Building Resilience Along the Entrepreneurial Journey

Samantha Masabny, Co-Founder of luxury hospitality and retail brand The Woods Maine, discusses the essential qualities of entrepreneurs, emphasizing the importance of resilience and self-reflection. 

Samantha highlights that personal experiences shape one's ability to succeed in business and the necessity of confronting inner challenges to elevate one's brand or business.

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ABOUT SAMANTHA MASABNY

Samantha Masabny is an entrepreneur and community advocate, best known as Co-Founder of The Woods Maine. The luxury hospitality and retail brand celebrates Maine’s craftsmanship and culture. With a passion for revitalizing rural economies,Samantha has grown The Woods Maine from a boutique retreat in Norway, Maine, into a thriving brand that supports artisans and growing businesses. Under her leadership, The Woods Maine Shop has expanded from its flagship treehouse experience (crafted in collaboration with renowned builder Pete Nelson) into a retail and e-commerce destination. The shop curates high-end, Maine-inspired goods and partners with local makers to showcase the best of the region’s craftsmanship. Sam has built a trademarked brand identity from scratch, which includes adult and youth apparel, home decor, and accessories (most notably in collaboration with Chappy Wrap, Sea Bags, Nocs, and Boathouse Sports). Sam’s commitment to sustainability and small-business growth has made her a key figure in Maine’s tourism and retail sectors. 

Beyond The Woods Maine, Sam works with business owners and companies to refine their brand strategy and enhance customer experience. Drawing from her experience in sales, marketing, and business development — both as a business owner and her previous career at HubSpot — she helps entrepreneurs grow while staying true to their values. Whether guiding startups or established brands, her approach focuses on creating lasting impact for businesses and the communities they serve. 

Sam resides in Norway, Maine with her husband and Co-Creator of The Woods, Rob Masabny. When they are not building brands they love traveling with their 8 year old daughter, playing golf, and enjoying great food with friends and family.

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LINKS

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Chapters

• 0:00 Resilience and the Entrepreneurial Journey
• 0:41 Introducing Samantha Masabny of The Woods Maine
• 2:03 Which Came First: Motherhood or Business?
• 3:39 The Untold Challenges of Early Motherhood
• 10:30 How Kids Can Inspire Us
• 11:52 Creating a Village
• 20:02 What Vulnerability Looks Like in Parenting & Business
• 31:27 The Benefits of Vulnerability
• 42:28 How Entrepreneurship Can Strengthen Us
• 47:01 Determining Your "Upstream vs Downstream"
• 54:14 Letting Go to Cultivate Your Power
• 1:10:23 Encouraging Entrepreneurship for Kids
• 1:14:15 Navigating New Parenthood with an Established Business
• 1:19:52 Top 3 Takeaways from This Conversation
• 1:20:14 Outro

Transcript

0:00

You have got to have gone through some stuff in your life to be an entrepreneur. Period. because like you have to be resilient, like to be a successful entrepreneur, you have to be resilient. And I don't think. that when people look at their experiences in their life, they realize how resilient they actually are. when you get into your entrepreneurial world, like you're in year five, you really have to do the hard work of looking at yourself. If you're going to take the brand or the business to the next level, you got to like heal your demons and exorcise them and all that But what it really comes down to is That's what makes you successful is because you've overcome all these other things. Welcome back to the Bringing Up Business podcast, where we talk about business and parenting. Whether you want to start your own business or you're already working for yourself and you're planning a family, you are in the right place. Our goal is to empower you with strategies and different perspectives so you can confidently build your business and your family your way. I am your host, Kaila Sachse, mom and serial business owner. My favorite business is my marketing and creative agency called Yumari Digital. Yumari Digital specializes in websites, email marketing, and branding for small businesses. Today's guest, Samantha Massabney, is co-founder of The Woods Maine. The Woods Maine is a luxury hospitality and retail brand. Beyond The Woods Maine, Sam works with business owners and companies to refine their brand strategy and enhance customer experience. When she is not building brands, she is probably traveling with her husband and eight-year-old daughter, playing golf or enjoying great food with friends and family. Samantha, I too am a foodie and while sadly we will not be talking about food today, I'm still so glad you could join me. Welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. Yeah, of course, of course. I've been so excited for our conversation. So first, let's do a quick dive into your journey. Which came first for you? Working for yourself or becoming a mom? ah Becoming a Becoming a mom came first for me. I actually think it was a huge catalyst in me becoming an entrepreneur because it made me more fearless. I mean if you can experience birth you pretty much can do anything. I mean, it is the most unnatural, natural thing that has ever happened to me. And I'm like, okay, everything after that is got to be easy. So that was my thought process. ah But no, I had Andy and I really had to start looking at myself and where I was mentally. where I wanted to be and who I wanted to be as she got older and there was a lot of self-reflection in that and deciding alongside with my husband that we really wanted to craft a life that we wanted together. and there were some material shifts and the universe kind of nudged us to where we are now. Actually, in some cases it may have shoved us, but ah we heeded the warnings and we saw them, but I think, I don't know if I would be where I am if I hadn't had her. Yeah, yeah, I completely get that. Motherhood is, you mentioned that it was natural and unnatural and I couldn't resonate with that anymore. just, I get it. Everybody tells you when you have a baby, oh, you're going to naturally just know what to do. Like your body is going to do its thing for birth and then breastfeeding. Oh, that'll be so easy and simple if breastfeeding is a chosen route for you. Oh, you're gonna know exactly how to handle your crying baby. No, I was so lost, beyond lost. was terrifying. I admitted I think I was pretty miserable for like 18 months. And what was crazy is I thought I had postpartum depression because of how I felt. And I went to a therapist and I sat down with her and I basically told her everything was going on with me. I was about six weeks after and I was like, I think I have postpartum. She's like, no, everything that you said is what it happens when you become a parent and a mother. And it's all situational. And I was like, Can I get my money back? Like, how come nobody is talking about this shit? Sorry, but seriously, why isn't anybody talking about this? And I was like, this is absolutely absurd. And this whole idea of like bonding with your child and it didn't happen for me. And I thought that there was something wrong with me. But when I was telling a friend of mine, I will never forget what she said. She said, it took me eight weeks to bond with my son. And I go, what? She's like, it's a real thing. And I was like, why are we not talking about this? And I'll tell you, I really do believe what saved my life was I didn't even know doulas existed a little bit of background, when I got pregnant and I had my daughter, I had lost my mom when I was 28 and I had Andy, I think when I was 34. So not having my mom, that was like a big... Now luckily I have my mother-in-law and she's a saint and I love her and it's a second chance at a mother. And I have my aunts and you know, so many people that have rallied for me. But I didn't know like with the birthing process, that you had a thing called a doula and my uncle, the saint that he is, him and my aunt, they gifted me a doula for overnights because I was really struggling and they did that for me. But I'll tell you the two doulas that I had saved my life. I think that my entire first 18 months of my experience and pregnancy would have been so much different if I had known about a doula. and what they bring to the table. And there's just so many aspects that they are looking out for you as a mother. I didn't even know that existed. They literally saved my life. To this day, I still talk to them. They have such a special place in my journey. But I think that we as... women and parents and especially now in the world of social media do ourselves a disservice for not talking about I mean we talk about how hard it is and how tired it is but like the mental health implications of it Especially if, and at the time I didn't realize I had the entrepreneurial human inside of me. I think I kind of did in certain ways. But I think that that's what I struggle with as well is like, what is my purpose now? Because I didn't realize I was an entrepreneur yet because I hadn't gotten there. However, this craving in career felt shattered because I didn't know where I was meant to be anymore. But I was being told you're meant to be a mother and that's all you need to think about. But then there's this whole other career side of me going, but I have really big ambitions. And this feels like a really big thing that I can't even wrap my brain around. How am I ever gonna do that? So it was almost like I was grieving the loss of who I was. and a career that I had yet to discover without realizing that I needed to go through this process of becoming a mother to become fearless, to realize I could dig myself out of the hole and come back stronger and more fearless that would actually set me up for my entrepreneurial jump, if that makes any sense. it doesn't make sense. It's like down deep into my soul. It makes complete sense. Being an ambitious woman in this world is like, it's like David and Goliath, right? We are just the small David against this huge societal Goliath telling us that we get married, we have babies, and that is our purpose in life. And let me be clear, it is completely okay if you just want those things. here's the thing. I admired that. That actually made me in some ways feel a little less during the process, because I wasn't there, but I saw how awesome it could be. And that's I struggled to reconcile, because I didn't realize, like, it's okay to be both. It's okay to... be a mom and be 100 % dedicated to your children in the sense that that is your mission, that is your world. I think that that is amazing. Yeah. I just knew that there was something bigger in me that needed to get done for me and my purpose. And I didn't know how I was going to get there with being a mom because it's such an important job. And so it was like I felt guilt in trying to pursue that or the thought of pursuing that or the thought of letting that die because I had this bigger priority. That was like a mental struggle. don't even know if I've ever really communicated it that way until now, but I think that that's what was going on in my brain. ah But she is, she is the why I do what I do now. Yeah. You know, like she is the person, the soul, the energy that has made me step into who I am. You know? So I say to myself, like, I may have not bonded with her early on in terms of like the first couple weeks, but now, like, she's my ride or die. Mm. Mm, that is so beautiful because it's so easy for us to say, you know what, we have kids, we have to focus on our kids, everything else is back burner and it's probably not going to happen now. It can happen later after they move out. And understandably so. Raising kids takes a lot of time and bandwidth and energy and when we want to do our best for them, It's super easy to say everything else is last priority. However, you have been able to flip that on its head and say, you know what, because of my daughter, because of my baby, that is why I'm going to pursue my calling. She's my teacher. Like that's the thing is like that's I look at her as my teacher. And I look at her as a mirror and going, okay, I need to work on my show my own triggers or okay, I need to learn how to do this differently so that she has the tools to do it differently. But I also like the fun and the creativity and the lack of filter. It drives me insane But I also admire and say to myself I need to get more back to that Because that is more connected Than where we are as adults with all the pressures and filters and things and and full disclosure. Have not done this on my own and I want to be very very clear about that. I Have been blessed with an amazing partner my husband is an amazing partner. And growing up with a mom, because I lost my father when I was 10 months old, he was 33, my mom was young, my mom was a single mom. And I don't know how I have a whole different level of respect for what she did. And I know what it's like to grow up in that type of household or divorce and things like that. I've been through all of that from a child's perspective. But my husband and I are a team. ah And I will say that I wouldn't be who I am if he didn't support us in the way that he does and not everybody gets that support ah But everybody does deserve that support So whether you're in a relationship that is no you're not getting that support you're not in the right spot and it's hard to get out but freedom is on the other side of that fear and so You know, the other thing too is it's not to say you can't do it alone. It's just it can be harder. But those supports do not have to be in a partner. It could be in the friends that you surround yourself with. It could be in your community. That's why we moved to Norway. Having lost my parents, I had the perspective that. If something happened to both my husband and myself, I know that the community of Norway would rally around my daughter. That is why I decided to anchor myself, my business and my roots here in this community, because it's unlike anything I've ever experienced. That is the reason why, is because I know that they would surround my child with the support that she needed. And not having my folks, that's what I needed to make sure was set up for her. And that was a big catalyst of why we decided to root ourselves here as a family, but also our business is to be part of the revitalization of our community. Hmm. You know, there is a misconception when we become mothers or parents in general that the village will support us. And the village is this super vague, undescribed concept of mystery people who are going to step into our lives and magically help us. raise our babies. And after having become a mother myself, I have realized that the village is a total fallacy unless we take steps to make it a reality. And that's exactly what you did. You said, you know what, Norway is the place where I can raise this child and have the support that is needed So you're not alone. It's like when you lose someone or you go through something difficult. The people that you think are gonna be the people that show up are often not the people that you think are gonna be there when you actually need them. That was very surprising when I became a parent. ah I'm certainly not gonna be calling anybody out here, but people that I thought would step up to the plate and be in my life didn't. And the ones that I knew were gonna always be there. but the way and the fierceness in which they showed up for me. And emotionally, financially, whatever it was that I needed, the way that they showed up for me. was so amazing. I think the most amazing part coming out of it is that I have no issues with those that didn't. I have no resentment. I'm at peace with it all because I say to myself, who knows what's going on in their life, right? And I look at it and I sit there and I give grace to that or I don't hold it against them and I just try to continue to model that. Like you said, you have to step into it, you have to accept it, but you also have to ask for help. You have to be vulnerable. And especially if you're in business and you're type A. and you like to control things and you like things done the way that they are done and you have a certain mindset and outset that is very challenging to step out of your own way and raise your hand and say "I'm drowning I'm dying I don't have this" because it's a pride thing, it's a control thing, But it's essential for mental and physical survival. Yep, yep, yep. And part of it too could also be just the not knowing how to ask. Not even knowing A, that that's an option and B, how do you do it? How do you ask for help? know, first, like how do you even recognize that you need help? I'm speaking specifically to the person who is so used to taking things on by themselves. That that is like the first instinct. Yeah, tell me. That's you. That's you. That's me too. So I'll say I let it go too far. So like I didn't ask soon enough. I will say that the tendencies I had early on with my daughter when I had her, because all I knew was being raised by a single mom and it was only like after I stepped back, did I realize like my husband would say to me, you know, you're not doing this alone. Like my thought process was doing it alone as a single mom, because that's what I knew. I got this, I got this, I got this, I got this. You know what I mean? Yeah. being so hard on myself because I couldn't get up for two weeks after I gave birth, you know what I mean? and like letting go of control of him doing all the diapers or whatever it might be. ah And I feel like dig back in the memory bank. There's like a reason why we forget about it, right? Like how traumatic it was. You're like, just block it out. I gotta like dig back. But I think I waited too long in some cases to ask for help. out of pride, but it was really just like to a point where like I just cracked open and was completely emotionally unreasonable with myself but that also opened up a lot of things that I need to work on on myself with healing what I needed to take on. What was my scars that I needed to, what patterns did I need to change? You know, all the deep stuff that nobody has time to go through, but at some point you're gonna have to face if you really wanna grow. but like those type of things that now I recognize when I need help more, especially in business, it's been, growing a business is very challenging and growth can be very scary and very unnerving and exciting and all the things at once, but there are high highs and low lows and. I had some pretty low lows last year, last March. And I had to reach out for help for my mental health. And I didn't, I couldn't take it anymore because I was doing all of the things along with trying to, like I was trying to do it all myself. The finances, the this, the that. And I don't think I would have made it through if I hadn't reached out for help, frankly. But I think that's something that we always need to remind each other of. as parents, as entrepreneurs that like... you have to do it and it's not weak. It's actually really, really a strength to be able to do that and then execute the recommendations you're given or the constraint that you have to implement or the patterns you have to change. Like those are strengths. And I think that that growth and development if your child can see you implement that. Those vulnerabilities, I try to explain to Andy when she was younger about emotional boundaries. She had a friend in her class who had lost his father. And so she was home one day and we were talking about it. And she got to a point where she was going to cry. And she says, I want to stop. want to stop. She was very young. I want to stop. And I said, are you at your boundaries? And she said, yes. And I said, okay, we're going to stop. But that conversation held on. So now when we're talking about asking for help and things like that, she says, I'm at my boundaries or she says I'm over my boundaries. So she can, we can gauge where we are, but it's that type of stuff, both as a parent, but also in business is super, super important. There's so much, mean, your business is your child. Your business is your child. Yep. So not only are raising a human, you're raising a business, it gets very complicated when both are in the early stages of their life. And you as a leader need to do the work to clean up your own crap so that you could change your own patterns to raise your child right and keep your business straight. The principles are the same, just different applications. Yes. so important about that is the more and more you talk to entrepreneurs, you talk about mental health, which I don't think is talked about enough, you're like, my God, you experienced that too. Again, going back to the parenting thing, early on, why don't we talk about these things? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And you know, the literal moments like everybody sees us on Instagram and doing this or podcasts or they didn't see me in March curled up on the ground going, I can't do this anymore. I don't want to do this anymore. I don't want to be here anymore. Yeah, yeah. I, yeah. And you know what? think people, people are not only afraid to display their vulnerabilities, so even capturing it in some sort of medium and expressing it to the world is already the first barrier. The second, the first barrier of acceptance, the second barrier of acceptance that I can see within society is that society sees that. behavior, if they're even able to see it, see somebody else curled up or crying or whatever it looks like. And it's written off. It's like, that person has "lost it," quote unquote. That person is, quote unquote, "crazy." And it's just, it's not regarded for the full spectrum of emotion that fortunately, unfortunately, we get to experience as humans. It's like all of the good happy dappy stuff, like that's totally accepted. Fine. That's not written off. But for some reason, the other side of the spectrum, the sadness, the anger, the shame, that isn't regarded in the same way. And this is my perspective. I don't know if you're seeing it the same way, maybe. Maybe not. Yeah, think it's by, yes, I think when we're talking about the perception piece, I came across something on a feed the other day. And I forget the term the person used, but it was something like, I don't want to say sympathy marketing or like it was something like that. She was putting something vulnerable out there, but there was like some sort of tie to like. someone could look at potentially interpret the post as like, I'm trying to sell things based on my struggles with the business and where we are as economy And I took a pause and I was like, I wish I could just reshape how she went to market with that a little bit, because it was almost like she was apologizing for being vulnerable and trying to be like, hey, any, proactively getting ahead of anybody going, you're just trying to make people feel bad so they buy your product. Like she was going to market in a way that apologized for it. And it just made me feel sad because She shouldn't have to feel like she has to proactively apologize because of what's gonna happen in the comment section. But she should be able to be vulnerable and just being like, this is a really hard time and shopping local with me could make a difference in my life. And that's not a pity thing, that's a real thing. And so I actually did a post on our Instagram account the other day, I do these like shop thoughts. And most of them are product focused and stuff. And I did one the other day of like, why shop local? and um Shopping local shouldn't just be a holiday thing. It should be year round. But it also like the why behind why I started the Woods Maine shop and the brands we curate and who we work with. The reason why I do it now is because I want financial security obviously for my family. But I could create careers. that don't exist in my rural area of Maine, I could literally create product experts and I can create sales directors and I can create an organization that operates like my background in tech and create an organization and employ people and give them financial freedom. Like, holy crap, that is so crazy and impactful. And I know I was put on this earth to help people, but imagine a world where I can grow our online business and our retail store. where it creates jobs and career paths and fills people with passion and maybe they can be entrepreneurs within our organization. not only that, when you buy our goods, not only are you supporting our small business, but if you buy the goods of the people we carry, our orders get bigger with those makers. And then all of a sudden, I'm able to impact their livelihoods. That's why you shop local, right? So when someone is struggling in their small business, and they are being vulnerable and putting themselves out there. It's not to have a sympathy purchase. It's for people to understand the trials and the mental and emotional things that entrepreneurs go through. It's them saying, hey, I'm going to be vulnerable with you and tell you a little bit more about my story. But I think that it's hard for people to be vulnerable and show that side. I've become more comfortable speaking out about my mental health struggles as being a mom early on, which was very challenging, because everybody looked at me sideways. A lot of people looked at me sideways with being honest about how I didn't enjoy it early on. Like I love her and I loved her, but I didn't love the experience that I was experiencing like most people portray. And I think that portrayal, like how you portray yourself in business and as a parent. oftentimes has to be calculated because what can happen in the comment section and we're in such a world now where whether you're a parent or whether you're a business owner comment sections can bury your life faster than you could imagine it could go viral it could go south on on ratings i mean That's a story for another day, but our shop, we got nefarious ratings before we even open our shop early on 14, 15, 16, because of a legal dispute that we were in, we ended up winning. There was nothing wrong. But people nefariously went there that never shop with us, no business, and gave us one star reviews before we even open our shop. We're still digging out on Google with our reviews. It's crazy, right? But people can bury you as a person and a business in minutes now. So there is less of an appetite for people to show their vulnerability as a parent or as a business owner. And so that automatically puts a cap on your ability to discuss these things. Yeah, oh, that is an incredibly important point because the public perception of us as individuals, as parents, and as business leaders, especially as business leaders, right? Because our public perception as a business leader affects our business. They are one in the same in today's day and age. Gone are the days where you could run a business silently in the background and be a separate I mean, you could try, right? But the internet sleuths. The internet will investigate and find out who you are, who you're tied to, and vice versa. If your business is doing something funky, they're going to find out who the owner of that business is, right? so on one side, it's almost a good thing, right? That there's so much... accountability in today's society. It can be a good thing. Businesses can do better knowing that there are real repercussions for taking bad actions. On the flip side though, it does quell people's desire to want to express themselves fully for the fear of being judged and therefore persecuted. It's definitely a weird time. The thing that I've resisted the most is putting myself out there and my face out there, especially as I grow our brand. Because growing up, I was always self-conscious. just was always feeling judged, or if I was or I wasn't. I just was a very insecure person in a lot of ways. And I putting myself out there, for criticism was like my worst nightmare and then having a child and putting myself out there and subjecting them to things that I put out there or whatever just felt terrifying frankly and unfortunately I have learned that the more that I've put myself out there for my brand the more people get to know me and my team and their faces and our stories and our voices and our personalities, the more my brand has grown. hate that because it is so uncomfortable. However, as one of my amazing coaches once told me, my work is to get comfortable being uncomfortable every single day. Both as a parent. both as a business owner. And so I just do my one takes of my product spotlights. I put them out, God bless. I close my eyes. I send them to my paid ads guy. We run the paid ads against them and God bless, right? But it works. But it's also gotten me comfortable in my own skin. It's gotten me comfortable just being like, I'm not gonna wear makeup, I'm gonna throw a baseball cap on because guess what? I don't care what I look like, I want you to know about this amazing product that we carry because guess what? You're going to love it, you're gonna wanna get it, you're gonna wanna get it for your friend, you're gonna wanna tell your friends about it and you buying that is gonna impact that maker's life. So it's not about me anymore. And I think that has what's gotten me out of that head space is that if it's not about me, it's about the mission. And so that's what I'm trying to also teach my daughter now is that this isn't about, the Woods Maine isn't about us anymore. It's about the. the guests we serve in the tree house. And it's about the customers that walk through that door. And it's about the makers we carry and being an outlet for us creatively and the financial security that we hope to once have with this and the financial security I hope to once give to both my employees and our makers just from the Woods Maine revenue stream in their life. That's far greater. than if someone wants to chew me up in the comment section anymore. Because my hope is that those that follow us, that those that surround us in our Woods Maine community, in our own community, friends, family, they're gonna go and fight that battle for me in the comment section. And I just gotta move on. And I'm not entirely there yet, but I'm getting closer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Going to market and marketing, putting yourself out there, putting your business out there is a form of desensitizing your vulnerabilities, right? It's like because you're putting yourself out there over and over again, and yeah, you're going to receive negative feedback every once in while, By seeing that negative feedback over time, it's going to have less and less of an impact on you. So there's a bravery in getting out there and saying, look, I'm scared right now and I'm gonna do this anyway, because there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Yeah, yeah. to being a parent. Like I said, when I had Andy, she made me more fearless. And it's like, how do I continuously embrace that and demonstrate that for her? I don't put the face on every day and that I'll... put a camera in front of me and I'll put bloopers out, which was not my idea. That was my team. And now people like our bloopers, but like that showing that side of me, was not ah on board with, but my team says it's awesome. And actually it's quite funny now, but being able to laugh at myself or being able to put myself out there, like that is something that I want her to see. Yeah. is that I can do it. And so I struggle with telling her, especially when it comes to the social media aspect, like you're not going to be on social media for whatever, timeframe it is, but then she sees me on there doing these things, right. That is something that I struggle with as I'm trying to raise her in this new world. However, what I'm trying to do is integrate her as much as possible with the business. So the business, we did this not just to fulfill my own career thing, but it was to craft the life that we want. So how do we get her more integrated in this? So if she wants to manage social media or have a social media, she can manage her business account as she gets older or whatever it might be, then I can monitor it. So there's certain ways that we're trying to balance that, but the vulnerability piece, especially as a parent. So even if you're doing like parenting blogs or parenting tips or whatever it is, You want to come across as this parent that's like, I got this all together and stuff like that. Because if you start to show your vulnerability, you're worried about what happens in the comment section. But the one thing I will say, I've noticed both on parenting posts and I've noticed an entrepreneur. people will show up to support you more than the people that won't. If you actually go into those comments sections, the words of support, the words are like, thank you for saying that. I didn't have the bravery to say it out loud, especially under parenting posts. Like that's what we need to be doing more. I guess what I'm trying to say is don't be scared to put that out there. And if you don't know how to ask for help, Sometimes the community in which you are online with, you put that out there. You see how many people show up for you there. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. You know, the scariest post that I ever posted was right after I was diagnosed with postpartum depression. And I just had this internal calling to post it, to post it, to post it. And I was so scared to talk about that. I didn't want to be judged as a less than mother, an incapable mother. Worse, I didn't want anybody to knock on my door and take my kid because I was unfit. Right? But I just kept having this calling, I got to post this thing. And as soon as I did, I felt a release of that weight. And what came into my comment section was exactly as you described, it was all supportive. All of it was love. Now, am I am I saying to our listener like, hey, if you post something vulnerable, you will get 100 % love back? No, I can't guarantee that. internet can be savage. But what I can say is that by posting the hard things, people resonate with that and it helps them feel seen too. Because who knows how many people had seen the post and were going through something similar but didn't know how to verbalize it. And what I had posted gave gave word to something, it gave a confirmation to a reality that they'd been suffering with. And now they feel less alone, less crazy, and they have more tools to move forward. I also think that a lot of times, especially if you're talking in the entrepreneurial vein, speaking about your traumas, things that you've experienced in life, a lot of it is also to protect your partner, protect your family, protect the perception of other things. But I think that... You have got to have gone through some stuff in your life to be an entrepreneur. Period. mean, honestly, like trauma, like, like trauma is like probably an entrepreneurial quality part of a DNA of an entrepreneur, because like you have to be resilient, like to be a successful entrepreneur, you have to be resilient. And I don't think. that when people look at their experiences in their life, they realize how resilient they actually are. And like when you get into your entrepreneurial world, like you're in year five, you really like have to do the hard work of looking at yourself. If you're going to take the brand or the business to the next level, you got to like heal your demons and exorcise them and all that hard crap you don't want to look at. But what it really comes down to is That's what makes you successful is because you've overcome all these other things. I find it so fascinating that we don't talk about those things that happened to us as entrepreneurs. It's like, okay, I'm going to do the work silently, but I'm going to show up with strength. And you're like, okay, isn't that exactly what you shouldn't be doing? Shouldn't you be going, this is what happened to me. I'm still like, Hey, so this happened to me when I was younger. Like I'm still like letting people like I'm just like coming out about like all this stuff in the last like year or two. But like you said, that weight lifts off and you're like, okay, I'm on next level vibration now. Right? Like I'm moving like the universe. Okay, I'm not living in that spot anymore. But it's so hard to do that because you want like of all the factors we just talked about. So I just find it to be very, very fascinating that like, I don't know why we don't talk about it more. Like even myself, think people with minds would be blown if they actually sat down and entrepreneurs went off the litany of things that they experienced in life. People would be like, really? Like, yeah, I lived through all of that. And that's not to say that there were not great parts of life and childhood growing up and all of those good things, but all the things that hardened them, all the things that shaped their type A personalities and control issues to then lead them to entrepreneurship, know, like that, like right there, I think people would be mind blown and be like, whoa. And I think that they would be in awe and I think that people would be like, Wow, that's inspirational. But in our minds, we're like, we can't talk about that shit. Yes, yes. And you know what's so fun? This is gonna sound kind of crazy, which is entrepreneurship, right? Entrepreneurship is crazy. It is, right? It's just like you're going into the unknown, doing something new, having faith that it's gonna work out when you have no idea whether or not it will, but you do it anyway. So you know what's fun about going through hard things is that Yeah, it's really sucky when you're in the middle of it. It's the worst. It's the absolute worst. feel like you're never, things are never gonna change. It feels like forever. But when you are able to get out on the other side of the sucky thing, the future sucky things feel less sucky because you've already survived a really hard thing. It completely shifts your perspective. And now you're stronger and more capable and more composed. For me, that was a big one. I realized, my gosh, when I go through hard things now with clients or work or whatever it is, I am more composed than ever. And it's not to say that I'm not feeling anything, I'm definitely feeling things, but I'm not letting those emotions completely wash over me and take over my entire life and grind me to a halt. Instead, I'm able to say, okay, I'm feeling really angry right now. I'm feeling really sad about this right now. And also, I know I can get through it because I've gotten through something similar before. The thing I've said when I've talked to colleagues in the past, But when I'm going through an experience, I go, do I feel like I'm swimming upstream? Because if I feel like I'm swimming upstream, I'm going in the wrong direction. But if I have faith and turn my back with the current, it's gonna be bumpy. I'm probably gonna go off the side of a cliff. I'm gonna get cut up. But the idea is like, it's going to lead me to where I'm meant to be ultimately. And like what you said, you said it much more eloquently. I always say like, sometimes when you're in the, like when you're like going through it, you don't know why you're going through it. But the idea is that like when you do get to the other side, And have like faith in the universe like I am I am not a religious person But I have faith and energy and bigger picture and vibrations and the woo stuff that I never thought I'd have the woo stuff I'm woo woo now. I've been converted to woo woo Because I have seen yes, I know but I've seen the power of the manifestation I've been seen the power of just like having faith and and sometimes I struggle and grapple with it in things that are going on in our world in our schools and our in our You know, everything, I struggle with that. But then I remind myself that is not where I need to be. I can only impact the circles around me and I try to bring myself back to where I am and what I can do, which will keep me from like losing my mind. But I don't know, have you ever seen Steve Harvey's jump? Have you ever seen Steve Harvey's jump? You know Steve Harvey? Yeah. So Steve Harvey, if you go on YouTube and you look up Steve Harvey's jump, he was in between takes at Family Feud. But the concept is everybody's given a gift, whether it's to cut hair or do lawns or run a company or be a doctor, everybody's given this gift. And the idea is like, it's a right that your parachute's gonna open. You just have to jump. And at some point that parachute will open. When I saw that, that was a big turning point in my journey because the concept is you have a God-given gift, or if you believe in God or whoever it is, you have a gift. And the idea is you just need to jump off that cliff. and just have faith that that parachute's gonna open. But it's gonna take work and it's gonna take sacrifice. And happiness is a choice. You have to choose to intercept your thoughts and be happy. I've been pursuing happiness my whole 44 years. And just in the last year and a half have I realized that I have to make a choice on how I react. And that's where my happiness is driven from. And that it's not gonna be when the business is built. and when the bank account has money in it and whatever it is, have to choose otherwise I'm gonna lose my mind. Because I'm always gonna be in the pursuit of it. I have to have faith that that parachute is gonna open. Ooh, that's so good. Earlier you said something so poignant. There's a distinction between swimming upstream or deciding to turn around and go with your natural flow. And even if you decide to go with your natural flow, there will be bumps. It will not be a smooth ride. It's gonna be ugly. Yeah, it's going to be ugly. Now there's a key difference in recognizing whether you're swimming upstream or you're just hitting a bump, but you're still going with your flow. How would you describe the difference between those two? How do you know when you're swimming upstream or when you're just going through a rough patch? two things come up for me. One, there will be signs and the other is joy. So. The idea is I choose a word instead of like a at the like at new years instead of a resolution. I choose a word every year. And if things I'm doing in my life don't align with that word, then I should aim to shed it. Right. So I put it on a bracelet. If you don't know the company and this is a plug and I'm not getting paid. My intent, my intent.com. I'm here if you want to give me a deal. My intent.com. My word is joy. I've had this bracelet on for two years because I feel like I haven't mastered joy yet. But with this concept of swimming upstream. It's like... I was at a company I never thought I would leave. And sometimes it takes an immovable object to move an immovable object and the signs were there. And it's your choice to say, I'm going to ignore the signs and continue to hit my head against the wall. Or I'm going to take a moment and pause and go, these signs are really uncomfortable. And I might make the choice to turn my back. and say, this no longer serves me. I don't know what's on the other side of that river, but I'm gonna jump in, turn my back, and we're gonna find out, right? So there could be like physical people signs, things that you're like, that are the universe trying to get you to be like, we swim in upstream here, you're exhausted if you're out of breath, if you're unhappy, if things aren't changing, if you want... something more that you're not getting. That is your sign that you are swimming upstream. If there is something in your soul that is nagging and you're not listening to it, you are swimming upstream. Now, the next logical thing is, how am I going to answer that call? How am I going to do that? That's not your job. Your job is to figure out how to cut ties with whatever the heck it is you're doing. and then be open to putting yourself in the position to receive getting on the stream and starting to go down it. Ooh, so challenging, so challenging. I'll tell you what, am, I'm really grateful that my calling happened when I was, 22, 23 years old and my frontal lobe wasn't fully developed yet because my knack for adventure and doing crazy stuff was so much greater than it is now. I was able to just jump in and, have faith and have fun, right? But now making these big decisions, it's so challenging. Well, for me, what I've learned is almost everything I've done in my life has been driven out of my own fear. All the decisions I made in a lot of aspects of my life were fear driven based on things that I had experienced in my life. And when my mom was alive, my mom was such a unique and amazing woman, and I'm not gonna tear up. She had a tough life. But her creative entrepreneurial spirit, I felt like her life didn't allow her to reach where her soul should have been. And that always stuck with me. I was always like, my God, if I had an ounce of her talent, artistic talent and her creativeness, like. But her circumstances didn't allow and I always just felt like she got cheated that way She was just the most brilliant human. She looked at the world in such color and possibility but because of my own traumas and you know all the stuff that I had experienced and Just where I was I always held myself back out of fear I'm in a new stage of life where I'm like I've done that I'm done giving into the fear I feel like I'm in the bonus round of my life at this point. And so I try at all costs to not let fear drive my decision making. And it is a choice in every conversation, every moment I have to catch myself. am literally rewiring my brain. And I've gotten to the point where now I can almost intercept because I can feel it. I've worked with mind, body. an amazing mind body coach out of Arizona, Amy Tyre, dear friend of mine. love her. We did a year of mind body coach. And so one of the things she taught me is I can now feel before my brain has fear or whatever it is that I can like be like, okay, it's coming. I got to intercept. I don't always do it, but there's certain things, you know, I've had a lot of health issues in my life and things like that. And I think that a lot of that was the mental. weight and how it resonated in my body. Like it's just amazing. mean, honestly, if you feel that fear, the tightness in your chest, my back hurts. Those are signs that you are swimming upstream in whatever situation you're in. Now, if someone came to me and goes, I'm a single mother, there's not much I can do. I can't start my business and raise my kid. I'm gonna say, I don't know how to help you, because I don't. I don't. I don't know what that looks like. That's not my area of expertise. But what I do say is, girl, the fact that we're having this conversation and you're coming to me is your first sign that there's something more out there for you. So while I don't know how to get you there, we need to find the people that are gonna get you to where you need to be. And I don't know what those resources are, but let's chat and let's figure out like where's your head at and... Do I know anybody that might be able to help you start tackling it? But that's what I would say is that like, and it's not easy. That's the whole entire point. It's freaking terrifying. It's terrifying. But the idea is that's when you can start to delineate. So you've got this other thing or like if you have a word with joy or whatever it is, if it's not aligning with the vision that you have, That is a sign you are swimming upstream. Yes. Yes. Yes. You said something really important just now and it was, if you're a single mother, I wouldn't know how to help you. But what we can do is find other people who do know how to help you. And that concept of, hey, if you don't know how to do something, if you don't know what to do next, aligning yourself and surrounding yourself with people who do know, that is a great first step. When you reach out to people who are where you want to go, they are more likely to have the answers that you're seeking before you even know how to form the question. That part, when you don't know what to do next, find the people who have been there. I mean, I've been very fortunate to have a lot of support and a lot of things that have allowed me to be safe in... going through my journey in my life. And I'm very fortunate with the family and friends and people that I have surrounding me. And I think that that's another part of it too, is that both can be true, right? Like you can have your traumas and the things that you need and the help that you need to reach out for. and your past. And I think a lot of times we have to qualify it being like, my parents were awesome though. Like my parents were awesome. And I grew up in an awesome household, but I also had these other things. Like we tend to do that. But it's really powerful to stand in that uncomfortable place and say like, okay, we're either gonna deal with this or we're gonna walk away from this. that's something I saw with my mother is that like when she got into a situation where after my father passed and she remarried, he, he did have a drinking problem and my mom did put him in rehabilitation. And as soon as he got out, he started drinking again and she now had, three of us kids. And she said, Nope, not today, Satan. And she's like, you broke your deal. I'm out. And while. It was tough on us. She was like, I am not going to raise my kids in this environment. And so she worked, she was a special ed teacher in West Philadelphia and taught special ed in like the eighties and nineties, which is like wild back in the day. she sold insurance and she was a bartender at night. And her big goal was to keep us in the same house that we lived in growing up for stability. And she hustled. And that's where my hustle came from. And she was also a brilliant artist. So she did like hand painted clothing, sneakers, and she tried to like sell stuff on the side. And she was just a brilliant, brilliant woman. I look at her hustle, but like she made that choice and she was like, I'm swimming upstream if I continue to do this. And it was not an easy decision. but she did things to what she thought was the best. However, that strength in taking herself out of there or that strength in saying, need help with this. And I also learned that she didn't ask for help a lot with the things that she needed. And it did her in in certain ways with her body and her stress. both as a business person, also as a mom, right? like she said, the biggest thing that she always worried about me was how much I worried. That was her thing. She was always worried about how much I worried. And that's something I needed to work on because when you're worrying, you're swimming upstream. it's a sign you're not having faith in the bigger picture. Right, right, yep. And ultimately when you are worried, you cannot be making those high vibration moves that move the needle forward and that are in alignment with your calling. You just cannot do it, you cannot. think that's where I'm at, like from a business standpoint too, right? This, I'm now in the phase of like, what is healthy worrying and what is unhealthy worrying? And trying to distinguish. in my business, is this like something I truly need to be worrying about or am I just on the hamster wheel because I need something to do? Or is this actually a legitimate concern for the business? And it's the same thing when I'm raising my daughter. Do I need to worry about the fact that she won't eat anything other than chicken nuggets and peanut butter at eight years old? And I'm trying these new Grüns gummies that she's giving me a hard time about because the ads just keep getting served up to me, right? another paid opportunity if anybody wants to me free Grüns gummies. But like, cause she's not getting enough nutrition, like is this something I really need to be on the hamster wheel and like killing myself over because my child won't eat other food? Or is she going to survive and I need to work on like something else, right? But like, but I think that this is also inherently something that women ourselves do because we're caretakers. We want, you know, the best for everybody. Like that, that's just like our DNA. But it's the same with businesses. It's what is an unhealthy worry and what is a healthy worry. And that's like a new phase that I'm trying to navigate. Right, right. you said something important about, are you on the hamster wheel just to keep busy? And that, I got to tell you, cutting out all of the busy work is a game changer for your business. When we can focus on what actually matters, what is actually developing our business, what is actually serving our clients and our customers, that is what matters most. It's the side busy, busy, busy work. We have to question why are we doing that? And how do we either delegate it or cut it out? Yeah, it is control. Yeah. 100%. Well, it was interesting. My coach, I worked with an amazing coach out of a company called Predictable Profits. Hi guys. I worked with Tom and they sent me a book. But the concept was was that if you said, I want to grow my business to 500,000 this year, there can be like 30 different ways you could do that. But if you're like, I want to grow my business to 5 million this year, like there might be like one or two ways that you can do that. The idea is as a leader, you need to be focusing on those one or two ways and to shed the 80%, delegate the 80%. And that's where that fear comes in because you're like, do I need to hire a full-time person? Do I need to take this off of my plate? then you sit down and you write down like, what is the 80 % of soul sucking stuff that I do every day? And could this go to someone else? Right. But then you're like, how do I keep the company lean? How do I do that? Right. So the best advice I got was from a dear friend of ours. and he said early on when we started our business, find someone that could do multiple things, like a jack of all trades as opposed to hiring multiple people, right? Just like find your right hand that can do many number of things. And we have been fortunate over the last five years to find the most amazing person, Julie. works with us and Julie is the company. Like she's everything. She does a million things. for the shop, she's beyond just sitting in the retail space. She's sales minded, she's social media minded. That's that thing. And I can shed some of the 80%. So I can sit here and talk to you guys and maybe change the perspective of other people who are sitting in my seat where I was three years ago, just like other people have done and come before me. Yeah. I love that advice so much hiring people who are jack of all trades. And the hiring doesn't necessarily need to be nine to five if you're not quite there yet. It could be contractors, right? But the goal is that almost everybody's contractors. Love it, love it, yeah, see, exhibit A. And so when you have people on your team who can do more than just one micro function, now you have more bases covered. And to level that up, when you can find people who are bringing ideas to the table, game changer. That collaboration, that synergy can take things to the next level in ways that... You yourself, if you were working by yourself in a vacuum, you could never. You could never. it's life changing. I mean, it's absolutely life changing and I feel so incredibly fortunate. And this is where my new renewed vision for the purpose of the Woods Maine shop is and our online where I really want to grow our online business and is that the only way I know how to thank these people is by creating something that will give them the life that they wanna craft for themselves, whatever that is, whether it's a growth position in the company and they wanna create their career with us and financial security, whether it's them creating ideas or products within our business, I want us to be a vehicle and an outlet for them to be going in their stream, right? I wanna be their stream. where they're gonna end up where they are meant to be, right? Like, I wanna be that so that in their own lives, they don't feel like they're going against the current. Like, I want to be that water for them. And so I think, like you say, like when you bring somebody in that is multifaceted, it's huge because then you're like, okay, you can say to them, like, you are great in all of these areas. What do you want in your life? Start to talk to me, what lights you up? I have had my team members write me a list of the things that they hate to do and all the things that they love to do. And I wanna start focusing on giving them all the stuff that they love to do. Now granted, some of those times they're gonna have to do some things that they hate. However, if 80 % of their time is spent on the things that they love and 20 % is time, know, stuff like that, at some point we'll find somebody else who loves to do that 20 % when we get big enough. and then yours is gonna be living in the 80. Yep, that is a recurring theme that I am hearing on this show with other guests who are also running successful businesses like yours. They are investing in their team members. They are getting to know their team on a deeper level. They are understanding how their team ticks and what lights them up because when we lean into our team members, and we say, okay, this is what you love to do, this is what you're great at, guess what? Naturally, we're going to have a better output and everybody's happy. Everybody wins. Why not build an environment where everybody's winning? But it goes back to what we talking about about getting on the hamster wheel. Because if people are performing at a high level because it lights them up, you find yourself less on the hamster wheel just trying to fill the time with worry. Because someone else is worrying about it that probably cares more about it now than you did, right? Which is a whole new ball game. A couple months, like maybe it was a month or two ago, we hired a fractional CFO and we have Julie and then my husband now is most like my husband. I found my 80 % was the bills coming due, the finances. Really what put me in a very bad mental health position last March was the financial weight of the company because it's an area that I can do, but it is a big source of anxiety for me. And my husband is like, you ever see the movie, A Beautiful Mind with like numbers, like that's like my husband, I don't know how he does it. he's like a numbers genius and he's operationally focused contract negotiations. Like he's just genius. And so the business was growing. I couldn't do it anymore. That was the 80%. I just sat there now, granted we'd have conversations about it, but like he wasn't controlling. you know, paying this bill and doing that. And I was doing all the stuff, the marketing. He basically was just trying to keep me from jumping out the window, right? Like that's, was just trying to raise our daughter because I was working and keep me from going out the window and doing the tree house functions and helping our hospitality side of the business. But like on the shop side of the business, it was just basically keeping us forward. You know, he was my sounding board. In the last, I would say six months, he's taken basically all of that off me. And it was three months ago, I discovered when I called Julie, our ops and everything ah for the business, I called her and she said, hey, I'm on a call with Jim, which is our CFO and Rob. And I was like, was I supposed to be on this call? She was like, no, it's our weekly meeting. I'm like, what weekly meeting? And she's like, it's our weekly finance meeting. Can I call you back? And I'm like, yeah. And I get home and I'm like, what is this weekly finance meeting that you have on Thursday mornings and why am I not there? He's like, I don't want you there. He's like, you don't need to be there. He's like, we're handling it. We talk about the priorities and the bills and this, that and the other thing. And like part of me was like offended that like I was not like I'm what I'm not in this meeting and I should be there. Like they're talking about things that I know about, right? uh It's been going on for like, think almost two months now. I happened to be home doing laundry the other day when the meeting was going on and I found that I couldn't help but insert myself like four times into the meeting and I was asked to leave the room. um But what this goes to show you is when you start to delegate, you hire those people that can do multiple things when you get people involved, when you ask for help. When I was at the bottom of the barrel and I said to my husband, cannot do this anymore. And he realized like there was more like he needed to, he needed to come out of retirement and get back to the corporate life for a little while. Cause he's been in retirement. When he came out of retirement and he stepped in, I'm not on that hamster whale, that 80 % that was literally sucking my soul, giving me thoughts I never wanted to have as a human. Mm. The business runs better. It runs more efficient. It's tighter. Everybody's showing up and Julie loves what she's doing. Like this is the thing is that like all of a sudden, if I'm letting go of control, things flourish. When I'm trying to hold onto control, I'm trying to hold on control because I want to be able for things. Like I want to be the one that helps things flourish. Right? So now I'm in this like new phase of learning that all this control I tried to have to keep everything. I have to learn to undo those habits. What I'm starting to realize as my child is now eight years old, she has acquired those habits of control. So now I'm trying to figure out tools that I can teach her to be like our team refers to her as our CEO. Like Andy said to me the other day, like, can't wait to be a parent and a CEO so I can tell people what to do. That's what she said to me. And I'm like, oh Lord, I have so much work to do on myself right now. And I need to give her the tools to not try to run the world. It's this delicate balance of like not trying to dim her light, but also wanting to snuff it out because I can't do it anymore. You know, you're like, if I like, my word, if I survive raising her, it's going to be a miracle. But I'm also like, yeah, girl, but I'm also like, if you weren't my child, I would be like cheering you on from the sideline. ah But you know what I mean? So it's all tied together, even if it going back to a parent, she sees me running the show, she wants to run the show for everybody. It's this weird balance, right? But we're also in a world where I'm like, part of me is like, don't care if you're like a little bit of a boss because you're gonna need to be, you're an only child. And uh it's an ugly world out there. my good, that is so, that's something else. I have a niece who is the boss and I am the one on the sidelines cheering her on because man, that spark within her can continue to stay lit into adulthood, she has a very bright future. Oh my goodness. I'm so excited to hear that for your daughter too. Well, what's great is, you know, she was two when we started all of this, the tree house, all of this. And she was right during COVID. So we were running a business. we say like, you know, she's getting her MBA at home. But what is interesting is seeing her evolution of how she is a part of the business. So like now I'm like, Sunday, can you come in and help me with the register? And so like she's, I mean, she's on it. She's like, "do you know about our online store? Would you like a receipt?" Like the whole thing, right? She's like start to finish. She's up standing up on a chair to do the register and she just will do the register. It's amazing the evolution from just being in our photo shoots or, on our interviews or whatever it is to where she is now. and, in a few weeks, we have a pop-up that we're doing. and I'm gonna bring her and she's gonna work the pop-up with me. ah So it's, but this is what I wanted. I wanted to... create a life and this is what entrepreneurs like that I envisioned and what I envisioned was that she was part of this creative outlet that we create. And how do I integrate her in the business as opposed to being like because I could easily be working for someone else and saying sorry mommy's working I can't do this now I'm like mommy's working but it's for us and when I'm done I'll let you know how you're involved. love that so much. When I had my son, I had already been a business owner. And so he was born into a world of mommy being an entrepreneur and daddy also being an entrepreneur. And so he's had ride alongs with us to go do different business activities. And it's just so cool to have him be incorporated and he's only two and a half, right? It's very limited in what he can do, but to just have him along for the ride is so cool. And I look forward to hopefully a future where he is involved in other activities, bigger activities where he's more capable of doing like how Andy is running the register for you. That's so cool. I imagine having your business and then having a child is a different set of challenges than what I experienced. Like I discovered us because of her. you had it established. I imagine that that is a very challenging and I'd love to hear your perspective on this, but I imagine that it's very challenging in the sense that like you have this ambition and this vision. And then I say this with all amount of respect, this bomb goes off in your life and you're just like trying to survive. And you're like, how do I reconcile this clear distinct path I was on? I'd love to just hear what that was like for you. Yeah, Sam nailed it. It definitely felt like a bomb went off, even though we wanted a child, right? We wanted him in our lives. was very much the next step for our family planning. And also it did feel like a bomb went off in our life. It felt like everything had to shift in ways that we couldn't possibly predict, no matter how many parent friends we spoke to. gathered their ideas and perspectives. We really didn't have many people in our life to reach out to who were entrepreneurs and then had children. So that perspective was missing. That's part of why I started the show, right? Because I go out into the podcast world and I'm piecing together bits of information from different sources. I have to go to specifically a business podcast or specifically a parenting podcast in order to fill in all the gaps that I just didn't know. So there was definitely a large learning curve with the actual practical parts of being a parent. How do I parent? How do I actually console this crying baby or change diapers or figure out if he's sick or not, you know, like all these things. But also there was a huge learning curve within myself. Who am I now? And that's a very common identity shift for mothers in general and dads too, in general. For me, it was like, okay, I had this very full life before I had my son. I had this very full life, right? I'm like, I'm doing all the things. I've got my different businesses. I'm living a life that I have very intentionally designed. And now, How do I incorporate this child into this world? There's no guidebook for this. There's no guidebook for parenting, period. And then there's just, I have zero idea. So I just did the best that I could, which is the best that we can do as humans, right? I used the data that I had previously, which is like, okay, I know what my business needs to bottom line survive. I'm going to go into bottom line survival mode for a while to keep it afloat while I figure out motherhood. And I have to learn how to be okay with that too. Cause that was another part of it. I'm very ambitious. I wanted big things, but that bottom line survival mode felt like giving in and it felt like giving up in a way. But in reality, that was just how things had to be for a while. And I had to be okay with that. So it was, it was a huge shift. It was crazy. Well, I think, I mean, this needs to be said more often, right? This is not what's coming across our feeds, these type of things, right? And I think like that's what's so powerful is like that right there is the perspective of like... motherhood brought me to entrepreneurship because it made me fearless. Or it's this identity crisis when you have your vision built out and now you have to reset or be more patient with yourself because it's not going to happen on the timeline in the way that you may have mapped out, right? That adaptability piece of it. But I think like that's what needs to be coming out more because that is what's going to help release the pressure on the mental health aspects of being a mother, running a business, being a partner, being a friend, I mean, being a family member. I mean, all of this stuff, like how you show up, but then most importantly, how are you showing up for yourself through all of this? And those conversations I think are lacking and need to be surfaced more because I think it would make more people more successful, frankly. sister, nailed it. That is exactly why we're here today. That is exactly why we're doing what we're doing. love this. I really greatly appreciate this conversation. I think it's incredibly important and underrated. Yep, yep, yep. I'm so glad you see the value in it too. I'm just, I'm so looking forward as of this recording date to get this out into the world and help other listeners develop strategies and confidence within themselves based on this conversation and the many other conversations that happen on this show, because I know, I know that this is helpful. I just know it. This is what people can benefit from. know, if one or two people walk away changing their perspectives, and if I had like three takeaways from like this whole thing is like, go Google Steve Harvey's jump, life changing. Ask yourself, am I swimming upstream? If so, you're going in the wrong direction. And three, you're not alone. Yes, yes, I love it. I love it, Sam. Thank you. Thank you so much. This has been a fantastic conversation. Thank you. love it and I love what you're doing. You're doing amazing things for people. Thank you, Sam.