The BOLD and Brilliant Podcast with Tracie Root

The Bold and Brilliant Podcast with guest Caterina Rando

• Tracie Root • Season 1

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In this episode of The Bold and Brilliant Podcast, Tracie talks with Caterina Rando, women's business mentor extraordinaire.

Caterina Rando is a woman on a mission to uplift the lives of women everywhere through thriving entrepreneurship. She is an author, sought-after-speaker, podcaster, and business transformation coach who passionately serves women leaders and entrepreneurs on a mission. Her over twenty-five years of educating and empowering makes her truly masterful at providing a ton of value. She specializes in authentic selling, embracing speaking to build influence, how to bliss in your business, and thriving with women’s retreats. Her books include: Learn to Think Differently, from Watkins Publishing, released in over thirteen countries and several languages, A Women’s Guide To Starting a Giving Circle, and her latest book, the ABCs of Public Speaking which quickly hit #1 in four Amazon best-seller categories. Caterina is also, the founder of The Thriving Women in Business Center in San Francisco, a place for women to gather and host workshops. She also started Thriving Women in Business Giving which raises money for women and girls education and entrepreneurship training.

Episode Summary: In this episode of the Bold and Brilliant Podcast, Tracie Root sits down with Caterina Rando, a best-selling author, sought-after speaker, and women’s business mentor. Caterina shares the bold decisions that shaped her career and business, including her shift to empowering women, launching a center in San Francisco, and creating a bliss-filled business. She also discusses the power of saying "yes," and how aligning your decisions with your passions can elevate both your personal and professional life.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

  • How Caterina transitioned from serving both men and women to focusing solely on empowering women entrepreneurs.
  • The importance of making bold decisions and taking risks, even when the path is uncertain.
  • How to find clarity in your business and create marketing that attracts your ideal clients.
  • The power of "saying yes" to new opportunities and experiences, and how it can lead to unexpected success.
  • How to run a business with ease, focusing on what brings you bliss and financial abundance.

Actionable Tips from Caterina Rando:

  • Be clear about who you're meant to serve in your business and let that inform your marketing and client acquisition.
  • Don’t be afraid to say “yes” to opportunities, even if you’re unsure at first – it’s all about learning and growth.
  • Run your business with a focus on bliss and financial surplus to attract vitality, creativity, and success.
  • Attend workshops and networking events to be inspired by others’ successes and learn from their strategies.

Memorable Quote: “The more we are blissing in our business, the more people we’re attracting, the more vitality we have to do our thing, the more creativity we experience.”

Bold Moment of the Episode: Caterina shares how she took a leap of faith and made the bold decision to open her own center in San Francisco, transforming a space that didn’t seem ideal at first into a welcoming

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Your host,
Tracie Root

Tracie Root:

Welcome to the bold and brilliant podcast where women leaders share inspiring stories about the daring decisions that shape their businesses, their lives, and their careers today. I'm with the fabulous Caterina Rando. Caterina is a best selling author, sought after speaker, podcaster, retreat leader, and women's business mentor extraordinaire who passionately serves women leaders on a mission. As we talk, You'll hear Caterina share one bold decision that created her path of what was next. Her resilience, risk taking, and transformation will inspire, encourage, and support your personal and professional growth and bliss. Welcome Caterina to the bold and brilliant podcast.

Caterina Rando:

Thank you, Tracie. I am blissing to be with you.

Tracie Root:

Caterina, I am so excited that you're here to help me launch this brand new podcast that I've been imagining for so long, and you've been a big part of that imagining helping me for the last seven years. I'm really excited to reach people who maybe haven't met you yet and tell them about you. And the things that you've done to get past your obstacles to be bold in your life and in your business. So tell everyone who doesn't know you a little bit about what got you here?

Caterina Rando:

What got me here? Wow. The thing about entrepreneurship is it can be a very circuitous route. When I started, I was mostly coaching men and women one on one to grow their business. I had a cafe before that. Most of the people I met initially had on the ground brick and mortar businesses. Through the course of serving, two things became very clear. One, I love working with the women. Also, I'm very much about women empowerment and I want to support women to massively monetize in their business. And once I made the bold decision. And I was like, Oh my gosh, so many amazing things happened. We started to be able to have tea parties and go on cruise retreats and do more female centric things that I didn't even anticipate. Over the course of doing my work, there's been many bold decisions. I bought a magazine from someone else and we had a magazine for a couple of years. I started publishing books. And my friend, there's been a lot of bold decisions, not all necessarily brilliant, but the thing about making bold decisions is you don't always know what's on the other side, you can strategize, you can anticipate. One big bold decision was I opened a center in San Francisco. We've been open, for about five years now. The really cool thing is. I got sick of giving all my money to the hotels to have my live and in person programs and I was of course blissing to not be giving them all my hard earned cash. The thing that I did not anticipate was how much more ease and bliss it would bring into my life. To have my own place where I get to leave all my stuff. To not have other people running around in my space, like at a hotel. So it's nice and private.

Tracie Root:

It's almost like you're in your home in a lot of ways, right? It's very welcoming. That reminds me of when you decided to work with only women or at least 99. Percent women. One of the things about being an entrepreneur is. You don't realize how much you have to know about your own marketing, and your own decision making around what you're doing so that you can talk about what you're doing and attract those people. So that, when you said I changed from supporting men and women to only women, it all started to make sense. I think there's a lot of entrepreneurs that can relate to that. Change that decision to, quote, cut out people, half the population and actually grow your business instead.

Caterina Rando:

And let me say, Tracie, had a lovely conversation today with a gal who is in that same conundrum, not about men and women, but about corporate and entrepreneur. The concern is always if I don't be for everybody, then I'm going to lose potential business and yes, Mary, Jane, and Sheila if they're Who you're not working with, they won't be a yes for you. The thing is though, what we want is people to say, Oh, she's for me. She's a great match for me. And the more we get clear about who we're called to serve, it doesn't actually eliminate people. It actually makes your people show up more. And then you can get very specific in all aspects of your business to just serve it. The people you're called to serve. Resonate with you because you're talking to them. Everything you do is created for them.

Tracie Root:

Imagine as a potential client or someone who's looking for some sort of support, would you rather work with someone where you say, Oh, that sounds like it's for me or wow, that is so me. Like you want to go for that person. And when we talk to our prospects for lack of a better term, those potential clients, That with that level of clarity, it's just makes it easier for them to say yes, not only for us to be able to serve them as well.

Caterina Rando:

Yes. And it makes our marketing activities more clear. Yes. And the same thing with our sales act sales. We will only schedule the opportunity to talk to gals. Who we think, Oh yeah, she meets my client criteria. And I do want to say, Tracie, what you've heard me say so many times, is that when we think of our ideal clients, it's not only about demographics, what they do, what their income is, their education, their area of focus, maybe moms are not moms of a certain age or not a certain age. It's also the psychographics. And the more we can get clear about the personality of our ideal clients, the more we will resonate. I like gals who are positive. I like gals with integrity. I like gals who are action oriented and gals that are good communicators. Those are my gals. Now, those are my gals. Everybody gets to decide on who their own ideal clients are. Let's not forget, though, about the personality makeup. That will, have your people meet you and be like, Bing bing! This is the gal for me.

Tracie Root:

Yeah, absolutely. I was thinking about a gal that I was talking to the other day, who's continued just early in their business, trying to figure out how to find more clients and their marketing, their verbiage and everything is still really broad because they're early and they're figuring themselves out still. And so if you're brand new entrepreneur or new in this, whatever that Field is it can be a challenge to cut away at that excess. When you get there, all of a sudden it's oh, and this feels right. They're showing up and all of a sudden, the light turns on, not only inside you for knowing who you're talking to and what you're doing and why you're doing it for who the light turns on everywhere else, not only with your clients, but also in your bank account, because now people are going to be coming your way. And if you're not sure if gals are in early and they're not sure which direction to go, what pool to fish in, what I encourage them to do is to say, yes. To this, that, and the other thing and see how it feels. If you like it, if you resonate with them, if they resonate with you, I remember early in my career, Tracie, I did a lot of work with professional organizers. They super vibed with me. I've done a lot of work with image professionals because I'm an image enthusiast. That was from saying yes to talk to them, not knowing if they were going to love my talk or vibe with my message, but they absolutely did. And so in the beginning, it's okay to say yes, to see what feels right and what matches you. I remember also, I went, I used to be in the catering, as my friend, I had a cafe and catering business and some gentlemen said to me, Hey, Caterina, will you come talk to my servers about building influence. And, I'd love to talk about how to build influence. And I thought, Hey, I used to be in the food business. This would be great. My friend, it was terrible. Okay. They were like ready to go to sleep the guys have sunglasses on some of them. Cause they wanted to take a nap during my doc. Okay. So hello, clearly not the right match, but I didn't know that. Until I put myself in that situation. Yeah. And that really gets me back to the idea of making a bold decision and like being a yes. I read this book not long ago by Shonda Rimes, famous Shonda Rimes of many brilliant television shows that we all love book, The Year of Yes. She was a major introvert and she decided one year she was going to be a yes for all of the Hollywood parties and all the things she hated to go to, but she knew it was important for her to be a, yes to grow her influence in the world and be a part of the community that she was a part of that she, had to really struggle to put herself out there. I think it's a really great lesson for entrepreneurs. If you struggle with putting yourself out there. Give yourself a shot, take that risk, be bold and say yes and see what happens because it is all education.

Caterina Rando:

Absolutely. I'm going to put that on my list.

Tracie Root:

Oh, it's so good. It's an excellent book. Very good.

Caterina Rando:

Let's hang out here for a second, my friend, because. I want to say that it's really important, as I love speakers. I want everybody to make sure that you're listening to books or listening or reading. We're very busy entrepreneurs though. So it's mostly listening to books. Oh, I, did I use the word busy? Oh, I don't like to use that word. Our life is very full as entrepreneurs. I encourage everyone to listen to books because you get ideas and you do get inspired to pay attention to what are the lessons, because We can take inspiration from everywhere That's one success practice I encourage everyone to embrace.

Tracie Root:

And podcast is the same thing, whether it's books or podcasts, right? That's why I wanted to start this because so many of the women that I've met and that I know I will get to meet as a result of having this platform will inspire and encourage. You really have any opportunity in front of you when you are open to the thoughts you take in from other people's experiences and what they've learned. We don't all have to recreate the wheel. We don't have to start our life from zero. We have much advice to use as leverage.

Caterina Rando:

Yes. I think I told you this Allegra, who's one of our. Yes. I love Allegra. She said to me that my podcast got her through the pandemic and I, which warmed my heart and I've had, and that's podcasting is so great. For people to get to know us.

Tracie Root:

Yeah.

Caterina Rando:

And I love it when people tell me, Oh, I listened to your podcast because it's like they're, it's like being a star in the sense that they feel like they really know you. And that's what we want, right? We want people to really get to know us. And the, our podcast is not only a way for us to have them get to know us, but it's also a way for us to serve them before they step in to be a client.

Tracie Root:

Yeah, absolutely. And I definitely have lots. I mean, you've started your podcast within the last seven years that I've already known you. So I already knew you, but there's lots of people out there who I've never met listening to their podcasts who are, you know, famous in the entrepreneurship self help, whatever world who I feel like I know them. Like we totally would be best friends if we ever actually met in person because we are like, you know, aligned. And I think that that, yeah, it's, it's a great way to really, you know, Do you like the question that's coming to my mind is these people that we have never met. I still call them my mentors. Even though they've never, they have no idea who I am at all, but they've mentored me through different skills, different, you know, abilities, different ways of thinking about things, different ways of looking at my business or myself. So it's a great way to get free mentorship, podcasting.

Caterina Rando:

Yes, absolutely. And you know, Tracy, the other thing I love to do is I love to go to workshops, which I know you do. And I, I'm working on my next book right now. And I was listening to one of my podcast episodes and I was talking about a breakthrough I had when I attended, um, Maritza Levy. Do you remember her? Maritza Levy? Yeah. I love Maritza. This workshop on self love and I was like, Oh my gosh, I just had a major breakthrough.

Tracie Root:

Yep. I remember that.

Caterina Rando:

Yeah. And, and she was talking about the love languages and you know, I love the love languages and I talk about them for client appreciation, but she was talking about them from the perspective of loving yourself. And my friend, how come I never thought of that? Right? So my point is that it's not only the famous people that can inspire us. It's, it's the gal who's doing a workshop. It's the gal in your networking group. That's why, you know, I want us to be in community more because we inspire and uplift each other.

Tracie Root:

Absolutely. Whenever, whenever I need an uplift, I know all I have to do is just reach out to someone in the community or go to a thing, whether it's, you know, a workshop or a networking thing or any of the above, it's, it's the best uplift of your day for sure.

Caterina Rando:

Absolutely. Or come to afternoon tea, my friend.

Tracie Root:

I know I love coming to afternoon tea. Okay, so you touched briefly on the decision that big bold decision to have your own center and how it feels to be there to host it and everything. What was the challenge that maybe you had when what kept you from doing it at first?

Caterina Rando:

Well, my friend, you know, I live in San Francisco. Okay. Oh, this is true. It's not like, you know, there's a lifetime supply of locations at an affordable price. And I'm, you know, for a long time, I'm looking around for the right place. And, and just like we create a criteria for ideal clients, I created a criteria for what I thought was right for my center, not too big access to parking. Of course, enough bathrooms for ladies and I wanted it to be beautiful. You know, in fact, my idea was to make it like the idea of a comfortable. men's club only for women, you know, feminine with the bright colors and the crystal chandeliers. And, you know, we have the red carpets and of course, flowers, all of that. So it needed to meet the aesthetics too. So I really wasn't finding the location and then as you know, my mom and I own a commercial building in San Francisco together and the hair salon guy was ready to move out and even though it wasn't the ideal space in my head at the moment, I was like, well, you know, it's the opportunity to presenting it. So, right. Because sometimes it's not. Is it right or is it wrong? It's how can I make it right? And that's what we did. We took time to add a few more bathroom stalls and to change the walls from blue to more of a yellow or gold to you know, tear out the carpets and Feminize the joint so that it would be right for the ladies

Tracie Root:

Yeah. Yeah. I love that. It reminds me so much of when we made gather, of course, and I'm doing an episode on that as well. If you haven't seen the episode about the creation of gather in the gather community, go listen to that. Um, but it's so funny because, you know, the first place that we actually found that we were going to move forward with was an old hair salon.

Caterina Rando:

So

Tracie Root:

it's a funny coincidence. Um, it turns out that that building was slated for demolition, so they could only process it or promise it to us for a short period of time. Now shoot, if we would have known that it would have made it all the way through COVID super, super cheap, right? But, um, but, but we didn't know that COVID was going to happen. So what do you do? So I found a different place. That, you know, was the same idea, right? We had the criteria we needed to have access to the bathrooms and what are we going to do for water and how much space is it and how many people can it hold and where's the parking and all of those things. So, yeah, I love that. And, you know, you did your center before I did mine. And of course I learned a lot from you and your search and, and all of the other places that we would go show up together. You might be speaking. I might be, we might be networking wherever. Um, and that was a really important. Part of that decision making process for me, because continues to validate the ideas that are in your head when you see them out in the world and you get, um, get to take in the experiences of other people and how did you handle this challenge? Because I'm facing the same challenge. So if you'd get to do that in person or do it through reading a book or listening to a podcast, it's all that same education that we get as a large community.

Caterina Rando:

And talk to the people that are doing what you want to be doing.

Tracie Root:

Yeah,

Caterina Rando:

and i'll also say tracy, you know, I You know, I teach and you came with me when we did our retreat on how to do retreats.

Tracie Root:

Yes, a couple of times.

Caterina Rando:

Before I did retreats, I didn't take a class on retreats. I went on other people's retreats. Yeah. I find that I learn And also I get inspired when I go and watch somebody do what I want to be doing. That, that is really something. And then also, which I've seen with so many of my gals that have done retreats, is that When they come, they get inspired and it gives them momentum to then go do their own, which is so exciting.

Tracie Root:

Yeah. You know, I wonder if it is a high achiever tendency, right? That we experienced something and it's like, Ooh, I could do something like this and I would do it this way and I would do it that way, not to compare and not to one up, but just to take that inspiration and immediately start thinking about how could you, if it's really exciting that you are inspired to Consider how you could do it yourself to start thinking about that. I remember at my retreat last September that you were at and several people, you know, we're there, we're having a retreat and immediately upon kind of landing and taking that first relaxing retreat breath. One of the gals was like, Oh, I know what I need to do next. I'm going to do this. And I'm going to do this. And like, it just got out of her, the inspiration and excitement of what she was going to create next. And I think that happens for all of us who get to attend to each other's things.

Caterina Rando:

Absolutely. And it's important to go to each other. I love going to women's retreats. Um, and I'm glad to be able to talk to people about that. And, um, I'm glad to see how they do it to see, to be inspired, to get ideas, but also, you know, it's nice to not be in charge and be the, absolutely.

Tracie Root:

I totally agree. And you know, the other thing that just came to mind too, was, you know, sometimes we, we talk ourselves out of going places or experiencing things. What am I going to get out of it? Am I going to get my ROI right? And ROI shows up in a lot of different ways. And so what could you learn from attending or experiencing someone else's thing? Just by being there, there's an education happening. And, you know, yeah, maybe they're not all perfect for you, but what if four people are, and maybe that it's not, you know, a topic, but you know, that they're a good speaker. So you can go and learn from their style, maybe not the content or whatever. Um, so I love the idea of taking the communities that you are belong to. And I don't know about you, but I have like seven different organizations that I'm a part of in order to Take on what I can't to be a yes. And to take that information and, and see how it can unfold for myself.

Caterina Rando:

I think being a yes is a great guiding principle. What I want to say is it's important to pay attention to, do I want to be a yes and does it feel like a yes? I'm a yes. And you're making me, as we're talking about travel, you're making me think about earlier this year when my friend Peggy said to me four days before she was leaving, do you want to go with me to Paris? And of course I took, I, my first thought was I can't go. I have too much on my plate, but then I took a deep breath and I asked myself. Do I want to go? And the answer was, yes, of course I want to go. And then I said, okay, well, if I want to go, how can I make it happen back to that earlier question is not should I, or shouldn't I, but how can I, and then not only did I go and have a great time with Peggy when we went to Paris, but I, I realized, Hey, I could see my friend who I hadn't seen in many years, who had moved to Paris. And then I ran into some gals. From another community that we're involved with. They invited me to dinner. They invited me to shopping and that helped to us to enhance those relationships as well. And so, you know, amazing things happen once we say yes.

Tracie Root:

Yeah,

Caterina Rando:

but it does require Tracy the topic of our conversation. It does require not only bold action but bold decision making.

Tracie Root:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you touched on the whole whether it's a should I or shouldn't I and I think that's a really kind of anchoring piece of that where our natural tendency would be like, I shouldn't, I shouldn't do that. I shouldn't do that. I should do this. And I don't know about you, but I decided to take that word out of my vocabulary many years ago, very intentionally. Right. And it took a little bit, especially in the beginning. And now it's just like, no, no, no, no. We don't say should or shouldn't it's what's the right, you know, because you can say it in a different way without that. The shaming part of should. Right. So, so important. I love that.

Caterina Rando:

Yes. And it slips in sometimes as a guiding principle. It's very good to pay attention to when we're shooting ourself. Yeah. There is another way. My friend, I also have to point out that this is part of the beauty of entrepreneurship is that you get to, you get to decide, you get to do your life the way you want to do it. You don't have to ask anybody's permission and it doesn't matter if people think It's whatever to drop everything and do something you want to do. You get to run your business and your life any way you want. Bing, bing, bing.

Tracie Root:

I love it. I love it. Okay. Let's see. You know, the last thing that I want to ask you is Um, about like the, you made a big shift not long ago to really focus on what helps you bliss more in your business.

Caterina Rando:

Yeah. And

Tracie Root:

that's a bold decision trajectory changing kind of thought also, because yeah, I mean, you've made a lot of decisions that was like, okay, I'm going to create this in my business. I'm going to create this, but to say, you know what, I'm going to do what makes me bliss.

Caterina Rando:

And

Tracie Root:

have that be like the overarching theme of everything, life, business relationships, all of it. What's the hardest part about reminding yourself that you're, you're only going to do what makes you bliss. So it goes back maybe to that should part. Like I'm supposed to also be doing this, but I don't love it, but it really needs to be done. It doesn't make me bliss. What do I do?

Caterina Rando:

You know, the thing is women start businesses. Because they want to help people for the most part. Or some gals might start their business because they want to make more money than whatever they were doing. And hopefully they're doing that. What I got clear on though, in coaching hundreds of women's over the years in their business is not everybody was blissing. Like they were happy that they were in their own business, but they were struggling financially, or they were struggling with. To-dos or they're struggling with getting clients and struggle is the opposite of bliss.

Tracie Root:

Yeah.

Caterina Rando:

Or at least, I don't know if it's the exact opposite, but it's definitely not in the right, in your

Tracie Root:

definition. It's all good.

Caterina Rando:

Right. And so I wanted to have women pay a lot more attention to what makes them bliss. And part of what takes away their bliss Tracy is when they're doing things that are not their job. And they're doing things that they're not masterful at or they're not wanting to be masterful at. Like

Tracie Root:

doing it because it has to be done and they don't see any other way.

Caterina Rando:

Right. Now, gals will tell me, they have told me, well, Katerina, I have to. Edit my own videos because I don't have money to pay someone else to do it. Well then you got to learn how to master selling or you've got to learn how to master something else because the biggest thing that takes away bliss from women in business, in my opinion, Tracy is a lack of financial surplus when they are, they are, you know, every month not having money to pay their bills. And then there's also not building your financial savvy. I remember once a gal said to me, Oh my gosh, Katerina, I got to pay my taxes. And I thought to myself, okay, taxes are not a new thing in business for many years. Okay. And it's not like surprise. Now we have taxes, right? My point is that She was not on top of her business financial situation. And now it was causing her stress. And stress doesn't equal bliss. So we have to be strategic to run our business. And during our strategy, Pay attention to what do you enjoy? Because the more we are blissing in our business, guess what? The more people we're attracting, the more vitality we're having to do our thing, the more creativity, you know, it's really hard to be creative. When you're stressing financially. Yeah. These, these are a few thoughts. So, so I guess part of why I'm blissing in my business, not, I guess my friend, I'm sure part of why I'm blissing in my business is I run my business always with surplus. And that also gives me more freedom to be able to say yes to my friend who wants to invite me to Paris to be a yes for my friend, our mutual friend, Karen, who just invited me. On her retreat for next year. That wasn't on my calendar. I can be a yes, and that's good for my business and that's good for my life. And that's what I want for everybody.

Tracie Root:

Yeah, I love it. I love it. Well, amazing. And you know, I think that that's a great way to end because ultimately podcast exists. Why my business exists, why your business exists, why we exist as humans is because we want everyone around us to be happy and to enjoy their lives. And not in the sense of, Oh, I have things or whatever, but that the decisions that you make serve you. They're not because you have to, or because. Someone else needs something, but because you're choosing the path that you're going down. And that's that bold decision we make all the time. I have a list of 20 that I just came up with off the top of my head for episodes for this podcast, because every day we're making bold decisions that uplift ourselves, our families, our businesses, our communities, the planet. And I am really glad that you are here with me to talk about some of yours and some of mine, and we're going to kick this party off with lots and lots of bold decisions and great success for lots of women. So. Thank you, Katarina.

Caterina Rando:

You know, I'm always blissing to be with you. I'm looking forward to the upcoming bold action retreat. I love to retreat. I love to retreat with you. I love to hang out with you and travel around. And part of the reason, and let me just say this, my friend, for wrapping up, really, it's important to hang out with women that are having similar values to us. You value being bold. You value being positive. You value being uplifting. You value no drama. These are also things that I value, which is part of the reason we're such good friends and why I'm always blissing to be with you. And it's important for women in their life and in their business to get clear, what kind of gals do I want to hang out with? And hang out with those gals that you leave more uplifted when you, when you go away from them, you're more uplifted than before you showed up.

Tracie Root:

Yep. They invite you to something. Be a yes.

Caterina Rando:

Yes. Be a yes.

Tracie Root:

Yay. I love that. We're kind of wrapping on being a yes today because we're, you know, we're ready to take this onto the rest of our day and the rest of our week and the holiday season where we're at now here in our fancy reds. And, um, and going into 2025. So I'm thrilled that you were here with us. I know that, you know, we know how to find you, Katerina rando. com Facebook is a big place. LinkedIn is a big place. Of course, we'll have all of your links and things here in the notes. Yes.

Caterina Rando:

Okay, great. And everybody, CaterinaRando.com/links. Lots of free business building resources, information about my next free workshop. I would love to meet any gals. Tracie, any friend of yours is a friend of mine.

Tracie Root:

Same here. Okay. I love it. Thank you so much, my friend. Appreciate you so much. Thanks for everything that you have done and to all of you listeners out there. Thank you for listening to the Bold and Brilliant Podcast, and I hope our discussion today was just what you needed to take your next bold step forward toward your brilliant future. Cheers. Thank you for listening to the bold and brilliant podcast. I'm your host, TracieRoot, and I want to invite you to check out the show notes, find out where you can connect with our guests, find out more about what I and The Gather Community have to offer you, and be sure to subscribe to this podcast on your favorite platform. Thanks so much.