Focal Point
Conversations with artists across all industries, taking a deep dive into the nuances, techniques, and philosophies of society's talent.
Focal Point
Small Communities Matter! #49 w/ Filmmaker Jake Ryan Baker
"Nobody makes your movies, you have to make them."
His upcoming psychological thriller "The Part" follows a struggling actress who wakes up after a car crash to find strangers claiming to be her family. The film explores identity and reality through an unsettling premise Baker describes as "what's it like to need someone to love you so badly, and then what happens when someone answers that call in the most fucked up way possible?"
What makes the headaches and heartbreaks of filmmaking worthwhile? For Baker, it's the permanence: "Film is forever...you can go back and look at my short films and they're just snapshots in time of a story."
like six months ago, and at first I, you know, I did a couple weeks like, gave myself a little bit of a cushion, and then I got a lot of demand, at least in my local area of Cincinnati you're in Fort Wayne, right yeah, I got and people started coming on and I got like so backlogged I started releasing by like two, two episodes a week and that that was a. That was a tough schedule. That was a tough schedule, especially if you know you got your your uh side projects you want to do and then you've got work and then you have just life responsibilities and it's a very, very um, you know it's a tenuous thing to try to do. That's.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, um, I thankfully I've made it so that I prefer to have guests on my episode but on my episodes. But I do occasionally just do a solo episode where I just watch a movie and just talk for an hour and I'm like okay, this is an episode, Cool, See you later. Bye.
Speaker 1:I haven't done that yet. I haven't done a solo episode I'm. There's a number of things I could talk about, but no, you know, the back and forth is is something that really really helps. Otherwise.
Speaker 2:I feel like I'm just making a long YouTube video. I way prefer having guests on, but just in an effort to make sure that I can, for a while I moved to bi-weekly. But I moved back to weekly quite a while ago because I was like, ah, every once in a while I'll just be like what are my top five favorite Tarantino films? That's these, these. Okay, see you later.
Speaker 1:Bye yeah, well, go ahead and introduce yourself um and uh. Tell me how you got started with the filmmaking sure uh um sorry once I just need to answer this. So this is my guest, jake. One second All yours.
Speaker 2:So, yes, most people know me as Jake Baker. I professionally go by Jake Ryan Baker, not because I'm pretentious, it's just because Jake Baker is a very plain name and if I need people to find me it's easier to just go by Jake Ryan Baker than Jake Baker. But I've been. My journey into filmmaking has been weird. I talk to other filmmakers all the time and they tell me oh you know, I got a camcorder when I was 11 and I was in my backyard making dinosaur movies with my figurines and stuff. And I'm always so jealous of that origin story because I wrote a little bit when I was in high school, but it was always like prose and like fantasy stories where I was just like me and my friends were like fighting with swords and magic and stuff. My friends were like fighting with swords and magic and stuff.
Speaker 2:But when I got into college, about a year or two in, I saw a screenwriting class and I was like wait a second. I like movies. People have to write them, and I had genuinely when I was in college. Uh, it wasn't until college that I even understood that people wrote movies and so it's an embarrassingly late discovery. And so I took the screenwriting class and I was like, whoa, this is my new thing, I'm a writer and I love movies. I want to write movies, and so I started writing screenplays.
Speaker 2:And then, through that class, I of course met people who had already discovered that nobody makes your movies, you have to make them. People who had already discovered that nobody makes your movies, uh, you have to make them. And so I started getting on sets and just being like, oh, it's really fun to hang out with people. And then I got bit by the bug pretty hard and I started wanting to make film and direct. I didn't want to just be a writer, I wanted to be a director as well. And it was kind of weird, because I think a lot of people get started by making short films and sort of building up and building up and building up. And I worked on some short films as like a crew member and helped out with them, and then I just kind of jumped two feet in and co-directed a feature as like essentially my first directing project.
Speaker 1:Interesting. That is definitely not the normal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and we sort of broke it up. In a way it was an anthology movie and so we made it was almost like making several short films, but three of those films were like 40 minutes long. So they were lengthy processes and I think it was sort of like the folly of youth being like a 20 something, where we're just like, yeah, we'll just make a whole movie, who cares? And it turns out, you know, reflecting on the process, we tricked a lot of people into believing in us and had a lot of really like professional people, both like really great actors in Fort Wayne and people that knew what they were doing. Crew wise, you know, big shout out to the DP on my first film, Dan Catter, who just was a seasoned professional who I think kind of hard carried us through that production.
Speaker 2:And then, you know, making that was like a years long process. But again, just the folly of youth where it was just like, yeah, this is it, this is the thing. And then you know you finish a film and it's like two and a half hours long and you're like, yeah, this is fine. And then you start submitting it to festivals and you're like, oh wait, nobody wants to see this. It's like screenplays.
Speaker 1:Actually is like you know, because if you want, if you're a writer, you have to.
Speaker 1:If you're a writer, you have to if you're a writer. Writer, you know, and that's kind of the thing that you at least start off with or doing. Similar to, like myself, which I can kind of relate to you on this, is that we, because we love writing, our scripts end up being too long, especially if you're going to submit it to competitions and then festivals. I think last year I finished a 170-page screenplay that I was working my butt off to try to make sure that I could actually keep the story moving along and then I started realizing, oh, nobody's going to take this and yeah, with creativity, you either have to.
Speaker 1:You really it's awful because you have to decide all the things that you love, what is actually the most important, and when you're showing it to people or submitting to festivals or stuff like that, you feel like you're just sort of killing your baby or slicing it to death and just amputating the parts that you love off of it in order to just make it acceptable. Did you find any uh circumstances where you found that you know you had to really make compromises that you had a hard time with when it come to approaching a project?
Speaker 2:well, I think with the uh like with feature, it was very much like we were in our Tarantino era and we thought we could do all the cool big moving pieces and action. And then very quickly you find out just the practical reality of things is, you know, you can't have this. It's not easy to just fill a bar full of people and have all these moving parts. You have to be really creative with how you shoot things and try to keep things contained. And I think that even back then it was like, oh, we'll have a little fight scene here. And then, once you start actually breaking down the realities of what a fight scene looks like, you're just like, oh, this is really hard. You're just like, oh, this is really hard. And so I think you know, with each thing that we made, we started getting a little more realistic, like with what's possible, especially with no budget, because we truly made that feature for no money. I think the most money we shelled out the entire time was like there was one part where we filmed it in this apartment building and we rented the place for like $500. And that was by far and away the most money we spent on the movie. And you know, as I've gotten more into filmmaking, the more it's just like filmmaking's a really tough creative field to be in, because it is a very expensive creative field to be in if you want to like do things a certain way and you know there's a lot of like to like do things a certain way and you know there's a lot of like hard work and elbow grease that you can use to sort of circumnavigate certain costs. And you know I'm a filmmaker here in Fort Wayne in the Midwest. I do think that a lot of times if you just ask questions and ask favors, sometimes you can. You can surprise yourself with what you're able to get your hands on. But a lot of it just comes down to just being realistic about what's possible.
Speaker 2:And honestly, the more I've made stuff, the more I've looked at my scripts and been like that's going to be a huge pain in the butt. Uh, maybe I just change that to something else so that, like when I'm actually trying to do this, I'm not like pulling my hair out because I'm like, oh, I just really wanted this specific thing. And now I think a good example is there's a scene in a feature I'm about to make or not a scene. But there was sort of an underlying thing in the feature that I'm about to make where one of the characters has like a bruise for a little bit, and I started like really breaking down. I was like, does this character really need a bruise? Because all of a sudden I'm going to have to start tracking this bruise and we're going to have to put the bruise on like every day, and would the bruise even still be there? I'm like talking myself out of like having this bruise because it's just creating so much work. Is it necessary?
Speaker 1:What were the things that you took away from doing co-directing that first feature that you you did when it came to, once it was finished, starting to approach your own projects to make sure that one you can also get your creative vision out on the board, but also, you know, choosing your battles wisely.
Speaker 2:I think one of the big things is just, you know, trying to communicate your vision to the rest of your cast and crew, and then also like, learning to be collaborative, because their interpretation might be different and, honestly, sometimes it might be better.
Speaker 2:And it's really important that you not get so stuck in your ways as to be like no, I had this very specific way that you needed to say this word and we're not moving on until we get it. It's it's being allowing yourself to be like just, I think, flexibility and then just being able to take things that come and and and, you know, embrace what it's like to work in a collaborative medium like film, because there's really just nothing like it in terms of, you know, trying to work together with a group to create a certain vision. And, you know, I do think that having like a strong voice is important too. It's this weird push and pull of trying to come in and be like it's this way, and I see it this way and be like it's this way and I see it this way, and like steering the ship, but somehow still being able to just like turn on a dime and be like and this works too. It's a real tightrope act.
Speaker 1:How did you go about sourcing your crew, like what's the film community in Fort Wayne? You know, kind of like cause? I'm from the Cincinnati Dayton, columbus area here in Ohio.
Speaker 2:Um, it's interesting. Uh, one of the things that I always say about Fort Wayne is we have this really robust theater community. Uh, almost more than a lot of other, I think, cities our size, there's just so much theater going on, and that was one of the first steps that really got me going in filmmaking is having this kind of incredible pool of actors that were local, that were, you know, interested in doing film and and they were already like seasoned and professional and just done so many shows and were great to work with. I think, like when we made that first feature, one of the cornerstones was we worked with these actors, brad and Leslie Beauchamp, and anyone in Fort Wayne knows who they are. Leslie now runs the Arena Dinner Theater and Brad is this amazing dude that's like directed plays and been in plays for decades. At this point, and working with people that were so professional and knew what they were doing was a really big step up and it lended a credibility to us. When we were like nobodies, people were like, oh, brad and Leslie are working on this. Okay, sure, these, sure these guys must be doing something, and I think for I'm assuming this is like this with any community it's a matter of like establishing those first connections and then sort of building out from there. I think getting to know Brad and Leslie and having such a great working relationship with them opened up a lot of doors for us to work with other people. So I I'm really lucky to have made a lot of connections to the local fort wayne theater community because there's so many great actors that we get to work with and then as and then in filmmaking, you know, things have moved into a more digital, mobile age.
Speaker 2:Obviously it's not, uh, it's not like the 70s where you have to have a whole team that knows how to run a film camera, like anyone can make movies with their phone these days. But we do have, like some you know, working professionals in fort wayne that do filmmaking full-time. A lot of them, a lot of people I work with, uh, they spend a lot of their weeks doing commercial stuff. You know, making commercials for, for example, a helicopter company uh, some of my friends worked on a commercial for that recently and and then they, you know, try to make narrative, uh, fiction in their spare time. Or they do documentaries and and you know people that know their way around a film set or people that know their way around a film set, regardless of, like, what the subject matter is, um, but there's, I think, almost anywhere where there's even like a remotely big city there's people that are trying to make movies and you can find them eventually.
Speaker 2:And fort wayne, I think, has sort of a growing film community and I think that if you are around enough, there are people that know what they're doing. I've been really lucky to connect with people like my producer, victoria Britton, who's worked on tons and tons of professional projects, and she goes down to Indy and works all over and I'm like, hey, victoria, do you know someone that could be a good first AC? And she's like here's a list of people that I trust, and that is. The other thing is like maybe not everybody's necessarily Fort Wayne local, maybe someone's coming in from Indy or, on my upcoming feature, one of my guys is coming in from Pittsburgh just because he worked on another movie with my DP and they got along really well and he was like I'd love to work with that guy again.
Speaker 2:And so he's like sure, I'll drive him from Pittsburgh and I'm like cool, I will feed you and put you up.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm somewhat familiar with the uh, the, the Pittsburgh crowd a little bit. Um, a number of years ago, uh, some people from that community came and filmed a uh found footage feature in, I believe I think it's London, it's not Landon Ohio, it's London, ohio and I met some of the crew from up there and, by happenstance, when somebody from that community reached out to maybe potentially come on the podcast, and I took a look at his work and whatnot, and it turns out he knew some of the people from all those years ago that were on that film that I happen to be paying on, and we crossed paths in that um at some point because he was an extra in in that film. And what thing I found really surprising is the how interconnected some of these local communities are with people that are fairly far away. Actually, because we're trying to all lend a helping hand to be able to get our projects off the ground so we can all help grow.
Speaker 1:Because we're in the Midwest here we're not connected to a lot of industry areas. Now it's getting a little bit better because, you know, you got Atlanta, which, honestly, is kind of more of a hub than Hollywood at the moment, um, and you know, nashville is, you know, growing, and so we have this chain that's kind of going up through the Midwest because we have these great tax credits that, um, you know that have come on within a few recent years. Uh, and I think there's actually a lot of hope for the industry coming to our area and I don't think we'll have to wait long, to too terribly long, for you know, that type of work to actually start amalgamating in our area. We don't, um, there's a little, there's a little light at the end of the tunnel. We don't, there's a little light at the end of the tunnel.
Speaker 2:We don't yeah, yeah, and it's interesting too. I think, that the deeper you get in, the more things that you never maybe thought about. Oh, a tax credit matters a lot and you know, in Indiana that's been like a subject of conversation in film circles for a while is like, when are we going to get the tax break? So people stop going to Ohio to make movies set in Indiana and I'm over here being like I don't understand the finances of it, but apparently it matters. So give us our dang tax credit. And it's been. I don't know Indiana. I love my community in Fort Wayne and I I don't know if I necessarily uh believe in like pride, uh, from having just happened to have been born somewhere, but you know, I do like, uh, I love, I love the people that I've been able to meet living in this community. But there are times when Indiana, specifically as a state, can be very frustrating. Uh, you know, we uh really behind the curve when it.
Speaker 2:What's that?
Speaker 1:Like creatively or in other ways? Or is it culture, Like what? What kind of specifically are you?
Speaker 2:Uh, I think, just in terms of like, as a state we don't have a lot of priorities towards, like, the creative arts or even just, you know, recreationally. I find it insane. What's that?
Speaker 1:It's a very blue collar state.
Speaker 2:What's that? It's a very blue-collar state, yeah, and I also think that you know, recreationally, even just something as silly as like Indiana is like the one holdout in terms of like legalizing weed, like what are we even doing? Like I thought for sure that at least the money aspect of it would be enough to get it over the hill. In terms of like you can make a lot of money taxing these weed places, and even that's still like to find out that your state is still just so stuck up and stuck in the old ways that they're just like no weed is evil. And it's like, by the way, buy all the booze you want, it's totally fine. It's just like. What are we doing? It's like I are. What are we doing? It's like I just feel like we're there.
Speaker 2:There are some things about indiana that feel very ancient in a bad way and you know, uh.
Speaker 2:But on the other hand, you know, I get to live in a community where going up to someone and being like I'm a filmmaker is enough to have some people be like whoa, that's so cool and I'm, you know, putting together this feature that I'm putting together. It's been a real boon to be in a community where telling someone I'm making a real movie is enough to get them excited. Movie is enough to get them excited because, you know, I have a lot of friends out in la that are like everyone that lives in la is so jaded if they see you making a movie, they come out with their lawnmowers and start mowing until you pay them to go away, whereas you know, here in fort wayne someone's like well, you're making a movie, have the full use of my restaurant for free, and you're like oh, yeah, getting locations in the midwest is actually, you know, people are really friendly because it's like, oh, I've never seen the process of like what it looks like for a movie to be made, you know.
Speaker 1:And then you're normally the, the owners of the locations, they'll they'll kind of hang around and be like, oh my gosh, it's so cool and you get to see like the first impression of like people who that they could, because making movies is is magic. Movies aren't just magic when you watch them. Making movies is also magic. And when you get to see somebody witness that magic for the first time, it's, it kind of reinvigorates your soul in, in a way, artistically and it's like, oh yeah what I'm doing is kind of fun, special, and it's like, oh yeah, what I'm doing is kind of fun and special and it's not all stress and headaches.
Speaker 2:It's pretty easy to become jaded because I love there's nothing like making film. I always say if I could get up every day and just be on a film set, I probably would. But it is easy to get exhausted by it. Time is so. Time is never more relative than when you're on a film set and you're just like, yeah, we got 12 hours to do this thing. And you're just you turn around and you're like it's been eight hours. Uh, we're not even close to finish what is going on, uh, and it's, it's, it's pretty terrifying and it is funny.
Speaker 2:I've definitely been on sets before where a producer is really excited to come see you make a movie, but sometimes you're not shooting the exciting stuff.
Speaker 2:Sometimes you're shooting these two characters are sitting on a couch and having this serious conversation scene. And I've definitely been on a couple of sets where the producers come by and you give them the monitor and they're watching and then, like 30 minutes later, they're kind of like, oh, uh, we're doing take seven of the same three lines of dialogue that that we've been doing and they kind of just go oh, and I've definitely been on set with a lot of extras who when they first get there, they're so excited to see the cameras and everybody running around and then, like an hour in, they're like I'm just sitting here, uh yeah, it's a hurry up and wait game yeah, um, some people stay enthusiastic about it and, uh, I I love the, the grind of it, I love getting the the lines right, I love finding the right chemistry in the reads and and getting the timing right and and working with actors is my favorite aspect of filmmaking and so I I thrive in like doing those second, third, fourth takes and and finding what's what we can pull from it.
Speaker 2:But I do know from like the outside, when you're especially when you have like a job to do, it can be really easy to start to like uh fade a little bit.
Speaker 1:But I agree, like seeing people like get enthusiastic about it is amazing and it does remind you of like oh, we're doing something special actually yeah, um, the individual, the gentleman I had on my uh podcast, uh malachi, who I believe also victoria is producing, if I recall correctly, his next feature. He's trying to get off the ground. How do you know him? Or like, what's the relationship there?
Speaker 2:sorry, can you repeat the question?
Speaker 1:how do you know Malachi? He was the individual I had on the podcast a few weeks ago to who recommended you as a guest and you, you know somebody uh, because I'm getting more familiar with uh different people outside of the the Cincinnati and Columbus area in different pockets of you know the country, who you know get a lot of, a lot of attention it uh, it, it definitely was.
Speaker 2:Uh, you know Fort Wayne, it is a pretty close-knit community, uh, in terms of filmmaking. So it you know, generally if you work with somebody, they'll have worked with somebody that you know. And so a while back, malachi was making a film dead in dreams, and several people that I knew yeah, great, uh, it's, it's uh man, the all the actors he pulled in for that are just so amazing and it's just a gorgeous looking film. Uh, and I was lucky enough to and I'm always, I always try to be aggressive about getting on sets and networking and meeting new people, and so victoria and dan, who are people that I've worked with several times before, were working on his movie and I was like, hey, yo, uh, can I get on that set? And I just, you know, uh, I think I was just there.
Speaker 2:I ran sound a couple times I was doing bts. It was just basically like any day they were shooting where I wasn't working. I just dropped by and connected with everybody and tried to help out as much as I could. I ran to Lowe's and found a ceiling light replacement. When we busted the one that we took out to replace the lights for us, it's just like uh, that's, that's one of the things is like I've made a lot of friends and a lot of connections, just sort of elbowing my way on the sets, uh, in any way that I can. I've agreed to be an extra in films and I'm still facebook friends with people that I've only ever worked with as an extra.
Speaker 2:I have done pa stuff, I've run sound I I do the gopher thing like, oh, you need someone to go pick up the, the catering order for lunch. All right, I will go do that. Uh, and, and you know you, just you just meet people as much as you can because, uh, connecting with people and networking is like the most important thing maybe of everything. Uh, you know, going back to what I was talking about is like getting brad and leslie in our movie open all these doors to meet all these other people. And now I just have known these people for over a decade and it's all about just talking to people and making connections. I always say proving you're not a psycho, which unfortunately sometimes is like the bar. A psycho, uh, which unfortunately sometimes is like the bar. Uh, you hear stories from other people where it's like you just hear about these like nightmare people that other people have worked with on sets and creatives with egos who think they're like you know.
Speaker 1:The gift from god, yes, and like my script, is going to change the world.
Speaker 2:You don't understand this and it can be like that because, you know, uh, there's, there's a tough aspect of being in a creative field. You do get egos and you do get, you know, being a director can feel very much like playing God occasionally, and I've certainly run into my fair share of egomaniacs or just people that are just you know, acts are just, uh, people that are just you know. I hear stories of, like, bigger sets where pas have gotten fired for just being kind of irritating, uh, to be around, you know, and it's just like it's part of you know, I think working in such a collaborative environment is being someone that somebody that people want to work with. You know, and uh, and thankfully I've gotten to the point where a lot of the connections I've made are, you know, victoria or malachi say this person's cool. I can know for a fact that they're great to work with and, and part of it is like being someone that they would turn around and say, oh j Jake, yeah, he's cool, you should have him on.
Speaker 2:You know, I've been filmmaking now since I was in college, in like 2010. So, you know, we're going on 15 years or so of making movies and cultivating relationships and reputation. Cultivating relationships and reputation. I, I, I, I. It goes both ways where I I hear a lot of names and people say that guy's great to work with, uh, she's great to work with, and then I hear like, uh, he really sucks. Uh, be careful about that one, and then that's everything, I think.
Speaker 1:Well, in a small when uh, when the community is small enough, you know the people who are not helpful or even pleasurable to work with. They get weeded out pretty quickly, and so the thing that I've come to learn is that if you don't have a good reputation, the crowd is small enough to where you're not.
Speaker 1:You're not going to I don't want to say ostracacized, but people aren't going to want to work with you again. And I've seen this where you know people who are just getting into filmmaking and it's like oh, I'll go pa on like this set, and they pa for like the first two hours of the day and then suddenly they want to start stepping in and trying to help with the roles that have nothing to do with them. You know, or giving a suggestion, not a take, or something like that, and it's suddenly it's just like. You know, you've been, I've seen directors like bring out the discord banhammer, just like, all right, no, you're not, you can't do that, um, and oh gosh, there was this one time, um, where we were actually actually actually, this one's a little more close to home.
Speaker 1:I brought, uh, I was uh, I briefly saw this girl for like I don't know, two or three weeks or something like that, and I introduced her to the, to my world. It's like oh, okay, I'll bring you on and set, I'll bring you on set. You know, it's like, and I cleared it with the director and everything and I'm like okay, listen, this is you know, we are here to work.
Speaker 1:I'm'm just saying you know this is, you know we'll go on, you know dates and stuff like that. But you know, if you want to see my world, we're here to work. And she did work. But at some point there was a. The director was trying to figure out like, okay, he was working with the actors. Sometimes you don't always know you know the take, you have to kind of find the performance on the spot, um, depending on, like, what's going on. And then, sure enough, eventually there were, there was enough hesitation where it's like all right, we could do this or that, and she just didn't know enough about the process. And then she started giving her opinions and I'm like, oh fuck, this ain't gonna work out, this is not gonna work out. Um, uh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Bittersweet memories yeah, it's tough, uh, and and it's tough too because I've been dealing a lot with people, uh, coming out of nowhere that I've never spoken with before, that are asking me oh, do you have any room on set for this? Like, I really want to get some reps, and I'm in this, I'm in this tough spot where I'm like this is how I got started. I got started, you know, getting on the sets and getting experience and making connections, and I always want to. I would love to be someone that provides that opportunity for other people, but then it's all sympathized with it.
Speaker 2:You get it yeah, but it's also like I don't know you and this is a really important project, uh, and I don't know if I need like some guy I've never met before just hanging out while I'm doing these like really intense scenes. So it's like it's. It's been an interesting dance, like trying to figure out how to give people opportunities, while also like making sure that I'm preserving my casting crew that I've cultivated for years and years and years at this point, uh, and I'll allow everybody to like do their jobs and, generally speaking, I find that like 85 percent of people are chill, like the worst you'll get is they're a little bit introverted and quiet usually. I think that's the thing about just life in general, 99% of people are pretty cool.
Speaker 2:You think about all the people that you pass in a day and who don't bother you, but you only remember the one person who wigs out on like, like slam their shoulder in you and started yelling at you and you're like man, people are crazy and you're like you don't think about like the 99 other people you pass in the grocery store that were in their own worlds, like being totally chill and and I think that's what what's. It's hard to. It's easy to get hung up on stuff like that, and so it's. It's been really interesting. It's also just been kind of a weird wake-up moment where I'm like, oh, you're approaching me for an opportunity. I've spent my entire life like just like trying to network and get on sets and being like I will hold a light, I will move sandbags, what do you need from me?
Speaker 1:uh and and it's like it's weird how uh, how small the world can can be sometimes well, if you're, if a pa is ever um requested to go get coffee, you know, or something like that, just know that is the most important job. If somebody's asking you to get coffee, it's because they need coffee. It's not like, yeah, you are my bitch, you know, go feed me. Go bring me my, my, uh, my nutrition for the day. It's like, no, no, it's because you know filmmakers, if they're, if if coffee's going around on set, it's because they need it and they're looking at you like the savior or of the situation of the day, like you have been endowed with a very important responsibility, believe it or not and I and I will say, uh, I remember the, the pas who, who hustle and are great to work with.
Speaker 2:Oh, I, I was lucky enough like we shot a teaser trailer recently for this upcoming feature and my dp brought uh someone on, uh, caleb, and I'd never met him before. But my dp, dan, was like he's cool, uh, and that guy worked his butt off and I was like what is your number? I'm calling you for the next thing, and so it really, people recognize hard work and if you're reliable and you're not annoying to hang out with, you're going to get called back.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so let's pivot for a bit, because I do want to get into your feature that you're working on the part. Go ahead and explain the synopsis or the premise of it for the audience. And then I really want to get into the actual craft of you as a director. And did you write this script as well?
Speaker 1:Yep, okay, so it's a writer-director combo like this because people who, if you write, it's normally directors who write their own material. They're just directors because they want to see the vision that they spend all this time writing through to the end. You know, the director is a secondary aspect to writing.
Speaker 2:If you're a writer, director combo would you say that's accurate I would say to a certain extent, yes, certainly, when I first started I was writing stuff and I remember I was like I'm gonna just be a writer, I'm a writer, and it became very quickly apparent that nobody makes your stuff uh, like you have to make it. And so I originally definitely got into directing as like a way to realize the vision on the page. But as I've gotten more into it, I've been like, no, I am a writer and I'm a director and I do think that, uh, you know, it's really important to I always tell people. When I first started writing, I used to picture everything like it was a play. I would just see the characters in a wide room and they would be interacting with each other, and that was the vision that was in my head. And thankfully, as I've gotten more time on sets, as I've directed more projects, my directing and my editing has fed back into my writing and now I write more cinematically because I'm picturing like what is that shot?
Speaker 2:Uh, you know, I would say a good example is in this upcoming feature. Uh, part of the climax of the feature is coming down to a very specific shot angle, to to sell an emotion. And I don't think 10 years ago I would have thought to do something like that. So I I I do believe in you know, some people do they. They they're writers first and they do direct out of necessity. But I do think it's important to embrace being a director because it is a, it's a visual language and and there's so much that you can do. It just depends on what type of story you're trying to tell too. Some people they prefer a more talky mumblecore type thing and you can really just get away with having the actor's performance like hard carry stuff. But I've been getting really into just the visual language of it too and I think it's helping my writing a lot too. But I have a tendency to ramble, uh it's a podcast.
Speaker 2:If there's not at least one tangent, it's not really a podcast, you know uh the part is a film that I, you know, I I wrote the script for it forever and ever ago and it's gone through a lot of iterations. It was originally called descent, uh and uh. I was like, yes, it's a great double meaning because it's gone through a lot of iterations. It was originally called descent, uh and uh. I was like, yes, it's a great double meaning because it's a descent into madness. But then it's also about family and bloodlines and like the passing on of, like mental health and things like that. And then everyone that uh used to get the script when it was called descent was like like the descent. And I was like, oh yeah, there really is just a very popular film called the descent and I should probably stop calling this film descent. And so then one day I googled the part uh film and there's no movie that's just called the part.
Speaker 2:I will say, having done a little bit more like algorithm stuff, like promoting this film, I've come to realize why maybe some films aren't called the part, because there's 500 million movies that are blah, blah, blah, part one, part two. And so I don't know, I don't know if it's the most search engine friendly title of all time, but it's very relevant to the movie because the main character uh, the film is entirely from the main character's pov uh, are we follow this struggling actress named Jamie Lewis and we spend some time with her in her life. We see that she's dealing with a lot of anxiety and she's very codependent on her girlfriend and she doesn't really put herself out there and she just really just waits tables and kind of passes the time. And her girlfriend is an aspiring, is a working director and she books a really big gig. But it takes her out of the country and so when she leaves, the main character jamie has a really tough time dealing with that and starts to kind of spiral a little bit.
Speaker 1:But she's a horror film right huh it's a horror film, right it's interesting, right, I've been.
Speaker 2:It's, uh, you know, speaking of like, I just, literally, as of eight hours ago, closed the crowdfunding campaign for the film and marketing it has been this weird tango of being like it's a horror film, it's a psychological thriller, it's both. It's. It's a. It's actually it's more of a psychological thriller drama. Oh, it's a horror. There's, you know, I a lot of the films that I liken it to. They're very like the slow burn horror movies like midsommar and hereditary and black swan. But you know, those movies have long stretches where it's really more about, like, just the eeriness and stuff. So, uh, you know, sometimes I call it a horror just because horror is so popular in the indie filmmaking world. I would say it's more of a psychological thriller, but it's one of those things where it's it's a little tough to define. I suppose there's certain elements of black comedy in it because there's like a meta narrative where the main character is like talking to the audience, she's very sardonic and bleak and stuff like that, but uh, she books an audition and it's a little eerie but it seems to go well. But on the way home she gets into a car crash and when she wakes up she's in a house she's never seen before. And there's these people she's never met. And when she's like, who are you people? They're like we're your family. And she's like, what do you mean? You're my family, I've never seen you before in my life. And they're like, oh my god, you, you were in a coma and you forgot us. So we're going to figure this out.
Speaker 2:And so the bulk of the movie is sort of navigating this weird situation that she's in, where she's trying to figure out what's real and what isn't and get to know these strange new people who seem like they're harboring a lot of dark sickness and just general darkness. And it's really about just like trying to figure out what's going on with her, because, again, the movie's pretty much entirely from her point of view what's reality and what's not? Yes, very much so. And then it's also, like you know I at least, when I write stuff a lot of it comes down to like what are, like, the thematic elements that we're playing with, and so you know, she sees a lot of herself in some of these family members, almost like to an eerie degree, and there's a lot of.
Speaker 2:The characters are carrying around a lot of hurt too, and I do think that one of the main through lines of the film the reason I always talk about her being so codependent on her girlfriend at the beginning and stuff like that is she sort of has this hole inside of her that she can't seem to fill just this need to be wanted and loved. And I always say, like this film is a little bit of like the monkey's paw scenario or what's it like to need someone to love you so badly and then what? What happens when someone answers that call? But it's in the most fucked up way possible, like this is not what I bargained for, but yeah you know, and I think that's that's like writing 101.
Speaker 2:It's like what does your character want? How do you give it to them? In the worst way possible, or like what happens? What? What's the worst thing that can happen to your character. It turns out to be a good thing.
Speaker 2:There's like different, like writing exercises, I think, that people talk about and you know I'm really lucky to have assembled a really great cast and crew for it, and my lead is, uh played by morgan spencer, who's a local fort wayne actor, who's just again speaking of connections. Way back when I was in college, she was on the very first short film I ever worked on and I was like she's amazing and we've just continued to work together and have a friendship ever since and she's. It's one of those things where you're in the Midwest it means sometimes you can work with people who are just true magical geniuses that maybe nobody else really knows about, are just true magical geniuses that maybe nobody else really knows about. Uh, I do think like one of the things that excites me the most is because this film is so laser focused on the central character.
Speaker 2:I know when this film comes out, people are just going to really gravitate to her performance and just be like holy shit, uh, also, paul, I didn't ask you if I could cuss uh before we started the show. Uh, I've been so good so far, um, but there's no, there's no other way to say it. Oh, um, but yeah, that's sort of like. I guess the synopsis is like her navigating this and you know, and being a uh, filmmaker, I try to write these contained stories, and so there's a large chunk of it that takes place in the house as she's navigating this new situation, and it's contained to the family for the most part, and so it's a lot of just finding four stellar actors and just being like and go when you were writing it?
Speaker 1:um, how much in your mind did you try to keep the plot in the locations, as well as the scale and the amount of cast you had to do, um, in order to keep it budget friendly, to make it actually make it uh, with this one it was everything.
Speaker 2:Like I said, there's like so much of the film takes place in the same house that she wakes up in, and then every sort of like fantastical element, there's like dream sequences in the film, but they all take place in locations that I have access to because I work at the public library. I was like she's constantly on a theater stage because I have access to a theater stage.
Speaker 1:Because of the big theater community in Fort Wayne.
Speaker 2:At the library where I work. We have this giant awesome theater and I can just film there when I want, as long as nothing's going on down there.
Speaker 1:So is it more like an art center, then library and theater?
Speaker 2:A little bit, and I think a lot of libraries are sort of here in Fort Wayne. I work at the main branch Allen County public library and it is a literally the address of our library is its own block. It has its own address. It's so large and we have this huge theater. We have this huge place that we just opened called the studio, with a, with a full podcasting sound booth and 3d printers and and 10 Mac laptops that you can work on. They have to have the full adobe suite on them. Our, our genealogy uh wing that we have is the second most robust genealogy wing in the entire country, second only to salt lake city damn you, salt lake city.
Speaker 1:uh, well, those mormons gotta keep track of everything, dude. I mean, there's so many people.
Speaker 2:We have like a whole Abraham Lincoln Museum, because for some reason we're really obsessed with Abraham Lincoln here.
Speaker 1:I think he was from Indiana, though, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's something like that. I should probably know, considering I work in a building with an Abraham Lincoln Museum, but, sorry, I've never watched Lincoln. Wait, no, he was from fort wayne. That's why, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, sorry, I'm a little bit of a history buff, so that's my tangent uh, but yeah, uh, and you know I, uh, you know people watch the trailer. There's a couple shots of her waitressing and it's truly just like one of the local restaurants was like oh like oh yeah, whenever we're closed, have at it.
Speaker 2:It's like there's a couple scenes where we'll need some extras, but I was very mindful of writing it as contained as possible. I was like I just need these characters and it's a lot of like. Technically, the opening of the script takes place in LA, but I wrote it to where we're not like showing off these. She's not going up to the Griffith Observatory and bopping around. It's like she's either in her apartment or working at the diner. So it's like, oh, it's LA, but we'll shoot it in Fort Wayne. It's fine, it's fine.
Speaker 1:What's it like being? Because, with my personal experience, sometimes, when it comes to actors and actresses who have exclusively worked in theater, once they get in front of the camera, you have to end up toning down their projection. So what's your experience with being able to convert theatrical tendencies to being on camera?
Speaker 2:For the most part, I've been incredibly lucky. Again, a lot of the actors I've worked with are incredibly seasoned and they're just professional enough to trust your guidance. Every once in a while, uh, someone will come in really hot and you'll just be like you're at an eight. I need you at a two, a two, uh, and then sometimes you'll get in the editing room and be like their two was still maybe too big, um, but it's just a matter of like. I've been making short films for years and years and years. At this point, like honing my craft, and part of honing that craft is learning how to guide a performer to do what they need to do for the camera. You know, and and I've been lucky enough to work with people like morgan, who are just naturally talented and and can convert their performance to the screen, and I think there's a lot of times once it once an actor has a camera like two feet away from their face, there's something so intimate about it that a lot of times they do end up sort of just naturally falling into the rhythm of that. But, you know, sometimes you do sit down and say, hey, you know, when you flick your eyes to the right on camera. I'm right there. That is a huge movement. So just trust me and know that this is right. And when I was like shooting the trailer, for example, we were. We weren't doing full scenes, we were just doing shots. It's like this is the shot where you slam the table and a lot of the actors were like I just I'm feeling like out of the rhythm and I'm like I know, I know it feels weird, but trust me, like you're giving me everything I need. And then you know, when you cut the trailer together and they see it, they go, oh, and part of that is just like I think it's relevant to working with theater actors is just, as a director, developing your craft enough so so that actors can trust you, because it's about developing that trust with them. And so if, if a theater actor is coming in really big, uh, you need to be confident enough to guide them to where you need to be and not just like let them go crazy. And certainly in the past I've had like I said that that add an eight, bring it down to a two, oh, I'm in the editing room and the two still too big. Uh, I've certainly had that experience before, but thankfully I've been pretty lucky, but that's also, uh, I think this is probably the case for a lot of directors and stuff.
Speaker 2:I I don't I'm not particularly egotistical or confident about a lot of my skills, but if there's one thing that I'm egotistical about besides my writing, which I I feel very I, but that's because I've worked so hard on becoming a good writer. I think the one thing I have going for me personally and I assume a lot of people have this that rise up are is an eye for talent. Like I feel like when I see somebody, I know they're good, and so a lot of times the people that I'm working with, I see them in something and I'm like you have something, you're special, I want to work with you. And so generally when I get on set with people, it's because I've already just recognized something special in them and thankfully that has paid off a lot. For the most part, uh, I just think, and it's one of those things where, uh, I always tell I I held auditions for this film, right, and I had, you know, dozens and dozens of tapes I went through and it got to the point where it was really easy to sort of divide the tapes up between this person is still acting when they're not talking and this person's not like that's one of the biggest things is just like, are you still engaged in the scene?
Speaker 2:Are you still reacting, even when you're not speaking? I think that's one of the first big separations between, like, really good actors and and people that are new to the craft. I wouldn't I wouldn't say they're bad, they're just still learning. You know, uh, I've I've seen a lot of people who I deliver a line. Now I switch to off mode. Uh, and a lot of times when I'm watching people stuff, I recognize good actors by being like who is engaged in the scene still, even when they're not talking. I think that's something that's like really important to look out for. It happens on theater stages too, uh, because and that's what's so special about theater is you kind of make the show yourself as an audience member, you're choosing where you're looking, and a lot of times I'm looking at people that aren't talking to see if they're like engaged in the scene, because I I think that's so special, you know.
Speaker 1:Well, it's an underrated skill, Like you know, if you're an actor being able to have presence in the scene even if you have no dialogue, it's acting, isn't just, you know, saying words, it's, it's movement, it's posture, it's um, it's what you're doing with your hands. That's also one of the things that I noticed when I've had the occasions to direct. Something is that sometimes they don't know what to do with their hands.
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally, or they're doing too much with their hands especially if you're a theater actor. That's why everyone smokes in movies. It gives you something to do. You can just sit there with a cigarette and be like I'm doing something with my hand, do you can just sit there with a cigarette and be like I'm doing something with my hand.
Speaker 1:What's the most daunting aspects of this upcoming feature that you have that, um, I wouldn't say that you have, you're terrified for, but there's something about it that you haven't done before. Maybe that you're like ah okay, this is going to require a lot of mental work on my end to stay focused on and to be able to accomplish it technically I think it's time really is what it is is like raising money for this movie.
Speaker 2:The more money we raised in filmmaking.
Speaker 2:It's literally like money equals time and so the more money we had, the more time we have, and we raised a pretty significant amount of money and it's given us like a really good cushion.
Speaker 2:But it is a thing where it's like well, we're gonna have like a week to film this section of the script and it is a daunting aspect to we're probably going to be filming more pages a day than maybe somewhat by an infinite budget, I'd be filming like four pages a day.
Speaker 2:Um, I don't have infinite budget, so we're probably filming like eight pages a day, uh, and and that can be really hard if you're not on top of it and you don't have like a strict plan, then you can get behind so easily and that's pretty scary, especially when you know, honestly, this is the first film where people are putting their financial faith in me, like everything I've made up till now has been I put a little bit of my own money into it, uh, to rent the airbnb and like maybe I pay the sound guy and the actors if I'm lucky, and I feed everybody and that's fine. Uh, now, all of a sudden, people have given me money and they're like I'm lucky and I feed everybody and that's fine. Uh, now, all of a sudden, people have given me money and they're like I'm giving you money because you're supposedly a guy who knows what he's doing what's that feel like?
Speaker 2:it's like you said, that's what daunting I'm like. I don't know what I'm doing. What are you talking about? Why did anybody give me money? Uh, but you know, I, thankfully, I think I've been able to try to take some of that uh, some of that terror, and transition it into I want to pay off people's trust in me. So it just makes me want to work like five times harder to make sure that people's faith is, is not, has not been misplaced. And I'm excited. I'm excited to find out that's the kind of person I am and that I'm not just. I don't just want to curl up into a ball and give up and just be like why did anyone trust me? Instead, I'm like no, I will show you why. This was a good idea.
Speaker 2:Well, with each project, you figure out a little bit more about yourself that you didn't know beforehand, and so there ends up being a lot of personal growth, surprisingly, when it comes to, you know, producing your own creative projects, definitely, and it's like, uh, you know sometimes when it's I was, I have a podcast and I have to schedule it sometimes. And there was I was having a conversation with someone and she was like at one point she was like what's your sign? I was like what do you mean? She's like are you a Pisces? You're really indecisive and I was like I was like, well, I was like I just don't want to, I just want to be flexible with when your schedule is. But it actually kind of put me in like an existential thought where I was like, well, I'm indecisive when I want to be polite and like I'm doing scheduling and stuff, but like when you're on set, you just have to have a vision and you have to be sure about certain things, because the whole being a director means answering all the questions all the time and the only way things get done is if somebody comes up to you and says like, do you want the shower curtains, uh, half open or fully closed? And it's on you to just be like half open, like instantaneously, you just have to just boom, make decisions and and some of that is like training that instinct. Some of that's just being like I'm right, because my gut is right, I guess, uh. And then some of that is just like having an actual vision.
Speaker 2:Uh, I think when it comes to this film, like the best way to save time is to know what you want and what you need. Uh, in the past I've gotten in trouble because I'll overshoot. I'll be like let's get a close-up of that. Okay, we'll run the whole scene in a medium and and it's like I get in the editing room and I've got five different shots of the exact same line. You use one shot and I it's like I get in the editing room and I've got five different shots of the exact same line.
Speaker 2:You use one shot, and I was like, wow, I really wasted a lot of time shooting this chunk of the scene when really I should have known I want this in a close and that should have been it and that's been. Thankfully, I've learned that lesson on other projects and I'm carrying that forward in this feature. I'm like we are going to be so strapped for time all the time and it's on me to be like this is the vision, this is what we need to get this scene done and that's it. I think like again, it's about time. Sure, it would be fun to just play around and see what happens, and I do like that. Sometimes I do discover happy accidents where it's like oh, this moment I'm glad I was shooting in a wide because the other actor did something really fun and I want to see that.
Speaker 1:But it's, yeah, it's a weird push and pull.
Speaker 2:How long? How many pages is the script and how long is your shooting schedule? Curiously, the script right now is 88 pages. Um, and then going back to that very first feature I talked about, I learned a really hard lesson, which is like, if you're nobody which I am nobody wants to see your two-hour movie. Uh, and so I've had a very steadfast commitment to. I was like the next time I make a feature it will be 90 minutes on the dot or less, and, generally speaking, the rule of pages is that a page equals a minute. It usually evens out, and so I've tried to keep keep this script as like lean and mean as possible.
Speaker 2:Uh, I'm working on another draft right now where I'm looking at anything else. I can sort of strip out and trim down and you know I have a tendency to overwrite dialogue and I'll go, I'll go back to it and just be like oh, this character ripped off a whole paragraph when they could have just looked at her and said no, and that gets the same thing done, maybe even more powerfully. Uh, and and so and I think that's part of rewriting is like being like here's what the character's saying, what they mean. How do I bury that under a little more subtext and make it more interesting. But shooting schedule, it's pretty, it's pretty wild. Uh, at the end of september we're going to take like essentially a week to shoot like the last two-thirds of the script, which almost exclusively take place in a single location, and then we're going to kind of do pickup shoots for jamie's life in la uh, the person that's playing her girlfriend, shelby lewis, is lives in la, even though she's a fort way native. She moved out to la two years ago and she's doing really cool things. So it's a matter of like finding the weekend where we fly her in and uh shooting the girlfriend scenes, like in like two to three days uh, and getting that sort of done.
Speaker 2:And thankfully, a lot of the using heavy air quotations here like LA stuff, it's almost exclusively I've almost exclusively cast it with Fort Wayne locals, so I can kind of pick those shoots up in October and just figure some of those out, whereas, whereas, like the family, I've got uh Jill Ann Marie Klaus she's coming in from St Louis and I've got Chase Strange, who's coming in for Tara Ho, and it's like I gotta bring all these people together and so we just need to get them together, shoot that stuff and get it done, whereas, like the Fort Wayne stuff is like probably going to be, you know, six or seven days of like pickup shoots when we can like schedule everything around, cause I'm in this weird uh but in both worlds thing where I'm working with a lot of professional people, but I am also working with people who have day jobs, uh, and you know one of the again.
Speaker 2:Another thing that's nice about being in the Midwest is like, oh, I'll be in your movie, just don't schedule me on Tuesdays cause that's my heavy work day. Or just let me know and I'll ask for work off on Friday and we can shoot and it's all good you know, are you uh producing this or do you have any help with that?
Speaker 2:um, I mean technically, uh, when it films this small. Yes, I'm wearing a producer hat, but thankfully I've got uh, victoria Brittain, who again was someone that, uh, I met a while ago and she's the one that you know connected me with malachi uh, who was on the show previously, and she's been so huge in helping me put together stuff. She's just so good with schedules and and reaching out to people and I was on the local news recently and it's because of her. She put together a press release and sent out all these press junkets to people. And then wayne 15 was like hey, come on our show. And I was like cool, and then I had people that I hadn't talked to in years reaching out and being like I saw you on the news wouldn't have happened without victoria, uh, so I'm really, really thankful to have her help. Uh, also, my casting director, chelsea kern, uh is a producer on the film as well. Chelsea helped me find some of the people that are in the movie and they've just been super huge behind the scenes, like helping me put certain things together as well. And then some of my executive producers have really shown out too.
Speaker 2:A recent friend of mine, lisa Marie Smith she read the script and was like I'm picturing this for this location. I was like that's pretty great actually. I was like I'll follow up on that. I I there's a supposed to be like a non-descript building that the character goes to. And she sent me a picture and was like, think like this. And I was like, yeah, that's perfect. Oh, my god, I'm gonna like get in contact with the owner and stuff and so and it's been hard because, like all my short films generally, I am like the sole producer, I'm putting everything together, and it's been a learning process to be like oh, I can trust other people to do stuff yeah, that's kind of the hardest transitions is, you know, when you're producing your own stuff is to actually pass on something really important that is critical to someone else and just have faith they're going to be able to pull it off.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It can be really hard too. I definitely, you know, I spent all of my school years being the guy in the group project who had to do everything and even making the short films a lot of times, like because no one believes in the project as much as you, and that's always going to come. That's always going to be a thing, no matter what, no matter how much help you have. It's been a hard lesson. That other my other fellow filmmakers sometimes have to learn is like they think everyone's gonna like care as much as they do, and and it's it's like you have to learn time and time again like no one cares as much as you do, uh, and that's okay, cause some people will still care and they will help you and you can trust them because they're professional and good at what they do.
Speaker 2:Uh, but it is also on you to make sure you're still shouldering some of the burden and carrying the torch and stuff. Uh, some of the burden and carrying the torch and stuff. But because I've done that solo for so long, it's been a really interesting experience being like oh, people come through. I'm not used to this. This is amazing. It's hard to not start to feel a little spoiled.
Speaker 1:How do you feel your short films have best prepared you to be able to tackle a feature?
Speaker 2:I think, just in general, they have made me be really realistic about what's possible. I just understand what shoot days look like. I understand what's possible to achieve. You know one of my recent short films that I released, the Escort. We shot that over the course of two days.
Speaker 2:I think there's a world where I could have tried to push for that to be a single day shoot, but it was like it was like a 14 page script and at the end of the day it's like no, you need to rent the airbnb for three days and we need to take two days to shoot this and really get it right.
Speaker 2:And and it's like sometimes you look at it and you're like it's just two characters sitting around and talking.
Speaker 2:It's like that still takes time.
Speaker 2:And that's the biggest thing is just using the short films as like a gauge to understand what's possible and what amount of time and and sort of like.
Speaker 2:Multiplying that over the course of like a feature and then again also just making the short films has made me think more visually, uh, in my writing and so like, and it's like less stakes, you know, it's like, oh, we're shooting five pages, we're just throwing stuff at the wall, let's try this, let's try this, and it's given me room to throw stuff at the wall and figure out what works and what doesn't. Uh, whereas like, and again, that was why it was weird to jump into a feature as, like the first thing, uh, because you know, now the feature is just filled to the brim of things that maybe weren't the best idea, that we could have probably figured out if we had started a little smaller. But I I think that you just everything is, everything is learned, is a learning exercise, and I always say like I learn things the hard way and like every mistake I've ever made on a short film I've carried forward to as a lesson and I'm taking all of that with me into this feature.
Speaker 1:Well, Jake, it's been great getting to know you. Thanks for coming on the podcast.
Speaker 2:Thanks so much for having me. I just thought anybody that's like, hey, I want you to talk at me for a while. I'm like, oh my God, am I dreaming?
Speaker 1:I got one final question what makes filmmaking worth the headaches and the heartbreaks?
Speaker 2:I think filmmaking is one of the things that I do think is so special about. Film is and this is maybe like a little existential, but it lives forever. Like I love plays, I love going and seeing on the stage, there's something live and vibrant about it. But to me, I'm like film is forever and you, everything leads to this moment where this character is is giving this performance, and it's profound and moving and it's captured forever. You can, you can go back and look at my short films and and they'll just, they're just snapshots in time of a story, and and I just think that the fact that it's so permanent is what makes it so beautiful.
Speaker 2:And you know, film, just in general, it's a special medium because they're so, it's visual and visual, but it's sonic as well, and it's the culmination of all these different elements that come together that make it sort of unlike anything.
Speaker 2:And I don't know. I'm someone that likes going to the theater and experiencing a film, and it's really just so fun to get swept away for two hours and just live in someone else's world for a while, and I think every piece of every medium of art is special in its own way, but film, to me, is it's the culmination of all of these elements that sort of puts it over the top for me, and it's so much build up I always say it's like months, if not years, of pre-pro and all this work, work, work, work, work. To just be on set for one week and then it's over in a flash and it's like, why do we do this to ourselves? It's because we're making something that will live forever and be permanent and and it's like this piece of yourself that you're putting out into the world and I just I don't know, there's really nothing quite like it.
Speaker 1:Well, that's beautiful.
Speaker 2:And you can buy my book of poetry about filmmaking on www. I'm just kidding wwwnonexistentwebsitecom. Oh wait, that one's taken. Probably honestly. Well, jake, thanks. Non-existent website. Oh wait, that one's taken probably honestly.
Speaker 2:Well, jake, thanks for coming on thank you so much for having me. This has been a treat. I, uh, I really appreciate it. Uh, I think that people are doing stuff like you that are connecting with filmmakers and getting the word out are so important, and it's just so. In my own podcast, I've used it to make so many connections, and so it's just. There's my own podcast, I've used it to make so many connections, and so it's just. There's nothing like sitting and talking to someone like this and that's a long, long form content. You know, we don't get to just have conversations that often, and so this is really special. Thank you so much for having me. Of course, you.