Your Marketing Efforts Are Useless Without THIS

Exploring the critical role of branding, effective marketing strategies, and developing a sustainably-run business for entrepreneurs balancing work and family with Helen Young, founder of EnZed Design.

Helen shares her 30+ years of experience, practical tips, and inspiring stories to help small business owners grow with clarity and confidence.

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TAKEAWAYS

• Helen Young’s journey from corporate roles to founding her own branding agency
• Why a strong brand is essential for new and existing businesses
• The importance of brand consistency across all assets
• How storytelling and empathy deepen market understanding
• Practical questions to better understand your customer and market
• The concept of brand guidelines as a foundation for marketing and hiring
• The risks of relying solely on AI tools without brand expertise
• Strategies for diversifying media and avoiding one-channel dependency
• Lessons from business setbacks and the importance of adaptability
• How to start with professional consultations and DIY branding tips
• The future of AI in branding, design, and content creation
• Helen’s advice for new entrepreneurs and harnessing longevity in business

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ABOUT HELEN C. YOUNG

For Helen Young of EnZed Design, the sweet spot of design is that point where curiosity, creativity, and true collaboration meet. It’s the artistic adventure that begins with “What if we…?” then follows a consciously guided course through optimal outcomes, legitimate concerns, and competitive considerations. It’s the path this university-trained graphic designer has been following since leaving the confines of big agencies in Chicago and Denver, and her portfolio is colorful evidence that it works.

There’s the logo-diamond wallpaper design for the Denny’s wedding chapel in Las Vegas and the room-wrapping surface art that evolved from a client’s request to make a 1915 flywheel engine the centerpiece of their building and branding. There are heartfelt publications for Children’s Hospital Colorado and CUHealth Cancer Center. There’s the marketing curriculum designed to teach students to promote healthy school l

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Transcript

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if startups start, they obviously are going to have a financial plan, a business plan. They should also have a marketing plan, because if no one knows about you, doesn't really matter about the rest. Welcome back to the bringing up business podcast, where we talk about raising a business and a family. If you're a business owner who wants to scale while showing up for your kids, you are in the right place. I am your host, Kaila Sachse, toddler mom and owner of a marketing agency called Yumari Digital. Yumari Digital supports small businesses with websites and marketing so entrepreneurs can focus on what they do best. On today's episode. We have the honor of chatting with a creative leader whose large scale public campaigns and environmental branding spans industries and continents. Her work begins with the question, "what if we..." and follows a conscious path through strategy, roadblocks and meaningful outcomes. Introducing Helen Young, founder of EnZed Design. Helen, I'm so excited to have you here and welcome to the show. Thank you, I'm excited to be here and have a nice chat. Yes, I've been looking forward. So let's dive in. From your 30 years of experience, why is branding important for new or existing businesses? Why does it even matter? Yeah, well, it matters for a lot of reasons. One is that your business needs to have a personality and the brand can express that. And not the surface personality that we think of, but more of the depth of explaining visually what you do and where you're positioned in your industry. So that's really important. And even right out of the gate for an entrepreneur who, you they're in do-it-yourself mode. It's still really important to make sure that your brand at the very beginning reflects well what you do now and has the ability to grow with you into what you will be doing in five years, 10 years, 50 years. And of course there's going to be refreshes throughout those decades, but you really have to start by thinking about how you want to show up to your potential clients and vendors right from the beginning. Hmm, that makes complete sense. I think of branding almost as choosing your outfit, right? Say if you're going to present in front of a large crowd, you're going to put on a certain outfit. Whereas if you're going out for drinks with your friends, that's a different outfit. so it sounds like a huge part of branding is understanding your audience and who you are showing up for and how you can best present for them. that? Yeah, for sure. And I think it's also understanding your business. And I know that sounds kind of weird because it's your business. But what happens, I've seen through with the branding process when the client is really involved is that we do as part of discovery for me to understand the client's business. We do a deep dive into what exactly they do, how it's organized. And then that helps the client see through an outsider's eyes what might be considered like the most important thing, whereas they might've presented it with a different emphasis. And so the branding process really helps them see like what are the features and the benefits and focus on the benefits to the person that's ultimately going to use their service or product. That makes sense. That reminds me of something I heard this morning. was Guy Kawasaki on the Marketing Team of One podcast. And he talks about how a business should eat their own dog food. he, right. It sounds, it sounds kind of silly, but it, it's so true. It's so there was a, there was a company who was selling to people with asthma and What they ended up doing was they instructed the team to breathe through straws. And it's not exactly the same as having asthma, but that helped the team better empathize with the consumer. The consumer has asthma, so this is what it could be like. And so this is how we can better tailor the product. And that was on a product level, but that can also apply to branding and marketing on a larger level too. Yeah, absolutely. I that's actually a really good example because it's such a tangible example. And I think products are almost easier for clients to get their head around branding and marketing because it solves a direct problem. Like the use of it creates something for the person that buys it and uses it, right? But for a service, that maybe is in a competitive field in particular. I think that's where it's harder for them to back up and see why would somebody come to you and what are the different problems and also so many different types of reasons, right? Like different problems to solve or different like perspectives from their their consumer or their client that they have to think through. So, to your point, market research is basically kind of what they were doing there. I mean, they weren't asking asthmatics to to talk about what they go through, but they were experiencing it for themselves. And I think any time you can get into somebody's shoes and empathize with what they might be doing or what they might be needing is a really critical part of creating your marketing plan and strategy. Yeah, absolutely. What are some questions that the business owner could ask themselves to better understand their consumer? if they can back up and walk through the day of their consumer. So, if the consumer is choosing a service, what has prompted them to come and need this service? And what has prompted them to come and seek them specifically out for the service? So What I think they could do is what I've done for clients before is create fake bios of people who might buy their product. like all the way down to, what their age is, what they do on the weekends, what their day was like today, that kind of thing. And then they have maybe five or six of them from all different walks of life. And then they can completely visualize, well, if I was walking, it's almost like experience mapping, right? Like if I was walking through this life and I had two toddlers I was trying to get to into the car and happy and la la, and then I had to go off and do this other thing, what would that be like? It would not be streamlined. You know, it would, yeah, yeah. very difficult. I have 1 toddler. I can only imagine two. no. Right? Right? So, you know, that you've got to get in the mind of like, where their headspace is. And to do that, I think you really have to follow them, through through their decision making. What are their obstacles? What are their, hopes and dreams for? I know that's kind of, you know, out there, but like, you know, the idea of what does it want to solve for them? What do they why do they need it? Why do they want it? You know? Yeah. So I think, you know, creating some fake bios and just walking through those steps of getting into their mind would be great. And also if you can do it, actual market research is always a good thing. What does actual market research entail? there's wide range, but it can be from getting your end user to give you feedback on how they like the product if they're already a customer, or it could be industry-based questions that ask them how they use something or how they think about something. I haven't done a ton of market research for my clients, but I've done some and I've also done a lot of taking surveys because I like to see how they're asking things, so that anything I experienced myself, I could maybe bring to a client. And so I do that with like, my university has one that I'm constantly, they want me to follow up and follow up. asking about graduates and from the art program there and how they're doing and how they're seeing AI and all the things, but anyway, so I take those because it helps me understand, how other people do the market research so that I can help my clients guide them a little bit. But it can also be something pretty simple. Like you maybe reach out to your, if you're, if you're smaller company, you don't have like vast amounts of clients. You could reach out to them and and ask them to tell you um what's going on and what they need and check in with them. And they're usually very willing because it's going to benefit them in the end to share what they want. Because if you implement it and they love working with you, then they will be better off for giving you their opinion. Such a good piece of advice, reach out to the people who are directly your customer, directly your consumer first, because you already have that rapport. And then if you need to expand out to the GP, the general public for their input and yeah. oh, what kind of incentives? if it's your client and you're close, you work together a lot, so just a lunch or whatever, right? Something a little more informal. Or if it's a wider spread one, a little gift card, even if it's five bucks or even something just really simple, that I think is a really nice thank you for their time. Showing your customer or your client or your colleague that you appreciate them. Yeah. a customer. I think ones that maybe are more broad, maybe they're entered into, you know, a drawing for something bigger. So it's not quite the big expense of having five, five dollar gift cards go out to, you know, a hundred thousand people. But you also have to keep in mind, surveys are going to have a low percentage of, you know, like direct mail, if it's not really tailored to your audience. It's more of a broad reach. It's going to have like a 2 % or 3 % return direct mail. And I'm sure surveys are the same, although we could look that stat up. yeah, that's a really important point. We don't want to just ask everybody and anybody for their input. We really want to dial in on a specific demographic, age range, geo location, et cetera, et cetera, to get a more refined response. Yeah, one that's more valuable, right? It's like that old saying in marketing, if your audience is everyone, your audience is no one. yeah, say that again sister. That's so real. And you know, you get that a lot, even with really experienced marketers where they do say it's everyone. like, I don't really think it is.(laughter) But yeah, and that's how you dig deeper and find out who it really is. Yeah. And it can be a broad spectrum, but it doesn't, that still is not everyone. Brilliant, brilliant, so true, so true. let's break down branding. What actually goes into it? What is a brand? Yeah, so a brand is the name of a company. So there's naming involved. And that is actually kind of a critical part because you're going to live with that as long as you possibly can. You really don't want to change your name. unless there's some very specific circumstance, then it is a logo or a mark. And that can be in the form of a visual, a typography treatment. And then there's a tagline and that would be your really basic level positioning line that tells people exactly what you do if your name doesn't, or if your name is really obvious like mile high tree cutting service Then it tells them why you're better. So that's that's the basic things a name a logo a tagline very much the first part of your brand, but that's not all. um So just like Insey Knives, there's more. um Yeah, no, but then there's also your colors, which I think most people are really familiar with, the signature color. And there can be a signature color, but there can also be a signature palette, right, so that you have a lot of options for keeping your brand alive across multiple media. And then there's also tone, like how do you show up? Who are you? That's your personality in a way. And so are you Casper the friendly ghost? Are you all business and very like top, bleeding edge technology? There's a lot of nuance in your tone. There's a lot of brands that use humor. so they're like Geico, for example, You that they're constantly changing their little mascot-y guy, you know, it was cavemen, it's gecko, la la la. But they have a thread going through that it's always some sort of humor that's entertaining, it's not painful to watch, you know, that kind of thing. So, but even small brands can have a tone, right? And have like something consistent that shows up, whether it's caring or, you know, funny or... serious, that is a big part of what your brand is. And then beyond that, there are your brand assets that you put into your brand guidelines. And that basically makes sure that anybody who helps you represent your brand in any capacity has an understanding of what you're trying to achieve. So there's nothing ever off message, off visually. Like if you use orange and black and suddenly there's purple somewhere, that's weird, right? Like that's not you anymore. And it creates confusion. not to say that you can't incorporate that selectively into your palette, but even like down to your photography or illustration or other imagery that you use to promote your brand through advertising or other means, that needs to be also thought through and really aligned with what your logo looks like, what your colors look like. I've commissioned, custom illustrations for like end reports or things like that for nonprofits. And we always tell the illustrator, here's our colors. And if, you know, please incorporate some of them. I mean, obviously we want them to do their thing and because we hired them for their talent, but they are quite happy to do that. And then when you're choosing photography, even if you're choosing stock photography, Find the colors in the clothing or the backgrounds that are part of your brand. And that can really make the whole thing feel cohesive. That makes complete sense. So we have our name of the company. We have our logo, which is our main visual that shows up everywhere, hopefully. We have our tagline. We have our colors. We have our typography, which is another fun way to say like font, the font that we use. what else? We have our tone. You mentioned tone. Yeah, you might also have positioning like an elevator pitch. We often have those in our brand guidelines and that helps people keep the same descriptor wherever they are, wherever they live in the company, whether they're the top of the CEO or the janitor or whatever, they say the same thing basically. Yeah. something that I have, I have realized over time with the different clients and their different businesses is that if they don't have a grasp on their brand from the start, it tends to de-thread throughout all of their different marketing and assets and even sales collateral. And it, you mentioned earlier, the whole point of a brand is to help with cohesiveness. And so if we have different colors over here on our website and we have a logo that looks different on social media, but it's totally different on our letterhead, for example, like it doesn't feel like we're working with the same company. it tends to all get lost. Are there any other than cohesiveness, are there any other major reasons why we should care about having all of these elements predefined? Well, to your point about sales, if your sales team is not aware of how you're presenting your company, they could sell it wrong. You know what I mean? Like they could over promise, under promise. They could maybe not really focus on the benefit that you think is the most important or the differentiator. So they could go in thinking, well, It's all about price, but it's not. That's not where your differentiator lies. Even if you are price competitive, your differentiator may be the level of quality or the service or something completely different or the colors that your product comes in. people buy stuff for a lot of different reasons. making sure that the brand guidelines don't stay in your marketing department, but they go out to every single person as like an onboarding for new hires. It is such a building block or a foundation for your company, just as much as a marketing plan, a financial plan, your branding is just as important. Ooh, wow, this sounds really, really important. And so if we go into hiring, for example, and we say, our company needs your help with developing this video or our company needs help with sales, these are our brand guidelines. It sounds like there needs to be that conversation and that understanding that whoever you are about to hire completely grasps everything that is about your brand. Otherwise there might be a mismatch. Yeah, yeah, in a lot of different creative spaces, there's technologies that are newer or enticing. like a, a design, video designer may want to use an effect or something new to them that they can't wait to use on their next project. And it may be completely appropriate, but it might not. And so having... a guideline. And again, I see these as guidelines. They're not like the brand police. They're a place to, give you that structure to work within. And then other people can be creative within it. But, lot of marketing directors and VPs, they have a really good grasp if they've been in their business for a while of what's going to fly. And that's why it's so important to listen to those clients and make sure that they're really understood and heard because I've seen, other partners that have done video or have done, something that EnZed doesn't offer as much of, or if it's related to an event, that kind of thing, that's outside of our scope. they get it wrong sometimes and when the client gives them feedback, they don't always embrace it. you want the brand guidelines to be kind of the ambassador of how to talk about your company yeah, you brought up how there are so many different tools that a business owner can work with, which on one hand is fantastic, right? We have so many options for how to achieve a goal as a business. However, it is really important to consider our brand guidelines as we move into using these different tools. I have a client who is paying for a platform that is using AI to generate social content. It can spit out two posts every single day and syndicate those posts onto Instagram, Facebook, Google My Business. It's pumping out all of this content. And it seemed like a cool idea, helpful idea. When we drilled down into what that content actually is, oh my gosh, Helen, it's heartbreaking. It's just, we have to weed out so much of it. Only 30 % of it survives and out of that 30%, we still have to redo the graphics and rewrite the captions because they just aren't on brand. Yeah, and I think that's something that comes from experience, right? Like I've used other people's brand books millions of times because that's what we do as designers. And I've created brand books. so being on both sides of that, to expect AI to have that kind of intimacy, I guess, with that kind of knowledge beyond just what's on the page, which is how AI works, right? It's just data in and data out is a high mark for AI to hit, right? It's probably, like you said, going to hit 30 % of the time or something, you know? And then what do you do? You have to go in and edit it. So did that really save time? Did that really create efficiency? I mean, I think AI is powerful and it's in everything we do now in some manner, other than paintbrush to paper, but maybe it was used to mix pigments in the factory. You know what I mean? So anyway, I think that what I like to use it for is organization, almost like a virtual assistant, where it helps you structure things that would take you a long amount of time to do if you did it manually yourself. And it may not be exactly perfectly how you want it, but at least you've got a starting point and it's not creating copyrightable material. And I think that's where you really can't copyright AI, no one owns it. It may be stealing from people who own copyrights if it's not well-educated, so to speak. And so, you you have to be respectful of, I think, what its limitations are and what its really forte is in helping you in your tasks in your career, you know? So as graphic designers and marketers, we have to create original content. And that's really what differentiates us as brands, as communicators, as creatives. And I don't think you can rely on AI for that yet. I mean, maybe one day you could train it to your own tone of voice. So it's your, your Kaila's like voice and it's all about, and it only sources you. So that I could see in the future being a great thing because, know, like in some of them, Canva and places like that, you can import all your branding, colors and fonts and logos and everything so that it's using your stuff that you created, but it's helping you do it quickly. And that's where I think it needs to be and will be at some point. Right, right. Over time, hopefully it will get to learn who we actually are, what our brand is, and use those assets. And to the whole point of branding and why we should do it as business owners, well, we have to have that starting place in order to be able to use the AI to hire the people to create these assets to begin with. Otherwise, we're just kind of, I don't know. We're just floundering. We don't really have a direction. think it's like recognizing what you can outsource, right, in your process, your creative process or your business, and then deciding what level of expertise do you need for that task? And does AI fit in that place or does a person or a five fit in that spot? Right, right. That's so interesting because we think about the future of AI and how it is learning to do our jobs. It's kind of scary. like our jobs are being replaced, quote unquote, by AI, but are they really being replaced? well, I don't know if you ever saw it was hidden figures, I think. And the ladies that were in that movie, was at NASA, they were called computers. Right, right. Yeah. And I mean, calculators came in and made it easier to do sums and multiplications and things. that wasn't, I mean, I guess it was taking people's jobs potentially, but it was more of a tool, right? Computers came along and AI does all the crunching of the data, right? And so, people were used to be called computers. Now computers are aiding people. so it's, but they don't do stuff on their own. You have to guide them, right? So it's the human mind that's still working with the tools. It's just the tools maybe can do it faster now, certain tasks faster than the human mind like processing through just like tons and tons of medical data to reach a conclusion more quickly. for the scientists that are looking at it, that have the experience to know what it means. yeah, so sure, there's going to be some jobs that are taken over by processes that are faster than humans are, but they do need somebody to guide the process. And so that person is going to keep their job. Yeah. and when it applies to branding and design, yeah, you can go and have, one of the AIs, that creates imagery, create your logo, but it's pulling from everybody else's. So what is that really giving you? Is that giving you a unique look in your industry, or is it giving you a, "and also" look in your industry or even an also ran. You know, like you didn't do it first. You're just follower. So you got to keep that in mind is these days looks can, you know, if you're a startup, you don't have a lot of money. That's totally understandable. And you can do things I think to, control your spending at the beginning. But what I would recommend to a startup that maybe doesn't have money and wants to go to AI because it seems like the easiest way to get a logo done quickly and yada yada. is I would instead take just a little budget, even if you can't afford like a total professional graphic designer, and just meet with them and have a consultation and talk through the business and what visually or naming wise, what their perspective is on it. And then that would guide you to having to do a DIY if you need to. But at least you've got an expert helping you guide the process, even if they're not physically doing the work. So, that's a possible option, but obviously it's best to hire a true pro if you if you've got the funds. if startups start, they obviously are going to have a financial plan, a business plan. They should also have a marketing plan, because if no one knows about you, doesn't really matter about the rest. Oh yeah, say that again. It's so true. I've seen businesses make the mistake where they build the thing and then they sit back and they wait for all of the customers and clients to just come out of thin air and give them money. That's not how it works. Well, that and it takes time like we've talked about before. You can put something out there. It could be amazing. But you're competing with so much stuff now. So many media like remember when it was just like print, and billboards like before web like that. So that's not that long ago, but it feels eons ago like we never lived in that time. And now there's so many more new socials and all the things. So it's pretty complicated. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that brings up a benefit to niching down and specifying your brand as a standout instead of asking AI to just draw up any old logo, right? But instead you're understanding your client in a very specific way and you're speaking to them in a very specific way. That is organically going to help give you an edge. It's not going to do everything, but that helps. Definitely it'll find your people faster. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So let's think about, if I'm the small business owner and I want to hire someone, you gave the brilliant advice of taking a consultation call, which is a great idea. And let's caveat that, please expect to pay for that person's time. Oh, absolutely. a lot of creatives will give you 15 minutes just to, see if you guys are of interest to each other. But then after that, it's on the clock and you're gonna be speaking with the top person. So you're gonna be paying over $100 an hour in a lot of metro areas, much more than that, but not like a lawyer. Right, right, right. This isn't gonna be $900 an hour. Right, and it'll be so priceless to helping you decide where you want to go next. And even if it's just a couple of hours, like 500 bucks investment or something like that, would be totally, totally worthwhile to make sure that you're starting out on the right foot from the very beginning. Right, right, absolutely. And one thing that you can learn from a designer is the proper design vocabulary so that you can better go into the DIY process and have a better shot at getting to where you want to go. Kind of tips and tricks too. Like, one of my tiny tips that I give people that need to do like a brochure themselves or whatever, especially a lot of my nonprofits, they have a lot of need for things that they just, they don't have the budget for everybody to work on. So they do themselves. And I say, if you're looking for a stock photo, try to find the colors that support your brand, but also go past page three. in the search. Because I have seen so many times you've seen that that stock image that you've seen in five different industries or the exact same industry that as your client who have used it maybe on their website, you know, like even on the homepage, know, like, and, yeah, and it's just, you know, it's just, you got it to you have to make sure you are unique. And if you're using the same stock photo that was free on Unsplash that everybody else has used for five years, that's not going to differentiate you and make you stand out. So yeah. my eye twitch is just thinking about how stock photos can be so redundant. At least, at least, right? If you are going to use page one and do it quick and dirty, hire somebody to edit it so that it no longer looks like that original stock photo. Do something, please. Right, and now Photoshop has a lot of AI in it. It's really easy to do that. Anyway, yeah. we have options. my gosh, Helen. This has been so much fun. Let's go ahead and dive into our lightning round. So what has been your or your client's biggest business win? Well, for me, I think it's the longevity that I've had because I've been through so many cycles, right? 2008 was like ridiculously bad for marketing and everybody, but I came through that, kept going. I went through a divorce at the same time and it was like, yeah, it was a cyclone of ick. But I think that the adaptability is key for any small business Being able to be flexible, not being rigid about where you are now being the place that you end up. And also not panicking when things aren't going quite how you wanted them to, or there's a big dip in the economy. it's kind of like the stock market. It dips and it goes up and it dips and it goes up. And that's hard. I'm not saying that's easy, but, having a good group of people around you that you turn to, understanding clients, clients you've created relationships with over a long period of time. So when things don't go perfectly, there's forgiveness easily and same on the other direction. So, it just that I think that longevity through this, mean, when I started, we were on pace up boards and, I had to learn a lot over the course of my career and you just have to adapt and keep going. yeah, I think that would be my biggest win is still being here and still being relevant. Oof, yes, 30 years, you did that. You did that. That's amazing. And let's dive into your biggest business mistake and how you were able to overcome it. I would say my biggest mistake is trying to do everything myself. and part of that is necessity, wearing a lot of hats, but also part of that I think is a little bit of perfectionism, a little bit of a recovering perfectionist. But also, I think I want to learn it so that I understand it. So if I do delegate it, that I can ask the right questions, have the right expectations for what something can do. For example, I had my junior designer learn After Effects and create video and animations. And I had to know enough about it in order to art direct. the project, right? So I had to like open it up, get my hands in there, figure out, the sound and the pacing and just so I knew what it was capable of. And so I don't think that's necessarily a horrible mistake, but it definitely has caused me some pain from time to time. Luckily, it's you can remedy. And over time, you learn what can I delegate? What has to be me? Mm. That's an important question to ask ourselves as we go through our tasks. if only I could clone myself? Yeah, yeah. I mean, including how my brain works. Well, you know, maybe that's not such a great thing. Right, right. And you know what I've learned too is yeah, like I want to clone myself, but also I kind of don't. Like I actually want to hire people who are better than me because they bring to the table. because I am limited. I'm a one person. You want all the brains, right? Yeah, yeah, you want all the different perspectives, you know, and yeah, so. Yes, yes. So let's dive into your most successful marketing strategy for your business or clients. Well, I think for any business, but definitely clients, has been a couple of things, but mostly it is having a good array of media. You know, as we kind of touched on earlier, I started as a print designer and that's the media that existed. Now there's so much media. And so picking and choosing the right ones that reach the client's audience. but also is comfortable for the client to execute, like if they have an in-house team, I think that's critical. And I think a lot of companies make a mistake of maybe investing too much in one type of channel. Like maybe it's all social media because that's the thing they've been told that is the big thing. Well, maybe it's not for them, for their particular type of product or service. And so, a lot of people shy away from print. because it's expensive and permanent, right? It's not web where you can go and fix a typo, but it's gotten less expensive and less permanent with digital printing. But I think that combining print and that tactile element of print, especially at events, like I do a lot of event design work for one of my clients and they have in-person events. And so there's always a notebook or a folder or both for them to use because not everybody always wants to look at the app or they need to, there's just so many different levels of technology comfort still, although most people are pretty savvy with it that are in business, but there's always the Gen Z or the whatever that's coming up behind you that grew up with something, but they didn't grow up with paper, you know, so. They now are turning to paper. They love journaling. So you've got to meet people where they are and in order to do that, you have to really work your media. So it has to be very diverse. Ooh, excellent, excellent. And what is a marketing strategy that has flopped that just did not work? too many metaphors. You know, I have one of the same kind I just mentioned. She is wonderful to work with because she really appreciates all the work that we do and our mindsets with me and my writer. But she's also very practical about what is gonna fly with her audience. And she will tell us straight up if this is gonna be a flop. like if a certain metaphor is not going, it's going to just go over the head of, the audience because they just don't think like we do, or it's just not like something that resonates with them. So I think that the flops have been being too creative with things like metaphors or, you know, we do the same projects year after year. You want to mix it up because you want the audience to see it fresh and you want. to be able to bring something new. But there's a limit to that. Sometimes, a mix of fresh plus tried and true is the way to go. going a little too creative. I know that sounds a little strange, but yeah, you got to be flexible enough to listen to your client and say, I know this is not going to resonate. Let's go one notch back on that and then we'll be fine. Mmm, that makes complete sense. Yeah, when we get too artsy, I'm putting this in air quotes or avant-garde. It's just, our audience is not there yet. They don't understand it. there, we've done something maybe two years ago. Well, it's just now out there. Right. And we've already been working with it for two years straight. So we think it's time for something fresh. It's not to the to the end user. They're just getting into it. So that's another thing to kind of remember is you don't have to reinvent the wheel all the time to for it to be creative. It can be like a new rim. Wait. A new hubcap! Right, just change the color of the product and it's new. aah I love it. I love it. And what is your advice to listeners who want to start their own business? I would say get really specific about what your competences are, what your talents are, and what you're not good at. And don't feel the need to embrace things that aren't what lights you up, right? So if you have to do certain tasks, because we do, that we aren't that skilled at, outsource them immediately. Don't try, don't fuddle, don't waste time. Your time is much more valuable in the place where you are the most talented. So for me, that was an accountant. Immediately. Yeah. And then, you know, like I don't touch QuickBooks. I know a lot of designers who do QuickBooks and I'm like, are you kidding me? That is so not me. But my time is much more well spent designing and planning and client contact and strategizing, because that's what I've learned to do over the course of my career. And also, when you first start out, you're not going to be where you want to be. It's just not reality. If you can start in a really strong place, you will grow through your career with your business. I did not do strategy well. you know, when you start in design, it's all about the craft at first and getting things right and getting things designed so that they will be read by the audience. And then as you get through that stage where you've accomplished that and you know how to do that quickly, then you can start really focusing on the strategy behind it and how to really emphasize the features and benefits of a product. and how to talk to a client about emphasizing those things. And they, of course, will be a variety of experience levels as well. So you can guide each other. Mm-hmm. my gosh, Helen, we're gonna need a part two because I don't want this conversation to end. Like there's so many good gems. Thank you so much. ah Where can people find you if they have any questions? I'm enzedesign.com, which is E-N-Z-E-D, design.com on the web. And then of course I've got Instagram as enzedesign and LinkedIn enzedesign and also HelenYoung1. So yeah, that's pretty much where I am. would love to hear from someone that wants to do something fun together. Yeah. Yeah. it. I love it. Thank you so much, Helen, for your time, your wisdom. I've learned a lot and I know that the audience has too. Yeah, well, it's fun talking with you because we're so similar in our backgrounds. uh yeah, I think it was a great conversation. Thank you so much.