Designing Your Legacy

Joe Broders, a founding partner at Workaday Design, shares his insights on the intersection of parenting and entrepreneurship, and how he’s been able to design a legacy.

Joe dives into his journey of balancing family life with running an architecture and interiors studio, the legacy of his family's business, and the importance of mentorship and networking. They discuss the challenges and joys of parenthood, the impact of a no-screen summer on family dynamics, and the lessons learned from navigating the chaos of family life while pursuing professional goals.

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ABOUT JOE BRODERS

Joe Broders is a founding member and Partner at Workaday Design, a full service architecture and interiors studio based in the Pacific Northwest. 

At work, he manages the studio along with 3 other founding members, and at home, he is proud to call himself “dad” of 5 children ranging from ages 3 - 10.

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LINKS

WORKADAY

https://www.workadaydesign.com

https://www.instagram.com/workadaydesign

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Chapters

• 0:00 Just Getting Started
• 0:49 Introduction to Business and Parenting
• 2:50 Joe Broders: Balancing Family and Entrepreneurship
• 6:26 Balancing Legacy with Passion
• 10:41 Managing Multiple Offices & Teams
• 13:29 Structuring the Company
• 15:30 Networking and Mentorship in Business
• 18:58 The Time Warp of Raising Children
• 20:36 The Power of Just Getting Started
• 22:26 Ad - Build Safe Escrow to Protect Your Remodel or Construction Funds
• 23:28 When is the Best Time to Start a Family?
• 25:01 Navigating Family Life and Business Challenges
• 27:50 Creating a Loving Home Environment
• 28:50 Embracing the Chaos of Parenthood
• 32:07 Refining Processes in Business and Family Life
• 35:01 To Screentime or Not to Screentime?
• 36:53 Kids' Mischief
• 40:15 Find Workaday on their website or Instagram @workadaydesign
• 41:05 Outro

Transcript

0:00

getting started is the hardest part, like just being like, okay, I need a house. I need this. I need that. And at the time the housing market, which is always nuts, had just started going crazy in Portland. So we couldn't afford anything. Like there was nothing we could do. And then Judy, we're talking to her and she's this little southern lady with a draw. And she was basically just like, they just need a drawer to sleep in. That's all they need. Like, don't worry about it. Just get started. You don't need the house. You don't need the car. You don't need all that stuff. Just get it done. that. And look where we are now. In this beautiful house on a lake. You're just kind of like Okay, yeah, whether you have the beautiful house on the lake or not, you have the kids and that's the most important part. they're not going to know the difference between a queen size bed and that drawer, but they'll know they got parents that love them and you're spending time with them. Welcome back to the bringing up business podcast where we talk about business and parenting. Whether you have an idea for a business, you already have a business and you're planning your family, or you want to upgrade your existing business and family situation, our goal is to empower you with strategies and confidence. If this is your first time here, thanks for joining us. I am your host, Kaila Sachse, owner of marketing and creative agency called Yumari Digital. Yumari Digital specializes in websites, email marketing, and branding to help small businesses establish themselves and grow. I am also a mom of a toddler who is, he's so cool. Today I took him to the dentist and he was actually down with the dentist brushing his teeth. Like it was such a proud mama moment and it was extra sweet because his dentist is also my cousin. So that was just, it was overall a really pleasant visit. which I'll tell you was a huge 180 from his very first visit. That was like trying to battle a honey badger. So very excited about today. And I share all this because not only am I a proud mom of my kid, but also I want to note how much things can change in such a short amount of time. It's a great reminder that when parenting feels hard or even business feels hard, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. It's all temporary. Anyway, switching gears, I'd like to introduce today's guest, Joe Broders. Joe is a founding member and partner at Workaday Design. Workaday is a full-service architecture and interior studio based in the Pacific Northwest. At work, Joe manages the studio along with three other founding members. Meanwhile, at home, he is proud to call himself dad of five children. ranging from ages three to 10 years old. Joe, I'm so glad you could join me today and welcome to the show. Thank you so much. Yeah, happy to be here. Yeah, I've been excited to chat. So first, let's talk about your parenting and entrepreneurial journey. Which came first for you? Having a kid or starting your own firm? Having a kid came first. Yeah, so I always knew that eventually the business would Fall into place like that's always been like kind of ingrained in me. My dad owned his own business growing up and so I knew Having a design firm and owning a business would be something that I wanted to do on my own at some point But the kid definitely was more of a priority than that. So Vivi was our first And that was a decade ago now, which is nuts. But yeah, it was in the process of starting the new business. So both of those kind of happened over a couple of years, sort of simultaneously. Like I always had side gig work and stuff like that going on. But Zach, my partner who's out in Kalispell, he and I were working together and doing a lot more side gigs and Workaday kind of organically. grew out of that. And yeah, I think I was two kids deep at the point where we actually started working it. So how old was your youngest kid when you and Zach started Workaday? think she was two. I think she was two years old, maybe three. It was kind of a blurry line going into that just because we were doing side gigs together. And that's when Jason and Laura, my partners in Portland, got involved. And then the four of us officially launched Workaday together. we were, and I had been working for a while up to that point. And he had finally jumped ship and went out and was working on his own where then I was pretty soon to follow him. And then we all sort of transitioned into working at Workaday I then also bought a small business that my dad started. It's a commercial door and hardware company that I was given the opportunity to run and My sister is also one of my partners on that one too. yeah, it's just one of those side hustle things that you do. like, that's a great opportunity. Let's keep it going. And it's also been a big joy. Now was that business the same business that your dad had started and worked in when you were a kid or was that, was he working on something else? Yeah? Yeah. No, and similar to like the weird blurriness of Workaday starting, it was the same thing for him. Like he knew he wanted to do his own thing. And he always kind of jokes about like when he was looking at whatever job he was going to get, there was an ad for a florist and an ad for a guy that sold doors, frames and hardware. And he picked the doors, frames and hardware one where he was like You know, I knew I was going to start a business at some point and it was probably going to be whatever I learned from whatever business I went with. And he's like, so you could have flipped a coin and we would have been florists. Which he's creative. He would have been great at, but I think doors fit him a little better. it sounds like you might have gotten that creative gene from him then, right? Yeah, yeah, he loves to draw and he's a pretty creative guy. so, yeah, yeah, it's in there on his side, think somewhere. Yeah, that must have been really cool to watch your dad do his own thing and have his own business. And then eventually you get the opportunity with your sister to take over that business. That must feel really cool. Like there's like a little bit of a legacy there or maybe not. Correct me if I'm wrong. no, it's great. Yeah. I mean, that's the whole reason. Really. I mean, on the architecture side, that is my passion. I love design. I love architecture. And it's something I'm to do until the day I die. But the the business is one of those things where it just was sort of a right place, right time. I went to college to get an architecture degree to come back and take over my dad's door business. So that had always been baked into the calculus was to do that. I didn't know how much I would love architecture and that it just became an absolute passion being able to do that through college. And so right when I got out of school, my dad didn't have enough work to bring me back on. my sister had just come back and started working for him, but she was only part time and there just wasn't enough to go around. and I was fine with it because I was you know what? I love architecture. I'm going to go do that. And at that point I had realized like I wanted to do both and I wanted to do architecture on my own and have that be its own thing as well. And, just being able to have both opportunities and capitalize on them has been. Huge and having partners that are willing to deal with, the stress of me, running this other business, but then also coming back and, and doing work on the architecture side has been an absolute massive blessing in our lives. It's been really, really cool. Absolutely. It sounds like that was such a smooth path. Ultimately, you receive this opportunity to go study what you end up loving, and then you get to work in that field. And then you also get to work within your family legacy business. So it is really cool to have the best of both worlds. get to spend the last several years of his working years with him in the same office and with my sister But when my dad was transitioning out, he came to me and was like, do you still want to do this? Is this something you'd be interested in? And it was right around the time that we were officially going and starting Workaday. And so it was... It's interesting, like that is much more of a legacy and a company that I'm trying to keep going and an opportunity that I've been given to be more of a business owner on that side, where Workaday is more the thing that I'm passionate about and building and that I enjoy working in the most, like just from a nuts and bolts perspective. I enjoy the building of the company and how you create an org chart, you plug in the right people, you figure out a process. That is a lot of fun. And I've been able to learn a ton from that on the door business side so that once I focus back on architecture more from like a company perspective, growing that will be a lot more interesting because I enjoy just doing the architecture side and didn't ever really want employees, but the The door business side has changed my perspective on that completely. The lessons that I've learned there has showed me that like, okay, it would be also a lot of fun to do that on the architecture side as well, where I just selfishly was like, you know what? I want to be the one drawing every little detail and doing all this stuff and meeting with all the clients and managing those relationships. And it was just super rewarding and I still want to do that forever, but. There is something also that's so fun about building a business and having employees and having partners and trying to work through stuff with them. And we all kind of run independent offices under the same banner. And so we're all sort of a different phase in that process. And so it's, it's been really unique and really cool to be able to, to be a part of that. is interesting. So how many offices do you have currently? So there's technically three offices. There's Kalispell and in Kalispell we have two employees that work under Zach. And then we have Jason and Laura in a little storefront in Portland where they run a shop called Daygoods that the front of the business is just a little shop that they rotate through bespoke housewares and art that's really cool and local to the Portland area. And then they have their offices in the back. And then I run my office here in Vancouver, Washington, where I do my architecture and the door business in the same office currently. And we're in a cool storefront space now where eventually I'm going to totally remodel it and have it be sort of a tandem workspace. But right now it's a little bit Spartan. How fun. do the four of you as partners, have say in each other's offices and how that all works or how do you manage the upper levels of business together? Like what does that look like? we do have some say, but more from like a consulting standpoint of like, I think that's a good idea or I don't think that's a good idea. the way we have it structured is so that the, offices kind of run independently from like a financial perspective. Like we have some shared costs in terms of like our programming and our servers. and things like that, but any overhead that we incur is our own burden, if that makes sense. And we run our own projects. And so in running your own project, it is more sort of a project-based accounting where you're independently bringing in a revenue stream that's tied directly to then what you're going to be producing and doing. We do have a little bit of crossover with our employees out in Kalispell. where if you're managing a project and they're working on it, then we have sort of like a profit sharing built into that. yeah, it's actually worked out really well. And we all have unique talents within our group. so being able to share in that and doing design shreds together, we meet every week on Monday mornings and talk through what we're doing and what projects we're working on and what direction we're going. Yeah, it's. Sounds. Probably a little weird because it is a business that we're thinking about constantly, but it has been really easy so far. mean, maybe I'm the only one that feels that way. Like there is obviously stress and growth and everything else built into it. But in terms of like how bad a partnership could go, like we all came in with sort of a similar understanding of this is a fluid thing that we're doing together. And we've stayed really true to that. And then we also are set up so that we bring in people. one of the big ethos of our company when we started it was that we wanted to be a platform to help others start their own businesses. And so one of our employees was kind of a. Like we were working with her on contract and trying to be a platform where she could get enough work, where we're giving her what we could partner with her on and we couldn't get to ourselves, but we had. made a commitment to take this stuff on in the event that, hey, you could go and do your own company and start your own thing and here's the blueprint to do it. And she just came to us one day and was like, you know, I think I'd rather just be your employee. And so then we, that was a big moment for us, because then we all had to be like, well, that really wasn't in the cards, but do we want to structure it that way? Like, how does that look? And so there's push and pull and like a lot of meetings to figure out what that looks like. And we've had other people that have come to us and wanted to be like an official part of it. And we've had to say, it's just not the right fit. we, think you're really, really great to work with, but we want you to be on your own and we want you to be out there as your own entity. And this isn't meant to be a hundred person firm or a 50 person firm. This is a different thing. we fall into like this weird little niche of, we're not necessarily trying to become this massive. multi-state conglomerate, but we do have a big presence, a large footprint over the Northwest and even into the Rockies that we've been able to work all over the place has been really cool because we have a really interesting network of people that we work with. There's a studio called Peak LLC that runs very similarly where they have offices in Montana, Oregon, and Washington. And I met with them quite a bit when we were thinking about starting Workaday about how they were structured, how their go to business strategy was, what their marketing strategy was like. And so we've, we followed their blueprint quite a bit and they were really excited that somebody was interested in their business model. and yeah, it's worked out so far. Really good. like it. And it was brilliant to look to other businesses in this case, Peak LLC and say, okay, we like what they're doing. How are they doing it? And diving into the nitty gritty of their business model and their whole structure. That was brilliant because at the end of the day, success leaves clues, right? we do have the ability to learn from others and how they are succeeding. as long as we are willing to ask and put ourselves out there and get that mentorship. Well, if there's one talent I have, it's being able to put my foot in my mouth and ask some very dumb questions. that, you know, I just don't have much of a filter when it comes to that. mean, my wife's family is from Fort Benton, Montana, and one of those partners is in Fort Benton. But I had been following these guys from afar. I first learned of them because one of the guys from Bend, Oregon had come and been an adjunct professor for a design studio while was in college. And I loved their work, thought they were doing really cool stuff, then got into their business structure and was like, wow, this is really interesting and cool the way they have this structured. And so one of the guys was in Fort Benton. My wife and I had just I think she was pregnant with VD at the time. I get to town. Everyone that finds out I'm an architect is like, Oh, have you met Keith? He's the one that built that weird house down in town. I'm like, yeah, there's like a cool modern house down there. No, I haven't met him. And then it comes out that he's one of the partners of Peak. one of the people at the coffee shop in town gave me his number and I texted him and was like, Hey Keith, would you mind if I took you to breakfast and just picked your brain for one of the days this week. And he's like, oh yeah, I'd love to. And we ended up spending half a day together. it ended up, like breakfast turned into lunch, which turned into the afternoon. And he just laid it all out, was talking to me about everything, about starting the business, how they work together, what his journey was. And then he's been a great mentor and somebody that I've been able to poke several times since. You just say, hey, how did you navigate this? What does this look like? How do you guys handle these types of contracts? So yeah, he's been a... an awesome resource, but just could have fallen totally flat. yeah, it could have, it could have. But I think the coolest part is that you were willing to send that text anyway and say, hey, like, I'm gonna put myself out there. He could say no, right? Or he could say yes. He could say yes. And sure enough, he did. There is power in that too, right? Having a small community. uh Yep. And you know, I'm also taking away too that it's important to nourish your network, right? Take care of the relationships around you. Maintain those bridges with other people because at the end of the day, like, who knows who knows who, right? Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's definitely something I could get a lot better at, because that's one thing where if it's not in my focus and I never forget anybody, but it's like, oh, shoot, it's been two years since I've talked to you. Oh, dang it. Well, we got to get together. yeah, that is, you know, running having a big family, running the businesses, doing all that kind of stuff. It's like that's where time flies like that. That whole saying I didn't quite understand until recently. Like it now feels like we're in a weird little like time warp. But with kids, it's like you're making so many memories so consistently and doing so many things. It's like a year feels like it's 10 years long and 10 minutes long all at the same time. It's wild. And yet like being able to be like, just look back and be like, I can't remember life without kids like that is. uh Well, now it's a decade ago, but it seems like a lifetime ago at this point that there weren't kids in the mix. So wild. So that reminds me when when my my son was an infant and you know how when they're babies you have to it feels like you have to go to the the their doctor every like two seconds right for a checkup right there. They're so often and I swear every every checkup for the first like six checkups the the doctor would say the same thing. He'd be like "and remember the nights are long but the years are short." At first we're like, wow, that's so like, wow, that's fresh. Like, what does that mean? And then by the sixth visit, we're like, yeah, feeling that. It's so true. It's good, right? So tell me, what was it like when you... and your wife were planning out your family? Was there any sort of nerves going on there? any fears about the future or concerns or what was going through your mind if you could remember? You know, yeah, I mean, there's there's always been concerns. I had one of, he's a client but also a family friend. And at the time when we were just thinking about having a family, I was working on a remodel for him At the time didn't know me super well. And I was just sort of lamenting like, man, how do you? What do you do? Like we're living in this tiny apartment in Portland. We want to get our family started. We both knew that we wanted five kids going into it. Like that was, you know, the goal. Like the beginning was like, okay, we'll have three and then we'll pause and see, what happens. And once we started having them, we're just like, okay, we're going all the way to five. but yeah, like getting started is the hardest part, like just being like, okay, I need a house. I need this. I need that. And at the time the housing market, which is always nuts, had just started going crazy in Portland. So we couldn't afford anything. Like there was nothing we could do. And then Judy, we're talking to her and she's this little southern lady with a draw. And she was basically just like, they just need a drawer to sleep in. That's all they need. Like, don't worry about it. Just get started. You don't need the house. You don't need the car. You don't need all that stuff. Just get it done. Like we didn't we didn't care about that. And look where we are now. In this beautiful house on a lake. You're just kind of like Okay, yeah, whether you have the beautiful house on the lake or not, you have the kids and that's the most important part. And they're not going to know the difference between a queen size bed and that drawer, but they'll know they got parents that love them and you're spending time with them. And so at that point, we're like, all right, let's get started. we really were like, okay, do we start after we start the business? Do we go on like an adventure for a couple of years? move somewhere together that we've always wanted to go or like, what are our priorities? Like, what are we? What are we going to do? And yes, there was there was worry, I guess. About the timing, not necessarily worry about if we were going to do it or not, because we knew that we definitely wanted kids and that that was it was just figuring out the timing and. When is that right? Which I think a lot of people struggle with like that. that question because you do feel like, look at what my parents have. I feel like I have to have all these ducks in a row and get this all figured out before we have kids. And, at that point, the years are going fast, too, but you don't realize it. But you're just not making those memories. And my 20s went way faster than my 30s with having kids. was. Yeah. Looking back at that, it's like, man, I should have started way sooner. Like, I feel like I. You know, retroactively missed out on so much, but it's like, no, it all happened in the right timing. We're good. Like it. I don't know. It sounds like there was a bit of faith leaning into that. like faith, like it's gonna work out. Judy's advice was solid. At the end of the day, a kid just needs some love, right? The kid doesn't care about where they're sleeping, you know? If anything, it adds a little spice to the story later on that they get to tell, you know, about their upgrading. Yeah, yeah. sure, for sure. Yeah, and these kids have to deal with a lot of it too. I have a tendency to jump before I look, and Caitlin is very trusting my wife in that like, he's got to figure it out like this is going to be fine and some things are and some things definitely are not. So in in the meantime, while starting the business going. back and taking over and building the door business. And I was in the middle of also building a house that I had designed. so doing all those things and doing that all at the same time, it's like something's got to get. So the timeline between us starting that construction project, actually moving into that house took three years where it should have taken like a year. And we were living with my mom at the time and on her good grace, which was which was great. I mean, it was awesome. It was built in daycare. It was super close to the job site, you know, but with Haley being a stay at home mom, that's like awkward. You know, it's like, well, I'm in someone else's house all day. That's not ideal. And that, you know, that was one of the things where it's like, okay, I, I know that I can bite off way more than I can chew. And so now we just need to be more cognizant of that. And so we were really, really blessed to been able to build that house and then sell it a few years ago for a profit that I'd never even imagined would be possible so that we could go move out into the country and have some property and an old farmhouse. it's just totally different, like living on this little postage stamp in downtown Vancouver in a cool house. the house was awesome. I would live in the house in a heartbeat again, but now we just actually have a yard, which is great. Yep, completely get that. We're currently in a two bedroom. And so one bedroom is our designated home office. That's where I'm recording right now. Yeah. Which means the other bedroom is everybody's bedroom. So it's like, that feels cramped. We also have just a one car garage, but we have more than one vehicle. So it's just like... It just feels so tight and cramped and it is a little bit of an awkward transition, but we trust that there is going to be that next move and the expansion and just believing in the process, you know? Oh, yeah, yeah. And you're going to cherish all of those moments. You know, it's like Vivi and Caitlin and I shared the same room for a year. And then then Briscoe came along and Vivi got her own little room and then Briscoe's in our room forever. And then, you know, it was just all of us living on top of each other. So now, like we have a house that has more than enough, not more than enough, enough space for everybody. But the kids still all want to sleep together. They still all want to sleep with us. And it's just, you know, the nights are long, but the days are short like that. But we're just trying to take advantage of it. It's like, OK, yeah, we're, you know, it can get a little too rambunctious and like the kids can be a little bit of a pill. So everyone has their own bed. And it's like, OK, everybody's sleeping in their own beds tonight. And then they're crying and they're upset. But I just want to sleep with Vivi or I want, you know, like they just love each other so much. And there's like this beautiful thing to see them at each other's throats like. basically treat each other as their worst enemies during the day and knowing, well, tonight you're going to be begging to go read together and fall asleep together. And it's just like, you guys love each other. Just give each other a hug. Get over it. Because tonight you're going to be doing it anyway. That is so, that's so beautiful. It really does speak to the love that you and Caitlin have been able to cultivate within your household. Oh, yeah. It's but a loving home. It's great. It's great. mean, right now they're in kind of a making a mess everywhere and not cleaning up after it mode. But The 10 year old and a nine year old, they are great. They can do chores. They keep things clean. But then dealing with the younger three. man. Like a three year old can make a mess and so fast. And so it's just like everything they clean is immediately messed up and then just like, I can't keep up with this. They like, yeah, I know. Neither can we. It's this we're all in the same boat together, guys. Let's just all do this. everybody, let's go clean up and make it so we can go camping this weekend or go do something fun. But I do feel like we've been cleaning up more messes than ever. It's like, just be like, okay, we want to clean house that may not be a reality that we get for another few years. my gosh, that is like poking at one of my discomforts. Like I like orderliness. It helps my brain feel calm. And I'm sure that's like a normal human thing, but it's especially true for me. And so yeah, when I see my two and a half year old start to make his messes, which they really do happen so fast. Like how can so much destruction happen in such a short amount of time? Like it's crazy. instead of cards, it's just rubbish and it just comes out of their arms and their sleeves and under their hat. They just keep it everywhere. Yeah. oh to make so much mess. It's, and I'm like grappling with like, okay, do I teach him how to clean up this stuff? Which obviously like, yes, he does need to learn that. And also at what point do I just let it go and let it be messy for a bit? Like, how do I balance this? Yeah, I mean, I am very, very good at dealing with a mess like a mess does not bug me too much. It bugs bugs, Caitlin, quite a bit. And it's funny to see the kids that it bugs like they, you know, they want order and they want neatness. And with Cooper and Peter, my youngest two boys, like five and three, those dudes are just human wrecking balls. Like they just absolutely destroy everything in their way in their wake. And you're like, why did why are there clothes in the living room? he's naked. He's outside. What is happening? But it's like immediately. This is just like there's a bag of chips, Pokemon cards, clothing, and he's out to the next thing and making more of a mess somewhere else. But yeah, that that desire to like have order in the chaos can drive you up a wall like like I say, I do well with a mess. Even I am stretched when I get home and I'm just like, nothing is ever clean. This is crazy. And then Caitlin was like, I'm going to start taking photos because I had the kids clean the house. I clean the house. Everything five minutes before you got home was perfect. And then I started making dinner and it all got destroyed. Yeah, I believe it. Once you've seen the magic happen in real time, it's like, yeah, I totally get that. So for anybody listening, if you are looking to start a family, just expect mess. It's going to happen. Yeah. get comfortable in the mess, for sure. For sure, just make your own little, it's like a pop-a-zond chair of mess. And that's such a good metaphor for parenthood as a whole, but also business as a whole too, right? Sometimes you're attempting to go after this specific venture or project or outcome and it just doesn't work out the way that it's supposed to. Or the process in getting to that outcome is more convoluted than you expected. And that's just kind of, that's just how it goes. Yeah, yeah, you just got to be comfortable with it and refining that process. And that's been one thing with the door business this last year has been all about refining our process and like having all the salespeople talk the same language and do the same thing where on the architecture side, that's a little bit easier because it's easier to create templates. It's easier to know like how to deal with a client and what you're doing It's a little bit more simplified. yeah, trying to clean up that mess and being comfortable with the mess until you get to that refinement and getting to that process can be trying, but it's incredibly rewarding if you just let it happen. You're gonna develop procedures that everyone's bought into. And they're going to think of things that you never thought of. Like, I'm no genius. I don't hold all the answers. But these guys do this day in and day out. They they definitely know a better way to do this and just being open to it and being like, OK, yeah, we can make this messy for a little bit and then we'll just clean the room, get back on track. And we just added something new to it. And it's yeah, it's pretty it's pretty cool trying to get the kids to do that. Man, that's tough. there's no standard operating procedure for kids. chores and try to be like, all right, how do I get this done in a timely fashion and actually, you know, go work on this car, go do something. It's like, man, I don't want the TV to be the main thing that it's like, you know, right now I have two boys watching the TV so that they're not knocking on my door. Where there was a summer we did a, I was shocked. I was absolutely shocked when I came home and Caitlin was like, we are going to try a no screen summer. And I'm like, well, I'm fine with that because when I get home, I don't like them on any screens. It's like a movie night or something because we're to go play. We're going to do something. And I'm like, OK, if you can, if you want to do that, I will support you in it and anything you want to do. if you try to do nuts for the first month, but you want to stick to it and you just have to, hand off and go to the goodwill and like, recharge or do something, get out. That's fine. Like we can do that. but yeah, it ended up going so well. There was three weeks of it being super dicey. But then the older kids, they know how to read or reading to the younger kids. They were playing outside a lot more. We had a Lego Renaissance in our house of everybody. We were like we were to the point we have so many Legos like, do we just give these to someone else and donate. The kids don't ever play with them. And it's like that's all they want to do now is draw, play with Legos, be outside building stuff. It was really, really cool to see. And their moods just all stabilized. It was easier to get them to go to bed. They were way more compliant when it came to like doing chores or helping clean up and a lot. And there was some gnashing of teeth for sure, but it wasn't all like rainbows and sparkles, but it was way better than I thought it was gonna be. So now we're trying to go into the school year and maintain it. And it's like, we've already failed so many times. It's like the TV is the crutch. It's a great crutch. It definitely does help with getting certain tasks done where like you don't want a kid pulling at your pants trying to like, you know, take you into the other room and go hang out and play. Like you gotta get the tasks done. Like for me, my kid will not let me do dishes. He just won't. He refuses. It's like, okay, well, Miss Rachel. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. I'm like, kid, get it together. It is time. You're old enough. You've got the motor skills. in which he could help and be a part of it. Vivi was like that. She loved doing dishes, which you like now it's a little bit more of a fight to get her to do it it's a real chore. But when she was growing up and she was really young, like three, four years old, she just wanted to be in the mix and a part of everything that we were doing. And so Caitlin was always really good about like if she was cooking or doing any of that kind of stuff, she would always set up a little thing for Vivi to be working on and doing. something with her and it was just so sweet to watch and our girls we two girls and three boys with the girls they were really good at that they have patience and they're calm and the boys are nuts they just seek destruction and I don't think they mean to but then that becomes the funnest the funnest end goal is okay I've played with this flour and sugar for a while now how much of it can I get all over the house can I cover a couch we'll see I bet I can. My kid is the exact same way. He's like, I call him, I used to call him Honey Badger because he was just so like, he was so gnarly. Like he just, wants to break everything and be as loud about it as possible. Like there's no, there's no vacuum for that kid. Like he is, he just has to put it out there. Well, you said he's three, right? He's about to be three that's when that's when they begin like they want to destroy everything, but they also have no self preservation at all. And so it's like jumping off of the highest point they can get to like off the dining room table. My three year old is currently I'm sure right now, but he might be because I'm not in there. But, he that's his thing. I was like, yeah, watch me jump off of this. And he just finds the tallest thing and goes and jumps off it. And he usually beats you to the top of it before you can get to him and tell him it's a bad idea. And so it's luckily we have not had to go to the emergency room for him. But all the boys hit this point where it's just like, and now I'm to try to kill myself. You're so, dude, no, you can't like that. The back of the couch is not a toy. You can't jump off of that. The floor is hard. It's crazy. you dead in your eye as he's doing it too. Like, yeah. Yep. yeah. in the backyard and him and Cooper, the five year old and the three year old dug this hole and I get home and I'm like, guys, what is this? And they're on their little bikes and they're like, we built a bike jump. They're like, that's a hole. That's not a bike jump. And it's big enough that they can fit their front tire. And this thing's like a good eight to 10 inches deep and like in circumference, maybe 18 inches. Like it's a decent hole. Yeah, yeah. so I'm like, OK, show me what you can do. And so Peter, on his little Strider bike, just gets as much speed as he can, dumps the front end into it and just endos straight over his handlebars into the dirt and gets up and it's like, looks back at it like, don't know, it was supposed to be a jump. I don't know how I fell off my bike. That wasn't supposed to happen. So he gets up, picks up his bike. And if you saw any other kid do it, they'd be like tears, crying. but he's banged up but willing to try again. And so then he goes to the other side and it's like headed towards like this little deck gazebo thing we have. And I have to stop him like, no, you can't go this way because you're gonna do the exact same thing. You're gonna fly four feet off your bike and onto pavement or a column or something. You're gonna hit into structure. And he's just like, nah, it didn't work the other way. I just hit it wrong. Like I just have to hit it again. oh Thank God Cooper had to wear a thal to see him do that the first time and go, yeah, this is not a jump. We dug a hole. We miscalculated something there. Exactly. Look, I know when you built us bike jumps, we saw you digging a lot, but you built the jump. so now, yeah, he quickly realized as Peter was going through the air that, we've made a mistake. The plan's way off. Yeah. Yep. I'm crying, my God, that's so funny. Joe, this was way too much fun. Thank you so much for sharing all of your gems with us and your hilarious stories. Where can people find you if they have questions about Workaday or the restoration business or just in general? Workadaydesign.com is our website. Instagram is usually the best way to get a hold of us. Yep, yep, just workadaydesign. That's it. I saw it earlier today and it is so pretty. There are so many pretty things. you guys make beautiful things. You're nailing it. I appreciate that. It's a labor of love. I can tell. I can absolutely tell you're passionate And yeah, everybody please check out their Instagram. Beautiful. If you have any questions for Joe, you know where to find him. And yeah, over and out. Thank you, Joe, for your time. so much. We'll talk to you soon. Bye.