Wild education with Sam

In this episode, Debbie talks with Sam, a former student who has blended her love of teaching with her passion for animals to become a primate keeper at Wellington Zoo. After completing a Bachelor of Arts in Education with a biology minor, Sam now spends her days caring for tamarins, capuchins, squirrel monkeys, and lemurs, while also teaching visitors and school groups about conservation.

Sam reflects on the teachers who inspired her, the lessons she loved during her degree, and how learning about human development now helps her read her audience and create meaningful learning moments at the zoo. She shares her path into zookeeping, including the resilience it took after being rejected from the certificate course the first time, and how volunteering opened the door to her dream job.

Listeners get a glimpse into her daily routine—from feeding and enrichment to talking with visitors and running close encounters. Sam also speaks honestly about the realities of the job, the joy of working with primates, and the strategies she uses to look after her wellbeing.

Her story is a powerful reminder that an education degree can open many pathways, and that following what you love can lead to unexpected, fulfilling places.

Hosted by Debbie Ross
Find us on Instagram & Facebook: @nurturingeducators

For more information, guest recommendations, and sponsorship opportunities 
or to chat, please email: nurturingeducators@gmail.com or visit  www.nurturingeducators.co.nz

Thanks for listening! 

Transcript

Host: Debbie Ross Guest: Sam

Debbie: Welcome, Sam. I'm so excited to have you on the show.

Sam: Thank you so much for having me. It's an honour to be here.

Debbie: It's great. So let's start off with, would you like to tell us a little bit about yourself?

Sam: Yeah, so my name's Sam. I have just finished my Bachelor of Arts Major in Education, minor in Biology, and I am now a keeper, a primate keeper at Wellington Zoo, and I have been here, you know, it's been a really cool experience. I was a student here at the school and a student of yours, so it's really interesting to be back, seeing you again, and this is going to be a really interesting reunion, I guess, you know.

Debbie: Cool. And would you like to tell us a little bit about what drew you to studying education in the first place?

Sam: Well, I'd say the key factor for me were the teachers I had in high school and just the interest in both the subjects that I was interested in and learning in general. I always knew early on that I loved to learn new things, especially if it was something that I had high interest in, mainly because I like to share my knowledge with others and also because I get to talk about the things I enjoyed, you know. I also believe that I had teachers who were fun and genuinely interested in the subjects that they taught, so it really made an impact on me and sparked an interest in teaching as a career, you.

Debbie: Sure. Oh, that's awesome. And what did you enjoy most about doing your degree?

Sam: I learned so many amazing things, you know, some I didn't even realise was a part of teaching or education in general. I learned about learning development and how to cater towards different learning styles, also how to support diverse learners, which was really, eye-opening for me and just beneficial, you know, in all learning environments, to be able to know that sort of stuff. I do believe my favourite lessons overall, though, were theories of human development and like frameworks explaining how to acquire, process, retain, and recall information during learning environments. Very psychological and quite, really cool.

Debbie: It's quite amazing how the brain works, it's insane.

Sam: Like, you can just, the things that you have in the back of your mind and how to quickly retain them and catch them and remember, oh, it's insane, really. Um, obstacles and challenges, I don't think I had any, like, content specific. All of it was quite interesting and easy for me, but it's just, I guess, the typical challenges like word limit or workload and handling that from like the high school to uni shift, but yeah, it was pretty good.

Debbie: Cool. And for someone who potentially may be looking at doing the course, what would your typical week look like?

Sam: It tended to change yearly, but I usually did about three courses a trimester, each course having, you know, one to two classes a week, each going for like about two hours, as well as tutorials fortnightly, which is just like smaller classes of the main group. I tried to be at uni around 9 or 10 a.m., go to my scheduled classes, and then leave around 5 p.m. In between classes, I would be in the library doing assignments, you know, working on whatever I had. That was kind of the thing I realised from that high school to uni shift is that there was always something to do, you know, you never really got a spare moment to... not relax, but there was always something to prep for, you know. Just like be in the uni for some reason. And this was the routine I formed throughout my years there, but, you know, it would change weekly if I had like social or sports events. One thing that I was really strong about was that once I was home, work was finished. I didn't want to come and work at home after dinner or anything like that, because you know, you're getting in your bed and you're on your laptop, it just never works well for me.

Debbie: You need some downtime.

Sam: Exactly, yeah. And you just never produce your best work when you're at home because that's your relaxing space. You don't need it.

Debbie: No, I agree with that. What made you decide you were doing this in Wellington, correct?

Sam: Yes.

Debbie: Yeah, so how did you decide on the university to go to?

Sam: It really was, like, a nice space for me to be able to grow as a person, but also still knowing that I had like family or that short flight back home if I needed it. It was just kind of a buffer of like independence and growing up. And I had a lot of friends that were going there as well. I had some girls who in the year above that had gone there and I really enjoyed it and loved the space. So, yeah, it was just a... it seemed like a nice environment.

Debbie: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Oh, that's cool. What skills or lessons did you learn from your degree?

Sam: It's taught me how to read my audience, you know, and create learning moments wherever they pop up. You know, like I've been able to understand that everyone learns differently and being able to meet them at where they're at has been really helpful in my day to day. Like as a keeper, I'm trying to look for ways to make spontaneous connections happen and those learning moments just form naturally. So it's always been really helpful to read your audience and cater information towards them, you know?

Debbie: Yeah, I like that. What advice or tips would you give someone who's thinking about doing a degree in Arts majoring in Education?

Sam: I'd say there is a wide variety of pathways you can go down, so it's really key to figure out what you're interested in or what you kind of want to get out of the degree. And it doesn't have to be the specific lecture or subject you're teaching, it could be like, do you prefer to teach kindergarten students or uni students like myself, or is maybe educational psychology a road? But it's just find something that brings you joy because if you are doing a topic that brings you joy, you're going to be better at teaching it to others and then it's just going to make, you know, those difficult days a lot easier. Like I'm such a strong believer that if you love what you do, you never work a day in your life. I back that so hard because you're going to have hard days. Every industry has them. But if you're enjoying what you're doing, where you are, it's going to make the, give you the tools to be able to handle those difficult days just a little bit better.

Debbie: I like that. Yeah. So you studied, what did you say? Biology?

Sam: I studied education and then minored in biology, yeah.

Debbie: So if you went into education one day, would that be the subject that you would teach?

Sam: Yeah, I would probably go down the biology route. I did start wanting to do media studies, but I think, yeah, biology and like animal behaviour, I just love. So I think that's definitely the kind of route that I would go down. Yeah.

Debbie: So that kind of helps us transition into the area of what you're doing now. So how did this opportunity to work in education at the zoo come about?

Sam: Yes, like I said, I went to uni planning to teach media studies or biology at a high school level, but I quickly found out that I just really like to watch a movie. So the film and media side wasn't actually something I was passionate about. And instead, it was biology and specifically ecology and animal behaviour and then teaching that to others. You know, I really just, you know, I love sharing my knowledge, like I said before, and like sharing my interest. So I found a Unitec paper at the end of 2022, the New Zealand Certificate in Animal Management and Welfare, Major in Zookeeping. So that's like the New Zealand qualification of zookeeping. I applied for it, though, the day applications are due. So I was declined, obviously. So then in 2023, changed my degree to major in education, minor in biology. And then I also volunteered at Wellington Zoo in the Nutrition Centre. So it's like the space where they create all the diets for the animals that they house, you know, like chopping meats and veg and all that. Really grubby and dirty and everything. And then at the end of 2023, I reapplied for the Unitec course, got accepted, and, yeah, did a whole year of doing the certificate while I put my bachelor on pause for the year because it was only a one year certificate. And then at the end of 2024, so I was almost finished the certificate course, I applied for a job at Wellington Zoo and I was offered a primate keeper role.

Debbie: Amazing.

Sam: It was really cool.

Debbie: I think that's really cool, Sam, how it showed, you know, you got rejected the first time and then you thought, okay, how am I going to go about rectifying this? And then you went back. It shows real resilience on your part. So why that. And you got the experience and got the job.

Sam: Exactly, yeah. And like, it's the connections I had made and like the stuff I had learned through at the course that everyone knew who I was when I applied to be a student, they were like, yeah, or like a job? Yeah, definitely. We know who you are.

Debbie: Yeah. There you go. Amazing. So stoked. They always say that, eh? That's not what you know. It's who you know.

Sam: Exactly. You're one foot in the door, you know, yeah.

Debbie: Yeah, definitely. Oh, great. So now, what does a typical day in your role look like?

Sam: So my morning starts at 8 a.m. with a team meeting in the office to look over the notes from the previous day and discuss any updates just to make sure the team's all on the same page. Then I go collect my diets for the animals I'm working with that day. It can change, but typically, I'm working with Cotton-top Tamarins, Golden Lion Tamarins, Red Rump Agouti, Capuchin monkeys, and Squirrel monkeys. And that's all in one day.

Debbie: Wow. There's quite a lot.

Sam: I'll medicate any individuals that need it. I will service the habitats, which is like scrubbing and hosing, cleaning, cleaning waters, taking out old faecals, enrichment, food, and then providing them with their morning feeds. And midday, after break, I will go back and give everyone their midday feeds and provide them with them enrichment, which is just like activities to keep the animals mentally and physically stimulated and allowing them to display their natural behaviours. I'll also take this moment to go and talk to visitors outside the habitats, you know, discuss about what species I'm working with that day and who we're housing here in this enclosure, that sort of thing. After lunch, I will sometimes help out with the Black and White Ruffed Lemur Close Encounter and then return back to my animals to give them a night feed, bug feed, and a training session if there's time.

Debbie: Wow. What does that last one involve?

Sam: Training is just so, like, activities that we will do, like we do target training. So we, for different species, we do different sort of trains for behaviours. Like we do like injection training where we have like just like not a sharp object, but like a stick where we poke them. So if we need to inject them later on, they're kind of getting them accustomed to the feeling and accustomed to us being there, asking, requesting for their hand or their shoulder or something like that.

Debbie: Oh, fascinating, yeah.

Sam: Yeah, so it's a lot of just like training them to like move around, but on their own decision, really. Like, we would prefer them to move over here or offer them their arm, but, you know, we're not gonna force them to do that. So it's kind of just, yeah, training, I guess, yeah.

Debbie: Yeah. Awesome.

Sam: Then I head to the office to complete notes for the day for the team to read tomorrow, you know, but this is all like my routine on paper. Things change all the time. Routines don't always go as planned and we're constantly having to observe the animals and how they're behaving and maintaining the habitat and juggling all many different tasks, you know, like, we're definitely not cuddly animals all day that some people might say. Honestly, that's a stereotype. We're just hanging out with the animals. I was like, no, we're not. I am picking up faecals.

Debbie: Yeah, so much. Oh, cool. What kinds of educational programs or interactions do you run there?

Sam: It's mostly through talks and communicating with visitors throughout the day. I like to make time throughout my busy, busy schedule to interact with people as it's the one reason I became a keeper, typically telling people about the species that we house and information about where they're from, like what they eat and behaviours of their wild conspecifics, and also just about the individuals in general that we house. I also am sometimes taking the Black and White Ruffed Lemur Close Encounter. So this is like a close up experience where we get to take people behind the scenes to meet our three Lemur boys, Kari and Koto and Kor. And it's such a...

Debbie: So are they all very chill?

Sam: Yeah, the most relaxed species that we have there. They, if you ever go down to Wellington Zoo, they like to sunbathe, just like hold their arms out and they'll bare their chest to the side. It's so funny. They look so relaxed, honestly.

Debbie: I live in the dream.

Sam: No, seriously live in the best life, like the food delivered to... Yeah, no, they're having the best time ever. But it's a really awesome time to be able to share the space with the lemurs and ask questions about anything. I'm answering them as best as I can, but I'm just sharing about, you know, why they're critically endangered and, you know, what they eat and behaviours of both them as a species and an individual. And it's just so awesome to tell the visitors about them and what they can do outside the zoo for like conservation and everything.

Debbie: We have a lot of school groups coming through?

Sam: Yes, definitely. Especially during, we have holiday programs come and during holiday times, yeah, but we do definitely get a lot of school groups, both like intermediate, primary school, a whole bunch. Yeah.

Debbie: Wow. And how does teaching in a zoo differ from what you would imagine teaching in a school setting? I can imagine it has both similarities and differences.

Sam: Like, I feel the element of distraction is still quite prominent, you know? But I guess in schools, you have a lot more structure. Like you get to know your students, you have a lesson plan that you follow through and build that relationship with them. But in a zoo, you have whoever comes in for the day, you know, families, friends, visitors, school groups, and you have like 10 minutes or so to be able to catch their attention before they move on. So I think that's...

Debbie: That's quite a skill to develop.

Sam: It's really hard because also they're there for the animals. So like, why would they be wanting to listen to someone talking to them? But I guess we do have the advantage that we get to physically pull from examples, like we have a lemur right in front of you and I can say, well, they do this because this, look at their tail. And like we have that example right there in front of them. So that's really awesome. And I guess it's a tactic to hook anyone more than any book or lecture, but it's just making sure that they're still listening to what you're saying and focusing on you as well as the animal. That's definitely tricky.

Debbie: Have you got any little techniques that you use to, like, pull them back on track?

Sam: Usually, I'm... I was really just kind of, like, making myself and the animal that I'm talking about, like, the main topic. Like, I'm not just going to be like, look at me over here, but I, like, will stand next to the animal and be like, this is this, and this is this. So it's kind of, we're in the same, like, frame almost. Yeah, I guess.

Debbie: It's clever. Oh, cool. And what do you love most about the work that you're doing?

Sam: Oh, I'm trying to not sound cliché or cheesy or anything like that, but I genuinely do love this job. You know, like, I love the animals, the people I work with, the opportunities I've been given. And at the end of the day, I'm doing the dream job that I've had since I was like, what, eight years old or something?

Debbie: That's great.

Sam: And, like, don't get me wrong, there are definitely hard days. You know, we work in the rain, the wind, the freezing cold, and every single public holiday. But when an animal interacts with an enrichment that I've made for them, or I answer a question, like, a really cool question to a visitor, it just reminds me how lucky I am to be there. Also that it's a constant learning environment. Obviously, I'm still new to the industry, so I am learning something new every day and animal behaviour is endlessly fascinating. And the things I learn and I see, like, did you know, like a chimp can laugh like us?

Debbie: Wow.

Sam: It's the weirdest experience. It's so breathy and just really funny to look at. It's so weird. But it's...

Debbie: Does it get you laughing?

Sam: Yeah, it does, yeah. It's so funny. But it's like they're all, what I love specifically about, like the animals I work with and like the primates is they're so much like us. Like they have their own personality.

Debbie: Do you reckon they've always laughed or have they mimicked human behaviour?

Sam: They definitely have always laughed. Like, their kind of group behaviour and family behaviour is just so rooted in them as a species. Like, they're very, like, hierarchies is a really big thing, but like, like parents and all that, like, families just really important to them. And like, they display that in the wild, you know, it's not just a zoo environment thing, but it's just so funny to look at them. I could, especially with our chimpanzees, we have a group of about ten. I could sit and watch that group for hours, especially our young Akita. He's probably about, maybe two or three now and he's just so funny. He's just swinging from like rope to rope, like hits his dad and runs away. Like he's so funny to watch. Like, it's... it's really cool that I get to hang out with these kinds of species, like, all day. It's really awesome.

Debbie: Oh, cool. So do you think your degree in majoring in education has helped you for the role that you're in at the moment?

Sam: Yeah, yeah, I'd say it's taught me how to talk to larger groups and also to think a little bit more on my feet. You know, every day I'm talking to so many people, all of different ages and I need to be able to make sure that I'm talking, I'm catering my information towards them, making sure that what I'm saying is both understandable and interesting. And also regarding my daily routine, like things don't always go as planned, but I've been able to understand how to adjust my task or answer questions on the spot and just, you know, be a little bit more adaptable.

Debbie: I think it's really neat that, you know, that you're doing this role at the moment, but it also shows people out there that doing a degree or majoring in education actually can open up a whole lot of doors. It doesn't have to actually be just teaching, which is quite cool.

Sam: And also, you're not like defined to teaching in a classroom as well. Like that is such a cool job to do, but education is really universal. You can go anywhere and it's just so good. Yeah.

Debbie: Yeah. What have you learned about yourself through, you know, both the study that you've done and also working in the zoo?

Sam: I've learned not to compare my work to others and that I need to handle obstacles as they come. And they're like that as it comes part is really important to me. I have always been, I was always someone who would worry about the future or the what ifs, but both working and studying has kind of taught me that I can only control so much. Animals don't follow lesson plans and weather doesn't accommodate your schedule. I've realised that if something's stressing me out, I need to actively change it or just put it out of my head if I can't control it, there's no point in stressing over it. I'm also naturally quite a big planner. So if something that's stressing me out, I've learned how to channel that into action. You know, create a step by step plan of what I can actually do to fix it, you know? It's something I'm still working on definitely, but yeah, just kind of focus on what is in my control, really.

Debbie: It's some good strategies that I can implement as well. I definitely like the planning one.

Sam: It's just easy. Like, you know, because you're like, oh, I want to get better at this, but that seems so, like, unattainable, but it's just like small steps. Small steps.

Debbie: Smaller steps. Have to agree. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, cool. Well, where do you think you see yourself in the future in terms of education, conservation, or both, maybe?

Sam: Yeah, I definitely think both. I want to travel around the world, you know, reach a wider range of audiences and further help conservation organisations, specifically the groups that work at the core of the issues with like population management or forest restoration. All of that sounds really cool and really interesting, you know, get amongst the field. I'm also keen to work in zoos around the world and broaden my experience with different species, you know, more tamarin species or lemurs, or I'd love to work with bears. I think we have one at Wellington Zoo and I am itching to work with her. She's so cool. So I think a bit, yeah, just more experience with animals, basically. But, yeah, there's so many, so many things I can do whether it's in the zoo industry or in conservation, so many pathways and doors that like that can open. I'm only at the start of my career, you know? It's only up, really. But I am currently loving where I am now, so I'm just kind of sitting and waiting.

Debbie: Amazing. And if you were to give a bit of advice to perhaps teachers or, you know, people starting out in their degree, what would it be?

Sam: I'd feel that it's all doable. You know, what seems impossible to you now will eventually click for people in university. That's why you're there. You're there to learn, you're not going to know everything off the bat, everything is a learning experience and a learning opportunity and just make sure that you take them whenever they pop up. And trust that you have something valuable to offer in every job, class, friendship, and don't let those hard days kind of convince you otherwise. It's all just have fun with it, really. It's such an awesome thing to do, you know, just relax. It'll be fine. It'll be so fun.

Debbie: Great advice. And in terms of well-being, what do you do to look after yourself?

Sam: Just making sure that I am taking the time to do things I enjoy. I really love like a late night movie watch with my flatmates or going out. The other day I went to do a beach cleanup with my workmates. Like just the extra little things to enjoy your day to day, you know? You don't need to go to work and then come home and go to sleep. And like, you can mix your routine up a little bit and also just enjoy where you are at work. Like, obviously, like I said before, we have a strict routine of things you need to do throughout the day. But if I do some jobs quickly, then I have a spare time. I like to go and make some extra enrichment for myself, or you know, go and physically do my notes or watch an animal. There's actual things that kind of spice up your life a little bit of, I guess, you know?

Debbie: Yeah. And I liked what you said before as well about not taking study or work home. I think that's a really good bit of advice for people starting out. It's so important to be able to put a boundary in between and know when to shut time out and just have a break, eh?

Sam: Yeah, exactly. Definitely.

Debbie: Well, is there anything else that you'd like to share with us before we wrap up? What a bit of advice? You've given some great stuff today?

Sam: I just love what you do. Just find something that makes you tick and then you're going to have a great time doing whatever it is teaching or anything else. Just, yeah. And thank you so much for having me on. It's been so such an incredible experience. I've loved every moment.

Debbie: That's awesome. Yeah, so thanks so much for sharing your journey with us today, Sam. It's really inspiring to see how you're using your education degree and also zookeeping and how you've managed to combine both of them. And yeah, I just want to wish you the best for the future and look forward to seeing what you get up to.

Sam: Thank you so much.

Debbie: All right. Take care. Bye-bye.