I can make a sketch of something that I wanted, and somebody can design on the computer, print a 3D, then they can refine it. It's an incredible tool. However, something about the process of carving something by hand.
Mirav Ozeri - HostHi!
Welcome back to How Much Can I Make? I'm your host Miravozeri, and this is a podcast all about jobs and careers. Today we're talking about what it actually takes to build a jewelry business. From learning the craft to figuring out how to sell and make money from it. I'm joined by jewelry designer Serena Van Rensler, who shares how she got started, how the business really works, and what it's like lending a collaboration with a film like Flow. So here is Serena. I'm so happy you came to the show. Thank you, my pleasure. I'm happy to be here. And let's hear about the business and job of a jeweler. And how did you learn the craft?
SPEAKER_00So
when I was in college, I took a year off, and I lived in Mexico in a town called San Miguel de Allende, and I went to a school there, an art school, and I happened to take a silversmithing class and fell in love with it. So when I came back to the states and I went to school to Northern Arizona University and worked with a metalsmith teacher there. So ever since then you are doing jewelry? Ever since then I've been doing jewelry, yes. It took me a while to become brave enough to sell it for my work. How did you get your first sale? My first couple sales were people that had seen my work. I think I did some shows at friends' houses, and then I moved, when I finished college, I moved to the Virgin Islands, worked in a gallery there, and opened up a small gallery with two other artists. And so that's when I really started selling my work. Before then, I was just a piece here and there, but I had a shop in St. John, and so I learned the business of creating work, selling work.
How do you decide how to price your piece? That's such a good question. It really depends on the cost of materials, the time that goes into it. I think when I was doing one of a kind pieces, maybe it was easier. Now I work with a caster. So it's finish all the pieces myself. It's a it's cheaper now, although silver and gold prices have gone crazy.
Mirav Ozeri - HostYou strictly work with silver and gold.
SPEAKER_00And gemstones. And gemstones.
Mirav Ozeri - HostWhere do you get your ideas from? It seems like it's store your I looked on your website. Yes. It's influenced by stories, by nature, and how do how do you get your ideas?
SPEAKER_00Oh my gosh. I think when I was first, when I first embarked on this journey, it was all I was all inspired by nature when I lived in the islands. When I moved back to New York, I did a collection inspired by the architecture in New York. Whenever I see something that hits me or strikes me or touches my heart, I'll start sketching and I did a collaboration with Little Prince. I'm going on my sixth year with that, which is amazing, and I'm so honored to be doing that. And then I'm embarking on a collection launching in a couple weeks with the Oscar-winning animated movie Flow. Yes, I want to ask you about that. Yes.
Mirav Ozeri - HostBut
first tell me, your pieces are selling. I saw a lot of pieces for $250. If it's a gold piece or it's a silver piece, your profit is very little, right?
SPEAKER_00If it's a silver piece, the profit is usually I have two prices because I sell wholesale and retail. I have wholesale shops that I've connected. I do a show in New York called New York Now, wholesale shows. So I've got wholesale accounts where I don't make as much money, but it's worth it for my business. Yes, I have minimum order and it's worth it for my business to be in places that I can't get to. Retail prices, like what you're on my website, is more of a profit. However, it's really hard. It like I was mentioning that silver and gold prices are crazy. I don't make gold pieces to have in stock anymore. It's too expensive. I can't afford to. Silver pieces I've had to raise my prices, which is sad to have to do, but I have to. So a lot of jewelry designers have their work made overseas. Like China. Yeah, China or Indonesia or Thailand or and that that's amazing. There's nothing wrong with that. That's amazing. However, I can't compete with prices. That's a whole nother part of my business that I've been trying to share with the world, share with my account, share with my customers, because everything of mine is made in the States. So because of that, like you said, you looked on my website and saw probably average price is probably two to three hundred for any of my silver pieces. If I had those pieces made overseas, I could drop.
Mirav Ozeri - HostHow much do you think you can drop it if you did it in China?
SPEAKER_00I less than half, probably. However, the quality and I've worked really hard to establish a wonderful team around me that I trust, that I respect, that I have a great relationship with, and I like to keep it in the States. The other thing about my work is all the models are hand-carved, nothing's made on the computer. And that's something that it's hard but beautiful to convey these days when everything is made by AI or computer. And again, there's room for that. Oh, 3D, 3D design. Yeah, 3D printing. You you didn't get into it yet. No, no. In fact, my partner hand carves all my designs.
Mirav Ozeri - HostHow did
you learn how to source your material? Where do you buy gold? Where do you buy silver?
SPEAKER_00Right now, silver and gold, my caster gets it for me because I have my pieces cast now. I have my designs cast. When I do one of a kind pieces, I buy it directly from companies, either in New York or there's some online companies that I buy silver and gold from. In terms of chains and clasps and findings, I have a handful of companies that I've been buying from for almost 30 years that I'm comfortable with. One of the things I like about the trade shows, by the way, is I connect with other jewelry designers, we share information. It's really important that it's a communal. I'm so not one that is in competition with other designers. I like meeting them, I like sharing ideas, I like it all coming together for the greater good. So over the years, I've met really wonderful people, particularly women that I've become close to that we've shared contacts with. And I designed a collection, you might have seen it on my website with a designer from India who's very talented. And that's the one collection of mine that is made in India. We've designed it together, and we've brought our creative forces together to make this collection work from the other side of the world. So that's I really like the idea of community, of partnership. Walk me through the process. You have an idea, you sketch it, and then what? I have an idea, I sketch it. If it's something like with the flow pieces, the new flow pieces, all of those pieces are it's hand-carved in wax. The model is hand-carved in wax by my partner who's super talented. We take that wax piece, we have a model, we cast it from wax into silver, have a model made of that, then we make a mold, and then we can cast 10, 20, 100, 1000 once we have that mold.
Mirav Ozeri - HostFlow
for people that don't know is an animated film, critically acclaimed movie. Yes. How did you get a gig like that to do for Flow?
SPEAKER_00So I feel very honored because the people the licensing company that works with Flow contacted me because they saw my Little Prince collection.
Mirav Ozeri - HostWhere did they see it?
SPEAKER_00And they, I guess online, they found my website or they did a search for Little Prince licensees. So they found me and they actually called me and sent me an email. To be honest, I didn't I wasn't really familiar with the movie. I didn't I saw the email and I showed it to my son Aziz actually, and I was like, look at this email. Do you what do you think of this? It was like three days after I got the email, and Aziz was like, Mom, call them now. This is so great, this is so huge. So then, of course, I saw the movie and fell in love with the movie. But yeah, they found me from my little prints collection. And they asked you for how many pieces for the collection? They right now we're starting with six pen actually seven pendants, which of all the main animal characters, one and two different poses, and then we have a collection of ten rings, and that's what we'll launch with. So they will sell it and you will get royalty? No, so uh they'll sell it and I sell it, and I I pay a license fee to them. Oh. Like a small percentage of what sells, but they're very involved with helping me market it, which is wonderful. Did they pay you in advance something? No, with these, this is what these no little prints didn't either. When you have a license, I've learned a lot about this aspect of my business. You don't ever all production, everything is on me. Again, I do custom packaging. However, once things start to sell, it's usually about like with flow, 10% of anything I sell, whether they sell it, whether I sell it, whether it's wholesale retail, whatever, goes for my licensing fee. So 90% I keep.
Mirav Ozeri - HostBut you still keep the rights to the image, correct? Yes.
SPEAKER_00Oh, okay. And I have a signed contract and they have to approve everything. But you're happy about this collaboration, but I'm very happy.
Mirav Ozeri - HostYeah, so that's The Little Prince, by the way, was that a collaboration with someone? Oh, I didn't know.
SPEAKER_00That was also, yes. So that was, and that was something I sought after because I love the book. And I had actually designed a collection when I was in my 20s and a sketchbook, but I shelved it because I didn't know how to do it legally. And then a designer friend of mine during COVID, I was showing the designs to him, and he was like, You have to do this. So he found the licensing company. I connected with them, and it all happened. It was actually one of those COVID magical things.
Mirav Ozeri - HostSo, what
do you say is more profitable? Direct sales to customers like come to the gallery or wholesale or collaboration with big names like fun stuff like that?
SPEAKER_00I think it ebbs and flows. Right now, for me, probably direct to consumer through my website is the most profitable. However, something like wholesale, I can reach more of an audience and it's more volume. Do you sell directly to stores also?
Mirav Ozeri - HostI do. And how does this go? You go from store to store and try to sell your stuff?
SPEAKER_00I should do more of that. I try to do that, but most of the stores I've connected with at a wholesale market called New York Now.
Mirav Ozeri - HostBut there's no like agency that you can hook up with that will do the promotion and marketing for you?
SPEAKER_00There is. They usually take a percentage. I considered actually I did start working with somebody when I first did the Little Prince collaboration, but I just didn't think it was uh profitable for me, because on top of 15% commission that reps usually take, I had to give a a percentage to Little Prince and it just felt but it is something I should look into. I'm always looking for ideas for help with marketing or getting my work out there because it's a it's pretty much a one-person business here that and I wear very many hats.
Mirav Ozeri - HostSo to succeed in this business, what's more important? Knowing the technical uh side of it, the great designs, or to know about business?
SPEAKER_00That's a hard question because there's so many ways to go about being a jeweler or jewel a jewelry designer. There are so many different paths to take. As a business, I think it's important to incorporate wholesale as well as retail or direct a consumer to widen your audience. A social presence, maintaining a website that is extremely important. And you have to be prepared to wear so many hats. And also, I think one of the biggest things, and people said this to me way when I first started this journey, is like you just have to be prepared to get a lot of rejection before you make headway.
Mirav Ozeri - HostYeah, I hear it a lot from entrepreneurs and from uh people in creative jobs.
But I want to know what would you say is the biggest challenge or expense that most people don't think about?
SPEAKER_00The biggest expense for me right now is the wholesale show that I do. It's very expensive to do, but it's worth it for my business. You have to have a booth? Yes.
Mirav Ozeri - HostWhat does it still go to a show like that?
SPEAKER_00It goes up every year, but this year I think it's $4,200 for a five by ten booth. But it's worth it. It's expensive.
Mirav Ozeri - HostBecause you make connections, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00But it's expensive. And then as far as a surprise shipping, especially overseas over the years, I think it used to be easier, but it is surprisingly expensive and surprisingly challenging. Two pieces I've shipped overseas have been lost the last couple years. One of them found its way back to me. But I think shipping has become difficult, expensive, and unpredictable.
Mirav Ozeri - HostDo people come to you and they want you to design a special piece for them? They do. What was the craziest request that you got?
SPEAKER_00When I lived in the islands, somebody had me make a four pie ring with his name was H-E-R-B, and it was like a huge it would cost a fortune to make this now. It was a huge silver four four rings and one.
Mirav Ozeri - HostFour rings and yeah.
SPEAKER_00But it it was like a wet, it was so heavy. I felt like don't hurt anybody with this. And then I made a tiara. I made a tiara for somebody's wedding, a feather, a gorgeous feather tiara, also in the islands, and that started to be on a whole path of making these really couture feather pieces.
Mirav Ozeri - HostOh, cool. Which has been the most successful line for you? You have the live line, and you have the moon, which is beautiful.
SPEAKER_00Thank you. That's brand new. Yeah. Which is the most successful line? Gosh, again, it kind of ebbs and flows. I think that the some of the natural pieces, nature-inspired jewelry, that maybe consistently has sold the most lately, and Little Prince goes in and out. It's vintering. Before holiday or before graduation, I get more Little Prince sales. Does it sell better in Europe than here? Or actually it does on my website, yes. Yes, because it does. Yeah, I think so too. It does. I sell on my website overseas, which can be challenging with shipping. But and then the pieces you reference, the moon pieces, it's a pretty new collection that's been selling well. So I'm very grateful. Do
you see any trend in the industry now? I feel like it changes often. Now it seems like when I go to the shows, I'm always looking around at what new designers are doing. Seems like a larger, like hoop, I don't know if it's like 70s or 80s, that kind of thing seems to be coming. Really? Is silver more popular than gold now? Silver is probably more popular than gold just because it's gold is it's so expensive. Yeah, I think gemstones are very popular now. I think people like to add color to their designs. I think the meaning of gemstones brings a whole nother beautiful offering to a jewelry piece.
Mirav Ozeri - HostWhat's your favorite gemstone to work with? You said you're working with some.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, probably moonstone or turquoise are my favorites right now. But they change.
Mirav Ozeri - HostIf somebody want to start today as a jewelry designer, what would be the first step they need to take?
SPEAKER_00Jewelry design classes. Either starts taking jewelry design classes or fabricating jewelry classes, carving whatever aspect of the business they're interested in.
Mirav Ozeri - HostAnd they can start it as a side hustle, right?
SPEAKER_00If somebody can afford to do it, like in terms of producing the line, marketing it, getting it on social media, getting a website going. If they can if somebody can afford to hire help to do that, or they have a lot of motivation to do it as a side hustle, I think it's possible.
Mirav Ozeri - HostWhat would be the minimum investment that they need?
SPEAKER_00They're gonna have to connect with a model maker or designer that can make the collection. That would be the biggest expense. Getting that initial collection going and then connecting with a casting company, casting house that can produce it. So those two things finding 3D designer or hand-carved and the casting company to execute it. That's the biggest expense.
Mirav Ozeri - HostWhen you say casting company, can you send them just a design on paper?
SPEAKER_00You can. A lot of casting companies will, especially now, if you send a casting company design and say, I want to execute this as a small version as earrings, a large version as a necklace. They have they now have CAD designers, 3D designers, they can do that in-house and get a model. It's changed so much over the years since I started because I'm old, so when I started, there was no cell phones, there was no computers, there was some people had them, but not really. Everything was made by hand. There weren't 3D printers, so like my partner who hand carves everything in wax, there was a lot of people doing that now. Nobody's doing that. He's one of not so many, which I think is which I think is sad. I like old school, I like things that are handmade, hand-carved, hand created. So the industry's changed dramatically because of that. Because, like we were just saying, you could I can make a sketch of something that I wanted, and somebody can design on the computer, print a 3D, then they can refine it. And that's incre it's an incredible tool. It's amazing what can be done. However, something about the process of carving something by hand.
Mirav Ozeri - HostIt's the artisanship, then yes.
SPEAKER_00And so, like the collaborations I've done with Little Prince and Flow, all the models are carved. Aurelio carves them all by hand, and we hand finish them. But not that many people do that anymore. So that's changed.
Mirav Ozeri - HostWhat do you like to work with the most? Silver or gold?
SPEAKER_00Gold is luscious to work with. If I could both of them, and I do miss when I first started doing my jewelry work, like I said, I was making everything by hand, I was soldering, forging. That I miss, and that I probably love the most. Like sitting down with a piece of metal and some gems, and maybe some sketches, maybe not, and just seeing where the creative journey takes me. That I love, and I haven't done that so much lately because I'm more on the design side of things, but hopefully I'll get back to fabricating more of my own work.
Mirav Ozeri - HostRight.
What is the biggest reward in your business?
SPEAKER_00When somebody buys like a little prince piece and then writes me a note saying how meaningful it is to hold something. I remember somebody telling me once that I translated the book of the Little Prince into jewelry like beautifully, that I was able to make, and it meant so much to me. So I think just when somebody gets a piece and shares their feeling about it, or I see them at a show and they respond to something, or something when somebody else's heart is touched by what I make.
Mirav Ozeri - HostYes, yeah, I can see that. It's beyond all right, thank you so much for sharing your whole experience with us.
SPEAKER_00Thank you.
Mirav Ozeri - HostThat's it for today. And if this made you curious about creative careers, head to how much can I make that info and check out the creative career category. You'll find more episodes where people break down what they actually do, how they got in, what the pay is like, and you can make educated decisions if you want to try it or not. So go to how much can I make that info. And until then, I'll see you next week.