Focal Point
Conversations with artists across all industries, taking a deep dive into the nuances, techniques, and philosophies of society's talent.
Focal Point
The Art of Freedom in Creativity #45 w/ Musician Chase Jeffries
Chase from Soft Stone Hearts takes us on a journey through the winding paths of creativity, from recovering from a serious knee injury to finding his artistic voice.
The discussion also tackles practical challenges facing independent musicians, from content creation strategies to finding your place in local music scenes. Chase's insights into collaboration, particularly with his bandmate Jess, highlight how creative partnerships can provide essential external filters that help elevate the work beyond what either artist could accomplish alone.
Whether you're a creator yourself or simply curious about the mysterious forces behind the music that moves you, this conversation offers a thoughtful glimpse into the mind of an artist who's committed to making meaningful connections through sound.
all right, man, well ready to cook whenever you are. I'm really pumped that we lined this up and made it happen. I'm really glad you reached out oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, um.
Speaker 2:I mean you've been doing a lot lately so I thought it'd be interesting to try to bring you on and see what's up. But yeah, yeah we're recording. Uh, welcome to the podcast yeah, I'm here to grill you I'm here to grill you and make sure that everything is medium rare by the time of the end of it.
Speaker 1:Let's go, let's get well done.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, if it's well done, then I'll be cooking you the entire time. I don't know if that's necessarily the most polite way to host a particular show.
Speaker 1:We'll go back and forth. Let me I would love to actually how's your leg, by the way.
Speaker 2:What happened better?
Speaker 1:um. So I snapped my acl in half and injured my mcl. Um so I had to have surgery on april 1st to have it all rebuilt, which was crazy, because my drummer broke her right foot within a week of me tearing my acl and having surgery. So we were both crippled. We made some content about that, like, oh and you're in a band and you're over 30, which which was pretty funny.
Speaker 2:Um, we just had a show on sunday, so six days ago pop punk just punishes you for like not being a teenager making the music anymore yeah, well, I think pop punk usually originates if you're, you know, at a skate park and you're in high school with your buddies and that sort of thing.
Speaker 1:So it definitely has that energy in its roots and then you get old and your knees don't work. No, but we just did a show about a week ago tomorrow and it went surprisingly well from my knee perspective because I was able to like rock out, jump around a little bit and my knee was not screaming at me. So I would say recovery is, we're getting there how did it feel the day after, though? Curiously, you just lagged out. Can you hit me with that question one more time?
Speaker 2:how did it feel the day after the show?
Speaker 1:surprisingly good. I was expecting to have to ice my knee the next day and just be sitting around, you know, elevating my leg. Um, it felt fine, it there was nothing out of the ordinary. So I think I'm getting past the halfway point of healing to oh, we're actually making good progress and we're getting back to regular joint health. So life is good.
Speaker 2:Yeah well, no pain, no art, though that's the reality of it.
Speaker 1:I need to write a song called Crutches Crutches or Carry Me Hobble, I don't know. You got some options.
Speaker 2:I mean, you could probably do something with it. You could probably do something with it.
Speaker 1:Because then you can make content about.
Speaker 2:You know you probably have something with it.
Speaker 1:Cause then you can make content about.
Speaker 2:You know all on my my leg is broken and everything and then you inspired the song and then you can do the classic Indian thing.
Speaker 1:It's like I turned my pain into art. You know, my leg is broken, but not my heart. You know something?
Speaker 2:like that. You know I'm healing. The cheesier the better, you know.
Speaker 1:I'm only I'm only physically broken. There's actually, actually, I have a big soft spot in my heart for writing super overly cheesy lyrics, and those are not the kind of lyrics I would ever release with my with soft stone hearts. But I will write songs about anything. It's just a really really fun outlet and then Jess and I have really locked into the kind of songs we'll develop and pursue together. I'll write the dumbest, cheesiest lyrics you've ever heard all the time.
Speaker 2:At what point did Jess join you in doing Soft?
Speaker 1:Stone we were on. It was actually before we went pop-punk. We were exploring with blues, folk rock. This was years ago. Jess joined the band before the covid lockdowns, before before covid blew up. So it was a while back, um, but we needed, we needed a new drummer. Our drummer had left the band, um, on good terms, but that that drummer had left. And then I met jess through my. I had never met jess before she tried out, but I had a network of some musicians. I reached out to you just asking, um, if anybody knew a drummer and, um, I don't know, like, when I met Jess, uh, we had a bass player in the band at the time, but the bass player and I both felt that Jess was a really, really good creative fit for us. Um, that's the big thing for me. Like I don't care how talented somebody is, if they are a pain to work with creatively, then I don't know what?
Speaker 2:what did uh? What stood out about jess?
Speaker 1:you know specifically that made you go with her as opposed to others it was a long time ago so I don't remember exactly how I came to this conclusion, but it was a conversation with john, my bass player, saying she feels like a good creative fit, like we would like to write songs with her. Um, and she had a really really chill vibe. Um, this is not true for every musician, but some musicians have really big egos. Um, it's really hard to work with them. But if you have somebody where you can tell, I can communicate with this person and we can give each other honest feedback, there is really no other way to level up than being able to give honest feedback and communicate with the people that you're creating with. So that was definitely huge. That was definitely huge.
Speaker 1:And sometimes there's just an X factor with somebody that you had. This is the creative X factor where you, you connect with somebody and there's really not an explanation for it. But I'll throw hey, jess, here's a, here's a voice memo of a song I'm working on or a scratch recording, and put it together. Here's a chorus. And then she'll bounce back oh, I've got these ideas, change the snare to this, change the hi-hat to this, and I'll do it and it works and we'll ping pong.
Speaker 1:That gives me an idea so I'll change the the song a bit more. I'll ping pong it back to her um, it's just a good back and forth, um, and we just we felt that pretty quickly so okay, well, let's back up a second.
Speaker 2:Um, at what point? You mean, you've been doing music for a while now. I think you started off like doing stuff for your church or something like that, and then, uh, you started doing your own thing. Or how far back, uh, do we gotta? Do we gotta travel in time in order to see? Oh, this is what I want to start doing now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so before I answer that question, um, I have one, you, and that's just to kind of give me a little bit more context as we continue through this episode. But I've known you for a while, even before you started this podcast, so give me it's kind of for the audience, but also to give me context on how to answer as you come on as the host, what is your background creatively that you're bringing to the podcast?
Speaker 2:Well, what I the purpose of the podcast really I like to approach um is that um, there's always this uh, weird mix of variables that go into when we're, not just when we're conceptualizing things for creativity. It's the nature of creativity in and of itself so I guess it's somewhat of a philosophical endeavor, which doesn't always tend to go that way.
Speaker 2:But my personal interest is you know the nature of creativity and you know the little branches that sort of spring out from it. You know that results in the art that people you know the artists actually end up making, and so you can kind of reverse back, engineer through their art to actually figure out what in the world is going on you know, on a more fundamental level, and that that's more my personal interest, because you know if, when I'm talking, you might remember when I was talking about, like an occasion, um the last film, uh that I, I did, um that it was.
Speaker 2:You know the topics that that sort of dealt with. Um, there was a lot of why, you know, behind something uh very deep, like the nature of regret itself and although I was only able to like cut it down to a short and everything. Um, when I uh where can I what?
Speaker 1:where can I, where can I watch that? Oh, it's, you've been I've I've wanted to see An Occasion for Time for years. It's legendary, Even if it's a short film. I really want to experience this. I want to watch it.
Speaker 2:I put it up on the Myers Films YouTube. There's multiple links on my Facebook and also on my Instagram, where I posted about it. Send me a link.
Speaker 1:Send over a link after this. I posted about it. Send me a link. Okay, yeah, send over a link after this. I'll watch it tonight. Yeah, thanks, buddy.
Speaker 2:The nature of creativity, I think, is kind of at the heart of everything, and that's always a there's never one response, you know, because we don't know necessarily why we're creative. And I think honestly, it starts off with a kid being absolutely bored and then he tried to take something in reality and then manipulate it into something that was more interesting. So I think it's ultimately born out of boredom is where creativity comes in, and so we find that the more things in reality that we can mess with, the more entertaining it actually ends up becoming, it can become, the more you master each facet of this craft.
Speaker 1:I relate to that, but I'm going to take it from a different angle. I don't. So instead of telling you when I started making music, I'm going to talk to you about why I got into it, and I think that'll get to the when. Um, but I fully agree, except for for me, growing up, some of the classic pop, punk bands and rock bands, really just of the 2000s, really just resonated with me when I don't know.
Speaker 1:I grew up listening to Sum 41, reliant K, yellow Card, all Time Low I'm going to say a little bit of Blink-182, but I actually didn't get into them until I was a little bit older, but there was just something about these bands that resonated with me, them until I was a little bit older, but there was just something about these bands that resonated with me. And at the time when you're growing up, when you're a preteen or you're a young teenager, you're developing and processing a lot of emotions for the first time and you don't necessarily have words for them. Now I do, but at the time, the bands I was listening to and the songs they were writing, I was able to resonate. Okay, I'm feeling this and I don't have words for it and it helped me really get through that in a way that I felt like that era, that I felt was a productive way to process it.
Speaker 1:And what got me into playing guitar, songwriting, eventually singing and then being in Soft Stone Hearts and fronting a band is I wanted to be able to write songs about what I was going through, processing, thinking about the things that resonated with me, and then give hopefully give at least one person the words to process what they were going through, or the feeling of like I'm not alone or I can get through this. So it was something where that was given to me by other bands when I needed it and I wanted to, and the whole reason that I got into music was because that struck no pun intended struck a chord with me and I wanted to give that back to others. Um, so I formed my first band when I was 15 years old and um, man classic time for pop punk, you know but classic time for pop punk.
Speaker 1:That band was actually a metal band, believe it or not. My first. It wasn't screamo, but it was definitely a hard rock at the very least. Uh, which was cool, soft stone hearts. I formed in 2016, 2017 and um, it's evolved a whole lot, but yeah, the whole reason. I've been doing music since I was 15. That was when I formed my first band and I started writing songs when I was 12.
Speaker 2:How bad was your first song.
Speaker 1:Terrible, even the first songs I released through Sawstone Hearts. I look back and think, oh man, I can't believe I wrote that. But the encouraging thing and you probably feel this as well and resonate with this for maybe the first films you made or the first creative projects that you made. But I had to start there to get here For sure. So I'm really glad that I was willing to put myself out there and release songs that now I would look back and say they're a little cringy. But you don't get better at something until you just take the first step. So well, I mean until you just take the first step so well.
Speaker 2:I mean, you know the. I wonder how many artists never happened, because there are people who are too afraid to like take the first steps and just admit that they were going to be bad to start with.
Speaker 1:You know, you know, I was talking to somebody literally yesterday who told me like hey, I go to open mics.
Speaker 1:I write poetry and I'll read it at open mics and I really respect that because, even if it's not what I do Like, I write songs but I'll go play at open mics Even now. I'll play shows, I'll release songs. There are so many people who want to be creative and don't create, and there are so many people who are creative but they create privately. And there are a lot of people who do put themselves out there. I'm not saying there's any shortage of that, but think of how many people are too afraid to put themselves out there or even start, because you don't want to look foolish, you don't want to be bad at something.
Speaker 2:Also to reveal an aspect of yourself, though you know because, when you create something, it's like, hey, here's part of me, you know, and so you're literally throwing that part of you out into reality. And you know, nobody wants to be rejected, necessarily unless you're glutton for punishment, you know, unless you're glutton for punishment.
Speaker 1:I think very few people would release a short film or do a photo shoot and edit the photos and post them or write a song and hope for negative feedback. I want everybody to love the songs that I write, but it's freeing to know that not everybody is going to and you accept that. And then you write for the people that are going to resonate with your art. You write for the people that will creatively lock into what you're doing and you know if you are getting hate, that means people are seeing what you're doing. And you know if you are getting hate, that means people are seeing what you're doing and at least they're engaging with it, even if it's, you know, kind of negative.
Speaker 2:but when did the soft stone hearts start to um amalgamate and actually become a thing?
Speaker 1:Um, you kind of went in and out there. Um, I didn't hear what you asked.
Speaker 2:Okay, um, when did soft stone hearts first start and actually become a more cemented uh thing that you were trying to do?
Speaker 1:yeah. So I went through a period of time where I was sitting there and this was really before I had recorded any music. I had done a classic rock cover band with some friends I had done. I had formed some bands before, but it was more jamming together, maybe playing one or two gigs. I didn't know what I was doing music wise, and I still don't, but I figured a lot of things out at that time.
Speaker 1:I was sitting there like, uh, like I really want to be doing music, but I don't have a band. So like I'm gonna play guitar, that's what I want to be doing. And I want don't have a band. So like, I'm gonna play guitar, that's what I want to be doing. And I want to write songs and play shows, but like, where do I meet a drummer? Where do I meet a bass player? Where do I meet a vocalist? This is so hard. And eventually I just had this moment where, like it just clicked mentally and I said, you know, I want to be playing rock music, but I'm not. I don't have a band.
Speaker 1:What I can do is I can find a producer, and at the time I didn't know the difference between an audio engineer or a producer, I didn't know. But I can go find somebody to record with. I can record a singer, songwriter, folk, pop, ep, and if I ever have a band we could make these songs rock. But if I don't, I can at least do gigs by myself. And it's not what I want to be doing, but at least I'm taking a step forward. And when I started taking action and moved towards that, that's when I started networking with other musicians, meeting people who had a similar vision, and it did take a couple steps to get Soft Stone hearts from me writing acoustic songs in my bedroom to being a pop rock band. But it wouldn't have gotten there if I hadn't been willing to take some steps, not knowing what the ending was and just being willing to take some action and make things happen?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, when you first started you know, producing some things, you know just on your own, um, how did you start plugging yourself in, uh, into the scene as sort of a solo artist to try to start, you know, at least networking, to see at least what was out there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I got really lucky. So, um, I had been writing a couple songs and that I, so I had been writing a couple songs and then I. So how did I get onto the scene? Ask me the question one more time. I'm kind of processing what you would just ask.
Speaker 2:How did you first start plugging yourself into the local music scene to start networking as a solo artist?
Speaker 1:once you had some work down, yeah, so first I knew what I wanted to do and I started writing some songs. So I had some vision and knew what the next steps were I wanted to take, which helps because you can show up and at least articulate where you want to go and what you're working on. My buddy, luke, had just graduated from music school in a conservatory, um for thedle, and we were just having dinner catching up. It had been a while and he showed me some of the songs he'd been writing. He played my guitar, because people that go to music school play every instrument, even if they majored in one.
Speaker 1:So he was showing me some of his songs. They were really good, and I showed him some of my songs and explained to him a little bit about what I was trying to do, what my vision was, and he said, oh, my buddy just graduated too and guess what? He knows how to record music. Maybe you should talk to him. He's really good at taking starting ideas and developing them into finished products, so go work with him. So I reached out to this guy guy, we chatted on the phone for a little bit and he ended up helping me record really recording. Uh, my first ep that I ever did um and, looking back, I had no clue what I was doing. I don't think he even does music anymore.
Speaker 1:I think he renovates houses now, which is crazy oh um, but so that was the start was yeah, the start was my buddy just plugging me in with somebody who, um, knew how to record, and that was what I needed. To get started from there. Um, man, I just network my my tush off go to open mics, talk to everybody, play shows, talk to the other bands, talk to the sound guy, um, facebook groups, anything you can really do, even agreeing to be on a podcast. You know this is new for me, um, but being willing to put myself out there and try to meet other creatives, but, yeah, I just saying yes to every opportunity and, you know, not being afraid to go sing in front of people in an open mic and play for strangers.
Speaker 2:What kind of like people did you meet, though, like when you were putting yourself out there, cause've noticed at least. I mean filmmakers. They kind of tend to fall into, like you know, three or four different personality types, but with music you get the full spectrum of all all creativity. I don't know why this is, or maybe I just need to get out more, but I've been getting out more lately and so like I feel like I've kind of I've at least seen and talked to like a number of filming. Like you fall into like three or four different types, but with music, yeah, you got everything.
Speaker 2:It's like you know all the flavors of. You know the autism spectrum. Also. Creativity has its own spectrum of different types of people and you know music is where you'll see the fullest you know wavelength of all the different types of people coming in. So, like when you were first you know, talking to people, how did you decide that, oh, this is like somebody. I think their advice might be valuable. Maybe you know there's something that about this person I'd like to maybe network with, because how did you start filtering through those experiences as an artist?
Speaker 1:I mean I don't know if I necessarily filter. I will network and talk to anybody really, which is great. If I'm going to take somebody's advice, I have to respect your creativity or respect your work or professionalism, if that makes sense. So if I'm working with somebody who is really really good at production and they give me advice on how I should or shouldn't sing for different takes, how I should or shouldn't sing for different takes, I'm going to take that a lot more seriously than somebody who comments on one of my videos saying that my singing and lyrics are bad.
Speaker 1:Okay, cool, like this random person on the internet versus somebody who actually knows something about music and has a body of work that I respect. So if I can see that you know what you're doing creatively and you are on a creative journey and ideally, like you're ahead of where I'm at, I will really give you the time of day and I think it would be wise for me to listen to you. But if you don't, then I can't. There's going to be a lot of conflicting advice I would have to take if I gave everybody the same weight. So it's more do I want to be like you creatively, even if I want to be like you creatively, even if I want to be more of a songwriter than a filmmaker or a producer. If the answer is yes, and I respect what you're doing creatively, then I will give a lot of weight to what you tell me.
Speaker 2:Does your creativity thrive more in collaboration or solitude?
Speaker 1:You cut back out again. What was the question?
Speaker 2:Does your creativity thrive more in solitude or collaboration?
Speaker 1:I think getting the ball rolling and maybe in some cases dialing in the ending really thrives in collaboration. But if I have an idea and it started and I know where it's going, I've just got to give it the time to stoke the fire and develop it. I tend to thrive writing those songs and developing those songs in isolation. I just have to buckle down and let the song tell me what it wants to be.
Speaker 2:So you're kind of ambidextrous in that way.
Speaker 1:Yes, the funny thing about songwriting I've never met a songwriter where they say this is my process. Every songwriter I've met me included, me included will tell you. Here's what my song songwriting process is sometimes. But it's always different, so sometimes I'm gonna thrive by myself. The entire songwriting process there have. There are songs that I have written all the way through in collaboration. I can tell you what works most of the time is usually I will get ideas better with other folks, or I have an idea established and then I will bounce off. Does this work? I'm between these two or three creative choices. Which one's the best? And getting another pair of eyes is helpful. Getting someone else's thoughts if I'm hitting a speed bump creatively is really, really helpful too. But I mean, the honest truth is it depends. It depends on the song, the part of the process. It depends on the person I'm writing with it. It it really depends. Um, it's very situational. Which?
Speaker 1:is not a very satisfying answer, but that's the truth. You know, creative I, I, I am chasing creativity with a bucket, trying to catch the drops that it's giving me. Um, it's not something where I really have a choice and I can make creativity do what I want. I'm very much at the mercy of creativity to tell me what to do.
Speaker 2:I forget who said this? Um, and it might be rick rubin, but uh, I think he said art and creativity is a muse that doesn't like to be stared at. You know, it's something that you can't exactly bend to your will. It's more like something you have to listen for and wait for it to say something you know, and there's two types of arts.
Speaker 2:I think that it kind of boils down to there's an experience and then there's a statement, and then the vast range of everything falls in between one of those two those borders experience and it being a statement.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I think artists who like to create an experience, primarily they tend to be more collaborative. But artists who are really thinking about a statement, they tend to be more, they tend toward solitude a lot more. All of the different avenues about exactly the why, the what, the how of their art piece being able to deliver a particular message, as opposed to the very other end of the spectrum where you just really want to feel something. And feeling is kind of this symbiotic network that happens unconsciously when creatives get together.
Speaker 1:But that's just my take. I unconsciously creatives get together well. I think to what you were saying earlier about creativity being a muse that doesn't like to be stared at. There's an element of creativity that I just can't control, but I do know that the more I do it, the better I get, and I do know that if I sit down and I write music for 10 minutes a day, the more opportunities I give myself within the context of writing and creating, the more work I will create and the better work I will create. So there are principles I can follow to give myself opportunities to get lucky, to give myself opportunities to be struck by inspiration. Nothing is guaranteed. Hard work guarantees nothing, but a lack of it definitely does guarantee something it guarantees that you will get nowhere.
Speaker 1:So yeah I don't know, it's this weird symbiote, I don't know, just relationship between. I can't guarantee outcome, but I have to put in effort anyway and then wait for creativity to come in well, something, I think about.
Speaker 2:a lot is getting into the flow state, you know, because we have those experiences where everything's just clicking, it's's just rolling, you know, and it's just one thing after the other and you just feel like completely in sync with all the things that have been going on in the back of your head. You know, while you're just doing random everyday stuff and then suddenly it all just comes out all at once. And that happens when you're in the flow state and you know.
Speaker 1:one of the things that I like to ask artists about is how they're in the flow state and you know one of the things that I like to ask artists about is how they get into the flow state I was so obsessed with the flow state when I first started songwriting because there were a few times when I got into it and it made songwriting so much easier. But I was almost viewing the art of creating as a task to be completed I even read flow, I think by nihai chixemi.
Speaker 1:Hi, I'm butchering the author's name, but I read the book that this scientist had written on how, on what the flow state is and how to get into it. Now I don't even care if I'm in the flow state. Man, I'm asking myself is this song fun? Do I vibe with it? Do I like it? Like what is the song trying to be? The questions I'm asking, and not even consciously, but just what?
Speaker 1:The way I approach writing a song is so much different than feeling a need to complete something. It's feeling like I. I want to work on something that is enjoyable, that I want to share with other people. Um, is it a vibe? Is it a moment? Is it an experience? Is this fun to listen to? And if I get into the flow state, great. But ultimately to me, that is not an end or a goal within itself. But if I write something that's fun, if I write a song that people want to listen to, a song that I'm excited to share, that is a goal, that is an end. And if I get into flow state to help me achieve any of those, that's great. But if I don't, I don't need it.
Speaker 2:So I really haven't thought about the flow state in a long time there's some things that I think that a lot of artists can certainly benefit from in terms of. There are some qualities like, for me I'm not going to be able to say this exactly, but like I can tell you exactly from my experience um, I do my best writing, for example, when, uh, when I have all of my responsibilities taken care of, because I realize, if there's other my, my, my, my house, right before I start, like actually trying to sit down and do a writing session, it gets clean, and then the laundry gets done, because I realized, um, when I, when, my, my, my house is a mess and I have other things, these things in the back of my mind that are just like, oh, it needs to be done, I don't feel free. And the and the feeling of freedom is the most important gradient, I think, in order for an artist to be able to actually produce anything, or at least to be able to be willing to listen to.
Speaker 1:you know the muse who doesn't want to be stared at what I'm getting from you and you can tell me that I'm completely off.
Speaker 1:This is just the impression I'm getting, but maybe for you, as someone who works on film you operate out of a very specific technical set of skills where you can sit down and do produce and to not have other things for you to do frees you to focus on this work that is task and process oriented but doesn't necessarily have the same tangible outcome immediately as cleaning your apartment or going to work. For me, songwriting is a lot more focused on okay, this idea struck me based off something I'm feeling now or was feeling recently, or I misunderstood this interaction or had this weird thought wait, that would make a really good song lyric. So for me it's not even about freeing up my mental RAM to be more oriented towards the task of creating. It's being in tune with myself and my experience day to day, so that way I can catch moments and feelings and thoughts that could be expanded upon into a song or into a piece of a song or into a creative experience.
Speaker 1:And if I'm too focused on my phone or I'm just not focused enough, on what I'm feeling and I'm just letting things go on autopilot and I'm not tuning in and living in the moment. I'm missing creative elements, but even if I have a long to do list but I'm sitting in the moment and I'm sitting with myself I can get some song ideas and then jot them down and finish them later when I have that capacity. I don't know, does that seem the same or does that seem like we have just different creative approaches based on the crafts that we're pursuing?
Speaker 2:I would say, probably we're the same, but we have different weaknesses that make us not feel free, and we have different things that we have to do in order to make us feel free enough in order to actually have those experiences or those thoughts where they just come through fluently, almost like you know, it's yeah. When you're being creative, it doesn't feel like you're producing, it feels like you're just relaying something that is happening from somewhere else that you can't really explain, and then you're the messenger.
Speaker 2:you know, but that you know, everyone Because it has to do with, like, I think honestly, just different personalities and you just different personalities, and different personalities have different weaknesses, because those different personalities have a different point of, they have a different comfort zone, and in order to get into that comfort zone, it requires different things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I think for me, in my comfort zone, if I know what I'm trying to create and I know what that feeling or that thought is that I want to share and expand upon, then I feel very comfortable because I know what I'm developing and to me that's more important than feeling like my to-do list is free, so that way I am free to sit down with my time and write songs. It's to know what I'm writing about and then I'll make time for it. But I think you're absolutely right, there has to be a sense of here's why I'm here a sense of freedom, a sense of inability to lock in and be led by creativity. In that respect, well.
Speaker 2:The other ironic aspect of creativity is that it does require some type of discipline, which is completely counterintuitive to the nature of it, because creativity, by nature, is really spontaneous, able to build an environment as well as a schedule that permits the most amount of opportunities possible for those types of experiences in our heads to be able to happen. And people? I forget who's the author I'm thinking it's not Spielberg, it's Stephen King. He writes an unearthly amount of books and does an unearthly amount of writing in a single day that I cannot possibly comprehend, but you know, that's his one goal and his focus.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But he's very disciplined about it. He says I have to do this by the end of the day period and then he produces some of his greatest works that way and you know, he runs really really well off of that. And artists sometimes, I think, don't they underestimate the amount of work that they will be able to get done if they are disciplined, because I think the crux of creativity is that it's really seductive. It's really seductive because it's so pleasurable to experience when it spontaneously happens and they kind of rely on that spontaneous spontaneity a little bit too much. And I think that's where, you know, discipline is certainly, I think, something artists can benefit from more if they, if they try to pursue it instead of creativity, ironically, because creatively we're naturally creative, you know, we're spontaneous in that way. So adding that other axis of it, I think it just unleashes it.
Speaker 1:There is a book that if you haven't read you should read. It really hits on this. It's called the spark and the grind and it talks. Sometimes you gotta grind your spark, sometimes you gotta spark your grind. You need to give creativity room to be spontaneous, but you have to grind out processes that will help you create good work, because the best way to get past writer's block is to write. That's just how you beat it. You're not going to sit around waiting for lightning to strike you in the head and write something good. That's when I write my best songs. But when I sit down and I force myself to write and try to be inspired, what I write is most likely going to be really bad, but it puts me in a state mentally where throughout that day and throughout that week, I am more open to good inspiration that I can use.
Speaker 2:Yeah, inspiration. Inspiration is the thing I think creatives crave the most, because it's similar to the feeling of when you first fall in love, or something like that. It has that onset that just completely overwhelms you, at least for a very, very brief moment, and then whatever happens after that, you know, tends to skew toward the term, I would say, seduction. You know where it's like okay, we'll keep coming, keep coming over here you know, let's go.
Speaker 1:I wish, I wish I could tell you how I get inspired. That is what I can't control. I can tell you my creative process all day.
Speaker 2:We would love to be able to control it, though, if we could.
Speaker 1:But inspiration is something where I look for it and I open the door to creativity so inspiration can walk in through the open door. But inspiration is something where man, that is my muse, I don't know if I'm ever going to understand inspiration.
Speaker 2:Tell me a little bit about your songwriting process.
Speaker 1:How do you?
Speaker 2:make a song feel fresh when pop punk is somewhat repetitious by nature. You know, it's kind of a little bit of an oxymoron, but it really isn't.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sometimes the idea would be to take a song and run with it and let it be what it wants to be. I think with letting go, that was the fastest.
Speaker 1:I've sat down written the song and said cool, and then taken it to the studio and then recorded it all within I want to say two months, and then I have songs like I guess where I first started writing that song years ago, forgot about it in a voice memo because I thought the lyrics were stupid, showed it to one of my friends during a song co-writing session, was told the lyrics actually resonated and were good. Reinvestigated. The song came to it with fresh ears. Then I rewrote part of it to where in the second verse it kind of almost goes into a rap rock portion before the chorus comes back. That is both more of a modern take, I would say, on music and at the same time very fresh in terms of maybe pop punk.
Speaker 1:With that, thoughess and I cool in we, we ride the line between pop music and then rock. We're like heavier pop where people will hear us on instagram and say, oh, that's pop punk, you guys are pop punk. If you go back to classic pop punk music, I don't. I think we're very different. If you, if we were having an honest conversation, and even if we have one now, I wouldn't describe us as pop punk. I would say soft stone hearts is heavy alt pop or maybe arguably pop rock. I'm not going to argue with anybody who says that we're pop punk. If they like pop punk music and they like us, more power to you. But to answer your question, when we're drawing from different styles and we're pulling in different genres, I think we naturally will chase different creative elements and blends that feel fresh or, at the very least, interesting and authentic to the song that we're writing and recording okay, how do you filter through bad ideas when it comes to collaborating with jess?
Speaker 1:at this point I feel that I've really developed my internal filter where if an idea is bad, I will catch it fairly early and I've developed an intuition for what is worth working on. I will start probably 10 or 11 songs for every one or two good ones that I really pursue and develop. There's a secondary filter where I send them to jess and whatever we end up working on is not only more likely to be good but it's something we can really meet each other with creatively. There are a lot of songs that jess will either send to me or I'll send to her and we end up not really developing them other with creatively. There were a lot of songs that jess will either send to me or I'll send to her and we end up not really developing them, and I think there's.
Speaker 1:I haven't really thought about that too hard, but on the surface I would say there's a natural interplay there where if there was more going on creatively in our collaboration, that song probably wouldn't have fallen off and gotten forgotten about now. Maybe my filter is a little too strong, where I caught, I guess, in that filter and thought it was bad for a long time before I came back and realized that this song had a lot of potential. Has that external filter that?
Speaker 2:you've developed with collaborating with Jess affected your internal filter when you're working on things by yourself, or have they stayed pretty separate?
Speaker 1:I will still write a lot of songs and I will let my ideas be unfiltered in private and be bad, be cheesy, be way off, kilter from what I would normally release because I like to be writing and creating. The difference then becomes becomes would this make sense to release with soft stone hearts? Is this a song that would be worth pursuing and developing? And I will send jess a lot of ideas that are way off and I will often tell her this is way off from what we would probably want to work on, but I wanted to share it. I think a better.
Speaker 1:I think the real question is not my filter for bad songs but my ability to take an idea and say and say it's not bad, this is worth working on, because I would usually default to saying this song is not something I want to pursue and develop and release. My default is to say this song is just for fun, the song is not good 's, it's not a good reflection of what we want to do creatively, and it takes a lot for me to really believe in a song and want to develop that further and release it and have that be part of our body of work. So, yeah, maybe that felt maybe my standard for that is pretty high. I'm I'm not afraid to work on a bad idea when I release. I'm terrified of it when I'm writing.
Speaker 2:When I'm writing, I'm terrified of it, like, but I'm like when I'm going to sit down to write it, generally I have a pretty good mapped out idea of, you know, the different uh structures that I kind of want to follow. Um, but sitting down and just free flowing, it is not something that I'm great at. I have to. Really, when I'm, when I'm sitting down to write, I have thought through this script a billion times and like, rewritten it and written and rewritten it in my head, and then I sit down to try to write the final version. You know, because there are some writers that try to write the first draft and like it's just the first draft.
Speaker 2:I'm like, why are you sitting down to write the first draft? And they're like it's just the first draft. I'm like, why are you sitting down to write the first draft? I can do the first draft in my head pretty clearly. Why would you spend that time doing the first draft when you can kind of get through it in your head? But not everyone's like that. I'm not saying I'm great for it, it's just the fact that it's just how my brain works, you know Well.
Speaker 1:I think it takes a level of experience to get there, because for me, I let the song speak to me as I'm writing it and tell me what it wants to be there might be. I'm sure there are plenty of songwriters and musicians would sit down and say something similar to you. Yeah, I know what the song is going to be in my head. Why would you sit down and write the draft and let it speak to you? Why would you sit down and write the draft and let it speak to you? Those script writers are probably sitting down and discovering, developing what the concept is as they write the first draft, and then they can go back and make changes. If you've got the concept in your head, you don't need that.
Speaker 1:That's not me. Again, there's no hard and fast rule, but typically I have to sit down with one idea, develop it, see what the point of view is, what the angle is, what else there is to explore, and I can't. I'm trying not to forget the idea that's in my head, and then not only am I incapable of developing it further while I'm trying so hard, just not to forget what the melody and lyric line is. But even if I know I have that locked in, I have to sit down and give it room to breathe. I have to take it off of my conscious mind and get it on paper to give my brain room to explore the concept more fully.
Speaker 1:So it sounds like we're different in that respect.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it sounds well, if I can paraphrase attempt to paraphrase you it sounds like you're very sensory oriented. You know you have to get down there and actually start messing with the thing. You got to feel it, you got to smell it, you got to hear it in order to actually, you know, you got to sense the texture of what you're trying to mess with and the more you feel it as you're working with it then you know, the more you realize what you want to do with the thing you know.
Speaker 2:So you're very kind of like. It's almost like first person you know, as opposed to like, where I'm kind of thinking more third person and I'm sitting in the background, kind of like, okay, what about?
Speaker 1:all these things and I have to get it first person. I have to get it out of my brain and feel it in my gut.
Speaker 2:Well, now I'm hungry.
Speaker 1:Go grab some pizza after this buddy.
Speaker 2:But, um, yeah, no, it's. Creativity is one of those things that it's just, it's a fun mystery to try to figure out and then, as soon as you try, you think you figured it out.
Speaker 1:It's like all right I'm not gonna do that anymore, I'm just gonna switch things up on you and then you're just like.
Speaker 2:I thought I figured you out.
Speaker 1:It's like well, you did, now I'm gonna change you know, and I think part of that is leveling up to where, when I was writing my first batch of songs, which my writing has changed and evolved so much. Thankfully, I'm glad I'm not writing songs the same level I used to, but creativity and inspiration have changed. The way I find them, the way I write has shifted quite a bit. And that's good because it means I'm changing, I'm growing, I'm evolving and my skill set around songwriting is shifting and changing and evolving. It's effervescent, but that means I'm on this constant change where I want to level up. I want to write better music, I want to write better lyrics. I I want to level up, I want to write better music, I want to write better lyrics, I want to find new angles to explore and new things to try, and I mean that just means I'm going to have to find inspiration in new places. My creative process is going to be different, which is not predictable, but that's part of the adventure, that's half the fun.
Speaker 2:Tell me a little bit about your delve into at least light content creation, just to be able to market the music itself, because that's something I've thought about too. But like I don't like do I have the time for that. What I want to invest the time for, that, you know, it's just, you know, because you have to put yourself out there a little bit more, maybe as a music artist than maybe you do as a filmmaker, because a filmmaker is like I'm going to go work on this thing for a really long time and then I'm gonna come out and then hopefully it like causes a big, a proportional shock wave to the amount of work that I put into it. That's sort of the bet you make as a filmmaker, but with artists and or like a music people. You know, maybe you got like an album with 12 songs on or something like that. It's like, okay, I'm gonna you you're more like a fully loaded magazine where I'm trying to fire a missile.
Speaker 1:It's interesting, we actually don't really do albums. I would love to get signed to a label or get management and have enough funding that we can sit down and record a full-length album. We will do a number of singles every year, because that is what Jess and I can afford to do, and we will push each single as hard as we can. But with that, as I've gotten more into content creation, a lot of the content I see is other musicians and other creatives, and I have seen some filmmakers that will either show part of their film as a teaser or show the concept and vibe it's about, or part of their creative process of an upcoming film. Man, I think the double-edged sword of social media and of content is that you can reach anyone. That is how you reach audiences now for most things, and if you want people to know about you, you really have to be posting content. Otherwise it's going to be your network, it's going to be your family, your friends than them. But for soft stone hearts, really only having our friends and family to start out as our fan base, we've had to post content to find people that like pop punk, that like pop rock, that are open to blending different styles of pop and rock music together into what we hope is something fresh and and innovative and fun and resonant. So so once I started making content, it was actually so. I started making content because our singer had quit the band. I had learned to sing so that way I could become the new front man for Softstone Arts. Jess and I switched to being a two-piece, so me on vocals and guitar and then Jess on drums. And as I stepped into that it became a lot easier to make content because I'm the face of the band. It shows I'm the one who's singing the lyrics. So now I can sing the songs on camera. I couldn't do that if it was somebody else singing. So that made logistically, that made it a lot more realistic and it just made more sense to start making content. But I also had no clue what I was doing. So I started researching other artists and seeing what they were doing. That was working. What they were doing that wasn't working.
Speaker 1:But ultimately the biggest thing is you can sit there and study content. You can sit there and study film. You can sit there and study songwriting all day, every day, for so long, can sit there and study songwriting all day, every day for so long. But until you just sit down and do it, it's all just head knowledge and you're gonna learn a lot just by putting yourself out there and trying. So I didn't know anything about lighting, I didn't know anything about hooks and, to be honest, I really still don't. I've got a ton to learn but by sitting down and just taking action, which again is how soft stone hearts started. So I think the big thing I've learned from all of this is learn what you need to do to take intelligent action to start, but then just go for it. It's 80 action, 20 knowledge, if not more, weighted towards action.
Speaker 2:What's the next phase of music creation when it comes to, you know, doing Soft Stone Hearts as an entity that you're hoping to try to get up to Like what's the next level you're trying to go to?
Speaker 1:Next level. Man, that's interesting. I don't even know if I can look at a level that we could hit and say this is my goal. I'm in love with the process. I love writing songs. I love getting into a room with a really good producer and just working. I love doing shows in the community that that creates. So for me, I think it's about continuing to stay true to the process and do what we're doing on the process side, but better.
Speaker 1:I want to write better songs. I want them to have better hooks. I want the instrumentation to be even tighter. I want to play better shows with higher energy.
Speaker 1:I want to think about the content I'm making and say how can I make this more fun to watch? How can I make this more fun to watch? How can I make this more engaging? If I can do that, I think we'll get to the next level, whatever that is. If that means going from, however many followers we have to 10xing that, if that means getting signed, if that means touring, great. If we step up what we are doing on our end and make it better and it looks completely different than those things, that's cool too.
Speaker 1:All I can control is showing up, doing my best and trying to be better. Beyond that, our monthly listeners on Spotify could continue to hang out at 2,000. They could get up to 200,000. I don't know, I'm not chasing that. I'm chasing trying to be better, build something people will resonate with and then continue trying to just build community and give people something that they that will speak to them it seems like actually your section or your genre, your mix of you know, the overall punk genre, actually seems to be making a little bit of a comeback.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry you're going in and out. Can you start that question over, Sorry?
Speaker 2:How is it now?
Speaker 1:It's better you were saying your genre and then you whiffed, just broke up into pixels Poof, yep, he's back, yep, he's back.
Speaker 2:Well, it seems like to me that the punk genre and the other mixes that come with it is actually kind of making a comeback lately, would you?
Speaker 1:agree with that statement. Tell me how you came to that conclusion.
Speaker 2:Why do you think punk is making a comeback? Because I don't follow it really, um, but for some reason I am seeing more punk artists show up in my feed, so like I'm on the other end of the algorithm. You know that kind of shouldn't be getting this because I don't follow or even like anything you know in in that scene. Not that I don't like, dislike the music or anything like that. You know it depends on I'm so offended.
Speaker 2:We can never talk again I mean, it's not my main go-to, but like you know I it's like a yeah I like, I like the poppy type punk, you know, but it's, you know it does it. It's really, really fun, but it does get repetitive. So like I'll listen to it like every now and then if I like a want like an energy boost or something like that, you know. But I've been getting more of it in my feed for no reason that I can, you know, accurately deduce.
Speaker 1:So your thought is, if more of it is showing up in your feed when it shouldn't. Given your algorithm, the only logical conclusion is that punk must be coming back into the mainstream.
Speaker 1:So the algorithm is thinking everybody likes this right now, so you probably like it too, that that, yeah, more or less that's what I'm thinking. Yeah, yeah, I think maybe five or six years ago there was a pretty big resurgence of of, I want to say, pop punk, whatever what it is now a little bit more pop rock, I would say, just with my classic 2000s pop punk roots. I thought that slowed down a little bit. But with warp tour coming back in its new form, there may be a little bit more of a nostalgia kick there where these classic pop punk bands are coming back. You know All-American Rejects is doing their crazy cool house show tour.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're doing. That was cool actually. I saw that and I'm like that's just fun.
Speaker 1:I think they're gearing up to do something big in the next year and this is them laying the foundation to have their fan base just complete. Just really fan the flame. Get everybody so stoked over all american rejects. If they do a stadium tour next year, I'll go see them, yeah I want to go to one of their house shows, but I'm just not on the list. I guess I don't know. All american rejects. If you're seeing this, text me your next house show I will. I will fly, drive, I'll be there hit me up.
Speaker 2:I heard of also.
Speaker 1:I'd love to open for you when you tour.
Speaker 2:I did watch an interview actually because they were making a resurgence lately. He said that the hardest thing as an artist actually is that when I was going to create as I was growing up, I wanted to create different. I wanted to tell stories through songs about different things in my life. The thing that kind of pigeonholed him a little bit was just the classic teenager heartbreak and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1:He only knew life on the road. He took 10 years off of the band so that way he would have more lived life to write about. He feels like he's in a much better spot now.
Speaker 1:Which is crazy, which may be, ironically enough, an advantage right now for me creatively, where I would have told you I want to make it in music years ago. But I'm living a normal life working, hanging out with friends, building my community and doing all of that while also doing music on the side. So I have all of this life to write about, and I don't know what it's like to be on the road with a band touring I. I don't that's so foreign to me, so I'm just taking my experiences and then turning them into something that I can share with other people well also I don't know why, but it seems like a lot of um punk tends to come out of the midwest, and I don't know why.
Speaker 2:I don't know why because all we have.
Speaker 1:All we have in ohio are cornfields. You can either leave or write emo punk songs about about life and cope one way or the other and I am still in ohio so I have chosen to go the I'm coping through angsty music route so I don't know, but I love music so I'm glad that's the way that I went.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, I think honestly, ohio, as far as Midwest goes, is the least Midwest state but it has an outfit where it still qualifies as being part of the family, you know. But Ohio is kind of like one of those, honestly, it's like I'm fine with it being a joke on the Internet because that means people aren't going to move to our state and ruin it, because it's actually a really nice state, you know, especially if you live near the metropolitan areas you know of, like you know Cincinnati, columbus, you know Dayton, ohio, where the Wright brothers were, yeah, and you know up toward, you know Cleveland. Even Then it's actually really nice and there's a lot of really nice areas like Hocking Hills. It's absolutely beautiful.
Speaker 2:It shouldn't belong in a Midwest state when you think of Midwest.
Speaker 1:You know, cincinnati, columbus, dayton I can't speak to Cleveland specifically, but Cincinnati, dayton and Columbus have really good music scenes, really solid, just creative networks of people that are working there.
Speaker 2:That's really really cool and a huge blessing. The local comedy scene also has has boomed lately that's what I've heard.
Speaker 1:I I need to go to more comedy shows yeah, they're all they're in columbus.
Speaker 2:They're all they're like they're. They're really taken off. There's a lot of shows that are going on in columbus right now let's do a road trip.
Speaker 1:One other thing I really want to do with jess at some point is make some content where we show people not just our music side but our cincinnati ohio inside. Do a skyline chili review and show all the people who have never had cincinnati chili what they're missing. Um, I don't know. I think that would be cool. Show some cincinnati culture, some honestly dude.
Speaker 2:You just read a song about that. It's called You're Missing Out.
Speaker 1:And then include as a promo of just Skyline.
Speaker 2:It's like you're missing out on the Midwest.
Speaker 1:I would call it Emperor's New Clothes how everybody in Cincinnati has this conspiracy that Skyline is good and it's nasty. I'm just kidding. No, I do not like skyline. Sorry guys, this is meat sauce, but I think of chili. I think of something in a bowl that you eat with a spoon what is this? It's a chili dog. It's not the same thing but.
Speaker 2:I digress.
Speaker 1:I have very strong feelings on this topic, sir I mean honestly like gold star.
Speaker 2:For the most part it's the same as Skyline.
Speaker 1:It's the same thing. It's the same thing.
Speaker 2:I mean. Skyline is just like. They have a little bit more like self-respect as a business. Gold Star is like well, we'll put the Gold Star right next to the Waffle House and then you know, we'll just hire whoever and be like. But no, skyline is like no, we are a premium, even though we're the exact same.
Speaker 1:It's nicer to be at Skyline, but it's the same thing as Gold Star. That's what I'm hearing.
Speaker 2:Basically yeah.
Speaker 1:They're not that different. They're the same thing. It's all branding.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly. But then you know Blue Ash Chili well, that's Target. Yeah, exactly. But then you know blue ash chili, well, that's.
Speaker 1:Target, you know? Ah, I got you. Cincinnatians will know, the real ones will know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we know. Well, I got one final question that I want to ask you before I say goodbye and I miss you for the rest of the day.
Speaker 1:Oh buddy.
Speaker 2:Oh God, where is it? It's a great question. Where the freak did it go?
Speaker 1:I've got one for you as well, you have one for me.
Speaker 2:I'm going to totally put you on the spot.
Speaker 1:What is your favorite Soft Stone Hearts song?
Speaker 2:I liked, which one. I listened to it this morning when I was prepping for the podcast. It Is what it is.
Speaker 1:That's a good one. Yeah, that is the one that most people would go to. It's our most popular song today.
Speaker 2:Oh is it.
Speaker 1:It's fun.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:I guess our newest song is beating it out in terms of popularity over the past month since we released it, but overall it is what it is. It'll get beat out by a song after it gets released, but then it just comes back and it's our top song on Spotify.
Speaker 2:I found it yeah.
Speaker 1:All right, what you got for me.
Speaker 2:What about music makes it worth the headaches and heartbreaks?
Speaker 1:Yeah, again. Just to go back, I think, to the beginning of the podcast. Music really spoke to me when I needed it, when I was young and just resonated with me and gave me words to articulate feelings and things that I just didn't have the words for at the time. And being able to give that back to somebody else whenever we get a comment saying, hey, we had somebody who commented on one of our posts. I was going through a panic attack at 2 am and I opened up Spotify and Letting Go popped up as a new release and that's exactly what I needed. I would like to think that there's a lot more people that our music is that for them, and only a few of them comment and let us know, comment and let us know. But knowing that there are some people out there where our music is able to meet them in the moment when they need it, that's what keeps me going. That's why I got into music and that's why I keep at it.
Speaker 2:I love it. I love it. Well, Chase, it's been great catching up with you. Thanks for coming on. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1:And Anthony, thanks for letting me be on your podcast. This was a lot of fun coming on.
Speaker 2:I appreciate it and, anthony, thanks for letting me be on your podcast. This was a lot of fun.