Focal Point
Conversations with artists across all industries, taking a deep dive into the nuances, techniques, and philosophies of society's talent.
Focal Point
Challenges of Art Department #48 w/ Production Designer Stephonika Kaye
Production designer Stephonika Kaye shares how she transforms empty spaces into story-driven environments, drawing on her 15-year journey from community theater actor to filmmaking. She reveals the often-invisible work behind film sets—like painting props between takes, navigating shifting director demands, and designing full spaces even when only one angle is promised.
Through on-set chaos, interdepartmental collaboration, and creative improvisation, Stephonika offers a rare look into the world of production design turning abstract concepts into tangible plans.
Yeah, well, one of the other things that I was looking at, your work, because I was I first was familiar with you because of Bag of Lies, you know.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, yeah.
Speaker 1:And then I saw the and then I think I briefly saw you at Winter Film in passing, and then I saw that you were attached to a bunch of different work and one of the similarities that I kind of picked up about somebody who's more specialized and, although you do acting as well and we can talk about that, you're also a production designer and an art designer on most of the things that you're in, as well as other projects. Do I got that right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, because I feel like I tend to kind of only act in stuff that I'm, like crew, connected with as well.
Speaker 1:So yeah, Is it mostly friends, or you do get cold called to do things too?
Speaker 2:Um, it's mostly, mostly my, my core group of friends and filmmakers, and whatnot. It's like, hey, we're doing this thing, you want to, you want to help, and whatnot. It's like, hey, we're doing this thing, you want to help.
Speaker 1:I'm like, yeah, okay, I'm free that weekend. I mean, you've been doing this for like what? Six or seven years, this filmmaking in general, depending on where you want to count it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's more than professionally, more than 10. So probably like 11 or 12. But 15 overall, yeah 15.
Speaker 1:Well, how old are you?
Speaker 2:my goodness, such a forward young man. Um no, I'm 36 okay, that added up.
Speaker 1:Well, I couldn't I saw. Well, I saw like, uh, some things you had on your personal channel, and then I saw, you know, the things that you've recently done on your imdb. I wasn't sure like, okay, is this where it starts or does it stretch back even further? Because it just starts at a certain point when you know you could be doing it. But uh, how did you get started in it? Was it just something that you got you know doing in high school and then?
Speaker 2:um, I mean my, my high school. I grew up, I grew up in west virginia, so my high school didn't really have like, uh, like a film program, um, but I always was interested in films. I was more interested in writing. I thought I'd be a novelist, you know um, but then I I found movies and then I saw, uh, lord of the rings, uh, and I'm like, yeah, okay, I want to do that. Um, uh, so fellowship kind of converted me to like, I want to, I want to direct. I don't want to want to just act because I did like community theater and whatnot when I was growing up um, like I don't, I don't want to just be an actor, I want to make that magic happen. Was that acting, something you wanted?
Speaker 1:to do, and then you transitioned. It was.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was. I wanted to be an actor and, like you said, I still do a little bit of that here and there.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I, you know, behind the camera at this point why did you decide to switch more to more behind the scenes roles, as opposed to the thing that initially got you interested into it?
Speaker 2:I think it was, I think it was the writer in me, I think I had stories to tell, um, and uh, you know it's's, it's it's and it's easier to you know, uh, act when you make your own opportunities, you know. So then you get to be the characters you want to play, rather than you know what other people are, are writing. So I think it was more like the writing aspect. That was like, yeah, okay, like I want to take this a step further from just from just the acting on stage.
Speaker 1:I want to like, I want to be the writer, I want to be the director well, mine was a slightly different case, because when I was growing up, um, uh, in the early days of youtube, the thing that was really popular was the stop motion lego videos and, uh, I was a big lego guy yeah actually I still have them back over there.
Speaker 1:Um and uh, uh. That's what got me interested in filmmaking is I started making those little stop motion videos and I'm like well, okay, I'm 13 years old and I have a backyard in my mom's video camera as opposed to. Well, I could build whatever sort of world that I want, you know and then at least I'll have that option. So, like you know, I can kind of sympathize with that. I want you know and then at least I'll have that option.
Speaker 1:So, like you know, I can kind of sympathize with that particular um you know, sentiment, but uh well I'm not sure if I want to get started on uh your acting, but I think I do want to get uh into your um. You know your production design because, like sound people in sound, there's not too many people who just focus on like art and production design, which is probably why you have a larger body of work that's listed, and because you're do you find yourself being in high demand um, yes and no, um, I think it's common.
Speaker 2:I think it's, I think it's a common mistake that a lot of whenever I see, for instance, posts like growing up, I see all of the technical jobs and I rarely ever see, you know, you might see hair and makeup, but you rarely ever see like costume designer and production designer, because I feel like a lot of people, um, and I may even be mistaken, but uh it, it feels like a lot of people are just like, okay, well, we'll, we'll just do that part together, we'll, we'll raid the actor's closet and we'll just shoot what's that location? And kind of like, judge some things here and there. So I, I feel like it's kind of like it's actually a little uh, the opposite of that. Where there's, there's a less demand for it. I feel like in indie sphere, and it's just like you know if, if people are making their own stuff, they're generally trying to cop it together. You know themselves and whatnot, but uh, but, uh, but on the bigger, on the bigger stuff, it's yeah, it's a lot easier to kind of get in with that. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Can we narrow down a little bit like, uh, explicitly, what you do more as a production designer, because that that role tends to be kind of a a catch-all term, depending on what you're being asked to do within a particular uh, you know project. Where, where do you find yourself tend to be asked to do more specifically in terms of your role as a production designer, like, what are the general expectations that you know people more often have, more often than not?
Speaker 2:What a question. I think it's also depending on the scope of the project. Uh, the role kind of changes, um, because you know, sometimes you're being asked to do do an indie feature or a short film and you're just a department of one you might have like one person um other than yourself in the department.
Speaker 2:But there's a lot of projects that I've done where it's just that it is a catch-all, like you do, you know you're planning the set deck, you're gathering all the props which you know it's. It goes beyond just doing kind of like the planning and the sourcing and the look books and you know figure and talking with the director of like okay, well, uh, you know what's your vision, what can we? Kind of it goes. It goes beyond like more, uh, like the meetings and the budgeting and all of that you have to like you're the onset labor yourself.
Speaker 1:You, you know you're swinging the hammers, you're painting the paintings as well as being your own producer, essentially because normally you get asked to be able to. You know you can. You're going to take care of art. It's like, yeah, but are you someone going to help me with? Not? No, you're going to do it yourself. As opposed to the producer for the rest of the crew, you get left alone.
Speaker 2:I mean not really. I mean it depends what you mean as far as a producer, because I mean you know, producers tend to on smaller films, like the producers tend to be also the director. I feel like. So it's a lot easier to kind of like communicate, like, okay, well, this is yeah, like this is your vision. It's gonna cost this amount of money. And then it's like do we have that money or don't we? Can we scrounge up a little more? Um or what, what, what do we need to cut out, like to actually make it work within means?
Speaker 1:what was the most unrealistic request that you've gotten from a director or a producer and that they were serious about you trying to achieve within their budget oh gosh, um, I don't know about something.
Speaker 2:A lot I don't know about, like one particular example, but a thing that often happens um, you know, because you're planning, planning, planning, you have all these, you know you have, you have everything that was mentioned in the script and in all the meetings you know made and you're you're addressing the set and then you know um director comes to, you know check out the set and you know give the stamp of approval before we actually start shooting. If you actually have the time to do that, usually it's like day up, okay, yeah, I like it, or change this. Um, but a lot of times, uh, it happens a lot that you'll be asked for something like do you have, do we have blah, blah, blah, and it's just like no, no, I don't have that, and it could be just something really weird and off the wall. But sometimes it's a kooky request and it's like give me 10 minutes and I'll come back to you and see if I can like pull that out of my ass.
Speaker 1:Is there one example that specifically comes to your mind? I should. I can only think of like instances where I've been asked for like a graphic or like some different piece of art? Does it tend to be more of a time restraint?
Speaker 2:or like a budget and material restraint. It's usually a time restraint because you know, if you're being asked for something that you don't have on set, then it's just like like okay, I don't have time or the resources to make that in, uh, 15 minutes. Nor do I have time to go buy something because we might be, you know, 20 minutes away from kind of like a like, like prosthetics with makeup yeah yeah, um the yeah.
Speaker 1:It takes like 45 minutes to just not just like put it on, but also like get everything together and everything they're like. Can we change? One little thing or something like that and it's like do we have time to redo all of it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, do you have 45 minutes?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, is there a department that you find ends up getting more time than they need, as opposed? To departments like yours, where they don't get enough time at all, because I'm thinking about all the time spent. There's a leak somewhere, usually in the production, about where time is actually getting allocated, which is what backs up things when a problem actually occurs.
Speaker 2:So that's sort of the intention behind the question, um, I mean, if we're talking on set, uh, you'll, I mean there's, there's an ongoing, I feel like usually friendly but sometimes not so depending on the person a feud between cinematographers and production designers. Um, because, you know, everybody wants the fancy camera and the lenses and do these fun like camera movements and whatnot, but it's always like I kind of always come back to that like that's great, but are you shooting a white wall or did you give me time to, like, you know, dress the space and whatnot? And I think I mean, as far as like different departments getting time over another, departments getting time over another, um, I think it depends on the production. Um, because you'll, you'll sometimes get, uh, dps, even sometimes directors that spend, um, you know, a lot of time on. You know the blocking which they should, um or um, you know adjusting lights or or whatever, not um, and then you're not supposed to get in the way when you need to like adjust things.
Speaker 2:You know, you know in in art department, you can't like get in the way, but then it's like some, some sets run so quickly that, um, you're working on top of each other or you have to take turns and not everybody might get to take their turn. So when it comes time for oh, the lights are finally set and I can step into frame, I have like 20 seconds to adjust something and I have to like hop in and out very quickly. So you just kind of like, as you as you gain, kind of like experience, you kind of see what kind of set you're on and what kind of time you're going to be allotted and you kind of quickly learn when you can sneak in when other things are happening and when to get out of the way and like when you're actually going to have time you just kind of like you on set or something.
Speaker 1:That's what.
Speaker 2:That's what it feels like you work, like I'm so terrified to not disturb anything and like who traumatized you and it's it's not usually the director um, it'll usually be like your ad, or um you know the dp, because the dp needs to communicate with you know the lighting team and whatnot, and if you're, if you're in the shot like frame it, you know redoing something, of course they can't do their job. So you just kind of like you have some people that are nice about it and other others that aren't so nice about it. It's like, well, we all, just we all need to do the thing when we're on an indie set, because we're not going to have time after you're done.
Speaker 1:To be fair, though, if your AD isn't always pissed off at something, he's probably not a very good AD.
Speaker 2:I think that's a common misconception. I don't know.
Speaker 1:I've worked with a couple ADs that keep their cool, because there's always something going wrong. You know that way, if you know, a good ad is always able to like, pivot and shift on the photo to where something needs more focus oh sure, sure, and I think I think the best ads can do that without being an asshole.
Speaker 2:um, I think there's a common misconception that ads have to be an asshole, and I don't think that's true.
Speaker 1:Well, I was just joking.
Speaker 2:One person's opinion, I mean.
Speaker 1:You have a close friend who's a really good AD, and that isn't an asshole.
Speaker 2:I do.
Speaker 1:That's exactly what I knew. I knew that's what it was. I love you, victoria. There's no way that you could come on here and not disagree with me on his behalf, or their behalf, or her behalf. Victoria, she's lovely what's like the most. How often are you doing the prop yourself you? Are you normally getting some sort of sort of help with that in terms of their creation or their accumulation?
Speaker 2:oh props yeah um, it happened.
Speaker 2:um, it kind of on indies especially, it kind of um comes together with with set deck, Generally like props, is a sub department within the art department that you know you'll have a you know department head working on that side of things and then you just communicate and make sure that everything's cohesive. But it happens a lot just because because of you know the the just budget region reasons. You know it's like you know you might. I think I think the common um amount of people that I'll normally get like on a, uh, an indie feature is probably counting myself probably between three and four people. Um, so I'll have, I'll have you know, and but we're all kind of doing everything together. We might have somebody that's just like okay, well, you focus on props, but I'm still going to be over here, Like if I find it, if I find a thing, like I'll let you know, and then we, you know, we work to.
Speaker 1:you know you have to work together when you have so few people how would you describe your process for being able to address um, the director's creativity, um, and how he wants to approach a particular scene, to look or other flow?
Speaker 1:You know, because whatever you end up, um doing as a production designer, you're also working with cinematography to make sure that it's set up in a place where lighting is actually really, really good. You know there's a there's a large synergy between you and the cinematographer in terms of not just how you set the scene but also how you light it, cause one thing goes off at the other, um, and that ends up being often the thing that takes the most amount of time that I think directors don't necessarily account for when it's on set. Yeah, if someone is trying to get into production design, what do you think you would tell them in terms of how to approach your job with appropriate amount of efficiency, because a lot of creativity can sometimes cause a jam when it comes to being efficient, because you're getting so many possibilities that you could do so there's a balance between just the job, and you know the more artistic style of the job.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, this is a loaded question.
Speaker 1:I've got like six more.
Speaker 2:There were like three questions in one.
Speaker 1:We'll finish this off with a good gaslighting too.
Speaker 2:I'll try to address everything. Just a light gaslighting, yeah, I guess, to answer those questions, to answer those questions kind of start. It really comes down to, you know, just communication, the first conversations and stuff that you have. So what I, what I like to do, is I'll have a series of questions that I'll ask the director after I read the script for the first time and I'll just kind of like make notes as I go of, like you know, some of my ideas and whatnot. But I like to ask the director I think the first question I ask them is do you have a color scheme in mind? And some, because some directors know exactly what they want and others know it when they see it, um, and some directors have no clue, they're still figuring it out, which is fine above water.
Speaker 2:They're just drowning yeah, I mean that happens in indie filmmaking.
Speaker 1:It's like that's the first rung of people trying to see if this is something they want to do. You know that's just inevitable.
Speaker 2:Exactly, exactly. It's usually the people who are starting out and they're you know they might not know how to work with a production designer or or if it's like their first film and it's just like oh, this is exactly so.
Speaker 2:It's like you have. You have, you know that those, those are like the few and part between uh kind of people but, um, but yeah. So it just starts with a series of questions, like you know, do you have a color scheme in mind? Um, and then, like you know, a lot of indie projects will already have uh locations in mind. So I like to ask if they've done any scouting previously, if they have any locations locked yet, because it's.
Speaker 2:And then it's always like what's the budget? Because you can't know what you're gonna be able to do like scope wise, unless you know how much money is involved in it. You know, if you're doing a project that has, you know, a materials budget of you know a money is involved in it, you know, if you're doing a project that has, you know a materials budget of you know a couple thousand, you're not going to be able to do a whole lot. You're going to be working with the location and whatnot pretty heavily, and then that is going to be what informs how everything looks and how. Maybe, like the costume designer, I think is more important in those cases, because it's like they're the ones that are supplementing what's already there and what can't be changed. But yeah, so I just kind of like to open up with conversations like that and that'll help inform kind of the plan that I then kind of get into.
Speaker 2:And then you know, I spent a lot of time on Pinterest and just Googling different.
Speaker 2:You know color schemes and different ideas and you know if they're like, oh, we want to do it, you know more colonial style, or I don't know more colonial style or I don't know um, you, then you know you, you kind of like you get into like that kind of uh, idea space and just kind of like hone in on these keywords that they might have, um, if they want to. You know venture-esque, then you know you're it's going to be a little darker and um, and so you kind of like have to and that. And then it's kind of like working with the, the dp. So it's like you know asking like do you already have dp who's shooting this? And then I like to talk with them and kind of look at what they've already done to kind of like try to see what their style is. Um, and I think a lot, a lot of indie directors, especially like the short films and what not that I've worked with. They haven't really had some of them. Some of them don't really think about how they're going to color grade it beforehand.
Speaker 1:Yeah, some of them if they are, they're not, they're not both dp and director, because dps that are directing their own films, they know exactly what they want things oh yeah, it's usually just like the directors or the writer directors yeah, exactly, it's usually more like writer directors, I mean.
Speaker 2:I mean a lot of them do, but you know, you'll find, you'll find some people that's just like they kind of like more find it in the edit of what they want, of how they want to color it, and then it's like, okay, well, that just negated all of the work that we did on that or they don't color.
Speaker 1:That's happened to me. I've seen some. Uh, they just don't color it at all if they're just getting like started they didn't even uncompress the footage, they just let it be like raw compressed yeah, but yeah, it really just like.
Speaker 2:You just have to communicate with the different department heads and you know I've learned. You know, two of the main conversations you're going to have with the the DP is is about practicals and, um, if there are windows in the room, uh, what kind of window treatments or curtains or or whatever not you're going to work with which? Which typically they want? You know shears and a little bit of that light. You know, coming in and you kind of get a feel for, like, exactly what off white color and texture to get that looks best. Um, even though they're like, just get some options, like I know exactly the one that you're gonna pick, though, so I'm gonna get that one we had a conversation about this.
Speaker 1:This was pre-production we already know yeah or directors, just forgetting what the what, what like, uh, whatever it is they discuss with you because it was never like there's no, there's no, like text over it, like a lot of a lot of um, I don't know, maybe maybe you may or may not be an exception to this, but a lot of people who, uh, are more focused on the physicality of art. You know people who, like you, know either paint or you know they do some type of wordworking. People who deal with actual material they tend to be very verbal because they need to describe what it is they're actually touching, because there's an extra sensory attached to it. However, directors, they tend to, ironically, not always be the most verbal in terms of the way that they, you know, they communicate, and so there ends up being this disconnection between, uh, what they think they said and what actually was said, or even if anything at all and sometimes I can get a little they've also got.
Speaker 2:They've also got a lot of different things going on. You know they're thinking shot lists and costumes and like they've, they've got a lot going on. So I feel like if it's not written down somewhere, because I have had some directors where it's like, oh, why did we go with this here? Well, you remember the tech scout, we talked about this, that the other thing and like oh, oh, yeah, okay, I've definitely had that happen the.
Speaker 1:The files are getting restored from their original hard drive.
Speaker 2:Yeah, processing, buffering.
Speaker 1:They get the update. You've worked not just on shorts, but also a few features too right. Yeah, I've had a spread of how to spread other than like the quantity of work. Um, what's what's? Are there any main differences that you have to consider when you're doing the production for a feature versus a short?
Speaker 2:um, the bigger you get, the more paperwork. Um, I remember, uh, I remember my my first like really big uh job as a department head was working on the wrong turn reboot as the set decorator and I shouldn't have been, but I feel like I was surprised at the amount of paperwork and just the amount of meetings and I was like it was. It was definitely a learning experience. So I definitely I think the difference is just you have a lot more, you have a lot more people you have to communicate with and you have a lot more paperwork that comes with the job, like the the bigger that it is, especially if you're a department head like on some of the shows um, you know, like, on like with wrong turn, um, uh, work working with the stunt team.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, because, like, I feel like on a lot of, on a lot of short films, you know, you don't really have a whole lot of- um like a no budget short films you don't really have the resources to like.
Speaker 2:Do you know stunts and whatnot, like that? Um, and then you know you'll, you'll usually like have your producers or whatever not. Um, you know, handle the picture cars and whatnot. So you know you'll usually like have your producers or whatever not you know, handle the picture cars and whatnot. So you know, depending on the needs of the production, you might have to talk about, like, talk with the picture car department, which is this like a subclass of art department or transpo? It's kind of like. But then, yeah, like working with the stunties, um, unlike making making sure that the set is safe with what the actors are interacting with. Um, those, those are the two that kind of come to mind.
Speaker 1:Um, that I usually more work with when it's when it's something bigger but you were specifically a set decorator or were you the head of your department as a production designer?
Speaker 2:I was. I was the set decorator, so I was below the production designer.
Speaker 1:Okay, were there any things that you noticed about the um, you know the head honcho that you had to uh, you know uh, not refer to God. Can, can't talk today that you were under in order to like as a boss. What is there anything that you picked up from them in terms of how they handled having multiple people underneath them?
Speaker 2:Goodness she was. I think it kind of just comes back to that communication part. She would hold, I think it was like weekly meetings just within our department itself just to make sure that everybody was kind of still on the same page. I think just about daily I would kind of like go into her office and we'd kind of talk about, you know, the needs of the day, how this sourcing, this thing was, was going like, how are we doing on this, that the other thing. And she'd meet with, you know, our art coordinator who handled kind of like more budgeting and just keeping track of all the numbers and whatnot. And you know I'd see her meet with the set designer, you know, because we had the foundation set on that. So I, you know they'd be talking about, you know, like this, this little, this design on this piece of thing.
Speaker 1:Maybe we should raise that, and you know how much have you witnessed in terms of their creative differences between people?
Speaker 2:I think I mean it's a rather mean question.
Speaker 1:But you know, sometimes it depends how Not everybody gets along with everybody, you know no. But at the end of the day you do have a job to do. So there has to be some sort of resolution, no matter what.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it can happen. Um, I think I think it can happen, um, but and you know, I think we've definitely all witnessed it Um, but at the end of the day, it's really not at me, definitely not you, um but uh.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I think, I think it's just uh. At the end of the day, even if you have a disagreement on something, at the end of the day it's like what is within budget, what is possible? So I mean you have to come to a compromise. If you're butting heads on something and generally it's you know the person in charge, so you know if I'm butting heads. You know, for instance, if I butt heads with a director on something and I think it should be one thing or the other, all you can do is just remind them of why you are suggesting something. And if they still decide to go with what they want, then it's like okay, we've had the conversation, we'll do it, we'll do it this way because that's what they want, you know okay at the end of the day, it's their.
Speaker 2:It's their vision.
Speaker 1:I'm just here to help facilitate their art well that that ultimately comes down to the responsibility. Of the people are communicating with you because if you can't just say, no, I don't like this, let's try something else. It's like okay, well, now I don't have a direction. You have to actually, you know, use your words and paint, uh, exactly the picture that you have in your head for the other people to be able to replicate. Um, when you're for the set decorator job. Uh, what was it run through? Run through time, so what was?
Speaker 2:the name of it. It was the wrong turn reboot okay, gotcha.
Speaker 1:Um, how often do you end up using this? Tell me about your strategies for the actual workflow in terms of how you approach the creativity of setting up the environment. Sometimes people end up using like an object to start with and then they'll build, you know, their ideas based off of that one central object in the room, or they'll base it off of like a window and how that's set up.
Speaker 1:Do you end up like talking a little, being a little bit clued in on how the shot's going to be composed beforehand, or you try to decorate the set and then you know people will come in and try to see how they want to shoot it, because I've seen directors work both ways yeah, I was about to say it works both ways.
Speaker 2:If you have access to a shot list, then it's, that's great, um, because it will definitely help you um kind of know the main areas that you need to focus on, because for me it for me it always starts with a location like what's the, what's the canvas we're working with here, um, and you know.
Speaker 2:Then at that point it's like okay, what are the key things?
Speaker 2:Are there anything uh mentioned specifically in the script that have to be in this set um, and then you know, you, you kind of get an idea for where those are supposed to be in the set um, because if it's, if it's not explicit in the script, like how these actor, how the characters, are interacting with the space, then you know through that's what I think the the scouting uh is is a really important thing for as well, um, because you know, not just on the the tech scout, because the tech scout usually comes a little later, um, but like on your initial scouts and whatnot, you, you can kind of like walk through it with your director a little bit and you'll both kind of like get ideas of like, oh, this is where the the guitar can sit in the, in the chair next to the window, and then you know your dp might get excited like, oh yeah, we can get like a nice spread of light, like you end up in a chicken or the egg scenario yeah, so it just it just kind of depends, I think, like, uh, how your director and your dp work, because you can come in like uber prepared of what you want to do, but if they wind up kind of like having different ideas of how they want to shoot and and how, then how the director kind of wants to block the actors and whatnot, or even on the day, if the actors, um, you know, come up with some ideas, that kind of like makes the flow of the scene a little better, then it's, you know, you're kind of working within that space too, because I've definitely had projects where, uh, I dress what I, what I call I always dress 360.
Speaker 2:I just assume that the shot list is a lie. Uh, because I have been lied to in the past. Um, I think I was just like I look at it and like this is a great idea. I really hope that we do that, all of that, um, but you always have to like verbally patting them on the head like little boys, like, oh look at what you brought, mommy mommy's so proud of you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, good luck I really, really hope it stays that way. Um, because it's just it, but but that sometimes it's not even their fault. Sometimes you get there on the day and you realize that a shot that you kind of planned on paper, it's just like writing.
Speaker 2:You could write something sure that works really great on paper, but then you actually get on set it's like, oh, this is, this isn't working. The same thing, I think, happens with uh, blocking and planning shots. Like you kind of get there on the day and it's like, oh, maybe we do need to do this a little wider. And then you do wind up seeing more of the room that you were told that, oh, we're not going to see that side of the room and then you know you're not prepared, you don't have anything to put on that wall or um, you just have nothing interesting going on there and you might have already established the room, so you can't just like take from stuff that's already there and just and put it over there. Um, so it's like I've had that happen enough times, where now I'm just like, nope, I'm, I'm just going to dress the room and then you can just that's always my plan, like, if we have the money, like I just I dress the entire room and then they can just shoot whatever, whatever, which way they want.
Speaker 1:And what percentage of the time would you say you have, you know, the budget to actually do that, though?
Speaker 2:70, 30 really I feel like we're 60, 40 um. It's definitely not 50, 50 um. I think I I usually more have, uh, the means to, to dress everything that I need to, because, also now, at this point, my, my kit is also a stock of, you know, different set deck items, like I have. I have a stock of paintings, a stock of um different art pieces and stuff I can put on the wall that I know are, you know, safe and clear. I'm also a painter, so, okay, oh, I lost your picture, but Actually I lost yours too.
Speaker 1:Hold on, I think I had a Okay.
Speaker 2:Maybe I can.
Speaker 1:I wonder if it's my wi-fi and I will okay never mind, there you are. Oh, okay, you're a sideways for a second.
Speaker 2:I can yeah um, but yeah, now, now I've uh built up kind of a stock, so now it's just kind of like well, now I now I have a stock I can pull from, so it's gotten easier, just because I might have that thing on hand. Like I have extra things on hand that I can just be like I'll bring my, I'll bring my metal work, uh, art pieces in, just in case we need them. Um, so I'll have, I'll have a few things on hand that maybe I don't put up on a wall, um, because, because you know, according to the shot list, they're like okay, we're not going to see that side of the room, but having it prepared is always a good idea, because you never know, you just never know.
Speaker 1:What would you say is something that directors and cinematographers can, if they were to know ahead of time, would make things more efficient for both themselves as well as your job.
Speaker 2:I think sometimes people and I think it's not just directors and dps, I think I think some people in general probably don't realize how much uh time it can take to Um. So um, yeah, I mean. So I guess it's just um, or you know, just spitting out an idea of something.
Speaker 2:Um, I always get antsy when, like uh directors, for instance, want to like recreate, like a hospital set um or you know the, the, or I read a script that's clearly like not written for the budget that I know they have, and I'm like, okay, that's gonna be hard to get, that's gonna be hard to get, that's gonna be hard to get, and these are always things that, like, I try to bring up in my first conversation. So I guess, just like um knowing beforehand, I guess, I guess maybe it's just kind of realizing the, the demands or the possibilities or the, um, the difficulties sometimes that are associated with getting some items and props and sets ready. Um, they know it's not really for them to like, it's not their job, like why it's not their job to kind of like know the ins and outs of that. That's why they hire us. But at the same time, I think, like, like, it's kind of like those you know off the wall questions like on set, like, oh, would you happen to have blah, blah, blah? You know that's, that's, I think, when you get that. But it's also like if you don't ask, then you'll never know, because it's like, what if I do happen to have a baseball bat in my car that I just had for no reason, you know? So, um, um, I'm not sure if that answered the question.
Speaker 2:But it's really just, um, like I, for instance, like I don't know all the ins and outs of what goes into, you know, camera department. You know I try to, I try to like sit. Sometimes I'll sit down with the DIT like on set and I'll just like watch his monitor and I'll ask questions like what does that mean? What does that abbreviation mean? What is that red thing blinking? You know I choose my moments. You know, because, know, because it's just like you know I I try to like watch and learn and sometimes I'll even be like oh, what, what lens are we on? You know like, oh, okay, so that's, that's how that looks, uh, according to to that lens, um, and then you kind of like get a picture.
Speaker 2:So I guess, like you know, if, if I'm doing that work of trying to learn, I guess maybe it's like kind of asking questions or being open to just kind of watching and learning, and I think, a lot of times too, um, and hopefully it carries over into their next projects, because there's sometimes, uh, when the demands of a project is so intense that at the end of the day, you know, sometimes I'll get comments of just like well, that was a lot. They asked you to do a lot. Yeah, yeah, thanks. Thanks for noticing.
Speaker 2:Somehow we pulled it off and so hopefully they kind of like look at those instances and kind of like put that in the back of their brain when they go on to the next projects of like oh I don't know, like we're going to have you know X amount of time to shoot this, because I've seen this happen, like this is going to take them you know this long to probably do that. And you know, and I have worked with dps where it's just like how long is this? How long do you think that's? It's probably going to take you like 10 minutes left in here yeah, you know we're good.
Speaker 2:yeah, 10 minutes is good, you know. So you kind of like, uh, come up with a shorthand with with some dps who do see you and do understand the time it takes Not all of them are like you know the me show and don't understand Like it's a nice spread.
Speaker 1:What was the hardest instance that, looking back on it, was the most difficult one to actually fix or get through.
Speaker 2:Movie-wise.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, just project in general, oh I mean specifically when it comes to um. There there's always a rush. At some point you don't either have the thing, you don't have enough time to go get the thing, or like there's something that you're being demanded of and you're in a pinch it's. It's that pinch of being able to creatively solve something on the fly.
Speaker 2:Oh goodness, to pluck one out of the ether.
Speaker 1:Oh or is it just all trauma?
Speaker 2:I'm just. I'm just one big trauma response. I don't know if this answers your question. I think the biggest moments might come from if something breaks and you have to kind of come up with a solution, especially like if it's like there was there was one shoot I think it was bag of lies, um, where we got very lucky, um, so it was.
Speaker 2:It was a wide shot in in one of the houses, like I think toward the end of the movie. It wasn't Matt and Claire's house, it was the other house and there were these like glass sconces on the wall. There were like three of them stacked and between setups. I think we had several setups in that scene and there was in between one setup somebody kind of like. You know, people lean on walls, um, so it's nobody's fault, um, but you know, he like leaned back into the wall and suddenly everybody hears this, this shatter sound, and you know we look around and it's like and one and that and that bottom most sconce had been, you know, bumped off the wall and it shattered and and uh, those were.
Speaker 2:it was one of those instances where we were kind of like working with the homeowner oh, this was the home property they broke yeah, something, one, at least one thing always gets broken and you're always just like, okay, is it gonna be an expensive thing or a not so expensive thing?
Speaker 1:how often is? It the pa. How often is it the pa?
Speaker 2:I want to know um, I don't think I've ever seen myself a pa break something um ever seen myself a PA break something, but other than you, I don't want to single out the department, but there is one department that I feel like is the culprit, but it's not the PA. It sounds like.
Speaker 1:Harry Potter. He who shall not be named.
Speaker 2:I don't want to take digs at anybody, because it always is just. You know it's accident.
Speaker 1:I've seen it happen too, and it's normally like somebody who's never been on a film set, though, which is usually the PA oh, okay, yeah, I am, yeah anyway.
Speaker 2:But like, yeah, it was, it was the homeowner's property, um, and uh, there was no replacement. These were very specific, you know triangle shape, you know sconces, like they were. They were very interesting looking. So just like, oh, those are interesting, let's just leave those on the wall. Because it's one of one of those instances where it's like, oh, don't put it in where it holes in the walls, you have to just use the existing hardware. And it's like I don't really have interesting three things to put here. Nothing that I liked anyway. But luckily, at the point at which it broke, the setups we had after that did not feature that wall, um, so that was an instance where we kind of we, we we got lucky, because otherwise there would have been a huge continuity error right, you got all the shots.
Speaker 1:What was it like a prominent thing that you had actually been paying attention to in the rest of the shots? And that's why you.
Speaker 2:I mean, you definitely saw it in the background. It wasn't like the focus of something, but it was. You know it was, it was, it was there, definitely there, and then it wasn't.
Speaker 1:There's probably been times, too, where it's been the complete opposite, where they've had to move on to an area that they had to come back to, you know, and then they had to rearrange how they were going to shoot it because of something like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, and then they had to rearrange how they were going to shoot it because of something like that. Yeah, um, but it happens sometimes, um, but I feel like, um, especially like on the indie scale. You don't have time to go redo something like that, except the blow, essentially yeah, it's just like okay, well, that's, that's gonna be a continuity error on imdb how do you know a project is worth your time?
Speaker 1:um because I'm sure it took a little bit of calibrating in the first, you know, beginning of the years when you started getting involved in the community.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think.
Speaker 2:Most people are great, though from my experience, I think it's usually it's a combination of do I like the script and, honestly, what's the pay? So it's always a combination of that, because it's like sure, we all want to be artists, but we don't want to be starving artists. So, even if there's a script that you might not be 100 in love with, but it pays well, you might need to do it. Um, and that's, that's just the game. You know you're not gonna love everything you work on um, but hopefully you learn and challenge yourself with each thing. Um, because it's like, you know, there have been some, some scripts that you know, I'm not I don't personally, you know like the script, but then it's like, oh well, you know doing, doing the script. But then it's like, oh well, you know doing doing this location or this location. I've never done that before, so that's going to be interesting. So you get excited in a different way, even if you might not like the story.
Speaker 1:And and even if you know, even if it might not pay, well, then it's just oh well, I've never done this before, so this will be a cool like oh, let's see if I can do that well I mean, there's a lot of there's always a first of whatever first location you've been on to try to address it different, um you know time of day that you have to address it because that plays in, obviously, um and there's.
Speaker 1:You have to know what the variables are eventually, in order to justify being able to spend your life doing this, because if you're doing what you love, you know you have to also, at a certain point, know how to protect the purest way or the way that you learn to have your cake and eat too as much as possible yeah what kind of directors uh directors do you think are the best to work with when it comes to doing their film?
Speaker 2:as a production designer, um, I don't know about the best, but, but I guess I would have a preference, because you know, to each their own, however they want to work. So I don't, I don't know if I would classify it as the best, but I do. I do prefer working with directors that kind of have an idea in mind of some sort of vision, like they come with ideas, they come with um, oh, I thought maybe this would be cool to do, and it's like okay, well, that's copyrighted, but let's figure out a way to to work a version of that art piece in um, you know. So it's like um, I like, because then that shows me that they've kind of like done, of done their homework and they're as excited about the look of it as I am. Rather than the directors that kind of come to me and like what are your ideas? I'm curious to know what you think.
Speaker 2:Because I haven't thought about this yeah, and it's just it can come off that way, like sometimes I feel like it's it turned out that they just want to know, like they just want to know my first impressions, which is usually kind of, which is usually kind of how it goes. Uh, like in, you know my introductory, like interviews and stuff for uh for a job as a director. You know they'll kind of ask you know my introductory, like interviews and stuff for uh for a job as a director. You know they'll kind of ask you know what I think first, um, and and I think that's a good way for them to kind of see if, uh, if I'm a good fit for them. And then I kind of ask you know, vice versa, it's like, okay, well, yeah, this is kind of what I was thinking, this is the impression I got, like did you have something in mind? So it's I, I really like it when there's a, when there's a back and forth, instead of just you know, just you know one, one person kind of dealing with, with that side of it and coming up with ideas.
Speaker 2:And I mean, you know, the other side of the fence fence there is, you know, sometimes you'll work with a director that's very, very much like knows exactly what they want, and sometimes it feels like, well, what am I even doing here? You know what you want. I'm just here facilitating, like I'm. I'm not your production designer, I'm just dressing for you. I'm just I'm. You're not listening to any ideas like. I've had that a couple of times.
Speaker 1:Um was it? What were the suggestions? Like, at least, like good, you're like, oh well, I mean, I like this. This is cool, it works. What am I doing here, as opposed to, like, you know, something that they wanted to do but you knew was objectively not the best way to go about it? So not only is there a creative difference, there's also a level of obstinance that you're seeing that you're gonna have to deal with. Is that what I'm hearing?
Speaker 2:Um, sometimes not all the time. Um, you know, if I, if I feel very strongly about something of like, know, if I, if I feel very strongly about something of like, I know you wanted to do blah, blah, blah, but what do you think about doing it this way or that way? And? Um, so it's always great when you can kind of like have that conversation. But you know, it does happen sometimes that, yeah, like some directors will just be like no, let's just do it this way, okay. And you know, if you're paying me, all right, let's go. Is it?
Speaker 1:easier to take a? Is it easier to take a BS when you're getting paid for it?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, a hundred percent. I think that's, I think that's true of all jobs. Um, I'm sure that, uh, you know, the people working in nine to five, um, you know, sometimes just have to take it.
Speaker 1:So for you personally, what?
Speaker 2:what is the?
Speaker 1:most rewarding aspect of your job in filmmaking, in the roles of filmmaking specifically.
Speaker 2:Filmmaking specifically, I think, when it comes to production, design itself, I think the most rewarding aspect is when either you're on set or you're viewing the film. You know, and you know someone has a comment of like oh, that looks really good. You know, if somebody is like complimentary of your work, like that's that's very rewarding, especially if you had a tough shoot, because because sometimes it's just like okay, you know whatever. But you know we're all artists and we're all like our own worst critic and it's like is this good? Am I good at my job? So I think it's always rewarding to kind of like to be seen. You know where I think we're all a little vain when it comes to our art. You know we want it to be good and you know we're.
Speaker 2:I think we're all a little vain when it comes to our art, you know we want, we want it to be good and you know we're very critical of it and they're like a lot of artists, have main character syndrome too.
Speaker 2:So yeah, some of them, um, but like filmmaking in general, I think I think it also comes down to kind of like the audience thing.
Speaker 2:Like whenever I might direct something, it's so it always comes down to like, well, I like it and that's rewarding, like I did a thing, like I made this thing, um.
Speaker 2:But it's always, you know, the icing on the cake when somebody else actually like connects with it and you get to have, you know, if you, if you go to a film festival with it, you get to have that conversation with somebody who just really loved it, you know. So I guess, like, in the end, the reward is being able to kind of, yeah, come back to the conversation of just like, you know, seeing somebody's excitement, or you know, just, yeah, just just making the art. And sometimes I have a lot of fun in prep, like prep is my favorite phase of production, um, so I I get really invested in the planning process and like to go from the plan to then see the set finished on the day we're shooting. It's just like, oh, we made it, oh, we made that happen, like that's that's very rewarding as well, to finally see it. You know kind of come to life with the actors and you know, seeing and interact with the set and the props and whatnot, just like.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, we made it so, like the, it's the pleasure of being a part of the quilt instead of being you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, being part of the quilt, I like that yeah.
Speaker 1:You should go home and write that on a like crochet, that on a pillow.
Speaker 2:I'm not very good at crocheting.
Speaker 1:Well, it's been great getting to know you. It was nice to meet you finally, because I think I've seen you around at a few places. Well, I remember you from. Winter Film because you were up on stage, did you assist with putting on Winter Film, or is it something that you're frequently asked to help out with?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've been helping kent uh organize winter films since 2018 oh okay, uh, so, yep, I've, I've been, I've been up there and and helping kent put that show on.
Speaker 1:For let me do quick math seven years, eight years, seven years now well, I mean, it was this last year was my first time attending because I had some. I had some friends who had some material in there, and so I went and saw them, um, and then, and then you circle back somehow, because do you have any final thoughts?
Speaker 2:you want to get into production design? Just have fun. At the end of the day, if you're not enjoying this industry especially with how few and far between the jobs have gotten then, and your and your heart's not in it, then then you're not gonna make it. Um, so just yeah, just really be invested and say yes as much as possible. Um, you know, because I I've worked some free gigs and I've gotten some some great friends that I still know 10 years later and now we're working paid jobs. So it's like, and you never know what opportunity is going to be the right opportunity.
Speaker 1:So just trust your gut well, stefanica, thanks for coming on, I appreciate it yeah, this is great.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me. Thank you.