Focal Point
Conversations with artists across all industries, taking a deep dive into the nuances, techniques, and philosophies of society's talent.
Focal Point
Inside SAG Pay, Residuals, And The Hustle #58 Actor-Model Maureo Ruffin
How do you build a creative career that actually pays? Actor-model Maureo Ruffin breaks down the real money behind acting and modeling—SAG pay, residuals, clean bookings vs. scams, and the mistakes that cost new actors time and cash.
We cover practical acting tools that work on camera, self-tape errors that kill auditions, industry red flags to avoid, and how to stay mentally steady through near-miss roles. We also talk AI in entertainment, SAG-AFTRA protections, and navigating union vs. non-union work.
If you’re auditioning, seeking representation, or chasing your first commercial or film role, this episode gives you clear guardrails and real-world insight.
Welcome to the Focal Point Podcast. I'm your host, Tony Riggs. Here I take a deep dive into my personal interests of the hidden craftsmanship, philosophies, and passions behind society's talent. If you're intrigued by artistic nuance, please subscribe and follow on my YouTube channel, Spotify, and Buzz Sprout. With that being said, let me introduce you to today's guests. Yeah, welcome to the podcast. I appreciate you coming on. Okay, gotcha.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I did some SAG films. Uh I'm still waiting on one to come out uh and still get paid for it. I still haven't got paid for yet.
SPEAKER_01:But I mean interesting like how the payment system works because it's never because I know SAG has their own like expectations for how that works. Does it does the payment system for um jobs that you get go through SAG and then they pay you? Or is it direct?
SPEAKER_00:This is how it works. Uh, because I did a commercial modeling, which was SAG uh back in February. So uh they um they have a set plan of what would take place each day, and they would be base it off of that day on how much you get paid and the time you put in. So uh when they pay you, some SAG jobs they will pay you like that same week. Um I mean, if you're going through an agent, they may pay you, it could be a month to seven months.
SPEAKER_01:Really?
SPEAKER_00:I mean, I booked Yeah, I but I book Who's this lottery commercial? I still get paid for that because it's a residual commercial.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:So uh I still get paid for that.
SPEAKER_01:How how hard are residual um uh gigs uh hard to come by? Are those kind of rare? Are they standard, or does it just depend on the project that you do?
SPEAKER_00:Um really depends on the project, but usually they are rare because you know don't no one really want to pay anyone. So uh this one would just happen to be I landed this one based off of the commercial modeling idea in Jasper, Indiana. So I was able to land this one like I want to say it's like three days later. I mean, because it last February, which this February coming up, it's a lot of stuff going on as well. It's a lot of modeling going on uh that will take place, but it's not local in February. So February is the hardest sacrifices. I mean, every February gets hectic for me. Every February and every October. Uh yeah, I will be talking to you about October as well.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, all right.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, but uh but residual jobs, they they're rare. They uh they are hard to come by because I thought the Ohio one was going to be good, but she just said keep submitting. And I just went to Indiana and just booked that one within three days, three days.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. Well, congratulations. Um, thank you. I'm gonna I know I'm gonna get this wrong. How do you pronounce your name? Mario. It's just about different. Okay, gotcha. It's just about different. Gotcha. Okay. Well, Mario, welcome to the podcast. We're recording. Um I I remember I met you actually, I think I yeah, I met you at this uh networking event that was hosted by Winterfilm, I think maybe a month and a half-ish ago, something like that.
SPEAKER_00:Um it was like the early part of November.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I remember the I remember how cold it was because I I had to ride my motorcycle there. Yeah. I was very bundled up. I had like four layers of sweatpants underneath, and you know, by the time I was sitting around the camp with like the little heat lamps or whatever they call them, I was just burning up. And then you know, everyone's but it was nice to meet you, and then I got a little bit more acquainted and you shared some of your work, and I thought it'd be interesting to bring you on and just uh you know see what you're about. So just take a second to introduce yourself, what you do, and how you got started.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, uh, my name's Mario Ruffin, 26. Uh, I got started. Like I had this dream and vision when I was five years old. I wanted to start then, but of course, I had uh parents that wanted different things at the time. So I of course had to go through the dreams of seeing inspirations that just made it me uh step up my game a little bit more. So then as I got 20 years old, I took the first uh workshop. You know Steve Franca Steve Franca, that's his name.
SPEAKER_01:I've heard the name.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, uh, of course. I wasn't very experienced, and yes, he's very cutthroat at the time. So I went, I did two classes with him, and then I got sent to Cheryl Couch, who passed away back in August, uh August of last year.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. R.I.P. She is my favorite, loved her. But uh I worked with her all the way up to the year 24, yeah, the year she passed away, all the way up to that year.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Um, because we did some auditions together. Yes, got caught up with the wrong person outside of her, so was dealing with scammers.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so uh just a little bit of context. Uh what were these uh people's roles in your labor? Were they like mentors or like teachers?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, mentors.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Mentors, and then it was uh, yeah, Sheryl Couch. Well, Steve Frank uh was uh yeah, he's an acting coach. And then, yeah, I'm I forgot to mention a part. I worked with an actor from the Halloween uh Rob Zombie film. I worked with that actor too. He played the Kim Michael Myers. I became good friends with him, actually. Like we still we we talk every here and there, we text. He asked me how things are going. He's excited. He remembered when I first started.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. And you've you've done now you you've done acting on you know theater and now starting to do a lot more film-related things. Yeah, but I started with theater.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, I started with Native Sun was the first one.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_00:No, that it was Doubt. It was of Pat. Yeah, it was called Doubt. Father Flynn was the first role. I did that with Richard Mason. We did it a class of it, and we actually performed it and and he filmed it.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
unknown:All right.
SPEAKER_00:So uh it was then I went straight into it was another feature film that happened, but I got stood up. He the guy don't know what he did with it.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so then that's when especially with a lot of projects early on in indie projects, is that you just don't know who's serious about what they're doing or not, because they often they're they talk a big game, you know, especially if you know you're getting a lot of uh sources from like uh Facebook, which is where a lot of people start out on, you know, and I've talked to a lot of other actors that I know. And if they don't have like a large resume, you know, that they you can go and look at, you know, uh, and you it's just a gamble. And you hope you're feeling like a really you know person with the integrity.
SPEAKER_00:I I really stopped using Facebook uh to book gigs because of stuff like that. So I see people post it and like the Indiana boys. Like I work with them on that rise above the realm film, and they they are just funny acting. Like I it's hard to get in touch with them. Of course, they're not paying no one to do it. So, and they live about, I want to say, yeah, Jasper, Indiana. That's where they're doing it. That's where I booked that high-paid commercial modeling gig. That's about three three hours away. You gotta go through Louisville, Kentucky to get there. So uh they calling for extras for their film. I I just didn't do it. I didn't submit to it. Okay because like I just didn't think that it'd be worth it.
SPEAKER_01:No, well, you said you started, you got you knew what you wanted to do from the second when you were like five years old. What happened when you were five, or what did you see or experience that said, okay, that I know now what I want to do with my life?
SPEAKER_00:Uh this is this gonna sound crazy. Look, there's a quite a few movies that I've seen. Uh I watched child actors growing up. Of course, Home Alone was an inspiration. That was my inspiration. And there was, I mean, what's the other movie? I can't think of it. It was another movie. And I know the child's play. You remember Chucky. Oh, yeah. That was that was a good one. You remember Chucky, right? Yeah, I do.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:That was that one was. Uh, I said, oh, I love, but I mean, it was it was scary at the time, and of course, I went, it wasn't something I wanted to watch by myself at the time. Yeah, so it was just that inspiration. And yes, I got to meet them actually, I got to meet every one of them actors eventually. So uh I started auditioning, and then that's how I landed the role Native Sun in the Broadway uh production. We filmed, we did that in Madisonville of Cincinnati.
SPEAKER_01:Well, nice.
SPEAKER_00:And then uh there was a casting director that reached out to me uh from Chicago. That's where the big pay Broadway came from.
SPEAKER_01:So where where did that take place at? Was did that was that, you know, because Broadway, you know, tends to travel around. Did you travel around with them or was it more of a local thing that happened that was kind of a one and done?
SPEAKER_00:Uh with NATO Sun or Pray for the Wicked?
SPEAKER_01:Uh Pray for the Wicked.
SPEAKER_00:Pray for the Wicked was a traveler. We still, she's still working on uh trying to do it in Atlas, North Carolina. That's where it really took place. Uh I will hear something by April. We still we still uh got networking things going on. They got some other things that are coming up. I will eventually like the thing is is about finding a a house out there where I can come back here and do things and go out there. I mean, I'm I'm pro I'm in the process of working with that because that's that's a process.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. And when did you get um sign on to a talent agency?
SPEAKER_00:I want to say February of last year. February of 2024.
SPEAKER_01:I see. But so before that you were going around and trying to garner gigs and jobs and stuff like that on your own.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. It it was successful uh on my own. I have booked more on my own and made more money on my own. I have made money through agencies and booked things through through them, that residuals commercial. Um but I have did things on my own and this has been successful. I kinda I now have New York reaching out. Um I will show you the emails after we get off.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. Alright. And now are these what has tell me about the dichotomy between you know you trying to do business on your own versus relying, you know, more so on an agency to be able to, you know, garner those jobs and stuff like that. Okay. Do you regret like I mean, obviously when you sign on to a talent, you're like, okay, maybe I get less jobs, but the jobs will be better. You know, they'll be you know higher paying, they'll be get a little bit more recognition, and or at least like you'll have a sustainable, like at the very least, a middle class like actor um income and stuff like that. Because that's where most actors are nowadays, you know, going to the top of the cream of the crop. That's a you know, it's a it's a pipeline dream that you know you can only hope that it eventually works out if you work hard enough for, but you know, a lot of actors they end up at in the middle class range, but they do make a living off of it, you know, just doing commercials and modeling and that sort of thing. So tell me about your experience of doing things on your own versus your experience so far versus with being it with a talent agency.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, doing business on my own because uh traveling a lot. So I just kind of have networked with people and I have put myself out there. A lot of people love my look, and there are some that don't, though, because we all have those that like our look, and we have those who don't like our looks. So I based off of that, um doing business on my own, like I've had more success. I mean, I had a lot more bookings than on my own because I built this networking team and I reach out and I go to events. And because just like with that film, I did that I mean, I did that for Patrick and Mike's benefit. I went and then they told me, oh, we have future things, please come out. We would love to have you in our movie, our next movie that's coming. So it's kind of like one of those things. Like, and then there was another Broadway thing that happened. It didn't work out because of it being so far away and and trying to make sacrifices, it just wasn't gonna work.
SPEAKER_01:I see.
SPEAKER_00:He just he just said that oh, he will be a great fit. He has that look. But I went, he went with the other person because it was gonna be a lot of wear and tear and stuff, but they were going to pay really good for it. And it was going to, but it was just so far away.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_00:It it and because I put myself through the Chicago one, it was gonna be hard to do that a second time. So uh, so really doing things on my own, I just like you gotta go farther out and just go to those bigger marketings to where they asset uh my talent and look and resume. And so with an agent, agents are very last minute, like mainly around, especially around this area. I have agents in different marketings, it's just that the traveling sometimes can be much. Um, so when it comes to having an agent around here, yes, uh I day job is hard, and uh it gets it gets frustrating. You do these auditions, and sometimes you hear back, sometimes you don't. But I've been more on the hearing back side uh versus not hearing back. So Okay. Why do you think that is uh maybe they see something I'm not seeing?
SPEAKER_01:It's my look. That's it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, a lot of people say that it's my look, but I have had one person that didn't like it.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, well, I double-if you've got a high hit rate with people liking the way you look. I mean, I'd I'd say that's a pretty good deal.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, but I had one person that didn't, and he's very specific about everything. Like he won't he won't cast a blonde to even dye her hair brunette. He said, if you're not if you don't look like that, you can't be on here. And he got people that even have the look, but he would go specifically off their age, saying, You're not you're not this age, so you I'm not going to cast you even if you have the look. Okay, and then it would be something stereotypical. Like, I can see you playing a runway model who murders divas. Okay, I mean, like he said something like that. I said, you know what, uh, it's a done deal. I don't care to work for him. He doesn't pay that much, and he doesn't, and he just that cutthroat, like he books people that's like uh have a 1930s, 40s, 50s look.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, gotcha.
SPEAKER_00:I said, look, I'm not looking for that anyways.
SPEAKER_01:Do you feel like you end up getting stereotyped a lot?
SPEAKER_00:May really just that one time, mainly.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, just one time.
SPEAKER_00:Uh, I mean, I don't know if someone does it behind my back, at least they haven't said anything to me specifically, but that one person has.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. Well, there may maybe there's more dicks, they're just polite about it. Who knows?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Uh, but I have a resume to show that person. I said, I booked more than I said, so what do you want everybody to be clean cut? My thing is with that, is like that's very specific as well, though. Like, not everybody is gonna want uh a male with just clean cut. Like, that's too that's start everybody started off that way. Okay, like having that diverse and standing out, like because people think my look is unique and it stands out, and because I had another agent that told me, Oh, you have a really great look. But they had too many people with my look, so I had to go find a different agent.
SPEAKER_01:I see. Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Well, there's uh definitely two things that I really would like to talk about today is is one, you know, your craft of acting, the theater versus film, because you know, those are two very different styles of being able to portray and communicate a performance. And then also the the modeling side, because that is one that I'm actually much more ignorant about. And I've actually I didn't know how many how how large how large of a need that there was actually for actors and talent just to do uh commercial and modeling for that specific. That seems to be like a lot of bread and butter when you don't have that main gig going on just to be able to like go do this for you know a day or two, you know, a few times a month, just to be able to, you know, keep things lucrative.
SPEAKER_00:But yeah, but sometimes when modeling is more organized than acting is a lot of times. Is it? Because the reason why I say that is because with acting, we had to pay for our own accommodations a lot of times. Because that SAG film was local, we like I was happy. Um like I was just happy to go down there because we started downtown, we worked our way all around the city to do that movie. Uh, but with the modeling, they pay for our hotels, they pay for our food. We didn't have to pay for anything. We was able to have whatever we wanted. So uh on top of getting money for it. So with having that experience, she just was happy to say, you got the job, you we want to bring you on. Okay, okay, that's with the commercial. Now, with high fashion, the whole diff is so competitive, but high fashion, it's not much money there, but it's definitely is a New York. Like, but around here, the most you probably get paid is a thousand dollars.
SPEAKER_01:Uh one day.
SPEAKER_00:Uh yes, one day, but as many designers you gotta walk for, though.
SPEAKER_01:Oh no, no, I'm not I'm not bashing the uh I mean uh economics of the thing, don't get me wrong. Um but I had to work modeling when it came to uh once you got the talent agency, or when before you were doing anything else in your own, it was mostly for uh film and acting as well as theater.
SPEAKER_00:I got it as soon as I really took the workshop. So they as I took this acting workshop, they started explaining modeling. They started saying there's much. To make in that, and they start saying, Oh, you have a great look, so you do you want to give it a try? Yeah, and I so uh I started out with uh dynamic uh workshop with modeling. Okay, yeah, uh I got pictures of it. I just got paid for it a thing I did in October. Uh so I said, yeah, I'll give it a try and I will audition for it. So I built this networking team uh up in Dayton. We go out, we do shoots and stuff. The last one you've seen the Dunes look, right? The Dunes.
SPEAKER_01:I did, yeah, yeah. I went through those pictures. They they they clearly had a vision going into that shoot of what they wanted to accomplish. And for the audience who don't earn a lot of people.
SPEAKER_00:You saw me with the shovels, the dead dogs, and stuff.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. Yep.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so we built that whole networking team. We I think it's now been a year that we built that whole thing. I I I started this because I started putting myself out there, started posting the pictures of me being the C I was the CEO of her, I was see uh a CEO of one of the victorious actors. So I used that suit to uh to post, and they said, okay, so we'd like for you to join our team. I said, okay, let me give this a try again. So we did this, we started with the Christmas because this started no November, the end of November of last year. So we did the Christmas shoot. Then the next one we did, yeah, it was the arcade shoot. So it was a free, it was a lifestyle of gaming. Of course, we we like the game sometimes, we like to do those things. So that was like one of the best ones for me. And then that's when I landed the commercials. Yeah, because they saw my diverse look and they saw my portfolio. So, I mean, I still got another photographer that reached out and they wanted uh me to do some things for their portfolio.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. Since you started doing the modeling, have you noticed what are the organizational aspects and skills that you've witnessed in the modeling world that you think a lot of these indie productions when it comes to uh directing their actors as well as their own uh schedules and logistics that you think that those people can learn from? Because the impression that I get is that the modeling world, it's very I don't want to say strict or rigid.
SPEAKER_00:It is strict, it's very strict. They are very strict. Yeah, they are very cutthroat and strict.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, they're like it. Alright, outta here, go. Is it is it is it that strict or is it more like um uh world there's a there's it can be very casual, it could also be it can be very casual and laid-backed, or you can meet that one director or that artist that that once you come on to their project that is a micromanager. You know, there's so many different types of personalities that you run into in the theater and film world, but um, I'm just curious about the contrast of that with the modeling world.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, with the modeling world, okay. We they were so strict to where we couldn't even look, we couldn't look at our phones, we couldn't do anything. We were on a strict diet. They had only certain foods we can eat. We couldn't eat certain things, like if we're going to do the runway, we got to cut back on our carbs and sugar things. Like we have a specific diet we have to follow up until that runway. Uh, so that's why you see we look like stick figures in that summer shoot. Because we can't uh we just stay out of vegetables. Uh that it's definitely a strict eating thing. But what we wear and stuff, they they're very specific about the color. If they don't want, they don't want things too dark and they don't want it super bright either. Like when I did that jean outfit, the street wear, they said they wanted a dark blue. And I I had to go pick the jacket out because of course uh we got that we got the discounts for the clothes because we if we model for something, we get discounts on on clothes sometimes, if if it depends on the season. Okay, okay, so uh I was able to get that jacket, so they gave it to me for I want to say 10 1099. That was really uh that's really a hundred dollar jacket. So I had to uh get that specific color because I gave them the clear instructions on I have to have this for the street wear, I have to have this because they presenting this jewelry, like yeah, I had to model for this jewelry as well. That's how I was able to get that. So they give us discounts for that, those things. And when they're very specific, yeah, you have to follow that or you can't walk the runway, or you can't appear in that commercial modeling because they have specific aspects on what they want us to bring. Yeah, uh Katie sent us a message saying, bring this, bring that. So it yeah, Strict.
SPEAKER_01:What does your talent agency expect from you in order to maintain your appearances and being able to just be presentable in general for potential gigs and prospecting clients? And the you know, the I asked this question because I'm curious about what the demands are from you on personally on your end, like off hours of when you're not working.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so for our for the talent agency's sake, we uh we present ourselves and walk in that likeness of the model, of the actor. We uh because their expectations that we can't do like certain, they catch us doing certain things, they may drop us. Uh if we like, okay, we abusing drugs or something, they find out they will drop you. If you um like around this marketing, because it's a start mainly, uh they are like I'm gonna say they more laid back in this marketing versus if y'all go to New York or Los Angeles, that's when that's when they lay in it down. Like, you can't do this, you can't do that, we can't have you doing this. Um like you uh audition for a role and stuff, they if they don't think it's a good fit, they'll tell you not to take the role. They would tell you to uh yeah, I did the liquor commercial, Los Angeles hosted that. So they thought I had I was a great fit. They liked everything about they liked everything about me. They it it paid really good. Um so their expectations w are certain things we just not allowed to do, especially out there.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. Well, I'm curious about why the strictness of you know models and and and sp and talent when it comes to like the diet and the the modeling world, because I look at some of these out and I'm just saying uh curious as an outsider, because when I see some of these outfits, like especially in high fashion, I see you know people that are clearly very, you know, thin, but then they have these giant or or weirdly shaped, you know, outfits that you know the the the high design the high fashion designers have you know custom made for the model as well as their collection and their line of clothing. Why if why why is such amount of strictness if it's just gonna end if you as the model except for maybe your face is gonna get covered up in a specific way? Is it just to be able to have a blank template to be able to do whatever they want with, essentially?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, or it's yeah, it's like that because they want the talent to be able to fit all the clothes. So um they I know they have these baggy outfits and then they have the outfits that cover our faces. And yes, we are forced to wear makeup. We regardless if you need it or not, we are forced to wear it because they made me wear that. They made all of us put that on. We had to wear the makeup, different different colors of it because uh their vision is like they want this, they they wanted it to fade as much as they want to as their visionary art, because they have a specific vision. So they literally drew this, they literally took a class on this, they drew their their vision, they put it on paper, and then they showed us what they wanted to look like. And we so they with us doing that, we have to wear makeup, we have to have a certain body for it, a certain that's why when you go and apply for a model at HC, they ask for instinct, they ask for all these things, so because they have their vision or how it would fit the SAS they would have. I mean, I wear a medium, so that I was a perfect size for everything. Because I work, I walked for like four different designers that week that weekend. It was just a whole high fashion weekend. Fashion weekends, yeah, it was the early part of August. So that that was the summer wear, street wear, and it was uh modeling their suits.
SPEAKER_01:What has been the most surprising thing about the modeling world that once you got into it, that you think a lot of other people that who aren't into it that are outsiders like me just don't understand when it comes to the work getting put into it?
SPEAKER_00:See, yeah, that's the part I want to cover. High fashion for not to pay so much is very competitive. Okay, so high fashion they want stick figures almost. And they want a bit it is hard to understand at first because I was even trying to understand it. Like, they want this, they want the look. I I can get them that. And they said, come on, we want to see you uh do it. So the in order to understand it is like when you think about these big brand stores like the billboards and stuff, eventually ours will come out. I don't know where they're going to put them at. They said they will send us the videos, uh, and they will send us the plan on where everybody's look will go. I'm still waiting on that. They said in the next couple days they will send it. It took a long time to get all this back, all of our material.
SPEAKER_01:How long are we talking? Like months? Like yes, months since August. Oh, oh, last August, okay.
SPEAKER_00:No, since this uh past August.
SPEAKER_01:I I I forget what even day it is. I keep forgetting Christmas is this week, actually.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So uh it I think we meant we mainly tried to do for Macy's brand, like the Jean denim jacket look. Yeah, it was my favorite one because I've been wanting to book that. I mean, with the commercial, like with the commercial model, it wasn't my dream one, but it was a great one though.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Because I mean, I was able to be the nurse, I was able to be the student, and I was able to be um a patient to where I'll still I still look for that video. I don't know if Katie will release it or not, but okay. So in order to understand this, it's kind of like learn as you go, because everybody as Fearman is kind of different with how they observe it. So high fashion is very hard to understand a lot of times.
SPEAKER_01:What have been the conversations between you and other models and talent and talent in the modeling and fashion world about just the industry in and of itself? Because I'm like, I'm just thinking about like when behind the runway, everyone's ready. You know, obviously they're all focused, but you know, there's a lot of prep that goes into these shows and things like that.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, there was a lot of anxiety for me when I first started that because I I mean I was sweating bullets at first because the news was there, and then they asked me to do the news article for them. And yeah, I did the video and everything, but then they said, Oh, you were not working for two designer, you gotta hurry up, change, hurry up, and change. It was kind of like that. So I had this big suitcase because as models and stuff, we gotta carry suitcases like almost every day. Like, because we never know who's gonna call us. We never know when it like we're on call like 24-7. Sometimes I call people, they they have called me late at night.
SPEAKER_01:And I'm so you always have a travel bag packed ready to go at a moment's notice.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yes, we have to. It's mandatory for models, for models and actors almost is kind of mandatory because we never know when we're gonna get that call. It can be last minute. So that's the part I wanted to cover as well with the agency, because a lot of their calls are last minute. Because when they called me for that that liquor commercial, uh that didn't it didn't get residuals, and I didn't get the footage either because I was gonna use that for another one. So when they called me on that, I literally had a day and a half to prepare for that. So I had to pack a suitcase because I had to bring uh quite a few uh quite a few sweaters, but of course the pants didn't matter, but uh but quite a few sweaters and stuff. So I drove all the way up to Toledo. It was at night because I had to stay up there that whole day, on top of doing Broadway as well. So I had to rush back and then be back at the theater within that same day. Like that that was an exhausting day. I was like, I just can't wait for this performance to be over.
SPEAKER_01:That's very go, go, go.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, go, go, go. So that's kind of so yes, we gotta have a bag handy for those reasons. I always uh keep clothes wash and uh suitcases uh ready at all times.
SPEAKER_01:What has been the most stressful project that you've had to do for a date? Specifically modeling. I'll get into the you know the theater and the film uh a little bit later.
SPEAKER_00:Uh so modeling. Okay. The most stressful one was the one on the Saturday, the Saturday one. There's the Darius Bloom one. I would say you bought you.
SPEAKER_01:Huh? This la the very last one that you did.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, uh, where I had to be the sun, moon, goddess, and uh blue, blue wave uh merman. Uh yeah, that was the last one.
SPEAKER_01:I love how eccentric the fashion world is. It's it's very it seems very eccentric to me.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and the thing about the second day one, that one was stressful because I forgot my jewelry that day, but I was able to make use of something. But the thing was there were some makeup artists there. We had to bring our own and do our own. So if it so if it was messed up, it was messed up. So because we were forced to wear, I had to wear the makeup because the sun moon goddess, a king, he had to wear makeup. I had I just had an hour to look at this whole vision and had to literally paint myself to be that.
SPEAKER_01:So that's they didn't have something pre-planned for you to do for them to say, hey, you come here, uh, do it for us, and you're gonna like it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, uh that one that one was like that. But the first one, uh we we did a photo shoot to promote it. So they kind of but the thing, the stressful thing was they changed our outfits. Like they every time we saw them, and every time we met up, they changed the outfits. I started off with a red and black outfit. Then I went to the gray and light blue outfit. Then they just do me with the dark blue outfit, jean outfit. They sent me what they wanted, their vision, and I said, okay, I only have a day to figure this out, so let me go figure this out. So I was able to get the boots completely for sale, and I was able to get the jacket at a lower price. I said, so this worked out in my favor. So I show up, and then they gave me all these beads and stuff to put on the outfit. So uh I'm like, okay, so then I had to uh do the buck the man bond because they wanted that too.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, and you got like a long, you got some you got some hair you gotta figure out what the what to do with in the first place.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so it was that it was that reason. Uh and they said then that's when uh then I had to work for another designer, which he was uh he's from Cabodian. Like he's uh out of the country, they came on a boat, they brought their outfits, and they said, Okay, you we want you walker walking for us too. Your look is everything. I'm like, okay, I can do this. I'm like, then there was another one that wanted it. I said, we only allowed to walk for two people. Uh, because it was gonna be too much to walk for three.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_00:And then they wanted this all black outfit. I'm like, my is that really gonna show? So I had to turn one of them down, which I don't like to do it, but you a person can only deal with so much at one time, and especially when all this happened in one day, and then the next day was another one to where I had to forcefully bring my own makeup, had to forcefully do my own hair. I had to do things I didn't know how to do. I live like it, it was that uh stressful to where we all just put our auto models, we just put our hands together and we just made it happen.
SPEAKER_01:Is this have you heard of experience more of like a one-off scenario that you just were surprised that it was organized or unorganized rather than this way? Because what you described to me earlier is like they typically they tend to be very organized, and you know, you should you know do this, show up on this date, yada yada. But it seems like it was very, very in a rush.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah, the force the first one was organized, but they kept changing our outfits. That's the only thing that wasn't organized. They kept switching our visions on what they wanted us to wear, and now with the second one, they had everything planned on what we wanted to wear: the gold blazer, the blue merman. Uh, but we didn't have no artists or nothing there, so we were just left on our own to do everything. But they had but we had to work for Victoria. You have you ever heard of Hot Top Models, Victoria?
SPEAKER_01:No, I haven't.
SPEAKER_00:But I'll explain it to you more after we get off. Okay, okay, yeah. So she came from High Top Models, and she had uh this vision, she forgot to bring in the male clothes, so we had to make it stretch for her. So she appeared in our show. We did the sunflower, she we did the sunflower look as well, like, yeah. Of course, you know Ariana Grande, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. I'm not I'm not that much in a box.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, okay. So uh, of course, it was kind of like the vision of how she did hers. We kind of like reflect off of that. I mean, I just I shared it not too long ago. So I'm like, yes, we are rocking this sunflower look. So I mean, I met some of the uh you you remember that Nickelodeon show, Victorious?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, oh oh yeah, yeah, okay. If that's what you're doing.
SPEAKER_00:Three justices. I met I met some of them and they do the fashion as well. Like Avan Joga, he does it in Vancouver. My passport got lost, so I couldn't make it to that show. I had to cancel that one because I was going to my plan was to go to Vancouver to do their fashion week. He was there, and of course, they like the look. And I just told him, I said, look, I know you like these, but it can be stressful to manage sometimes. I'm going to keep it just a little while longer, but it's not forever though.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. So there's generally, I would imagine that when people are um looking at you to be able to do a job or a gig, that they have something very specific in mind that they want that particular look to go with. And then sometimes it's organized and sometimes it's not. And that's the thing I find most intriguing.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Most of the time it is organized. Like the New York stuff, yes. Yeah. And uh Passport, yeah. They had to look for it. Uh and that's how I was able to book the Rise Above the Realms uh film and stuff. Like um, you may have those designers that some may be okay with this, some are not. Like uh with the Hoosers lottery, they wanted this. And we get paid residuals. Yeah, they want they wanted this look.
SPEAKER_01:How why why are residual jobs so hard to get? Like, what type of jobs are the jobs that yield a residual income?
SPEAKER_00:Okay, like the coffee shop ones, I had one of them. We got paid decent for that. We got paid decent for the Hoosers Lottery, and it if they use it again, they will pay us again. Like it go the chip the money goes up every time. They pays us, they pay us more and more every time.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:So um they they are hard to come by, but I don't know. Is this things ain't really been hard to come by for me, but most likely. I mean, I lost a lot of people who were uh I made friends with when I first started, because they like I mean, I've been dealing with that depression lately. I'm like, I didn't do nothing to these people. Uh they just seen me book jobs that they didn't book.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, like some jealousy elements going on.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that has happened, and it is so I kind of just been like, okay, that happened. Because there's another film I'm working on that starts in January in St. Louis. Uh I just auditioned for that, and they just called me back and said I had to part.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, congratulations. Well, well, what kind of what kind of role is it?
SPEAKER_00:That's uh it's called The Price You Pay. It's uh Kenny, he's a boy, he's a lost boy, he don't know what he wants. He's he's uh attracted to this girl, but also trying to please a guy, I think. Something he's doing. Uh I literally, like, I mean, we just doing uh verbs and warmups to warm-up to those characters. Because look, that's the first time I ever play a character like that. I I play an autistic boy. He, I mean, he loved his cousin until she left she left him with his narcissist mother after the baby came omniscent. And like that's a suspense thriller uh Broadway production I did. Um and I play uh a guy, he lost his dreams. He started doing he went into doing drugs and stuff because he was he started off as a painter. So uh I put the vision of him as him being a painter and stuff. I posted them pictures not too long ago. The director had me take him down because he stood us up on a movie. He's still talking about it will come out eventually. We trying to talk about after Christmas, we're gonna make announcements.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:So then it was that one, and of course, I put played lawyers, game members, and yeah, gamblers. Played them as well.
SPEAKER_01:Well, getting into the headspace of a character. Huh? What's your process for getting into the headspace of a particular character?
SPEAKER_00:Okay, my secret is I'm building this character because uh my personal secret is that like I use I use a word that would go with a sentence that a character is speaking. So I use like a verb, an action word. So like if it's something like, okay, listen, I'm not a kid. I I know what I'm doing. I'm a grown man. I would use that, I would use chide for that. Like, I'm expressing my disapproval of how you're judging me.
SPEAKER_01:I see.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so I would use uh a verb to do that. So that's how I get in that character's head to build that character, of course, because there's no perfect way to do it. Like that per the next uh actor, they could be nice about it. Me, I decided to be a jerk about it because it came across as you're judging me the wrong way.
SPEAKER_01:I see. So there's there's a lot of you approach it from a side of not necessarily like reverse engineering this grand way that a a character's thinking. It's more from an emotional intelligence perspective of what they're feeling in in that moment. Is that something that you've always done, or is that something that you have found that works better for you in recent times?
SPEAKER_00:It's it's things I found that were better for me in recent times because like when I've before I started doing it that way, I booked roles by just going in person because I'm not really good at self-tapes. I'm still learning how to do them because a lot of self-tapes, casting directors are funny about them. Like, if I may use a ring light to do a self-tape, they don't recommend that because it could be a distraction from the rings in your eyes. It could be um the lighting may not be bright enough, the background may not be solid. So um really I try to be with someone and like at like a local library or like even go to the agency. But if you don't if you get auditions that are not from them, they charge you lots of money to do them.
SPEAKER_01:But they charge you money, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:They charge me money, even if we find auditions on our own. Like, it'd be like a$60 fee.
SPEAKER_01:For the agency?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, for the agency to do an audition with you. Uh say if you go on actors.
SPEAKER_01:Is that what it is?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, like uh, I don't know, because they say that it takes them away from what they're making money from to do things and not putting money in their pocket. I mean, you see, it goes both ways. You can see both sides.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. I can it's like at one point because there are agencies that I've I've heard stories about, you know, especially uh not just randomly on the internet, but from people that I've actually talked to, that a big chunk of their income are are agencies making money off of their talent trying to pursue jobs. And those agencies are I don't want to say scams, but they're the their business model is you know what I'm trying to say. Their business model is not mainly on getting good talent and then finding those jobs. A large chunk of their business model is basically just trying to get money out of their talent without the jobs, just them trying to pursue it. And to me, I I don't understand why why some agencies go that route. Maybe they fall on like hard times or something like that, and you especially with the the COVID bubble, you know, when that happened and a lot of work didn't so like tell me about tell me about that.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, uh, yeah, so now let's talk about the scam part. I started with, I mean, I went through John Casablanca, like we were paying like$130 a month. The whole workshop was$3,000. Okay, they it wasn't really a training, everything was online. Like, I don't really think you could teach an acting class online.
SPEAKER_01:I wouldn't think so.
SPEAKER_00:Right. I mean, it there's nobody here. I'm acting off of a camera of in front of myself. We all we did was we read monologues. We didn't even read, uh, we didn't really dialogue that even give us to have a reaction, action, reaction. We didn't do any of those warmups. We just read two monologues, practiced the runway, uh walks, learned them, and that was it. So, and then we talked about makeup, then we talked about the suitcase, and then we talked about carrying that. So it was just one of those things. And then after that, I went to a so-called talent manager called Daphne Matthews of Lure Entertainment. Okay, that name right there itself should show you that there was a shady business. She was charging us like hundreds of dollars for everything to do nothing. Her workshop was online$621. On top of trying to charge$130 for a demo reel, then she just cut videos we sent her. I'm like, we're not doing nothing in those videos. Then it was a management fee which was like$400 some dollars. See, now that itself is illegal. You they can't charge us for representation.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, that's illegal. Okay. I didn't know that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so I told so I just got to the point where I got fed up. I told her I'm not paying us no more. Of course, then she goes on the rampage lashing out at everyone, at some of the other actors that I now work with, because I told them what happened and what I was going through.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_00:So, okay, she's now uh lost her business and she's been now been homeless and everything. I seen the her posting about it. She tried to come back and tried to add me back. I said, You can't come back here. You're like Yeah, you showed your true colors and you did what you did, so you can't come back here. So I rejected that request and told her no. It didn't she I hear she still reaches out asking people for money because she said she became homeless, they hacked into her business, she lost everything. But if you would but I'm gonna show you stuff about that as well. I'm gonna show you about it.
SPEAKER_01:That's a scammer.
SPEAKER_00:That is just Daphne Matthews of Lure Entertainment. She get on Facebook cussing all the time.
SPEAKER_01:A lot of people don't want to name names, and I love naming names. It's it's a guilty pleasure of mine.
SPEAKER_00:Uh you gotta yeah, gotta save the next ones. Yeah, exactly. I don't want to see no one go through that. Like we work too hard. The uh especially uh like we work too hard, and as much as I put myself through with the sleeping in my car, going to hostels and stuff. Sometimes I would drive so late to a point I pull over to a gas station and take a nap. That's how much traveling I do. And staying at hostels and stuff, because some yeah, I lived in a hostel because I was performing because it wasn't local. I said, I can't keep doing this back and forth. So I stayed in hostels, they it was for they let me do it for free. So if you really booked a job, uh like an acne job that's kind of far from you, you just go to the local hostel and they would just let you stay there. Give them the understanding of what's going on. They get they have my clear understanding, so they just let me stay there. Okay, they gave me free meals, everything.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, because a lot actors go through hell in order to be able to try to make their their career work. They do a lot of different odd jobs, a lot of different roles, and especially in the beginning, roles that you don't even necessarily want to take. But you know, it's better to be a practicing actor than than to try to be a really picky one. I think that's something actually that I took away from uh oh, what's his name?
SPEAKER_00:I mean, I was seriously, I was happy and blessed to get the roles I wanted because the roles I wanted, I literally got them, even though one of them wasn't exactly but it paid, but it the pain matched up to it. And it was okay, I was presenting healthcare, I was presenting a school, I was presenting education. Yeah, I'll show you more pictures of that.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, uh I'm gonna eventually make uh and post it on Facebook and make on the process of where it started to where it's at. Of course, I've been I heard back from New York. They liked, well, look, they want me to come out in February. And I said, yeah, I'll come. They booked me for their runway out there.
SPEAKER_01:What what type of roles have have you said no to? Because I I know it's it's it's it's a very difficult thing to turn down work, but you know, I'm sure you've learned lessons along the way, and I'm sure you've developed a sense of what's legitimate and what's not by now. So tell me about that.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, what I've said no to, uh, okay, like that role I was telling you about, that's all the way out in uh Alsbury, Kentucky. I had to say no to that one because it they wasn't paying enough for it to be worth it for the wear and tear. And the other one I said no to, it was it was one in Chicago. I mean, I want I wanted it, but I didn't have my plan in order for it to happen that fast. They wanted me to come out that Saturday. Because they said, okay, you could play the king, you could play uh the shepherd, you could play the angel. They were paying for it, and I had to say, uh I wasn't ready for that big marketing just yet. I said, let me get more under my belt, get used to the process before I say yes to that. But my cousin died, so I'm not I no longer have a house out here. I can't, he supported my career to the full the full of tea. He wanted me to come out there to do it. He would let me use his house. But then he died from a heart attack um two years ago. So that kind of what shattered my housing for Chicago.
SPEAKER_01:I see. Okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So that's why it's kind of hard to. I mean, we had this Christmas coming up, but they would I was going to do a Broadway zombie and a Broadway uh regular person. I couldn't pursue that one because I booked the film in St. Louis.
SPEAKER_01:I see.
SPEAKER_00:So, and I'm trying to do more of film, and because I'm hearing from these bigger marketings, they want to take bring me out for film because they like everything. They like my portfolio, they see my reels.
SPEAKER_01:What what is what is the P what is the project that you would say that you're most proud of when you're going to introduce yourself as an actor, not necess not necessarily a model, but there's a role that you're going for and they want to see your resume. And what project would you point to as a good example of your work?
SPEAKER_00:Um, I would definitely say, I mean, I worked hard on Rise of the Realms, but it's not out. I'll definitely say that's one of them, and I would go back to Pray for the Wicked. It would be two of them, those two.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:And a Salem, because did I tell you about that movie? They these are the people.
SPEAKER_01:I think you briefly mentioned it. Yeah. And tell me when you go into it, tell me about the roles that what the roles were that you played in them.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, I played a homeless guy in that one, but they they made them homeless people dirty, which I didn't, but it all made sense because they had me doing things on the set to where I could stand out. Because even though they couldn't give me speaking lines because that's a SAG movie and they have everything in their certain order, like they couldn't just run it as an unprofessional organization. But they wanted to, they wanted to give me more things, but they gave me to where I could run around, interact with the main characters and stuff. They got nervous of my character. These character, these people came from Hollywood. They worked on, you know, the series that they come out that that is now coming out, uh, the monster series. And you got Dahmer, Eddie Gane, then you have another one that came out.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know what you're talking about. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, uh, they were the ones I was working with on that movie. And uh, but yeah, we hung out after Seth. We talked about our careers a little bit more. So I was able to interact with them and actually socialize with them. Yeah, and got they follow me now on Instagram, and I'm able to network with them. So they they like what I did, they like the performance. So uh I will look to that one as well because uh even though I didn't have lines, they liked what I did. They said, I like the idea you did this. They didn't even tell me, they just like the idea that I was able to act without words. And they was very impressed, they was impressed with this, so I will look at that one as well.
SPEAKER_01:One of the best things uh an actor an actor can learn to do is to be able to maintain, not just establish, but maintain presence on screen when even when they have no dialogue. And this is something that even a lot of actors who do get dialogue also have to work on. Um you don't have you gotta figure out what I do with my hands, where am I looking? You know, what's my attitude during that thing? It's a very implicit performance.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, like as a okay, uh as a Broadway actor, like, okay, so for me to be noticed on stage, like, okay, we can't just do this. We can't uh we can't just do this, like, because you know how the camera would catch us every day.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Like, we literally have to turn and look that way, but we can't, we gotta keep it to where they see us. And with our emotions, we gotta show it. Like, we gotta move our hands, we gotta do it. Like, versus on film, you can tell what somebody's thinking about just looking in their eyes. Okay, but on uh as a brown background actor, uh with with no lines, uh they could be seen like as like doing like something small, like just sneaking in to where you be caught. Like you could just sneak in like behind someone. That's kind of what I did. I kind of like just sneaked in like behind them and they saw me and they got afraid. And they was like, oh, like they were surprised about what I brought because they said be they literally let us be creative. So I played the homeless guy and I made him drunk, and I made him to where he was terrorizing everyone. So he was so he caught what I did. He didn't know I was. Gonna do it. So I just walked up to these other people. I said, Oh, y'all got this, y'all got that. So he let me speak a little.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:So but I showed him my with my emotions how I would just walk around like just out in the days.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I would imagine, especially in theater, though, there's there's actors who don't get lines that end up taking that that thing that you're talking about too far. You know, they try to give themselves dialogue and then then they end up getting a thrashing by the by the director, you know. So there's like a fine line that you gotta walk when you're asserting yourself, but not too much to where you're actually impeding or intruding on what actually is supposed to be going on.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. Uh so about that, it's uh because with theater, like it's all about uh professionalism and and present yeah present presentations and strict, so I would go based off of what the the direct the director says. Um so if they say like um, for example, what what I did with Houston, like because he was autistic, like I was able to do the things with the hands. So she she was so for rehearsals, we was able to go through this. So he was he was drunk and stuff, so I did this with his hands. So he she was because he was nervous, he was scared that they was gonna come after him and kill him. So the the family, uh yeah, the Marlins family, he was he ran, so he had to run out and he had to run from Janine because he was afraid they was coming for him. So I had to give him a like a jittery and I had to be drunk with it too. So it's like Nene Nene, I can't talk about this. I'm scared. Like it's kind of like that. So it's just that I really I relax my mind and just flow right into it.
SPEAKER_01:How does both good and bad chemistry between actors in a scene affect performances for you?
SPEAKER_00:Okay, good chemistry. The good chemistry, like we do when it comes to the good chemistry, um I would say that how do I put this? The good chemistry, it would be yes, so it'd be that re you ru your scene partner is revolving around them and and moving with the emotion that they have, and you trying to take it to a different level. So I would think that like at the same time, I'm trying to calm her down along with she now, she's trying to calm me down. So I would think that part would be that now with the bad chemistry, I would think that that if you drop and you kind of get lost in your place, because sometimes that do happen. But yeah, so like if you get lost in your place, it would kind of be like make a sound, like make a sound, find your place, uh move something that would get your mind back. So it would put so like really with the bad chemistry, so I just really say just keep going until the flow gets back going.
SPEAKER_01:Because just beat the dead horse. You gotta like it. Yeah, just beat the dead horse do it until it has to be. Yeah. Yeah. When um since you've been doing modeling as of recently compared to your experiences with theater as well as film, have now that those experiences have been broadened a little bit, how how do you conceptualize yourself as an artist when it comes to approaching things professionally? Because you don't always get to do necessarily exactly the thing you want to do or that the thing that you're passionate about, but you still gotta bring yourself to whatever it is that you're doing. How have you learned to be able to approach your work in a way not just that's professional, but also in a way that is something that you can legitimately present yourself as, even if it's not something the thing that you're most passionate about?
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so it yes, I've gotten some recent roles that I'm not really passionate about, but this is how I bring myself to that. Like interact with the casting director because you never know where it may go later. So you could eventually get that, get what you're passionate about, even though it may not start off that way, because a lot of times it don't, because this is very competitive and it's very hard to do, and it is and it's a constant uh fight for it. It's a constant thing that we're just trying to achieve. And we just sometimes we get really frustrated when we audition for things that don't that we really want, that we think is a great fit. That we spend hours on these auditions, we spend constantly trying to work around their schedule. Then it turns into uh, okay, now I booked something, but it's not my favorite. So how do I do this? I'm going to do the work because it's paying me and I got to go out of my way. So I'm going to interact with the casting director and the other actors and show myself that I'm I'm excited to be here. I'm happy to do this and build relationships with them. I think that's the main part because building that relationship with people that on projects you're not comfortable with, you're not, that's not your favorite. It will that will really bring the chemistry to life.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Just relaxing your mind and just flowing into the moment. Like I'm not gonna think about it. Uh, I'm just gonna do the work, get paid. It ends there, but I would like to have a good relationship with those I work with because when future things come, they could have something I do like. It could have something this could get me to where to the films I really want to do. But yes, I think it has because if I'm hearing back from New York from for both.
SPEAKER_01:So you you would say that the key to it is you just gotta be you have to maintain optimism that something is going to work out.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, you just gotta keep believing that it will work out, even though it may not seem like it at first. Because back in back last February, I was because I was getting so many jobs left and right, and I was tired all the time. So I'm like, okay, it's a big break gonna happen after this. I'm constantly like, I'm praying every week, will it happen? I'm getting stuff, uh, even though it some stuff was unpaid, but a lot of stuff was paid. You know what I'm saying? But I'm constantly fighting, I'm constantly going, I'm constantly, I'm at the arcades doing shoot shoots with photographers. I'm in the woods in the cold doing photography. Now I'm doing a commercial uh at this big stadium in uh at this big stadium in Indiana. Then yes, I go to Atlanta to do a film. They pay me for it. But look, I almost had my own TV show because they seen my acting. It got canceled because of budgeting. I haven't heard from her yet. But that was just a letdown uh as well, because the whole point of me going down there was because they said.
SPEAKER_01:Can you say what network that was with?
SPEAKER_00:Can I say that? Uh I have to send it to you. It's in my phone somewhere. This was back in this dang, what what month was it? Yeah, it was back in June.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:I went down there, they said, uh, hey, we getting a TV show started. Do you want to be one of the characters? They said I will reach out to you in July and give you the your character and your pay rate. It got canceled due to budgeting, and that was going to be a SAG TV show with high pay.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, well. I was a little, I wouldn't say it was a little suspicious. And then you said um it was sag related. And I'm like, oh, okay. That's oh no, I'm not doing that. I mean, it's a one-time thing if you do a movie, you know, and then you're getting paid for a little bit of a time, but if you're having this TV show where you're getting paid very, very frequently, that's kind of the dream for an actor. If you're not being able to get those high-generating, you know, high Hollywood paying jobs.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So uh it was going to start in Atlanta, yes, and then they I guess they have stuff in Los Angeles that will take place. Uh I did hear back from some people in Los Angeles. He wants to meet with me sometime in January. Uh, and I know that only people that get this stuff is like really have to be big out there and really have their SAG license. Like, uh, I'm trusting the process, it gives me a lot of anxiety at times, and especially with losing friends that you thought was supportive. Like, I was talking to another friend about the film I did yesterday. He's like, he said, okay, I'm getting really annoyed. I didn't hear about this. I'm like, it wasn't my movie. I was going directing this. I I just I just showed the footage that, I mean, I just showed the pictures we took onset. And so I haven't heard back in front of him since he stopped answering my messages and everything. Hope I'm not blocked though, because some of them have done that too.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So I'm like, I know it it has been immediate success. Uh gives me anxiety because of course it has to slow down since it happened last November. Because I just keep the process going and just keep it one one week it'll be filmed, one week it'll be a commercial, and another week it'll be uh high fashion, which high fashion is about to pick up in New York big time. They sent me all the information, and they said they will send me the rest of everything, the accommodations when it gets a little closer.
SPEAKER_01:When when you're moving from project to project, do you do you have to keep in mind that you can't carry the stress over from one project to the project? Do you deliberately try to decompress between if you have the time and what what do you do in order to help with that?
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so this is what I do. So, okay, say if I just got off from doing a film, that film in St. Louis. Okay, when I go to New York, I have different, I will have different expectations. I say, okay, so that that's done and over with. So I just take a breather, I just keep breathing, and then I go there. I don't think, technically honest, I seem to forget about it unless it's constantly brought up. But I may forget, and then I go right into the next project. I don't know how that happens. I forget that I was there. Like, I'm like, I was there, I remember being there, but then it just then I forget about it when I go to another project. I don't know what it is, I don't know how it happens. That for some reason that just comes natural.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, I know you probably think I'm crazy. Like, uh no, I talked to one guy, he's just like, dude, I just smoke a big blunt. It's not healthy, I get it, but at the end of the day, like he just like I do my best just to forget it and move on to the next one because you know, his you know, people deal with stress in in different ways. So that's something that I always find curious about how because stress builds up in the body, stress builds up in the body, and it carries with you whether you're psychologically aware of it or not. And so a lot of people try to physically release it, you know, in their own ways.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, about that, yeah. So I met a friend, I met a couple friends on the commercial modeling gig. So I talked to them constantly, and I still talk to them uh because at the time we was uh when we all met up, we all talked about how it was hard to book this, it was hard to book that. I couldn't relate at the time because I'm like, well, I'm just now getting started and I've gotten a lot of yeses versus even getting no, uh getting told no at the time.
SPEAKER_01:And then like about great, good for you, man.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, but I didn't I didn't break though, I didn't even talk about it. I just kind of kept quiet. I said, Yeah, I hear back from the I heard back from some, but I was happy to get that hand modeling job that I was dying to get. And I said, But she finally gave me that job and it paid really good. So I kind of just kept quiet on that conversation. But yeah, there has been things I haven't heard back from. Uh I mean, just mainly that that ignorant uh producer around here, but he tr he's that 1920 uh film. Like he he strict with everybody. Like you just don't have to look, you just you just forget about it.
SPEAKER_01:What has been the talk behind the uh the iron curtain of talent, if you will, about AI? Have you uh does that ever pop up every now and then? Yeah, think about like hand modeling. That I mean like this that seems like that would be something that could that could that basically would vanish overnight if it hasn't already.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, uh, if it hasn't already, but they still casting for it. So I just got submitted to one on backstage. So AI. Okay, we are facing things that most other actors do have to face. Okay, when it comes, but it's highly unlikely to replace uh real human actors because a violation of copyrights, and when it comes to SAG guild films, they have it in their contract, no fake acting, no fake, no fake uh things. They said they want real real work. So when it comes to these non-union jobs, I really think that AI will has this advantage, but I do think that it could have a disadvantage as well, because he can't really interpret real human feelings.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Well the something such as Sean Aston is currently the what what is it, the president of the uh the SAG Afra um guild. And funny enough, his mother back in the day was also, I think she served one term as uh as the president. And I I recently listened to an interview with um I forget what channel or news station it was with, but he uh he's like he's been fighting, he said he's been fighting like hell to be able to protect, and they said that they've made critical progress in terms of what they're putting in their contracts to be able to prevent their likeness being used, as well as being able to ensure that them being there in person is critical and essential for being able to hire a SAG after. Have you found any recent changes in the wording of contracts or what how what what has been your interaction with that?
SPEAKER_00:Okay, uh when it came to like no, I haven't done any recent changes. I haven't uh had uh had that just yet. But um I don't uh I don't know will it happen? That could be a New York thing. Uh I don't know. But my thing is, I'm not really trying to put all my eggs in one basket. I'm just trying to explore because we may be facing things that other actors didn't have to face. But they also say uh don't let it stop you, uh keep it going, because it's unlikely that it will happen all the way. But you said that he he's still fighting for it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, no, uh he's he said that especially there's been I don't remember exactly what he said, but he communicated the idea that since the uh the writers and the actors guild strikes, I think it was in 21 or 22, like it was uh 23. It was 23. It was twenty three, oh, even more recent that he implied that significant progress has been made in that regard. So I wasn't I was just curious if there was something that had trickled down on the back end when it came to you being aware of what contractually has changed or has been amended for actors to be able to maintain their um integrity as artists when it comes to like with the changes and stuff, like and with that with the strike and stuff, I I do think that's a that made a big progress because we was waiting for it to get off because it was hard to find work without it.
SPEAKER_00:But at the same time, I was dealing with Daphne Matthews. So um that's where that scamming was coming from, her charging all that money.
SPEAKER_01:Yep.
SPEAKER_00:I was able to break free from her and then I started booking more jobs. I was doing student films as well. Have I mentioned that?
SPEAKER_01:Uh, not yet, no, but I think you uh you did recall it in our our previous chats.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I've done student films as well along with stage. Okay, so just that building that up to that potential and networking.
SPEAKER_01:So, what would be your advice to actors trying to break into the industry now? Because right now a lot of things are kind of up in the air, and there's a lot of people that are just wondering where to get started because, like you said, you know, with your experiences, there are people who will scam you. You don't know whether or not they're legitimate. What would be your advice to to newbies when it comes to avoiding those red flags that you've encountered in the past?
SPEAKER_00:Okay, my best advice is would be I get I got a lot of them. Number one is to like literally look for people who are actually doing doing this, like film directors. I know that's kind of hard because you don't know how to look at first, especially living in Cincinnati, because it's not it's not really talked about because it's not really happening here. I mean, it's very slow around here. So I would think that like, yes, first seek an agent and stuff. Like figure out who go look look at reviews of the places first. And if you can read, if is it the same amount of bad reviews as long as good reviews? Because you know, sometimes I've seen people go on her go on her page and lie and say that this is the best person to work with, go, this is the best thing that happened. Yeah, so but they go on her page and lie just because she literally was DMing people saying, Can you go write a review on my uh on my wall? Like basically asking them. Like, if you if if people really talked about how they really felt and what it and what they really experienced to her, it it wouldn't be good.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:There's BBB pages. Yes, look for those two. The BBB page. What's that? BBB page. Uh the the bureau. Um the hey the one second.
SPEAKER_01:Look it up.
SPEAKER_00:Um I I just forgot that. Yeah, better be better business bureau.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, better business bureau. Okay. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so look at those as well. And along with going to looking on the looking On the website and looking at their stars and ratings, also really try to look and call them, call them and ask them what the expectations are because a lot of times they won't say. They will be quick in the red flag, and another red flag, ignore, do not be quick to sign a contract. Like if somebody quick to offer a contract, red flag. Somebody constantly breaking on their business and have nothing to show for it, red flag. With someone uh bashing other people just to make themselves look good, red flag. I dealt with photographers like that, and I dealt with the that talent manager that was like that. And the thing is, they don't have re-c re-accumplate that are coming back to them. Like it's a green card when you have clients that come back. But it's a red flag when you work with someone and you never see them again. And it's also a red flag when they brag on their business. Okay, but I haven't seen no one famous or no one who made it big come through there.
SPEAKER_01:There's a lot of people who try to inflate their own reputation.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, inflate their own reputation. Saying things like, I could get you booked for these Atlanta shows, I could get you booked in Los Angeles. When people talk like that, listen, believe in when you see it. Don't sign no contract, have no show you proof. The first thing I will say is I don't believe you. I need to see something.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Well go ahead. So um those are the things to those are the things to not ignore. Just because somebody's a sooth talker and stuff and a quick fast talker, like really actually listen to what they're saying and don't believe anything they tell you until you actually see it for yourself.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. Wise words from Mario.
SPEAKER_00:I've been through it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I I mean I didn't expect honestly to hear how many horror stories that you've had. I mean, I've heard horror stories before, and uh I there was actually one time uh at the event that I met you at um that I ran into you at I had an extended conversation with uh Patrick Johnson about a uh certain director slash producer that is a bit notorious in the Columbus and Cincinnati area, I guess. I don't know. But I don't think anything would probably be that story that I heard. But for you, it seems like a lot of the red flags were kind of like death by a thousand cuts, essentially. A lot of little and those things, if you don't pluck them early enough, could ruin not not necessarily ruin your career, but it could ruin your passion for pursuing what you love to do.
SPEAKER_00:Uh it almost did. Like, I literally got to the point where I just got annoyed every time she would reach out. Like, she would constantly reach out, constantly asking for money. Then she kept moving the due dates on when it was due, kept moving it to to it being closer, and I just got to a point where I say, listen, I'm done with this. I I'm not paying this anymore. So the last the last day, like this was February of last year, and she just then she started bragging on, oh, I got I did this, I cut an audition, I cut that. Look, you're not supposed to charge money to even submit an audition. If an agent is charging you money to submit an audition, that's a red flag and to run. If a manager is at is doing that because they're supposed to be networking and building you up and getting you in front of those people. We didn't have no meetings, we didn't have anything. All we kept, all she kept doing is meeting with us about and sending us scripts to run lines. We sent her videos, she'll watch them sometimes, and then we ask her about them. She has an attitude. It just said like she was just making excuses that she was being shady. And somebody and one of her other clients reached out to me and said, Um, do you think we really paying? We're paying her bills. We're not seeing nothing for this money. And somebody else wrote a beat uh yeah, a better uh business bureau page about her as well, saying the same thing. She was charging them more, like$442 every two weeks.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, geez.
SPEAKER_00:And she literally brought that page and said how many clients does she have?
SPEAKER_01:It sounds like this one was raking it in.
SPEAKER_00:Uh, she hit when I first thought about her, she's had about 20. Okay, now she don't have any because uh that Carmel came out of the city.
SPEAKER_01:She saved some of that scam money because she's not getting it anymore.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so her business has been shut down and she's now working at she said she's now at a uh white castles in Cubington, she's homeless and stuff. But look, when you do people wrong and stuff, it's hard to feel sorry for you.
SPEAKER_01:Like I mean, Karma's a bitch.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, but she I I told I knew it. I said I knew it was gonna come back on her. Like now she's homeless, she can't, she has nothing. She lost everything because you didn't get that by your hands, you stole from your clients. And then she just dropped you on the spot because you say you're not paying anymore. She said, okay, I'm done. Your job. Then she blocked you on social media. Did she come back with some nasty email talking trash about you, threatening to sue you for the contract? Look, you're gonna be sued for this contract because you did what you're doing is unfair practices. And the skill in the screen guild, I even contacted them and told them what happened. And they said that was a red flag and that was not of us, and that was not they said we're gonna mark that down so she don't come up.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. Well, I mean it sounds like it sounds like the uh what's the saying? The chickens had come home to roost, as it were.
SPEAKER_00:Haven't heard that one before, but yeah, it sounds good.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's it's it's a Midwest thing. You know, we've got a lot of cornfields, so we make a lot of references to you know plants, animals, and farms. That's what we've got here. Would you also post this video?
SPEAKER_00:Say what? Would you also post this video?
SPEAKER_01:Uh this video? Uh yeah, I I post it on YouTube.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Can't wait to see it. Yeah, this one I it should probably I think this one is set to come out next week. That's what probably what it is. But Mario, um, I just want to say thanks for coming on. It was great getting to know you and to talk to you and hear your horror stories as well as what you're exactly your passion about. The horror stories, those those those were fun. Those I mean they're not fun for you, obviously, but they're fun for me to listen to because I didn't have to go through it, you know. Right. Do you have any final thoughts you want to leave with the audience?
SPEAKER_00:Uh, final thoughts is don't give up on your dreams, don't wait for things to come to you. If you're passionate about it, go out there and get it.
SPEAKER_01:Well said. Thanks again.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. Anytime, brother.