02: A Gather of Gatherings: A Kettle of Hawks – Feathers and Figures of Speech

What do hawks have to do with language, myth, and medieval manuscripts?

In this debut episode of A Gather of Gatherings, we take flight with a fun collective noun—a kettle of hawks—and explore the stories it stirs up.

Join host Kellie Raines as she metaphorically skydives into the world of hawks (and the archives), blending rich storytelling, language, history, and real-life falconry with imagination and curiosity.

🦅 You’ll hear from Kate Marden, master falconer and founder of West Coast Falconry, who shares her journey from childhood wonder to working with real-life raptors.

 📖 You'll also meet Dame Juliana Berners (sort of…), a 15th-century nun, in a fictional time-traveling interview about birds, books, and who gets to write history.

 🎧 And yes—there will be soundscapes, bird trivia, falconry terms, and one or two winged metaphors that might surprise you.

This isn’t just a podcast about grammar—it’s a journey through language, nature, culture, and imagination, all launched from the odd and wondrous world of collective nouns.

Show Notes
Host, Producer, Editor, Writer: Kellie Raines

Interviewees
Kate Marden, Founder and Owner of West Coast Falconry
Dame Julianna Berners, portrayed by Kelley Ogden (fictional interview)
Shawn B O'Neal

If I Were a Hawk Writers/Voices (in order of appearance)
Each person below wrote and voiced their own “If I Were a Hawk…” content
Jessica Laskey, Leah Daugherty, Filipe da Cruz (French), Elizabeth Sosner, Emma Young da Cruz (German), Olivia Raines, Shawn B O'Neal, Ruby Sketchley

Special Thanks
David, Shawn, Colleen, Rose, Agnes, Olivia, Alice, Shannon, and the Witches

Music
Music courtesy of Melodie Music.
Melodie Music Subscription: Pro Plan, Lifetime

Title: Acoustic Minor Swing Artist: Bill Palmer; Composers: Palmer William John
https://melod.ie/track-details/1647-acoustic-minor-swing 

Title: The Battle Of The Boyne Artist: Vincent Russo Composers: Russo John
https://melod.ie/track-details/2296-the-battle-of-the-boyne 

Title: Dappled Light Artist: Karl Steven Composers: Steven Karl Solve   https://melod.ie/track-details/1588-dappled-light 

Title: Distant Galaxies Artist: Patrick Rydman Composers: Rydman Patrick Finn 
https://melod.ie/track-details/4817-distant-galaxies 

Title: Trials And Tribulations Artist: Sam Lipman Composers: Lipman Samuel Mark
https://melod.ie/track-details/903-trials-and-tribulations 

Sound Effects
LibriVox (free public domain audiobooks)
SoundSnap (pro subscription)

Excerpt from Il pleure dans mon cœur by Paul Verlaine (1874)
From Romances sans paroles (1874)
Public domain. Courtesy of LibraVox performed by Alexandre Ivan Kard
LibriVox 

Chapters

• 5:33 Kate Marden - West Coast Falconry
• 23:06 Types of Hawks
• 31:33 Group Names for Hawks
• 32:57 Mating Dance of Hawks
• 35:43 Inspiration for the Podcast and Dame Juliana Berners
• 46:06 Falconry Lesson Debrief

Transcript

A Gather of Gatherings: A Kettle of Hawks – Ep 02

[music]

[00:00:00] Kellie: Have you heard of a murder of crows? A prickle of porcupines. What about a float of crocodiles? A quiver of cobras? 

[cobras hissing]

Welcome to A Gather of Gatherings, the space where we dive into the delightful world of collective nouns. And swim and fly and leap and dance, and insert your favorite verb. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey – watch it, with these fun phrases. I'm your guide, Kellie Raines, ready to wander with you through the quirky backstreets and neon-lit poetry of collective nouns. Whether you're a word nerd like me, a history buff, an animal lover, or just curious about collective nouns, you're in the right place. You're in the place to gather some gatherings.

[a tiger growls]

[00:00:56] Kellie: An ambush of tigers. A charm of hummingbirds, bless their little flappin' wings, an exaltation of larks, a kettle of hawks. An unkindness of ravens. 

[a raven croaks]

A murmuration of starlings. A bloom of jellyfish. Quite right, I dare say quite right. Bloom. A school of fish. Okay, what are those fish learning in school anyway?

[00:01:31] Kellie: Guppy geometry. Can you just imagine? Blowfish studying the consequences of the axioms of congruence. 

[00:01:39] Geometry Speaker: B C and B Prime, C Prime dot dot dot. K L and K Prime, L Prime are respectively congruent. 

[00:01:47] Kellie: That just makes me so happy. I don't know why it just does. Oh, try this one. A flamboyance of flamingos, that sounds about right.

[00:01:58] Kellie: Each episode will feature a different group name, like a shush of librarians, how dare! Or a shiver of sharks and lots of interesting facts about its subject and its collective noun meaning. We'll also enjoy other creative gems and surprises along the way. And our first episode, is about a kettle of hawks.

[hawk screeches]

[00:02:23] Hawk - Jessica: If I were a hawk, I would fly as high as my wings could possibly take me to get a true bird's eye view of the world. 

[00:02:31] Kellie: As we explore a kettle of hawks and soar through hawk-related content, we're also going to meet Kate Marden, the founder and owner of West Coast Falconry in Marysville, California. 

[00:02:43] Kate: Biggest moment is when I trapped my first red tail, and then I've got this baby dragon on my glove and I was just, oh my God, this is so cool. 

[00:02:52] Kellie: So, my inspiration for this podcast came from a couple of places. I saw an episode of “Nature” on PBS KVIE called “A Murder of Crows.” Now I knew a few collective nouns, like a murder of crows, but this time, for some reason, the wonder of the poetry of these group names and origins lured me like a lark, and I went down and through a slither of wormholes for collective nouns.

[00:03:16] Kellie: What? Oh, oh, I am so sorry. What would you choose instead of a slither? Hmm? A waterfall of wormholes? A goo of wormholes? Is that it? Let me know. I'm curious. So, I fell down a slither of wormholes and through the pages of time and history, which led me to Dame Juliana Berners, who was credited with writing one of the first printed lists of collective nouns in the 15th century. 

 Collective nouns. And a nun? Folks, we have ourselves a podcast. 

[00:03:52] Dame Juliana Berners: In my time, many falconry birds were called hawks, and certain hawks were meant for certain levels of people. I'm bewildered and delighted that this has changed for you now. Also, from what I've learned, it follows suit that you have more classifications for falconry birds, as you have many different kinds of salad sauce. As I have known hawks of my time, kings reigned over tiercels. A handsome creature, as you know, full well. The first time I was gallivanting out in a field and the tiercel came right over to me and I knew I must make me a king. 

[00:04:38] Hawk - Leah: If I were a hawk, I would freak out because birds freak me out. 

[wings flap]

[00:04:47] Kellie: If you had told me that someday I would have a hawk landing on my arm and perched on me close enough to eat my face, I would've said, “Get out of my nightmares.”

[00:04:58] Kellie: But as my little podcast idea grew bigger, I serendipitously research-stumbled upon Kate Marden and West Coast Falconry. She and her hawks, especially Diego and Avalon, changed my life and turned what used to be a personal terror into a dream worthy of a Khaleesi. Let's chat with the master falconer who transformed me from birds will make nests in my hair and entangle me in avian angst to every time I see a bird in the sky, I say, “Dracarys!” And mean it. 

[00:05:33] Kellie: You're a master falconer. 

[00:05:34] Kate: I'm a master 

[00:05:36] Kellie: For the record. She did this really great pose. So, okay. First and foremost, what is a master falconer? How long does it take to become one? What goes into that? 

[00:05:45] Kate: Well, here in, um, the United States, I almost the North America, but it's, uh, falconry is the most regulated field sport in the United States.

[00:05:53] Kate: So, in order to become a licensed falconer, you have to take a test with California Fish and Game, you have to have a hunter safety… You pass your hunter safety course, you have to have your equipment and your housing all checked off and inspected by, um, a game warden and it's super expensive. And you have to find somebody that will be your mentor, your sponsor, and they have to have at least five years of experience.

[00:06:17] Kate: So, your first two years, you're an apprentice. And you have somebody that, and it's kind of hard to find a sponsor because there's a big, uh, fall off rate. Less than 20% of the people that start falconry ever go past their first two years. 

[00:06:30] Kellie: Wow. That's high attrition. 

[00:06:31] Kate: Yeah. 

[00:06:31] Kate: Well, it's devastating. You know, you're working with a wild animal, something happens, it gets sick, it dies.

[00:06:35] Kate: I mean, it's hard. It says, “Thanks for the quail,” and flies away. So, it's a little, it can be very daunting for people. Your sponsor's also legally responsible for how you care for that bird. So, sponsors can be a little bit hard to find because why should they put in the effort if you're not going to, at any rate, once you get all those things in a row, then you're issued your falconry permit.

[00:06:55] Kate: Now you have your falconry permit. You have to get a hunting license because, and now you have to have it just to even go trap your bird because technically you're hunting the bird. With any luck at all, you go out with your sponsor to get your bird. In California, we're allowed to have either a Red-tail Hawk or an American Kestrel as our apprentice birds. 

[00:07:11] Kellie: Red-tailed Hawks are hawks. It's in the name. And American Kestrels, they're falcons. Both are protected under the Migratory Bird Treaty Act of 1918. Speaking of which, I fell down a rabbit hole of info – fitting since these birds might actually eat rabbits. Turns out, the Migratory Bird Treaty Act exists partly thanks to Boston socialite, Harriet Hemenway, who was horrified by the 1800s fashion trend of wearing hats adorned with wait for it, yeah, you might have guessed it. Entire egrets perched on their heads. I mean, what, what, what, what, what? What was going on? Determined to stop the feathery carnage, she rallied society women to boycott the trend leading to the creation of the Massachusetts Audubon Society. Their efforts amongst many others helped make it illegal to harm or collect feathers from protected birds.

[00:08:04] Kate: You can buy them, but because there are people that breed them, but you cannot release a captive bred bird. And we encourage people to trap their wild birds because you have an opportunity to do something that's in Europe. You can't take birds outta the wild. It's like catching a baby dragon. It's pretty freaking cool. And, uh, the reason that we're allowed to take these birds from the wild is because we have zero negative impact on wild bird populations. 'Cause a kestrel isn't really something that's gonna put food on the table. You know, there are, you know, they're doing, they're doing pretty well.

[00:08:35] Kate: They're actually struggling a little bit because of Roundup. 

[00:08:38] Kellie: All the poisons, pest control of what people think are pests... 

[00:08:41] Kate: Because Roundup people go, well, Roundup kills the plant. Yes, it poisons the plants. And what eats the plant? The bugs. And what eats the bugs? 

[00:08:47] Kellie: Here it is. When people use poison on rodents, they risk poisoning birds of prey like hawks, eagles, and owls because raptors prey on those small critters.

[00:08:56] Kellie: So, when someone uses Anticoagulant Rodenticides (ARs), that person is also putting our baby dragons in danger. No good. Save the baby dragons. And said poisons are coming into our homes to metaphorically roost. And that sounds like a lot of doom to me. But hey, not all things that seem daunting spell doom. Like what, Kellie?

[00:09:19] Kellie: Well, let me tell you, like becoming a falconer. Sure. Yeah. It takes years of dedication, paperwork, and patience, but it's a thrilling journey that opens up a whole new world. One wingspan at a time. 

[00:09:33] Kate: So, your first two years, you're an apprentice, and if your sponsor signs off all your paperwork, then you become what's known as a general falconer.

[00:09:41] Kate: And now you can have any bird that's legal for falconry, that's legal to take outta the wild. And except for Golden Eagles and Bald Eagles, but Bald Eagles aren't falconry birds anyway. And you can purchase any captive bred bird that's legal for falconry. And after seven years cumulative, two as a apprentice and five as a general, then you are what is known as a master falconer. But here in the States, there's no proficiencies. I've heard of some countries where you have to work with. Like a hawket, a falcon, an Accipiter before they'll pass you up to the next level. 

[00:10:14] Kellie: How long have you been a master falconer?

[00:10:16] Kate: Uh, well, I became a licensed falconer in 1998, so then eight plus seven, so that would be 2005. So, since 2005, 2006. 

[00:10:27] Kellie: So, what led you to birds of prey? Like, was there an aha moment? Was there this like kismet, serendipitous kind of thing that happened? 

[00:10:34] Kate: I was nine years old. And I'm ancient. So, I grew up in West Marin and we had a falconer come to our school, and his name was Bill McBride.

[00:10:43] Kate: So, this is the random thing, the stuff that you remember as a little kid. Can't remember where I put my keys, but I know what I, that guy that I met. And so, Mr. McBride came to our school. And we're out in West Marin and he had a Great Horned Owl that was his first falconry bird. He had a Red-tail Hawk that he flew in the multi-purpose room.

[00:11:01] Kate: I was very jealous. 'cause Jay McInally got to have the bird fly to his glove. 

[00:11:04] Kellie: Oh, Jay. 

[00:11:05] Kate: And then he had a Bald Eagle that John Kennedy had given him. 

[00:11:08] Kellie: Are you serious? 

[00:11:09] Kate: Serious. So, for my generation, that's like, God gave you a Bald Eagle. Right? Yeah. It's like, wow. Um, because at that time, which was, I don't know, was it early ’70s or late ’60s?

[00:11:19] Kate: I was nine. So, it was late ’60s at that time. The only way you could have a bald eagle was by a presidential gift. So… so, he'd had the bird since ’63 or something like that. 

[00:11:29] Kellie: Talk about a high-flying gift. Hello. Getting a Bald Eagle from a president? That's not your everyday backyard bird feeder visitor. I mean, unless you've got some very influential friends. These birds have soared as symbols of power and freedom, but with that prestige comes well, a flock full of legal red tape. I could have thrown in another F word there. Maybe the director's cut anyways. Since 1940, the Bald and Golden Eagle Protection Act has made it illegal to take, possess, sell, or transport Bald Eagles without a permit from the Secretary of the Interior.

[00:12:05] Kellie: However, this created challenges for Native American tribes who regard eagles as sacred and essential to their cultural and religious practices. To alleviate the burden of Native Americans having to navigate a bureaucratic morass, and we know that it is, the US Fish and Wildlife Service established the National Eagle Repository in the early 1970s.

[00:12:28] Kellie: Its website says its main purpose is to receive, evaluate, store, and distribute dead Golden and Bald Eagles, parts, and feathers to Native Americans and Alaska Natives who are enrolled members of federally recognized tribes throughout the United States. And speaking of things that once required special permission?

[00:12:47] Kellie: Mm-hmm. Imagine being a little girl in the 1960s when curiosity wasn't exactly encouraged and questions had to be kept under wing. 

[00:12:59] Kate: But also, you know, I'm a little girl in the ’60s, so children are to be seen, not heard well, that's, you know, my grandparents were very Edwardian, so children are to be seen, not heard.

[00:13:09] Kate: You don't speak until spoken to. You sit politely. Hands in your lap and little girls don't ask questions. So, it never occurred to me to ask him how to become a falconer because I'm not supposed to talk to 'em. And, but my dad was pretty supportive, and he got me some books. I still have them. And then I just got into, totally into birds.

[00:13:25] Kate: We'd always had canaries when I was growing up. A little bit of a bird nerd. But then I ended up with every kind of cockatoo, cockatiel, lorikeet, parakeet, macaw, conure, you know, just whatever. I ended up with all these different pet birds. And the local fire department used to call me Dr. Dolittle 'cause I had all these random animals everywhere.

[00:13:43] Kellie: Dr. Dolittle is a fictional character from a series of children's books by Hugh Lofting. Dr. Dolittle is his name, but he does a lot. He can talk to animals in their language. He speaks hawk and eagle and aardvark. That is cool. And the animals love him. The character first appeared in letters from the author to his children, from the battlefields of World War I.

[00:14:09] Kellie: Wow. In the middle of a war, this father did so much for his children and people who love animals. Dr. Dolittle possesses compassion and empathy and imagination and a love for nature and people. Is there someone in your life who creates beauty and wonder amidst chaos? Are you that someone? Could you be that someone? You know we need more of that.

[00:14:40] Kate: And then in ’96, I think it was, I used to volunteer at the Ren Faire out in uh, Novato. Yeah. Our home away from home. And in ’96 they started a falconry show, and I was volunteering for the falconry show and then apropos of nothing... I was at a booth and this gentleman and his wife struck up a conversation with me and we're talking about, I dunno… The jewelry I was wearing or something. And then it goes to, “Why are you here at Faire?” “Oh, we're guests.” “What do you do?” “Oh, oh, I'm a volunteer and you know, I'm with friends at Faire, and right now I'm volunteering for the falconry show,” and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And this gentleman says, “Well, my name's Earl Waltman. Here's my card. If you ever wanna become a real falconer, I'll help you do it.” 

[00:15:16] Kellie: No way. 

[00:15:17] Kate: Yeah. And Earl lived up here in Gridley. I lived in Lagunitas. I gave his card to a friend of mine who was at Faire, and he was her sponsor. And then, I was just too far away, but I ended up, she ended up being my sponsor 'cause the laws were a little different then. And so, actually most of my sponsorship was done by telephone talking to Earl. So, that's how I got into it. And I started the business… my, I met my ex, I think in 2005. Yeah, something like that. And we started doing abatement. And then he wanted to teach apprentice classes.

[00:15:47] Kate: And we, I moved up here in 2006 after my mom died. We did abatement. We did some app, just like three-day apprentice classes and then we split up. Um, we got an article in, um, Southwest Magazine. 

[00:15:59] Kellie: Nice. 

[00:16:00] Kate: And that just, that was wonderful. That helped a lot. 

[00:16:03] Kellie: What was the first bird that landed on your arm? 

[00:16:06] Kate: Oh yeah, it was probably Maggie that the bird at the Renaissance Faire.

[00:16:10] Kellie: Wow. 

[00:16:10] Kate: You know she was uh uh Harris' Hawk. Yeah, it was probably Maggie. The first bird I ever held on my arm was probably Socrates. He was an old Eagle Owl. But that's one of the reasons why I do it, is why I continued to do it. The, the one, the biggest moment is when I trapped my first Red-tail. And then I've got this baby dragon on my glove and it's just, oh my God, this is so cool.

[00:16:32] Kate: Because they do, their eyes flare and their tongue comes out and their mouth comes open and they flare up their thing and they just, where they're just like, ow, trying to look bigger and more aggressive than they there, and it's amazing. And then you get to train your dragon. A cool experience. And I, I, you know, if you talk to people and you ask 'em what their favorite animal is, I would bet 98% would say it's a predator.

[00:16:55] Kate: Some kind of predator. Oh, I love orcas, I love lions, I love dragons. But you know, wolves are a big one. Birds of prey, eagles, I love an eagle. And I think that that reason is 'cause we are predators, right? Our eyes are in the front of our head, so we relate and, and it's just kind of this, this thing. I just did a Renaissance Faire with a friend in Shasta this weekend.

[00:17:16] Kate: I only did one day. Um, and we do a couple of presentations, but also you can come to our environmental area and pay 10 bucks and you can hold one of our birds and your friend can come and take pictures of you. Right. And this, this gal, she had didn't even have a bird on the game. She's just walking past to go to the ax throwing, and she stops and just her eyes hit huge and her mouth just goes open with one of those.

[00:17:39] Kate: “Wow!” And she was just frozen with that look of ecstatic, oh my gosh, joy and I jabbed my friend Julia. I said, “That's why I do this. That is why I do this.” To be able to give something that's like I was talking about it so regulated. It is so many flaming hoops that if I can legally let other people have that experience without having to, you know, sell their tennis shoes to do it, it makes me happy. 

[00:18:02] Kellie: So, Shawn and I just took your basic falconry lesson this morning, and I've always been afraid of birds. And that moment though, when Diego landed on my hand, I felt a little bit bigger than life too, because. He's such a powerful little baby dragon and it was the most wonderful experience I've ever had, so I have to thank you for that.

[00:18:20] Kate: Sure. Why, what? What makes you I, did you have a bad experience a goose bit you or something…? 

[00:18:24] Kellie: A parakeet and it would love to get into my hair… 

[00:18:27] Kate: uhhuh. 

[00:18:27] Kellie: And I just felt like I couldn't control the situation and it could do what it wanted, but I couldn't, 'cause I didn't wanna hurt it. So, ever since that I'm like, oh, they're gonna eat my face and they're gonna take all my hair.

[00:18:39] Kate: You are gonna steal my hair and build a nest. 

[00:18:40] Kellie: So, but you made the experience feel so safe. Like, 'cause you educated us, and you told us thank you. And I mean, Shawn can attest to this. It was, it was magic 

[00:18:50] Kate: Good. 

[00:18:51] Kellie: Outside of the experience we had, what kind of overall experience in any of your classes could anybody... 

[00:18:56] Kate: Well, all of the classes are interactive. I don't think I, you know, I do corporate stuff. I do anything that I can to make a living doing what I love is pretty much what I do. I have birds that Diego delivers wedding rings. I have other birds that deliver wedding rings. So, like you could have white pigeons fly at your wedding, Dude, or you could have a falcon come down and... 

[00:19:15] Kellie: He and his partner just got engaged.

[00:19:17] Kate: Did you? Well, we actually did a wedding where, one bird flew to the groom and one bird flew to the bride because she wanted 'em both. And that was quite a thing because I think we had, the falcon flew to the bride first, and then the falconer comes. So, what happens is they have the rings. The rings, quote unquote, and the bird flies down and uh, the receiver takes them and hands the bird to the falconer.

[00:19:38] Kate: The falconer unties the rings and hands them to whoever passes them off to whoever. Right? I don't use real rings, I just don't. And then that's how you do it. Well, we had to do that with one bird and take that bird away so the other bird wouldn't see it because they will try and kill each other. So, we flew the falcon to the bride first and then flew to the hawk to the groom first.

[00:19:57] Kate: But usually it's just one… We just fly one bird and then we go afterwards… We go to the cocktail area, the cocktail hour, and we hang out during the cocktail hour so guests can take pictures. They don't get to hold the birds, but we can do these things where it looks like they're holding the birds where you hide behind them and put the bird like, like that.

[00:20:14] Kate: But the wedding party, married couple, gets to hold birds for pictures. 

[00:20:18] Kellie: So, how many birds do you have here? 

[00:20:20] Kate: Uh, one, two I have, yeah. I just have four hawks. Just four hawks, five falcons. I thought I had five hawks, but. One. Oh no. Yeah, that's right. I placed one. So, I have five falcons, four hawks, two, four, six owls and an eagle.

[00:20:36] Kate: So, what is that? That's 10, 16 birds. I keep trying to thin the herd and then somebody goes, “Hey, do you want this?” Like, okay, yeah. 

[00:20:42] Kellie: You've got four hawks. 

[00:20:43] Kate: Mm-hmm. 

[00:20:44] Kellie: What are their names? 

[00:20:45] Kate: Well, you met Don Diego. 

[00:20:46] Kellie: I met Don Die- Could you say his full name first please? 

[00:20:48] Kate: His name is Don Diego Alejandro Santiago Saragosa Inigo Montoya Del Gado, ba dum bum um… Honestly, just, and he, he wears it well, a lot of times he'll, he'll look at the at you'll go to do a picture and he'll go and he'll turn his head to the side like this is my good side.

[00:21:02] Kate: And he is much more concerned about getting his hair perfectly. He's kind of like Antonio Banderas, right? Trying to get his hair perfectly. Then he has to go hunting or anything. So, and then I have his sister, Mariposa, and she's named Mariposa because she has a tendency to land on things that will not support her weight.

[00:21:18] Kate: And, uh, she's my hunting partner. And then, uh, also from the same breeding pair, different ages, but same breeding pair is Avalon, and she's another bird that I got when I was working on Catalina Island. So, she's named… She had no name when I got her. The guy goes, “I don't name my birds.” It's like, uh, my car is named Ruby Red and I have pots that my grandmother gave me that she named Mrs. To... Actually, it might've been her mother that named her Mrs. Tozier and Steve. I mean, things have names, right? 

[00:21:45] Kellie: Things have names. 

[00:21:46] Kate: How can you not name your animal? 

[00:21:48] Kellie: That's it. Now I need to name my pots and pans, too. I mean, I am so down for the name game. I'm curious, what inanimate objects do you name? Here's a little secret.

[00:22:01] Kellie: While they may not be inanimate objects, I've named my kidneys, Elroy and Leroy. 

[00:22:07] Kate: And it's also interesting to me because they have very good vocal recognition and they… I mean, I, he was doing something, remember? And I started to do his whole name and he goes, oh, all right. It's kinda like, I always call it your serial killer name when you're in trouble and your mom says your whole name and you're like, okay.

[00:22:22] Kate: And then so Don Diego, Mariposa, Avalon, and Cora. And Cora is the Red-tail, and she was uh... a falconer's bird. She's a really great hunting bird. She's taken from the wild. She got avian pox, and it got into her eye. It's related to the herpes virus, so it's forever. It'll, it'll kill a bird. But she, they, we got her through it, but she lost sight in one eye.

[00:22:46] Kate: So, technically she could be released 'cause there's plenty of one-eyed birds in the wild. 

[00:22:50] Kellie: Do your hawks get along with each other? 

[00:22:52] Kate: Only the Harris's Hawks. 

[00:22:53] Kellie: And didn't you mention the falcons and the hawks would like get at each other? 

[00:22:57] Kate: All the birds will kill each other. Yeah. And, and you're, it's illegal actually for you to house birds together unless they're a breeding pair.

[00:23:04] Kellie: I personally think hawks are the cool kids of the Raptor world. Sharing a family tree with around a 200 species, including their bigger broodier cousins like eagles, the bullies, vultures, and kites. And can we talk about how some of them have really incredible names? We've got Cooper's Hawk, Harris's Hawk, Grayhawk, and the mysteriously named Shikra.

[00:23:29] Kellie: Then there's the Sharp Shinned Hawk, which sounds both elegant and mildly threatening. The Pale Chanting Goshawk and Dark Chanting Goshawk. Clearly dramatic opposites in a Shakespearean bird play. And Doria's Goshawk, which sounds very, very regal. Oh, and the Rough-legged Hawk. I feel that one so very deeply in my knees.

[00:24:00] Kellie: And of course, the Red-tailed Hawk the most common in North America, soaring dramatically into our field of vision and hearts. But wait. I saved a gem for last, “Ladyhawke.” You knew that was coming. I mean, come on. A medieval fantasy film featuring Michelle Pfeiffer, Rutger Hauer, and a tragic hawk transformation? Mwah! Chef's kiss! Perfection. 

[00:24:26] Kellie: What is it like being a woman falconer?? 

[00:24:28] Kate Marden: It's getting better. 

[00:24:29] Kellie: It's getting better? 

[00:24:30] Kate: It's getting better. I think my, my theory is that in North America it's male dominant because it didn't arrive in the United States until World War I and World War II. Right. There was, I was reading, there was some guy that came over like in the 1600s or something, and he brought his birds. But it's a hostile environment. The people that live here and have lived here for 10,000 years don't really want us here. 

[00:24:50] Kellie: Mm-hmm. 

[00:24:51] Kate: And now they're stuck with us. And so, you don't have the leisure to go out hunting, and plus, if you go out hunting with your bird, somebody that actually lives out in the forest might take you out.

[00:24:58] Kate: So, he released his birds, I think. And it wasn't until World War I, World War II when our soldiers were fighting in North Africa and in Europe, and they saw this art practice there and they brought it back. So, if you think about other things that come from wartime, uh, motorcycle racing, uh, small plane flying. Falconry. They are male dominant, but the only reason is 'cause they came out of war activity. You don't need upper body strength to fly a plane or a motorcycle or a bird. I guarantee this gentleman right here will not be able to hold my eagle. I just guarantee it. 'cause you don't have it any practice yet.

[00:25:31] Kate: I can hold the eagle 'cause I've been holding my Eagle Owl for 20 years, right? So, it's just muscle development. Upper-body strength doesn't mean anything. It's like bowling, right? If you can't cut the ball, you get a smaller ball. Upper body strength's got nothing to do with it. Motorcycles... just get a smaller bike.

[00:25:47] Kate: You still have the same proficiency. So… That's why it's very male dominant and you, you run into the attitude, all the time. Um, but you do need patience. So, a lot of women actually make much better falconers than men. And if you have children, then you really have to learn patience. So, um, at any rate, when I started, there were very few women in California Hawking Club, and now we've got, you know, we've got more and more women falconers and a lot of, you know, most of my friends love it, right? ’Cause I don't hang out with, I don't hang out with a, with a misogynistic falconers just don't have time for it. You know? I don't need it. But, um, I think it brings, you know, any, it's balance, right? You know, anything that's totally female dominant constantly all the time–

[00:26:30] Kate: We need balance. And I kind of get, you know, we're dealing with thousands of years of belonging to another person. I mean, women have been somebody's chattel. Your dad gave you away to your husband. So, now you went from belonging to your father to belonging to somebody else. So, I can kind of understand why women can, can get a little standoffish and not wanna deal with it.

[00:26:50] Kate: But I find if we can find a place where we can all play together, and I really like the fact that there's so many genders now. It's just like, give it up. 

[00:26:58] Kellie: Yeah. 

[00:26:58] Kate: I mean, there's not so many genders now. They've been like that for a long, long time. 

[00:27:02] Kellie: Acknowledging... 

[00:27:03] Kate: We're just finally going. Yeah, you're right.

[00:27:05] Kate: They told us 200 years ago that there were a lot of genders. No. Okay. You know, it's okay. And I just love that that allows, you know, just allows us to be us. So, I've, I'm enjoying it more with women. It's a lot of fun, you know, and we also call some of the really misogynist dudes on their shit, you know… 

[00:27:23] Kellie: You're speaking about community and everybody being involved. What can all of us do to protect, one, birds of prey and the art of falconry? Like even if we not participated in it daily, what could we do in our daily lives or whatever, just to protect birds of prey? 

[00:27:38] Kate: Well, the best way to protect birds of prey is to advocate, um, advocate habitat recovery. California has developed 97% of its riparian habitat, so that's small waterways with creeks and stuff, and all of our wildlife live is, is supported by riparian habitat. We're cutting down our trees, we're putting up Jamba Juices everywhere. The hardest part is, 'cause it's all about money, right? To stop the development, stop building out, let's start building up. Look at other smaller countries. They don't splay everywhere. They, you know, support habitat, habitat protection recovery.

[00:28:09] Kate: It's probably the best thing that you could possibly do. And in terms of supporting falconers, learn about hunting. I mean, everybody hunts, even like we was saying it earlier. Even if you're vegan, you're killing something. So okay, then just honor that. 

[00:28:22] Kellie: And be responsible. 

[00:28:23] Kate: And be responsible. Exactly. It's like folks who go out and get a cat and then let the cat go because it was more they could take on. 

[00:28:30] Kellie: And we're all... Like we were talking before. Everything's connected. 

[00:28:33] Kate: Everything is connected. Yeah. It trips me out. We have plant DNA. I love that. We're related to trees, but you know, we can't help it it's a carbon based planet. Something has to die for something to live. So, it's okay. Advocate... I mean, a huge thing would be to advocate, and I wish California would get more into it.

[00:28:48] Kate: The wildlife bridges that they're doing more and more? Those things are huge and they're so beneficial. 

[00:28:53] Kellie: If not birds of prey, what would you be doing? 

[00:28:55] Kate: Dogs. 

[00:28:55] Kellie: Dogs. 

[00:28:56] Kate: I love my dogs. I had a daycare center. It's actually still in business, but I started a daycare center in San Rafael in 1994. I call it play care. But yeah, so dogs. I love my dogs. 

[00:29:07] Kellie: And for hawks, what's the one thing you would want people to know about hawks that maybe they don't know? 

[00:29:12] Kate: They don't bite. Watch the feet. Watch the feet. But it's funny, like you're talking about a cast of hawks. I gotta do this really fast– 

[00:29:18] Kellie: Cast of falcons. Kettle of hawks. 

[00:29:20] Kate: Is it a kettle of hawks? Because I know it's a kettle of vultures. 

[00:29:22] Kellie: Kettle or kettle or boil of hawks? 

[00:29:25] Kate: A boil of hawks. I like it. 

[00:29:26] Kellie: It depends on how they're flying or whatever. Or how they're congregating. 

[00:29:29] Kate: Well, a kettle would be probably if they're soaring. 

[00:29:31] Kellie: Yeah. 

[00:29:31] Kate: Because it's called a kettle of vultures. And that's one of the things, if you see vultures, watch pay attention 'cause Golden Eagles fly with vultures. 

[00:29:38] Kellie: Really? 

[00:29:39] Kate: Because a vulture could smell a carcass from 10 miles away. 

[00:29:41] Kellie: And the eagle’s just kind of being parasitic about it. 

[00:29:43] Kate: They're just, yeah, well 'cause they're hungry, too. But you can always tell a vulture, 'cause they have something called a dihedral V where they, it kind of come, their wings kinda come up a bit like they look like this instead of like that.

[00:29:53] Kate: And they also tip, they look like drunken sailors. Whereas the eagle's gonna be huge, big, flat, straight across wings. But the same kind of cut. And the reason they tip so cool because they get, it's to spill air. If you think about like hot air balloons, when they go and they release the air to maintain their altitude, that's what that vulture's doing. She's spilling air so she can maintain her altitude. 

[00:30:15] Kellie: That is so cool. I could listen to you talk about birds of prey forever, like. I'm learning so much. 

[00:30:20] Kate: It's funny 'cause in falconry… so, we have a cast of hawks, like when we're fly Harris Hawks, we're flying them in a cast, like a cast of characters. And then when you are holding your bird to like maybe shape its beak or, or check, you'll fix its tail.

[00:30:33] Kate: You've casted the bird like, like you're casting a broken arm. And then if, uh, and we do it, sometimes I'll, I'll hold my bird by her jesses and cast her like this after prey. And then that's casting like your, like you're casting fishing, rod 

[00:30:48] Kellie: Fishing rod. I love words. 

[00:30:49] Kate: I do too. 

[00:30:50] Kellie: I love language and words. Do you have another favorite collective noun that you can think of or?

[00:30:54] Kate: Um, I, I love an unpleasantness of ravens. Yeah. I mean, everybody knows a murder of crows. It's a great name. But also, I think it's called, uh, uh, a congress of owls or a parliament of owls, 

[00:31:05] Kellie: Parliament of owls. 

[00:31:05] Kate: It's a parliament of owls, which is funny 'cause they're, well no, and actually now it makes even more sense because owls aren't very smart.

[00:31:11] Kate: And if you've ever listened to some of the, any of the, the Houses of Parliaments, oh my God. They're just, oh, what the right, good gentleman said. And just like, oh my God! 

[00:31:24] Kellie: That was a great impression. 

[00:31:26] Kate: I'm right offended the right good gentleman, dude, I think those are my favorites.

[00:31:33] Kellie: Kate mentioned a cast of hawks and casting a hawk on your arm. Have you heard of other hawk group names? Well, guess what? I'm going to give you a few. Often the group name references how the hawks are stationed or flying. A cast of hawks can refer to a group of hawks, in general. Flying a cast can mean flying two hawks together.

[00:31:55] Kellie: Also, and this is interesting, in hawk casting lingo, cast can mean the regurgitation of indigestible things like fur and bones. Okay. Yeah. Even baby dragons may not want to eat that stuff. There's a boil of hawks, you know, like boiling hot water and segue to insert podcast title here, “A Kettle of Hawks.”

[00:32:24] Kellie: They go in tandem. I mean, what's a kettle without boiling water? A kettle beginning to boil into all the activity and the building heat and hustle and bustle. There is motion and energy and ardor culminating in a noise, telling us things are heating up. And baby, that kettle sings. A kettle of hawks usually refers to hawks flying and soaring and circling amongst the clouds.

[00:32:55] Kellie: And speaking of flying high. That's how, especially Red-tailed Hawks mate.

[00:33:10] Kellie: Their courtship. Picture this, a seductive talon tango of gravity and grace and grit. A dizzying plunge, a reckless pirouette, in a place where men need metal to inhabit wind Above it all. An Icarus-worthy sun. A celestial audience of one. And then there they are. Two Red-tailed Hawks carving sinuous curvaceous arcs.

[00:33:36] Kellie: The male races like a meteor plummeting earthward only to rocket back up, flaunting his aerial bravado because… well… men and as they waltz themselves amongst the clouds and gods and goddesses and the debris of human dreams, they clasp each other with their talons and plunge back to earth. Locked together in a sex driven, Shakespearean worthy and epic Greek romance of talons and trust and titillation.

[breath exhale]

[00:34:06] Kellie: And personal anecdote that has been echoing and clawing inside me since I learned all of this. I was in a situationship, a fleeting high-altitude romance with someone I nicknamed Icarus. Because every time we chased our own reckless mating dance, he boarded a plane just to make it happen. I still call him Icarus. Because in the end, he isn't built to stay grounded.

[00:34:33] Kellie: Restless wings always outstretched daring the sun with talon trysts.

 [00:34:33] Hawk – Felipe: Si j'étais un faucon (“If I were a hawk…” translated from French)

[00:34:40] Hawk – Man: If I were a hawk, the world would unfurl beneath me in a tapestry of browns, greens, and blues. My sharp eyes would pierce the distance… spotting prey with the smallest twitch of movement, the wind would whisper secrets through my feathers as I ride the thermals.

[00:35:02] Hawk - Man: Silent and powerful.

[00:35:02] French Poetry: Il pleure dans mon cœur. Comme il pleut sur la ville. Quelle est cette langueur qui pénètre mon cœur? (“It rains in my heart. As it rains on the city. What is this languor that penetrates my heart? ”)

[00:35:12] Kellie: There are so many secrets in the world waiting to be discovered and shared. And some very much worth keeping. And making. Part of life is figuring out which is which. And it's no secret that collective nouns have been around for a really, really, really long time. Strange, poetic, oddly specific. Not exactly secrets maybe, but somehow still feeling like forgotten magic.

[00:35:41] Kellie: My other inspiration for this podcast is from one of the earliest printed lists of collective nouns from cue the Heraldic trumpets, a really, really, really long time ago. “The Boke of St. Albans” published in 1486, and who is credited with this work you might ask? Well. Dame Juliana Berners. You heard her earlier talking about tiercels, and we'll be hearing more from her in just a bit.

[00:36:08] Kellie: But first, let's address the historical quagmire this book has landed in, because as we all know, history, much like an old library has a tendency to misplace the works of women. And when it comes to medieval writing, let's just say the guest list was very exclusive. Spoiler, mostly not women. So, could a nun in the 15th century, a time when women were largely excluded from intellectual and literary circles, a lot of circles, have written a book on hawking, hunting, and heraldry? Some scholars scoff at the idea. While others argue she was very real. A nun with a keen interest in the aristocratic pastimes of her era. What do we know? One, the Boke of St. Albans exists. Fact. Two, it contains an extensive list of collective nouns, some still in use today. Three, it was attributed to Dame Juliana Berners. And here's the thing, whether she physically penned the words or not, her name endures. And in a world where women's contributions have so often been erased, where women have been erased even today, sometimes just having your name remembered and spoken is a revolution. Let's hear from the woman herself, or at least how we imagine she might sound. 

[00:37:45] Kellie: Dame Juliana Berners, what an honor and truly a marvel of time, space, string theory, multiverse mechanics, and perhaps a dash of Middle English magic, that you're joining us today, however, this delightful, temporal tangle came to be, I am certain some form of physics was involved, possibly Tardis tested, maybe even Time Lord approved, if you know, you know, wink. So, thank you for taking the time. And yes, I do mean that in the most metaphysical sense for bending it, folding it, or hopping through it to be with us today. 

[00:38:19] Dame Juliana Berners: Oh, this is quite the endeavor.

[00:38:22] Dame Juliana Berners: What a thrill. And it doesn't hurt. I might think time would bend me a bit more than it is, and yet here we are. 

[00:38:32] Kellie: Dame Juliana, quick note for our listeners, we're using a highly sophisticated, totally fictional, for now, audio filter that magically translates your Middle English into something our modern ears can follow, mostly. 

[00:38:46] Dame Juliana Berners: There is nothing middle about my English but carry on. 

[00:38:50] Kellie: You're accredited with the Boke of St. Albans, published around 1486, a long time ago. A bold, brilliant blend of hawking, hunting, and heraldry and all kinds of other stuff. Total icon move. Of course, some historians have opinions arguing there's no way a woman, let alone a nun could have penned something so authoritative back then, and creative, honestly, because you know, medieval misogyny.

[00:39:18] Kellie: But here on this podcast, we're not buying that narrative. We embrace that you did write it. So, give us the tea, Dame Juliana. Why did you write it? 

[00:39:25] Dame Juliana Berners: Hmm? 

[00:39:27] Dame Juliana Berners: Why did I write what I wrote? Because I like order. The natural world may seem unreliable and unpredictable. You may think that the leaves falling are random and the water ripple is without structure.

[00:39:44] Dame Juliana Berners: You may see the beetle without merit, the boar without mannered purpose, but there is an order to everything. And that everything demands proper documentation. Acknowledging the true nature of living things as they are is to honor them. More importantly, the true and sacral reason, and I purposely use that word anachronistically to echo myself presently. Out of order in a world I desire to put into order. Oh, just a moment, I don't know how this interview is even possible, but it's so thrilling. Oh, however, back to the matter, the true reason that I wrote the Boke of St. Albans, as if I needed a reason, is because I'm a woman. And I wasn't supposed to. 

[00:40:51] Kellie: Dame Juliana, what a merry marvel tis to have you wander through time and tale to join us here today on the podcast. I'm humbled, honored, and honestly quite giddy to share this gathering with the good, gentle woman who once gave us a gaggle, a pride, and a kindle of linguistic delight. May this be but the first of many such frolics through fantastical groupings and curious creatures.

[00:41:16] Kellie: Until we meet again, and I hope it is soon, across parchment or podcast fair thee well and may thy quill ever dance with delight. Thank you so much. 

[00:41:27] Dame Juliana Berners: It's my pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. This has been quite delightful.

[00:41:35] Hawk - Elizabeth: If I were a hawk, my trees, my sanctuary to remain hidden betwixt the branches and the spiky oak leaves. Preferring to hunt mornings. Your early stillness is my trusted friend. I cry out loudly to hear my voice that is silenced most of the time. My calculated life keeps me safe. I am safe. I am safe. If I were a hawk, I'd be safe.

[00:42:10] Hawk – Emma: Wenn ich ein Falke wäre. (“If I were a hawk…” translated from German)

[00:42:11] Kellie: While producing and writing this episode, my very first podcast ever, and learning all of the things I've learned from Kate, after taking her basic falconry lesson and doing all the research about hawks, all of a sudden it hit me and I remembered that my niece and I used to play a game in the front yard years ago.

[00:42:29] Kellie: This game, she completely made up from her imagination and like many of her games we ran, we shouted, we laughed. In this one particularly, we flapped our arms wild and free until we swore we could lift off the ground. And I think we actually did. Yes, my niece called the game, you guessed it, Hawk. We were hawks, and we were soaring. And well not gonna lie, full disclosure, there may have been some nest raiding and, and we might just might have dined on a few imaginary birds. But isn't that the beauty and fun of it? The world through a child's eyes, where anything is possible, where wings are waiting to be stretched. 

[00:43:21] Hawk - Olivia: If I were a hawk, I would fly around everywhere and kill my worst enemies.

[playful laughter]

[hawk screeches]

[00:43:30] Kate Marden: So, that's the falcons, these are the hawks. Yes. We keep them separated. They will, come in over here in the shade for a minute, they will kill each other. Um, 'cause they're predators. 

[hawk screeches]

[00:43:42] Kellie: So, had I known what I know now about hawks? I might've won that game against my niece. I mean, maybe at least once. Somehow though, she always wins. Yes, my niece may or may not have me wrapped around her finger, which reminds me some of the phrases we use every day? They come straight from falconry. Ever had someone wrapped around your finger? That phrase literally comes from falconers, who wrap jesses, small leather straps around their fingers to keep their bird close and under control.

[00:44:17] Kellie: So, next time you say it, just picture yourself with a hawk perched on your hand. Power move. Maybe you've been hoodwinked, tricked, deceived. led astray. Falconers place a hood over a raptor's head to keep it calm and unaware of its surroundings. So, if you've been hoodwinked, well, I have to tell you, someone's got you in the dark.

[00:44:40] Kellie: Fed up for us means bothered or annoyed. In falconry, if you want your bird to hunt, make sure it's hungry. If it's fed up with food, it's not going to hunt, and you may not get to eat. And how about haggard? Looking exhausted, worn down like you just pulled an all-nighter? In falconry, a haggard is a wild caught adult hawk.

[00:45:00] Kellie: Say that fast five times. Wild caught adult hawk. Wild caught adult hawk. Ooh, I got through two. You know, words and history are so much fun. And speaking of history, this is so, so, so cool. In 2010, falconry was added to UNESCO's Representative List of the Intangible Cultural Heritage of Humanity. If you haven't checked out UNESCO's website before, you really should.

[00:45:26] Kellie: It's like a global treasure chest of cultural traditions. Agricultural practices in Africa, masked dances in Thailand, oral storytelling rituals from every corner of the world. Basically, UNESCO is out here safeguarding and celebrating what it means to be human, and we really, really need that right now.

[00:45:47] Kellie: And you know how I learned all of this? Because of curiosity and researching hawks. I love this world. Discovery is endless. 

[wings flapping]

[00:45:59] Shawn: If I were a hawk, I'd be... Ethan, 

[00:46:04] Kellie: Shawn O'Neal, my bestie... recently, Shawn. 

[00:46:09] Shawn: Very recently... 

[00:46:09] Kellie: We took a basic falconry class at West Coast Falconry. We had freaking hawks land on our arms and fly away. When you thought of hawks, if you thought of hawks, what did you think of? 

[00:46:22] Shawn: Birds that fly around out here and eat... eat the animals that run around the road at night. 

[00:46:28] Kellie: Only at night? 

[00:46:29] Shawn: Well, I don't see 'em during the day so I'm assuming they're running around at night. 

[00:46:32] Kellie: Are hawks nocturnal? 

[00:46:34] Shawn: Oh no, I meant the rodent.

[00:46:35] Kellie: I would imagine hawks are like anytime they're awake they're... 

[00:46:38] Shawn: I would think so. 

[00:46:39] Kellie: I'll have to fact check that. I'm fact checking a lot of things lately. So, hawks, you just thought about flying animals? 

[00:46:45] Shawn: Well, I think of birds of prey and, and scary kind of intimidating. Not all birds, you know, eat live animals like I grew up with, you know, parakeets and things.

[00:46:55] Shawn: But when you think of hawk, I think of something that would fly down and, you know... 

[00:46:59] Kellie: Eat your face. 

[00:47:00] Shawn: Or at least snatch the piece of pizza out of your hand and fly away with…

[00:47:03] Kellie: Can you imagine just sitting at a picnic having piece of pizza and like these talons come down and... 

[00:47:08] Shawn: Well, I see that with like, pigeons and things and… fun and games, but when it's something like, a hawk, you're right, there goes your face.

[00:47:16] Shawn: So, they thi… they used to seem very kind of scary and intimidating to me. Very much so, because I've seen what little parakeet beaks bit my, you know, ear lobe and I was like, Ooh, I can't imagine something with like a big, big beak, let alone its talons. So, when you brought this up that we should go do this, and I had no idea something existed so close to us where we can go and experience it, and it was far more entertaining than I thought it was going to be. And it was extremely exciting. And it was very much a lot of fun. 

[00:47:49] Kellie: It was so much fun. Very educational. Now I went into it being afraid of birds. I've always been kind of afraid of birds 'cause they, I feel like they have the power over me.

[00:47:58] Kellie: Now I will say, when we walked up and we saw the enclosure where the hawks and falcons were, it was beautiful, but also a little eerie that they were just kind of sitting there watching us, and I'm like, if, if they were in charge of the world, I think they might take us out. 

[00:48:13] Shawn: I think they were hungry. 

[00:48:14] Kellie: I mean... 

[00:48:14] Shawn: they were looking at us like... 

[00:48:15] Kellie: if I was a hawk in charge of the world, I might take humans out too, because... 

[00:48:19] Shawn: well, you know what? You gotta eat. 

[00:48:21] Kellie: You gotta eat. Okay. So, we get there at the crack of dawn. We're early. 

[00:48:26] Shawn: It was so early. 

[00:48:27] Kellie: So, we first got lessons on how to... Well first, I think my favorite part is we got to wear these gloves. 

[00:48:36] Shawn: Yeah, they passed out gloves. 

[00:48:37] Kellie: They passed out falconry gloves. I'm like, I've never had this much leather before in my life.

[00:48:42] Kellie: It was very exciting. I mean, if you're gonna take up falconry for anything, maybe just for the leather. 

[00:48:49] Shawn: Right, it was intimidating thing 'cause you knew what was coming. I kept thinking birds are gonna land on this arm. Birds are gonna land on this arm, birds are gonna land on this arm. And the anticipation was very exciting to watch how big these things were leading up to it.

[00:48:59] Kellie: They trained us on how to position our arms, what to do. Be mindful of your arm because if you had it in a certain position before you're ready to call the bird. And the bird who did the class for us, his name is Diego. He's so, he did the class for us and, but we had to be mindful about how to hold our arms, when to do it, how to look, which position to have... 

[00:49:20] Shawn: How to stand, when to turn, how to turn, what to look at, who to look at.

[00:49:24] Kate: When we are holding a bird of prey, we are holding a mug of our favorite beverage. That means thumb on top, nice, strong fist. What happens if you hold your drink like this? 

[00:49:33] Kellie: It spills. 

[00:49:34] Kate: It spills. When we want the bird to take off from our glove. You're gonna hold your arm out like this. Because he’s got wings in things, and that's good 'cause you again, your wrist, you're not holding it down here, you're doing it just like that because he is, he's got wings and if you hold it close, you're gonna get smacked in the face. 

[wings flapping]

[00:49:53] Kellie: Falconry is not just uh, a weekend endeavor, like, I think to be obviously a master falconer, Kate talked about like the years of training and patience you have to have.

[00:50:04] Kellie: What did you feel like the first time Diego landed on your arm? 

[00:50:08] Shawn: It was less intimidating than I thought it was gonna be, and more exhilarating. And by exhilarating, I think... I don't know what to expect. 

[00:50:16] Kellie: I get why she does what she does. One, these birds are magnificent. I'm tearing up a little bit right now.

[00:50:22] Kellie: They're gorgeous. They're powerful. They're graceful. They have such a long history throughout our world and… and helping us as humans and hunter… hunting. And... 

[00:50:31] Shawn: The most exciting part of… of… of everything we're talking about was how the bird moved when it flew up and it came back down, it moved very much how dragons are depicted.

[00:50:42] Shawn: When they're kind of flapping in space, it kind of went, like its whole body went like vertical and its wings kind of, um, flapped out and it, it was really quite a sight. Very, very beautiful and intimidating all at once. 

[00:50:54] Kellie: But also, they are like little dinosaurs and like holding this bird on your arm and looking at it and… and, okay, it's not gonna eat my face.

[00:51:01] Kellie: And were these two living things on the planet at the same time… having this moment, like what? I was blown away, and it kind of blows my mind for people who do falconry for passion or work or whatever, is that these birds at any given time can just not come back. 

[00:51:21] Shawn: Yeah, she made reference to that. 

[00:51:23] Kellie: And you invest so much time and you know, money and resources, but I think also love and passion and devotion and these birds might just break your heart and say, “I'm outta here.”

[00:51:38] Kellie: Bye. 

[00:51:39] Shawn: And there's kind of a… a… a respect to that kind of freedom that they're allowed sometimes as well. 

[00:51:43] Kellie: True. I mean, and if you think about it, human beings can kind of do that and do do that to us sometimes, too. Like you're in a relationship, you invest a lot, time, money, love, blood, sweat, and tears. And at any given moment somebody can just say, “I'm out.”

[00:51:58] Kellie: And sometimes they don't say, “I'm out.” They're just out for whatever reason. But there's, I think there's just heartbreak in when things end and leave, and sometimes those birds leave. I know, real downer. 

[00:52:11] Hawk - Ruby: If I were a hawk, I'd soar above the earth patiently waiting. If I were a hawk, you would only catch glimpses of me as I glided above the tree line.

[00:52:27] Hawk - Ruby: If I were a hawk, I'd keep watchful eyes upon you. Not as my prey, but as the one I protected and always guided to safety.

[hawk screeches]

[00:52:44] Kellie: Whether we're soaring untethered, chasing love, searching for prey, for safety, or simply for a steady hand to hold in the night, what matters most is the journey. The stories we cast, the paths we cross, the histories we uncover, the poetry woven into the way we move through the world and with each other.

[00:53:08] Kellie: There is so much wonder to explore. Like the beauty of collective nouns, like the way a kettle of hawks spirals on unseen currents. Each wing beat a quiet promise to rise. A symphony of possibility. Like Kate Marden's journey... one that led her from a spark of curiosity to the mastery of falconry itself.

[00:53:31] Kellie: She's an inspiration, a reminder that passion has wings, and if you follow it, it will take you places you never imagined. And I never imagined I'd be a podcaster. I'm Kellie, and thank you for soaring with me through this premier episode of “A Gather of Gatherings” as we unraveled the fierce feathered poetry of hawks.

[00:53:54] Kellie: Check the show notes for some truly fascinating resources and a heartfelt thanks to all the creative souls, friends and family who contributed to this episode. And again, an especially deep bow to West Coast Falconry in Marysville, California for introducing me to their baby dragons Diego and Avalon. But don't let the journey end here, please, subscribe, share, like wherever you listen to podcasts. And join me next time as we chase another gathering, another mystery, another story waiting to take flight. Until then. What's your favorite collective noun?