Working for a Casting Agency Taught me This #65 Actress Katie Kinman

A single detour can change everything. When actress Katie Kinman walked into a new studio in Lexington, a chance encounter with a former agent leading to her role in 2025's Dead Man’s Wire and her red carpet moment in Venice.

In this episode, Katie pulls back the curtain on how casting actually evaluates auditions—why bold, specific choices rise above safe reads. We break down the hidden mechanics of the industry: how approvals move through producers, why the script is the foundation of everything.

Transcript

Opening And Guest Intro

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Focal Point Podcast. I'm your host, Tony Riggs. Here I take a deep dive into my personal interests of the hidden craftsmanship, philosophies, and passions behind society's talent. If you're intrigued by artistic nuance, please subscribe and follow on my YouTube channel, Spotify, and BuzzSprout. With that being said, let me introduce you to today's guests. Yeah, how I normally just do this is that I'll just start recording and then I'll pick it up at a certain point where we'll end up going. Because there's been a few times where I've I've started recording and then they start talking about things that I know they don't want to be out there. And then I'm like, and then I try to ease into the but they don't want they gotta finish their story, you know, and I'm a cur and I'm a courteous person, so I just let them go, and then like 25 minutes later, that's I'm like, I gotta cut all that time off now.

SPEAKER_02 0:56

And so start recording. Yeah, you don't say certain things.

SPEAKER_00 1:05

I don't I don't have like blackmail level stuff, it's just more like uncomfortable cringe. So it's it's good. It would be great for social media if I really wanted to be that guy. That boy, though. I'm not gonna be that guy, you know. No.

SPEAKER_02 1:19

That's nice of you.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

Well, we are recording, so Katie, it's nice to meet you.

SPEAKER_02 1:24

Yes, nice to meet you too.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

Um just to start off, why don't you well, because I was, you know, when I was doing my research, normally like if if somebody who does acting is usually just somebody who just does acting, but you do a number of different things. So I'm gonna go ahead and just give you the space. You know, take the floor for a second and just introduce yourself exactly how you want to describe what you do and how you got into it.

SPEAKER_02 1:49

Cool, yeah. So hi, I'm Katie Kinron. Um, I am an actress, always first. Um, I'm also an assistant casting director and a casting director. And I do a bunch of other stuff like modeling and dancing, and in what is it? Middle school and high school, I played the cello for seven years. That's a cool fact, but I haven't picked it up since.

SPEAKER_00 2:14

Um why'd you drop that? That seems like a really good skill to keep up with.

SPEAKER_02 2:17

I know, right? But uh no, it just it got I didn't like to practice enough. I just like to be good at certain things.

SPEAKER_00 2:25

It was too much work.

SPEAKER_02 2:27

Yeah, exactly. I thought I'd spin my put my what's it called, put a bunch of apples in a a few less baskets.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

Fair enough.

SPEAKER_02 2:37

Yeah, yeah.

Katie’s Multi-Hyphenate Background

SPEAKER_00 2:38

So um you have like seven on your IMDB, you have seven upcoming productions where you're listed as like a casting assistant. Can you tell me a little bit about all the the work that goes into that?

SPEAKER_02 2:51

Yeah, absolutely. So, first off, I totally just fell into the world of casting. Not by any, I didn't have I didn't want to be a casting director. I didn't think I was going to be a casting director, but I absolutely freaking love it. So, long story short, my old agent, Kathy Campbell, sold her agency to Chad and then became a casting director. And um, I was in uh not Louisville, I was in Lexington of all places. My hometown is Louisville, Kentucky.

SPEAKER_00 3:24

Is it Louisville or Louisville?

SPEAKER_02 3:27

Louisville. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:29

All right. Um I've met some people from Louisville and they're like, and then I'm I say it incorrectly, and I know how it's pronounced, but it's just my habit of how I read it, and then just I mean it's it's probably act it's supposed to be Louis, Louisville.

SPEAKER_02 3:45

I don't actually even know what the actual correct pronunciation of that word is.

SPEAKER_01 3:51

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 3:51

You're the local, you tell me.

SPEAKER_02 3:54

Louisville.

SPEAKER_00 3:55

Lowell. Okay, we'll roll with that then.

SPEAKER_02 3:58

Yes. Uh, but Kathy Campbell, um, yeah, I was in Lexington because I just wanted to go check out the new Lex Studios. It sounded cool. And happened to run into her. She happened to need help because her assistant was on leave, and from there we just I was thrown into the fire headfirst. But it's been an adventure. Yeah, we've done, I think we counted I don't want to say the wrong number, but I think it was around 17 last year.

SPEAKER_00 4:29

17 productions that we casted, whether it's so who goes to hire you guys to be able to cast for their film?

Falling Into Casting

SPEAKER_02 4:36

Who goes to oh, it's basically the line producer. So they're the ones that there's a lot of producers, but the line producers are the ones that go out and find the director and or no, sometimes the director comes from the man from the main producer, and I don't know, it's a long time.

SPEAKER_00 4:56

That's always been the aggravating thing about the film industry, is that like people will just do different jobs with different names, and then you'll go to you try to get some sort of consistency and continuity going between the names of the and it's never exactly the same.

SPEAKER_02 5:11

No, no, not until you get into like the crew part of it all.

unknown 5:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:15

But producers and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02 5:17

There's I don't even I think they're trying to tighten it up and define what producers are, what an executive producer, what a line producer, what the by producer. It's a mind-bogger.

SPEAKER_00 5:28

A buy producer? I that's the first I've heard of that one.

SPEAKER_02 5:31

It's like the person that is titled is credited, produced by Blink.

SPEAKER_00 5:37

Oh, so the king. The king of producers. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 5:41

Alright.

SPEAKER_00 5:44

Well, how how so how long over what course of time were those 17 productions roughly?

SPEAKER_02 5:51

Um, I think we did it, I think that was just in like a span of one year.

SPEAKER_00 5:57

One year.

SPEAKER_02 5:59

Yes. Really? Crazy. It was insane. It was either one year or it was like a year and a half. I've only been with her since 2024?

unknown 6:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:13

How long have they been open?

SPEAKER_00 6:15

How long has this business been open?

SPEAKER_02 6:16

She's been doing this, I mean, since I think she said 2016. I could be totally wrong about that, though. Um, but she's been doing she's been in the Louisville area doing this sort of thing for years. She's really good at it.

SPEAKER_00 6:33

No, was it this casting agency that you were a part of that did the casting for Dead Man's Wire that was filmed locally in Louisville?

SPEAKER_02 6:40

Yeah, yes, I am. Yes, that that is that is her. It is her and I.

SPEAKER_00 6:44

And then they managed to somehow, well, you gotta know you audition for it, obviously, but they you know they snuck one of their the their own people into the film.

SPEAKER_02 6:51

No, yeah. Okay, so that's a fun story. So originally, Gus was Gus Fancy at the director. He was like, Hey, I want to see what kind of people you have.

SPEAKER_00 7:01

And he wants to browse the goods.

SPEAKER_02 7:04

Exactly. And so, of course I'm gonna put myself in the mix. He was just like, I don't know, have him tell a story or something, I don't know. And and so I put it in there, and then we got a bunch of other folks that are strong in the area that love to be in movies, and sent them his way, and then he went through and liked a couple things, a couple videos, happened to like mine, and I was like, that's interesting. Um, and then uh it was after we were in the middle of production, towards the end, that they all the producers like because I was on set helping to background, making sure they are where they need to go, and it's just easier to work there sometimes. And so all the producers were looking at me one day. I was very worried, I was concerned.

SPEAKER_00 7:55

I was like, It was not a good look, apparently, because you miss you didn't interpret it that way.

SPEAKER_02 8:00

No, and then they finally one of them comes up to me and he's like, Hey, um, Gus thinks he wants you to be the wife. And I was like, Okay. Kathy was originally hoping to get this other um actor in town to be that role, totally different.

SPEAKER_00 8:18

I mean, I'm very I'm young, I'm young, but we were looking at like 40-year-old women, and yeah, to play the opposite, the wife of Montgomery, who's you know, the the Stranger Things actor that is uh has a principal role in the film.

SPEAKER_02 8:33

Indeed. Yes, it is about him and Bill Skarsgard plays the other guy. Bill Skarsgard's character takes Daker Montgomery's character hostage. And I'm the wife.

SPEAKER_00 8:45

It's it's a very classic indie take, but it's a true story, actually.

SPEAKER_02 8:48

It is, it's fascinating. And in the movie itself, in the cut, the final cut, we use a lot of actual real footage of real newscasters, and uh I don't know, it's really cool how they fit it all in. It's a neat movie.

SPEAKER_00 9:04

It's it it it did look that way. I haven't I I looked at some of your work, but I didn't get to actually watching that one because when I saw that one, I'm like, oh shoot, I should have watched this beforehand. Like, oh crap. All right, great.

SPEAKER_04 9:14

That's okay.

SPEAKER_00 9:15

All right, I'll just I'll ask her about it. But did you get it to meet any how how many days was your were your filming?

SPEAKER_02 9:22

Um, I think um because Al Pacino, I think, showed up for just one day.

SPEAKER_00 9:27

He has like all he got all of his filming done like really quickly.

SPEAKER_02 9:29

Yes. Funny enough, he was in a film that shot in Louisville in the same like time in January, the winter time. So he refused to come back because he knows it is so cold. So we did his day in LA, and then the uh actual shooting days, I think was about 25, 23 to 25. So it all happens very, very fast.

SPEAKER_00 9:56

That's a fairly quick production, too.

SPEAKER_02 9:58

Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:00

Have you noticed uh even just before joining your casting agency, uh business picking up locally of outside of people coming outside to take advantage of like the Midwest tax credits that a lot of these states have, like including Ohio?

SPEAKER_02 10:14

Yes, absolutely, yes. There's I mean, that's the only reason that production came to Louisville is because it has a good tax incentive. And yeah, and another another movie that I just finished up casting myself was in Arkansas, and they have an interesting tax incentive as well. So random.

Year Of 17 Productions

SPEAKER_00 10:35

So we have the because you know we have there's the max at ma it's a mass exodus kind of in name. It's it's almost it's almost technically qualified as a mass exodus of the industry going out of Hollywood right now. And a lot of them are coming over. Well, most of it's going to Austin and Atlanta, but the rest of the Midwest states, like Ohio, Tennessee, Kentucky, you know, all the ones north of the Mason-Dixon line. We uh we're getting a little of this trickle trickle trickle-down effect, because Ohio, you know, that's where they filmed a lot of Superman, the last Superman film. And I live 30 minutes from where they filmed uh at the train station, which is supposed to be like the Justice League Center or whatever. And I'm like, I've been in there.

SPEAKER_01 11:18

It's really cool. I know, right? You saw it? You saw the movie?

SPEAKER_00 11:21

Yeah, I did I did see the movie, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:22

It was awesome.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

Yeah, no, I was like And they shot it really, really well too. It's uh like I was like, oh okay, they did it good.

SPEAKER_01 11:28

Oh, they made it look so good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:33

Not even hidden treasures, just treasures that nobody talks about because Exactly. Yeah, it's I agree. What what about Louisville? Have you s have you noticed not just business coming to Louisville, but also the art scene growing in general?

SPEAKER_02 11:46

I think so. Yeah, yeah. I'm so I'm spending most of my time in New York these days, but I mean, yes, they've the sound stage that's happening is being built or is close to being done. I don't actually know. But and then a new jazz club just opened up. I heard from my sister today, actually. Um that sounds lovely. Yeah, yeah. I think the art is growing.

SPEAKER_00 12:12

So you when did you move to New New York? And is that related to working with the casting agency?

SPEAKER_02 12:18

Um, no, it's not. It's so I came up here for a job and um happened to reach out to one of the people that I met on Dead Man's Wire.

SPEAKER_04 12:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 12:29

And so I was like, yeah, let's grab, let's get some, I don't know, coffee or dinner or whatever. So we ended up grabbing dinner, hit it off. Turns out he's my partner, my boyfriend. And um yeah, so that was very convenient. And I just kept getting jobs up here. So when I the first time I got a job up here, I I reached out and yeah, that's kind of how it happened.

SPEAKER_00 12:53

But it sounds like you killed two birds with one stone.

SPEAKER_02 12:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 12:57

Quite, quite.

SPEAKER_02 12:58

And I have a lot of friends up here, which is also very nice and convenient, and I crash on mini couches a lot and when I'm not when I'm here.

SPEAKER_00 13:08

There's a real culture of artists sharing strangers' couches that I've noticed since talking to them and starting the show.

Dead Man’s Wire: Getting The Role

SPEAKER_02 13:14

Oh, absolutely. Especially because movies are being shot all over the place. I basically have, I know in my phone somewhere, there's someone I can find that probably lives in every city.

SPEAKER_00 13:26

So far, I haven't heard a horror horror story yet either, which it sounds like that would be that's ripe, that's ripe indie movie material right there. Crap like cow scratching.

SPEAKER_02 13:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 13:35

Honestly, somebody should probably write a script for that. That sounds like a good idea.

SPEAKER_02 13:38

That's a neat idea, actually. Oh my god. Good job. Are you a good writer?

SPEAKER_00 13:42

I well, I'm a writer, yeah, but so that's how that came about. Now when uh you went to Venice for that's where they premiered it, right?

SPEAKER_02 13:55

Yes. So it premiered.

SPEAKER_00 13:56

You walked a red carpet, and I I I'm just curious, even as somebody who's trained as a model, um, does acting, when you start walking, are you still paranoid about tripping and falling in front of all those cameras?

SPEAKER_01 14:09

No, not at all. Oh my gosh, that's funny though. That's a funny question.

SPEAKER_00 14:15

Well, I was watching your like your clip that you had on your website of you know that of your snippet of walking down the red carpet, and I'm like, I wonder how often people are paranoid about tripping, and that's why they walk so slow.

SPEAKER_02 14:28

Literally, no, so there's about a million executive producers, investors on the film, and they all walked straight through. And I think a couple of them were thinking about it, but no, there's just so much, there's so much to look at, and there's it's sounds, and then they'll start calling your name, and it's just ah-so it's it's impossible to think about tripping, I don't know, in my mind.

SPEAKER_00 14:54

Now you were on another movie in 2023, uh, Box of Spiders or something like that. Or I think it was originally titled Forbidden Fruits, and then they changed it. Because I I watched the trailer and it was called Forbidden Fruits, and then on ID on IMDB, it was a box full of spiders. Uh yes. So how was going from that level of film of film to Deadman's Wire in terms of the production and the scale and the interaction with the the crew?

SPEAKER_02 15:22

Crazy. I mean, going from so it was a solid two-person, mostly a two-person crew is what I shot with with Boxville Spiders. Awesome filmmakers. They're super cool and super crazy. I wouldn't have guessed that.

SPEAKER_00 15:34

The cinematography looked pretty tight.

SPEAKER_02 15:37

Yeah, yeah. I know, right? And so, um, yeah, no, going from that to a crew of I don't even know. It's usually like 50 or something, and a crazy director, and and then in the midst of that, I shot a little Hallmark movie and that was kind of smaller, and then I shot uh one called Oscar Shaw that just came out. Um and that was I think one step down in the sag. It was a a low, I don't actually know what budget it was, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

Okay. At what point uh for as an actress, what where do you think in your career so far has been proportionally speaking, the biggest tipping point uh when it came to you getting involved with something or you doing something that has led you to these other projects that are happening now?

SPEAKER_02 16:30

Great question. I mean, there's so many. Kathy Campbell, I think meeting her kind of kicked it all off because with her I was able to find my way on these film sets and meet people and and then find out how to audition for these actual huge projects. And I mean, I've been doing this since I was like, I did a little movie when I was eight years old, very young, Men Go to Battle. And I was like, this was a weird experience. I think I like to do musical theater instead.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

So yeah, well, I mean, at that age, especially if you're an actor, if you're an actor, you get a lot more feedback from doing live theater than you do like on a film setup, especially at that age.

SPEAKER_02 17:14

Mm-hmm. Oh yes, absolutely, yeah. It's it's weird. But then so yeah, starting out fresh after college was like starting from point zero. I had to figure out what was gonna happen, what to do. But I think Kathy really kicked it off. A lot of stuff has would not have happened had I not been in Lexington that one certain day, that exact time. And yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:44

See, I'm j I'm jealous of you guys whose roles really revolve around being social. But as a writer, it doesn't really happen that much. Like I'll go well, like a coffee shop or like a Starbucks inside of a Barnes and Noble or something like that. Like nothing happens there. I have to really I have to it's more about sending emails. That's what it's like.

SPEAKER_01 18:04

No, seriously, it is.

Production Pace And Big-Name Cameos

SPEAKER_00 18:08

But no, I do get a little bit jealous when it comes to that because um because you know, you do put a lot of or like I do put a lot of work into it, but I uh that social element that comes with especially with acting, you know, it's it it looks a lot more fun in other ways that I don't get to experience necessarily as a writer. Are there any other outlets that you wish you had more time for other uh than you know just acting and trying to work your way, network your way through things?

SPEAKER_02 18:36

I mean, yes, of course. I wish I I don't know. I I I love to do so many different things. I love to travel and explore. I also love sailing, and I only get to do that in for a little bit every once, once a year. Um but man. One one thing. I don't know. But I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 18:59

More podcast interviews, obviously.

SPEAKER_02 19:02

Yeah. But no, that's a fascinating thing that you point out about the whole world of writing because your job is so important, crucial. It's Nathan always says, uh, my partner, he always says that the script is something that you can control. It's not, it's the first thing that can actually make the movie really, really good or really, really bad.

SPEAKER_00 19:28

Yeah, you kind of lock yourself in for better or worse when it comes to finishing a script.

SPEAKER_01 19:33

Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 19:35

Even even if it gets bought, it doesn't mean just because uh it gets sold doesn't mean it's gonna be good, you know? And a lot of and what I've found uh when doing when talking to other writers is that sometimes produ like producers and directors it it's uh it's either gonna be a really good thing or a really bad thing if they want to get involved with the writing process on an intimate level. You're either gonna find out that it works great or you're gonna find out that you're just collecting a paycheck.

SPEAKER_02 20:07

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

That's just how it goes.

Tax Incentives And The Midwest Boom

SPEAKER_02 20:09

No, I mean you give up so much when you hand the script over. I mean, it is it's becomes their project. They change things up to the moment they shoot them. I mean, it's fascinating. It's cool when they can collaborate with the writer. I think that's interesting as well. Because actors have things to say and other people have things to say.

SPEAKER_00 20:29

And if you know I'm it's an artistic industry, everyone has something to say. That's that's where they go to say things. Have we have you not seen the Oscars? Like everyone's got an opinion.

SPEAKER_01 20:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 20:44

Being someone who's also from the theater world, do you ever see actors that come through and you immediately recollect recognize that they haven't worked out their theatrical kinks when it comes to auditioning for film?

SPEAKER_02 20:55

Fascinating. Yes, all the time. I mean, there's just certain things that we learned in school that I was very grateful. Darcy Smith was an awesome professor, but he taught us these little tricks and quirks that, yeah, the camera is here and you can feel it. But sometimes when people come from the theater world, we're so used to just being in the world that we just kind of ignore the camera. And sometimes you can tell. Um I think the one the biggest thing that I've seen the most would be a spang on. I feel like the biggest thing is just overdoing. Because there's so much that you just don't need. Because it's so interesting to just simply watch a human be. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

Zero killers would also agree with that. We've all seen the Netflix documentary, haven't we? They just love to watch people be. Right.

SPEAKER_03 22:11

Oh my gosh, that's funny.

SPEAKER_00 22:13

Oh goodness. You start to see patterns repeat themselves when it comes when people walk through the door and they try to, you know, deliver their performance and hopefully it works out. Is there any common things that you think that the people do wrong that you know they would if you were to give advice to heed against would they would learn from?

SPEAKER_02 22:41

I feel like I'm gonna kind of answer it in a reverse. Things that when people when they do are awesome. Wait, fuck, what was the question? I just lost it. Yes. Okay, what what it um um um how do I say this? Hang on, give me a second.

New York Move, Networks, And Couch Culture

SPEAKER_00 23:09

It's okay. I'll just play the Jeopardy music over this.

SPEAKER_02 23:16

Oh shit. Um, okay, no. So when you're watching so many things, and a lot of the times when it's film, it's the same scene over and over and over. And people make choices sometimes, but they don't go all the way. And you know, so it's like if you have an opinion about something in the scene that, or like an idea, go a thousand and ten percent. Because when somebody does that, whether it's right or wrong or whatever, if you make the choice and you do the choice, like do it, it stands out and it's fascinating to watch. So if you make just have opinions, have opinions and go a hundred and ten percent, because if you don't stand out, what's the point?

SPEAKER_00 24:01

Hmm. A lack of overcommitment.

SPEAKER_02 24:05

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Overcommitment to your idea, your idea of this scene and character.

SPEAKER_00 24:17

How do because when it comes to getting that audition, your performance isn't the only thing that they're looking at. They're also looking at your look, you know, your walk, your talk, when you're not auditioning. That's the thing I think a lot of actors don't realize is that you're still auditioning when you're not reciting your lines.

SPEAKER_02 24:36

A thousand percent, yes.

SPEAKER_00 24:38

How often does that come into play or get talked about after they leave and you're discussing, okay, what what happened here?

SPEAKER_02 24:44

Well, I haven't so I haven't done I guess I've only done a certain amount of like in-person things or Zoom things where I actually get to talk with everybody. But it's it's very, I mean, it's frequent because you remember something that they say about themselves usually. Like, uh I don't know, say that you make a connection in the introduction that you are both from this small town that nobody's ever heard of. Like, that's kind of cool. And then we start to reference that person as the guy from that small town, or like the girl that can't pronounce her S's, or like it's like it stands out. Exactly. But like use your don't ignore any of it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:31

That what have you learned from casting people that has affected the way that you go to audition for things?

SPEAKER_02 25:39

Probably that. That the thing we just talked about, the going a thousand and ten percent. I mean, I've learned so much. It just takes commitment to your ideas about something. Yeah.

unknown 25:58

I think.

SPEAKER_00 25:59

Do you think that's something artists struggle with? Is just because well you can kind of put artists into two different camps, crudely, but it does work. The ones who have something really, really uh important to say, or something really insightful, but they kind of half-ass it, and it's it and it comes out really, really bad. And then there's the others who are the converse where they think they have something to say, and they g they go 110%, like we were talking about, and it's just a lot of word salad, you know.

SPEAKER_02 26:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:32

Have you noticed that as well?

SPEAKER_02 26:34

I mean, yes, to a certain extent. Sometimes that's like what's necessary for a certain role or something. But yes, I have.

SPEAKER_00 26:49

Well, let me let's pivot a little bit and I want to go to your personal craft of acting. Often when I when you're inside of a scene and you don't have any dialogue and you're just sitting there listening, how do you mentally maintain presence as the character inside of the scene without breaking it? Um without, you know.

Venice Red Carpet And Nerves

SPEAKER_02 27:10

Yeah, no, absolutely. It's a crazy thing because it's you have either people watching you or cameras on you, and it's hard to just forget and close it out. It just takes focus, I think. Yeah, it's a lot of doing your backstories, and and that's I like to work that way, so if there's any sort of improving or anything, you you have all the questions answered. Um and then yeah, just breathing and being in that moment with that other person, or with yourself and just breathing and being. I think I just focus on that. It's a constant push and pull of what would this person do versus what would I do? How is this different? How is this not different? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:07

To date, what would you say is the project that you're most proud of?

SPEAKER_02 28:15

Probably Dead Man's Wire. That's I mean, that's fair.

SPEAKER_00 28:18

It's a big production, it's fair.

SPEAKER_02 28:19

It's a it's a big production, and there was a lot of I was involved in many ways. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:25

Because not just as an actor, actress, you were also assisting on the casting as well in the beginning.

SPEAKER_02 28:31

Yes. Yes, exactly. And I learned so much, I mean, on all the projects, but being on that set every single day was really cool.

SPEAKER_00 28:40

When you were first trying to get some role get roles as an actress, you know, the beginning part of that process is always, all right, you just gotta take what you can get. And yeah, when you read a script, you can tell what how it's gonna be, but you need something for your reel. And that's something that every actress uh actor has to go through. Um but the other thing that all actors eventually learn is how to look for those red flags about in the beginning of what's going to actually be a decent production that you can get something for your reel for. What have you learned in that regard?

Micro-Crew To Full Set Scale

SPEAKER_02 29:13

Yeah, I I mean, I'm still learning it every single day. Um, I don't know, just do the research of who you're working with, I think is an important step before you accept a job. And also ask for things. Like if you need like asking for help, if say I got I I book a job in uh, I don't know, Canada, and I have to work as a local hire. Yes. You can always ask, I've learned, if they can help you out with a place to stay or whatever. That's uh, but it's scary because you don't want to ask for too much and then be like, oh, we don't want you anymore. They won't do that though, because it's when they find someone they like, I've realized, because we're in the world of it, that it's not easy to find, it's not as easy as we think it is to find that backup.

SPEAKER_00 30:13

Because you have to get approvals and you have to get a million different people's opinions about this character and this person's Do you think a lot of people end up in that particular predicament because they don't want to be they don't want to seem like a diva? Because they just got the job, they're very happy about it. But there's some things it's just like, I don't know how I'm gonna I don't wanna uh uh you know.

SPEAKER_02 30:34

Yes, no, seriously, yes. It's like, does this job pay enough for the day to where I can fly, stay, and fly back? It's and but it's like yeah, we need footage and it's hard. Oh my gosh, it's just so it's so difficult to make those game time decisions.

SPEAKER_00 30:53

There's one regard where I don't envy actors at all.

SPEAKER_02 30:55

No, not at all. No it's a lot of work. Exactly. And then it's always what's the next job? And should I just say yes to every single opportunity? I don't know. I have for the most part. Yeah, I think except for one thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:12

Because why'd you say no to that one thing?

SPEAKER_02 31:15

Because it was a bad time and it I would not have benefited from the process.

SPEAKER_04 31:20

Hmm.

SPEAKER_02 31:21

I see. It was, yeah, a very small, small, small, small project. That my time I decided could be better spent submitting for other projects or re-editing my reel or fixing my website or something.

SPEAKER_00 31:35

What has been the most difficult role that you've had to endure?

SPEAKER_02 31:45

Honestly, probably the most man. But like everything.

SPEAKER_00 31:53

You're like all the trauma. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 31:55

All the drama.

SPEAKER_00 31:58

So many things to pick from.

Tipping Points And Early Breaks

SPEAKER_02 32:00

Literally. I guess if we're including auditions as well, there was one that it was like the it was a lead of this one feature film, and the sides were crazy. I mean, the levels that we had I had to go, the extremes that I had to go to were crazy. It was like you're someone's chasing you and is about to kill you in this scene, and then you're at a coffee shop in this scene, and then you're it's like crying because something happened about your family, and yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:38

How do you guys drum up emotions like that? I've never understood it. I admire it, but I've never understood it.

SPEAKER_02 32:45

I I don't even know. I just I I put putting myself using what I know about the world and other people, and just really thinking what would this person do in this situation? What would I do in this situation? Yeah. I don't know. It's it's crazy. And then I just get so when I watch movies, I'm very, very easily the willing susp what is it called? Willing suspense willing suspicion of disbelief or something like that. You know what I'm talking about?

SPEAKER_00 33:19

Suspension of disbelief, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:21

That, yes, yes, yes, that. Um, no, just going my my it's super easy for me to get lost in the world of the movie. Two minutes in. That's why it's so hard for me to watch scary movies. But I think it's kind of in that sort of having an imagination and just trusting the world that you're watching or that you're acting in or that you're yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:45

I think a big part of that the being able to get lost in a world is your willingness to go along and play pretend with things. Like skeptical, skeptical people have a hard time watching things.

SPEAKER_02 33:58

Oh, totally. Oh my gosh, totally. It's yeah, just being able to let go and trust that you're in the hands of someone else now in in their journey.

SPEAKER_00 34:09

Do you think nowadays it's harder to do than it was maybe 10 or 20 years ago comparatively?

SPEAKER_02 34:15

I think so. Just because of of these and social media and the short time.

SPEAKER_00 34:22

Short form content. Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_02 34:24

That, yes.

SPEAKER_00 34:25

The thing we all participate in, but we all hate at the same time.

SPEAKER_02 34:28

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 34:30

I'm I'm all I'm almost on the fence of just being going to because yeah, smartphones are nice, but I'm really considering getting a dumb phone and just going that way.

SPEAKER_03 34:41

Honestly.

SPEAKER_00 34:41

I could always get a tablet with service, like if I really wanted to, you know.

SPEAKER_02 34:45

If you need it. Yeah. I know. I wish I could do that too, but sadly that wasn't.

SPEAKER_00 34:49

Because there's a level of focus when it comes to your art from if you look at like people from not just back in the day, but historically speaking, the the artists were also scientists at the same time because they were curious about everything. And I I often wonder how much how much progress we've lost, ironically, because people aren't being bored enough, you know.

SPEAKER_02 35:15

Yeah. I do know what you mean. It's fascinating that you point that out. Artists absolutely are scientists. Writers are scientists big time. They gotta like make the solution and stuff and mix it up and make it explode.

SPEAKER_00 35:32

Psychologically engine reverse engineer people to be able to recreate it.

SPEAKER_01 35:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 35:37

You gotta be psycho enough to do that in the first place.

SPEAKER_01 35:40

Well, it's like what?

Writing, Control, And Collaboration

SPEAKER_02 35:42

My brain does not work that way. I like to pick it apart. Um, yeah, no, I mean it's it's just being able to like walk on a sidewalk and pass someone and say hi, I'd love to do that. But everyone is in in there, or they're like just they just don't want to connect. It's weird.

SPEAKER_00 36:03

What's ironic is because movies, even nowadays, don't portray people like that. They portray people the society the the way it was before the internet. Yes, that's that's the way acting happens, but if you were to actually portray society now, you would not have a movie.

SPEAKER_01 36:18

No, you'd be so bored. Or maybe that's it. Maybe we've done it. That's done it, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:27

We've we've made life so good that it's not boring anymore.

SPEAKER_01 36:31

Yeah. Seriously.

SPEAKER_00 36:35

What is the best experience that you've had on set?

SPEAKER_02 36:41

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 36:43

It's fine if it's dead man's wire. It's perfectly fine.

SPEAKER_02 36:46

No, I don't, I don't, I really don't know. That's so that's so hard. I mean, now I'm only thinking about Dead Man's Wire. I don't know. Just in general, being able to play with another actor, feeling the support all around you is so cool. It's so cool. And just being able to connect and change and make fun stuff happen.

SPEAKER_00 37:15

I get the feeling you're the social butterfly on the set.

SPEAKER_02 37:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 37:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 37:20

Quite.

SPEAKER_00 37:21

All right. I was my my intuition was correct there.

SPEAKER_01 37:25

Yes, just a little.

SPEAKER_00 37:27

Just a little. Has that ever gotten you trouble?

SPEAKER_02 37:29

Um, no, I don't think so. No.

SPEAKER_00 37:33

Okay, self-aware enough to be able to regulate it.

SPEAKER_02 37:35

Yeah. I feel like I'm I'm pretty sure Some people don't have that. No, I know.

SPEAKER_00 37:40

And then they just keep going.

SPEAKER_02 37:42

Exactly. It's like, wait, no, that this is important. We need to listen. Yeah. Just being able to always have eyes and ears everywhere at all times is important. It's very important.

SPEAKER_00 37:54

How did you get uncomfortable in front of the camera?

SPEAKER_02 37:58

Um, I think just a lot of practice. A lot of it came from school, just getting used to it. And then experience, just doing it more and more.

SPEAKER_00 38:11

Yeah.

unknown 38:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:12

Do you have a specific role that you think you would shine in the most with your skills as of right now?

SPEAKER_02 38:21

I just watched um Barefoot in the Park and the movie. Sorry. Not it's it's a play, but Neil Simon. But um just watched the movie and something quirky and fun and I don't I don't know, emotional, but just somebody that trusts everybody, like me. That would be fun. That would be fun. Something I get a lot. A period piece. I look like a period piece person. I get told that all the time.

SPEAKER_00 38:54

Really? Why why why do you think that is?

SPEAKER_02 38:56

Um, I don't know. Just because I'm so pale.

unknown 38:59

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 39:00

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 39:00

I also get European immigrants in the wilderness, basically.

SPEAKER_01 39:05

Oh god. Oh my gosh. Uh I'm so afraid of bugs, that would be a disaster.

SPEAKER_00 39:11

Maybe that's your role.

SPEAKER_02 39:15

Especially somebody said this recently.

SPEAKER_00 39:17

Oh shoot, now I see it. Dang it. I didn't pick that up until now until you spotted it out. I'm like, now now I'm just gonna see that the entire time. Yeah, I know right now. I don't know how I feel about that. Oh goodness. Do you have any commonalities that people other like that that you get approached to for a role for?

SPEAKER_02 39:37

What do you mean?

Theater Habits Vs. Camera Truth

SPEAKER_00 39:38

Well, because you said you have this type of look that people commonly point out to you. Are there any other commonalities like when you audition that people point out they're like, oh yeah, I like that?

SPEAKER_02 39:50

Like my weirdness, my quirkiness, probably. Okay that would probably be the most thing that stands, the biggest thing that stands out normally. Like, for example, so I just walked in New York Fashion Week, woo, 2026 for A-Potts, Aaron Potts. He's awesome and amazing. He his dress was the one I was wearing on the red carpet in Venice. I wore a bunch of his stuff. I mean, ugh, he's so kind to yes. Um, anyways, did the shoot like three days ago, and finding finding me playing with the photographer, and I made quirky faces, and now there's like a picture of me in Vogue Runway that's like like crazy. Like, who does that?

SPEAKER_00 40:41

Did you sign up for that? Is is is your contract open enough to where they can just kind of use whatever they want?

SPEAKER_02 40:47

Yeah, yeah. But being able to play like that was really cool. It was awesome.

SPEAKER_00 40:54

Yeah, the modeling I I recently interviewed somebody who was also a model and an actor, but lately he's been doing modeling work and you know he's been telling me a little bit about what it's like behind the scenes, and he sent me this video of uh I think it was like the waiting room. And it was in New York too. But oh cool. Yeah, and there was like, oh god, like 40 people or something like that, crammed like sardines into a back room or something like that. All of them models, you know? And I'm like, Oh my gosh. Goodness.

SPEAKER_02 41:24

That's like Yeah, they're skinny little fit.

SPEAKER_00 41:28

I I don't I don't envy that world either.

SPEAKER_02 41:31

No, I see that's I haven't I've never done anything in New York as far as modeling stuff goes so far, except until now. But yeah, I know I started talking to everyone, and it's that over and over and over. And they they showed me a picture also, and it's just a bunch of girls wearing the same thing in a line in a tiny little dingy hallway. It's just like, oh no.

SPEAKER_00 41:54

Fashion is not fashionable behind the scenes.

SPEAKER_01 41:56

No, quite that.

SPEAKER_00 41:59

How would you describe the New York art scene compared to Louisville? The Midwest versus the big city?

SPEAKER_02 42:05

Oh my gosh. I mean, there's just so much here. Like so much. It's just so big. But it's you have to same stuff. I mean, you have to find your people, your own community, and kind of make things happen and still until you start, until other people start finding you. Because if you just sit around and wait, nothing, nothing's gonna happen. Just like in the Midwest.

SPEAKER_00 42:31

Where do you think you're gonna go from here in light of your experience that you've had so far?

SPEAKER_02 42:38

I will continue to book jobs. Sorry, kind of manifesting right now.

SPEAKER_00 42:45

You're like, you got this offset.

SPEAKER_02 42:47

I will book jobs. I will get more work.

SPEAKER_00 42:50

Start burning incense and rubbing crystals.

SPEAKER_02 42:54

No, I think I've I really, really, really enjoyed the modeling stuff I've done very recently. I've never really totally dove into the world, and I really enjoyed it and got a lot of good feedback. So I think that's I think that's gonna step into my world a little bit more than I'm used to.

Make Bold Choices: Audition Advice

SPEAKER_00 43:16

I saw that you uh on your Instagram that you've you've done body paint before, and that looks like the most uncomfortable thing that there is.

SPEAKER_02 43:24

It was crazy. No, he did it in like 45 minutes, and that's insane. That's like so fast, but it actually wasn't uncomfortable because it dried, and then I was like, okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:36

You don't feel like I have a bunch of like once it dries, you got a little like your body's covered in corn flakes just kind of crinkling everywhere.

SPEAKER_02 43:41

No, it's not like that. He uses this special airbrushy kind of stuff, and it feels weightless. It's like when girls go get a fancy spray tan. Sometimes it's like the same. I'm pretty sure it's around it's about the same thing, would be my guess. But yeah, no. I'm not uncomfortable at all.

SPEAKER_00 44:01

That's surprising. Because I was imagining that it would just as it dries, it gets kind of cornflaky. You know what I mean? And it starts chipping off like car paint or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 44:11

Oh God. That's like actual paint. Like I was a child and I would like touch paint. Oh my gosh. It's like the worst feeling ever.

SPEAKER_00 44:19

Like latex paint or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 44:21

Uh yes.

SPEAKER_00 44:24

My friend also told me that the modeling world in terms of expectations is sometimes much more rigorous than acting. Have you found that to be the case?

SPEAKER_02 44:33

I mean, I don't know. I honestly I just don't know yet. Because I'm not I'm not in it that much. But ask me again in a month and I'll let you know.

SPEAKER_00 44:45

In a month? What's happening in a month?

SPEAKER_02 44:46

I don't know. I just think I'll be more involved and have more experiences.

unknown 44:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 44:53

Know like what it's actually about.

SPEAKER_00 44:55

Why is it did you move to New York because that's where your your partner is from, or is there a little bit more strategy that was involved in that decision?

SPEAKER_02 45:04

Um, kind of both. I mean, I'm still not a hundred percent moved here. I bounce around a lot, but uh like I don't have to I don't actually pay for a place, I just stay with people. And so um I think wait, shoot, what was the question? I got distracted.

SPEAKER_00 45:27

Did you what were what were the decisions that all the decisions that went into moving to New York other than a partner?

SPEAKER_02 45:35

Yeah. Um definitely work and meeting people up here is so nice, and it's so helpful, and there's a million dance classes you can take, and there's uh there's there's just always something to do that you can benefit your future, I think. I think my future in the world of the arts. Like the New York Fashion Week stuff was I mean, I had to be here, and um there's uh a person that does like a filmmaker happy hour every month, and so that's here. And meeting people from there, I I met someone, a photographer, Tom, who we took some, he took some awesome pictures. Um, some of them are on my Instagram, but uh yeah, it's just little things like that that benefit by being here.

SPEAKER_00 46:28

Because you have your talent agencies right now, as they're currently listed in my uh you have two sections of Heyman, one in Ohio, one in Kentucky, and then a third, I think God, where was it from?

SPEAKER_02 46:40

Columbus, what is it? I don't know. But then yeah, the other agency is uh Bennett Connection. It's a newer, yeah, addition to life, I guess newer-ish. It was warm when that happened. But yeah, she's also she's on their awesome, the whole team is, and they're out of Texas. So, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:01

What have you learned from different types of agencies that you sign up with in terms of their expectations and what also they can offer? And what would be your advice to people trying to pick a good agency?

Presence, Backstory, And Stillness

SPEAKER_02 47:12

That's a good question. Um, just know what you're getting yourself into and don't expect them to do all the work because they literally can't. They have to take care of other people too. Um yeah, that's the biggest thing, I think. And also just do the work and always like how people check social media, check your emails. Make sure there's not an audition that had just sent to you that needs to be in by end of day if possible, or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 47:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 47:51

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 47:52

Do you think you'll end up going more of a modeling route versus acting, or is this sort of just something supplementing in the time? Is acting your main focus that you eventually want to get focused on?

SPEAKER_02 48:01

I mean, probably both, but yes, acting I will always probably I don't know. I I would have I would have said that uh be last week, but I don't know. I had such a blast and found so much joy in the modeling world. I don't know. Probably both. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:22

Why both? Why not why not one?

SPEAKER_02 48:27

Because I'm indecisive and I love them both. Okay, well fair enough. They work together, I think. I mean, you always see, I mean, Jennifer Lawrence does, she was on the billboard, and she's also uh amazing actress, as everybody knows, and so is I don't know, Zendea does a lot of that stuff, and I feel like all of the actors do that. It's just like an easier, I think, an easier way to pay the bills in between things.

SPEAKER_00 48:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 49:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:01

Where what city what city would you move to, do you think, uh for that type of work if it wasn't New York City?

SPEAKER_02 49:08

If it wasn't New York City. I don't know. Probably I have all my friends are in Chicago, but if career focused, I would probably look in the what's it called? Not America, because that's where all the movies are going. And there's also fashion over there and Europe. Yes, Europe.

SPEAKER_00 49:37

Okay. I heard about that. I haven't looked too much into that, but I don't they're leaving because it's cheaper to actually produce films there than it is here in America.

SPEAKER_02 49:48

It is, especially Hollywood.

SPEAKER_00 49:50

You can't even film in Hollywood anymore.

SPEAKER_02 49:52

Oh, no. I mean, people I'm yeah, so many people that I know out there just aren't working. It's terrible. But they're all in they're all over in, I don't know, where uh um like Australia and I don't even those places.

SPEAKER_00 50:09

It feels kind of sad because you don't know the full ramifications of what this looks like 10, 15 years down the road.

SPEAKER_02 50:15

Right? I know.

Choosing Projects And Red Flags

SPEAKER_00 50:17

I know is America not gonna be the hub of filmmaking anymore?

SPEAKER_02 50:21

I don't I know, I I hope it is. I hope it is too always be New York, but I don't know. Yeah. It's weird.

SPEAKER_00 50:30

Have you talked to anybody that that like is concerned about that as well? I mean, yeah, everyone because I would imagine, especially as actors, like you gotta go where the work is, obviously.

SPEAKER_02 50:41

Absolutely. Yes, you do. And I mean, I know Paul Pauline Chalamet um was just on the film in Arkansas, but she spends her time half in somewhere in Europe and half some I think New York. Um, but I don't know, maybe people will start doing that more. It's really weird.

SPEAKER_00 51:06

Hmm. Well, Katie, it's been great getting to know you. Thanks for coming on. I appreciate it. Yes. I think I actually did see you, now that I think about it, at this last year's Independent Film Fest in Cincinnati. Yes. I might have I may have passed you because I think you look familiar.

SPEAKER_02 51:23

You look familiar enough to wear I was there briefly, yes. And will be there this next year too.

SPEAKER_00 51:31

Okay. Because I just had the the director and the founder on the show. And that's Alison.

SPEAKER_02 51:37

I know I saw on her Instagram. I was like, oh my god, no way.

SPEAKER_00 51:40

Yeah, she she was great.

SPEAKER_02 51:42

Amazing. She is so, so good.

SPEAKER_00 51:45

Works very hard too. Great communicator.

SPEAKER_02 51:48

Yeah, it's insane the things this woman does. I mean, she's got kids and she is like a whole film festival, and she does so many things and helps so many people, which is super, super cool.

SPEAKER_00 51:59

Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. I mean, ultimately, the film community, especially locally, rely on people like her to be able to have to f you know, create these places where you can actually display your art.

SPEAKER_02 52:10

Exactly. I know she's probably, I mean, she's another big reason why film actually kind of worked out. I got to learn so much from her and meet so many people, amazing artists, and who have helped me from where I was at the at that summer that I graduated. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:29

Well, do you have any final thoughts you want to leave with the audience before I kick you off?

SPEAKER_02 52:36

Yeah. I don't know, be a nice person and have fun with your life.

SPEAKER_00 52:42

Honestly, I feel like that's probably underrated advice. Usually when I the responses I get to that question, they're like, Oh, I gotta think about what is what did Socrates say again? You know, and you just try to you try to crank some modern wisdom out and just be like, yeah, no, we're we're all just kind of really advanced things that have consciousness, just experience and enjoy it.

SPEAKER_02 53:08

Yeah, exactly. Just yeah, don't forget to enjoy life. It's only so long.

SPEAKER_00 53:15

Well, Katie, thanks again.

SPEAKER_02 53:17

Yes, thank you. It's so lovely chatting with you.