Focal Point

Professionalism When Your Director Wants 20 Takes #66 Actor Bill Houskeeper

• Anthony

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In this episode, Bill talks honestly about what it takes to stay employable in a shifting industry and the aftermath of the LA fires.

We get specific about the working actor’s toolbox, headshots, reels, and relationships with crews and how he approaches 20-take days—giving editors options without losing consistency. We also dig into navigating director notes, protecting chemistry with scene partners, and keeping ego out of the room.

A story from A Soldier’s Secret highlights what preparation really looks like—deep research, listening, and letting behavior emerge naturally instead of forcing it. We close with practical tactics: memorizing efficiently, handling last-minute script changes, making thin dialogue playable.

Welcome And LA Fires Check-In

SPEAKER_02

Welcome to the Focal Point Podcast. I'm your host, Tony Riggs. Here I take a deep dive into my personal interests of the hidden craftsmanship, philosophies, and passions behind society's talent. If you're intrigued by artistic nuance, please subscribe and follow on my YouTube channel, Spotify, and BuzzSprout. With that being said, let me introduce you to today's guests. How's the uh how's the situation been since the uh the fires in in LA?

SPEAKER_00

Calmer. Um, I mean it's been like a year now since that happened. Um so things have definitely like I would say they got normal, um, especially if you're in that area of LA. Um I a few months ago, I was about a mile away from where the fire ended, and I still didn't even drive into it. And I was like, if I keep going straight for just another mile, I can see kind of what the aftermath looks like. And I was like, no, I'm just gonna turn back around and just let that be what it is. Um, I know a lot of people just it was a tragedy, is a complete understatement. I mean, these people had their entire lives ripped out. Um, the people that I do know uh that had places out there, you know, they're they're working at getting their life back together, and that chapter in their in that book is coming to a close, thankfully, and are just trying to um continue on and pick up the pieces where they best they could.

Hollywood’s Center Shifts To New Hubs

SPEAKER_02

Mm-hmm. I was actually um a year ago, I was interviewing I I did two interviews back to back in the same weekend when it was happening with people that were from LA. One guy he was a cinematographer, he was uh he was you know doing a promo for his Western movie, and the other guy was a former actor, but mostly does music. And with the uh the musician, he was kind of he uh he was monitoring it as we were recording because he was pretty close to it. He could see like the smoke rising from the houses. I don't know the geography of LA, but it was uh it was it was an interesting situation because I I don't it's like when you're uh when I'm doing an interview, normally the you know the guest is fairly focused. Uh but then you have this other situation where you you don't know what's gonna happen. And so um his reaction during the entire thing was that he had to keep going back and checking outside with whether or not he actually had to evacuate because he was that close to it. And so in conjunction with that, because some of the business has been moving out of Hollywood as as far as I've heard and you know, somewhat noticed, because we've been getting more people shooting things in the Midwest now, um, which is where I'm from. I'm from Ohio. And I I I I I worry about the culture because that was Hollywood has been the central hub for the better part of like 80 to 100 years or something like that for filmmaking. And so I just like to get people's perspectives upon the the film culture there.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I mean, as far as filming goes, we've lost a lot of our we've been losing our filming uh in this area for a while now. Like we're still kind of the hub, but a lot of places we're going, or a lot of films are going to, like Atlanta, uh Texas, Louisiana, a lot of stuff has been going into Canada. Oddly enough, when I film, I'm actually filming more out of state as well. Um, you know, I'll do about six to eight films a year, and I would probably say half of that's out of Los Angeles.

SPEAKER_02

Uh so you're getting business from Los Angeles and then going out, or half the business is being filmed in Los Angeles, what you're saying.

SPEAKER_00

Uh it just depends like wherever production's at. Like some productions, like we had the production out in Idaho, and so producers hit me up from that area, and um, you know, so I just fly out there and do that uh film out there. But the production companies were already kind of established in Idaho. Um Idaho.

SPEAKER_02

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, yes, Idaho. I've heard of that. Uh in the indie film market, they've got a lot of stuff going on. I'm I mean, it's not quite the Atlanta level, definitely not the LA market. Um, but they do have stuff going on out there. Um and and they've got good stuff going on out there. Um so it is kind of cool to see with like the advancements of technology um be able to have more availability in other areas to put together films. You know, one reason why I think that uh LA was always dominating the entire market was because uh not just the terrain and the atmosphere, you know, of what we've got out here, uh, but also because of the equipment and stuff. Like you wouldn't find really expensive cameras so much in Idaho, right? You know, and now everybody has access to a red camera, you know, or to a high-end camera.

SPEAKER_02

Uh and several people with a red camera who live in nowhere.

Tech Access And Indie Filmmaking Growth

SPEAKER_00

Exactly. You know, and these are people who are passionate about filmmaking, um, but you know, they just kind of like their hometown, but they still have the passion and they don't want to move to Los Angeles for whatever reason. You know, if their family's out there, they're just comfortable in Idaho or anywhere. Um, but they still have the passion there. And now technology has gotten to a point to where it's so cheap and so good. Well, they can go buy a red camera if they really want to, and if they have the means to, and put together a really good show. So I I think that's one thing that the industry is going for that's really um really helping the industry.

SPEAKER_02

Okay. I heard a lot of um from the some of some a few of the cinematographers that I know out in LA that right now to supplement the bread, the bread and butter has really been vertical content. Have you have you gotten involved with that at all?

SPEAKER_00

I'm sorry, say it again.

SPEAKER_02

I've got to I've heard that I've heard that um some of the from some of the cinematographers that I know out in LA that some of the bread and butter that they've been using to supplement their income during you know the economical phase in Los Angeles is vertical content. Have you gotten involved with that at all?

The Rise Of Vertical Content

SPEAKER_00

I haven't. And I know verticals are taking off. Um the word behind the scenes is verticals are they're gonna hit really quick. Um, a lot of people are gonna start doing those. I have not, I've seen two breakdowns come down through verticals on my own. Um, but I know that it's going to happen. Um I don't have enough experience with them to say where they're gonna go for sure. But with what I'm hearing, they are definitely in the works and they are going to come fast. And I think that's gonna be an opportunity for people.

SPEAKER_02

I've never watched any of the vertical content, uh, but I see a pop-up all the time in my feed. Um, and I've never taken it's usually like a short series, but from the clips that I've seen from you know various uh shows that they're doing, that's kind of like a really well-done soap opera, as far as I can tell.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and that's what it seems to be. Um and again, I like the fact that again, you're letting creative, really highly creative people have another avenue. You know, it's like it's it takes a lot of money to go out and make a two-hour film. But if you've got these little vertical things going on where you're just filming for a minute or less or whatever, um, and you can still put together the quality of a real, you know, of a of a studio show or even a high-end indie, um, yeah, I mean, uh it's just uh like I said, it's coming.

Meet Bill Housekeeper

SPEAKER_02

Well, just go ahead and take a second now that we're recording to uh introduce yourself, how long what you do, how long you've been doing it. Um I've done, you know, my research, but just go ahead and in your own words, just introduce yourself.

SPEAKER_00

Uh my name is Bill Housekeeper. I have been an actor now um since I was seven. Uh, grew up in a small town out in Utah where there was not a real lot of uh of films being done. There's still not a lot of films being done in my hometown. Uh there's a uh community college that when I went there had an amazing theater program. And then I got my bachelor's at uh Mesa State University and Grand Junction in acting as well. Uh lived in Los Angeles now for almost 25 years. Um steadily working actor. Um do about eight or ten films a year. Um yeah, just uh just had a lot of training and a lot of fun doing it.

SPEAKER_02

I've noticed uh when I took a look at your IMDB, I noticed that about you know per year, you know, four between four and six are listed, at least going back to 2020. But you've been has has that cranked up since you know in the last few years for business for you?

Work Surge And Word‑Of‑Mouth Casting

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it has. Um, and that's the weird thing is right when the pandemic, I would say about maybe four or five months into the pandemic, for some weird reason, um, I started getting emails um from all kinds of production companies, and it was always like, we don't know when this film is going to start filming, but we want you in it. Um I am not sure what kicked that off, but I'm very fortunate for that. Uh, you know, a lot of the stuff I never even auditioned for. Um, and now here we are a few years later, and it's basically been because of word of mouth. You know, it's like, oh um, you know, we've heard of you or we've worked with you in the past. We want to bring you in. Um and so that's that's been very fortunate as well. I feel bad because my website is not even really up and running to the point that it needs to be, because I would love to get some demo reel or some footage on that site, on my website. Um, but I just haven't had a chance to, mainly because I've just been so busy. And oddly enough, I don't it's not been a necessity for me to have it to that point yet. But it's something I need to to get on. It it I think it would help out a lot.

SPEAKER_02

Where where do you think that what advantages do you think you'll get from you know fully bringing that about in order to further your career along? Like where where where's the strategic business transition that um that involves that for you?

SPEAKER_00

So I mean it's it's just another tool. It's a tool in the toolbox, is all that it is. You know, people say, Do you have a business card? Well, yeah, I got a business card. Okay, do you have an Instagram? Yeah, I got an Instagram. Do you have a website? Yeah, I got a website. Um, you know, it's just another tool. And as an actor, especially if you're just starting out, uh, you need to have as many tools as you can get in that toolbox. Um, everybody has always been, you know, preaching. You need to have a headshot, you need to have a demo reel, you know. And then like the next, you know, steps are you need to have an agent, a manager, all this stuff. And that's those are all tools and things that you have. Well, the agent and manager are not really tools, they're more of a member of your team. Um, because that's what it is. Acting is, as an actor, I believe you are really just the spokesman for the group. You're the face of your own company. But everybody will tell you that, well, we know who Steve Jobs is, there's a thousand people working behind that guy making the product. And um, and that's you know, to all the new, newer actors. Um yes, what you gotta remember is your agent, your manager, your publicist. Uh, if you have a marketing person who's uh keeping up with your with your um social media, these are part of your team. You know, it is a team, you are just the spokesman for the group. You're the only one that they see on camera.

SPEAKER_02

Okay. Tell me about the transition uh early on when you went from theater to getting involved with film. Because I've heard from some other actors that I've known as well as interviewed that there's there's a learning curve when it comes to you know the way that you portray that your character, because you know, with theater, you're very uh you project a lot with your body, but uh versus film where you really have to kind of focus on your facial expressions.

Tools, Team, And Career Infrastructure

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I mean a camera's gonna pick up everything. You know, you can't hide from the camera. That when that camera is on you, you you're seen. And no matter what thing you do, it's gonna be known. Um you cannot escape it. Theater the thing I love about theater is you have no second takes. It is probably the most authentic, in my opinion, I think it's probably the most authentic form of acting because you're in it. Any audience is in it with you.

SPEAKER_02

Because you have to project to the back of the room, too.

SPEAKER_00

You have to, yeah, I mean you have to project. Um, but I mean it also comes in with vocal training. I mean, you can whisper and still be heard in the very back of the house. You know, it's all about technique and vocal training because sometimes your character has to whisper to another character when you're trying to keep things secret. And, you know, back in you know, back in Shakespeare's time, they didn't have microphones. And now we do have microphones. Okay, so we've got we have a way too much.

SPEAKER_02

I was just wondering about that because there's you know cheaper.

SPEAKER_00

But the thing is, a microphone is a technology, and anybody who has seen any show, any concert, if you're in the corporate world and you're going to corporate meetings, if you are even on a cruise ship watching some of their plays, there's gonna be a failure. If you're seeing something live, there's going to be at some point, there's a very good chance there's going to be a failure no matter what your budget is, no matter what you're looking at. Uh, the Super Bowl. We lost fee uh like what a minute and a half of the Super Bowl a few years ago because of a power outage. Do you remember that?

SPEAKER_02

I do remember that. I don't remember who was playing, but I remember that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, but but you remember that.

SPEAKER_02

I remember that, that's for sure.

Theater Versus Film Craft

SPEAKER_00

Everybody on this in this remembers that. And my point is this technology is going to fail. So if you're an actor thinking, well, I have a microphone and I'm gonna go to Broadway, so I'm covered. No, you are not. Uh prepare for the best, hope for, or hope for the best, prepare for the worst. If your microphone goes out, you need to have the vocal training to be able to project those whispers to hit the back of the house. Now that could be a few different ways, you know. I mean, there's techniques and there's uh subconscious things you can do. Like if you, hey, how you doing? You know, it's like the audience like, okay, well, we see that he has his mouth up. We can see he's talking directly to this person very closely. We know that this is a whisper, so the people on the other side of the room don't hear this. That's more of like a subconscious way of doing it. Where the audience is like, I get it. I see it.

SPEAKER_02

Because what my take on the theatrical productions is that is it's the it's the halfway point between a book and a movie. You're half watching it live, half hearing it, and then you're imagining the rest of the set in the world that encapsulates the the stage that you're on. And so people are kind of more willing, I think, especially nowadays, because movies are really good at just the level, the technical level of accomplishing something that's very aesthetic to be able to, you know, grab you. With theater, you you have to be willing to use your imagination the same way that you do with a book. And so there's a little bit more leeway, in my opinion, when it uh versus uh when it comes to theater versus film.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And um, you know, it's interesting to see what an editor can do in a film. You can have 45 uh just terrible takes, but if you've got that one that's kind of good, and then an editor walks in and he's like, here's you get an Oscar-winning editor, he'll be like, Here's how we make this look good. Here's how we just make this scene shine. Um I really want to point out to any actor out there, um really pay attention to your lighting, your sound, your editing, pay attention to your crew. They're the ones who are gonna make you look good, they're the ones who are gonna make you sound good. You could be the best actor in the world, but if nobody hears a word that you're saying, then what? You know, if the lights are off of you and nobody sees you, then what? You know, so it's like give these people the respect and they've earned, um, be very kind to them because they're there to help you look good as well. So really be nice to your crew.

SPEAKER_02

Well, when now that when you're mentioning sound, uh when I was going through some of your material, uh you were in a film called uh Envy Leads the Way. And your part in that, I'm pretty sure uh when I when I when I saw your scene came on come on, that you had to do ADR for that. Was it do you do you recall doing that?

SPEAKER_01

Envy Lead the Way is it? I did two movies with Ren. Yes, that one was.

SPEAKER_02

I saw the way that your lips were moving, but it looked like you know it was much more congested in the throat, but it was really clear audio when it was uh dubbing over. And I was just wondering about your experiences with you know technical things that you have to get called back in for. Do you end up getting called back in for things like that often?

Respect Your Crew: Sound And Light

SPEAKER_00

Not often, but it does happen. And um when you do something like that, you've really got to pay attention, like what it is you're doing. Um, what I would do is I would listen, re-listen to what I had done. You know, have the director send you in the scene that needs to be reshot and duplicate it perfectly. Um now I have been known to have like my stopwatch on my phone going. This is in rehearsal. This isn't actually when you're there to do um, this is you're training yourself to sound exactly like what you did. Well, how long was this pause? Was pause is five seconds. You have to have that be five seconds. So having like a timer or more of a stopwatch of there's your five seconds, speak the word now. Um and then usually when they give you the footage that you're gonna have to sync back up, it'll have a timestamp sometimes as well on the bottom of the screen. So you can kind of like, okay, it's coming up, it's coming up, five, four, three, two, one, go. Um that's one trick that I've used uh in that situation. Again, you know, those out of all the acting I've done, that's probably the hardest. That's probably the hardest type of acting. Um just because it has to be perfect. Um, and if it's not, it it's hard to get it right. And again, you're looking at like your editor um and possibly your sound engineer, they're gonna be having to work a little extra harder to try to get you to do that, uh, which is why doing a sound check and getting mic levels up front is really important before you even start to take do the take.

unknown

Yeah.

ADR, Precision, And Performance Sync

SPEAKER_02

Have you run into the the situation where you're working with a director and he just ends up doing like 10, 20 takes of something that's really simple or where he's just trying to get something right, but for some reason, you know, it's not going the way he wants. And what would be your advice to other actors that when it comes to having the patience to work through that sort of situation?

SPEAKER_00

It's gonna happen. It's gonna happen. How often is it gonna happen? How often are you filming with that director? Well, I'm filming with this director for two months, then it's gonna happen for two months. Um be ready for it. Uh is it a problem? I mean, uh that's the other thing. Is it a problem? Uh one thing I would do is do the take the exact same way every single time. And if it gets to be like 20 or 30 takes, do it the exact same way, but different. Try to find a different feeling behind it. Try to put a different inclination on certain words. I mean, you already know the character, you should at this point, if you're already filming, you should know what the scene is about. You should have done your character analysis, you should have done your script analysis, the other actor is in the scene with you. Take what they're saying and maybe add in a little. I mean, you know, maybe the guy is, it's a bad example, but maybe the person's like, you know, saying something more sarcastically than playfully. And if you get that reading from that other actor, take it that way. Go down that road. Have the rest of your lines be like that. Again, the reason I think that the director is doing it so many takes is because they want to have a lot of options in the editing room. So look at it like that. Don't get mad at them for doing that. Well, we we've been filming the exact same scene for an hour and a half. It's three lines. Yeah, it's a little it's a little uh time consuming. I get it. But at the end of the day, He's trying to make you look good.

unknown

Right.

Surviving Endless Takes

SPEAKER_00

So they're gonna they're doing this to get the best take that they got to make you look the best you can look. So I mean, i is it nerve-wracking? For me, no. Could I see it be for somebody else? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02

Is that something that you trained yourself to just be able to, you know, get through over the course of the years? Or was that something that um, you know, once you got into film and the business, uh is mainly does it does it come does that being able to persevere through that sort of situation come from callousness or just sheer professor professionalism?

SPEAKER_00

Uh you know, for me, I'm kind of a different person. I mean, I'm used to it. I've been used to it my entire life. I don't know why. Um, I don't know if it's just like I have a special level of patience people don't have. I don't know. Um, I have done movies where they're like, your call time is two o'clock in the afternoon, we need you here. In I was filming a part of a cop, and um be in your police uniform, be ready to go. So me being me, I always show up about an hour or two early. I just hate, I don't care if other people are late. It doesn't bother me at all if other people are late. I cannot stand it if I am late. So I won't be late at all. I'll get there an hour or two ahead of schedule and I'll just read. I'll read my script, or I uh, and if I'm not reading my script, I'm in my head and I'm analyzing this character, I'm analyzing the scene, I'm analyzing this entire script as whole. I am trying to get an idea in my mind of what I think the director has of that scene or of that project in his mind. Um, you know, if I'm working on a project, let's say I have three pages of dialogue, and I have a month to learn three pages of dialogue for whatever reason. I will probably spend maybe an hour, a page, maybe. Um, but I will probably spend between no joke, probably between six and twelve hours just on the scene. Um, I love driving. I will put I will make a copy of the script, I'll put it in my passenger seat in my car for that night, and um, or the scene of the day that I've had to work on. And I'll work on it for a couple of hours in my apartment, uh, just running lines, getting it kind of down, getting the flow of it, seeing where it's going. And then from 8 o'clock to 10 o'clock at night, I'm in my car. And I've got the scene right next to me, and all I'm doing is why? Where? How? Who, relationships, what is this, why is this? What's the undertone? What's the theme? What's the theme of not the overall uh show, but just also the theme of the overall scene?

Patience, Preparation, And Process

SPEAKER_02

Do you think there's a point that you can obviously over-rehearse uh to and you end up getting locked into the specific version that you have in your head? And then when you get on set, then the director's like, oh no, we're gonna take this emotional direction. And then suddenly you're now fighting between all this memorization that you've done and then you know being able to give the director what he wants.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely. Um, I I think that that is something that um can definitely happen, happen to me at least. I can't speak for every actor, but have I had that? Absolutely. Um, that's the reason why when I'm driving in my car, I'm not rehearsing how I'm saying words. I have to scream right now. Because if I try to take my emotion from the other character every time. Um, and if the character, the other actor in the scene, you know, says something and I want to cry, I'm gonna cry. Now they may not like the shot. The editor, you know, the director might say cut, the editor might be like, I can't use this, but it's there. It's in the uh it's in the footage if they want to use it. The key is you gotta make it real. Why are you crying? Is there a real reason for you to cry? Did they really hurt you? Really? Um, maybe they did, maybe they didn't. Um, you know, I'm a Meisner-trained actor, and basically that is all about listening for a natural reaction. Keeping the reaction natural. That's where you want to go. That's the goal, is to keep the natural response. Not how you rehearsed it in your shower the day before for 20 minutes. You don't want to do that. Don't do that because then that could sabotage you. And I've seen actors do that. Okay, I'm you're gonna say this, and then I'm gonna come in and this without ever talking to the other actor, by the way. This person has been working in their apartment, in their shower, in their car, wherever it is, and I'm gonna say this line exactly like this, and it's beautiful and it's flawless, and they nail it. But the other actor comes in, and the the line before what this actor has prepared for says a line in a way that doesn't constitute those feelings.

SPEAKER_02

So now you say then that would you say then that um chemistry which okay, rather, which do you think matters more? Chemistry with your scene partner or chemistry with the director? Because with the director, you know, if you have that line of communication where you know you guys are being able to understand each other very, you know, very well, versus being able to hold that authenticity within the scene with your scene partner.

SPEAKER_00

Both.

SPEAKER_02

A bit of a trolley problem. I had to throw that one at you.

Avoid Over‑Rehearsal; Stay Alive To Partner

SPEAKER_00

Oh, good, good. It's a great question. And I I really like this question a lot. Um, first off, I would say both. Um second off, you should hope, and you will never know. So don't even try to like analyze this because you're not gonna get an answer as an actor. If you have an actress, you need to have that relationship with that actress. But if you get into a situation where the actress just you're there is no chemistry, like it's just a dead fish. This thing is DOA, and she's an amazing actress, she's great, and you're an amazing actor, but the two of you just can't get it. And you're doing your best, like you're both professionals, but for whatever reason, you guys just don't like each other. Maybe you think they're flighty, maybe she thinks you're flighty, like who knows? At that point, you've got to go back and be like, and to yourself, you can't say this out loud or to anybody, but like the director cast this person for a reason. Trust their judgment. Even though I think I know that of all my script analysis, all my character analysis, all this driving around in my car, I have come up with the reason for this, and this actress just ain't getting it. She's not getting my vision. What you need to do is it's not your vision.

SPEAKER_02

That's like the scariest thing as an actor, though, is that ultimately you're there for someone else. And at the end of the day, it's not your it's ultimately not your call. I don't know. Unless you're like an A-list actor, and then at the point at that point, all the budget's kind of revolving around you anyway, and so you can get maybe get a little bit more leverage. But I'm just one I'm just curious that how especially for newer actors, because I got a lot of I got a lot of actor friends, there's there's a degree of You don't want to rely on callousness, obviously, when it comes to just getting through the production. Have you when have you run into situations like that where you've had to pull one or the other aside and just like try to sort things out?

SPEAKER_00

No.

SPEAKER_02

Really?

SPEAKER_00

There have been times when I wanted to. There is one person, and I will not say anything more than that, but there was one person, and it's like the entire group are like, we don't know what he means either. So it was a director.

SPEAKER_02

It was a director then. Because uh that sounds like it was a director, not an actor.

Chemistry With Partner And Director

SPEAKER_00

I will not say if it was director, actor, or producer, but fair enough. I'm not trying to end your career here, but you know. They're all like in the in the corner going, yeah, man, we don't get what he's saying either. Um, and at that point, what you need to do, because that is a situation you're going to have as an actor. The the thing is, jumping back to how I was talking about technology and being everybody being able to have access to high-end quality cameras more readily, is now there are more readily directors. That can be good directors, directors with training, or it can be bad directors who you know are not directors at all, who have now just got a camera and they want to film something. And you as an actor and as a professional, you need to realize these people exist, that you're going to run into them, and you need to make the best use of the time that you're there with that production. What I would recommend if you have a director like that, or I would say more director more than a cast member. I'll come back to cast in a minute. But with a director, you have to very subtly, subconsciously make it seem like it's all their idea if you want to try something new. And see if I can like, oh, that was a you know, it's like you want, like, they're off on option A.

SPEAKER_02

You have to appeal to their inner genius, you know.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, exactly. They're dead set on option A, and you're like, man, option D is so much better. But if I I've already done it like option D and they just don't like it, and it's like, how do you make them come to to be like, hey, can we just try option D? And here's a really good example of that. Johnny Depp is gonna get fired from Pirates of the Caribbean. They didn't like him, they didn't like his Jack Sparrow. They were like, dude, you're going way too out of the world.

SPEAKER_02

It was the studio, was it? It was the studio, I think. And it wasn't the director, it was the studio.

SPEAKER_00

But it was a studio, yeah. But it was somebody with a lot of power who could have said, You're gone. And he's like, I get it. Like, I see what you're saying, but just please trust me. And they're like, dude, like you gotta turn this down. He goes, Please don't have me turn it, tune it, tune it down. I'm on to something, I know I'm on to something. And what was he on to? Uh, you know, a franchise. Five films, you know, it's like he knew what he was doing, but this is Johnny Depp in studios. The actors watching this are probably like beginning actors, um, or uh indie filmmakers or even student filmmakers, and there might be a couple of like studio people in this, but I'm assuming the most majority will probably be our indie filmmakers and indie friends. And um, we don't have kind of clout with our directors. We can't just say, can you please just trust me? I got an idea.

SPEAKER_02

If you try to express that clout, you're not gonna be there very long.

SPEAKER_00

Well, and that's the thing is that it's a very especially if you have a director who's like, no. So you gotta kind of be like, it's a really hard tiptoe thing to do where you're like, try it subtly. You know, at the dinner table or lunch table or whatever, when you're like, hey, you know, um, I like the idea that you had last week, and I've kind of interpreted it to be this, and kind of lead them down to being like option D.

SPEAKER_02

You always have to phrase it like a suggestion.

SPEAKER_00

What's that?

SPEAKER_02

You always have to phrase it like a suggestion, an imperative suggestion.

Navigating Difficult Direction

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and and again, like the director's gonna be like, no. Or the director's like, yeah. And if he says no, okay, then at one point, you just gotta kind of be like, you know, I just trust the guy. Let's see what he's got. You know, I mean, he's a director, he's the guy in charge. You can throw out your ideas as much as you want, but he has been given his position for a reason, whether it's his own money and he's funding it and directing it.

SPEAKER_02

Which is a very frequent thing to happen.

SPEAKER_00

It is, it is, or financiers just really like him, and they're like, you know, we trust this guy, and he's gonna, you know, go all the way with it. And, you know, at that point, you've got to be like, look, man, I'm trying. I I don't know where I'm going with this, but um, but let's see your idea. I mean, why not? You know, let's say maybe option D is the better idea, but maybe option A really is go back to your room at the end of the night, go over the scene, and try to see it from his perspective. Maybe you're wrong. Maybe option D sounds the best. Try to get into his head and be like, hey, where is he seeing this?

SPEAKER_02

Because sometimes it's not always even uh if one decision, when it comes to the performance specifically, is the best decision for that it's isolated you know by itself, maybe the director is actually trying to go with option A because it runs better with the rest of the sequence that's getting strung. And it's more about you know the overall uh narrative and how it's stitched together.

SPEAKER_00

That is exactly the best way to put that. So when you have your actress that you're not vibing with, they sh the director, a good director, will know where the where it starts and where it ends, and all the little tiny scenes in between. Trust their vision. Because yeah, they may see that you don't, and they've been working on it for months, if not years. And now here you are coming in, you know, two or three for a two or three month-long shoot, and you you know, you have an idea of it too. But if it's not working, trust them, just see where it goes.

SPEAKER_02

When it comes, what's tell me about what you learned from the best experience you had with the director in comparison with your worst experience?

SPEAKER_00

Um, oh geez, I've I've worked, I've been very fortunate to work with some really good directors, um, both in theater and in film. Uh, Linda Lee was a great one for a soldier's secret. Steve Merlot was absolutely a I I love what he did with his Texas Chainsaw Massacre uh vision. Um Craig McLean off of uh Straw Girl, he was a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_02

I like Strawgirl was that was a disturbing film. That was one of the funnels. I mean, I I I I I have uh I advantage with indie film is that you know you always have the ability to do because mainly for financial reasons, the ability to pull off horror well and compared with when compared with other genres, unless it's pure drama and just people are you know talking.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Um I mean sorry, I didn't even interrupt you. It just popped into my mind.

SPEAKER_00

No, you're fine, you're fine. Uh Straw Girl was just a really I Straw Girl is one of those movies you just can't put into words. It was so much fun um that it was just magic.

SPEAKER_02

Because you're dancing around with a corpse at one point with it. Yes. That had to be fun, to say the least.

Best Directors Empower Specialists

SPEAKER_00

Well, of course. No, and I thought that was I mean, it was just uh there was so much emotion in it. Um, I mean, yeah, and we're getting ready to start filming a follow-up to that. Uh we'll probably start filming that in Was that a proof of concept film, by the way?

SPEAKER_02

It was a 30-minute film.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think it was a proof of concept, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Okay. That was the vibe that I got from it anyway.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And so we're gonna start going in, doing a little bit more with that one at the end of summer, I think is when we're looking at filming. Um the directors I love working with. Well, bringing back up the krill. So you got a lighting guy, you got a sound guy, you got an editor, director comes in, and he's gonna take all these people together. Now, he might know a little bit about lighting, might know some basic sound, might know some basic editing, probably for a director. But these people that he has are specialized in these fields. Of the lighting guy, I could tell you the history of lighting all the way back to the 1930s. He went to LDI, you know, he's been to like maybe even USITT, he's been to all of these like conventions and he's been studying lighting. You know, sound, that guy's probably been going off and into NAM, you know, every year to learn all the new sound stuff. And the director's like, I trust you guys. I trust you guys to know the elements of the physics and the principles of what you're doing to put this show together. And I would hope that the director would walk in and say, You're an actor. I need you to be at the same level as our lighting guy and our sound guy, but in your area of expertise. And those are the directors I love. Where it's like, we recognize you as an artist, you're gonna have a little bit of free reign on where this goes. Let's go.

SPEAKER_02

Was that the experience you had with uh Strawgirl?

Straw Girl And A Soldier’s Secret

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely, absolutely, even um A Soldier's Secret was the same way. Uh yeah, I mean I I've gotten uh with quite a few of the projects. Um, I would say probably 80% of the projects I've done have been that. To let what degree in that's a pretty good hit rate, especially for an actor. Yeah, um and you know, some directors might only give you 10% of that. You know, Linda and Craig are like, okay, we're gonna give you like the full 80% of it. Like you can you just go off and do what you think. And I remember when I so a soldier's secret, Linda was the writer-director of that, and it's based off of her son. And he had gone into the army and he came back from Iraq, and he ends up in like a uh in a physical rehab place, and it's all real. Guy's name is Carl, it's not Jackson. Uh, my character's name is Jackson, but I'm playing portraying what he went through. And um, and again, I mean, she watched all this as a mother, and her DP, director of photography, he was a family friend. He knew Carl, he knows Carl.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

So I come in, and again, Linda was just like, she's like, just go, just do what you need to do, go. I was like, great. So I went in at the physical therapy part, and she says, cut. And she goes, I have to walk away. And she's starting to cry. And I'm like, I have no idea what's going on. I'm like, oh, guess the scene went well or went really bad, one or the other. I don't know. It's either one or the other. I don't know what this means right now. She walked away, like, oh, we're so fucked. Yeah, we're talking about it.

SPEAKER_02

We're so fucked.

SPEAKER_00

So, um, and there was a creepy, eerie atmosphere to the room. Nobody said a word. And the other two producers, they also knew Carl. They're all they're all friends. And then Mike, the DP, goes, How do you know? I got I got no clue what you're talking about. How'd I know what? He goes, that thing. I'm like, Mike, I you gotta give me can you be more vague, Mike? Can you be more vague for me? Because I got no clue what you're talking about. He goes, your hand. How did you know about the hand? And I was like, I wasn't even- I was like, I need I wasn't paying attention to my hand. I have no idea what you're talking about right now. And he goes, your hand and your thumb were moving the exact same way his was.

SPEAKER_02

That's very specific.

When Character Work Becomes Uncanny

SPEAKER_00

And he goes, How did you know that? And I said, I didn't even know I was moving my hand. And he showed me back the video footage, and my hand was, it was like had a really bizarre, unique twitch to it. When you are so in tune with your character, it's such a different feeling, and you can't put it into words. You're I want to say your character takes over. That would be the best way to put it, and it's completely wrong. Um, I think that, you know, acting, you're not being somebody else. You can only be you. Yeah, you can only be you. You can be you in that situation of the scene or of the script. You know, if you're gonna be a killer, what would you be like as a killer if you were a killer? You don't really kill people, but if I was a killer, I'd you know analyze the situation of the victims and how they'd go. You can only be you. This is your instrument, this is what you have to use. Your past life uh, yeah, your life experiences that you've had is where you draw up your emotion from. That's what I think. And yet, here I am about ready to just completely be a hypocrite by saying the character took over me in that situation. So maybe I am hippocratic, maybe I am wrong with this, but there is a point when you are so in tune with that character, it blends perfectly. And when you can find a director who allows you to have that much creativity over the character, that's the those are the directors I love. And I hope that answer I hope that was the long walking descript or definition to the question you asked.

SPEAKER_02

It was apt. It was apt, I'll give you that. I wasn't expecting um the the degree of uncanny um recollection when it came to you know the parallels that you were portraying with that character. Um stuff like experiences like that don't come very often, from what I've heard. They don't. Like it's it's a it's a very, for lack of better terms, it's it's a very spiritual experience when something that involuntary happens to an actor and then to have that type of reaction from everyone else.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah, and then you can't call me for as an actor. That that's that's the goal. Stuff like that. When you have that kind of stuff happen, that's when you can be like, yep, I have succeeded with that with that process, with that shot.

SPEAKER_02

What were the conversations in this uh for this production that led up to that um toward that event happening? That did you sense that this that you would be able to later on really dig into the character? Was it just a level of trust that they had with you? Or how where what happened in the behind the scenes leading up to this that created that environment for for that performance?

Rapid Recast And Deep Research

SPEAKER_00

Well, I wasn't supposed to have that part. Um, she had approached me to play the part of Bill, uh, which is actually Carl's best friend. And it was like, oh, he's in the film. It ended up going to a very talented actor uh named Travis Hancock, and um, but their lead actor dropped out about a week before the show.

SPEAKER_02

Well, she'll have it when that happens.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, and I'm like, seriously, I so she just hits me up on Facebook and she's like, Look, would you mind do you have a problem taking a leading role? And I was like, Yeah, great, you have a week to film or to get ready. And I'm like, Well, this is fast. Um, and again, just like how I had said before, where I just I'll spend such a small fraction of time with the script, but I will spend a vast majority of time studying the character and the script in my car driving around Los Angeles, and that was the prep work that I had done. Um, I mean, it was always I did uh watch as many movies about Iraq and wars and fighting um as I could get my hands on. Um I remember watching Hamburger Hill and Full Metal Jacket when I was very young. And they were just disturbing films to like an eight-year-old. My cousins were awesome growing up. That's how they ended up getting that one into movies.

SPEAKER_02

You had some very influential cousins, if that's the case.

SPEAKER_00

I had some very fun cousins.

SPEAKER_02

The kind of cousins that your mother warns you about.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, yes, totally. And um, and I was like, this movie is just like this movie is like weird. And I did my entire life like these movies are weird and they're not cool, and this is not good. But then I get cast in a movie and I'm like, I have seven days. You better start researching this. So I watched all of those. I watched Jacob's Ladder, which is I think Jacob's Ladder was probably oddly enough, one of the biggest influences of Jackson because it's shown what he was like in his head. Uh, did you ever see Jacob's Ladder?

SPEAKER_02

I have not. I'm learning about this for the first time. Um I've seen Full Model Jacket, but not that one.

Memorization Tactics And Script Changes

SPEAKER_00

So, uh, spoiler alert for anybody who has not seen the 1980s film, um, Jacob's Ladder, uh, it has Tim Robbins in it, and basically he's in, I believe it was Vietnam or the Korean War, and he comes back and he's now home. And there are all these demons around him. And everywhere he looks is just like shadow people of just chaos. All of his friends who came back start dying around him. I mean, it's a it's a very dark film. Um and uh and I enjoyed the ending of it, but it was not a happy ending. Um, and I was like, this is where this guy is in his head. When we hit the third act of a soldier's secret, this is where we are. Do that. Be there. And um, and so I'd drive around LA. Like, how do I do that? How do I be there? What is this? What is that? And again, just analyzing.

SPEAKER_02

What would be your advice to um younger actors when it comes to getting through memorizing long monologues or dialogues that you have to do for a particular shoot?

SPEAKER_00

One sentence at a time. Take it one line at a time. I have two-page monologue. Great. Work on one line at a time. Work on that one sentence, do it till you've got it flawless, move on to the next one until you got them flawless, run them both at the same time, run them till they're flawless, move on to your third line. Don't look at I mean, because I've done, you know, nine or ten, I've done single man shows where I'm the only one in the film. Um, it's a lot of dialogue. Don't let it scare you, don't be intimidated. Um take it one line at a time.

SPEAKER_02

Think of it like through like script changes that happen on the day of or the day before, where you get that one writer-director that's just like, I think I can always make it better, and then you have to pivot and adapt on the spot.

SPEAKER_00

And that's gonna happen. Um, if you know your lines so well, try and grab that change. Because if they're changing it, usually on average, they're not changing the entire scene. Not all of it. They might change like two or three or four of your lines in that scene. Remember the ones that you had already, see that they're still there, and then just work on the add added ones. Because you've already got the stuff that was there, you've been working on that all night. Well, now they're changing it on you. Now they're you have six lines, well, four of them are now new. Well, you've got those two, don't worry about the two, now just focus on the four. Um, you're probably gonna get that, you're not gonna get that the second that you start filming. You're gonna get that a little bit in advance.

SPEAKER_02

Have you been have you gotten a script yet when you're reading the dialogue, and like the vision is there, but the dialogue's not the greatest. What goes through your mind when it comes to being able to elevate basic or mid-dialogue to be able to actually breathe life into the scene?

SPEAKER_00

Um, I mean, that one gets kind of difficult as well. And then also in a play, you always memorize word for word. In a film, you can alter it a little bit. You want to keep the character. Um, so sometimes like I try to memorize word for word, but every now and then in a situation like you've just said where the writing's not quite lining up, um, make it be your own. But make it be consistent with the character.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

Elevating Dialogue And Dyslexia Hack

SPEAKER_00

And and with the script. Don't be like, don't, you know, don't be on a ranch talking about giraffes when you're on a ranch in Montana. There's no giraffes. Like, don't change the animals just for fun because you thought it'd be neat. Um so one thing too is when I was in college, I'm extremely extremely painfully, literally painfully dyslexic. Um, and so when I got into college, I had a teacher by the name of Peter Rivanoff, and I and a very good director, and I remember walking to him going, I'm afraid of this. How I I want to be an actor, I want to make a career in Hollywood. And I have a hard, a painfully, like literally painfully difficult time reading. What do I do? I'm scared. And he goes, Do you have your car keys in your pocket? I said, Yeah. And he goes, give them to me. Alright. So I took the 10. He's like, step back about, I don't know, five or ten feet. Alright. And he just kind of gently tosses the keys. He goes, catch them. Catch them. And he goes, that's how you get around it. He's like, where were you looking? Were you looking at your hand to make sure you caught the keys? I was like, no. He goes, you were looking at the keys, right? Like, yeah, I'm looking at the keys because I want to know where they're going. He goes, yeah, your hand will just go there. The keys are the character. Your hand is the dialogue. As long as you can stay focused on the goal, you'll be fine. I have yet to have. I've had one or two instances out of all the films I've done where they're like, you did you said and but not but.

SPEAKER_02

Oh gosh, those are the worst.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I did. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02

Um it was a writer-director, too, right?

SPEAKER_00

I I don't remember. I just remember it happening, and it was happening a lot. Yeah, it was a writer director. That's right.

SPEAKER_02

It was a writer-director. It's always the writer-directors, though. It's like, no, we're gonna say it like this, because you know, uh, they wrote it, so you know, obviously, pure genius written under the words. It has to be exactly the way it is.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and it's such a small thing. Is the audience gonna care? Is the audience gonna walk out going, that had a lot of emotion? That's that that was just an amazing, amazing project that was not just entertaining but educational. You know, I'm glad that we spent the money on this. I'm glad we got away from you know from the house for a couple of hours and had a nice little night. But that actor said the word and and not but. The whole movie's ruined. It's like, no, nobody ever comes out saying that. It doesn't have an overall effect of the project.

Human Messiness And Likable Villains

SPEAKER_02

That's like the equivalent of when your mom, when you're a kid, goes you to uh your company's coming over. You need to go clean your room. Make sure you clean under your bed too. It's like, why does this matter? It doesn't matter. They're not gonna see it, they're not gonna notice it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. Are we giving them like the guided house tour of under my bed? Like we have weird friends if that's the case. Like we guess we need a better group of friends, possibly. Um, but yeah, I you know, it's like don't worry about to the new actors, just worry more about getting the emotion and the theme and the point across.

SPEAKER_02

Then what was the best piece of direction you've you've gotten to date? Or at least that sticks out in your head.

SPEAKER_00

I mean I mean, I would probably have to default back to Mr. Rivonoff, throwing those keys. Because it was it was perfect, it was intentional, and it was just like it put all the pressure off of me. Where it's like, don't worry, just have it happen. And I think that's I think that's the advice that I would give to that to that question is don't put yourself under all of that pressure to be perfect. No, right off the bat, it's not gonna be. You are never gonna have a perfect show, just not gonna happen. What you can do is your best. If you sneeze during an audition, nobody cares. You can walk in out of the audition completely, oh my god, I just sneeze. I can't believe I did that. It's fine, it's human, and that's what their people are looking for. The directors and the producers, they're looking for you to be human.

SPEAKER_02

Unless you're a villain, maybe they want something a little more inhuman, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00

But yeah, and but even then, like, you know, it's like your villains need to be likable.

SPEAKER_02

That's true. The best villains are likable, like the Joker. We all love the Joker.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, we all love no great example. But I mean, like, even like Pablo Pablo Escobar in Narco, during like the last few episodes where he's all by himself, standing by himself by the pool, you're kind of like, I kind of feel bad for this guy. And you're like, no, I've watched the entire season. This guy's evil, like, this is not a good guy.

SPEAKER_02

Well, that's a great example though, when it comes to those types of characters, is that in order I think my theory is that in order to actually cause a person an audience's mind to be able to sync up and detach, there's an unconscious confusion when it comes to their allegiances, uh, when it comes uh when they're viewing the story and listening to the characters, because they're wrestling with what they're trying to decide about somebody, and now they've forgotten that they just build their popcorn because they've they've gotten lost in it.

Aesthetic Distance And Great Films

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. The aesthetic distance is what is what that's called. You know, it's like where the audience is a part of the show. And you know, if you're watching a show and you're like 20 minutes in going, yeah, I'm just still sitting here in a theater. None of these people I don't care about a single actor I'm watching on screen. I don't care about the story, I don't care about any of this stuff. Your aesthetic distance is pretty much non-existent. You're not in the film. Whereas if you go see a really good movie, you're in. Like you're just like this whole thing is amazing. Like, I I forget that I'm sitting in a movie theater. I'm actually like like Tombstone, I think is a great movie that a lot of people can be like, that was awesome. Whereas like the movie ends, like, oh, two hours just left. I never thought two hours would be over already.

SPEAKER_02

That's the best time.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, Shaw Shank Redemption's another one where it's like that's a two and a half hour, three-hour movie, and nobody that's like a 15-minute film because you walk out going, I just I was in the entire time. I can't believe two and a half hours went by. It felt like 15 minutes. You know, you have that at that distance where you're in the film and you're just you're you're fully engulfed, you're 100% committed. Wherever we go is wherever we go. And I'm in, and I can't wait to see what happens next.

SPEAKER_02

Well, Bill, thanks for coming on the show. I love hearing your experiences, and I'm sure there's a lot of advice that you know you gave a lot of people are gonna be able to take away from. Do you have any final thoughts you want to leave with the audience?

SPEAKER_00

Um, to all of the new filmmakers, I would say don't be afraid about making mistakes. Make them. Learn from them. Always learn from them. But don't be afraid if you screw up. It's the only way you're gonna learn. Um, yeah, so just accept that.

SPEAKER_02

Bill, thanks again.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.