14 l The Curly Hair Trauma Episode

Another episode about hair?! Guys, the curly hair community NEEDS this one, I need this one. The haters will say trauma from curly hair is a stretch - by haters I mean people without curly hair! Anyone with curly hair knows it's a fucking struggle, a beautiful struggle, but still a struggle. 

Meet my hair stylist, Valerie or Val of ValCutColor. Val is a curl specialist and the first specialist I found in LA - after 7/8 years of trying 7 different curl stylists in LA before her. When I got my extensions out for good, I had two not very cash money hair cuts before I found Val, who spent 4 hours putting my hair back together. She went curl by curl to get it to the sexy as hell place it's in today. 

Curly hair is more expensive, it requires more time, internalized racism and microaggressions surround curly hair. Curly haircare is is muddled with misinformation and a lack of education. People can be ashamed of their curly hair and reluctant to own it for a while, if not forever. 

Knowing all this, when Val heard my story, she extended a level of empathy that is so hard to find and get from beauty specialists. I'm not the only one she has extended that empathy, time, love, and care to - she extends it to all her clients. She knows all curly q's have had a lifetime of niche trauma.

There is barely any discourse in the community about this, so I figured, I would create it.  I owe it both to myself and all curly girlies. 

Win most, lose some

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 Website : https://www.gabriellarebranded.com/

Val's website: https://www.valcutcolorla.com/

Val's Instagram: @Valcutcolor

Val's Recommendation: 

The Answer to How is Yes by Peter Block

https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-answer-to-how-is-yes-peter-block/1122984927

Chapters

• 0:00 Intro
• 1:28 What exactly is a hair stylist?
• 6:31 The Curly Hair Empath
• 13:19 Why curls?
• 17:50 How Val got into hair
• 24:10 Trauma that accompanies curly hair
• 37:07 Ample misinformation re:curls
• 46:00 Pricing hair services
• 52:27 The pink, black, and brown tax
• 57:21 Love your hair at all stages
• 1:03:30 Val's content rec
• 1:06:58 Spiritual Moment of the Week
• 1:10:39 Val's Info & Bye!

Transcript

A curly haircut above the ears is, you know, this, as long as it's not a transformational cut. If we're like doing a maintenance cut, it's like whatever it is and they get upset. They're like, but it's just like, it's just short. It's just like a men's cut. And I'm like, okay, well. - Curly haircut above the ears. - Yeah, curly hair, yeah, curly hair. Like also there's a reason why you were searching for a curly hair stylist. And there's a reason why that $45 haircut hasn't been satisfying you. Yes, you know, it's like you're gonna like, come on. Yes, exactly. You know, you need more. Yes. So iwhat it is.

Almost dying taught me how to live. Being struck by a car left me in a three and a half week coma with 15 broken bones and 16 surgeries to complete, including brain surgery. However, I woke up from that coma in an even greater place than I ever saw for myself. How? The universe will guide you out of the darkness and into the light if you allow it. Often, spirituality comes off as too high a brow. I'm not about that. Welcome to the podcast that talks and teaches about it through the lens of humor. Together we'll harness positive energy and use it to work with the universe all while giggling the entire time Welcome to Gabriella rebranded win most, lose some

Yeah, I am welcome to the Gabriella, but I'm not that fancy. I'm not that fancy I guess it's Talk about like it's my turn to come into your office. - Oh my God, it is my turn to come into your office. - Yeah, my turn to come into your office. - Oh yeah, that's what I mean. It's your turn. It's your turn. Valerie's turn. Val to come into my office. I usually go into your office. This is amazing. This is Valerie of Val -Cut -Color. - You're my guest and this time I'm your guest. - Oh my God. Whoa, the role of reversal. This is Valerie of Val cut color. She cuts my hair. I like it. I usually I'm her guest I don't know how to be in the chair in front of the camera. I only know how to be behind You only know how to be behind. Yeah, I only know how to be the science behind wait question This is okay. I don't know what to call people that cut hair. I literally was and like hair cutter people What do you call people that cut hair like a hair colorist is a hair - Hair cutter? - You can say hairstylist. - Hair stylist. - So typically, okay. - Okay. - Typically, if you're going to the type of salon where it's divided, right. - Yes. - A hair colorist does color and they might be doing some like blowouts, right. - Okay. - But really, when it comes to the styling, That gets passed off to the person who cuts the hair and then styles it. For example, if you see people on the red carpet, like celebrities, whatever, they go to the colorist to get the color done, the stylist cuts the hair and the hair stylist, that's part of the glam squad. The colorist is not part of the glam squad, really. The stylist is part of the glam squad. You're saying? That's - One way to put it. - This would make sense because at my podcast launch, it was like you were my glam squad. - Yeah. - Like when I was going up to do my little talk, I'm like fixing my hair before I went. - Yeah. - You were like my glam squad. - Yeah. - Oh my God. - And I had a teeny bit of experience doing that. - You were, wait, so you cut curly hair now, that's what you do. - Yeah. - But when did you-- - And I color too. - You wanted, oh, 'cause in your, oh, and you color too, that was stupid of me. And in your, 'cause when I was doing my research on you, one of the things you did is you assisted-- - A celebrity stylist. - A celebrity stylist. - Yeah, and I don't need, I mean, it's in the bio, but I don't need to name it verbally in here, but-- - No, but you've been on a glam squad. You've assisted-- - Basically, yeah. - Yes, oh my God, what was that I'm intense. There's no reason why I'm not doing it anymore. Okay. If I was Single, I think I would have continued to do it single and younger. Okay. It was Very physical. Oh, okay being well at least being an assistant was very physical because it was my job to Shlep everything over and the oops the the stylist I was assisting. Yeah - Yeah. - His like specialty was, or is wigs? Yeah, I mean, I only did it for this one. So this stylist, he doesn't work in a salon. So you might see a lot of celebrity hairstylists who work in a salon. He used to work in a salon a long time ago, but now he just goes on location, photo photoshoots, whatever, music video, filming, red carpets, and then their homes, right? And he's known for his wigs. And I would have to carry around like a snowboarding luggage size like hair because he wanted to be like ready for whatever the client, whatever hairstyle they wanted. And if they switched it up or if they decided halfway through, actually we want two looks. He won't, you know, hey, I want long hair in this one. And then I want short hair. That one, like we just needed to be ready, ready to go. So I was the one who had to carry around that luggage and then there was also the tools and product luggage, like again like snowboarding sized luggage. It was like so heavy. And he didn't, or doesn't drive. So it was like, it was just all of my responsibility, you know? Yeah. When my hair fell out and I had a wig at first before my hair was I'm gonna for extensions. I learned how many times celebrity looks they're wearing wigs and I was shocked. - Oh yeah. - And it was like, they were like, how do you think she is bleached to pink hair one day? That's straight and down to here. And then the next day she has short black curly hair and I was like, I guess that makes sense. 

But I never, but I've already had my extensions person on here, and we did it 'cause you know, hair falling out, illness, that's a trauma. Now I have a second hair person on here, you are my hair cutter person, why do I have you here? Well, what are we talking about? What's the reason that Val Cut Color is here? She is here because you're a curly hair specialist, and all our appointments, you're the first person that wasn't me, I'm joking, who you would talk about curly hair trauma. And I was like, this would be so interesting to actually like record an episode on like the trauma that comes from having curly hair because there is. Yeah. And people, there's a lot. Yeah. And people that are listening that don't have curly hair are probably like, what are you talking about? Yeah. But will, but that's part of what the trauma is because people have no idea anything about the curly hair community. But we'll get into that. But first, I want to tell how I met you. So I met Val. I literally just looked this up yesterday to make sure I got it right. You caught my hair for the first time in August 2024. And I prior to seeing you had gone through seven seven different haircutter people, specifically in Los Angeles for curly hair, including, I won't name drop on the podcast, but like someone that you know, that you used to work with actually, who's really like big in the curly hair community. And no one worked. And I since 2016 for seven years have been trying to find a haircut person in LA and none of them really stuck. stuck. Then my hair fell on my head. I had my extensions. Came back. First cut was terrible. Second cut was better, but it was someone in New York. Came back to LA. Asked the person who colors my hair for a hair cutter they recommended. They gave me one at their salon. Didn't um didn't like that either um i was truly like holding out for a hero and just like googling and like someone please tell me like give me a haircut person in my life found you went to you in august 2024 and you felt for me given my because i obviously obviously want to go to haircut people you have to tell them like i've brain surgeries yeah because because that's apparent, you felt for me, you felt for my story, you saw that my hair was a mess from the extensions and the horrible cuts I had gotten in between, and you spent four hours reshaping my hair. And finally I found someone who gave my hair the love it deserved and actually worked with me to treat it. So that is how I first met you and just like yeah before I ask you more questions like speak to a little bit about that to just like The level of empathy you have for your customers and like where that comes from I Mean well, I think I've always been an empathetic person and it's something that I actively Work toward in my own life just increasing Empathy empathy, and my ability to listen and be present and make someone feel heard, that's like super important to me. And then what was the other part of the question? Well, just, I was just, I was just asking about like, like, I feel like a lot of times specialists, because it's such like a sort of, it can be such a chop shop machine of just like at salons. You work for yourself, you have your own studio, you do it yourself, but it can be just so that you're almost like removed from the client a little bit. - Yeah, so I knew from the beginning, even when I was in school, that I didn't want to be a turn and burn type of stylist. - Okay. - Okay, I knew that I didn't want to just be at a salon where typically like walk -ins, and I would have like a boss hovering above me, like wanting me to hurry up. Okay? Okay. So I knew that already. And then when I was in school and then after school, I worked at salons as like receptionist, assistant, and then just, you know, hairstylist, I would just watch and like see the emotion on everyone's face when a stylist, like let's say they would go in for a stylist and they're like, you know, hey, actually, I'm not sure I want the color, maybe I just want the cut. And the stylist would say like, but you booked this time, you know, and it was like, oh, okay. And like that pressure to just like, okay, I guess I'm paying for this now, you know, and I wanted to make sure like, I'm booking extra time for, you know, for anyone who comes to me, and I don't want to make anyone feel pressured. And especially book, you know, now I'm a lot, you know, when I do your hair, now it's like two hours. - I know your hair, I don't need to go through the education all over again, you know? And it's less of a corrective cut, you know? But having that space is so important because a lot of times like what my mentors at salons or even school would say is like a consultation should be like 10, 15 minutes. But for curly hair, what I've noticed is like, sometimes I need that like 30 minutes. Because if you know someone's sharing their hair trauma with me, and they're like hesitant for me to even like cut their hair, I take that time to one get to know their hair of course and what they want. But I also want to know what has traumatized them. So one, I make sure I don't do that. Two if I think I might do that I could say like hey, you know Like let me give you your money back and I'm gonna send you to this curly hair style Yes, you might be better for you. I haven't had to do that, but I'm ready to do that. You're prepared to do that Yeah, okay, um just holding space. Okay, and you talk about curly hair trouble Which we're obviously gonna dive into on this episode But I

know that you originally you got into cutting hair. 

When you first got into hair, well, you had a little bit of a journey 'cause you didn't start out with hair right away. But when you got into hair, you said, "I wanna serve an underserved community." Curly hair. So one talk about that a little bit, but then also my follow -up to that would be, at what point along that journey, or did you always know that there was a bit of trauma associated associated with curly hair. - I think I've always known because, well, I've loved hair forever, even when I wasn't in hair. I have an auntie who has like super curly hair, and I went to her hometown and we were looking at the photos of her growing up. And when I was a kid, I remember looking at it and you have poodle hair, you know, and it looked like a poodle, right? And she was just like, oh my God, it took me years to figure it out, like bullying and talking about all of that. So I was roughly like, I don't know, 11 or 12 hearing that. So I was already like, oh, okay. Like, you know, you didn't have what you needed to feel - Yes. - Or pretty. And you were clearly getting haircuts and no one knew how to help you. - Literally me. - You know? Like, yeah. - No one realized I had, I had really curly hair when I was a really small child. - Yeah. - And then my hair went like a corkscrew, it was adorable. And then my hair went straight when I was like five, six. I talked about this on another episode, but maybe people didn't listen to that. And then my hair got curly again when I started going through puberty, like 11, 12. But no one realized that. So everyone was just cutting it like it was normal hair and I was brushing it while I was dry and I just thought I'd really bad really frizzy hair. And then finally when I was like 13, 14, someone was cutting my hair that happened to be a curly hair specialist. And they were like, you dumb bitch, you don't have bad frizzy hair, you have curly hair. And I was like, oh, okay, because neither of my parents do. Yeah. But anyway, that was was my brief little bit. - Yeah. - Continue. - I just, yeah, I think I always knew. - You always knew. - Yeah, and when I was, so one of, in elementary school, one of my close friends, her mom was or is a black beautician. - Okay. - And I got used to recognizing how, like what her hair looked like when it is like freshly pressed. Okay. - Okay. - So then, you know, now going through like high school and I would see like black girls and it was like they just got their hair freshly pressed. A bunch of people, like other students would say like, oh, did you get a haircut? And I would just jump in and be like, no, she just got it freshly pressed. Like, you know, she just got a press. And they'd be like, wow, you're the only like non -black girl to like recognize that and then I just have conversations like how often do you do it? You know like oh once a week and like oh, do you ever let your hair go curly? It's like no, I don't let anyone see my hair curly the only yeah So this was in high school Someone said to me the only person who sees my hair curly is My hairstylist when I'm walking from the wash bowl to the chair Wow Time she's like I don't like it, I don't let anyone see it. And I think that was another moment for me where I was like, okay, there's something, well, there's something that I don't know. - Yes. - You know? Like, I don't know what that's like. - Yeah, especially because your own hair didn't go curly until you were like 25, right? - Yes, well, to my knowledge. - Okay, to your knowledge. - When I came licensed, I reached out to the hairstylist who cut my hair in high school. And I asked her if I could cut her hair. I was like, "Would you be a model for me? I want to cut your hair." And she lives an hour and a half away and she was like, "Yeah, let me take a break from being a mom. I need my hair done. I haven't had it cut in years." Come on over. So I was telling her this journey for me, and she was like, "You had wavy hair in high school." I was like, "What are you talking about?" And she was like, "Yeah, you just burned it with the flat iron." But like, your hair was wavy. I was like, "Oh my god." - "Oh my god." - "Oh my god." And then she's like, and then it just wouldn't hold a curl because you - - "You burned it with a flat iron." - "I was frying it." And I was like, "Oh, okay." - "Okay, okay." - "All right." 

So do you want to go in you did want to go into curly hair before you even knew that your own hair was curly You just want to go into curly hair from the beginning Before my hair was okay curly or where before I thought before I realized it was curly. Yes I would watch hair cutting videos. Okay, like that was my relaxing downtime at night I'm like I'm gonna watch hair cutting videos and it's like hmm like watching it be styled like that's nice But you - That was so funny, that was your downtime, right? - Yeah, I know, that was my downtime. And I, even back then would say, and I had been saying since I was 18, I'm gonna go to cosmetology school someday. I was saying that, and I was like, I don't care if I do it when I'm 60, when I'm retired, I'm gonna do it, and I'll just be part time, and I'm going to, I'm gonna do curly hair and I want to do like women with like even like super dense, thick, straight hair, you know, because, you know, that takes a special, that takes special knowledge too, to make it not look like kind of like choppy, which I don't necessarily have. So I can't do it all. - You can't do it all. - I can't do it all, yeah. - Yes you can, you're (both laughing) - Yes, you can. (both laughing) - Yeah. Yeah, yes, I can. (both laughing) - But that, so you were, I know you, the audience doesn't know, but I know, you were in wine for a little bit before you got into hair, but you always wanted to make that transition to hair. - Yeah, so I started cut, I did my first haircut when I was 16. - Okay, - Okay, and you weren't licensed yet? - Absolutely not. - Okay, all right. - Nope. - Okay. - Nope. Yeah, I did my first haircut when I was 16 in my parent's backyard. And then in college, I would come home every six or so weeks to cut my dad's and my brother's hair. And then a couple of times, like just on the dorm floor, I had some guys asking me to cut their hair. So it was just kind of like a fun thing. And then in high school for like prom or homecoming or whatever, I had like a few friends be like, can you style my hair? So I was styling their hair. And then in college, it was like, hey, I have like sorority formal or whatever, or I have, you know, whatever it might be. Can you do - I've always been the hair girl, always. - Yes, I've always been the hair girl. - Okay. - Just loved it, loved it, loved it. - Okay. - So there are like, you know, a bunch of career paths that I think could have made me happy and I would have excelled at 'cause I'm a woman and I can do anything. - You can do anything, you're a woman. - I can do anything, you're a woman. But I don't know, about junior year of college, I was just like, you know, I've been doing these like school jobs, like, you know, working for the school, like admin or whatever. - Yeah. - Like, but I need an internship because I need to be prepared for, like, the workforce. And I didn't know exactly what I wanted to do, but I knew I wanted to have fun. And-- - Wine is fun. - Wine is fun. - Yeah, wine is fun. - Wine is fun. So I just thought, like, how can I make this happen for myself? And I just started asking around, and someone, like a friend said, "Oh, our friend's dad has some kind o wine company. I don't know what it is." Somalia. It wasn't, but it's actually a wine auction house. A wine auction house, all right. But that was actually exciting to me because my degree was in economics, and I know that economists build auctions. And one of my favorite in college was uh international economics. Yes. So I was like okay how can I make this happen for myself? What if I like this is my just way to enter into the wine industry and long -term goal I want to be an importer. Okay. That's how I can merge my degree with something fun. Okay. Um and it didn't happen so you know um But yeah, so I ended up working for the wine auction house when I was in college. Did it happen? Well, the importer importing didn't happen. I got close. I worked for an importer. Okay. Yeah, I got close. I wasn't doing anything related to importing. Um, that's when I realized that I, like, it just, - It was not a young woman's world. - It was not a young woman's world. - No, it was an old rich white man's world. - Yeah, that's what I would think. That's what I would think. - Yeah, it was like, oh, it's not. Even new money is like hard to break into. You need old money, you know? - You need old money, you have old money. - You need old connections, yeah. - Okay. - And then the wine that I liked was already like, the wineries already had like contracts with importers here. So it's like, like exclusivity, you know, so I was like, because people are like, well, why don't you just start your own importing business? And I'm like, I'm not going to like, I just, I'm not a competitive person. I'm not trying to compete, you know. So we went to here instead. Yeah. Well, I had one more wine job after that, which actually fit na goal too, because my minor in college was leadership studies, and I wrote mym capstone about wanting to change the wine industry for women. And so right when I was like ready to give up on the wine industry altogether, recruiters came to me and they're like, Hey, we have this with like black women owned winery here in the Bay area, they're looking for someone. And I was like, - Oh, that's me. - Oh, that's your thing. - Like ding, ding, ding. Like, yeah, I can do this. Even though it had nothing to do with importing, I'm like, whatever, I'm here to help women. I'm here. And they would say all the time, like we're serving the underserved. And I'm like, yep, this is part of my mission. So I'm here. - That's what you want to do. All right. So then when you got into hair after you did this, you went in with like, I'm serving the underserved 'cause I know that's how you started. So you got curly hair. Yeah.

And you obviously kind of knew already that there was like a certain amount of trauma that came with having curly hair. But once you started working with curly clients, how quickly did you start to see like people's personal trauma like from their hair come to light? Or like, do you think you really understood the gravity of it until you started working with clients? I understood even before I had experiences with certain clients or guests and their trauma. So it was like just very quickly because as soon as someone would sit down, I would say like, you know, tell me about your hair, you know, why are we here today? You know, you need to cut, you know, but But what's, and I would always ask, what do you not like about your hair? What do you, 'cause people know what they don't like, but they don't really know what they like, you know? - Yeah, yeah. - So my approach to figuring that out is like, what don't you like? What bothers you? And if I usually just give them the floor, they'll just start talking and they'll start telling me me trauma. And I think one of the heaviest experiences I had with a guest was someone who lost their house in the LA fires earlier this year. Yeah. Yeah. So I was offering free hair care. Yeah. I know that was amazing. I have to give you credit. I have to just like give you some snaps. You were you you're offering, 'cause curly hair, and this we'll get into as well, curly hair is so expensive, everything we have to put into our hair is so expensive. And after the LA fires, you were offering curly women free hair care. - Yes. - Yes. - And it like, I mean, they needed it. A lot of the time they were coming in, they're like, I don't have a hairbrush anymore. I don't have conditioner,

and I'm like, oh my God, what do I have, can You take this is half used, but like, will this get you? But, you know, like this is what I can offer. Um, but yeah, I had a black woman come in with the tightest texture. Not that I've ever like had in my chair, like period. Um, but for a haircut specifically, I had people with like really tight textures, I was like styling it. - Okay. But for a haircut specifically? - Hair cut, yeah. So she actually came in just for a style and then she let me-- - Cut her hair. - Yeah, she let me cut it. I mean, I didn't do like a full cut. I was like, hey, why don't we just shape it a little bit while we're here. And this is like a free service. I let her talk for like an hour and she was telling me how She was really nervous about trusting me, and I just validated her, and I'm like, "Hey, that's fair. When we're done with the consultation, if you still don't want me to touch your hair, I have the girl for you." And I know she's offering free services too. But she almost wouldn't even really make eye contact with me. She felt so Traumatized, you know, and then so she ended up loving it and Because you do amazing. Thank you She booked an appointment for her mom the next week and her mom was even more like a little old school and like Like she would like say to my face. She's like, I don't know if I could trust you and I'm like, that's okay Let's talk about it. - Yes. - And if you don't want to, I don't need to touch it. - Not good, yes. - But that's okay, you know, let's. But also for her mom, there was no haircut involved. So I'm like, it's also like a low commitment. I'm just cleaning your hair, you know? Like we could just think of it that way. But she ended up loving it too. - Okay, amazing. And now just to like give a little specificity for the listeners. We keep talking about curly hair trauma. Like you've seen all these clients of curly hair trauma. Can you just tell the listeners like some of the most common sources of trauma? Like, what is curly hair trauma? What is it? What are we talking about? So there's physical trauma. Okay. You know, having hairstylists or mothers or aunties or whoever not be patient with detangling. Okay. And that's just like pulling on, you know, hair. So when I have someone and I'm like, hey, let me know if this is hurting. And they're like, oh, I'm used to it. You know, people been like ripping out my hair forever. And I'm like, I'm so sorry. I rip out my own hair. Yeah. I'm so sorry that's happened. And I'm sorry that you've gotten so used to it. I don't like that. And I don't want you to feel used to it in my chair. You know, you can do that at home if you want. Yeah. Um, So there's like that physical trauma, being told it's unprofessional. This was, you told me a specific story about someone being told that their curly hair was unprofessional. And like, someone who they had bangs, they worked at a restaurant and they were like, yes, they were told like, - Basically they're not allowed to have their hair curly at work. - Yeah, so she has to, she pulls it back into like a slicked bun. - Yes. - And she doesn't when her hair is wet, which I'm like, ugh, you know. - You shouldn't do that. - Not great, but you know, but she's like, that's how I get it smooth without like blowing it out or using hot tools, right? And yeah, she was getting talked to about it for letting her curly bangs down. She'd have the rest of her hair out back and bangs down. And in the employee manual, it specifically said bangs are okay, okay? And she would say, "What about her over there? She has her bangs down, but that girl's hair is straight." And they're like, "Well, we don't want your hair falling to the food and she said to them, there's less risk of my hair falling into the food because when curly hair comes out of the head, it's stuck there in the curl. We have way more risk for those bangs falling into like the food than mine. And they still just said like, well, you need to put it back because you need to, you know, basically you need to look professional. - Yeah, there's an assumption that curly hair hair is dirty, kind of, yeah. - Yeah, which like, what? - And that it's like, yeah. And that it's like unwashed and not taken care of. And it's like, my hair is the most curly when I've freshly washed it, like it doesn't make sense. - Yeah, and like this person specifically, so she's not my client. I know her from the gym that I go to. She works out almost every day and I know she's washing it all the time works out. Yeah, almost every day. Yeah. I'm like, she is a clean person. Like, what are you talking about? That's crazy. You know, anyone who knows her, like, can see that she's like a hygienic person. And it's like, this isn't about hair falling in the food. This is about the fact that it's curling. Yeah. Yeah. So there's those like, I don't know, like micro aggressions. Let's call it what it is. It's racism. Yeah. You know, yeah, multiple forms of racism, that's like, I think the main trauma and like, even for like, me and my family, so being Filipinos, um, oh god, I can show you pictures of what Filipinos looked like before being colonized by the Spaniards, hairs like kinky, curly, like all and - The Filipinos also have curly hair, too, right? But that like, I don't know, what is it called when you internalized racism? - Yeah, internalized racism, yeah. - Yeah, feeling like not beautiful. And like the colorism in the Philippines is like crazy. And just wanting to look more light -skinned, smoother hair, that's the clean look for Filipinos, you know? Not a lot of makeup, smooth, straight hair, as light -skinned as possible, like whitening creams type of thing. Yeah, and the people who are darker with curly hair are like kept, don't belong in the city type of thing. - Okay. -

And it's like, that translates across to a lot of ethnicities, you know, or even just like anyone curly here in America. And I looked this up today, 65, let's call it 60 to 70 % of Americans have some type of wave curl coil to their hair. They got to bend in their hair, right? But our beauty standard is straight hair. Straight hair, yeah. Yeah. You know? And so to be told that that's the beauty standard, that makes someone look in the mirror and not feel pretty. Or you wake up, let's say your hair is like like mine today, and then looking in the mirror and thinking like, oh, I'm going to straighten to straighten it or else I'm not gonna get, I'm not gonna do well in this job interview. They're gonna judge me or whatever. I'm not gonna look professional. I can't be on camera with curly or frizzy hair. - Yeah. And I started keeping my hair curly in high school. I didn't know the routine because that's another thing no one knows about it. So like I was doing the wrong things for so long. But I started keeping my hair curly in high school, but like, I did that relatively early. Like, I have so many friends who are just owning their curly hair now in their 20s. And then like, not only you told me that your dad just started owning the fact that he has curly hair, which I love, this is such a funny story. But like, for some, but it takes you, it like weirdly, or not weirdly, it makes a lot of sense. You wouldn't know if you're not, if you don't have curly hair, but it takes a very long time to own the fact that you have curly hair 'cause you're told that it's incorrect for such a long time. For me, it was just my hair was so bad when it wasn't curly that I was like,

this has got to be a little bit better. But I remember the first day I wore my hair to school curly. I'll never forget it. I was in the seventh grade. I was in Mr. Koondel’s English class. And I was sitting in my little desk next to this girl, who was my friend, who was my friend, but it was the first day I wore my hair curly and everyone had known me as having just this frizzy, not nice hair before. And she was like, when I had my hair curly and she was like, no, I actually liked the old way better. When my hair was terrible and I wasn't taking care of it. - Brushed out. She was like, no, I like the old way. But Like literally telling me that even though that was frisier and like a worse way of like taking care of it and like meaner to my hair, that that was better 'cause it was straighter and less curly. Yeah. - All right. - That was, and then I went back for a while and then I went back to wearing a bun every day to school. I went back to that and it took another year or two before I finally was like, - Okay, let's just start-- - Let it out, yeah. - Trying to figure this out, yeah. - Yeah, that's so frustrating to me. Something else I try to like encourage is to like love your hair at whatever stage it's at. So like if it's brushed out and curly, I'm like, I call that island girl hair, like frizzy. - Island girl hair, yeah. Yeah, like it's brushed down frizzy frizzy. Sorry, not curly frizzy like oh, that's island girl hair like Charlie XCX I was just talking about her yesterday - when we recorded but she's doing a lot I feel like for the curly community just in that like she doesn't put product in it It's just like she just wears yeah, she wears it and it's like big You know and she does yeah product in it and like she's Charlie XCX She's so cool, and she's not putting product in her hair, and it's just like big and she's doing whatever she wants. She's brat She's just so cool. Yeah, she's just so cool. She's so cool. That's why I'm talking about her again. She's so cool. She's just so cool Yeah, island girl hair, but it's just Yeah curly hair, 

It's just like, I, again, going back to just what I briefly touched on, like, how you don't know what to do for it. Like, in your experience, working with all the hair professionals, like, it takes a while to find someone that knows what to do for curly hair. - Yeah. - Do you think there is, well, I mean, you would know, is there just a less of an education and curly hair when you're going through cause there is okay. - Yeah. - Even though - - Sorry, I'm gonna say yeah, for anyone who's listening and not watching, yeah. - Yeah, so for even though 65 % of people have curly hair, there is less of an education about it. - Yeah, totally. I mean, for starters in like cosmetology school, I don't know, the pages in the book or the chapter, I don't remember if it was even a chapter and curly hair is like, you know, just a few pages. - It's just a few pages? - Yeah, and I got lucky with my cosmetology school. The teachers knew I wanted to go into curly hair and they're like, yeah, bring in curly hair models, right? Because when I got to the point in school where I could take walk -ins for the school salon, anyone with curly hair, they were coming in for like a blowout or a roller set, you know, but basically some type of like smoothening service. So I had to like really work hard to learn on my own. And then just from my own experience, so since treating my hair like it's got a bend and not straight, even my own experience getting my hair cut. So I have, even now I still have to fight their urge to think my hair isn't curly enough for a curl specialist. I should just, I'm just gonna let whatever friend cut my hair because whatever, right? And every time I do that, I'm like, uh, they blew it out and it looked really good and now it doesn't look good. It doesn't dry even. It's not the same. It's not what I need. Curls. Curls. I know. Yeah. But my hair falls flat. I don't know. Whatever. Okay. You have curly hair. Thank you. But thank you. You have curly hair. It is - To be, would you say? To see? To see? - I don't know. - I don't know. - Whatever. So like, you know, that type was invented by like, I don't know if he's still, probably not, but Oprah's hairstylist like in the 80s. - Oh, so-- - I don't remember his name. - Is that not legit? Do you not subscribe to that? - Okay, so I subscribe to it when it comes for like entry level - Entry level curl talk. - Yes, yes. - But no, I don't subscribe to it because when you get into the number fours. - Yes. - Okay. Some charts show like really tight zigzags, but most of them don't. And a lot of people think that type four is just like really tight coils, right? - Okay. - But when you think of tight, tighter curl patterns. Some of the tightest curl patterns don't form a curl. It's almost like a wave. Like a, yeah, just like a wave, like a little zigzag, but like really, really tight, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I would still say that's whatever part of, if you're calling it wavy, then that's technically a two. - Two E, or something like a two E, like I don't know. Or if you want to call it, like if you're thinking of tight textures as number four, I don't even know what to call, maybe I would call that four A, you know, like if I were to expand the system, you know, I don't know. And then also most people don't have one type on their head. - Yeah, no, all our curls look different. Each one's different. - Like I have my client After this, she's got like six different curls just on the bottom inch of her like nape, you know? Yes. So it, like, I don't know, you know. Okay, so you don't subscribe to that. And you would say that that is, that is just part of the whole blanket of lack of education about curly hair. And marketing. And marketing. Yeah, and marketing. So basically Oprah's hairstylist, He did that because he created his own line of products. Again, I don't remember the name. - Yes. - But he did that so he can say like, yeah, wavy girls use this. Like, if you're like, oh, if you, if you have two ABC, use these products. If you, it was a way for him to create so many products. - And sell them. - Yeah. - And sell them. And like while we're on the, just the atomic of products. So like in like in my years of struggling to find a hair routine that worked for me, struggling to find a hair cutter person that worked for hairstylist that worked for me, just struggling to find things. One of the things that I ran into, which I think you're amazing for not doing this in the first person I've ever met that

doesn't do this, is you go to a salon and they have like a deal with Innersence, or they have a deal with OuiDad, or they have a deal with DevaCurl. So then they are just telling you about those products and that routine, but the reality is not every line of products works for every type of hair. And you actually use different products. Like every time I've gone to you, I've gotten an entirely new set of products. I've decided that this one you gave me is my favorite. - What did I give you? - The most recent. I think it's Curl Keeper. - I love Curl Keeper. - That's what I'm-- - Oh my God. - I've decided it's my favorite. - It's my obsession right now. - I've decided that Curl Keeper is my favorite. - It's my, it is just so dang versatile. - It's so, it's amazing. And you're right, the refresh is incredible. - It's because it's truly water -based. Like there's so many of these products that say they're water -based, but there's still like oil in it. - Yes. - That are, and it's like, you try to spray it the next day and it's like, why aren't you doing what I wanted to do? You know, like, yeah. - Yes, so, and then in addition to the products, so many, I remember you debunked so many styling myths about me, you changed the entire way I diffuse my hair because I was like, oh, I'm just supposed to do this. And then you were like, oh, and you don't try this. And I was like, I never know why they, because they told you to diffuse - Yeah. - Like this. And then like, they just tell you the wrong way. They tell you no product. - Yeah. - Up here, like only to put product on the end. Like, I don't know why. - Which is so crazy because if you walk outside for two seconds and you sweat, like, this is-- - Yeah. - That's gonna frizz. - That's gonna be, so why do you think there is such a narrative of misinformation in the salons where they say they're curly hair specialists? Why are they telling you the wrong way to do and style your hair? And why are they telling you to use products that don't necessarily work with you? - I mean, I guess it depends on like school of thought with products. So let's say someone is very much like, we love creams. Okay, for your curls, like love creams. I understand why you don't want to put that too close to your scalp because like you're gonna have an oily scalp, right? So like I get that, right? So, but I don't, I'm a gel girly. - Yeah, I'm a gel girly. - So I'm like, yeah, put that up there. Get that in there. And then why do they, like, it's just, I just feel like everything's marketing. - It comes down to marketing. - And then I feel like things are worse now with social media. So I stopped following curly hair influencers, okay? And I don't mean hairstylist who might also be influencers. I'm just talking about like, for a long time, I was just following influencers. They're not even a hairstylist. And what I realized was that my feed was starting to look the same. I'm like, "Oh, that person just did that technique too." And I'm like, "Oh, maybe this is a trend." I was thinking like, "The trend is this new technique." And then I got curious and I went on these, all of these influencers, like Instagram pages and saw that they're all following each other. And

I'm like, "Oh, it's not a trend. You're just following each other and you are just thinking that person knows what they're doing, but they're all doing that for each other." - But they're all, yeah. - So the misinformation, like - - It just cycles. - Right, because they're not actually looking at curl experts for what to do, you know, they're just trying to get their own engagement up. And they might think like, oh, this other influencer, I follow like, wow, there's a lot of views on that

video. I'm going to make the same thing. Yeah. Okay. 

And you were talking earlier about how you, you let a woman talk for an hour. Yeah. About her curly hair trauma. And something that you do is you spend so much time with your clients. And you were talking about how you don't like when it's just like you're just scheduled in for this time slot and the consoles can only be this long. A lot of stylists try to rush you or not only do they try to rush you, they charge you a ton more for the amount of time it takes. Like curly hair, my haircuts are notoriously, if I would go to a salon that cuts all types of hair, my cut was way more expensive. Yeah. And I remember there was like Deva Curl in New York City. I, yeah, I won't name drop them. I don't care because their products suck and are terrible. But they would like basically decide the price of your haircut by how long it took. I mean, okay, so I'm not, I'm not super mad at that. Okay. I think there's a lot of different ways to be inclusive. One way to be inclusive is to say everyone's haircut no matter what type of hair they have is $100, right? It doesn't matter what type of hair, it doesn't matter how long it takes, it's $100, right? That's one way to be inclusive. Another way to be inclusive is to have hourly pricing, right? Because it's You know, I I get it if you have like my mom for example She does not have like her hair is not dense and it's like right here and like if my haircut is a hundred dollars, you know, let's say and I can take her hair and go like this and it takes me five minutes Like that's a really expensive five minutes. You know what I mean? Yeah, like I I don't feel good about that either. I've tried it a lot of different ways and I haven't found a perfect way. - Okay. - Right now, it's kind, like I estimate it hourly and if I go over and if my estimation was incorrect, like that's on me. That's how I look at it. - All right. - But yeah, you know, if someone with straight hair, like if you go on my page or on my booking site, so I actually don't have it. It's not really by like, here's the curly menu and here's the wet men, or sorry, the curly menu and the straight menu. I have it as like the dry cut and the wet cut. - Okay. - Typically wet cuts are faster, typically. - Wet cuts are straight hair, yeah. - Yes. - Yes. - So I have it that way. So I'm not singling out like, Oh, if you have curly hair, you're going to have to pay more. Okay. It's like, Oh, if you want a dry cut, this is the price for the dry cut. Okay, I try to do it. You know, I don't know. I'm still shopping it. You're still workshopping it. You're still figuring it out. Yeah, you know, it's like, no matter how I changed the wording, I've noticed that it's probably the girlies with hair like mine who are not sure. - Sure what to do. - Yeah. - Okay. - Like they're like, I'm not curly, but I'm not straight. - Okay. - And I'm like, you are curly. - Yes. - But like. - Okay. - Yeah. - And just this natural thing you have of like giving people the time to talk about it and figuring it out, giving people the time don't load their trauma. One, thank you, 'cause like everyone deserves that. But like, that's not the norm. Like what, like that's like weirdly not the norm. And also like a lot of times the assistants doing your hair and the stylist is like-- - I hate that. - Off doing whatever, which I hate. - I hate that, I hate that. - Which I hate, but like, would you choose a, like making the decision to give people, the time and the space. Yeah. That's just being a kind human. But how did you, how do you put that into your business that you're like, I'm going to put aside this amount of time? Okay. So I know that that's like, it could potentially be costly to me. Yes. Right. So let's say I booked your haircut, you know, someone's haircut and it's like two hours long. Yes. And let's say I do have someone right after that. Yeah. Okay. If I'm not able to like, let's, I mean, I don't want to push the next person, you know, forward, then I'm like, I don't know, I just try to talk about it up front, like, hey, you know, you have more hair than I expected, or this is a bigger project. You know, I can do what I can do today. Right? Maybe you're not going to leave with 100 % dry hair. if you would rather come back, you know, another time and have like a full experience. - Yeah, the full experience, it'll be a little bit more because whatever reason, right? It's a more transformational cut, something, you know, up to you, right? But typically for the first, I don't have something that says first time haircut. I offer express haircuts for returning clients. - Okay. - So basically I build in that extra time for the first appointment and that extra time is for a longer consultation. It's so we can have a more hands -on education session. - Yeah, but you don't usually get when you have curly hair. - Yeah, and then for, you know. You go to the diva curl salon and they treat you like everyone else. Yeah crazy. Yeah, and then you know when it comes to Discussing like okay. Here's our maintenance plan. You know if I think next time they need More than an express. I'll say like hey, I know the express You know the other one says returning clients can book this one and it costs less and it's less time But we do need that time for yours. Okay, and then also it's like, hey, we don't, you know, I'm glad we had all this time today. Okay. We don't need all that time in the future. So if you want to cut, you know, or for some people with like hair like mine, I'd so much prefer to book the curly dry cut. And if we don't, if I don't need all the time from the beginning, I'll say like, hey, I'm not going to charge you for it. I'm just going to charge you for, you know, the lesser one. 

Okay. I definitely wanted to talk a little bit about the pink tax, the brown tax, the black tax that's associated with curly hair because I'm not a person of color, but I owe all the knowledge that I have about how to take care of my hair to women of color. Like, I 100 % - I love that you said that. - No, I 100 % like they bore the cross. Women of color bore the cross for the white girls with curly hair. But Mediterranean white, but white. So I, the pink tax, the black tax, the brown tax, it's a problem in society. But just to the people who have no idea, cuz like my mom, for example, doesn't really have an idea. She kind of does see me go through it. But most people, when I tell them the prices that my hair cut services have cost in the past and past. And I also tell some of my guy friends especially, 'cause guys have no idea obviously, about like how much my hair services in the past have cost. Like I've had highlights in the past that cost $500. - Yeah. - Like I giving them $500. That's obviously not the price you're paying if you have straight hair. Haircuts sometimes for me costs $250, like, you know, where you'd go to a salon and it costs $80 if you have straight hair. So just can you speak a little bit just about the pink tax, the brown tax, the black tax, that you as a stylist, as a colorist, that you have seen to just like open people's eyes that have no idea that curly -haired woman are dealing with this on the daily, that my hair is expensive. - Yeah, this is so frustrating to me. I'm like getting hot, I'm like-- - You're like, you're breathing. - I'm like, ugh, yeah. It's like hair that's, like as discussed, hair that takes more time, I understand that. Straight hair that takes more time, I'm gonna charge more for that too, right? Because it's just about time. But I've, I've worked at a salon where they had stylist who knew curly hair and for the most part it was like probably just like straight hair coming in, but they're stylists who knew curly hair. And they would, like for a one hour haircut, okay, for whatever that means, maybe I could fit in the blow -dry, maybe I can't. Maybe I could fit in the diffuse, maybe I can't, right? For a one -hour haircut, they were already charging more for the curly hair. And I'm just like, what? - Yeah. - Yes. - That's a brown and black tax. And then there's the, at the same salon, okay? They had cut men's hair for like $45, okay, and let's say they would schedule like 45 minutes for this men's cut. Okay. Yes I should some men's you know, it's really god. Yeah, okay 45 minutes. All right and a woman's cut is An hour long and the minimum price was 125 And it's like if you do the math like that's not the same dollar per minute so like huh yeah yeah that's the pink tax you know like and that's crazy to me so that's why like I kind of like somewhat of an hourly like that you know because it's fair yeah it's fair like you know it's not fair like I've had like men come to me and say like oh how much for a men's cut and I just say I don't gender my haircuts but hourly yeah well I say a curly haircut above the ears that's how I phrase it okay yeah curly hair cut about because a woman can anyone can have yes yeah a curly haircut above the ears is you know this as long as it's not like a transformational cut if

we're doing a maintenance cut it's like whatever it is And they get upset. They're like, but it's just like, it's just short. It's just like a men's cut. And I'm like, okay, well. - Curly haircut above the ears. - Yeah, curly hair. - Yeah, curly. - Yes. - Like also there's a reason why you were searching for a curly hair stylist, right? And there's a reason why that $45 haircut hasn't been satisfying you. - Yes. You know, it's like you're gonna like come on. Yes, exactly. You know, you need more. Yes. So Yes, is what it is. Yes a hundred. Yeah, just real quick to just like make it a little more Just to add some like personal. 

Yeah, like this whole Episode you took going back to the first time you saw my hair you took the time to repair it. And I had seen all these people for months, who had no idea what to do with my hair. How many clients would you say come in in similar situations where their hair just it's cut it's been cut wrong for so long and they need like how often would you say the cuts you're giving our corrective with new clients. It seems like any new client who's never had a curly

haircut, it's corrective. It's corrective, even if the new client has. Right. A lot of times, like just I can't give like a number to how many clients I see. But I'd say. Unless their hair is like, they've just grown it long and they don't have any layers. So if we factor that in, like, I don't know, 90 percent of new clients who've never had a curly haircut, yes, it's corrective. Yes. And even sometimes when they've had her haircuts, it's just yeah, it's just as bad. But yeah, but just to like

make sure the people out there hear that. If you have curly hair, and you go, it's not easy to find someone like Val, is there another one in LA? Probably. I don't know who they are. It took me seven years to find Val. But if you haven't found Val, which is most people, 90 % of people, their hair has been cut wrong. Their hair has been cut incorrectly. I just want to like hammer in that statistic. You know, I think that the reason why someone like you who's had a curly haircut before might, you know, it might not be right. I think that it's that like longer consultation and like the listening that I offer. Well, we don't get that. Well, I mean, for the most part, you don't get that, especially at salons. Like you have your own studio. You're your own thing. But salons, - You don't get that. - Yeah, 'cause I think that like, you know, other curly hair stylists, like they know what they're doing, right? But if we're not spending enough time listening and asking the right questions, we might miss that, oh, actually that curl, like right back there wants to shoot forward. And then when you cut it like an inch, you know, or like a smidge too short, it'll curl forward and then it looks like I have a lopside, you know what I mean? - Yeah. - And-- - So instead we just go through years of like having hair that's like incorrect or not knowing how to take care of it and it's being told it's too difficult or it's like problematic or whatever. - Or they're not, so I ask a lot about lifestyle. I ask a lot about how much time do you have or do you want to spend on your hair? Because I think a lot of curly stylist as well, they're like, I'm gonna show you everything I got. I'm gonna show you what your hair can do. And that's a beautiful thing, right? But I think if you're not asking and you're not taking into consideration, like does this person actually have the time to be doing this, they might of a haircut that is only really gonna look like that if they spend 45 minutes on their hair. So that's something I take into consideration a lot. - Yeah, and we don't, we aren't given that. And it's just, but I'm really happy that like, though this episode is a little, you know, not aligned with my typical episodes. Granted, my episodes lately, it's been like, what are you even talking about? Actually, no, my episodes are still, they're all within theme, but I really wanted to give this conversation a space for the curly hair

community, even though it doesn't really have that much to do with my story, just because I think, fixing this, I think that, you know, - There is a trauma, yeah. - I, okay, maybe you don't feel that. - Okay. - Okay, but how much more confident would you have felt if you found someone earlier? - Oh, so much better. I feel so much better with the hair I have currently. Like, I feel really cool. - Yeah. - Like, I feel really cool. - You look cool. - Thank you. - But like, you know what I mean? I think a lot of times we don't realize what, I mean, well, that's the thing. We normalize the trauma. - We normalize it, yeah. - So like, myou know, you're saying it, it doesn't have much to do with your story, but it does, you were normalizing, like not having, I don't know, just not feeling your best self. - Not feeling my best self, yeah. - Or being self -conscious about like, oh my God, is it frizzy right now? Is it flat? Is it, you know what I mean? - Yes, so yeah. - Does it look, you know? And like we have those thoughts all the time. You know, are they going to think it's professional? - Yes. Where it's like, now I'm normalizing and like. - Yeah. - I love the bounce. Like it's just so fun. I love how free it feels. Like it's just so cool. And like, yeah, I didn't, it took me 27 years to get out of 26. I saw you for the first time when I was 26. - Yeah. - But yeah. I love seeing, you know, guests like you who come in and they're like, I don't want any frizz. I want it like so smooth. And then now it's almost been, almost a year, happy anniversary almost. And it's like, let's go big. - No, yeah, because I, when I first started seeing you was like, no frizz, I don't want like anything like I want to. And now I'm like, I actually like a little, like I like it a little freer about, it's virus summer. I love that you didn't call it frizz, freer, we like the movement. Yeah, freer, it's just freer. Let me look like island girl hair. Island girl hair. Island girl hair.

So, just every episode, I usually give a rec. Well, I usually do my spiritual moment of the week, like personally. And I also give a rec, like a content recommendation that supports spiritual growth in some way. And when I have a guest on, the guests get the wreck. So you have a book you wanna share. - I do, let me grab it real quickly. The answer to how is yes. - The answer to how is yes. - Yeah, by Peter Block. - Okay. - I read this book 12 years ago. I could probably use a refresh. And is it okay if I do like read a little? - Yeah, yeah, Go for it. Do what matters. Modern culture's worship of how to pragmatism has turned us into instruments of efficiency and commerce. But we're doing more and more about things that mean less and less. We constantly ask how, which is usually a way of avoiding questions on purpose. Instead of acting on what matters, we wait for bosses to change, seek the latest fad, go to a workshop, or back to school. instead of being led by our hearts into uncharted territory, we keep our hands down and stick to the rules. But we're gaining the world and losing our souls. So basically this book helped me go into, like it kind of like stopped that fear of like, but there's no women in wine industry, you know? - Okay. - And it is very like, I don't know how I'm gonna do it, but I'm gonna do it. I'm not gonna wait on the industry to welcome me, I'm just gonna do it. And even in switching careers, I

initially fell into the old mindset of like, oh, but I have student loans, I'm gonna switch careers. I'm going back to school with a bunch of 18 year olds and I'm in my damn 30s. And it was just like, okay, I'm not going to wait for, you know, the industry to welcome me. I'm just going to go do it myself. Go do it myself. Yeah. I love it when people have that mentality. I'm trying to have that mentality more, like, to stop. I think you embody it. You think I do? Yeah. Okay, because I'm trying to. Yeah. I think I'm really trying to. Yeah, own it. Okay. All right. I embody that. I embody that. You embody that. Yeah. I'm there. - Thank you so, well, I really like that because I think people need to get better at like stop asking permission, like shake things up yourself. Like I think we all, all my New York accent just came out so badly. I think we all need to get better at doing that. And like, I'm happy that me trying to do that is translating because I am crying to do that. - Oh my God, are you kidding me? Okay, I know where you have to wrap up, but like, you're doing it. - We don't have to. - You're doing, no, but are you kidding me? - I guess, I guess a little bit. I mean, I am kind of just doing this and it makes no sense. - I don't. - It doesn't make no sense, but it's like no one gave me a how to do it. I was just like, I'm gonna do it. - Yeah, you just start doing it. It's like, how am I going to do this? Like the answer is, it's really just like, yes, I'm going to do this, you know? - Yes, I'm going to do this. - The answer to how is yes. - And yes, all right. I love that, yeah. 

- Okay, well, I haven't done my spiritual moment of the week because I have this problem yesterday. I've had a week that is so like, I don't, I don't know. It's just, it's just been like, my past couple of weeks have either been really stable or it's been what this past week for me has been where it's just been like a lot. And not necessarily a lot of good, but just like a lot. Yeah. And that's definitely kind of hard because you're always trying to like, it's definitely kind of hard because you're always trying to like, see like how can I, I wanna like show that these teachings are real. Like I wanna like, you know, you always wanna give likes, you wanna put your money where your mouth is, you wanna back up that like, this is the thing that happened. But I'm realizing more and more and I realized that this yesterday when I recorded, And again, today I'll say it, that it's just what these past few weeks have been to me is just what spiritual living really is, where it's not like there's been a major event in my life that is happening, but I've just been like either looking forward to the future. I was talking about the good part of it yesterday, which was like looking forward to the future, like really excited about where things are and like the stability and just like being grateful for the things in my life that matter and having the things in my life that matter. But today I wanna focus on the sort of cluster fuck that's been in the past four days for me. And again, it's not like anyone's hurt me. It's not like anything like that. It's just been like a lot of things coming up with like I was supposed to go on a retreat, the retreat got canceled. I unexpectedly found out I might have to endure a little bit of an expense. I just had people not necessarily, like just doing the normal bullshit that people in their 20s do of just like, people of all ages do. Why am I saying in their 20s? People of all ages do of just like pestering you about things that like, I've just had a lot. Like I've had a lot with my career. I have so much work going on right now. And I think the spiritual moment I've had is I just truly have been rolling with it. And like things that would normally, I think make me really upset or really overwhelm me in the past. I'm just kind of like taking and I'm like, okay, we're going to find a creative solution. Like it's fine. And like with my retreat getting canceled, it's something that would normally make you so upset but I was just truly like all right like it was canceled okay we'll find something better to do whatever and I think that is what my spiritual mama is today that I want to share of the week that like with all the chaos that I've been having just in terms of life being like hectic I'm just like taking it and there's no got there's No dramatic displays of emotions that are negative, or it's just like, okay, we're all in it, that one, we're taking it. And I think that's important. - Well, I mean, you know, sometimes, like this is the spiritual moment, but maybe you're just not able to see it until like tomorrow, you know, until it's behind you and say like, oh, you know what? - I learned this from that. - Yeah, I didn't just go through it, I grew through through it, you know, not the saying don't go through it, grow through it, grow through it. I like that, yeah. And, you know, not quitting, not giving up. Yeah, not giving up is the spiritual moment, you know. Yeah, not giving up is the spiritual moment. Yeah. I like that. 

Okay, we're ending on a great note. Thank you for helping me with that. And before we leave, and before I say goodbye, You’re @ValCutColor, I'm gonna paste all your links in the show notes, but would you like to say to the audience any place they could find you? I know your

salon is right here in West Hollywood. It is, I walked here today. Oh my God, you walked here today. I walked here, I know, that's sunny and nice. Yes, it was terrible weather this morning, but it's beautiful. Yeah, it's great. Yes. Yeah, so you can find me at valcutcolorla .com or Instagram,

@ValCutColor and yeah, I'm here in West Hollywood. I won't say the address just in case, I don't know, you never know. Things change. But yeah, I'm here in West Hollywood, Crescent Heights and Sunset right now. Yeah. Thank you so much for coming today. I am happy that we have this conversation And this has been Gabriella rebranded, "Win most, lose some." Finding Val was a win after having seven years of losses. As it pertains to curly hair. Well, no, seven years, it was eight years of losses of curly hair in LA, but seven different stylists. - That pains me. - I know, it's sad, right? - Yeah, that pains me. - It's really sad. Yeah, that's why we need That's why this episode is important. Seven different ones before I

found one. Yeah. Oh my God. Curly hair movement. All right.