How to Find Peace After Losing Your Spouse, with Michelle Bader Ebersole

After losing her husband of 17 years to cancer, Michelle Bader Ebersole found herself walking through overwhelming grief, unanswered questions, and the painful silence that follows loss. In this powerful episode of Living Testimonies, Michelle shares how God met her in the valley, transformed her pain into purpose, and brought beauty from ashes.

Out of her heartbreak came her book Widow Goals and a growing community and nonprofit dedicated to helping widows not just survive—but truly thrive. Michelle’s testimony is a reminder that even in our darkest moments, God is still writing a redemptive story. If you’re navigating loss, hardship, or waiting on God for healing, this conversation will speak hope straight to your heart.                                                  __________________________________________________________________________________________________

Links to Connect with Michelle:

Books:

https://widowgoals.org/

https://mybook.to/widowgoals

https://mybook.to/widowgoalsworkbook

https://mybook.to/widowgoalsleadersguide

Social Media:

https://www.instagram.com/widowgoals/

https://www.tiktok.com/@widowgoals

https://www.facebook.com/michelle.bader.ebersole

Email:

michelle@widowgoals.org

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

Transcript

Israel Caminero 0:05

Before we jump into today's episode, I just want to take a moment to thank all of you who've been listening, sharing, and supporting the Living Testimonies Podcast. Your love, your prayers, and your encouragement truly keep this ministry moving forward. If you haven't already, make sure you like, share, and subscribe so you don't miss any of the powerful stories God is using to touch lives. And if the podcast has blessed you, I want to encourage you this year to share it with just one person who might need hope or encouragement. You never know how God could use that simple step to change a life. My goal for 2026 is simple: to reach hearts in places we haven't reached yet. New communities, new listeners, and people who desperately need to hear that God is still moving. With your help and with every share, we can grow this ministry far beyond what any of us could imagine. Before we begin, I want to speak a quick blessing over you, which is found in Philippians chapter 4, verse 7. May the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, guard your heart and your mind in Christ Jesus. I pray this episode brings you hope, strength, and a fresh reminder of God's faithfulness. Now, with hearts open and expectations high, let's step into today's story. Welcome to Living Testimonies. I'm your host, Israel Caminero. I hope everyone that's listening is blessed and doing well. On this podcast, we share real stories of triumph, faith, and hope. Stories that show how God turns even the hardest season into his glory. Today I'm excited to introduce a very special guest who's journaling for inspire anyone to navigate life talented. Her name is Michelle Bader Ebersole. Michelle, can you introduce yourself to the listeners in your own words?

Michelle Bader Ebersole 2:09

Well, thanks, Israel, for having me today. I need to be here and share with your audience. So um I am a mom of three kids who are now almost all adults. One will turn 18 next week, one is um 19, and one's 21. And I live in Washington State, and I have been widowed. I was widowed in 2020, and now I'm remarried to my husband Joel at 23. And I was a teacher, but my whole life direction changed after my husband Luke died, and now I work full-time with widows. I have a nonprofit for widows where we provide groups and retreats and podcasts and support people. It's uh widows helping widows not only survive but thrive. So, in a nutshell, that's it. Um, my direction changed because my life changed, and you know, God uses everything, and so I'm able to use the things that I've been through to help others.

Israel Caminero 3:01

Amen. Amen. And that's where we're here to hear is uh her testimony, how all this came about. But before we do that, I'd like to pray over us and say, Lord, we thank you for bringing us together today. Thank you for the gift of stories that heal, encourage, and point hearts to you. We pray that anyone listening will feel your presence, be encouraged in their walk, and gain wisdom for whatever challenges they're facing. May this conversation inspire hope, faith, and practical action in our lives. Bless Michelle as she shares and bless every listener who's tuning in. In Jesus' name, amen. Okay, so Michelle, to start, can you share what a day in your life was like growing up?

Michelle Bader Ebersole 3:45

Growing up was good. I had a great, great childhood. Um, we always had property, um, whether it was five acres or more and animals and all of that stuff. I grew up in a Christian home, um became saved when I was four after my grandma died, and I wanted to know where she went, and my mom explained all of that. And I always went to a Christian school, and um I grew up with two older brothers, so they like to pick on me, but it was all good. So, I mean, my life was pretty great up until I was uh 24. Uh pretty, pretty good childhood.

Israel Caminero 4:21

But then you're 24, and what happened? You went to college and things changed.

Michelle Bader Ebersole 4:26

No, no, I got married. Oh, and my and my husband got diagnosed with cancer. That's when my life changed. Like I had never known anything really hard. I thought I had, it's all relative, right? If you have been through things, you think that's the hardest thing ever until you've been through things. And so at that point, you know, I'd never lost anyone close to me. Um, well, I never had anyone close to me become sick um with cancer. And so it was it was devastating. We got married. Um, he was 25, I was 24. He had a walking route as a mail carrier, noticed a lump in his ankle, went to the doctor, and they're like, Oh, it's 10 to 90s, don't worry about it. But it kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And then they finally said, Let's do a biopsy. And that's when they said that he had mesinchymal chondrosarcoma, which is a very rare bone cancer, typically found in children, and they didn't really know how to treat it. So we just started chemo, and you know, my whole world was rocked. I had just gotten married. So we got married, and then two months later we got pregnant, and then a few months after that, he got diagnosed with cancer. So it was all very quick. And um, my whole life changed, and I was it was really, really hard. And he went through chemo and it didn't work, and so they decided to do an amputation. So he had his leg amputated just below his knee, his right leg. And that was a whole life change too, because he'd been like all-star athlete, like really active to going to figuring out how to walk again. The good thing about that day is we considered him cancer free because the cancer was only in his ankle, it was not all over his body at that point. And so that was May 7th of 2004. We would always celebrate that day as cancer free. And we celebrated 13 years cancer free, and he started having some pain, went back into the doctor and scanned him and found some uh tumors in his lungs. And so it was the same bone cancer, but in his lungs. And um, that was devastating because this time we had three kids and they knew about his first journey through cancer. I had already written a book and they'd read it all. At the time, my kids were, I believe, 9, 11, and 13 when we found out about his cancer again. And so sitting them down and telling them about, you know, we're gonna do chemo, we're gonna do all this stuff, which he said he would never want it to do chemo again, but there really was nothing else. He's like, I just want to fight this, whatever we can do. So we started the chemo, and I think he did it about maybe six months, and it didn't, it didn't shrink the the tumors, it just made him sick. So we decided to go off of that, and it was a total of about three years from the time of the second diagnosis to when he passed away. Um, it was during COVID, so really hard time. Um the we look at the good part though. My kids were all home from school. We spent every day with Luke, every day we were together because there was no place to go. And that part is a gift. We look at that and like, you know, we got extra time with daddy. And um, on May 23rd, 2020, um, surrounded by us, he took his last breath and it was very peaceful and beautiful. And God gave me a supernatural peace. There's no other way to explain it that I wasn't crying, I was like guiding my kids through this and like talk to him, he can hear you, and you know, just really able to help them through the whole process. And and he died suddenly because um we thought we had about another month left, and he ended up dying of a blood clot. And so um it was, you know, cut short. But then we look at the positive also that he didn't go through his total decline because he did not want that, you know. But it was a shock that morning waking up my kids and they're like, No, it's not time. I'm like, Yeah, it is. And we were able to surround him, his mom was there, my parents came. It was very peaceful, you know. I was able to help the kids through that. It wasn't until the kids all left the room and it was just Luke's body and myself and my mom that I really broke down and just lost it, and finally was able to just get all of the tears out, and then I was a widow, and I went from being married for almost 17 years to being a widow, and that was like a complete shock. Even though I knew that he was dying, I still like you're just not prepared for the moment that you know, somebody their soul leaves them, and you're just left in this, like there's a such an emptiness. And even though I've been guiding my kids through this and we prayed every single night, we prayed for daddy's healing, but they knew that was either gonna be here on earth or it was gonna be in heaven, but one way or another he was gonna be healed, and so it was, you know, I didn't want to set them up for because some people like you gotta just tell them that he's gonna be healed here. I'm like, but I don't know that. I don't want them to hate God. And so they, you know, they knew, like, yes, we were extremely sad, but we were very happy for him. Like, he is not in pain anymore, you know. We try to focus on the good and all of that stuff, but it was um, it was a very, very dark time. Um just like the first few days were kind of a blur, and um, I just didn't even know which ways up and down, and like I had my best friend there and my family, and they helped me with the kids. At that time, when my kids died, I mean when my husband died, my kids were 12, 14, and 15, um, which are really hard ages. Anyways, my family was able to surround me and help me with all the things, all the logistics. But it was hard because it was COVID too, so there were a lot of restrictions on everything, and there wasn't any like um support groups available in person or anything like that. There was, you know, I did some Zoom stuff, but it was a a dark time. What I tell people is like personally for me, for grief, in the beginning, it was like a dark, dark clouds every single day. And then one day there's like a little break of sunshine, and you're like, oh, there is still life out there. And then as you start healing, there starts to be like, oh, this day had like an hour of a sunbreak until eventually where I am now, five and a half years later, I feel like it's sunny most days, and then I'll have those, you know, the clouds they come in and I I grieve and I cry, and then it's back to sunny. And so it's it's been a process. Um, definitely God healing my heart. That's the only explanation to where I am today. I have completely seen him turn my morning to dancing and make beauty from ashes and you know, heal me. And so as I started to heal, I wanted to help other people because I'm like, if God did this for me, like I want to share that. And I was involved in a Facebook widow group for widows and widowers, and um, I met a widower and we really connected. Our um spouses had both died from cancer, and so and we were both Christians, and we decided we wanted to start a podcast because we're like, these people need Jesus, like we watched them, like turned all the wrong things. And so um, 11 months after Luke died, I started a podcast called Widow Too Soon, and it's still going now. And um, we just started talking through widow life, like him as a widower, me as a widow, him with little kids, me with teenagers, and just started talking about what it's like. And eventually we started bringing on guests, and that has grown to an amazing platform to be able to reach widows and widowers all over the world. And then I also decided that I wanted to start a nonprofit for widows because my problem was I couldn't find any groups for widows, and I called all the churches, which is crazy because widows are mentioned over 103 times in the Bible, or exactly 103. And there's so few groups for widows, and I could not believe that. And so I started about three years ago, maybe it's getting close to four. I started my nonprofit widow goals, which is widows helping widows not only survive but thrive. And we just started meeting in homes and um we had a group last night. Uh, we meet the third Monday of every month, and it's just a time to get together, have fun. We did a Christmas party before, we did Thanksgiving, we did this game called Bunkle last night. Like it's just a fun time to get together. Um, you know, and so I was able to do that. Also wrote a book for widows, like just basically my whole life changed from being an elementary teacher to a teacher of widows. And um, I dove into learning about grief. I became a grief recovery specialist and I started helping people through their grief. And where I'm at today, um actually literally today, um, we have a retreat coming up this week. We have 72 widows coming, and it's gonna be an amazing time of God's healing, worship. We're gonna get to know each other well. We have 17 small groups. Like I just wanted to provide a space where people could come and just be poured into. And so I'm super excited about that. So that's a little bit, I guess I went way ahead from your your question about when life changed when I was 24 to kind of where I am today and why I'm passionate about helping widows, because I know what it's like to be a widow and be very lost and lonely. Because before I was widowed, I thought all widows were like 70s, 80s. Like I was 41 when I became widowed, and I found out there was a whole bunch of people just like me who were searching for somebody to get it because all of a sudden it was like my friends and family don't get this. Like I love my friends, but they all have their husbands, and it was just like such a lonely place. So finding my people, like these are my best friends now, um, has been amazing and just showing them like how to reach out to God and how to do that because that's really what it was. In the very beginning, I would just turn on worship music and cry. And imagine I was sitting on Jesus' lap and just pour out my heart, and he always met me there. Like he really does have a heart for widows, like talks about in the Bible. Now, my passion is showing other people that and helping them, you know, to get to a place of healing. In fact, the name of our retreat, the theme is morning to dancing. And we're actually going to be doing dancing. We have line dancing that's gonna happen. It's in Texas, so we decided to get an instructor and do that one night. Um, and you know, just showing people that they don't have to stay in this dark and lonely place and that God can take this, like there's no pain wasted. Like we're able to take what we've been through and help other people. Anyways, that's a little bit of my story to answer your question.

Israel Caminero 14:43

Well, that that's a lot of your story, not a just a little bit. True. I want to go back a little bit when you said um all this happened during COVID, which of course it was a hard time just being COVID, as far as everything being shut down and family. Uh you especially, you said he passed away during COVID, correct?

Michelle Bader Ebersole 15:05

Yes.

Israel Caminero 15:06

Was the family allowed to be at the funeral or anything like that?

Michelle Bader Ebersole 15:11

Um, yeah, okay. So he was in hospice, we died at home, which was good. He wanted to be together, and then we had um we did two services. So the first one was a graveside service three weeks later, and only 10 people allowed. And it was outdoors. Um, but my own brothers couldn't be there. We didn't have enough room. They had to be, they were there, but they were in their cars watching it on live streams. So that was difficult. And then we had to wait a few months to find a place that we could have a big celebration of life. My church couldn't do it because of all the regulations. And I ended up going to a retreat, a grief retreat, two months after he died. And they offered up their place. Like it was it's an outdoor camp. And anyways, I was able to have his um celebration of life with over 200 people um in August, like a few months after he died. But yeah, it was really difficult with all of the restrictions. And I have met so many widow friends who they were not able to be with their spouse when they died because they were in the hospital and it was COVID and they couldn't, and that just would be so heartbreaking.

Israel Caminero 16:10

I bet. You know, and you also said that the kids were there. We can look at that as as two ways bad or good. They got to spend those last days with them.

Michelle Bader Ebersole 16:23

Yeah.

Israel Caminero 16:23

Which was good. And I mean you didn't plan for that, but maybe that was an appointment that God made for you.

Michelle Bader Ebersole 16:30

Yeah, yeah, I think so. I think all having all that time together and um even just the way he died was not what we were expecting, but I think it was good for his situation. Because he was just he was really afraid of like being not being able to take care of himself. And at that point he was still fully functional, walking and everything. And that's why it was really confusing to me when he died. And I'm like talking to the doctor, I'm like, I don't know what happened. And she said, I we think they didn't do an autopsy, but I think it's a blood clot because he was complaining about his calf hurting really bad, and then all of a sudden he couldn't breathe. So they're pretty sure he had a blood clot. Even though we knew he was dying, it was a lot sooner than we thought, so that was kind of hard. But they just try to look at the positive, you know, that he didn't suffer.

Israel Caminero 17:14

Well, you said you had a good childhood, you know, and the experiences you had while you were young and being in the church. Do you think those shaped the way you approached these challenges? I mean, obviously.

Michelle Bader Ebersole 17:28

Yeah, you know, just the foundation, the solid foundation of, you know, having my own relationship with God and watching my parents and family and 100%. I mean, I've already had relied on him, you know. So the first bout of cancer when I was young, 24, that's when I believe my faith really deepened because I'd never had anything hard happen before then. And then the years in between this first cancer and second were very hard. He was sick all the time, he couldn't work. I was working and trying to take care of the kids and all of that. So I feel like, you know, all of that had helped me to rely on God for everything. So even though Luke was alive, he couldn't attend a lot of things, he was very sick. I I went to a lot of things kind of as a single parent because he couldn't come to things. And so I was already kind of prepared for that. But definitely the the faith like that I grew up with, and then as I was going through all these years with Luke, um shaped me to be able to um, you know, do do well after he passed away because I had that faith. And that's why I just I feel bad for people that don't know Jesus. Like, how do you get through these things, right? Like, so that's my goal. That's my mission. Like, you gotta know Jesus. Yes, we have tools. There's plenty of great grief programs. Like, I believe that there was a lot of great tools, but he's the healer. Like, if we don't have him, these tools don't help. That's right. Like, we need him, and so that's my mission with what I do with widows, too. Is like, I mean, like this retreat is 100% focused on Jesus and how he's gonna heal us. And I believe there's people coming who aren't saved. I'm like, I'm excited about this opportunity. I'm excited for what God is gonna do. And you know, I'm just really passionate about that because it would be so hard to go through this not knowing God, not knowing his comfort and peace, and just all the things that we know from going through loss with him.

Israel Caminero 19:16

That's right. God gives us that supernatural peace that you don't have when you don't know him and you're going through things like this. You see people stressing out, going to the bars and just throwing everything away pretty much and going down that downward spiral because God's not in their life and they don't know how to deal with it. You said you're having this retreat this weekend.

Michelle Bader Ebersole 19:39

Yeah.

Israel Caminero 19:40

And you did share a little bit about things that happened there, but can you share a little bit more about the ways you help others find hope and healing without giving too much away?

Michelle Bader Ebersole 19:52

Oh, yeah. I have so the podcast is a huge way that we help people. Uh, you know, it started with a um co-host. And he left about a year and a half ago. And then I decided to turn it into an interview show mostly. So I interview widows all over the world, which has been awesome. So that's one of the ways people tell me. Like I have literally had a couple people tell me they were thinking about ending their life until they found the podcast. And then they realized they weren't alone. Like that is worth it right there. Like that they're like, okay, I'm not the only one. This has happened with other people. So that's one of the ways that, you know, we I give hope and healing. And then, you know, through my book, which is also called Widow Goals, it's Widow Goals Steps to Finding Peace When You Lose Your Spouse. Um, it's basically 30 individual goals that people can read in any order, like get out of bed, call on your tribe, how to re-enter social spaces, um, have an eternal per uh perspective, and you know, giving people step by step. In addition, I this summer was able to also create a workbook and a leader's guide, and people all across the US and Canada are now doing groups with my book, which I love. And my goal is to get these in churches. Like I want it to be like brief share for widows. And so I even created a page where pastors can go and learn more about it. And so that's another way that I do that. And and then really, you know, with like this retreat, it's helping other widows to know they're not alone. They are not alone in this because I feel like as a younger widow, you can feel like no one in your world gets it because they might not know anyone who gets it. And so I think that's something that is really huge through what I do is being able to show these widows that you know they're not alone.

Israel Caminero 21:36

And it's only for widows, right? Now, widowers.

Michelle Bader Ebersole 21:41

Oh, it is uh so the retreats are only widows, but all my other stuff, my podcast, there's a lot of widowers that come on there and speak. My Facebook group is widowers, so um, my book is for widowers. The only thing that's just for women is like the retreat and then our local groups. But everything else, I guess I forget that people don't know that. Like when I say widows, I also mean widowers. Like on the podcast, we just always say widows when we mean widowers. Anyone who lost a spouse.

Israel Caminero 22:05

Okay. All right, just wanted to clear that up. I thought you meant only for women.

Michelle Bader Ebersole 22:10

So No, no, we have a lot of men, like and a lot of great widowers have come on and spoke and have great stories, and it affects them a lot too.

Israel Caminero 22:19

Okay. So for anyone listening who might feel stuck, overwhelmed, or uncertain, what message of encouragement would you have for them?

Michelle Bader Ebersole 22:27

So this is the biggest advice I give for those who are going through grief is to feel it. Don't stuff it down. So there's a couple things to know about grief. So let's say I had a flat tire, in which my car had a flat tire, and I was like, okay, um, I'll come back in a year and it'll be better. Well, if I don't do the work, it's gonna be the same. So pour into your healing and then let yourself feel it. What that means is if you're at the grocery store and you see a food that you used to buy for someone you love and it makes you cry, cry. You know, don't stuff those feelings down because what we feel God can heal. Like we've got to feel it. So whatever anyone in the audience is going through, let yourself feel it because God wants to heal it, but you've got to go through the feelings and the emotions. Because I've seen people five or ten years after their loss who are in the same place. It's because number one, they didn't do any work towards it, and number two, they didn't feel it. Like you can't stuff it down, like you can't just keep busy so that you don't feel the feeling. So that would be my encouragement.

Israel Caminero 23:25

That's good. You know, and I I might know the answer to this one, but I'm gonna ask anyways, because you said you said you have your podcast, your books, and your nonprofit, and they reach so many. But what continues to inspire you to keep serving in this capacity?

Michelle Bader Ebersole 23:43

God and like just knowing that it's Jesus. Like, I went through this, and so I'm gonna let him use me to help other people, and just going back to remembering what it felt like in those first days of loss, and it's just like the hardest thing ever, you know, and wanting all I wanted to know, I actually knew a few widows. Uh, most of them were older than me, but I knew a few. I called all of them and I was like, please tell me it gets better. And I said, Yes. Like all I needed is someone to reach out to me and tell me I wasn't gonna stay in this dark place forever. And that's what I try to do for people is show them they're not gonna stay there because it can feel like your life is over. Like, like anything you've ever looked forward to is gone. Like it's just so hard to be motivated. And so I like to show people that like if you're still here, God has a purpose for your life. Like you're here, so your life's not over. Like, because I've met widows who say, I just am waiting around to die so I can join him. I'm like, no, that's not what God has for you. Like John 1010 says that you know, Jesus came to give life and life abundantly, and so we don't want to stay stuck in this place of like, I'm just I'm just here, I'm just here till I die. Which we can feel like when our loved one dies, that we just want to go join them. We don't want to live life, but God's got a purpose, and so I like to encourage people, and that's why I keep doing what I'm doing, because I want more people to know that.

Israel Caminero 25:06

That's so true. What you said about when a loved one dies that you just sometimes want to join them and that's it.

Michelle Bader Ebersole 25:14

Yep.

Israel Caminero 25:14

And that's not the way it should be, you know, like you, for instance, and there you have your children and other family can't just think that way and leave them.

Michelle Bader Ebersole 25:26

Right.

Israel Caminero 25:27

Sounds right. That's absolutely true. So are there any small practices, habits, or truths that have helped sustain your faith and perspective besides God through these life challenges? God is number one.

Michelle Bader Ebersole 25:42

Right. I mean, community. That's huge. That's that is huge. That was so big for me, finding my community. And so I, you know, like I said, I started my own group and then widows started coming to me. People would send them to me, they would know. Like, I just started a Facebook page and let people know if you know widows, let me know. And I was able to grow this community and get to know them. And then, you know, as I met widows all over the world, really. Um, but community was one. Um, and it doesn't even have to be a widowed community. If you're like, I don't have any of that, I don't know where to find it. Like just plugging into church and getting to know people there, that is huge because Satan wants to isolate us because that's when we're gonna feel more lonely and more alone. Nobody gets it, you're all alone. Why are you even here? You know, all that stuff. But when we're in community, we have people around us to remind us no, like there's a purpose for your life. And so I would say, like, if someone's feeling like really down and out, like get in any kind of Christian community because that is gonna help you so much. Um, also, counseling, huge. I've been going counseling for like 16 years. I still see the same counselor, she knows my entire life. In fact, she did a house call when Luke died. She came to my house to counsel with me. She was very sweet, and like just having that extra support is so huge. Grief counseling is huge, you know, just really pouring into yourself. This is what I tell people when they're new in grief. Your job needs to be. You need to pour into healing like it's your job, like because it is. Because if you don't get your healing, you're not gonna be good at your actual job or being a parent or any of the things. And so, what that means pouring into yourself is getting the help, like getting the counseling, going to things like grief share, being around other people who get it, pouring into every grief book that you can find. Like, you know, I did all of those things because I was just so hungry to get healthy. And so that's why I did that, and I encourage people to do the same thing.

Israel Caminero 27:38

I'm gonna backtrack. So, did that happen to you as far as uh isolation and feeling alone when it all when your husband made it to glory?

Michelle Bader Ebersole 27:47

I didn't, yeah, I I had feelings of like I'm alone, like nobody gets it, but I had lots of community, but I just didn't know a lot of widows at that time. So I but I never had isolation, but I know a lot of them, a lot of widows who do. Okay, who just go into this, or anybody going through grief that doesn't, you know, plug into anything, they can go into um isolation, and it's it's very difficult um place to be. That's right, from what I see.

Israel Caminero 28:14

And there's an enemy out there that's that's what he wants. Yes, you know, he wants to isolate you and take you away from everything.

Michelle Bader Ebersole 28:23

Yep.

Israel Caminero 28:24

So you mentioned your podcast, you mentioned your group. Can you mention that again? I'm gonna have links to all of this on the description of this podcast. So if anyone wants to look you up and show you some love, or even if anyone that might be listening right now that's going through grief that might want to join or listen to your podcast, I will have links to that on the description.

Michelle Bader Ebersole 28:48

Great. Yeah, so the podcast is called Widowed Too Soon with the number two, and that's on all podcast platforms. The place where it's really the hub of everything I do is widowgoals.org. It will have um links to my book, but you can also look for widow goals on Amazon. It'll take you straight there. But that has like the location. Actually, I forgot to say this. So it's not just here. I have groups in about 30 cities, like other leaders who said, I want to start a group, so I just taught them what I know. And at the retreat, I'm gonna be asking for more leaders. And so you can go to this where it says Widowgulls groups, and you can look for your city or something close to you. Um, we'll also have the program, the Whitagles support program, if you want to take that to your church. Um, and also links to the podcast. So it has all of the things we've been talking about.

Israel Caminero 29:30

Okay. And like I mentioned earlier, I will have links to all that on the description of this episode so everyone can go and show you some love. I always try to support the guests and you know, have my audience go and support them. Do they do it? I don't know, but I always I always try to bring it up so at least you know they know about it.

Michelle Bader Ebersole 29:54

Yep.

Israel Caminero 29:55

So, Michelle, do you have a life verse or a scripture that inspired your journey and guides the work you do as far as if you're having a bad day or not even just a life verse that you grew up with that you can always read and go back to? And what is that life verse? You might have many, but you know, your favorite one and what it means to you.

Michelle Bader Ebersole 30:18

Two, and I'm horrible with like references, but the one about okay, so my mom shared this to me with me. So if we're looking for like whole life, it would probably be this one. When I was young, and I thought like I knew what brokenhearted was because some boy broke up with me when I was a teenager and I was all devastated, and that was the hardest thing I'd ever been through. And it was about, I think it's Psalms or Proverbs, something you'll know what I'm talking about. Um, God is close to the brokenhearted hearted and saves those who are crushed in spirits. I think it's Psalm 63. I don't know. But that one was huge to me then, and then huge to me when Luke was going through his cancer. But as far as like right now, he has turned my morning into dancing. Uh, what's the word? Replaced my uh morning clothes with clothes of joy. I think that's Psalm something. I should know that that's the verse for the retreat, but I don't have it in front of me. But that's our theme verse. I I believe it's um Psalm 60, I don't know, something like that. But that one has been huge too, because I've definitely seen him turn my morning into dancing and also creating beauty from ashes. Like all of those are I should probably memorize those more, but I those three truths from the Bible are like things that I've seen. They're all kind of around the same theme that he's healed me. And that is super important to me. Like that I've seen it happen for me, so I know it will it can happen for others.

Israel Caminero 31:42

All right, so the first one you said is Psalms 3418.

Michelle Bader Ebersole 31:46

Thank you.

Israel Caminero 31:47

And the second, no, no, no. I looked them up myself, and the second one you said was Psalms 3011.

Michelle Bader Ebersole 31:54

That's it. Psalms 3011, yes. Yes, and I know that it's in my notes for the retreat. I just forgot the exact reference right now because I'm actually doing my talk about morning to dancing.

Israel Caminero 32:06

No worries at all. We're human. Yeah. I I got you with the element of surprise. Thank you.

Michelle Bader Ebersole 32:11

Yeah.

Israel Caminero 32:13

Now we're going to my back to the past section of the podcast.

Michelle Bader Ebersole 32:16

Okay.

Israel Caminero 32:17

What my back to the past section is if you could speak to your younger self at a challenging time, what encouragement would you offer?

Michelle Bader Ebersole 32:28

It's gonna get better. Like it's gonna get better in this dark place, it is not going to you're not gonna feel like this forever. And God is gonna make something beautiful out of this. Just hold on. And you do have the strength through him to get through it. Because I remember, I have a very, very specific memory. Luke was about to die. I was driving in the car, it was the only place I could be alone, especially with COVID, and just crying and screaming, and like I kept saying, God, you've got the wrong person. I can't do this, I can't do this, I can't walk through my kids through death. I cannot do this. And I would say to her, Yes, you can. Like, God is gonna sustain you and He's gonna help you get through this, and He's gonna be your strength, and you can do it. Like you can do so much more than you think you can, like through Christ. Amen. And that give that encourage that you're gonna make it through, you know, and life's gonna be good again.

Israel Caminero 33:18

That's right.

Michelle Bader Ebersole 33:19

It's gonna be really good again.

Israel Caminero 33:21

That's right. We just have to look at it through his eyes and not our own. So, Michelle, I just want to say thank you for taking the time out of your obviously busy schedule to be here and share your story with my audience. I'm so happy that you did. Is there anything else that you might want to share before we close?

Michelle Bader Ebersole 33:43

So it would just be that um, you know, if you're someone going through grief, like let yourself feel it. Don't stuff it down. And if you know someone going through grief, please reach out to them. Like you're never bugging them. Even if there was a text or a call I couldn't respond to, I appreciated that somebody reached out. And especially on the anniversary of when their person died, that day is really hard because most people don't remember it. Reach out, like find out what it is, put it in your calendar and reach out to them every year. I have friends that do that, and it means the world to me.

Israel Caminero 34:15

Amen. It does. It definitely does.

Michelle Bader Ebersole 34:18

Yep.

Israel Caminero 34:19

So once again, I can't get enough of thanking people that are on the podcast. I'm going to thank you again, but would you lead us in closing prayer for anyone that's listening who's navigating their own seasons of challenge and change? Yeah. That they would be encouraged, strengthened, and reminded of God's love.

Michelle Bader Ebersole 34:38

Yes. Dear God, I just thank you for this opportunity to be here with Israel and share my story. Thank you for what you have done in my life. And I pray for every single listener today who's all going they're going through their own stuff, whether it's grief or loss or change, change in their life, God, that you would come and give them the peace that passes all understanding. And I just pray for joy in their life today, that something happens that just brings them joy and peace and a reminder that you are there and you work out even the little small details and all the little things, God. And I just pray that you would encourage them today, whether um they know someone going through groups that they need to reach out to or they're going to get themselves, they will find peace and comfort. Thank you for the gift of technology that we can talk to people all over the world. And I just pray that this gifts to all the right listeners, and thank you for the opportunity.

Israel Caminero 35:27

Thank you so much for that prayer. And again, thanks for being here and sharing a piece of your heart with us today. You're welcome anytime. And friends, we'll leave it here. But be sure to check out Michelle's podcast, her books, and her work helping others find peace and purpose. Remember, no matter what season you're at, God can bring hope, healing, and a story of glory out of your journey. This is Israel Camanero, and this is living testimony to where your story meets his glory.