The BOLD and Brilliant Podcast with Tracie Root

The BOLD and Brilliant Podcast with Tracie Root, w/Guest Jen Vertanen

• Tracie Root • Season 1

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🎧 Episode Summary:

In this powerful and deeply human episode of the Bold and Brilliant Podcast, host Tracie Root sits down with Jen Vertanen, Chief of Staff at a health-tech startup and founder of We The Unruly. Jen shares the bold, vulnerable decision that reshaped her life, her marriage, and her relationship with herself.

Through an honest conversation about identity, healing, leadership, and community, Jen reveals how doing the inner work—not just the strategic work—created the clarity, confidence, and impact she lives and leads with today. This episode is a masterclass in courage, self-trust, and choosing alignment over performance.

If you’ve ever questioned your path, your choices, or who you’re becoming… this episode will remind you that bold decisions don’t always look flashy—but they do change everything.

✨ What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

  • Why admitting you’re wrong can be one of the most courageous leadership moves you’ll ever make
  • How identity work fuels clarity, confidence, and sustainable success
  • The role community plays in healing, growth, and bold reinvention
  • Why “finding your way” matters more than following someone else’s formula
  • How vulnerability strengthens relationships—in life and in business

🛠️ Actionable Tips from Jen Vertanen:

  • Create intentional “mirrors” in your life—people who can reflect truth back to you when self-doubt shows up
  • Stop outsourcing your answers and start building trust in your own inner wisdom
  • Give yourself permission to evolve without a deadline—identity work is ongoing
  • Choose environments (work, community, relationships) that support who you’re becoming
  • Lead with depth, not performance—real impact comes from authenticity

🎤 Memorable Quote:

"Find your mirrors and use them—so you can remember who the hell you are."

🔥 Bold Moment of the Episode:

Jen shares the moment she realized she was about to make a life-altering mistake—and chose radical honesty and vulnerability instead. Admitting she was wrong became the turning point that led to healing, deeper connection, and a decade of intentional identity work.

📱 Connect with Jen Vertanen:

  • We The Unruly Community & Movement: (links in show notes)
  • Instagram: @jenv_wetheunruly
  • Website: wetheunruly.com

🚀 Join the Bold and Brilliant Podcast Community:

If this episode sparked something in you, come join us inside The Gather Community—a space for women leaders and entrepreneurs who are ready to take bold action, build meaningful connections, and grow into their next chapter together.

👉 Learn more at thegather.community

🌟 Rate & Review:

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⭐ Rate, review, and subscribe on your favorite listening platform—and don’t forget to share this episode with a friend who needs the reminder that their bold moment might be closer than they think.


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xoxo
Your host,
Tracie Root

Tracie:

Are you ready for a bold conversation about identity, impact and becoming more of who you really are? In today's episode of the Bold and Brilliant Podcast, I sit down with Jen Vertanen, founder of We The Unruly, a community and movement for impact makers who are done with performative perfection and ready to lead with truth. Jen shares the pivotal, deeply vulnerable decision that changed everything. One that required her to admit she was headed down the wrong path, choose courage over ego, and begin a decade long journey of healing and identity work. You'll hear how redefining strength, finding the right support and creating powerful mirrors in community can help you remember who you are, especially when self-doubt creeps in. If you're building a mission-driven business or life, and you're craving deeper alignment, clearer self-trust, and a way forward, that actually feels like you, this episode is gonna land in all the right places. Welcome to the Bold and Brilliant podcast. Jen, I am way, I'm probably way too excited to welcome you to the podcast. I'm so glad to have you.

Jen:

Thank you so much. Uh, I don't know if you're more excited than I am though.

Tracie:

Well, okay. Well, we'll just kind of both sit here in that excitement moment. I have to say that for those of you who are watching on YouTube, don't we just love Jen's' fresh like self of the pink. But with the sweater especially, I am such a fan of your style. It's so fun. Oh, thank you to, it's fun to observe as someone who's been pink and like does also the bold persona. Mm-hmm. That to see other people show up that way, it's like, oh yeah. People might get a little bit of that from me too, so that's fun.

Jen:

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.

Tracie:

I love it. Okay, Jen? Well, we have been talking about doing this for a while and we've been in each other's universes probably for the last year-ish, I would say.

Jen:

Yeah, yeah.

Tracie:

Something like that. Um, and hadn't met in person until earlier this year. Yep. October online. I've been a part of you kind of creating this new we, the unruly community philosophy, like mm-hmm. The way of being in the world that helps everyone recognize that there's no box that we all have to fit in. Like there, like we don't have to not only not fit in a box, but there's no box. Like, forget it.

Jen:

Yeah. And for those listening in, uh, sometimes those who don't think they live in boxes, um, need reminders, right? Yeah, absolutely. And I say that I need it just as much as anyone else.

Tracie:

Well, and that's why we create what we create, right? Mm-hmm. So that we not only get the thing that we need, but after thinking about what we need, bringing that to other people to help them realize that it's okay to need this thing and join the other people who also need it. And now we're all together. Absolutely. We get to have a party. Yep. So, and even though you've been creating all of this, all this year. You and have been an entrepreneur for a while. How long?

Jen:

Uh, 14 years. But let's, let's 14 years. Let's, let's say entrepreneur ish. For 14 years

Tracie:

we've had a thing of your own. Yes. How that that is correct. For about 14 years. Yep. Which is about the same as me. I'm met like 13 and a half years, so we're, we're in a similar vein, but the difference is you still work in the real world of the corporate situations. And I do. And I departed. Probably not Advisably, so, um, when I started as well. But, so let's talk a little bit about you and like what you do outside of Jen Vertanen and imagining coach We The Unruly situation mm-hmm. That got you to deciding to make that, that. This community that you now have. So tell us like your origin story. What's the other part of you that we might not see every day and how'd you get here?

Jen:

Oh, goodness. Uh, well, there's a, the, the corporate side of me and I'm an odd duck in that I love my day job. Like, and you don't hear people say that a lot, which yeah, makes my heart hurt.

Tracie:

Well, it makes me happy for you.

Jen:

Well, yeah, happy for me. Yeah, absolutely. But I, I think of it as I have a unicorn role in a leadership, uh, a unicorn leadership team, a unicorn company, just everything aligned. That's why I love it. But I'm chief of staff of the coolest health tech startup, and, um, what that means is, you know, I heard cats, uh, they're Wiley. Unruly cats, if you will. Uh, but I love'em so much. But what brought,

Tracie:

how big is the staff that you're herding?

Jen:

Well, I mean, I, so I'm not over all the staff and I'm not over anyone. Actually. I, I get to play Switzerland. Um, so it's a small company, but what I wanna share is. That is from three plus decades in IT software development, specifically project management. So I tried to be a developer for a little bit and then, you know, I wasn't very good at that, so I moved into business analysis and then project management and, and you know, on up and what have you.

Tracie:

Yeah. Honestly, this is why we get along so well. Yeah. We always get along with the IT project managers. I was gonna say, because that was the facilities project manager.

Jen:

Right, right, right.

Tracie:

We had to work together, right?

Jen:

Yep, yep.

Tracie:

Okay. So keep going. That's, that's amazing. Yeah.

Jen:

But you know, in 2011, I, um, I left my then job, um, and I was like, I'm not working for the man and you know, blah, blah, blah. All this false bravado and confidence and. My mom funny. Funnily enough, she was really embarrassed that I was leaving and she told people, she told my, my former classmates that I had retired and I didn't learn about that till years later. I'm like, mom? She's like, well, I didn't know what to tell people. I was so embarrassed. I'm like, okay. Uh, so I left that the job, the corporate, she was embarrassed.'cause

Tracie:

you chose to leave. Yes. Like cushy unadvisedly. So.

Jen:

Probably. Yes, exactly. Exactly. Um, but anyway, I, I was moving into, I had learned about coaching. And I thought, well, I coach and mentor in my day job, so let's try that out. Right? Um, but what, what happened is I, I slipped into a very, one of probably my deepest depressions that I've ever had, and it, it lasted for a number of months. And so even though I, and this is why I say false bravado, right? On the outside, I looked like, yeah, I've got this, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. People are excited for me. I needed the time and space to have what I now is probably a, a, a nervous breakdown a little bit at the time of breakdown. Yeah. Yeah. But that set me on the path of exploring, coaching, and doing it from my own business. And the deeper I got into it, the more I loved it. And the part of, you know, I say entrepreneurial ish, is that I had the belief that this was something I could absolutely do and do from a sustainable business perspective. Um, but what I hadn't realized, and of course hindsight is such a gift, what I hadn't realized is I had so much trauma and wounds from childhood, from, you know, young adulthood that I needed to work on the, I needed to do the inner work first. Before I was really ready to leap into what people see now, which is, you know, strategic CEO of my business, making big, bold moves, um, you know, rubbing elbows with all the cool people and, and all of that. But it, you know, it's, it was not an overnight success, let's say that.

Tracie:

I think that that is not uncommon, right? Yeah. Like we have that drive to do something for ourselves, for our, our own, uh, you know, to kind of be in charge of our own future. Yeah. And. Maybe it's a, you know, gen X thing Right. Also that we wanna, you know, we're,

Jen:

we're feral to be good with,

Tracie:

we wanna be in charge of our shit, right? Yeah. So, um, and then to just stand up and go, okay, well I can do that. Mm-hmm. And go do it. Yeah. Without really being prepared, right? Like with ski, with, with the details of the business, but also,

Jen:

yeah. I call it emotional maturity.

Tracie:

Too bad we were 40 or whatever. I,

Jen:

yeah, yeah, exactly.

Tracie:

Yeah. Okay. So. So you started coaching, but mm-hmm. You also found a new position.

Jen:

I did. After 15 months of, uh, noting for the man, uh, some stuff was going on with my youngest and we decided to move her into private school education and we just, I was not bringing in near enough to, to be able to support that, and it really was the right thing for our family to do. Um, and so I went back into the workforce, but. I went in with a new set of boundaries. Mm-hmm. And, and, and this, it wasn't intentional. It's like I, in, I inherently knew. Um, but a new set of boundaries and a new, what am I willing, what type of environment am I willing to work with? What type of, you know, manager am I willing to work with? Um. What am I not right? And you know, being in it at that time it was, it was, you know, a privilege to be able to have that be able to, to. Leave something if it wasn't working for me. And I wanna acknowledge not everyone has that. Um, no, I would say it these days is very different, but back in those days, you didn't have to worry about landing a new gig like, like that.

Tracie:

Yeah. Yeah. Well, especially with the kind of experience that you had in your pocket. Mm-hmm. And the years of Exactly. Being able to, what you were bringing to the table.

Jen:

The relationships I had built. Yeah. Um, yeah.

Tracie:

Awesome. Um, and then so, okay, so you decided, so you got this new position, you were able to send your child to the school that you needed to do, and then there was some more family things that really became an upheaval moment. Yeah. Again, potentially didn't, yes. Did. Tell us a little bit about, because for everyone that's on the podcast, I wanna know, like we all make decisions. All the time that, especially in hindsight as you've been talking about, we can see how our track shifted at that moment with that decision. And so that was a big decision to take that job. Mm-hmm. In order to do what you needed to do for your child and for your family. Tell us more. Yeah, so 2015, uh, things really came to a head for me personally. And, uh, what, so I would, I was 45 at the time, and. I had not dealt with the inner stuff from, like I said, the trauma, the wounds, what have you, all the, you know, I Hmm. Not to get, I mean, I, I will go into it. Absolutely. I'm an open, but, but how much time do we wanna take? Right, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. But suffice it to say, um, I was raised, uh, being told I wasn't a very good person. I, you know, just, it was death by a thousand paper cuts. Right. And it's heartbreaking, but it's also not an uncommon story. Yeah, right. Unfortunately. But it was death by a thousand paper cuts and I always took on the role of I'm the warrior, I'm here to protect, uh, my mom, my brother, um, you know, and it's just all it did was built up all these walls and, you know, over the years and it's that outside looking in, it looks good, right. The inner. My inner, uh, painted a very different picture that was angry, resentful, bitter, heart, aching, loneliness. I did not like myself. I did not like my life. I had so much when I looked at my family. I, I loved my husband. But he almost became the effigy, if you will, of it's like he wasn't fixing for me what I needed. Yeah. What I needed him. So now he's the wrong one. He is, yeah. He is in the wrong, and so the, up until that point, I had done all sorts of things to, you know, healthy and healthy to, to try to fix myself, my life. And he was the one thing that I hadn't. Tried yet. And that was to leave him. And I thought, you know, I, I got pregnant at 19, so I, at that point I'd been raising babies for, you know, 25 years. I, I had my first at 20, uh, and this was, I was 45. And it felt like the, the last thing I could try to try to fix myself and give myself that freedom I, I craved, right? Like I can just. Not have to worry about anyone. I'll get my my kids part of the time. I won't have a spouse, you know? All of this. Yeah. Yeah. And again, on paper it seems like a, an answer that could work. It was like, no, duh. Yeah. And what I, what I, again, hindsight, this is how bad it was, is I was telling people I love him, but maybe when we're in our seventies, we can remarry again. I would find, um, I would find articles like stories of people who had actually done that. Right. And I'd present them to him and. Yeah. Like, see, people have made this work and he was like, that's not what I want, Jen. That's not what I want. You know, I, if I, I love you, but if we're gonna be together, we're gonna like, we're gonna be together, or I'm gonna move on, you know, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. Uh, and so I, I had this decision that I'd made, and again, this false bravado and confidence, um, but this was my persona. This is what I was used to, right? I was the one who made big, bold moves, decisions, all of that. I even, I'm just gonna do it. Just gonna do it. Yep.

Jen:

I even had an apartment that I had paid a couple of months rent on, and I wasn't living there yet, but I was starting to furnish it. So the night we told, or the day we told our, our daughter who was 11 at the time, she was the last kiddo at home. Um, it was it. A very hard day, as you can imagine. Yeah. Um, and that night I went to bed and it was just over and over and over again. Well, I tried to go to bed, but over and over it was like, you don't want this, you don't want this. You're making a mistake. You wanna Right. And, and the plan was that, that next day I was actually gonna move into the apartment. But all that night, over and over, that's all I heard. You're making a big mistake. So my husband woke up the next morning and I, I shared with him and that. Was so incredibly difficult because that was a level of vulnerability. Mm-hmm. Oh

Tracie:

yeah. Were you, were you admitted Yeah. That you were rethinking your decision Yeah. That you had made?

Jen:

Yeah. Wow. Sorry, I gotta wipe my nose a little bit. It's chilly here in Minnesota. Uh, but it was, you know, oh. And to show I felt like the weakest person. Um. But it's like I had to do this for myself because I realized I was making such a big mistake. I, it was so bad inside my head that I was willing to walk away from the person who had only ever had my back, who had only ever loved me. Like he, he was the person who loved me no matter what.

Tracie:

Yeah. And so

Jen:

who saw through the stories, who saw through. The things I did and you know, the behavior because I, again, I was kind of this tough exterior of a shell and he, he saw the potential in me and loved me no matter what. So

Tracie:

that's so wonderful. That's such, thank you. It's a great story. And so like you thought that making a change with him was going to fix

Jen:

Yeah. I'll have the freedom. What is

Tracie:

going on in here? Right? Yeah. Yeah. And, and to admit that to his face. Yeah. After all the discussions that you'd already had. That's so brave and amazing. Mm-hmm. And so like, what was the next step? Like,'cause this is a big, this is a big fork in the road. You were about to, to move out and you didn't move out. And, you know, did he know that you were paying for that apartment? Well,

Jen:

yes. Yes.

Tracie:

Yeah.

Jen:

Yep. Uh, yeah. It, you know, what happened next? It was, it was, it was hard to tell him. That was definitely a brave moment. But getting myself to admit to myself Yeah. That I was making a mistake that was even harder. Yeah, of course. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. So the next step is we said, okay, before we tell our daughter, and, you know, the, the other kiddos, the, um, the ones who are outta the house, we're gonna take a week. We wanna make sure this isn't like a knee jerk emotional, but you don't really, really mean it. Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, so that's what we did. And we just, we talked a lot. Right. And we agreed that. We're going to go to marriage counseling just to learn how to communicate with each other again. Right? And, um, and so that is what we did. We, you know, and he said, if we stay together, you, you are promising you will not do this again. Um, you know, and I made that promise, but also what I was going through was the guilt of. Telling our, our family, right? The, our, our young daughter at home and the two older kiddos and our friends and our extended family. I had put people through this. And so I carried a lot of guilt around that, of course, that I had to untangle and unwind and make peace with that and, and what have you. Uh, yeah, 2015 was, you know, I started the year I, I knew that I was, um, planning on, on divorcing and I started the year I, all my passwords was 2015 is my year, and it did become my year, but in very different ways. Yeah.

Tracie:

So that's wild. So in telling the family and the extended family and the friend and, you know, you had that, that decision to, to make the vulnerable admission to your husband Yeah. That you knew that you were wrong.

Jen:

Yeah.

Tracie:

And now you had to tell everyone else that you were

Jen:

wrong. Yeah. Oh, Tracie, you told the

Tracie:

entire planet of your world that you were wrong.

Jen:

That was so hard. Like had that ever happened before? No, not like that. Right. I mean, even when I got up pre pregnant at 19, you know, I, I You were like, yeah, it was quiet. Know? Yeah. Oh my gosh. It, you know, yeah. It was, it was an interesting time, you know, and there was a lot of. What I didn't realize. So I did not grow up in a safe, what I'd call a safe family, right? For all sorts of reasons. But when I became a mom, it was very important to me that I did not bring, you know, those things forward, right? And so my daughter. The only world she ever knew was her mom and dad and her brothers and such safety. Yeah. Right. That's all she knew. And I was gonna rip that out from her underneath her because I wasn't thinking about it from her perspective. And so then it's the guilt over being selfish, right? Yeah, of

Tracie:

course.

Jen:

All of that.

Tracie:

Yeah. And with her being 11,

Jen:

yeah. You know, that's still

Tracie:

very young, very formative years. Very like hard to understand adult things, even though they think absolute that they're 20.

Jen:

Yeah. Yeah.

Tracie:

Yeah. Amazing. So, okay, so you said 2015 is gonna be your year?

Jen:

Yep.

Tracie:

It became your year.

Jen:

It did.

Tracie:

How so? Like what? Ooh, what happened next?

Jen:

Yeah. Yeah. So we decided our, our middle one had graduated high school and we decided we were going to move and we wanted to move into the city and. The house we we bought that we're still in now it, it has these, it's a 1905 Victorian Foursquare, but it has beautiful hardwood and yeah, it has these creaky wood floors. Okay. And the realtor was like, oh. And I'm like, no, I actually love these. Because it brought me back to feel of when I did feel safe in my childhood. And that was at my great-grandmother's house. She had creaky wood floors. And so I like to think of this house as it is the home. That, that held me as I was healing. Mm-hmm. And now I know exactly what home feels like.

Tracie:

Oh,

Jen:

this gets me a little, Hmm. That's

Tracie:

so beautiful.

Jen:

I know what home feels like. So wherever I go from now on, it doesn't matter the place. I know the feeling of home. Yeah, it gets me a little emotional.

Tracie:

Beautiful. I love that. Yeah. So, okay, so you moved into this new house. Yes. You moved into the city.

Jen:

Yep. Yep. And you know, it's, I like to say it was 10 years of identity work of, you know, I don't like who I've been, I don't really know who I am. And this goes a little bit to my human design, FYI, that the not know it, but I didn't know that at the time. Which is Which is what? Well, I'm a six two manifesting generator, but the only center I have undefined is my. I think it's the g it's your identity center. And so it's like, oh, no wonder. I dunno, I don't know enough to really even know what you're talking

Tracie:

about, but now it's documented. And when I learned, there we go. I know.

Jen:

There we go. Um, but it was like, I don't like who I've been, I don't know who I am. And so it, the question became, who do I wanna be? And my work has been for myself, has been becoming that person. Yeah. So 2015 was, it literally was the start of that, you know, and, and some people might be listening and be like, oh my gosh, a decade. My argument is I get to have this the rest of my life. Yeah. Like why would I not if you, you know, if I had set out and made this into a smart goal and tried to assign a time to it, you know, and if a year went by and I wasn't, you know, and I'd give it up, I'm like, no, I get to have this the rest of my life.

Tracie:

You know, identity work isn't. It's always evolving, so there's nothing you can, you can put a timeframe to, I'm going to, you know, go through this process for this next year. Right. But ultimately it's the kind of thing where you say, and we'll see where we are then.

Jen:

Yeah. And maybe go on

Tracie:

from there because, and Tracie, I don't, I

Jen:

don't know if you know why I have pink hair. No, tell me. Okay. So when I, I had this vision and when did that, when did you start? Well, it was a couple years ago, but if we go back to 2015, and I, you know, I, I, I, I saw these two paths of this bitter, old, resentful, angry woman that no one wanted to come to my funeral. My children didn't wanna, and that felt like a very real path that I was headed down. And then I saw the, the other side of what, like people would see in me. Right? Funny, you know. Sparkle in my eye, like all of those things. And I'm like, that's who I wanna be more of. Right? My 80-year-old self who's like getting into all sorts of shenanigans. So anyway, fast forward a few years and I'm on Pinterest. I, I love, I love photos of beautiful older women. I love that. Like I, um, I just love it. And I saw this woman with pink hair in her eighties and I'm like, oh. I want pink hair in my eighties. And then I was like, well, wait, why can't, you know, 52-year-old Jen have pink hair? And so that's how the pink hair came to be.

Tracie:

Yeah. I love that. Amazing. And that, it's a similar story, right? When I mm-hmm. Was in, I actually started with teal and Okay. Through all of the different colors. Um, but, uh, but I started, also started small because I saw someone on stage speaking at an event that I was at with full mermaid.

Jen:

Ooh. Situation. I love mermaid hair. And she's

Tracie:

like a former, like military. I don't know if she was a marine or what she was, but she was badass. So great on stage, like really inspirational. And I was just like, that's awesome. That is, yeah. And I want some. And that's when I started doing my hair. Yeah. But for me it's been 10 years.

Jen:

Okay.

Tracie:

Of their variety until I decided to be curly. And then I'll let the curls do their,

Jen:

do their talking. I love your curly hair. The um, the reason I have a vintage motorcycle jacket from the early eighties is because I saw a photo of, you know, again, this older woman probably in her seventies, eighties. And I'm like, I want a vintage leather jacket. You know? Yeah. And so it's a lot of the external, but it's all a reflection of the internal Yes. Right.

Tracie:

Yeah. I mean, you know, we say, and that's, you know, I got asked a lot like, why, why do you have purple hair, pink hair, whatever color it was at the time? And it's like, yeah. Part of it is, I, I enjoy being center of attention, honestly. Yeah. Like, you know, being on stage and being a performer and all those things. And it's like the. It's the bold self. Mm-hmm. Like growing out of your hair follicles. Like it's, yeah. It's seeping through your pores.

Jen:

Yeah. To

Tracie:

become and to show like who you are on the inside, on the outside. Right. Even though it's an external. Application'cause. Right. Unfortunately, we weren't actually born with the colors in our hair.

Jen:

Well, I, well,

Tracie:

okay. Tracie was

Jen:

with

Tracie:

I know, but I was born with the curls, so I love that. I love that. But you know, I used to have a very bright, it's really who you are. Not that you're trying to show off, but that it's just Right. You feel more you and remind you that you're,

Jen:

yeah. You know, recently I asked my uncle at Thanksgiving, what was I like as a little kid, like at five, because I don't remember. He's like, you were very giggly and playful, and that was such a gift to hear that 50 years later, because that's like the inner kiddo has come out. Mm-hmm. Because she is healed enough.

Tracie:

Yay. Yeah. Awesome. I love it. Okay, so. That's amazing. I love all of this story. And so you're working in your job. You're, it's a lot, Tracie. It's a lot. Right. You're working in that, that regular job, you, you're still coaching. You got the new house. This is 10 years ago. When did the idea of creating We the unruly begin? Yeah. And like tell us about that journey.

Jen:

Yeah, so I've always known there was this umbrella. That I wanted my work to, to fit under. I didn't wanna be coach Jen. I wanted this umbrella, but I didn't have words for it. Right? But I knew it was there. So April 15th, 2025, uh, my 15 fifth birthday, I sit with myself and I'm like, where am I not giving? W what do I really, really, really want? And I've asked myself that before. I love that question. And this time the answer finally came for the umbrella. And, uh, it's been magical ever since. And it's a lot of work, especially with day job, you know, bringing this, this umbrella of a, an, of an idea, a concept. I call it a movement. Uh, all of the things. Um. It's a labor of love and I am just having the time of my life, but that's when it came to me.

Tracie:

I love that. And it's the, you know, it's like the, it's when the blur becomes more clear. Yeah. Right? Yeah. You have this idea that becomes a. I don't wanna say like an idea, a vision. That becomes a plan. That becomes an action. Because that's way too structured for your Yeah, yeah. And really process. But it's, but it's, but it's there somewhere. It's there in that big idea and it's getting clearer and clearer and now you find the words to speak to it. Yeah. Find the imagery. My gosh. Your imagery, my girl. It's the best. Like that is, I have to say, that is what I really. In watching you Yeah. And all of this unfold. Yeah. This last six months, eight months, whatever it's been. Um, it's, it's so fun as someone who's in business also mm-hmm. To see the clarity of brand

Jen:

Yeah.

Tracie:

And how you. Show that to the world and it's so good. Like it's just, thank you. Yeah. It's really, really great. Thank you. Um, it's, and it's inspiring not only to the people who are in your community who feel mm-hmm. That they align with the idea of being unruly. Yeah. But also to anyone else who has a business who can say, wow, this like brand mm-hmm. Really knows who they are mm-hmm. And knows how to speak to their client. And this is such an important business skill. And right, and not everyone has that. The marketing is so natural for you.

Jen:

Well, but again, what was behind that was 14 years and 10 years of intense identity work. That's what, that's what's behind that. Uh, and that's, you know, identity work has always been a piece of, of my work. Um, but it's like now that I'm on the other side of all that and I, you know, the things are coming a lot more easily and, and all of that, and like that is a key fundamental foundational element, um, for folks that really want to embody their business and what they're about. Yeah,

Tracie:

I agree. I agree. I think that there's the,'cause it's everyone. I don't wanna say everyone's in like two camps, but you know, those of us, especially in the coaching world where we are our business mm-hmm. We need to know who we are. Yeah. In order to show up like that, as that for our clients and in our business.

Jen:

Yeah. That level of clarity, power, influence. Absolutely.

Tracie:

And then you have folks who, like, they made a company and that company is this, this, this, but it's, but it's not them. Right. Yeah. It's like stuff or things, but it's not attached to their personal self. Yeah. And it's not the same. Yeah. And I'm not saying that they can't also be successful because that's absolutely a different category of business

Jen:

in a

Tracie:

sense. Right.

Jen:

But I know, I know of a lot of coaches who. Haven't done that level of identity work yet. And they, they really want the business. They're doing all the things and things aren't clicking and it, they're frustrated and all of that. Right. And I just, what, what I think of is all the impacts left on the table because people don't. Do that. The work. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And you know, I call it unruly with purpose. Like my work is for impact makers, people who create belonging for others, founders, visionaries, thought leaders, artists, healers, coaches, like all of that. Right. And it's people that are mission-driven and you know, unruly is fun, but it's with a purpose.

Tracie:

Yeah. And at the same time, a little irreverent.

Jen:

Oh, absolutely. Or a lot of

Tracie:

reverent. Yeah. It's, you know, but like, it's totally cheek purpose. Purpose, and I reverence mm-hmm. Are living in the same space, because that's me. Yeah. Right. That's me. And I think that the, the folks who haven't figured that out for themselves yet are kind of maybe doing what they've been told or what they see in others and their, they're emulating others mm-hmm. And haven't figured out their own. And that's. Like if that, I think that's like the lesson for this episode is Yeah, if you, if you aren't feeling totally aligned with what you're doing, yeah. Then, then change it.

Jen:

Yeah.

Tracie:

And maybe it also includes changing yourself, not yourself doing the inner work yourself, but understanding yourself.

Jen:

Understanding, yeah. I,

Tracie:

yeah. I don't mean change yourself, like change who you are, but like change your relationship to yourself.

Jen:

Your relationship to yourself. And this is why I love disco balls, because ball's, all these mirrors, right? And we need have a little one. Have a little Oh, I love that. Yeah. We need mirrors. Uh, and we need to be mirrors for others. Right. And the other day I had people mirror something back to me where I was fitting myself into a box that does not fit me, but I, you know. Sometimes we, we don't see those things. And so how can we be mirrors for each other and help each other remember who the hell you are.

Tracie:

Yep.

Jen:

Right. And I need it, like I said, just this last, and I'm so grateful that there, you know, gently pointed out like, Hey, that that kind of doesn't fit within your unru. I'm like, oh my God, you're right. Why am I doing that? Yeah,

Tracie:

yeah. Well, and. The idea. And that's why building a community underneath or around all of these mm-hmm. Ideas and philosophies and, and self understandings is why that works so well. Because all of the people mm-hmm. Like, not everyone's gonna notice that, but someone, well, mm-hmm. And that's like one of the, one of the mirrors on the ball. So I love the idea of the disco ball. This is, this is new in my brain. The idea of the disco ball. Yeah. Emulating the community itself. Ooh, yeah. Is the one of the mirrors. Yeah. You have to count how many mirrors are on that ball now? Oh my gosh.

Jen:

No.

Tracie:

You can use a Sharpie and like dot them. I have a process for you. I have a very linear, straightforward process that you could follow. Okay. Oh, thanks Tracie. Uh, I think I'm good. I have some how many? Yeah. You know, and, and it might take a, that kind of a level of impact and influence and mm-hmm. Reach. To get to all of the perspectives that help us all. Absolutely. Be all of ourselves. I love that. I love that too. That was really exciting. You're brilliant. Thank you. Well, it's because I'm talking to you. Um, this is amazing. I wanna ask you about how people can understand and get to know you. Mm-hmm. And We The Unruly better and connect with you further. I know we'll put information in the show notes and that kind of thing, but let's hear it from you. Like you already said, all of the people and the healers and the coaches and mm-hmm. Change makers and all of the people that we then really is for, what are you doing for all those people and what are you all doing together?

Jen:

Ooh, that is so good. So in community, what people are loving about the community, and this is the, these are all very intentional, is that, uh, I have you show up as peers so often, you know, you can look up to people, but we make people, our guru, our teacher, our, you know, it's like, nope. We are all peers. We each have our own thought leadership. Uh, we each need to take up. The amount of space at the table that we need. Right? But also there is a depth. Check your filters, check the performative nonsense at the door. We are here to be deep in community. Um, and by that I mean we're not like, oh yeah, everything's fine. No, no, no. It's like, no, we're, we're, we're, we're being more raw and vulnerable. This is the place you come when you don't. You know, it it the strong women who need other strong women, right? Like these are the people that get it. These are the cycle breakers, the ones who've been underestimated. The too much, the not enough. Like we're gonna bring all of that into the container and people are loving the depth, um, that we go. Uh, I don't know if you're

Tracie:

gonna start off. This phase of life by telling everyone in your life that you were wrong, you better find a place to be able to keep talking about it, because yeah, we're wrong all the time.

Jen:

Yeah, yeah. But just that place that you can be really honest with yourself. Mm-hmm. And with others and be witnessed and supported. You know, we do business strategy, we do identity work. We do. Holy rages. Like,'cause sometimes rage is productive and you know, but it's like, what are you gonna do about it now? You know? Yeah. Uh, but it, you know, it's, we helped with people make impacts. One of my favorite things we do, I call it the, the, your name way. Trademark. So it would be finding the Tracie Way, right? Mm-hmm. Because we are fed personal development, productivity hacks, life hacks, like, and those, are we doing it like that person

Tracie:

or that person or that person? Or that person? What about me? Yeah. And those things aren't going

Jen:

bad, right or wrong, but. You find your own silver bullet. Yeah. When you figure out what works for you, right? When you have a discernment filter that you can put everything through and say, is this for me or is this not for me? Does this move me closer or does it move me further away? So many people are outsourcing and I understand it'cause I did it for so long. They're outsourcing their answers, right? Instead of like. Taking learning and then applying it to yourself. It's outsourcing, oh, this person told me to do this. That's what I'm gonna do. Yeah. That didn't work out. So now I'm gonna go to this person and they're gonna tell me what to do and I'm gonna do it. And that didn't work out. You're not spending the time, the energy, the resources, finding your way.

Tracie:

Yeah.

Jen:

And that's the work I love. That's like the definition,

Tracie:

it's like the definition of thought leadership, right? Yeah. Like it's your own thought. Yeah. Leading you. Yeah. Yeah. To where you have decided that you actually want to go and not Exactly.

Jen:

And that is my thought leadership is helping others find that silver bullet within themselves, right? Identity, courage. You know, belief, like all of those things. And then from there, the actual creation of what you want, whether it's business, personal, profe, like any of that becomes so much easier and enjoyable.

Tracie:

Yeah. So good. So good. Thank you. So I was thinking as I was saying that, or, uh, I was thinking, you know, about the idea of mentorship and people that are our mentors, whether we've ever met them or not, right? Mm-hmm. Books that we've read, podcasters. Celebrities, whatever, they've done all the things or whatever, and we can take those pieces. But ultimately, like you said, if we don't put those through the filter of, is it actually for me or is it just Yeah, pretty shiny.

Jen:

Yeah.

Tracie:

Successful over there,

Jen:

you know, and like personal development. It's not good, bad, right or wrong, but we would not have a, what is it? Like an 8 billion a year industry, if what was out there was working for folks.

Tracie:

Yeah.

Jen:

We want.

Tracie:

Yeah. Right. Because the people are always still looking for more.

Jen:

Yeah. They're, they're, they're, you know, intaking all these inputs because the work is, can feel hard. It can feel scary. It can feel, and like human beings, we are not wired for that. Yeah. But that is the work,

Tracie:

and that's why, that's why I love

Jen:

Yeah, go ahead.

Tracie:

Yeah. Well, I was gonna say, that's why I love coaching, because mm-hmm. I feel like you have to be. Like one-on-one or in small groups. Mm-hmm. To really get to that place where, yeah. If you're doing something big like a po, I mean, yeah. I'm not saying my podcast is big, but you know, you do a podcast and it's like broadcasting to the masses and hopefully someone will get something. Yeah. That will take a nugget in a direction.

Jen:

Yep.

Tracie:

But it's not the answer. Right. Right. It's not gonna

Jen:

help you embody

Tracie:

Yeah.

Jen:

The word. Yep.

Tracie:

I love that. Beautiful.

Jen:

Okay, so good, Tracie.

Tracie:

We're gonna make sure that everyone can find you, you know, all of the links. Yeah. And all of those things. And before I, I wanna leave you with the last word, but before we do that, I just wanna thank you for being here.

Jen:

Thank you because

Tracie:

we've been looking forward to this for like a month or something on the calendar. Yep. Off and on. And I knew that this was gonna be such a fun conversation'cause every time I'm with you I am like extra juice to go like, have an impact. Aw, thanks Tracie. Fun and I appreciate that and you're welcome. But I also thank you. Um, I do wanna leave you with the final word. Like what? Any last words.

Jen:

Oh my gosh. Find your mirrors. I had to use my husband this morning to be a mirror for me. Uh, I woke up not feeling it. I woke up down and doubting myself, and I knew who to go to for support. Find your mirrors and use them, and so you can remember who, and hopefully they're easily accessible. Right, right, right. But you know, whether it's a coach, a therapist, a friend that like find, even if it's one or two people, find those people and allow yourself to be vulnerable enough.'cause in my opinion, vulnerable is strength. Be vulnerable enough to say, Hey, I could use a bit of a boost. Hey, can you help me remember who the FI am?

Tracie:

I love that.

Jen:

Thank you.

Tracie:

Thank you. Um, Jen Vernan, I'm saying it again so everyone knows how to say your name.

Jen:

Yeah, you got it right.

Tracie:

Jen Ton. Thank you for being on the podcast. I appreciate you and I am so inspired by you. And thank you, Tracie. I'm so glad that we're connected. Thank you again.

Jen:

Well, and ditto. I can't wait to turn the tables and have you on.

Tracie:

Thank you for listening to the Bold and Brilliant podcast. I'm your host, Tracie Root, and I wanna invite you to check out the show notes, find out where you can connect with our guests, find out more about what I and the Gather community have to offer you, and be sure to subscribe to this podcast on your favorite platform. Thanks so much.