The Power of Observation

Interdisciplinary artist and designer Jose Cotto explores the intersections of creativity, design, and parenthood, discussing how we can break generational cycles through design and the significance of noticing in our environments. 

Cotto offers valuable insights for new parents and highlights the role of community support in navigating the challenges of raising children.

About Jose Cotto
Jose Cotto is an interdisciplinary artist and designer, exploring relationships between people, place, and time. Often integrating poetry, fabrication, architectural design, mark-making, and lens-based media, his work has been featured by several galleries and museums. He has a Masters of Architecture from Tulane University and BFA in Design + Architecture from the University of Massachusetts. Cotto is a Salzburg Global Seminar Cultural Innovators Fellow and was an Artist In Residence at the Joan Mitchell Center and A Studio in the Woods.

josecotto.com
Instagram @jccotto
Book: The Birth Partner by Penny Simkin
Substack: The Art of Noticing

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Transcript

Kaila Sachse (00:00)
Welcome to the Bringing Up Business podcast, where we talk about business and parenting. I am your host, Kaila Sachse, toddler mom and owner of a marketing and creative agency called Yumari Digital. Now, dear listeners, before I introduce our guest, I have a question for you. Have you ever come across somebody who is so ridiculously talented and creative that any medium they tend to experiment with turns to gold?

whether it's pen to paper, photography, digital art, video, whatever, that person creates beauty and just has that it factor. If you haven't had a chance to meet somebody like that, then today is your lucky day. Today's guest is Jose Cotto, an interdisciplinary artist and designer from Great Brook Valley.

He describes his creative practice as an exploration of relationships between people, place, and time, often integrating poetry, fabrication, architectural design, mark making, and lens-based media. Cotto's work has been featured by Paper Monuments, Prospect New Orleans, A.S.H.E., Newcomb Art Museum, Antenna Gallery, and

Contemporary Arts Center. He earned a Master's of Architecture from Tulane University in 2014 and a BFA in Design and Architecture from the University of Massachusetts Amherst in 2011. Coto is a Salzburg Global Seminar Cultural Innovators Fellow and was an artist in residence at the Joan Mitchell Center in 2022.

and A Studio in the Woods in 2022 and again in 2024. Prior to joining Utile as director of community engagement and design justice, he was part of the team at the Small Center for Collaborative Design in Tulane University School of Architecture.

Additionally, because there's more, I'm telling you Jose is amazing, he supported the center's design and builds envisioning projects, contributed to documentation and communication efforts, and led a yearly seminar focused on public space, public interest design, and interdisciplinary practices.

Jose, I'm honored to get to hang out with you today and welcome to the show.

Jose Cotto (he/they) (02:29)
Thank so much for having me. Excited to dive in and see where the conversation goes today.

Kaila Sachse (02:35)
Same, same, I know you are going to have so much good stuff to share, especially in this particular time that we're at. But first, let's talk about your journey into design and parenthood. So which came first for you?

Jose Cotto (he/they) (02:47)
I feel like I've been a designer all my life. I can think back to when I was a young kid growing up in Grapev Valley and building clubhouses in the woods with friends with scavenged materials that we would find around the neighborhood and around nearby factories, et cetera.

I've always been inspired by artists and art, ⁓ have had family members who have been artists, you know, their entire lives. so art for me was always sort of a way for me to kind of like tune into sort of my day-to-day realities growing up in a housing project, you know, in the 90s when, you know, in a sort of particular moment, like pre-digital world where things were a little chaotic.

and also a way to kind of escape from those realities as well. So art and design have always sort of been these like tools, if you will, for me to kind of like radically accept and engage with sort of reality, but also find moments of respite and moments of pause to reflect and to dream, right? And to sort of imagine alternative possibilities.

And yeah, parenthood is a much newer game to me. I've had younger siblings and cousins and folks that I've grown up around and kind of have quote unquote helped raised, ⁓ but it's not the same until it's your own child that you are worried about 24 /7 And so yeah, I have a two and a half year old now, which keeps me and my partner busy.

Kaila Sachse (03:54)
you

Jose Cotto (he/they) (04:14)
and energize and all of the things. So yeah.

Kaila Sachse (04:17)
I felt that. My kid is two years and three months. And it's a lot. It's a lot. So he's only three months younger than your kid. Yeah, it's a lot. And it's always so funny to me when someone compares having a kid to having a dog or having a niece or nephew and it's like...

In some ways I get it, I do get it. I play fetch with my toddler, I'm not gonna lie, and we have a great time. But there's a major difference. mean, dogs are a lot more independent, cats are a lot more independent, if you wanna compare other pets as well. And there is something about a kid that's, it's a 24-7 job being a parent.

Jose Cotto (he/they) (04:52)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, and it's it's legacy, right? And it's like, it's like future, right? And it's like both past and present and future, which, you know, maybe I've never been a pet person. like, maybe maybe folks, folks feel that way about their pets. But like, I can't imagine having a dog and sort of being like weighed down by like the gravity of like, where will they be in 20 years, right? Like those conversations are a little bit easier to kind of navigate and sort of like ground yourself, right? Like there's a certain like expectation. ⁓

Kaila Sachse (05:28)
Yeah.

Jose Cotto (he/they) (05:30)
and certain timelines that we're sort of familiar with. And, you know, all of that sort of goes out the window when you're a parent, right? And you're, you you're not, thinking about your kids, you're thinking about your grandkids, right? Like you start to think about time in a different kind of way, which has a sort of has a sort of weightiness to it that is both grounding.

Kaila Sachse (05:45)
Yeah.

Jose Cotto (he/they) (05:49)
and paralyzing and also freeing in some ways, right? It's all of the things. I always say like parenting is, parenting is everything all the time. ⁓ You know, it's like there's always something. And even in the moments where it's calm, like there's still, you know, there's still these sort of like layers of just feeling and thinking and reflecting that you would have never imagined of into.

Kaila Sachse (05:58)
Hmm.

Jose Cotto (he/they) (06:14)
into that initial moment where you actually meet your child. It's like, that's the moment where the floodgates open and you're made aware of all of these things that you've been carrying your whole life and didn't have a reason to tap into. And then this little human comes along and gives you all the reasons and more to tune into that aspect of your being. So yeah, it's a lot.

Kaila Sachse (06:30)
Ooh.

Gosh.

Jose Cotto (he/they) (06:40)
It's a lot.

It's worthwhile, but it's a lot.

Kaila Sachse (06:43)
is so well put. I remember right after giving birth they set him on my chest and out of nowhere I couldn't have predicted this. I just started sobbing and I felt like it was a release of all of the emotion I had been carrying and all of the weightiness as you put it of thinking about the future and

Jose Cotto (he/they) (07:03)
Mm-hmm.

Kaila Sachse (07:08)
preparing for this child and thinking about my kid's future five, 10, 20 years from now, all of it came flooding out all at once. And I just remember that moment being so overtaken by the weight of parenthood because it's very, it's visceral. It's a real weight because yeah, I mean, you put it so well. When they're awake, it's a lot. And even when they're asleep, it's still a lot because now you're thinking about them.

Jose Cotto (he/they) (07:17)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah, and there's no preparation, right? I mean, like I said, had grew up around younger siblings, younger cousins. I've been around young kids most of my life. And so I was familiar with sort of like behaviors and kind of trends and attitude and milestones and these sorts of things, but it doesn't resonate the same.

as it does when it's your child. And no amount of books or podcasts or conversations with friends who are going through it can really prepare you for that moment when you realize, okay, this is nobody else's project, if you will, but my own and my partner. And yes, we have a support team. Yes, we have community. We have all of these things. And at the end of the day,

we're still responsible for this life and responsible for nourishing it and cultivating it and allowing it to become what it wants to and needs to become, which is also like a thing that you can't really prepare for, right? It's like, we have this idea that like we can be controlling of things. And it's like, you know, it's really about trying to sort of listen and

Kaila Sachse (08:37)
Mm-hmm.

Jose Cotto (he/they) (08:53)
engage in a dialogue, even straight out the womb, right over on like, who are you and who are you wanting to become and how do I help you get there? And so, and that's a thing that, it's funny, I had a really close group of friends, maybe about 10 or so couples, for about 12 or so years now. And there was like a five year,

Kaila Sachse (09:02)
Yeah.

Jose Cotto (he/they) (09:14)
period of time where at least one of the couples was like expecting a child. ⁓ It's like nonstop there was at least someone who was ⁓ expecting. And so, you know, it's like I've been around it for the last seven years in quite an intense and like, know, personal way. But again, it's like there's no preparation. until you're in it.

Kaila Sachse (09:20)
Mm-hmm

Jose Cotto (he/they) (09:37)
And you're sort of having to trust, just trust instinct and trust the sort of humanity of it all. Right. Like all of us are wired to do this. And how do we how do we tune out sort of the noise, if you will, or the expectations or the kind of external voices and just like truly listen to like our intuition as humans.

and beings who have done this practice, if you will, for millennia. And so it's kind of ⁓ a beautiful thing to be able to unearth inside of us that we don't even always realize is there. ⁓

Kaila Sachse (10:20)
Yeah,

yeah, yeah. It's such an interesting experience because at least for me, some parts were incredibly natural and they came instinctually. Other parts were completely unnatural and just they felt like they were coming out of left field. I had no idea what to expect. Did you notice with your friends, so this was before you had your child, did you notice with your friends?

Were they going through any sort of changes or maybe crises that caught you off guard as a non-parent? Were you like, whoa, what are these people going through?

Jose Cotto (he/they) (11:02)
⁓ nothing that's like jumping out at me. And I think part of that is honestly like I have always just been a believer in grace, you know, and like, you know, just acknowledging that like everybody's on their time, right. And so there's like a certain, level of judgment that I'm always trying to avoid, you know.

And so, you for me, was always more of just like, wow, like y'all are doing it, right? Like y'all are, you know, seeing friends who were artists just sort of figure it out, right? And like, readjust their creative schedules and timing in ways that, you know, where it's like, you're creating at two in the morning now, you know, it's like, that's your two to five is like your creative, your creative window, but you make it work, right? And.

So just kind of seeing the ways in which people were able to respond and adapt. I think that adaptability is like, that's like the parenting superpower, if anything. It's like the ability to be completely dialed in to move in one direction and then just be like, no, you know what, we have to pivot. We have to do something else because this human being is requiring that. And

we've had friends who have had a lot of challenges, whether it's like health challenges, know, surgeries early on, a lot of those things, which are, which are tough, you know, to sort of like see folks have to have to navigate. but again, like having, having a good group of folks to be able to connect with and engage with regularly, having a strong, a strong group chat, to, to keep the spirits going and,

and just remind folks that all of us are sort of navigating, has really sort of helped my experience. And like I said, we had probably a solid like four or five years between the first child being born in our close friend group and our child being born. so, and that was just that one immediate circle, right? And so, we were able to kind of see a lot. if anything, it was more,

affirming and kind of grounding once we got to that point. But yeah, there was, I think just like people's ability to adapt is really the thing that sort of jumps out at me or kind of comes to mind, you know. And then the ability to like edit out, know, like edit things out of your life that just no longer serve the family unit in the same way.

whether that's certain habits, certain desires to like be in certain spaces or places or, transitioning from like, being in your twenties in a city like New Orleans, that's like very vibrant and outgoing and very social to just being like, "you know what, I'm totally cool with like being home all day, every day." And just like spending this time internally.

So seeing people kind of adapt and sort of just, again, just kind of change, change certain patterns or habits just out of a desire to sort of connect, has been a really like beautiful thing to kind of see and witness over the years. ⁓

Kaila Sachse (13:51)
Yeah, yeah, there's definitely a malleability that parenthood can teach a parent. I know for me, I was living in the city. I had been there for a decade. This was in LA. And I remember a very specific conversation with my hairdresser at the time. And I was like, hey, I just need to let you know I'm moving and I'm moving over an hour away.

Jose Cotto (he/they) (13:58)
Excuse me.

Kaila Sachse (14:17)
I'm going to be closer to my parents and closer to my initial village, which means that because of the distance, I'm not going to be able to come to you anymore. And it was so funny, this was before I was pregnant, before I was, obviously before I had my son. And she was like, okay.

whatever you do, if you plan on moving back to LA, don't have kids, don't have kids because you're not going to want to move back to LA. And at the time I was like, yeah, totally, for sure. I get that. And I do want to go back to the city. I want to get back to this life. But I moved, I actually really liked the slower pace and the readjustment in my life. Then we got pregnant and I...

became okay with being out in a place that isn't the city, that isn't running a hundred miles an hour at all times, which is the speed that I had been previously adjusted to. And it was interesting to me to be okay with that and to be able to just roll with this new reality and instead of bracing myself against it, accepting it.

and finding the joy in it and finding the beauty in it, which I now so deeply appreciate this new reality for myself. So yeah, that adaptability in parenthood is just so cool. As you put it, it is a superpower. I completely agree. Is there anything in parenthood that you would want to help prepare somebody who is planning?

Jose Cotto (he/they) (15:30)
Mm-hmm.

Thank

Kaila Sachse (15:52)
I know there's nothing that could 100 % be done to fully prepare somebody for parenthood, but is there any advice that you would give to a new parent?

Jose Cotto (he/they) (16:03)
Yeah, I mean, I...

I think, know, just from my own sort of experience, you know, I read the birthing partner book, you know, which is like sort of like a, I think that's the name of the title. I know it's a book that's utilized by like a lot of doulas and folks. And like that was a really just kind of grounding and like straight to the point kind of book. You know, it's like first chapter is like you're there, you know, it's like this baby is coming. What are you doing?

And so just in terms of like sort of wrapping my head around the process of how to support my partner through that process. You know, my partner was a super champion, like wanted to have all natural birth and, was able to do that, successfully with like really like no implications. So we were like super lucky on that front. She was able to have an experience that she wanted to have and.

you know, for me, speaking as the partner who wasn't carrying the child, I think one of the biggest things is just like making sure that I was prepared to sort of support my partner and kind of, you know, advocate for the things that she wanted and kind of the experience that she wanted to have. And I think having that plan kind of going in is ⁓ important.

to really think about like the details, right? Of like, how do you want this experience to be? who do you want in the room? do you want to be the person that's like, facilitating or talking to a doctor? Cause like your partner probably doesn't want to have that conversation when they're, in that level of pain, right? And so just being, being ready for that, so like on a, kind of partner personal level, like those are some things that I would.

Kaila Sachse (17:25)
No they do not.

Jose Cotto (he/they) (17:32)
would recommend, like I think that book was great. And then again, just having those conversations early and often and kind of like just running through the scenarios, just so you have some ideas. And again, it's never going to go as planned, right? Like we were in the delivery room thinking that we would have a few hours before anything would happen. And then it was like instantly the baby was coming, right. And like nobody was prepared. The nurses weren't prepared. There was no tools in the room. You know, it's like we were just getting set up, you know, like the bath, the bathtub was still being filled up, you know. And so

Kaila Sachse (17:58)
wow.

Jose Cotto (he/they) (18:01)
And so, you adapt and you pivot, but again, just having some kind of grounding there. And then, for me, a lot of it was on a personal level, like a lot of it was just sort of reflecting and, just thinking about like what I wanted to maintain for self. And like, how do I how do I make sure that, I'm I'm evolving into parenthood and not like becoming somebody else?

And so that distinction of evolution and not total transformation or embodying a totally different persona. So I think that has allowed me to move through the world with a certain level of intention and just confidence that some of the decisions that I'm making or things that I'm trying to do.

particular when it comes down to impacting the time that you have, you're able to spend with kids, it's like making sure that you have some personal alignment on that front. Obviously you want to be there, be a supportive and present parent. And also you want to make sure that you're continuing to nourish and feed the things that sustain you on an individual, personal, spiritual level.

So, for me, that was like, really thinking about my creative practice, finding moments and opportunities to do that throughout the process, right? And so that I was like in a rhythm, where it's like, all right, I have this 30 minutes, I can like exercise this muscle, and just kind of baking that into the day to day.

And then, just, giving yourself a lot of grace. Like I said, there's no amount of manuals or preparation that like can get you ready for that moment when the nurse is like, all right, you can go home now. Like you can leave the hospital and you're just standing there like, wait, you trust me to one, just, just, you trust me enough that like my car seat is installed properly.

Kaila Sachse (19:54)
Are you sure? Do you need me to take a test or? Yeah.

Jose Cotto (he/they) (19:54)
⁓ To even begin, yeah,

it's like, do you want to, like, is somebody gonna be in a car ride with us? That first car ride home afterwards was traumatizing in a lot of ways. You have this like the most precious, fragile thing that you've helped create to date ⁓ in the back of your car. ⁓

it's like you're, you're like, I'm hyper alert, right? Like you're so much more aware of how bad everyone is as a driver, right? Like everything is like magnified, because it's not, it's no longer just your, your life and, and wellbeing in the car. And so just, giving yourself some grace and just reminding yourself like, man, everybody, yes, a lot of people have, have gone through this. And all of those people are like,

Kaila Sachse (20:24)
Yes! Yeah!

Jose Cotto (he/they) (20:41)
making up a different version of how to do this every time, right? Like there is no singular approach to parenthood. it's going to be totally different. Everyone's going to have an opinion. ⁓ listen to most of them and like follow few, it's like, like receive that receive everything you have the bandwidth to receive and

Kaila Sachse (20:52)
Yeah.

Right.

Jose Cotto (he/they) (21:04)
apply the things that you feel really matter or you align with, but everyone's going to have suggestions and thoughts and opinions. then you quickly realize that it's okay to do things totally different. It's okay to not be on the timeline that's in the book. It's okay to just let life kind of take its course and sort of be what it

Kaila Sachse (21:09)
Yeah.

Jose Cotto (he/they) (21:30)
what it needs to be, which is hard, because like you want to you want to come out the gate being like I'm doing everything possible and correct, whatever that might mean. And there is no there is no correct,

Kaila Sachse (21:40)
Yes. That's definitely where I got...

there isn't. And that's where I found myself getting stuck at the very beginning because I had no idea what I was doing. I wanted people to spell out exactly what needed to be done. And a part of that ⁓ was because my husband and I lost a really, really good...

close friend two weeks before our son was born. And so we were navigating that as well. And I kind of noticed how we how we divvied up our energy. My husband, my husband was was closer to that friend. And so he was he was almost solely focused on on grieving. I'm speaking for him. He might say something different. But from my perspective, it seemed like he was

Jose Cotto (he/they) (22:09)
Hmm.

Kaila Sachse (22:35)
He was solely focusing on just grieving. I hate that I use the word just there, by the way, because grief, there's no just, tiny, any minimalizing grief. Grief is a huge, huge thing. But he was focused on grieving. I was focused on figuring out what the heck parenthood was about and motherhood is about. And it felt like we were living on two separate planets. He'd be there physically in the room helping to...

Jose Cotto (he/they) (22:42)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kaila Sachse (23:02)
feed me right after postpartum and making sure that I was nourished in that way, but emotionally he was just, he was in a different space. And so we were navigating the newness of parenthood, which is a lot, and grief as well, which is just all consuming. And so it was, for me, that was a really, really hard time. ⁓ know, zooming out, I wish that

we had more friends checking in on us, like physically coming to our place and knocking on the door, letting themselves in and just saying, hey, what do you need? How can we help? Like, let's cook for you, let's clean, let's like, let's just sit down with you and let you cry it out, like whatever it was. What were some things that your friends did to either support you or that you wish you had been supported with in those early days?

Jose Cotto (he/they) (23:36)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I mean, we had friends, we definitely had friends that came by, right? I was just in New Orleans again this past weekend, met up with a friend who I hadn't seen in a while, and we were reflecting back on the fact that he'd like, he just brought over like a whole roasted chicken with like vegetables and stuff one night, you know, just like, so we had friends that did that quite a bit, you know, would bring us meals.

And just having other people to talk to, especially in those first two to three weeks, two to four weeks, when both of us were able to have a decent amount of paternal leave, at least in those first three months. And that first month, you're just like, it's just the three of you.

primarily in the house or if you have other kids, it's just like, it's the family unit and everyone's just trying to get to know one another and figure out each other's cycles, figure out each other's rhythms. You're sort of reaching the edges of breaking points over and over and over again and sort of questioning what bad decisions you made 10 months ago to go on this journey. ⁓

Kaila Sachse (24:56)
Yeah.

you

Jose Cotto (he/they) (25:08)
Because like I said, it's a lot, And particularly when there's a lot of complications, right? Like there can be complications. I think in our experience, our daughter was not able to nurse in the ways that we thought she would, right? And then it was like a combination of all parties, right? Which is like just navigating those conversations can be really tough and challenging, right?

⁓ especially for, the partner and the relationship that's doing that nursing, right? Like ⁓ when things don't line up or quote unquote work in the ways that we think that they should, it can be really, really challenging. And you start to doubt self and question all these things that are beyond your control. so like we were like literally feeding my daughter with a syringe for a period of time, it's just like.

Kaila Sachse (25:43)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Jose Cotto (he/they) (26:02)
just trying to get any little bit of nutrients and sustenance in her, especially in those first two weeks, when they're naturally wanting to lose a little bit of weight. And it's like their bodies are in overdrive trying to just catching them up to this new world. And so, yeah, it can be a lot. we had friends that would come by, we would just have conversations, we had friends.

Kaila Sachse (26:18)
Yeah.

Jose Cotto (he/they) (26:27)
We had a few like dedicated friends that were like, you know, very clear and like transparent with us around like, Hey, if you need to call us, it doesn't matter what time of day it is. we can be your emergency call, and, we used it, was like 1230 AM, 1 AM one night, on like Christmas Eve or something like that. and we called and they answered the phone and

just like having like a one hour conversation, just to, again, just like ground ourselves and remind ourselves of the process. And, they have a child who's almost about a year older than our daughter. And, we were able to just like, again, just like, have a reference point and a baseline and just other voices in the house, in our space to just be like, no, you got this, you know, it's like.

Kaila Sachse (27:12)
Yes.

Jose Cotto (he/they) (27:13)
You know, just keep going. Like, this is just like what happens. babies just cry. That's what they do. That's how they communicate. you'll figure that out. You'll start to like understand what the different cries mean, And so just like having that dedicated number that we could call at any point in time was like a nice sort of security blanket for us to have, right?

So yeah, allowing the people that want us to be supportive, be supportive. And also just creating some guidelines and boundaries for yourself too. Like I think everybody, oftentimes people want to, are eager to engage and support and maybe that can be overwhelming. So like we made a decision that like those first two weeks, like we just wanted to just like, just be our little unit and like really, really.

There's some like, you know, this was like COVID times, right? So like there's always like these like little nuances of like also just like being mindful of like sickness, especially before, before you have a proper, visit and checkup and all of these things. ⁓ And so we created some boundaries around that as well. And, we'll let folks like, just gave folks hours, like, hey, if you want to pop in.

Kaila Sachse (28:00)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah.

Jose Cotto (he/they) (28:20)
at any time during these hours, like just know that our door is unlocked. You're welcome to just like come in, hang out. So just, keeping those networks active and those lines of communication open were really ⁓ useful for us. And then we did a lot of stuff before the baby came with friends too, right? Like we had friends come over one day and we just like, we made pasteles, which are kind of like, you know, it's like the Puerto Rican tamale, if you will.

Kaila Sachse (28:35)
Yeah.

Jose Cotto (he/they) (28:47)
it's like we made, spent like a whole evening, like four or five hours, just like prepping stuff, like a week or two before the baby came And so it was like nice to share that time even before the baby arrived, right? With friends, just again, just to ground yourself and just be reminded of the ecosystem that your child is going to be entering into, right?

Kaila Sachse (29:07)
Yeah.

Jose Cotto (he/they) (29:10)
It's like a good motivator and assurance, to like, yeah, like, let's get this baby out here so that they can meet these people, right, that are so amazing and incredible and generous with their time and energies. And like, that's the that's the ethos and like spirit that we want our kids to move through the world with, right, to be there for friends in those moments. And so so, yeah, those are those are some of the

the things that we did and there wasn't a lot that I wish people had done. If anything, it's just like, ask what people want maybe, like just kind of offer what you can and let people decide whether they want to receive that or not. But that extra decision-making of like, what do I want to eat for dinner today? I don't know. like that extra decision is like, actually it can be a burden ⁓ to folks.

Kaila Sachse (29:49)
Right. ⁓

Right. That's fair. That's

Jose Cotto (he/they) (29:58)
And so, you know, instead of

Kaila Sachse (29:58)
totally fair. ⁓

Jose Cotto (he/they) (29:59)
saying, instead of saying like, what do want for dinner to say, hey, I'm going to pick up some pizza. Are you cool with that? And if, you know, people are in the mood for it, then, then, they'll be able to respond to that. But I think, just trying to limit the sort of decisions that people are having to make so that they can just focus on being present, for themselves and for the child was a big thing for us.

Kaila Sachse (30:05)
Yeah.

Oof, that is great. That's great advice. there are so many decisions that parents do have to make and please, please don't ask the parents what they want. Yeah, just tell them like, hey, I'm bringing over the pizza. I'm bringing over the soup or whatever it is. And yeah, do you want it or not? That's the only decision. Yes or no? Easy. Yeah, yeah.

Jose Cotto (he/they) (30:30)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah.

Kaila Sachse (31:48)
So let's switch gears a little bit. You are...

Breaking generational cycles through design. And I imagine part of the fuel for your work in doing that is thinking about the legacy that you are passing down for your daughter and for the next generation. So what does it mean to break generational cycles through design? What kind of work are you doing and how are you doing it?

Jose Cotto (he/they) (32:09)
Mm-hmm.

I think for me, you know, to kind of to start, maybe I'll start with observation, because I feel like for me, I kind of entered the design world or made a conscious

decision to sort of be curious about the design world and the built environment after sort of like having an epiphany moment in the neighborhood that I grew up in, in Great Brook Valley, where I was just walking to my aunt's house and for some reason I just like remember stopping at one point and kind of looking around and just taking inventory of what I was seeing around me and the fam, in particular, like the families that I was, that I was, that were like in my view, right? And I was like, all right.

Like my friend and his parents live here. Like they've been in this neighborhood for like 20 years. You know, it's like this family lives here. They've been in this apartment for like generations, right? And I was like doing a quick scan. was like, man, like he's a brilliant mechanic, you know, amazing entrepreneur, salesperson, incredible athletes. And it was like, what is it about this physical place that doesn't allow that kind of greatness to transcend?

what this place can offer and allow these people an opportunity to leave. Cause I, you know, it's like growing up the housing projects for me was always like the goal, you know, for some people it's like the goal is to like rep your hood and like be in your hood. Right. For me, it was like, I want to get out of here. You know, it's like this, especially once I, once I was like in high school and was able to like start to get little snippets of like life beyond. Right. It like, there's so much more world out there.

And what is it about this physical place that doesn't allow people the opportunity to explore and see and be part of that larger world? And so I started becoming a lot more critical of just noticing the built environment. What is it about the material quality in this neighborhood? This is traditional, a typical sort of public housing project built in the 40s and 50s, a lot of brick, a lot of concrete, a lot of steel.

these like materials that are really harsh and hard, a lot of hardscape, not a lot of green space, et cetera, right? And I started thinking about sort of like, what is it about, like what are the parallels between the physicality of this place and the ways in which people embody that in their own being, right? And so I started making connections with like my own behaviors and actions and this physical environment that I was in.

and how in some ways I was kind of like living up to the environment, right? ⁓ And since then, I've just been curious about how people perceive space, how people exist within space, the ways in which our built environment is subtly and sometimes not so subtly like shaping and informing our perceptions of self, which ultimately shape and inform our perceptions of the world and what's possible, right?

Kaila Sachse (34:52)
Hmm.

Yeah.

Jose Cotto (he/they) (35:15)
And so a lot of the work that I've done especially in my earlier years, and a lot of the work that I was doing at the small center prior to joining Utile like a lot of that was around engaging people in conversations about the places that they were in and trying to encourage people to just sort of like mount a different perspective, for a moment, right?

to be able to allow people to see things the way that I saw them, to encourage them to see things differently, right? This is how my photography practice gets layered in, right, like all of these things. And so I think one of my goals is just personally, professionally as an artist, et cetera, is really just to kind of raise the collective consciousness that we all have around our awareness to the built environment.

right, to be able to ask ourselves questions like, why are there trees in this neighborhood but not in my neighborhood? And like, what does that do to my psychology? What does that do to the ways that I value myself or value my community, right? I'm far more likely to, throw trash on the ground in a neighborhood that has broken sidewalks and no trees and blighted properties than I am like walking down a beautifully

Kaila Sachse (36:06)
Hmm.

Jose Cotto (he/they) (36:26)
manicured street with trees and it's like there's a different experience there. ⁓ Our built environment tells us about what we care about. Architecture is our society's way of demonstrating what we value. When we build affordable housing, we value housing. When we only build market rate housing, we value capital.

Kaila Sachse (36:36)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jose Cotto (he/they) (36:53)
And so, how do we encourage people to develop and cultivate relationships with the built environment, with the natural environment, right? like we live here. So like how are we engaging with it? a large part of my work is really just purely just around that, right? Like what can I do as an artist? How can I document neighborhoods, communities, people in ways that

can put some of these things in conversation with one another and encourage some of that questioning. a lot of this work is just driven and motivated by just observation and the power of observation, like the power, the power in noticing, right? Like notice, noticing is such an important part of our, our human existence. And we,

Kaila Sachse (37:26)
Yeah, yeah.

Jose Cotto (he/they) (37:39)
are constantly in a battle with other forces that are trying to strip away how much we notice, right? Whether it's just by keeping us occupied, by scrolling, whether it's the ads, right? It's like there's an intention for you to not pay attention to the things that really matter, which, it's possible because we're not engaged in these sort of like

Kaila Sachse (37:50)
Yeah, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Jose Cotto (he/they) (38:06)
daily conversations with our physical surroundings as much as we once used to be, right? And then, here at Utile now I think the ways in which I'm thinking about breaking generational cycles is really about how do we move beyond noticing to actually imagining, right? And what does that...

Kaila Sachse (38:23)
Hmm.

Jose Cotto (he/they) (38:29)
what do we notice that's new when we begin to imagine differently? And in my particular role, I'll use one example since we've been talking about the housing projects that I grew up in. I hope I'm not jinxing myself or jinxing our team, but just to say, we are in

Kaila Sachse (38:49)
You

Jose Cotto (he/they) (38:52)
we are in the running, if you will, to potentially lead the master planning of that housing project that I grew up in. And whether we get the project or not, it's like, that's another conversation. But I was able to sort of help develop the sort of like framing and kind of like,

concept and sort of like approach, if you will, to the site in terms of like, you know, these sorts of spaces, right, like housing that allows for these activities, housing that allows for this kind of connection, housing that allows people to sort of grow into place and age in place in different ways, right. Just some of the things that I've noticed, right. And so, for me now the questions are a little bit bigger in scale in that sense, right, where

I'm really thinking about what is required for us to actually seed and cultivate and nourish the ecosystems and environments that we know in our being and our spirit are necessary for us and the folks that we serve, for us collectively to be able to live the lives that we think are possible. And I'm always like,

Kaila Sachse (40:05)
Yeah.

Jose Cotto (he/they) (40:07)
I'm always motivated by this idea of what would happen if the entirety of the global population was in alignment. If our frequencies were all tapped in, what is possible in that world? And we'll only be able to arrive there.

Kaila Sachse (40:22)
Ugh.

Yeah.

Jose Cotto (he/they) (40:33)
if we're creating environments that are nourishing and are fulfilling. I'm trying to these sort of bigger questions of what is the intention of a project? What are we doing to allow for people to not just exist, but to be in conversation?

Kaila Sachse (40:37)
right

Jose Cotto (he/they) (40:55)
with their environment in a different way? How do we transform and change just like the relationships that people have to place by creating different relationships with place, right? And giving people the opportunity to get their hands in the dirt, right? Like, what does it mean for us to think about a housing project that like

actually allows and make space for people to literally plant things, right? And like, sow the earth, right? Like, how do we change, how do we change our approaches to design and planning, you know, in ways that are about control, which I feel like is a lot of like what our discipline, unfortunately, kind of has become, right? It's like, how do we control the way that people move through space?

Kaila Sachse (41:23)
Yeah.

Mm.

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jose Cotto (he/they) (41:42)
How

do we guide people? like, well, like, what if we didn't have control and we just like let people choose, like what joy is possible there? You know.

Kaila Sachse (41:49)
creating like a blank canvas of a space.

⁓

Jose Cotto (he/they) (41:52)
Yeah, and how do we give people, how do we transfer agency? Or just allow for agency, right? Not even transfer, just allow for it, right? ⁓

Kaila Sachse (41:57)
Yeah.

Right.

Jose Cotto (he/they) (42:06)
I'm still very much trying to understand the landscape of this profession and this discipline in this particular place and time, right? Like being in Boston in this particular moment, both socially, politically, environmentally, right? Like all of these things. I'm still trying to figure out what are the questions that Boston is trying to ask in a lot of ways before, before

I start asking some of my own questions. And that goes back to this exploration and dialogue between people, place, and time, and trying to understand which variable or which piece of that puzzle I'm learning from. And the time piece is often the hardest, because we just want to get there faster than

Kaila Sachse (42:30)
Mmm.

Jose Cotto (he/they) (42:50)
than we always know is possible, And so I'm trying to let this place just like have its time with me, if you will, and kind of guide some conversations in that sense. So yeah.

Kaila Sachse (43:04)
I'm noticing a parallel between

your approach to parenting and your approach to this design process, which is it seems like you're tapping into the other person before you make a judgment call on what is best for them. So with your daughter, you're like, "hey, who are you human? What are you about? How can I best cultivate the best for you instead of the best of what I think for you?"

Jose Cotto (he/they) (43:22)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kaila Sachse (43:31)
And with with in terms of Boston, "what is Boston requiring and asking of me instead of what I think Boston needs?" So you're doing you're doing a lot of listening before you're jumping into action. ⁓ How how can someone practice that listening or that observing, if you will? Like what what can we do to exercise that muscle?

Jose Cotto (he/they) (44:01)
Yeah, I mean, I think that sort of speaks to like my, realities of like, just inherently being born a photographer, right? Like that's just like, it was in my card somewhere. I just try to, I try to notice little things, right? Like it's, I think just building a practice of trying to notice something different every day.

Right? Like even if it's like the littlest thing, like I noticed this crack on the sidewalk, you know, you know, that leads to like, looked up and I noticed this bird that was flying by, which like made me ask questions about like, "where is this bird coming from? Where is this bird going? Why was it just one bird?" You know, it's like allowing presence to, to teach you. Right.

Kaila Sachse (44:37)
Bye.

Jose Cotto (he/they) (44:44)
and being like humble enough and curious enough to just sit in that space without having to like formulate a thought. You know, it's just like, it's purely is just like observance for the sake of gratitude of like existing, right? It's like, I get to exist in this moment where I can notice that crack on the sidewalk, right? Like I get to exist in this moment.

Kaila Sachse (45:05)
Ooh.

Jose Cotto (he/they) (45:08)
where I can see this like beautiful interaction between a grandmother and their grandchild on the train on my way to work, right? Just like these little moments that over time, you start to kind of understand sort of the deeper rhythms and feeling and sort of texture of people and places, right? And then I...

when I am in environments with people, it's been said many of times that I'm like someone who will be very quiet in the room. But when I have something to say, it's like I'm speaking because I really genuinely feel like it's something beyond just the response, right? Like, and so.

I think just practicing it on those small scales, know, and it's easy, something, even just starting with yourself, right? Like, you know, what do you notice when you look in the mirror? You know, first thing in the morning, right? Like, what do you see? And just going from there, I mean, there's a great newsletter out there in the world. There's this gentleman, I'm blanking on his name right now, who actually, I think, I can't remember where he's from originally, but I think he resides in the New Orleans area now.

Kaila Sachse (46:00)
you

Jose Cotto (he/they) (46:18)
But he has this, he has a newsletter called The Art of Noticing I think it's, I think it's what it's called. And he sends out like kind of like daily or like weekly kind of like little exercises, like, keep count of how many fire hydrants you walk by, you know, like little things like that, like that you can just sort of weave into your like daily walking and ritual. And I think that, those like little exercises as like ir relevant as they might seem again, it's just.

Kaila Sachse (46:22)
Mm.

Jose Cotto (he/they) (46:44)
it's about building the muscle memory between like what you notice and what you feel. And for me, like that's like, that's the space that I want to live in all the time when I'm a photographer, right? Like I want to be able to create a visual record, not of what I see in the moment, but what I'm feeling and experiencing. And like, what is the visual representation of that that I have access to right now in this environment?

Kaila Sachse (46:49)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Jose Cotto (he/they) (47:13)
⁓ so that I can communicate that thing, right? I think it's an important skill for all of us to have, right? Certainly as photographers or artists, but I think for everyone because it's about training your body to know where to look when you feel that thing. ⁓ yeah, so for like, I'll keep on the photography train since it seems relevant, but.

Kaila Sachse (47:29)
Hmm. Can you speak more on that?

Jose Cotto (he/they) (47:40)
sometimes there are photos that I don't take in the moment, but I feel them and I'm looking for it, right? And part of building that muscle memory is like, okay, next time I feel that thing, like, you know, say I'm photographing a wedding, right? It's like, next time I feel that thing, whatever it was, it's like, I kind of have a good sense of like where in the crowd I should look towards to be able to respond.

to communicate with that energy, if you will. And it doesn't happen all the time, right? It's like, doesn't always line up. Sometimes it's like you miss the moment from time to time. That's part of it. And being comfortable with that is a lesson that I learned early on, right? It's like, if I'm too focused on missing the moment, I might actually miss the moment that I'm supposed to get.

And so you learn from that, but it's again, it's just like muscle memory where it becomes, where you look towards becomes instinctual. And it's because you're you're responding to those vibrations, to those energies that are surrounding you you're trying to like tune your dial to that frequency, right? To pick it up. And so you kind of know, you just know where to look.

And it's like, it's hard to explain, right? Cause it's like, there isn't it isn't always a like one-to-one direct corollary or like, you know, sometimes you don't even know what the emotion is that you're feeling. It's just something that's being stirred up inside of you. But you get, you get these signals, right? Of like, okay, like I'm looking, I'm looking for this expression, right? You know, it's like, I've shot a lot of like music, you know, like a lot of like music and concerts and sort of like events in that sense.

Kaila Sachse (48:48)
Bye.

Mm-hmm.

Jose Cotto (he/they) (49:15)
You know, sometimes you know, like, especially with songs that you're familiar with, artists that you're familiar with, like, when there's a certain kind of like emotional moment or like word or phrase in a song, and you know what that stirs up for you, it's like now when you scan the crowd, you're like trying to find someone who's maybe articulating with their facial expressions, with their eyes, with their body language, articulating that they're also feeling that thing, right? ⁓

Kaila Sachse (49:43)
Mm-hmm.

Jose Cotto (he/they) (49:44)
And that's like, it's so much more powerful to document those moments where you know that there's a sort of shared or collective experience than to try to just like force a photograph of like something that you see. yeah.

Kaila Sachse (49:55)
Yeah, yeah, I'm noticing

or I'm sensing a connection between noticing, noticing within ourselves, noticing within other people and within environments. I'm sensing the connection between that noticing and alignment, which can lead to a bigger story of peace. So if something feels off, then it might not be in alignment and it's probably not the best path.

to peace, or on the opposite side, if something feels great, there's just a great energy to it, you follow that same path and that can lead you to internal peace, maybe even bigger peace within a society or a community. it makes me wanna go out and count fire hydrants now.

Jose Cotto (he/they) (50:25)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kaila Sachse (50:47)
Yeah, when you get the name of that newsletter, send it over. I wanna keep that, I wanna add that to the show notes for everybody. if a listener is interested, it'll be right there.

Jose Cotto (he/they) (50:48)
Yeah, I'll definitely.

Yeah, I'll send it to you.

Yeah, he also has a book about it too, I think. ⁓ But yeah, it's a great resource. yeah, I think your comment about finding that path towards peace is spot on and something that I think about often, particularly within my creative practice. I'm of the belief that all of us have been to the places that we're supposed to go. That is encoded in our DNA and coded in our spirit. We've already been to the destination.

and so much about life is about listening to these energies and vibrations and the rhythms around us to just kind of guide us and sort of make sure that we are staying on this path that, again, we already are familiar with internally, Spiritually, it's like, truly, wholeheartedly believe that. You know that whatever I'm

whatever is meant for you is like for you, right? And our jobs are less about living life to sort of carve a path and more about living life to try to stay as close to that path as possible. And when I'm shooting, I'm really hyper aware of that, right?

I could be at an event with like a few hundred people and it's like, there might just be a dozen people in that space that I like need to photograph. You know what I mean? And like those photographs, those photographs feel different, right? I often use this like metaphor of like, I feel like I've had this vision a while back where I was like walking down this long narrow hallway. And at the end of it was this portrait of myself that was not completed.

Kaila Sachse (52:22)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Jose Cotto (he/they) (52:39)
but it was made up of all these images that I've taken over time, right? So it's a sort of like collage mosaic, if you will, of all the photos of people and places and kind of moments that I've experienced that sort of like made up that image. And like my goal as a photographer should try to like accumulate as many of those puzzle pieces as possible before I get to the end of that hallway, you know? So that by the time I get there, I can see as complete of a picture as possible of this being.

⁓ that is made up of everything else, right? I'm like searching for those little nuggets when I'm engaging with people in place. And so much of that, like, it's not about me, right? Like it's about, again, it's about just tuning in and allowing that gut instinct and that like ancestral wisdom that we carry to,

to keep us on the path that we're already wired to be on. But that's my piece right there. It's like trying to arrive at that portrait as completed as possible. It's like, that's the thing that gives me peace when I'm doing this work and trying to do this work from that particular place. It's like, I'm trying to find.

Kaila Sachse (53:37)
Yeah.

Jose Cotto (he/they) (53:54)
There's a lot of beautiful images that I can take. know that there's a lot of beautiful work that I can do, but like I'm trying to find those pieces, you know.

Kaila Sachse (54:00)
Hmm.

a beautiful metaphor. I'm gonna think about that. Thank you so much for this wonderful conversation. I love going deep and thinking about the bigger picture for ourselves, for our communities, our families, our businesses, whatever it is. It's so, so important to think about life zoomed out, but also zoomed all the way in.

Thank you so much for this opportunity to talk about this. If someone wants to find you, where can they find you?

Jose Cotto (he/they) (54:32)
The easiest place is just on my website. If you're to connect virtually that way, it's just JoseCotto.com. I'm also on all the socials at JCCOTTO, trying to cultivate a better relationship with that part of my world. I've taken quite a bit of a hiatus in recent times, et cetera.

I tend to be accessible. And then if folks just want to, you know, shoot me an old fashioned email, it's just hello at JoseCoto.com. And trying to get into that habit more of just being a little bit more intentional and longer form communication, you know, like let's actually have a conversation and not just exchange.

exchange hearts on a screen, you know, but how can we actually connect and truly sync up in a meaningful and fruitful way.

Kaila Sachse (55:30)
Beautiful, beautiful. Thank you so so much. Thank you

Jose Cotto (he/they) (55:33)
Thank you so much. Appreciate you.