Jake: What was the deal? 

Lance: You're not supposed- 

Ian: Well, it was my fault. 

Lance: I mean- You're not supposed to race unless I'm there with you and I can say, "It's all right to go, Ian." Right. No, you- Did, 

Jake: did you get any video of this? 'Cause I, I bet- No, I didn't ... you're making a video series about what not to do in a race, right? I need to.

Jake: For, for your clients. I mean- 

Ian: Right ... totally 

Jake: makes sense. What 

Ian: not to do. Yeah. Ah. 

Jake: So. Anecdotal. That was kind of embarrassing. Events, 

Lance: what not to do. Hero to zero, just 

Ian: like that. Yeah. Yeah. Uh. 'Cause I was on a roll. I did well on Sunday. We did the Banana Belt Road Race. Let's 

Jake: roll right into that one now. 

Ian: All right.

Ian: Well, um, yeah, I won it. I wo- well, I won my, um, age group. Age. Which was all, like, five or six guys. I don't know how much, but I- 

Jake: Pretty good. I mean- Eh ... win's a win. 

Ian: I was happy that I st- we stayed on. Lance and I raced together and, um, it was four laps, 10 lap, uh, 10 mile course. Great racing. Yeah. Um, beautiful course out there.

Ian: Uh, there's just this one climb e- every lap and- Coming off the bridge? Each- Yes ... yeah, exactly. And it's n- it's like a one-minute effort, right? Mm. It's not much. It's a little 

Jake: bit longer 

Lance: than that, but yeah. One, like, 90 seconds. 

Ian: 90 seconds maybe. Yeah. And you, you start into it and it's like, "Oh, this is fine. I got this."

Ian: And then 30 seconds later, you're like, "Ah, I hope they don't-" Mm-hmm ... "push it any harder, 'cause I'm only just hanging on." Yeah. And then sure enough, you know, you get u- you get over the top, and that's when it all happens. And you're like, "Argh." Um, anyway, long story short, I did hang on. Yeah. Just barely, each lap, and then, uh, I was right there at the end.

Ian: I kinda got, I got boxed in. 

Intro Lady: Mm-hmm. 

Ian: I had to lay off my sprint and start again, and, you know, it was not ideal. Um, but nevertheless, I, I was there. So it was a good day. 

Jake: Good. So how 

Ian: did you- And then so rolling off of that, I'm like, "Oh." Just 

Jake: real quick, how did the finish come to play? I mean, was- 

Ian: It 

Jake: was a- Did you guys all race 

Ian: together?

Ian: big bunch sprint, right? It- 

Jake: Were there any people in a break that won different age groups? No. Or was it just 

Lance: like- There, there was. There was a kid- Oh, was- ... off the front. Edison Clark. Oh, at the end? Edison Clark Hoxley was off the front the whole last lap, we just didn't clock it. Oh, 

Ian: I didn't see that. 

Lance: We didn't see it.

Lance: So there was a kid off the front. I- Was 

Jake: he a junior or 

Lance: was he- Yeah. Oh. 16 year old. Geez. 

Jake: I love 

Lance: that. 16-year-old. 

Ian: This is it. They ha- they had us... It was kind of weird the way they had the group set up, so. 

Lance: They had limited drivers, so- Yeah ... there couldn't be, there couldn't be drivers- Yeah ... for each field. So Ian's group of 60 plus my group of 50 plus 345s.

Lance: Mm. All the 45s and all the 15 to 18 juniors. Mm-hmm. Wow. And there was, like, 40 45s. Damn. So there was a whole bunch of novice racers, and they're all, and they're all fast and they're all fit, they just don't have a whole lot of- Yeah ... pack riding experience. Plus, there was a hard no crossing the center line rule.

Matt: Yeah. 

Lance: And my- The, the The OBRA official behind us was honking his horn- Mm-hmm ... like every four minutes at somebody crossing the center line. So- 

Jake: Did he toss anybody? 

Lance: I'm, I'm almost sure that lots of people got disqualified, but of course the res- results aren't out yet- Yeah ... because it's, it's only been two days ago.

Jake: Well, maybe 

Ian: like sometime next month. Yeah. So it was, it was kind of a different thing being in there with the... I wouldn't say the... There was some novices, but mostly they were just young- They were good guys ... young- It, it wasn't bad ... young guns. But 

Lance: there was- There were 

Ian: several 

Lance: crashes. Me and Ian were not mixed up in them.

Lance: No. 

Ian: There was, there was a lot, there was quite a few sort of suicidal, nonsensical attacking going on. Yeah. And, and, you know, it, it was just different. And, um- Was that- And like Lance said, w- like within a, within a mile of the start there was a big, I could hear a big screech of tires and a- 10 

Lance: guys went down.

Ian: 10 guys, was it? Did that happen behind you? 

Jake: Yeah. So you didn't see 

Ian: it. And then again, like an hour, a, a mile from the end there was another crash behind me. Oh, geez. So I don't know what was going on. But we tried to stay up the front out of trouble and, um, you know, every lap- That's- ... I tried to start that one hill close to the front- Sure

Ian: so I could drift back through it. Mm-hmm. And, uh, but it, it, I thought it was a fun day. I mean- 

Lance: It was actually a great day. Yeah. The racing was actually really fun. It was te- you know, not technical, but was, was tactical. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, yeah. 

Jake: W- real quick, Ian, just walk me through the last 300 meters for you.

Jake: I, I'm curious. 

Ian: So- Were- Well, you know, it's like a, um... It, it's, it's flat and then the last, and then it kicks up to what, 3, 4%, 5%? It's not a, it's like, 

Jake: it's like your wheelhouse and my wheelhouse. 

Ian: Yeah. Yeah. The last 400 meters are uphill. But actually, the, the- Yeah ... it's 400 meters uphill and, and the, and the 200 to go it starts to level out there.

Ian: Mm-hmm. But you, you don't wanna leave it for 200 to go. No, 'cause- Everything happening ... 

Jake: yeah, you almost have to burn more of your matches on that 

Ian: initial ascent. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what happened, but I could see that and I, and I got as far, like w- Lance and I were on the inside. Lance was looking back to see if I could, if I was on his wheel.

Ian: I was 

Lance: making sure Ian was with me. 

Ian: But then I saw he was getting severely boxed in, so I went around Lance. I got boxed. But I still ended up in the middle of the pack, and then it kicked off, right? That, and you just had to go- Yeah ... with the space you had. 

Intro 2: Mm. 

Ian: What I should have done was been on the outside close to the center line.

Ian: Mm-hmm. That's where it opened up. Mm-hmm. But that's sprinting, right? You, y- you have to have that hole open up for you. Right. Or, like when you and I last raced, you know, you just went freaking early and I jumped on your wheel that day. That was awesome. Um- 

Jake: What race was that? I don't remember. 

Ian: That was down about- 

Jake: Okay

Ian: two years ago. 

Jake: Gotcha. Three years ago. But yeah. 

Ian: Three years, was it? 

Jake: Yeah. 

Ian: Yeah. It's been two or three. Three years ago. Gosh, time flies. Anyway, yeah, that was it. I mean, I went past people at the s- at the- In, on the last sprint, but- Good ... nobody went past me, but I just couldn't make any forward progress. 

Lance: What Ian didn't know is we had already dropped every other 60-year-old.

Lance: There was no other 60-year-olds in the, in the field sprint. 

Ian: Well, to be fair, I, our friend David, David Groot, he was still there. He, he'd made it over, but he's like, "Dude, my legs are cramping. My cleat is loose. I'm not gonna com- Oh ... I'm not gonna compete for the sprint." He's a pretty safe, 

Jake: he's still, he's still 50s, right?

Lance: No, he's 

Ian: 60 now. 61 now, right. Is he 

Jake: really? 

Ian: Yeah. 

Jake: Wow. 

Ian: Yeah. Huh. Anyway, he told me he wasn't gonna com- compete. 

Lance: And I wasn't really, um, I really wasn't racing for myself. I was really trying to help Ian in the last half a lap, and I completely failed at that because- 'Cause, 'cause road racing is hard. Tactics are hard.

Lance: It's tricky. I went- You 

Ian: know, you, you, you don't want to do, I don't, I wasn't worried about winning the 60s. I, I don't- Yeah ... care for that. My, my competitive instinct is to go sprint time and win the race. Yeah, 

Jake: just win 

Ian: everything, yeah. I mean, you can, I can still do it, but it's- 

Jake: So overall- ... if you were to take the, the collective total of the entire field, roughly where were you?

Lance: Oh. 

Ian: P 10, 12- 10, yeah Okay ... something like that. 

Lance: Yeah. 

Ian: Out of what? 

Lance: 60? 

Jake: 60. That's solid. 

Lance: And I was probably 20. 

Jake: Did you try- Five ... and tell all those, like, little kiddos, "Suck it"? Yeah. 

Lance: No, 'cause one was off the front. We didn't even know it. Oh, 

Jake: not, not him. But the ones that should 

Lance: be in the other 50. And the, and the, and the kid who won the field sprint, like, put his arms in the air like he won the whole thing, 'cause he didn't know there was a kid off the front too.

Lance: I didn't know there 

Ian: was a kid off the 

Lance: front. Yeah. Hmm. Anyway. Yeah, that's pretty crazy. 

Ian: Yeah. Sweet. Yeah, don't put your arms up in the air unless you're absolutely sure. Last night, that would've- That would've been- That 

Lance: would've been embarrassing ... 

Ian: really 

Lance: embarrassing. And also hilarious. Was 

Jake: Dr. Henl there?

Lance: He did not come. No. He had family things. He couldn't show up. 

Ian: It was so much more pleasant with Dr. Henl 

Jake: not there. Well, he's usually the guy that's just off the front by himself, like- 

Lance: He would've been able to get off the front 

Ian: with this group Right, but it just means that, that everybody's chasing. That's the worst part- Yeah, yeah

Ian: of a road race when you're chasing somebody. 

Jake: Yeah, with that guy, though- ... he, he usually gets out of sight and out of mind pretty early on in the race, and I think that kinda just, people- 

Ian: Yeah ... 

Jake: ah, we're not gonna get him. Just forget it, so just start doing a different kind of race. Right. I don't know. 

Ian: There were some strong 50-year-olds out there, though.

Ian: There was. Doug was out there. He was really strong. He finished in, ahead of me. Um- 

Lance: And he, uh, he won the 50s. Yeah. Um, Ben Marine from Eugene, he did well. Mm-hmm. The other, a lot of the, a lot of the 50-year-old, uh, guys, the 345s were, were out there. There was, there was like 12 or something like that, 50-year-olds, so there, I guess there wasn't that many.

Lance: I didn't, I think I only finished like seventh or something because after I got completely boxed and Ian went around me, I basically- There was nowhere for me to go. Sat. I sat up. Yeah. 

Jake: Did my 

Lance: part. Yep. So... 

Ian: Anyway, it was a good weekend. It's good to be, uh, pinning a number on again. 

Jake: Sweet. 

Ian: Doing that stuff.

Jake: Epler, you raced your bike. Uh, 

Lance: I did. I did that Banana Belt race the day before. I also did Mud Slinger, the, uh, the big mountain bike race down in- Did you crash into the bushes- I did crash- ... and then- ... several times ... I did see that vi- I 

Matt: saw that video. 

Jake: I talked to Paul. Paul never crashes. Almost never crashes.

Jake: Did he crash? He crashed as well. Oh my gosh. He said that he was talking to his people afterwards, and he's like, "Yeah, just about everybody crashed on that course." He said there was nice weather, but there were some really greasy spots. 

Lance: The, the problem- It looked thick. The mud looked thick. Yeah, the problem with the course is that it doesn't get ridden very often.

Lance: It's in a private forest. Okay. So, so it's not, like, packed in very often, and we had enough rain this last week that anything steep was, was un... It was controlled sliding. 

Jake: Oh, jeez. 

Lance: Anything steep going downhill- Hmm ... was controlled sliding. You really, it had- It also 

Matt: looked like there were ruts. 

Lance: Yes. Like, did you 

Matt: feel like you're...

Lance: Yes. That's 

Matt: kinda 

Lance: what it looked like when- So, like, if you get out of... Ugh ... if, if you lose your balance- It's... Yeah, yeah ... in the rut, you're going down. Hmm. There's, there was no way to save it. Oh. And if you're trying to do the down chutes fast, and you just- ... get off a little bit, goodbye. Over the bars, and I did it twice.

Matt: Twice? Okay. Yeah. You, you look like you're okay. I mean- I, yeah ... it looked like soft- 

Lance: It was. I just landed 

Matt: in some 

Lance: bushes ... 

Matt: you, you fell in the right, you fell in the right place. If you f- hit, were to hit, like, some sort of, like, you know, tree trunk with a stick going the wrong way, you could've hurt yourself.

Lance: Yes. Um, I, yeah, Paul messed himself up- Is he okay? ... a little more than me. Yeah, we're both okay. I mean, we're just both scratched up, but he was more scratched up than 

Ian: I was. Okay. How, how does that course rank, you know, technical-wise? It looked re- really hard. Is it? 

Lance: Um, it's, it's actually a climber's course.

Lance: Hmm. There's tons of climbing in it. There's, like, a four-mile climb in the 10-mile loop that we do twice. Wow. Wow. And so- Hmm ... clearly not a good course for me. So for me, it's just like- Well, it's 

Matt: gotta go down then, so 

Lance: there you go. It does go down, but b- But you can't go fast because- No, but you can't go fast- Yeah

Lance: 'cause there were, like, speed-ish limits on, on the single track stuff because of conditions. Yeah. So our weather was great. It just, man, I s- I suffered a lot, and it was a little bit longer than years past because he included a trail we haven't included in a number of years- Hmm ... because the guy who built that trail passed away- Oh

Lance: over the winter, and he wanted to, like- 

Matt: Tribute ... 

Lance: tribute the guy who built the trail, so. Uh, 

Matt: what bike did you use? 

Lance: I u- um, I have a new mountain bike, a new Scott Spark RC- Okay. Okay ... with Flight Attendant, and so- Yep ... 

Matt: that 

Lance: bike- It's 

Matt: not that new now. You've had it for... 

Lance: Three months. 

Matt: Oh. It's pretty fat, yeah. It is new.

Matt: Okay. It's 

Lance: brand new. 

Matt: Oh, I was thinking- 

Lance: I got another Scott Spark. 

Matt: Okay. Okay. 

Lance: Yeah. '

Matt: Cause I was gonna say, I was thinking of more like a year or two. Yeah. Something. Yeah. Anyway. 

Lance: It's, it's actually probably less than three months. Anyway. It, yeah, you just got it- I got it right before Echo. Yeah. 

Matt: Did you scratch it up and beat it up?

Matt: It's very purple. 

Lance: Uh, it's very purple. It needs to be painted something else. I did not scratch it up though. It's 

Jake: got neon- stuff on it too. Looks like someone got excited and- ... voided themselves- Could ... 

Lance: on the bike Yeah, that's a good way to put it. It, it does. The paint job is... But you know what? I've ha- I've had five or six people say, "Dude, I love that bike," but they tend to be kids.

Jake: Mm. 

Matt: Oh, okay. You're, you're hip to the 

Lance: youngsters. I guess I'm hip to the youngsters, but- 

Matt: Yeah, 

Jake: yeah, yeah. Bike's okay, though? 

Lance: Uh, yeah, bike's totally fine. Yeah, and I was totally fine too. I wasn't hurt at all. I just, like, I lost a couple positions and whatnot. 

Jake: Did anybody get h- seriously hurt on that? I 

Lance: don't think so.

Jake: No? So just- 

Lance: No, no. It's- Mere, 

Jake: mere flesh wounds? 

Lance: Yeah, just flesh wounds. So, uh, again, I'm racing the Cat 150 field. Um, I, I only beat the guy who had a mechanical, the guy who rode off course, and the 69-year-old that wanted to race Cat 1. Those are the only three people I beat in the Cat 1 field. So you're welcome.

Lance: Thank you very much. Thank you, 

Matt: thank you. 

Lance: Yeah. So I was, like, I was, like, 10th in that, so. 

Matt: Perfect. 

Lance: Yeah. But yeah, great time. Mike Ripley puts on a great event. Yeah. Um, it was, it was a little more poorly attended than I was hoping it would be. There were a lot of people who weren't there that normally are there, so I don't know what, what's up with that.

Lance: And then the Banana Belt race was very well attended. The- Oh, that's good ... the road race. That's 

Jake: good 'cause road racing needs that. 

Lance: Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's because the weather was great. 

Matt: The organizers are, like, they- 

Lance: Different organizers. 

Matt: Well, I just think that that group is doing good things. Yes. That team, that team.

Lance: Yes. So- Yeah, it was, 

Ian: it was very well put on. 

Lance: It was, it was well put on. You know, it's just a bum we don't have, like, quick, like, results. Well- Yeah ... that being said, I mean, Ian did, Ian did, uh, PIR last night, and they had chip timing and- Instant results ... and those results aren't out yet- Oh ... either. 

Matt: They're not instant results?

Matt: There 

Jake: must be something wrong. You know, I was gonna ask, that's a passive system. It's a 

Lance: passive 

Jake: system. So it's, it's not gonna be super great when you're talking about, like, big bunch finishes. Correct. 

Lance: Makes it tricky. 

Jake: I don't understand what the 

Matt: p- You have to put your RFID on the front of your bike.

Matt: That's right. Not the back of your bike. Tape it to 

Lance: your fork, not to your seat 

Matt: post. Come on, guys. Well, they had, um- This is, this is rookie ... it 

Ian: was the first time he was using it, and so they had the Obra camera as backup. Um- 

Lance: Yeah, 

Ian: yeah ... and he, I spoke to Kevin a, a, a few weeks ago, and he's, th- there's multiple ways of measuring that.

Ian: He said it w- it was suitable for a big bunch sprint. Mm. That there's multiple ways of measuring it at the, at the very end there. Oh, good. I don't know all the details, but we'll see. We'll see how it goes. We'll see. It will, it will eventually. He wants it to... It should- Be like the other chip timing, like with E8, whereas whereby you, you get your live results, um- Immediately

Ian: immediately. So I think it's a work in progress. Mm. Um, it- and it's gonna be good. I think it's, it's, it's, um- We hope so ... a big improvement. 

Matt: Yeah. Usually with the camera systems, like you can film it and like that's like the official- 

Ian: Mm ... 

Matt: placement, right? Yes. So like someone's reviewing that and just- Yes ... like punching a button.

Matt: It's pretty quick. It's just- You can do that really quickly ... it, it's one- But then you can get the general consensus and maybe even like the time can come from the RFID. 

Lance: Right. 

Ian: Yeah. So 

Matt: anyway. 

Ian: Right now, uh, the, the OBRA, there's, there's one person reviewing that camera footage. Yeah. Okay. And there's people, you know, there's, there's people whose numbers aren't visible.

Ian: Yeah. There's, there's, there's all kinds of issues, um, 

Matt: that- We usually have a team-- At a small track meet, we usually have like a team- Mm ... of at least two. So, and usually it's sometimes it's like three, and this is for- Three ... like a small track meet- A small track meet ... compared to- Yeah ... compared to like a- Yeah

Matt: a real road race or BIR. 

Ian: Well, there's a couple of people manning the camera. There's a, there's the judge- Uh ... and there's a camera person. But then as, as far as compiling the results and, and posting the results, um, it's, it's like a one-man show, I believe. So- 

Jake: Going with a passive system as opposed to an active system, I, I'm guessing it's, it's a cost-prohibitive thing.

Jake: It's ex- It's, 

Lance: it's way cheaper. Yeah. Exactly. Passive systems are way cheaper than active systems. 

Jake: Correct. But what about like long-term and just like the viability of the, the actual numbers that you're able to produce and- 

Lance: Yeah, that's a good question. Don't know. 

Jake: Hm. 

Lance: You know? 

Jake: I mean, I, I hope he-- I, I love the fact that he's doing this.

Jake: I think it's fantastic. It was-- When I was on the board of directors, that's one of the things that I pushed hard for and well, I didn't get much traction with it, but I'm glad to see somebody just- Somebody doing it ... taking a proactive approach outside of the organization to say, "I wanna offer this- Yeah

Jake: at my race events." 

Ian: He wants-- But not only that, he wants to offer it at his race events- At his race ... but he wants to make it available for all the promoters as well. Other 

Jake: people. Yeah. And, and that's 

Ian: fantastic. Very reasonably as 

Jake: well. Because we've used E8 for the time trial- Yeah ... and it, it would floor some people to know how much we had to pay to use that system.

Jake: It was, like, 15, 1600 bucks- Yeah. Yeah ... to have 100 and some odd people come out and do the race, 150 people come out and do the race. You're- So it's like an extra 10 bucks a person- Yeah ... for us to, to offer that. Mm-hmm. And that's why we did raise our prices. 

Lance: E8 is a proven commodity, and because of that, their prices have gone up- 

Jake: Yep

Lance: in the last few years. So, I mean- 

Jake: And, and I'm all for people, 'cause that's a- I get that ... it's a big commitment. Yep. You've gotta get, get out there, be out there all day. It's all of your equipment that you've invested a lot of money in. Yep. I get that. 

Matt: I mean, honestly, 1,500 bucks sounds cheap to me. Like, r- 

Lance: Not when there's 90 racers.

Jake: Well, we had 

Matt: 150. No, no, no, forget the numbers. Like, if I was to hire you to go out, you know, wake up at, on a Saturday, leave your family behind, and get at, and be there at, let's say 6:00 AM- Yeah, for 1,500 bucks ... and be there till 6:00 PM. Yeah. Would you do it for 1,500 bucks? You'd be like, "Mm, maybe." Mm. And, another thing- But, but a lot of Saturdays you'd be like, "No, thanks."

Matt: Yeah. And, uh- I'd rather go race a different... You know, you wanna do all... You, you have a lot of stuff to do on Saturdays. 

Ian: Yeah, yeah. It, it really works well. Yeah. Uh, it's a great system. And, and for some of the bigger races, like the gravel races we go to- Yeah ... where you've got 8, 900 people, then it, it makes total sense.

Ian: Oh, absolutely. And the other thing- But for smaller events- Yeah ... it, it's difficult to make it work. 

Jake: I just don't- Yeah ... see how that works well for, like, a cyclocross race, when you've got- Mm ... closer stuff in PR where, or a, a crit for that matter. You've got 8, 10, 12, 15 people crossing the line within, like, a second or two of each other- Yeah

Jake: going 28 to 35 miles an hour. 

Lance: And if there's seven guys lined up across the finish line, or four guys- Yeah ... lined up across the finish line, and one guy's number's- Ah ... blocking the guy, you know, to his left. 

Matt: Well, and, and you have lapped traffic, people coming through the finish line- Yep ... that have to keep going.

Matt: Like, that's really confusing. 

Lance: They use the same system at Portland Trophy Cup. For all the cyclocross races at Portland Trophy Cup last year, w- it was an, an RFID passive system that attached to your seat post. So it was the, it was the same type of system. And it actually worked great in cyclocross. It worked.

Jake: Hmm. Yeah. Okay. Well, I stand corrected then. 

Lance: Yeah. Yeah. It, but there isn't sprint finishes in cyclocross. That's true. And, and, um- In 

Matt: those... 

Lance: If you didn't have your number in the r- the, the chip, RFD chip in the right spot- Yeah ... and the camera missed you, it thought y- you did a lap that took twice as long. 

Matt: Mm.

Lance: Because, you know, cyclocross- It missed you, yeah ... is multiple laps, and then all of a sudden you were at the bottom. So there were- issues with it, but they're- 

Matt: I also- But 

Lance: they're, they're improving it ... 

Matt: I still also think, like, okay, 1,500 bucks for this, all the RFID stuff is expensive too. Yeah. Yeah. Like, it doesn't- And generally- 1,500 bucks is tough to beat.

Jake: Yeah. Yeah. Generally speaking too, they're sending two people out to do these events, if I'm not mistaken. 

Matt: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. 

Jake: So. 

Matt: I think the truth of the matter is, like, we've talked about this on the podcast before, raise entry prices. No one likes that. You don't like that. You guys hate this, this suggestion, but, like, raise the entry prices for all these things.

Ian: Well, well, I g- I could talk at length about this, I guess. 

Jake: I don't mind paying that, 'cause that's a service that we need and we love. I would actually pay more. It's the, I don't wanna have to pay the municipalities as much as we're paying to go out there and put on an event, or- True ... pay $400 a day per toilet, you know, outhouse that you're having out there.

Matt: Mm-hmm. 

Jake: Flaggers, I love you, but, I mean, uh, we shouldn't have to pay you 50, 60 bucks an hour per person. It's just, that's cost prohibitive. Very true. To put on a bicycle racing event. And it's not... Well, I guess some of the promoters are doing this for profit, but, you know, usually they want- 

Ian: At the end of the day, you- Not the road races, unless- You can, you can really only charge market rates.

Ian: You know, above a certain point- I don't- ... people are just not gonna show up. Mm. And unfortunately, for road events, like our time trial, like my Barton Park, there's a ceiling to what you can charge, and otherwise people won't show up. Correct. So Barton Park, I'm charging 50 bucks- Mm-hmm ... per rider, for example.

Ian: I need 100 people to show up just to break even- To break even, yeah ... on that. Con- uh, on the other side of the coin, I, I can't bring myself to do this upcoming race on Sunday, the gravel race out at Duferhauch, which I've done every year the last six, six years or so. Gorge Gravel. Gorge Gravel. Fantastic race.

Ian: What a great event. But I just can't justify paying $185- Is that what they're 

Jake: charging 

Ian: now? There's- ... for a s- for a s- one day race. It- Yeah ... it's beyond... 

Lance: That's... It does come with a meal and with- 

Ian: Yeah, T-shirt ... T-shirt and a goodie bag ... and you get a prize. I mean- So, uh- ... pretty nice podium prizes. It's a fantastic event, so well organized.

Ian: Yeah. And I appreciate how much it must cost to put that on, but on the other hand... 

Jake: Well, that, that's a good question. Okay. Like, you're a promoter. Like, how much more is it to put on an event like that, where you don't have to pay for a lot of the things that you have to pay for just to put on a road event?

Jake: Like, do you need the same number of flaggers? Is- 

Ian: I think you do. You know, ev- even, even these gravel roads are public roads, so by law, you know, every intersection you gotta have somebody there. Right. Even if there's no tra- no vehicle traffic at all. Have you 

Jake: seen any flaggers out on the, the Gorge Gravel grinder course lines?

Jake: Yes. 

Lance: There, there's- Oh, yeah ... a couple. There's- 

Jake: Closer to town though, right? 

Lance: There's two or, there's two or three- But not- ... intersections where there's flaggers 

Jake: Okay, but not all of them. 

Lance: No. 

Ian: But no more than Barton Park, for example. 

Jake: Okay. 

Ian: For sure. It's, like- 

Lance: Barton Park needs, like, 14. 

Jake: Yeah. Now- To go back to this, though, I mean, how many people...

Jake: What's the cap? What's the ceiling on the number? 

Lance: 900. 

Jake: Okay, times 185. And he- That's a pretty big cash grab. Yeah. Now, granted, I want to see promoters do well, but there's gonna be that, that fine point of like i- it's maybe gonna lose a little bit of its luster or- 

Lance: I don't want that race to go 

Jake: away. No. Yeah.

Jake: But w- what, what's a, what's a, what's a palatable number for you? 

Ian: I, I think- 

Matt: If it was 100? 

Ian: Yeah, I would pay $100. 

Matt: So that's still double the price that you're saying that you charge. 

Ian: It's just a barrier to entry, like it, it's making bike racing more exclusive than it should be, right? This is true. It's, it's- 

Matt: How much do you guys pay for Unbound?

Lance: Unbound is, is $300 for a single-day race. 

Matt: And I think that's probably a pretty 

Lance: good- And, and I just signed up for Belgium Waffle Ride San Diego. I'm gonna do that in two weeks. How much? It was 285. Oh, wow. For a one-day race. 

Matt: I just think that- Yeah ... like, people are- So much ... willing to pay a premium for a premium, like, race.

Matt: Event, yeah. Yeah. Right? Like, you, you probably didn't bat an eye when you're like, "Hey, I qualified for Unbound. I got in this year." Like, yep, the price tag- Oh ... is gonna be thick, but you're just, you just fork it over. Yeah, it's just the supply and demand 

Jake: thing there 

Ian: right now. With, uh... Yeah, you, you charge what people are willing to pay.

Ian: Right. 

Matt: Yeah. That's 

Ian: the economics of 

Lance: it. See, here's the other 

Matt: thing. But you can also provide a better product when you can... When you... What were you talking about before with Gravel Grinder? It's like you get whatever, a- You get, 

Lance: you get a meal ... 

Matt: you get a meal. You get a 

Lance: T-shirt. You get a- 

Matt: You get 

Lance: a- You get a finisher pint glass.

Matt: Yeah, 

Lance: cool stuff You get a patch. And then- You get a sticker. The podium prizes are great. Yeah. There's on-course- In the f- ... you know, um, food Feed zones ... feed 

Matt: zones. Ra- race timing is a, is less of a commitment from the race director standpoint- Yeah ... when it's a smaller percentage of the total, you know, volume of, of money that you're dealing with.

Lance: Here's, here's the other thing. His race has sold out every year for the last 10 years. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lance: It... The fact that there was a, a spot that Ian could register for it this week is a little unique. 

Matt: Mm. 

Lance: It's, it's usually sold out, so he doesn't need to charge less. Yeah. Right. Because it's always sold out for the last 10 years, so why wouldn't he continue charging it?

Lance: For me, I, I signed up for all of Chad Sperry's events. He has three events. I signed up as a package deal, and so what ended up happening was I got this entry for free. 

Matt: Oh yeah? 

Lance: Because- Because you did the whole package ... because I did the all three races package. Now, one of the races is Oregon Trail Gravel, and that's like two grand.

Lance: Well, but that's- Because it's a 

Matt: five-day And they, like, take your stuff for you 

Lance: And it's breakfast, lunch, and dinner every day- Yeah ... and transfers, and it... Yeah, so it's- 

Matt: They throw in this little, tiny- 

Lance: And camping ... 

Matt: $200 race from there, like- Yeah ... "Look what you get. Here you go." 

Lance: You want... Yeah. You wanna come, you can have this, uh, have this race for free.

Lance: Pay us 

Matt: five grand and 

Lance: you can do this. And I happily did it because I thought- Yeah, yeah ... I'm probably gonna do all three of these races anyway. 

Matt: And you've done them in the past, and you know they're good at 

Lance: this. And I signed up for them in November- Yeah ... when he had this super- Deal ... great deal. And I'm like, "Okay, that's worth it for me to do the super great deal," and I'm committed to Oregon Trail Gravel and Cascade Gravel and Gorge Gravel now this year.

Ian: So- That's funny. I, I... After, after last year, I vowed, after five years, I'm never ever gonna do, um, Baker City Cycling Classic a- again. And guess what my prize was for winning Banana Belt? That's right. A free entry to Baker City- Free entry to Baker City ... 

Jake: Cycling Classic. Love it. So, so real quick question.

Jake: We're kind of off topic here. This is g- this is great. Yeah. This is how we do this show. I've never done this before. What's going on? I actually li- 

Matt: I actually like this topic. I think it's pretty 

Jake: fun. This is a good topic. So Matt is suggesting charging more of a premium. What kind of a premium price tag would you put on the Barton Park race experience?

Jake: Ian currently has it sitting at 50 bucks a head. Where would you put that if you were- 

Matt: Over $100. 

Jake: Over $100? 

Matt: Over $100. You know why? I would try to transform the event into something that Lance would be like, "I can't miss this race." "I can't miss it." "I can't miss this race. I'm willing to pay a premium for it."

Matt: Maybe there's some package discount deal in November. Steal ideas. Don't come up with them yourself. Th- there's, whatever it is, there's, um... I think you have to start small because, like, I think it's gotta build a bit of a momentum, right? Because it's not gonna be sold out on the first year because no one knows how fantastic, fantastic it is.

Matt: But if you have that extra money, I think you can do a lot more things. Again, chip timing or, you know, paying a timing company to come out, that's a lot more reasonable. But maybe it's just the first time, it's, like, more podium prizes. More premiums. More of a something simple like that. More premiums and experiences.

Matt: Podium prizes. 

Ian: We are gonna have some splendid podium prizes. Yep. It's gonna be good. But- What, what, what would you put that? But again, like, like Banana Belt charged $40, so- 

Matt: Yeah ... 

Ian: if somebody, if somebody had just raced that and then looked at my race and it was $100, they would expect a whole lot more. 

Matt: They would expect a lot more.

Matt: Yeah. But- So what would you do? What would you do with that extra money? Well, I mean- That's my question. 

Ian: Yeah. 

Matt: Well, how would you make it premium? How would you make it a cool experience for people with an extra- Go to Sister. You were going to Sister, baby. The 

Ian: thing is, the, the motivation behind putting Barton Park on was always to- Yes

Ian: try to keep road racing happening here, keep it keep, uh, keep it alive in the Portland, uh, Vancouver area 

Matt: But what- 

Ian: And then, so I don't wanna create a barrier to that- 

Matt: Right ... 

Ian: for, for people that just can't afford to 

Matt: go But what if keeping road racing alive and keeping, keeping this race alive is making it a more premium event that people are more encouraged to go to, and potentially make sure that they sign up for quickly before they get cut off the, the list?

Matt: Like, there's a limited number of- Then I- ... of spots. 

Ian: Then I feel like I would just be part of the problem. Like- Can I, 

Jake: can I pitch something to you real quick? Yeah, sure, 

Ian: yeah. 

Jake: Well, let me just ask you a quick question, just to kind of qualify the numbers here. What are you expecting in terms of registration?

Jake: Like, what, what would be, like, all right, that, that's good. You said 100 would break even. 150? Does that sound like 

Ian: a- Yeah, we had, I think last year we had close to 150. Okay. But it was a beautiful weekend. What happens is, people leave it to the last minute. Mm, they wait for weather. 'Cause they're watching, they were looking at the weather.

Jake: Yeah. 

Ian: And- So, uh, a- anything could happen. Like, last year I made some money. It was great, but the sun was out. So this year, all it would take would be a shitty weather forecast- 

Jake: Mm-hmm ... 

Ian: and then it'd be a close call- Okay ... whether I'm out of pocket or not. 

Jake: Yeah. So- Hmm ... let's just, let's just say safely, 150 people, rain or shine.

Jake: That, we'll just say that's your number, right? Mm. And you're charging 50 bucks a head, so if you come out on top, you're, you make 20 or tw- 2,500 bucks-ish, give or take. And people don't under- well, oh, that's, that sounds like a lot of money, but if you think about the, the sheer number of hours that you put into it- Yeah

Jake: leading up to it, and all of the work that has to be done, plus the amount of time that you spend out there during the event- Yeah ... and then the, the breakdown process and just the, the stress, I mean, it really is not, like, all that glamorous. But if you made a little bit more, that could be good for you. But what would happen if you jumped your prices up from 50 to 85 bucks?

Jake: Just curiosity here. Another 35 bucks. If you would lose a lot of people. About how many people do you think you would lose, just ballpark? 

Ian: Um, yeah, that's ha- that's a good question, hard to say. Um... 

Jake: What if we said you went down to 125 people? Mm. But 

Ian: then it- 

Lance: I wouldn't flinch. I wouldn't flinch 

Jake: at 85 

Lance: over- 

Jake: Hold on

Jake: 50. But there's gonna be people that are gonna flinch, and we'll just say that you lose 25 racers, but your, your net goes from 7,500 bucks to 10,625, and what you can do is create a scholarship program to, uh, or just, uh, underwrite some of these people to get some of those 25 racers to come back. You're, you're gonna be doing them a favor- Mm

Jake: taking care of them financially. You've got some extra bucks in your back pocket. You take that money, some of it, not all of it, 'cause you need to make some money too, and then you can start buying some prizes. You can bring in some food. Yeah. You can bring in some other accommodations to make the people kind of stoked.

Jake: If you 

Ian: go- That's absolutely true. You, you could grow this event, right? Sure. You, you could make it better. You could, you could... There's all kinds of things. But do I wanna do that? Like, it's just me, and I feel like- I'm, I'm doing, uh, it, it's enough work for me. I don't wanna make it a big event, right? I don't- 

Jake: Okay.

Jake: You've got extra money to pay somebody to help you with some of the 

Matt: stuff, you know? But if you don't wanna make it a big event, cap the number of, of racers at, like, 50 racers, and put that at the top of every single post at, on Instagram or on, on your website. The, this race will be sold out at this number, and- At 

Jake: this many people per field, 

Matt: period.

Matt: And this- Yeah ... and this is the price. Or I would definitely do some sort of graduated pricing where it's like, right now it's 50 bucks. In two weeks it's gonna be 60 bucks. In, you know, a month- Mm-hmm ... it's gonna be 80 bucks or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so that that's 

Ian: like- That seems to work. But right, it, it's just, it's in line with- Yes

Ian: the price is in line with- Yeah. It is in line ... similar events- Yeah ... yes ... at the moment. I'm, yeah, but- And if I, if I charge more- 

Matt: People are gonna 

Ian: be like- ... I would have to- ... "What the fuck?" ... add more value in some way. Yeah. You're right. Do, right now i- it's enough work to try and get prizes together to, to get the traffic controlled- Yeah

Ian: taken care of, to get the permits to- Sure ... put it all on. Yeah. You could 

Matt: also- And the prizes 

Ian: you're 

Matt: getting are probably f- donated. 

Ian: And then you have more to lose. Like, if you have a, a, a real weekend where it's- Yeah ... forecast to pour down with rain and nobody wants to show up, then you've exposed yourself to greater risk if you invested more in it, so.

Matt: If you've invested more in it- It's, it's hard to say ... I agree with you on that. Like, if you're like, "All right. We bought beer glasses for everyone," or whatever. Mm-hmm. I mean, you don't put a year on it so that you can use them the next year. I mean, there's probably things that we could do to, like, to, to mitigate some of the risks.

Matt: Yeah. Right? So I don't, I don't have all the answers, but I definitely feel like, um, that's probably the direction I would take it. I would increase-- I would try and increase the price. 

Jake: Yeah. There's- 

Ian: To be honest, I, I think I'm gonna take it in the other direction. That's good too. And, and- I love that ... and pass it on to somebody else or- Yeah

Ian: I, I've done it. This three years is a good run, and- Yep 

Jake: Yeah. I- And it's a- ... 

Ian: I don't 

Jake: know. I personally don't wanna see the prices go up. I would love to- Mm-hmm ... figure out a way to, like, how do, how do we keep the same quality and provide more, but cost less? And that- Mm. ... that just comes into, like- 

Ian: Sure ... 

Jake: you know, sponsorship stuff and- Yep.

Jake: Yeah ... different vendors coming in and underwriting things, and having different ways of generating income. I mean, what if you had a, you know, five food trucks out there, and you just charged each one of them 100 bucks to show up just to be able to- Mm ... sell their stuff, and, and you don't have to do anything from there, but you made 500 bucks that you can put into you or anything 

Ian: else?

Ian: But again, it's, the scale of it, you know, it's n- nobody's gonna show up for the day with a food cart When there's only 100 people at the, the- Oh, then start 

Jake: with 

Ian: one ... event. But- So- You know, 'cause- I mean, we, we found that with our time trial, right? In the end, we couldn't really attract food vendors because the- The numbers

Ian: they weren't gonna, the, the numbers didn't stack up. Ah. And then you, you need, you need more, you need extra permits and- That's where- ... fire department- 

Jake: That's 

Ian: where- ... permits and all kinds of things ... 

Jake: exactly. We kinda did it under the radar and- Yeah ... it was okay. It, it didn't end up being what we thought it was gonna be, but the, the thing that really caused us not to be able to do it going forward was just all of the bureaucracy behind being able to bring a frick, a freaking food truck out to sell some food, you know?

Jake: Mm. Yeah, that's- 

Ian: I kind of, you know, personally, I, I like a, a s- stripped down... I don't need my events to be premium. I, like Banana Belt. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Ian: I won a banana. You won a banana. And, uh, I won a banana and a, and, well, I, I got the, the, the race entry for Baker City, but, um, it was no frills. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Ian: And, and that was kind of- And you prefer that

Ian: fun, you know? You, you, you show up, you put a number on, you get, roll up to the start line- Yeah ... you do your thing, you go home. That's- Plus- To me, that's grassroots bike racing. Yeah. It's all it needs to be. I don't need another beer glass or another T-shirt or- Does 

Jake: that attract out new cyclists, though?

Ian: What's that? 

Jake: I, does that bring out new racers? Does that get people excited about bike racing? 

Ian: Yeah. Good. No, no, no. 

Matt: I think, I think the way that you're doing it and the way that you're pricing it and your goal of pricing it lower is extremely admirable. Like, to me, that's, like, worth it just for that. Like, the fact that you're, like, doing stuff for the community.

Matt: Mm. Your, your goal is to reduce the prices, not, like, gouge people for every dollar. Mm. Like, to me, you're like, you're doing it correctly. 

Ian: Thank you. Yeah. 

Matt: Yeah. No, you're, it's just hats off. It's awesome. 

Ian: All right. 

Matt: It's hard, it's a hard way to do it. That is- And that is your topic for today. 

Jake: Yeah. Fun to look at that from a couple different angles and, and I'm sure that you'll stew on this, and I'm sure you'll come up with some s- something pretty genius- Yeah

Jake: that you can pass on to somebody else if you're done. Yeah. So. I'm 

Ian: just not, I'm not an entrepreneurial guy. I know that about myself, you know? I've, I've got a, my own business. It, it's, but it, it's the same kinda thing. You know, like, it could be bigger. I could grow it. I could offer this, that, and the other, but I- 

Jake: But you also wanna ride your bike and enjoy your life and travel and 

Ian: all the things And I'm, I'm retired.

Ian: And you're retired, yeah. I, I don't- Yeah ... I've done all that, so. 

Lance: There is a big difference between the race promoters who do it as their job- 

Matt: Mm-hmm ... 

Lance: and the race promoters like Ian, who do it to- To give back ... to give back and keep a race on the calendar that we don't wanna lose. Yeah, yeah. 

Matt: Well, I feel like Banana Belt's like that, too.

Matt: Yeah. Like, it's just- It is ... the team that wants to do something cool. 

Lance: And it's, and it's- And that's, and it, it 

Matt: is cool ... 

Lance: it's changed, the promoter at, at Banana Belt has changed hands a couple of times. Mm. Just somebody says, "I'm not doing it next year," and a different team takes it up. Uh, I 

Ian: think that's probably 

Jake: what's gonna happen at Battle Ground.

Jake: This is the third, third team in the last- Yeah ... three or four years- Yeah, yeah ... if I'm not mistaken 

Lance: that's 

Jake: put that on. Yeah. Good on them for doing it, though, 

Ian: but. Yeah. 

Lance: But so thank, thank goodness that it still happened. 

Jake: Yeah. 

Ian: It i- it, sometimes it's a, it's a little frustrating. Like, you, you, you are kinda doing it for the community, but the community is hesitant as well.

Ian: Everybody wants to race their bikes, and yet every- nobody, nobody registers until the last minute, or you can't get people to volunteer to just drive the cars- You just gotta come up with 

Jake: an edge where people are, like, hoping and praying and, and rooting for rain. 

Ian: Yeah. 

Jake: Like, you, you gotta change the dynamic of it.

Jake: Like, if it rains- Yeah ... this is what happens, and it's just gonna be a ... You know, blah, blah. That'd be cool. Yeah. Yeah. And just- 

Ian: Well, we've done that race in the rain before. Sure. Way back, and 

Jake: it, it was fine. And it's miserable, but h- have it be some sort of reward for the, the miserableness of it. Could it be 

Matt: there, there could...

Matt: Yeah, I think, like, you're right. Like, this is, like, the, um, you know, every, every problem is an opportunity in disguise- Yeah ... right? Where it's like, okay, well, if it rains, we have this special thing that happens. Yeah. And I don't know what that special thing is. Maybe it's, like, a special award at the finish line, or, you know, someone who ends up the most wet, you, you know, way before, and then you weigh yourself afterwards.

Matt: Yeah. And whoever weighs the most, like, gained the most water wins. Sure. Something stupid like that, right? Yeah. Like, come up with something and be like, "This is a cool way-" "... to make rain-" 

Jake: Yeah "... 

Matt: a, a positive instead of a negative." Well, 

Ian: I spent a couple of hundred dollars on a, on a big 150-person picnic shelter that's...

Ian: So in ca- just, just in case it rains, right? In case it rains at Barton 

Matt: Park. 

Ian: But yeah. I know what you're saying. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's 

Matt: cool. 

Ian: All right. 

Jake: I think we're, I think you were backpedaling. I don't know where the hell we went sideways, but- Was I backpedaling? Yes. 

Matt: Uh, Jake's, Jake's turned a backpedal.

Matt: Clearly done. I'm clearly 

Lance: done 

Matt: backpedaling. Jake? 

Jake: What? 

Matt: Backpedal. 

Jake: I didn't do anything, guys. Come on now. You know that. Come 

Matt: on. 

Jake: I went to- Come on ... North Carolina. You... Yeah, 

Matt: yeah, yeah. 

Jake: Been there, done that. Moving on. Yeah. Not much to report about, um, Greensboro, North 

Matt: Carolina. Did you have a direct flight? 

Jake: No.

Matt: Where did you g- I'm trying to think about it. Well, I know- 

Jake: Dude, I- 

Matt: Where did you go? 

Jake: I don't know what it is. I... It's usually- Did you g- It's happened to me on Alaska once and on United twice. Uh, the Wi-Fi. What's going on with the planes and the Wi-Fi? It seems like these two- It's a long, long trip ... these two airlines never, never fricking works right.

Jake: But- Well, 

Lance: I will say, most people don't plan on working the whole trip. I just, I just download a couple movies I haven't seen 

Jake: yet and then I kick 

Lance: back. No, I- Chilled 

Jake: out, yeah. It's usually a good four to five hours of, like, work that I can get done. It's, it's- Nobody's bugging me. Nobody can call me. Yeah.

Jake: Nobody's walking in. Yeah. Everybody that I'm traveling with is usually asleep or engrossed in something else. I'm like, "All right. I'm gonna get all this work done." And a lot of times I ha- I do. I get a ton of work done, and then there's the times where the internet doesn't work. 

Ian: Then you can't do nothing.

Ian: Yeah. It, it's a technical... Uh, having been in aircraft maintenance, this, it's a technical issue, right? F you maintenance 

Jake: people that can't fix 

Ian: the internet. Oh. It's a difficult thing- Satellite, right? ... to provide that kind of bandwidth. There's a, essentially there's, there's two commercial systems out there.

Ian: One of them is predominantly for the, um, it- It's, it's, it's like a traditional cell network- Mm-hmm ... but for aviation- Sure ... and it's in the domestic markets, and then there's, there's a satellite-based thing for the transatlantic and the, um- 

Jake: Is Starlink gonna get in on this? I think 

Ian: they are with some companies.

Ian: I don't, I don't know, but, but if... In, in the, with the domestic system, it's difficult to- Yeah ... provide the bandwidth to you- So, an- ... especially if everybody's getting on at the same time. It's 

Jake: like- Answer this question, though. Is... I don't know if this is how it works, but I'm not able to access the internet. I can't do any work on my computer.

Jake: It just, it doesn't work. It's no connection, whatever. But I can get on their system, and I can watch movies and TV shows. 

Ian: That's because they have a, there's a local server in the- Yeah ... back of the airplane 

Jake: that's- It's got all of that stuff there? 

Ian: Yep, it's all- Okay ... stored locally. That's, 

Jake: that's kind of what, what I was thinking 'cause, like- Mm-hmm

Jake: this sucks 'cause I can't access the internet to do anything, but I can sure watch all these stupid movies- No ... and TV shows, 

Ian: so. The, the, the movies are stored on the airplane. 

Jake: Okay. When- I guess that makes sense ... 

Matt: on my trip to DC, it was interesting. The, they wouldn't allow, like, general, um, internet traffic.

Matt: This was, like, the free tier. I'm sure there was a, a more, a higher paid option. But it would allow, like, um, messages through different, like, messaging programs. So you could, like, hang on their net- local network, or you could do, like, really... You know, of course, network traffic-wise, this is tiny traffic. Yeah.

Matt: Like, messaging. So what I was doing was I was using AI, and I'm messaging my home computer through Telegram, which is like- Sure ... chat. And I'm like, I had, like, 10 or 12 different AI systems, like, running different things the whole time, and I'm constantly, like, texting, you know, the next one what to do or whatever.

Matt: Yeah. And so I was constantly getting, like, AI to do all this work while I was flying- Get your minions doing your- ... five hours. Yeah, it was crazy. Looking for it. It was wild. Oh, okay. And I was like, "Man, I need to, like, show people this," 'cause it's like, you know- That's fantastic ... you're flying the whole way through, five hours, and it was like great.

Matt: Mm-hmm. That's cool. Got a ton of- 

Jake: And I could get the periodic texts that might come through. Like, it- Yep. Yeah ... was something that maybe was sent, like, 20 to 30 minutes prior, but anyway. 

Ian: I think what happens is the antenna they use is limited to the power output- Mm-hmm ... and the, and the bandwidth it can support because of the potential for interference with e- everything else the- Yeah

Ian: airplane, airplane's trying to receive and transmit, so. Yeah. 

Jake: Yeah. So we flew from, from Portland to- Mm ... Washington, DC. Mm-hmm. Oh. And zero internet. And then we go to get on this little puddle jumper. It's like a two by one seating arrangement, like, where you had to, like, cock your head a little bit to the sideways so you didn't hit your head on the ceiling going in there.

Jake: No internet on that. Plus, we were in the air for f- 40 minutes or something like that. Yeah. So I'm like, "Oh, that sucks." And then, you know, I don't have time 'cause this soccer thing. Yeah. We were there for soccer, and it was just soccer, soccer, soccer, soccer. And there just- Yeah ... wasn't really ever at the hotel 'cause we had to get up there early.

Jake: We were there all day doing stuff and whatnot, and then get back, and I'm like, "I'm tired. I'm not gonna go work on the computer." Anyway, so I didn't get anything done, and I had so much stuff that I needed to get done. And then coming back, it was the same issue. Um, we- Mm. Well, actually, I take that back. We flew from, um, Greensboro to Chicago, and d- we weren't really up in the air for all that long.

Jake: By the time we got up and everything was, you know, settled, I didn't wanna pay the, whatever the premium was to get the internet for just 45 minutes or, or so. And 

Matt: it's not very good when you get it. 

Jake: E- exactly. It always sucks. I'm like, "All right, I'll get it on the next leg home from Chicago to Portland."

Jake: Internet problems again. Oh, you want a little fun fact? Did you guys, I, I think I've mentioned this to Lance, did you hear anything about, like, a plane being forced down that left Chicago and went to, was going to New York, but had to land in Pittsburgh? Mm-mm. And it was an emergency landing because they heard this rhythmic beeping that nobody could account for, and it kept getting l- stronger, and it was like, every second it was, like, beep, beep, beep, and it kept getting lo- Anyway, emergency landing in Pittsburgh.

Jake: They make everybody, like, open, get off the plane. They open up emergency exits. People are sliding down the, the slides and sliding off the plane, and the, they're, flight... All the people are like, "Get away from the plane. Get away." Wow. And there's, like, bomb expert people there, uh, Homeland Security, FBI, fire depa- the whole thing, and all these people had to go run out in the middle of the field.

Jake: I'm like, "That's crazy." They were on the same airline I was. They left Chicago about, like, an hour before we got there. Hmm. So I'm like, "Oh." 

Ian: I wonder what it 

Jake: was. Glad that wasn't us. But they still haven't come out and said exactly what it was yet. I haven't seen it yet, but I haven't really seen any media coverage on it.

Jake: It's been more people that were on the plane that had video of this happening- 

Lance: Oh my gosh ... 

Jake: telling their experience. I'm like, "Why aren't they talking about this?" But I don't know. Anyway. Mm. So anyway, long story short, um, yeah, Greensboro, been there, done that, don't need to go back. 

Lance: Asheville's cool in North Carolina.

Lance: Yeah. That's a pretty spot over there. Yeah. 

Jake: Have you been to the Blue Ridge Mountains? 

Lance: Yep. 

Jake: I heard that John Denver guy tell me it's pretty cool, so. I wanted to go there, but everybody said, "No, it's a three-hour drive." 

Lance: Blue Ridge Parkway- Yeah ... is gorgeous. It's a fantastic ride. 

Jake: Is it? 

Lance: Yeah. Man. But that's Virginia, North Carolina.

Lance: Yeah, yeah. 

Matt: That was my old drive to college. Oh, yeah. From, from Alabama up and over. There's some different ways you can go. Anyway. 

Lance: That 

Matt: road's gorgeous. 

Jake: Yeah. Anyway. All right, enough from me. Cham Valley. Sports. 

Matt: Cham. Oh, yeah. 

Jake: Camp here. All right, no time for that. Let's 

Matt: go. We're, like, an hour in. Can't hear.

Matt: We're an hour in, we haven't even gotten started. 

Lance: Sports. I wanna talk about- Sports ... sports. Uh, three different things. Just so we know, the Banana Belt Road Race, the elite race, uh, came down to a, a field sprint as well. There wasn't a breakaway. And, uh, Max Ritzau won. He beat Zach Kovacevic- Oh ... who you raced last night.

Lance: And the reason he beat him, 'cause Zach is definitely a faster sprinter than Max is, but Max, um, he just floated all the way to the yellow line so that... And, and Kovacevic was trying to come around his left side, so Kova- Boxed him out ... just boxed him out. Yeah. Nice. It, it was, it was a fair move. It was- Sure.

Lance: clean. Mm-hmm. If, if Zach wanted to cross the yellow line to sprint around him, he could have, but he would've been DQ'd for- Yeah ... crossing sprint, wearing the line, and Max played his card right. So, kind of- Good man ... interesting. 

Jake: So with, when you're in the sprint, though, you're not allowed to deviate from your line.

Lance: Yeah, it's just, it's just a gradual sliding over is 

Jake: okay. So Zach could've gone to the right just the same? 

Lance: He was already halfway. 

Jake: Oh, he was already committed. 

Lance: He was already committed. Mm-hmm. 

Jake: Hmm. 

Lance: I don't know. And it was, you know, it was the last, like- two and a half seconds or something, right? 

Jake: I was under the impression that you're, you're strictly held to holding your line.

Jake: I don't- Yeah ... unless it was just super, like, gentle, but I don't know. 

Lance: Yeah. And somebody, um, who, who told me, um, Chuck Kenlin, the, the executive director of OBRA, he came up to me at the beginning of the race to say, "Hey, somebody looked at your Sasquatch Duro video and s- and, and chopped it up and sent it to me saying, 'Hey, this guy crossed the center line right here, and this guy weaved through the whole, um, neutral rollout in between people on the, on the gravel, you know, in the middle of people.'"

Lance: Through skate parks. He's like, "This guy needs to be DQ'd." And Chuck just laughed at him. He's like, "No, we actually had... There was two flaggers where I crossed the line because there was a spot that we could cross the line, 'cause we were taking- Yeah ... a right turn onto a different road." Anyway, so. 

Jake: That's funny that somebody went to the- 

Lance: Somebody went to the trouble to chop up my video and send it to Chuck.

Lance: Make some 

Jake: friends, Lance Hepler. 

Lance: People don't like me. Okay. Uh, let's get onto something way more interesting. We had Paris-Roubaix. 

Matt: Oh, Paris-Roubaix. 

Lance: Paris-Roubaix, this last weekend, was one of the best races I've ever watched. It was fantastic. There was mayhem everywhere. There was, amongst the three podium finishers, there were seven flat tires amongst those three podium finishers.

Lance: So everybody had flat issues. Wout had flat issues. Tadej had flat issues. Um, uh, Van der Poel had a disaster flat that really bit him in the butt, and he lost a couple minutes and never quite got back. Do 

Matt: you think that this was, like, um, do you think there was, like, people that were putting stuff out on the road for flats?

Lance: No. No, it 

Ian: was none of that. No, what it, what it is, is they're, they're pushing the limits and running those- 

Matt: Super low ... 

Ian: tubular, uh- Innertubes ... tubeless tires- Tubeless tires ... um, as- Are they putting innertubes in there? ... as low a pressure as they can get a- away with. And what's happening is they're burping air out of the sidewall.

Lance: Correct. Because- Yeah ... of the speed that they're going. Yeah. Yeah. This is 165-mile race. They averaged 30.5 miles an hour. 

Matt: Ooh. And that's, like- 

Lance: That's- ... 

Matt: over cobbles. 

Lance: That, over cobbles. Ugh. So they're doing- When these- ... these cobble sections- Cobble sections, yeah ... over 30 miles an hour. 

Matt: Ugh. 

Lance: So if you're doing a cobble section over 30 miles an hour and you're not on the front and can pick your line, somebody's gonna get a flat tire.

Lance: It's exactly what happened to Wout. No, pardon, that's exactly what happened to Van der Poel. Wout got let out to be get, to get into the Arenberg Forest, which is one of the trickier, rougher sections. Van der Poel is right on his wheel, and Van der Poel gets a flat that goes disaster for him because no team cars can go- Right

Lance: through the Arenberg Forest. You can't switch. Oh. Y- y- you can't get people through there. He switched bikes with Philipsen, and then he couldn't clip into Philipsen's pedals, and then he kind of gave up and walked back. And then, who was it? Tibor Delgrosso gave him his front wheel, and he got back on and got going, but he'd lost two and a half minutes.

Lance: And he flatted again before- Yeah ... the end, which means he was just pressing again as hard as he could go. Mm. So all the flat issues, I think, had to do with the speed and the burping of- Yeah ... tubeless tires. Tube- tubeless tires. Yeah. 

Matt: They're gonna come up with some special extra glue on there or 

Ian: something.

Ian: They're, they're experimenting with, uh... A lot of the teams are putting, like, silicon, um, adhesive- Trying to- ... trying to seal that. 

Lance: Trying to glue on your- 

Ian: Gluing- ... tubeless tires ... gluing tubeless tires on. Sometimes with, with- 

Matt: I mean, if 

Ian: you think about it- ... tubular glue, right, they're using? 

Matt: But if you think about it, like, you're- Yeah

Matt: if you have a problem, it's not like you're on the road and you can just... Like, you're not fixing it yourself. You've got, you know, s- so if you have to change out the entire wheel, that's not a big deal for those guys. No, that's right. For us, it's totally different. Like, this is not the solution for us. No, no, it's not.

Matt: But, like, they're either switching bikes most likely, or- And it's 

Lance: still, like, s- 

Ian: But the, the team cars are so far behind them on those- 

Matt: Mm ... 

Ian: cobbled sectors. Interesting. That- 

Lance: Yeah, it makes, it- It is a big deal ... makes it trickier because there are a couple cobbled sections that bike- that cars can't go through.

Lance: Yeah. No cars can go through, just, you know, j- j- just a few of the, like, support- Mm ... like, neutral support vehicles will, they'll allow through. 

Matt: And Pogacar had, like- I heard that- Pogacar had, like, a dozen flats as well. Pogacar 

Lance: had- Not a dozen, but you know what I mean ... he had two different flats, uh, one where he got on a neutral Shimano bike- Yes

Lance: and rode it for 5K and then switched to a teammate's bike and then switched to his own bike and then got another flat later on. Yeah. 

Ian: And then I heard the, the, the tire manufacturers are telling them not to put inserts in there, and i- in s- in a lot of cases, not to put sealant in there, either. What? Weird, huh?

Ian: Yeah. No, it 

Lance: doesn't fricking work without sealant. 

Ian: It, well- You, you're more at a risk of- On a hookless rim, 

Lance: it doesn't work. You're way more 

Ian: at risk 

Lance: of a burn ... 

Ian: yeah. Anyway, that's what I, so. 

Lance: Yeah, so regardless, it ended up being- It was good ... a great race. Wout and Tadej get away at the very end. The two of them are swapping poles, although Tadej was doing most of the work, and what we all wanted, and what Jake actually called last week- Yes, 

Matt: I was gonna call that out.

Matt: Yeah ... was 

Lance: Wout beats Tadej in a sprint, which was just... I, I, I broke into tears watching it. I think it was, like, it was so emotional to see- Yeah ... Wout actually finally come around. He, he has... It's been a 

Matt: while. 

Lance: It, you know, it's been a while since he had won a race, and for him to finally win a... I mean, the two races he really wants to win in his entire career is Tour of Flanders and, and Paris-Roubaix.

Lance: And he's finally won Paris-Roubaix, and he's, he's lost Tour of Flanders by, like, three inches to Van der Poel a couple years ago. So he's come very close, so watching that race was just fantastic. So. 

Matt: Yeah. Good job, Jake. What did you win? 

Jake: Oh, a pat on the back and, yeah. 

Lance: You get a pat on 

Jake: the back. 

Matt: Shiny Waterloo.

Jake: I think if you just say Wout's gonna win every single race, Van der's gonna run, win, run one of them. He's, right. It's 

Lance: like the clock 

Jake: being 

Lance: right. He did. It was so awesome. Watch 

Jake: one kind of... 

Lance: Yeah. So racing was really good. It was, that was an exciting race to watch. Watching the la- y- watching the last, like, two hours is, like, worth it- Mm-hmm

Lance: to, to see all the drama that happens 

Ian: and- And then how iconic, you know, like, the, the world champion and Wout van Aert on a two-up sprint. On a two-up 

Lance: sprint. 

Matt: Yep. 

Ian: In the velodrome. Yeah. Amazing. 

Lance: And Wout takes him, so 

Matt: that was really exciting. Well, I mean, he's gotta be the favorite, plus I think he was on Pogačar's wheel.

Matt: I can't remember how that went. No, no, no. Was it- 

Ian: Yeah, Pogačar was- 

Lance: So- ... 

Ian: in front ... 

Lance: in one of the final- I know they went back and forth ... in one of the final, um, one of the final cobble sections, there, there's no hill for Pogačar to drop everybody on- Right ... at Roubaix. And in one of the final cobble sections, um, Tadej attacked to try...

Lance: They were in a group of three. It was him and w- and Wout, and I think, was it, was it Mads? Was it Mads Pedersen? Pedersen. Mm, 

Jake: I think so. Yep. 

Lance: I think Mads Pedersen. And, and Tadej attacked, and Wout said that he did 1,300 watts seated to get back onto Tadej's wheel. 

Matt: Whoa. And then you got a f- I think they have, like, 10K of kind of flat stuff 

Lance: afterwards.

Lance: Yes. 

Matt: Something like that. 

Lance: I can't remember. And then, and, and, and you're not gonna catch him on the- No ... regular pavement. And so, so Wout and Tadej got up the road, and they were 30 seconds up the road. They ended up only winning by, like, 15 seconds because they were- Yeah, 'cause they're gaming ... they're gaming a little bit at the end.

Lance: Yeah. And, um, Jasper Stuyven, I think, ended up third. Oh, really? Okay. And Van der Poel ended up fourth. He- I think I saw that ... he got all the way back to fourth after losing two and a half minutes with- Yeah ... with 100K to go. Oh, my gosh. I mean Fantastic race, great race, super exciting. There's, uh, another, um, monument coming up this Sunday, which is, uh, Liege-Bastogne-Liege.

Lance: Okay. Uh, Fleche, La Fleche Wallone- Fleche Wallone tomorrow ... is tomorrow on Wednesday, and so, um, it should be interesting, so. We 

Ian: had Amstel Gold 

Lance: this last weekend. We had Amstel Gold. Amstel Gold. And, um, um, who, uh- Evenepoel ... Remco- Remco, 

Matt: yes ... 

Lance: kind of easily won it. It 

Matt: looked pretty... It was him and one other person at the end, 

Lance: and- It, it was, it was him and, um, Skjelmose who, who beat Remco and Tadej in a sprint last year at the end- Oh, okay

Lance: of, of Amstel Gold. And, but he had no legs this time- Yeah ... 'cause, 'cause Remco was just hammering. So Remco- And it looked like it 

Matt: was those two for a while. 

Lance: Yeah, they were off the front together for quite a while. There's enough- Yeah ... climbing in that race that it's tricky. One more 

Matt: monument, one more. 

Lance: There's 

Matt: six.

Lance: Uh, there's one more classic monument until Il... So this Sunday, which is Liege-Bastogne-Liege, until Il Lombardia, which is in September or something like that. Okay. It's, uh, it's in Italy in the end of the year. 

Matt: Okay. 

Lance: So it should be interesting. So that was great racing. 

Matt: Do we know who's racing Liege-Bastogne-Liege?

Lance: Um, Tadej's doing it. 

Matt: Oh, is he? Okay. 

Lance: Yeah. There's a little bit more climbing in it. I believe- 

Matt: Pidcock's doing it. 

Lance: Pidcock is back- Oh, okay ... after messing up his knee in Tour of Basque Country or whatever race- Yeah ... he was doing that he crashed on. Or Flanders, 

Matt: yeah. 

Lance: Um, yeah, so it should be interesting to see what happens with Liege-Bastogne-Liege, so that should be a fun race to watch.

Lance: Cool. Um, the other thing was we had the Lifetime Grand Prix. We had Sea Otter. We had the inaugural race in the Lifetime Grand Prix series, which was the 90-mile gravel race, um- Mm ... at, at Sea Otter down in Monterey, California. 

Jake: That's notoriously been... No, they did gravel there last year. 

Lance: They did gravel last year.

Lance: Two years before that, they did the mountain bike- Mountain bike ... race. So. And so they've switched it to the gravel race. 

Jake: Gravel. So it's just gravel. Well, I'm sure they have mountain bike races 

Lance: still. Yeah, the gravel, the mountain bike race still happened. But that 

Jake: was a part of the, the Lifetime Grand Prix was you had to do some mountain bike races in there, too?

Lance: Yes. 

Jake: Is it all gravel now? 

Lance: No, no, no. Um, Leadville is a, well, it's kind of- Still 

Jake: technically 

Lance: a mountain bike race, yeah ... and, and Little Sugar is a legit mountain bike race. All right. So there's five races in the Lifetime Grand Prix, and two of... Well, um, Chequamegon is also a mountain bike race. There's three mountain bike races and three gravel races- All right.

Matt: Okay ... 

Lance: in the Lifetime Grand Prix. So, uh- Were there 

Matt: heavy hitters in this one? 

Lance: Yeah. Uh, yeah, ev- every- Everyone. Yeah ... every major gravel racer- Because- ... in the US and half the world was at this race ... you 

Matt: gotta wanna see where you're, where you are for the series while you, if you don't start it, you don't start the series, you obviously can't have a chance in the 

Lance: series.

Lance: Yes, correct. 

Matt: So. 

Lance: You have, you have one, like, giveaway race. So how'd it 

Matt: go? So, 

Lance: um, it, it, two, two guys got away at the very end, uh, Keegan Swenson and, um, Braden Lang. 

Matt: Okay. 

Lance: Braden Lang actually grew up in Camas- Camas ... Washington. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lance: He was a motorbike racer with his parents. His parents was a motorbike racer.

Matt: Wow. 

Lance: And so he doesn't race motorbikes anymore. He's so good on a mountain bike and a gravel bike that he's got legit contracts. Uh, came down to a two-up sprint, and Braden Lang did a just fantastic motocross m- move in the very last corner and was able to out-sprint Keegan. So Braden Lang wins. Wow. Wow.

Jake: Was Cam 

Lance: Jones 

Jake: there? So 

Lance: Cam Jones was there. Um, he, he ended up 20th. Hmm. He was, like, seven minutes back. He did not have a mechanical or a, an issue. He just didn't have- 

Jake: Wasn't his day ... 

Lance: the legs, like, but- 

Jake: Didn't he go out, like... I don't know. Was it- He 

Lance: was on the front at the very beginning. 

Jake: Yeah. He just did another, like, fastest known time, I don't know if it was on Strava or not.

Jake: Was it the White- 

Lance: White Rim Trail. Yeah. And he beat Keegan's time by a five full minutes. It- 

Jake: Whoa ... it's 100-mile route, but still that's substantial. 

Lance: Yeah. It's a, it's a legit, uh, it's a legit, uh, JF, KFT, fastest known time, FKT. I don't know what I'm saying 

Jake: anymore. Yeah, 

Lance: FKT. Yeah. So yeah, the men's race was super exciting.

Lance: Um, the women's race was also super exciting. Um, it came down to a final sprint with that, and, uh, Sofia Gomez Villafane, Keegan's wife now- Mm-hmm ... uh, she ended up out-sprinting Lauren Stephens, who, Lauren Stephens attended the Dialed Cycling training camp in Tucson- Yeah ... this year with us. 

Matt: Wow. 

Lance: So, uh, Lauren Stephens ended up taking second, and, uh, the biggest news for Dialed Cycling at Life Time Sea Otter is our own Kylie Hannal raced in the elite women's field as a U23 in a Dialed Cycling kit.

Matt: Nice. 

Lance: And, uh, she ended up 20th- Wow ... overall out of, like, the 50 women who were in the race, and was the first U23, so she's now leading the Life Time Grand Prix Fitness U23 series. Wow. That's cool. So. 

Jake: Top of the sto- Yeah ... the podium, and was on, um, Life Time Fitness's Instagram page too. I mean, she got a picture of herself up there.

Jake: That's- 

Lance: Yes ... that's- It's, it's pretty f- it's pretty phenomenal, so we're all super happy. Where is she, where is she 

Matt: training? 

Lance: She's been here in Portland Just here? Yep. 

Matt: Okay. 

Lance: Yeah. She's been training here in Portland, so... And she's, she is on Lauren Stephens's, um, professional- Right, I think ... road team. Yeah

Lance: women's road team, and they just did Tour of Redlands, and Lauren Stephens won, and they won the team classification. They're doing two of the Gila, another big road race. Uh, so they're, there's, they're, she is doing some road races- That's cool ... with the team, too, so she's doing fantastic. Crushing it. Super proud of Kat.

Lance: Hmm. Fantastic racing. That's awesome. Lots of stuff happened. Champ out. 

Matt: Champ 

EPO Chain Mail: out. 

Matt: Thanks, champ. 

EPO Chain Mail: What? I'm dealing with nothing but my own blood, sweat, and tears, and extra blood. 

EPO Chain Mail: People dope. Yeah. You know, this is a sport with literally hundreds of dollars on the line and dozens of fans. The stakes are medium.

EPO Chain Mail: Come on. How do you beat a man on drugs if you're not on drugs? 

EPO Chain Mail: Wait, did you just admit to being on drugs? The EPO chain mail. Send us a text with your questions, forward this podcast to 15 people, and you'll lose 10 pounds overnight without even trying. You've got mail. 

Jake: We've got some mail, guys. 

EPO Chain Mail: All right.

Jake: Yay. Got a couple. Uh, we're supposed to have people submit questions. There, there was some feedback here in, in a couple of these, but I dunno. This one starts with some feedback and then a question of, "What?" It was awesome. Wout outsprints Tadeya at Paris-Roubaix. What? I love hearing that. Yeah, that was great.

Jake: That was from, uh, from Connecticut there. Um, yeah, that was pretty cool. Someone was watching it and like, damn it, I wish we would've gotten the podcast out earlier- ... if I didn't have this whole flight thing, and I could have, like, you know, people could have seen that I called Wout to win, but, you know. It, 

Lance: it really was so exciting to watch.

Lance: It was, I mean, I'm, my whole family had ended up coming into the room where I was watching the race, and I was screaming at the TV once, when they hit the velodrome. Same. Because I'm, you know, you see him, go around him with a half lap on the Velodrome to go, and I'm just like, "Come on, Wout." Yeah. "

Ian: Come on, Wout."

Ian: Did you see some of the, uh, stuff on Instagram, like people in bars, people in stadiums even- Yes ... like this. The, the whole country was like, "No!" 

Lance: There was a, there was a soccer game, a football game- Yeah ... in Belgium, and they had finished the game. Uh, the, the game was over, and half the crowd stayed because they put up Paris-Roubaix showing Wout, you know, and they, and half the crowd stayed to watch the race.

Lance: It was, yeah, it was super exciting. 

Jake: Yeah, pretty awesome. Um, you know what? I, I don't think I'm gonna read the next one. I think I'm gonna let Lance read the next one because- Oh, no ... I don't know, you might want to read this. Let's see here. Lance, what you got? Where's it from, first and foremost? 

Lance: Uh, this is from Joplin, Missouri.

Lance: So from Missouri. Oh my gosh. Uh, "Lol, Lance saying Coach Cat underestimates his ability to train is an all-time Lance thing to say." "He seems to overtrain/race pretty often." Yeah, I agree with that. Any of you guys, aside from Lance, disagree? "P.S. If you tell Coach Cat what's going on outside of the bike stats, it will make solid adjustments.

Lance: Lance might not like that the load is too little, but I'm pretty sure he'll get similar advice from a human coach." Yeah, that's all. I've 

Ian: been telling him. Actually, to be fair, I tend to- To be fair? To be fair- ... I sent Lance a text yesterday. I'm like, "Are you gonna come to PIR?" And he, he said, "I need a rest day."

Ian: So good for him. He did. Good for him. 

Lance: I could have... I, my legs felt good enough that I coulda come and done the race, and I specifically chose not to. 

Matt: And for his rest day, he went out, he did 75 miles- ... and he took, and he took down seven KOMs. 

Lance: I did not step over a bike. No, that's not true. I rode, I rode 

Matt: down 

Lance: to the mailbox to pick up the mail and back.

Matt: There you go. That's 

Lance: it. 

Matt: And then what's the KOM for that? 

Ian: No, but it, it's, it's true, right? Uh, it's, it's one of the fou- founding principles of training is you make the adaptations, you, your body adapts during periods of rest. You, you can't just keep training. You have to- 

Lance: That's correct ... 

Ian: you have to give your body a chance to do the things.

Lance: And I'm fully aware of that, and I think it's kind of my brand now that - It's my brand ... that what I do is, is do too much. So I guess that's 

Ian: what I'm gonna do. But it is, uh, for somebody like you that races all the time, uh, it is a difficult balance to strike, right? Because, I, I mean, for a lot of athletes, they train specifically for three or four key events during the year, and it's so much easier to have a structured plan in place and, and h- and, and create those, um, rest weeks, and those rest days, and those easier times in there.

Lance: Right. 

Ian: When you're racing all the time like you do, it's- Yeah, 

Lance: it's hard to get those adaptations ... 

Ian: yeah. I mean, you basically should, you're on maintenance training all year almost. That's true. 

Lance: So. 

Ian: Yeah. All 

Jake: right. 

Lance: Yeah. 

Ian: Bet. 

Lance: Yeah, point taken. Awesome. Am I gonna change? Probably not. 

Jake: Yeah. Well, we do thank everybody for the, uh, the couple little feedbacks- Thank you

Jake: questions, whatever you wanna call those. And if you wanna send one yourself, uh, we would absolutely encourage you to do so. Just use the little texting option to send us a message through your, I guess, your, the, whatever it is that you use, your player. Would that be what it is? 

Lance: Yep. 

Jake: Um, and we will Run through that next time we have one of these.

Jake: Who knows when that's gonna be, but soon, sooner than later. All right, let's move on. Uh, we've got a topic. We, we kinda covered this a little bit, but I still think it's a good question, and there's some little elements there that we could probably dig into a little bit more. But Ian proposed this, um, because he's an older cyclist.

Ian: I am. 

Jake: He, he tried to pull us all into that- 'Cause I'm losing it ... that, that, that, um, age category. But anyway, he wants to know- ... like what ambitions do we have that we still have left to tick off in our, like, to-do list of, of cycling. So, like, you know, places and events and accomplishments. And, like, what are some things that you've done that you would absolutely recommend somebody else put on their list?

Lance: Why all three of you just look straight at me? 

Jake: Because you don't stop, dude. It's like, oh- You don't stop. Yeah. There's a song behind it. Yeah. Lance checks off bucket list stuff constantly, and- 

Lance: I, I am checking that stuff 

Jake: off all the time ... I, and I have to flip him off all the time- ... because every time I see, like, a video or a post or s- a Strava whatever, I'm like, "Damn it, I have to put another thing on my list, and I can't even fricking ride a bike right now."

Jake: But I don't 

Lance: know. One of these 

Jake: days. 

Lance: You know, when I think about it, there, there, there is an event that I haven't done yet that I, I would like to be a part of somehow, and that's Leadville. Leadville has a whole- Yeah ... lot of history. Um, it is an extremely difficult race. I don't, I don't know- Yeah, because 

Ian: of the altitude, right?

Lance: It's a, it's a- Yeah ... as much as anything ... 100-mile race at over 10,000 feet. And so that's just- Starting 

Matt: at 

Lance: over ... starting at 10,000 feet. Yeah. Going up to, like, 12,800 or something. The town 

Matt: of Leadville is at 10. Yes. Y- I think you could be okay. Like, you handle altitude pretty well. 

Lance: I don't do eight-hour races very well.

Matt: No, you don't. 

Jake: No. That's, that's a strange- You don't ... beast because before I moved to Camus, I had actually quite a few friends that would do that often, and there were some guys that were super talented, like, just wicked fast, and would crush on everything, train. They would do, like, like, everything that they could to get ready.

Jake: They would go there, and they would just completely fall apart because of the altitude. Yeah. They just could not. And they would even go out there ahead of time to try and acclimate. Yeah. Mm. Couldn't get it done. It's hard. And then there's some other people that were unassuming that would go out there and be rock stars and get themselves a belt buckle.

Jake: I'm like, how is it so- 

Lance: That's body, that's body chemistry- Yeah ... that you d- you don't really get to change yourself very much. 

Matt: Sure. Yeah. But I, but, but what about, like, not trying to kill the race and just be like, "I'm here to cruise, and-" I don't 

Lance: understand any of those words 

Matt: you just said. Okay, you're right.

Matt: You're right. I don't know. Uh, I, I thought I was talking to someone else. My bad. My bad. I 

Jake: think Matt was using the restroom when we had our last, uh- 

Matt: Yeah ... 

Jake: EPO question come through, but. 

Matt: I know. I figure I know where that question is going, so. 

Ian: I think that the, um, the thoughts on Adapting to altitude is either you give yourself a lot of time to adapt to the altitude- Yeah.

Ian: Mm ... or you just get off the plane and do it. Yep. Because the first- That's exactly ... few days after you get, arrive- Yeah ... at altitude, you're actually deteriorating every day. Yeah. You're getting worse. 

Matt: It's, that's that, like, sweet spot. Like, the worst- Yeah ... time is, like, two or three days after- Yes ... you get off the plane.

Matt: Yeah. 

Ian: Yeah. That's exactly right. So, unless you've got a good two weeks to acclimate, then- Yeah ... you're best to just get there and do it. 

Lance: But as far as big events- Yeah ... that's really the only one that I would really like, 

Ian: like to- What about destinations? 

Matt: We've talked about this before- Destinations are very different

Matt: on the podcast. We've talked about going and finding some of the classic climbs in the Tour and stuff like that. 

Lance: Yeah. Um, there's, there's like three different rides or areas that I have never been that I would really like to ride, and that is the French Alps. Yeah. I would like to ride in the French Alps.

Lance: Mm. There's so many good things there. Um, it's Tuscany. Yeah. Which is central Italy, basically, all the rolling gravel hills of Tuscany. Mm. And, um, Hurricane Ridge in the P- Olympic Peninsula. I've never ridden that, and that's only three hours from here. Oh, wow. Oh, yeah. And I'm gonna do that someday. I was gonna say, that sounds good.

Lance: That's, that's, that's attainable. 

Matt: That is 

Lance: attainable. But I haven't ridden that either, so those are three of the things. But, like, the other big national events, I- I've done a lot that I've wanna do. I haven't been to Big Sugar. Um, I haven't, but I've ridden a lot of the roads and trails around Bentonville.

Lance: It's in Bentonville, Arkansas, but I haven't been to the events that are in Bentonville. 

Matt: Do you feel like you wanna go to the event, or are you cool with having seen the roads? 

Lance: It's cool to be a part of something big- 

Matt: Sure ... 

Lance: like that, just like it'd be cool to be at Sea Otter. I've never actually gone to Sea Otter either, and so, but, um- 

Matt: But we've talked about this, where we're like, "Oh, we need- We've talked about that

Matt: to go to Sea Otter," because there's also, like, a big, like, tech scene to the- 

Lance: There is ... 

Matt: which is kinda cool. 

Lance: Everybody, every bike vendor- 

Matt: It is the new- ... is there ... it is the new, um- 

Lance: It's the new, um, 

Matt: what is it? I don't know. I was gonna say CES, but I don't... It's, CES is the Consumer Electronics Show. What was 

Lance: the- 

Matt: But it's, like, 

Lance: the- It, what was the show that was in Vegas every year- 

Matt: Yeah, no one knows anymore

Matt: in the fall? They, we, we don't even remember. At 

Lance: Cannondale. Interbike? It's 

Matt: gone. 

Lance: Interbike. Yeah, it's gone. 

Matt: It's- 

Lance: Yeah, Sea Otter- It's dead ... is the new Interbike. It's dead to 

Matt: us. 

Lance: Yeah, for sure. 

Matt: Anyway. 

Lance: What about, what about you, Ian? 

Ian: Who? Yeah, well, I, I, I thought about this question because we are, we you guys are not as old as I am, but I mean, we've, we've been- We're old

Ian: around enough to have at least ticked off some of our ambitions as cyclists, right? But there's gotta be some that remain. I mean, in my case, I guess, competition-wise, I, I'm really not interested in these super long en- endurance events, like 200 miles. Like, Audax would be- Mm-hmm ... cool to say, "Pft! Done that.

Ian: I achieved this." But I don't, I don't like to suffer for that lon- Long. Um- 

Lance: Like 

Ian: Unbound ... and, and Seattle to Portland, you know, things like that, I, I, I don't have ambition to do that. And Unbound equally so, I g- I guess. 

Lance: But- The, the vibe around the race- Yeah ... the town, Emporia, the- 

Ian: Yeah ... the 

Lance: people, 

Ian: all that stuff- It would be a good experience

Ian: is, 

Lance: is off the chart at Unbound. The race sucks. 

Ian: The race sucks. Um, still left to do, I did go to, uh, Nationals Road Race Championships a few years ago down in Albuquerque, New Mexico. I would, I guess if there was one competition I'd still like to do, it would be go back to that- Mm-hmm ... m- on a course that suited me well.

Ian: Yeah, yeah. I think, you know, they split that thing, um, up into five year age groups, so I, I, I would, would belong there. I wouldn't be out of my depth. And, uh, I feel like I... That'd be cool. It's a fantastic a- atmosphere as well. Like you said, it's- Cool ... it's just the scale of the event that, uh, yeah, it's like, I don't know.

Ian: It's cool. Hmm. But, um, I don't know. Some of those, um... That's about it competition-wise. I still have places to go, people to meet, things to do. I would love to, like you, I've always had this ambition to go back and knock off the iconic classic climbs in the Alps. Mm-hmm. I've been to the Dolomites, I've done Stelvio, Gavia, all those things on that si- side, but I've never been to the French Alps.

Ian: Love to go do Mont Ventoux, Galibier, um, those kind of rides still on my bucket list. 

Lance: June. Let's go in June. 

Ian: Okay. The thing is, go, you go to the Alps and it's a crap shoot weather-wise. Yeah, yeah. You know, it's not like going to Mallorca. Incidentally, that's, that's gotta be on everybody's bucket list.

Lance: That's the top of my list of places I've ridden. 

Ian: Mallorca's fantastic, but you can kind of rely on it being decent riding. The, you go to the Alps and it's like, ah, spent six months planning for this trip, and it's raining every day, and it's snowing on top of the passes. 

Jake: Yeah. Mm-hmm. I get 

Ian: it. So the Alps would be cool.

Ian: Uh, the Pyrenees as well. Um, Tourmalet. Yeah. Those kind of climbs, love to do that. Yeah. So yeah. That's- Cool. What would I recommend, uh, that I've done to other people? I think you should get into road racing. Hmm. I think if you haven't tried it, you should do it. It, it's, it's just a cool experience. It 

Jake: is. 

Ian: Um, if you have cycled for a long time and you've, you know, you, you've achieved this fitness level, y- you should think to yourself, "I'm gonna, I'm gonna try this road racing thing."

Ian: Just do it once or twice and, and hang in there. I mean, it's, it's, it's exhilarating. Um, it, it's, it's not hard to get involved in it. It's not cost-prohibitive. It's, it's- It's a good experience 

Lance: You're fully engaged in a road race Fully engaged It's not like, you, your mind doesn't drift. You are thinking- It's a way-

Lance: about the wheel ahead of you. 

Ian: Yeah ... you're testing yourself, but not in a way like if you did Seattle to Portland, you know, like these big, "Oh, can I endure this massive event?" It's, it's speed based. It's like, "I'm gonna hang on. I'm gonna handle my bike, handle myself, be tactically- 

Jake: Mm-hmm ... 

Ian: uh, wise." You know, all of these things go in there, and it's an in- intense experience.

Ian: Some of these races only last an hour, you know? Mm-hmm. And y- you can handle that for an hour. Just, just do it once. It's fun. 

Jake: Yeah. 

Ian: Yeah. 

Jake: I think if I had to answer that question, I just, um, I just wanna be able to get healthy so I can string together a few years- Yeah ... of riding my bike again. Yes. I really wanna be able to get back into my, my race weight.

Jake: I really wanna get back into being able to have the time to go out and train. And then the things that I want on my bucket list again is to go do, like, a stupid flogging ride or a, a fun team gravel ride on a Saturday that's, like, long and fun. I would love that. Um, I don't have any race ambitions right now because I can't even think about that because I can't even go out to train to, to do that, so I don't wanna get ahead of myself.

Jake: I just wanna get the, the, the short and, and achievable things done, and be able to be able to go back out and ride my bike and just- Yeah ... have fun with the team. And eventually know that something will come around where I can put on a number. Um, just to do any bike race with the team would be, like, a big accomplishment for me right now.

Jake: I would love to go back and do Kings Valley Road Race. I'd love to see that back on the, the calendar. Yeah. Barton Park. I would love to see the Silverton race back on the calendar, or the Montanara, or, or any of those races. I d- I, it doesn't have to be some big grandiose thing, just to be able to go out and do that with a team.

Jake: Yeah, 

Ian: because we, we have great memories of that stuff. 

Jake: Oh, yeah Right? Yeah. I mean, I can remember where we showed up to races in numbers, and it looked like a dialed team ride, not a bike race, because we had so many people there, and I'd love to be able to get back to that. That would be fantastic. Mm-hmm.

Jake: Um, there aren't any real events that I, I just absolutely have to. Like, once upon a time, Leadville was huge on my list, and now it's just like, eh, you know? 

Lance: Yeah. 

Jake: It'd be kinda cool, but I can't even fathom, like, training for that right now, 'cause, like, where would I fit that in even if I was 100% healthy, just to get the, the fitness to get out there?

Jake: But life will slow down a little bit, and I'll, I'll get caught up there. But there is one thing that I did kind of map out, and I came up with a name for it, and I started coming up with chunks, and I called it PTSD. It was Portland to San Diego. It's the whole acronym thing. Oh. W- which would be kind of fun, and something like that sounds more fun to me.

Jake: Not necessarily, like, racing it or seeing how fast you can do it, but just kinda having, like, it mapped out. Like, over the, I think it was over a course of 10 days, I built- Mm-hmm ... 10 different routes and, you know, just like, all right, this is how it's gonna play out. Some days are a little bit longer, some days a little bit shorter, and seeing some cool stuff.

Jake: Something like that to me would be more fulfilling than actually going to a race, and just having it be self-supported or having a, a, you know, a, a spouse or some friends with a van. Oh, Brandy would 

Lance: follow us in the van- 

Jake: Yeah ... in a heartbeat. I, like, how awesome would that be? Like, not tell anybody, just go do it, and, like, you see on Strava, like- That's weird.

Jake: They rode, like, 115, 20 miles south from... But they didn't come back? And then the next day you see, like, the next point to point, and like, oh, that's kinda cool. 

Ian: That'd be great. 

Jake: Yeah. That would be great. I've followed along with people that have done that kinda stuff before going across the country. I'm like, that's actually pretty cool, and then they were like, you know, vlogging it and just kinda giving their, you know, personal experiences and seeing the stuff that they accomplished.

Jake: I'm like, something like that sounds more fun to me right now than anything. Just wanna be able to get back to doing that. 

Ian: I love the sound of that. What is, what, what's something you've done in the past that you'd, you would highly recommend other people to do? I remember you did the, you, you did some charity rides down there in Southern California, right?

Ian: In- Uh, 

Jake: yeah. That's not- The BikeMS ... really, like... Yeah, it's just the BikeMS. I mean, it's 100 miles the first day- Ah ... and 50 miles the second day. Gotcha. It's more of just a fundraiser thing. Like, usually would be able to raise, to support the MS society, anywhere from, like, 2 to $5,000. Mm. Just me personally, and then started putting together groups of people, and our groups would raise about that much money themselves, and ended up being a pretty sizable amount of money.

Jake: Yeah. For a couple years, though, they did make it fun, and it's a beautiful place to ride. I mean, you start- Yeah ... in, um, Irvine, California, and go all the way over to Newport Beach, and then you really just ride down the coast. Like, from Newport all the way down into, um, Encinitas, and then you went back up into the hills of, like, San Marcos and whatnot, and then you came back up into Carlsbad and finished, and that was day one.

Jake: There, that's a tough route to beat. Wow. And they've got rest stations all along the way that you can stop and get fuel and food and entertainment, which was fun. And for a couple years they did have a, um, a Strava KOM challenge that they threw in there, two different KOM segments- Mm-hmm ... for each of the days, the, the two days.

Jake: And they had, like, a couple different sponsors, but I, I think it was Performance Bicycle that was sponsoring it. And I, it was like, you would get a gift card for each one of the things you won. I think it was, like, $150- Oh, that's cool ... gift card for the KOM for the, that day. And for the four, or the two years that I did it in the four segments, I won all four of them, so.

Jake: Oh my gosh, dude. I ended up getting, like, 600 bucks in, like, uh, Performance things over the course of two years, and then they stopped doing it. But it was kinda fun. Well, '

Matt: cause I don't think Performance Bikes exists anymore. 

Jake: They do. They're just online, though. 

Matt: They, they're just online? 

Jake: Yeah. Ah, okay. 

Ian: I worked at Performance Bikes in- Did you?

Ian: in Boulder, Colorado for a while, yeah. Oh, there 

Jake: you go. Oh, that's super 

Matt: cool. 

Jake: But that was fun. But, um, you know, it, just to go back and do STP, I know that you, like, I don't wanna do a 205 mile bike. That's a fun ride to do if you go out there with friends. Yeah. Yeah. And, and you share the work, and you have the right people out there, and you just wanna go and go fast.

Jake: Yeah. Well, how about you, Matt? 

Matt: I think if, so I, I like all of your ideas. Stealing them. They're all mine now. But, uh, the, even, like, Jake's, like, STP, like, we did that, we had fun, we went hard, but, like, I also think it would be really cool to do that and do it two-day and just, like, totally slack, like, the whole time.

Matt: I've thought about this a lot because it's like, um, you know, I raced Ironmans really hard. Like, n- none of them were easy. Like, I pushed hard on them, like, for pace, and I always thought, like, it'd be really fun to go in and just cruise, like, cruise one with, like- Right ... no ambitions- Mm-hmm ... of being like- Just experience it

Matt: we're gonna hammer. Yeah. Like, you'd be able to see more and just see the crowd and high-five people, as opposed to being like, "I've gotta be down in the aero bars," like, looking as, up as little as possible- Right ... because that's safe. You know, I mean, I think that, um, the, you know, STP is the perfect example where it's like, you know, we were like, "Let's see how fast we can go.

Matt: We can..." You know, I think we're aiming, and, you know, do it all one day, which was cool. Yeah. But, like, I also think, like, t- doing it in two days would be more fun, potentially. Jump on the party 

Jake: bus, yeah. 

Matt: And you could do it on... Like, you see, like, kids doing it. Sure. Like, you just see, like, families doing it, and I'm like, "Oh- Yeah

Matt: they're doing it right." Like, we're hammering. Switch 

Jake: up the bike, too. 

Matt: Yeah, for sure. Like, switch up the bike. Like, you could do anything. Like, you could probably ride an e-bike, like, and just do it. Probably. Like, I don't know what the rules are, but, like, it just seems like such a cool, like, event, and the camping part of it looks cool.

Matt: Mm-hmm. Or I know some people just stay in a hotel or whatever, like Centralia area or whatever, but, like, I feel like that's gonna be a party atmosphere. So maybe more stuff like that would be the stuff that I would look forward to doing. Also always wanted to do some bikepacking. I don't think we ever talked about bikepacking on this podcast.

Matt: Yeah, 

Jake: that- But- I'd, I'd be in on that ... 

Matt: I'm curious. I'm just curious about it. I don't think I'm gonna like it. 

Jake: Yeah, 

Matt: I- But, like, I haven't tried it. 

Jake: I have to be at a place where there's plenty of trees, because I can't sleep on the ground. I would need to be able to put up a hammock. Put a hammock up. I absolute, 100% need to- Which, 

Matt: which would pack well.

Jake: It does, 'cause there, you know, I've got a couple. They're just really small and lightweight. 

Matt: Yeah. Anyway. So. So that's something that I've always been curious about, like, just, like, bike for a long time. Maybe it's not even that long. Yeah. Maybe you bike for, like, five hours and then you're like, "And now we set up camp and just chill."

Jake: We've got a group of people on our team that did, um- That are into it? ... the inaugural bike camping trip last year. I think they stayed two nights out- Yep ... if I'm not mistaken. Right. And they, they covered a pretty big chunk of area. Yeah. And they're doing it again this year. They're already planning for it, and I think more people are gonna join them.

Jake: That's cool. They had a blast. 

Matt: Did they? 

Jake: Yeah. 

Matt: That's cool. So. And I imagine that's- I don't know how hard they go, but I can i- I can imagine that it would be like- Not hard ... I can imagine it would be- Enjoy it ... another same kinda thing where it's just like, "Let's just chill." You know? Yeah. Like, "Let's 

Jake: just cruise."

Jake: I wanna be able to, like, take, like, a little, like, travel size or s- tiny little hiking fishing pole. Mm-hmm. And, like, be able to stop and go catch some trout or something like that. Totally. 

Matt: You know, something 

Jake: like that or 

Matt: just- How cool would that be if you, like, caught enough fish to, like, cook for people- Sure

Matt: the, you know, after everyone stops. Like, I don't know. That stuff sounds really alluring to me. Also, of course, like, catching some of the traditional climbs, um, you know, in the Alps for sure you would, you would... I would think that that would be pretty interesting because I've been there and I've seen some of the climbs, but I haven't actually biked them.

Matt: Hmm. I think that would be fun to do. Uh, so next time we're over that way, I'll probably just rent a bike and just go, like, again, not for time, just go cruise. Just like, "Let's just see how long this takes and maybe stop." Well, you know, they have all these famous turns, right? Like, this turn is named after this person.

Matt: Yeah. Right. Like, I think I would just, like, yeah, I'm gonna stop at every turn and take some photos or something. I don't know. Right. Like, that, that I would enjoy. So that's the kinda stuff that I hope to do in the future. Um, no plans, no plans, so. 

Ian: What, what's something you've done in the past that you would highly recommend somebody else- 

Matt: I think-

Ian: have that same experience? 

Matt: Um, Ironmans are just... So Ironmans are, like, this weird double-edged sword. They're such a cool experience, but they're also... Like, there's a lot... There's almost, like, more I don't like about them than I do- Hmm ... because it's such a corporate, it's a corporate event. It's a very corporate event.

Matt: Yeah. Um, that being said, they're, it's a really neat experience because you're doing this challenging thing, and it has, like, this brand behind it that, like... Again, same thing, double-edged sword to where it's like I'm proud to have an Ironman shirt on, right? Or not, I don't have one on right now, but, like, the, you know, like, it's like, "Oh, I'm proud that I did this thing."

Matt: And people like, Ironman, like, "Oh, wow, you did this?" Yeah. Like, this is a cool thing, um, that I'm proud of. The brand Ironman and the price of the shirt, like, all that stuff is just stupid. Stupid. Like, and I don't like the company, and I don't like all this stuff, so it's kinda like this double-edged sword where I'm like, people should go do this.

Matt: People should train f- You have to train for a block of your life to do it. You shouldn't just be like, "I need to do this, and I'm gonna do it tomorrow." Hmm. But I do think it's like you have to do all these... You have to experience all these different sports. They're not d- really that different, but, like, you know- Yeah

Matt: you need, you need to run, you need to swim. You can't just do it. Um, the biking would come easy for you guys, but it's like one of those things where it's like you do these things, and then you get to go out and play the whole day, and you can try and go hard. Or what I was... Same kind of situation where I was like, "I wish I could do an Ironman and just chill and enjoy the three sports that I like to do."

Matt: I think that's a great experience for that. And, and the big thing is finishing and, you know, and having fun with that. The finish lines are amazing, so. Hmm. Yeah. Hmm. 

Ian: I think I'm getting to a similar point now. You know, like- just go out and enjoy it. Mm-hmm. And stop pushing myself all the time. I just, I feel like, I was talking to my sister about this the other day, it's like I always feel like I'm, if, if I stop training and going hard, it's the beginning of the end, you know?

Ian: Yeah. I have to, I have to keep doing it. And I, and I like the race scene here, you know, it's my whole social life as well, and I get to meet people and hang out. It's all fun, but it, at some point you think, cycling's more than just a performance athletic endeavor, you know? Yeah. There's, there's, there's a time and a place for that, but there's also a time to just chill and enjoy the journey.

Ian: It's 

Jake: called balance. Yeah, balance, 

Ian: yeah. 

Jake: You know, it's like you're not gonna eat, you know, chocolate cake for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, 'cause that's too much chocolate cake, but a slice of chocolate cake- Right ... is just fine, so y- but you need to balance it out with all the others. I think 

Matt: it's easier, though, when you're fit and you're healthy to be like, "Ian, today I'm taking it easy."

Matt: Like, those are- Yeah ... gonna be probably more enjoyable, whereas when I'm, like, not super fit and I'm like, "I'm gonna take it easy," that's 'cause the only thing I can do is, like- ... take it easy. But I also think, like, um, you might have more fun when you're, like, fit. You know, you do the hard workouts, you do some of the hard stuff.

Matt: Sometimes you race, and then sometimes you're like, "This is my fun one and I'm just gonna chill." Mm-hmm. And same thing, you do this sometimes where you're like, "I'm just gonna be a pacer bot for someone," right? Correct. And sometimes those are more fun than anything else. Yep, yep. I'm not 

Lance: sure. 

Ian: Yeah. 

Lance: I do have a whole list here, Ian- Oh

Lance: and I'm just gonna share it with you quickly, of, of stuff that I've done that I think people should consider. Yeah, yeah, good idea. 'Cause I've, I've, I've been some places. You- you've been around. I've been some places. You're... 

Matt: Yes. 

Lance: As far as big events, I think, I think experiencing Unbound is something people should do.

Lance: Um, Oregon Trail Gravel Race, phenomenal experience. Gorgeous, difficult, five-day gravel stage race. That is just phenomenal. Um, Steamboat, uh, Gravel Race- 

Ian: Yes ... 

Lance: also was just a cool thing to be a part of, so another big event. And I think that every road racer should at some point do some big national- Right

Lance: stage road race. 

Matt: Oh, 

Lance: interesting. Like Valley of the Sun, or Tucson Bicycle Classic, or Baker City Cycling Classic, or Tour of the Gila, or Tour of Redlands. If you can get into one of those races and experience what- Yeah. 

EPO Chain Mail: Mm ... 

Lance: what that is- Cool experience ... it's a cool experience. As far as rides, um, if you're a road cyclist, you need to get to Mallorca.

Lance: It's, it's pretty remarkable. Ian and I have been there, uh, we've been to Tenerife three times. Ian's been there four times, and that is also great riding, but the riding in Mallorca was better. 

Matt: Mallorca's better? 

Lance: Okay. Yeah, is, it's better. It's a, it was a, a cooler experience to be in Mallorca. Um, in Colorado, the Colorado National Monument- That, there's a 30-mile loop outside of Grand Junction, Colorado that is phenomenal, that people, if you're driving through, you should stop and ride the Colorado National Monument.

Lance: It's really cool. Hm. There's a ton of great rides also along the Front Range, you know, outside of Denver and Boulder, and a lot of good stuff. But that one sticks out to me because it's a little more unique than- Hm ... what happens over there. The White Rim Trail in Utah, 100-mile mountain bike route, uh, that you can take three or four days to do, or- 

Matt: Just do it

Lance: five and a half hours- ... if you're Cam Jones. 

Matt: Yep. 

Lance: So, the, the scenery on the White Rim Trail is otherworldly. You're not gonna see that stuff almost anywhere else, and you will be alone to do it. It is, it is that gorgeous and beautiful. Similarly to, like, the Porcupine Rim Trail, which is outside... It's also outside of Moab, and that's a lot more accessible than the White Rim Trail is.

Lance: You can do sections of that, and it's just phenomenal. Um, in Arizona, um, Mount Lemmon, climbing Mount Lemmon, descending Mount Lemmon, it's, that's a pretty cool experience. There's great roads up there and whatnot. Riding out to the, uh, the Apache Trail outside of Phoenix, um, out to Tortilla Flats, also stunningly gorgeous.

Lance: These are... J- I'm just trying to go through my list. Uh, Thunder Mountain, a mountain bike route- 

Matt: Yeah ... 

Lance: um, in central Utah near Bryce National Park, unbelievable. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lance: Highway 12 in Utah is a incredibly epic road. It might be the most gorgeous, like, 40-mile road that you could drive or ride a bike on. It is gorgeous.

Lance: It goes from, it, it goes from Boulder. No, it goes from Escalante, from, from Torrey, Utah to Escalante. It is a not very well-used road, but it is stunning. Highway 12. Hm. That's another one that you should do. Uh, Montezuma's Grade outside of Borrego Springs. We've done it as- Mm-hmm ... as- Training camp ... on training camp a couple times, and we've had great experiences at training camp with stuff like that, r- riding up to Julian, California.

Lance: Mm-hmm. Riding up Palomar. Um, you know, some of these great roads, but Montezuma's Grade kinda stands out to me because it was a fricking blast to, to come down. Um, other than that, uh, Crater Lake, riding around Crater Lake- Oh, yeah ... in Oregon. It's, it's a little tricky to get out. Not tricky, but it's, you know, five hours from here.

Lance: It's not, like, really super close, but- I feel 

Matt: like they have it s- closed just for biking, like- 

Lance: There's a- ... twice a year or something ... there's, like, there's a day when- Can't remember when they do it ... the road has been plowed, and they don't allow cars on it yet, that you can- Yep ... that you can ride on, and it is, it, it is fantastic.

Lance: That'd be fun. So. But that's a list of rides just off the top of my head that I like. If I was telling somebody, "Where would you go ride?" I would do one of these rides. Mm. So. 

Jake: Very cool. 

Lance: Anyway. 

Matt: Very cool. That's it. Good, good list. Good list. People will love that. 

Jake: Cool. All right, this is getting a little long in the tooth.

Jake: Let's do some, uh, one last things. Matt, would you like to 

Matt: start us off? Okay. Assuming that this podcast does not come out today- 

Jake: It won't ... 

Matt: uh, the- There's a watch that comes out tomorrow. It is called the COROS PACE 4 Black Crystal Edition. It's got a fancy name. Hm. Uh, so yeah. So that's the next video. And so if you are listening to this, hopefully you're listening to it after tomorrow when the watch comes out.

Matt: Check out the video. It's not gonna be a super long video because the COROS PACE 4 is already out. This is a Black Crystal Edition. The main difference is that they added, like, an aluminum, um, like, whatever, they did some special coating to it, PVD coating to this aluminum bezel on it, and they changed some, the style of this watch.

Matt: Oh, cool. Anyway, so people that really love this COROS PACE 4, but they want something that looks a little bit better, it's $30 more than the previous PACE 4, but you get the fancier look to it. So comes out tomorrow. Watch, video comes out tomorrow, watch comes out tomorrow. Cool. Be on the lookout. 

Jake: Sweet.

Matt: Like and subscribe. 

Jake: That would be, um, April 22nd, right? 

Matt: Um, is today the 21st? Yes. Yeah. Yes, as far as I know. 

Jake: Just, I'll, I'll 

Matt: mention. I should, I should probably, like, send COROS a message and be like, "We good?" 

Jake: Yeah. Gibbo, one last thing, bud. 

Ian: Yeah, not much. Uh, predictably, I'm just gonna plug my race again, so please- Port Moody

Ian: please come out to Barton Park, support me, support your local cycling community. Um- 

Jake: And that race is on... 

Ian: That race is on Saturday, May the 9th. 

Jake: In the city of, or the town of, or- 

Ian: Well- ... area of ... I suppose the town is Barton, but, uh, the park is a mile from the, um, Barton, out by Estacade there on the east side of Portland area.

Ian: It's a 

Jake: beautiful course. Boring. Boring or- It's beau- It's 

Ian: near 

Jake: Boring. In Happy Valley? 

Ian: Yeah, I mean, and if you're listening to this and you live over here in Vancouver, it's only gonna take you perhaps 30 or, uh, 40, 45 minutes to get there. Yeah. It's, it's not far away. Doesn't cost much. I really would like it if, if people could sign up and, uh, um, give me some confidence that, uh, I'm at least gonna break even.

Ian: Break even. Also, um, I, I still need volunteers. You know, if you are local here and you, you wanna do something to support, again, the community, me, um, I need drivers. Uh, there's probably nine drivers I need for the day, so it's, it's kind of fun, like- It is fun driving ... being out there and driving. Yeah. You get a, you get a, um, good view of the action and the race and, uh- Yeah.

Ian: So, um, the links for all of that, well, you can go onto the Obra website, and then on their calendar there's a link to the race information, or you can go to my website, which is dialperformancecoaching.com. There's a link there to the Barton Park event, and then from Barton Park there's also a link to the volunteer sign-up sheet for that.

Ian: So- 

Jake: Gotcha ... 

Ian: yeah, do it sooner than later. Thank you very much. 

Jake: I'd come help you out, but guess what? 

Ian: You're away. 

Jake: I'm gonna be on the East Coast with Ian. Oh. So, yeah. Go figure. Okay. Hepler. 

Lance: Um, I've made three YouTube videos since, uh, we last recorded. Uh, one about a gravel race, Sasquatch-Durul. One about a mountain bike race, the Mud Slinger, and one about a road race, The Banana Belt.

Lance: So, if you wanna see Ian's ass in Spandex- ... look at my videos. You know we do. There you go. You know we do. Um, this Sunday I'm doing the Gorge Gravel race. Uh, that's Chad Sperry's Breakaway events, and then the week after that I'm going down to California to do BWR San Diego. 

Jake: How much do you think you spend just on race entry fees a year?

Jake: We won't talk about the traveling to get to said races. Just out of 

Matt: curiosity. One million. 

Jake: Guess. If I had to guess, I'd probably say six grand. 

Lance: It's probably four. 

Jake: Four? 

Matt: Yeah. It probably depends on the year, too. Like, some years you go to Unbound and you do this and that and the 

Lance: other, and- Yeah, but just, just race entries.

Jake: Well, I was thinking, like, the, the Oregon Trail, isn't that, like, three grand alone? 

Lance: It's two. 

Jake: Oh, okay. So 

Lance: that's- But, but I signed up seven months early and got a huge break on it. 

Ian: Okay. I mean, it's gonna cost you 300 bucks in gas to get- 

Lance: Yes, it will ... to Southern 

Ian: California, 

Lance: right? Yes, it will. Yeah. More than that.

Lance: Diesel's 

Jake: six bucks, seven bucks a gallon right 

Lance: now? It's seven bucks a gallon in California. Wow. 

Jake: Oh. Yeah, yeah. That hurts. 

Lance: It does hurt. But- Well... Me and Brandy are going down. She's got a 

Matt: bike there, dude. 

Lance: We're gonna see our son, Lake, and hang out. How's Lake doing? He's doing good. 

Matt: Good. 

Lance: Yeah. So. 

Jake: Cool. 

Lance: Jake. 

Jake: What?

Lance: Anything to plug? 

Jake: Um, nope, nothing to plug. We're just almost there with the, the new space opening up. Yes. Should be just a matter of weeks, if not sooner. So we'll see. Hopefully I'll have an update next time we do one of these. Um, I just wanted to say happy birthday to my daughter. My oldest daughter is 20 years old today.

Jake: Whoa. So happy birthday. 20 

Matt: years old. Happy 

Jake: birthday. 20, yeah. Wow. It's kinda crazy. I was messaging her this morning. It was like ass crack of dawn. And here for where she's at it was after 7:00, or just about 7:00 o'clock in the morning. But, um, it's kinda weird 'cause I'm like, "You know, in 11 years you're gonna be the same age I was when you were born," which was kinda crazy to me, thinking, like-

Jake: and in the same breath, it was 11 years ago, or 11 years ago now that we, we moved to Camas. So it's just kind of, like, th- that weird for her just to kinda wrap her head around, like, the, the time vortex that is life and how fast it starts to go by as you get older. Yes. Just kind of like, it's, it's amazing, and I've- Right.

Jake: You guys have probably heard me liken the, the l- the how time goes by. It just, in the beginning it takes forever, and then as you get older it goes faster. But it's like a roll of toilet paper. The closer you get to the end, the faster it goes, you know? So anyway, kinda crazy. But anyway- 

Matt: Life is like a roll of toilet 

Jake: paper.

Jake: Anyway, happy birthday, Abby. All right, we will be back with another one of these, uh, sooner than later hopefully, right, guys? Yeah. Yeah. Cool. We're, we're on a roll right now. We are. Roll of toilet paper. We do appreciate every... Yeah, we do appreciate everybody listening, and we will be back soon. Until then, rock on.

TP Granny: Listen, life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer you get to the end, the faster it goes. So don't waste it