Power, Allegations, and Proof: The Eric Swalwell Case & How Sexual Assault Investigations Really Work

In this episode of The Hidden Threads Podcast, Macky and Jus break down the recent allegations surrounding Eric Swalwell—but this isn’t just about headlines.

This is about how cases like this are actually investigated.

We go beyond the noise and get into:

•  What multiple accusations really mean from an investigative standpoint 
•  The difference between allegations, evidence, and proof
•  How digital evidence (phones, messages, timelines) can make or break a case 
•  Why most people misunderstand how sexual assault investigations unfold 
•  The legal and ethical boundaries investigators must operate within 

We also talk candidly about:

•  False assumptions clients bring into these cases 
•  What can and cannot be proven 
•  And how high-profile cases differ from real-world investigations happening every day 

This episode pulls back the curtain on one of the most misunderstood areas of investigative work—where emotion, law, and evidence collide.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

All right, we're recording, Juice. All right. Right on your face. On your face. We were talking here before we got started about a guy I had on the show. His name is Josh Abrams.

SPEAKER_00 0:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:13

He's out of Massachusetts, so he doesn't sound like he's from around here.

SPEAKER_00 0:16

So he was actually here?

SPEAKER_01 0:18

Yeah, he came here and did two episodes. I haven't posted them yet. Because I've been lazy. I'm a lazy bad person, Jews. That happens. But anyway. Anyway, he's a First Amendment auditor. You ever heard of those guys? Most of them I can't stand. He takes he takes a little deeper though. So we got a case where a woman asked to see a lawyer a bunch of times. Right. And they said no. They said, No, you can't see a lawyer. Right? And then they take that took that evidence and they're trying to prosecute another woman with the statement. Right. So he took it into the town hall. That's the one we investigated. Yeah. Yeah. He took it into the town hall and stood there and read it aloud. The her interrogation? Yeah. Really? On you did it YouTube alive on YouTube doing it. Right. They couldn't make him leave. No, they can't. He's a public forum. He wasn't breaking anything or hitting anybody in the face. He was just standing there in public on video. Yeah. So now they came out and tried to make him leave and he didn't leave.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

You can't do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:21

They can ask you nicely, but you don't have to. You don't have to. Yeah. But he read the whole thing. All 300 and something pages. You've read it. Yeah, oh yeah. Right there on the live. And that's what he does. Uh he brings attention to some of these cases where it's bull crap, you know. And so and we've dealt with some of those before. Right. But that's good.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

I didn't know he actually was here doing that, or I may have skipped work that night and attended.

SPEAKER_01 1:43

He did it during the middle of the day, but uh it was cool. The uh receptionist didn't know the rules, so she was trying to get him to leave. But the mayor came down and was like kind of hanging out. The mayor knew the rules.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:55

But uh I thought it was cool. You're gonna be a First Amendment auditor, Juice?

SPEAKER_00 2:00

No, I'm not. I like a lot of the First Amendment guys and girls. I like a lot of them, but there's some of them they're just out antagonizing and creating problems, and it's it's just they're annoying.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

Some of them just start a conversation with a police officer to antagonize. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 2:16

And they're the ones I can't stand. If you're out doing justice with the First Amendment audit, I get it. You know, have at it. I think it's a beautiful thing. Welcome to America. We live in the greatest country that allows you to do that.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

So I think if there's an incident, yes, bring it attention. Oh, absolutely. But don't go out looking for it.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

Yeah, if you're just going out to stir a pot, just shut your pie hole and stay home.

SPEAKER_01 2:39

A cop's sitting there eating a hamburger and you ask him a question and he asks you the wrong question back.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

But they do it to other people too that are just trying to walk like in the post office or walk in a store and they got that camera in their face. I'll sit in jail because you're not gonna put that camera in my face and be obnoxious.

SPEAKER_01 2:58

You're gonna own the phone? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

I'm gonna slap your chicklets clear out of your mouth and then I'll go sit down there and wait for bail.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

Just go hang out. Yeah, that's coming.

SPEAKER_00 3:06

Yeah. And they all know me, so they all like you then at the county?

SPEAKER_01 3:11

Every one of them. Oh, yeah, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_00 3:13

Oh no, they do. The inmates not so much, but all the officers? Yeah, DeCab County or Jackson?

SPEAKER_01 3:18

No, Jackson. DeCab don't like me so much.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

I stay out of De Cab because I'm not a big DeCab County person. Right. You're a Higdon guy.

SPEAKER_01 3:26

Yeah, well, close enough. Higdon, man. We used to play North Sand Mountain. You know where that is, the school, right? Yeah, I know where that's at. The school. Yeah. They're in our like area district or whatever. So I remember driving over there when I was a young kid, like high schooler. Yeah. I thought we was in the in the bus for like four hours. Really? It seemed so long to get over there. Yeah, 40 minutes. Yeah. But you there's nothing. There's nothing in between here and there, really. Once you go past McDonald's and Rangel, that's it.

SPEAKER_00 3:55

So yeah. Oh, I know. But that's why I try and stay out of DeCalp County. I stay over in Jackson County.

SPEAKER_01 4:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

But I'm far enough out, I don't have to really deal with anybody. Is Jackson getting a new jail? No. No, maybe Marshall County is getting a new jail. Maybe Marshall. Jackson County isn't.

SPEAKER_01 4:11

Marshall's weird. Like they have to march them across the road every morning. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:15

Jackson County does need a new one. Yeah. I I wish the commission would get together and come up with funding because they really they need something. It's it's pretty run down. And the staff actually does they do very well down there with what little they have and for as little pay as what they're getting. Right. They they really should be paid more.

SPEAKER_01 4:34

Yeah. How's the plumbing and all? That building's old. I've been here.

SPEAKER_00 4:38

It's terrible. The maintenance guys that are in there, man, they're they're awesome.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

It's like putting a band-aid on everything.

SPEAKER_00 4:43

Yeah, but and they're trying, they're working, constantly working, fixing stuff here, and then five more things happen. So the guys that are doing maintenance, they all do a spectacular job down at the jail down there. Right.

SPEAKER_01 4:56

Now the jail in the Cab County is pretty nice. It's newer, you know. Yeah. So it's not as some of those you're talking, we're talking some of these were built in like the 30s. Yeah. I'm not talking 2030s either. I'm talking 1930s. The early 1900s. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:12

Yeah, it's it needs Jackson County needs help.

SPEAKER_01 5:15

Yeah. So the topic today, it doesn't have has nothing to do with jail.

SPEAKER_00 5:20

That's okay that's terrible. I love jails.

SPEAKER_01 5:23

Maybe a little First Amendment.

SPEAKER_00 5:24

Right.

SPEAKER_01 5:25

But we're to we're talking about Eric Swalwell, Fang Fang. Yeah. Former representative Swalwell and his problems with sexual assault he's having. All right. Some of them may just be he was cheating on his wife, but there seems like there's some of them where there's some evidence there.

SPEAKER_00 5:42

There's it's legit.

SPEAKER_01 5:43

Yeah, where he may he may drugs some people and drugging them. I mean, rape is bad enough. Drugging somebody, they get you with attempted murder on that, right?

SPEAKER_00 5:55

They can, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:56

Because you don't, you're not a doctor, you don't know what you're administering those people, right? Ain't that the point? Ain't that how they get you? Yeah. Now a lot of this is California, so they anything goes there pretty much.

SPEAKER_00 6:07

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:08

So we'll see. But uh they're saying he's getting some federal stuff too. I don't know what they would charge him with there.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

I don't know either. That'd be something worth looking into just for your own information.

SPEAKER_01 6:19

If he solicited over the phone, maybe something like that.

SPEAKER_00 6:22

Phone computer.

SPEAKER_01 6:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

Because you know how they do it now. Oh, I'm gonna sit here and you know chat and send naked pictures. Yeah. He's a scumbag to begin with.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

I didn't like him to begin with. Um, you know, remember Kavanaugh, Judge Kavanaugh, yeah. He bashed him saying that he was a rapist with a sledgehammer. A rapist, blah, blah, blah. And at the same time, he's doing it. You know, swallows doing it. And of course, you got the Fang Fang incident where he was sleeping with a Chinese spa.

SPEAKER_00 6:49

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 6:49

As a representative.

SPEAKER_00 6:50

Yes. I wonder what he was given. Well, I know what he's given her, but I'm thinking intel-wise, what he was giving her.

SPEAKER_01 6:57

I'm sure she heard conversations on the phone, meetings, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 7:01

Absolutely. But I hate I hate to say it. It's for me, you you know, I'm a Roman Catholic. I was brought up that way. That's the same way with Catholics. They're your biggest hypocrites going. Right.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

That's why churches exist because hypocrites.

SPEAKER_00 7:16

Yeah. Yeah. I'm telling you, man. They stand there and you're blasphemous, you're this, you're that, and they do the same thing. They're doing the exact same thing.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

Yeah, I remember that big scandal with the priest back in early 2000s.

SPEAKER_00 7:28

Oh, yeah. The the diocese up in Pennsylvania that I I was in that church and that that diocese, they were the worst. We had pedophile priests right there in our parish.

SPEAKER_01 7:39

Yeah, dudes popping up out of nowhere. Hey, yeah, you raped me. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:42

And I'm pretty sure they they the one friend of mine that committed suicide was because he was molested by the the the parish priest.

SPEAKER_01 7:50

He was having some emotional issues, obviously.

SPEAKER_00 7:53

Um it's it's hypocritical. It is. Swalwell's no different. But if you look at all the representatives and and and all the the senators, and if you look at them, and I'm not saying Democrat or Republican, I'm saying look at them all. They're some of the biggest hypocrites because they're doing the crap that they're pointing the finger at everybody else for doing, just like old Swalwell.

SPEAKER_01 8:16

Fang fang.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:17

Fang fang. He was just boisterous about you know saying Trump telling Trump a pedo and all that kind of stuff. And now here we go. So now in the military, I got put on some of these where we had to investigate sexual assault.

unknown 8:31

Right.

SPEAKER_01 8:31

You ever dealt with that? You dealt with it a policeman.

SPEAKER_00 8:34

Yeah. As a cop, we we had a couple guys I was stationed with wound up getting hammered for it.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

Yeah. And they're very difficult. The further away you are from the incident and talking time, it's almost impossible to get a conviction. Yeah. Because evidence goes away and it turns into he said, she said, hearsay and everything else.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

And if you don't do your police work to the best of your ability, then it'll do the same thing in a civilian world.

SPEAKER_01 8:57

Now, what makes it easier now is the digital footprint. Yeah, text messages, locations, those kind of things helps. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:03

Back then we didn't have all that.

SPEAKER_01 9:05

But physical evidence goes away, deteriorates quickly in the human body. And if a lot of let's talk about what it ain't always women getting sexually assaulted, but let's just say women.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:15

The longer they wait to go to the doctor to get a rape kit. Yes. And here's my issue too. You're a woman that just went through trauma. Who wants to go through that, you know, you're going through the rape kit thing, which is very invasive.

SPEAKER_00 9:27

Yes, is that in itself is another traumatic experience on top of the traumatic experience you just had.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

Right. I mean, I know doctors and nurses are trained how to handle it. I've been around that. Of course, I went in there, but I've been in the building, and they're they talked to them initially before they went back to the and they handle it very well. They've been trained in it. Most of them have. You know, they're very compassionate and understand what's going on. But it is a traumatic experience. And a lot of women are like, I'm just gonna forget about this. You know, try to forget about it.

SPEAKER_00 10:02

Once that happens, I you to me, you have PTSD, it never goes away from something like that.

SPEAKER_01 10:08

Right. And these girls, one of the women at Swalwell said that he drugged her and she couldn't move her arms and legs.

SPEAKER_00 10:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

What kind of drug is that? I don't know. Like Roofy Plus? I don't know. I don't that we call it a hot Cosby. Hot Cosby. Okay. Is that the new Roofy word? Yeah, hot Cosby. Well, he got out, he got out of trouble, didn't he?

SPEAKER_00 10:27

Oh yeah. He'll be putting it in your puddin.

SPEAKER_01 10:29

But well, because of a technical thing. They violated some kind of constitutional right.

SPEAKER_00 10:34

Yeah. Again, you always have that scumbag attorney that knows their client is guilty and they get them off on a technicality.

SPEAKER_01 10:41

Yeah. That's America.

SPEAKER_00 10:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:43

America.

SPEAKER_00 10:44

Yeah. That's why I to me, you don't hardly see any politicians getting convicted of anything.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

They all cover for each other. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 10:51

We had like all these sexual assaults. They wanted to release what is that, all the the congressmen or congresswomen that had sexual charges against them. And they voted no. All of them, but 65 voted no. We don't want to release that information. Oh, charges against them for sexual complaints, basically. Oh yeah. But 65 of them said, Yeah, let's let's go ahead and turn them out. And all the rest of them went, oh no.

SPEAKER_01 11:18

So that's got Republicans in there too.

SPEAKER_00 11:19

If it's Republicans, Independents, Democrats, all of them.

SPEAKER_01 11:23

Because there's 400 and something representatives.

SPEAKER_00 11:26

And 65 of them said, yep, let's do it. All the rest said, Oh God, no. Okay. That's a clue for all you people out there that vote.

SPEAKER_01 11:34

Yep. That's a horrible. I mean, I got two daughters and a wife. And the tr the trauma it puts on a family. You know what I mean? I know they physic they're the ones getting physically assaulted, but it's not just the trauma on one person, it's what it does to the entire family. Yeah. Because I would want to go kill the person personally if it was my family member.

SPEAKER_00 11:55

Yeah, I'm not going to make that statement on a request.

SPEAKER_01 11:58

I said I would want to. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 12:00

Now that person may wind up missing, but it won't be because of me.

SPEAKER_01 12:04

Me and Juice might have gone on a vacation somewhere.

SPEAKER_00 12:09

Yeah, we went fishing. You were showing me how to snorkel and dive and all that.

SPEAKER_01 12:13

We wanna might have gone hunting in the mountains.

SPEAKER_00 12:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:15

Any of those things.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

It happens.

SPEAKER_01 12:16

Yeah. We got to make sure we get our hunting license and fishing license. Exactly. We get discounts on them too, by the way. That's right. You know you get free national park access? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 12:26

Just because we're old and broken down.

SPEAKER_01 12:28

I mean, it costs for like a total of seven dollars anyway.

SPEAKER_00 12:32

We're very limited on what we can and can't do.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

So here's the thing about Yellowstone. We're changing subjects. But Yellowstone, like if you go out, you go in and pay your seven bucks, right? And you want to go out and come back in the next day, you've got to pay another seven bucks. Yeah, not us. I got the little card I just got. I got it too. I feel so cool riding through there, you know. Cha-ching. Back to the sexual assault stuff. You know, it took when I would we used to look at these, and we'd have somebody come forward 12 years later and say, Colonel such and such sexually assaulted me. Now we would investigate it. We'd go down and ask questions. We'd go ask the colonel, and of course he would say not saying anything without my lawyer. Right. Yeah, obviously. And some people are dead, some people you can't find them. There's no physical evidence at all. It's all gone. And it makes it difficult to get a prosecution, you know, the longer you time-wise get away from the incident.

SPEAKER_00 13:26

No, now a lot of the times that I've noticed that it's usually uh well, it this has gotta come out wrong no matter how I say it. It's usually people in the instructor categories, they're on I and I or something, they're you know, they're teaching students, and they'll take new recruits that are just coming in and they'll befriend them and hang out and be cool and wind up having sex with them. To me, that's way crossing a line. If you're like us, if we're on I and I staff, any any recruits that come in here, any any newbies, rooks come in, they're off limits. Right.

SPEAKER_01 14:05

You're not dating those people out in the fleet.

SPEAKER_00 14:07

If it's consensual, you meet at a club or whatever, that's fine. But when you're in that position where you have authority over them like that, to me, it it's wrong. And it's happened to people I know.

SPEAKER_01 14:19

Recruiters, army recruiters are the worst. Yeah, well, and some of them get high school kids, which makes it even even underage, you know, makes it um bad news.

SPEAKER_00 14:30

But you're you're trusted, just like congressmen and stuff. You're you're you have that public trust, and then you betray that.

SPEAKER_01 14:37

It's like a teacher, you know, yeah, doing it with students happens. And if you're in a leadership position, in my opinion, if you're a recruiter, I and I staff, because you're usually a sergeant, staff sergeant, or above, right?

SPEAKER_00 14:51

Right.

SPEAKER_01 14:51

And then they use that leverage, they say, Oh, I'm cool. Uh have sex with me, and I'll make sure you get some perks. Yeah. They use they push that, right?

SPEAKER_00 14:59

Yeah, and I know people that it's it's happened to.

SPEAKER_01 15:03

And then it doesn't work out typically.

SPEAKER_00 15:06

Yeah, and they're like, Oh, yeah, I thought he liked me. No, he was your instructor. Why would you I mean to me that that's way over the boundary for anybody? Yeah. Let me see here. I got some notes to use. Especially if you're a president and you have an intern.

SPEAKER_01 15:21

Yep. So Swalwell, his goes from 2018 to 2024. Now, the problem with that, he's been married the whole time. He has children. Well, obviously, it's not a problem for him. Well, I think it's gonna cost him. He's a pretty wealthy guy. Good. I think he was a traitor or something like that. But uh, you know, but the big thing they're finding, you know, they get witnesses, obviously, and then the text messages. Now, is that gonna be enough to get him convicted?

SPEAKER_00 15:49

No. Because you'll have some scumbag attorney find a technicality.

SPEAKER_01 15:54

But there's no physical evidence either, so other than a video of them walking into a hotel.

SPEAKER_00 15:58

No, but it that's fine. But also, you could have you could be charged or found guilty of a murder and they have no body. So I s I I think it's still a viable outcome.

SPEAKER_01 16:08

It depends on what the you gotta get in front of a jury, right? Yeah. So now how do you get convicted without a body juice? Used to be back in the day.

SPEAKER_00 16:15

It's an overwhelming pile of circumstantial evidence.

SPEAKER_01 16:20

Back in the day, they never convicted anybody without a body, but no, no body, no murder. Now we got electronic data floating around that's saying you were here, there, turn your phone off. We got video view over here, you know. Yeah. In 1940, there was no you could technology couldn't follow you around, right?

SPEAKER_00 16:36

So technology is great, but it can also be a bad thing if you're a scumbag. If you're trying to commit a crime, right.

SPEAKER_01 16:43

But yeah, he tried to another thing they've it's come out is Swalwell allegedly tried to erase a lot of digital data as well. Allegedly. Yeah. It just doesn't go away. You're gonna find they're gonna find something. Yeah, you got a nerd sitting at a desk like this. It's just digging around. Digging around, asking questions. So I'm not the greatest digital investigator. No, but you're you're pretty nerdy. But I will I just kind of stumble around till I run into something, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 17:12

Yeah, but you you do that quite well, quite frequently, though.

SPEAKER_01 17:15

So but yeah, the uh I don't come a I don't come across as your typical IT guy. No, you don't. I've got investigative experience plus IT. So which is a good combo, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 17:28

Yeah, but uh but you'll also go down that rabbit hole.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

Next thing I know, it'll be three in the morning, and I'm like, whoa, what happened?

SPEAKER_00 17:35

Yeah, and it doesn't matter what rabbit hole it is, if it's if it pops up, you'll go down it. You'll find stuff.

SPEAKER_01 17:40

Right. Yeah, that's all you're doing. It's no different than looking for something out in the streets, right? You're just in the digital streets, that's all it is. But yeah, that doesn't make him it doesn't look good either when you go and well, let me delete all this stuff and throw these phones away.

SPEAKER_00 17:54

Well, no. Apparently it's not I mean it's it's gonna add up. Right. We'll see.

SPEAKER_01 17:59

The girl that did the news conference seemed like she was pretty legit, so the other day. Yeah, the main, the most violent one, I guess you would say. Now you got other ones coming out. He's turning into like the Tiger Woods of politicians. As people come out of the woodwork, it's gonna come out.

SPEAKER_00 18:12

It just you know, I I hate to say it. I've dealt with women that that are victims, and it takes a while for them to be able to come out with this, be able to talk about it. But once they come out and it they show that strength, then it gives hope to somebody else to say, hey, I she did this, I can do this. Right. And then it snowballs from there, and I think it's a great thing that they do it. More women should come forward as soon as it happens, but it's very traumatic and oh yeah, I get that could be embarrassing and PTSD, all those things.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

And it's gonna be and if it's gonna be made public, you gotta talk about your body, sexuality, all those weird things that you don't want to talk about in public, you know.

SPEAKER_00 18:56

But yeah, just look at me. Yeah, I don't want to talk about my body, so just be glad you don't have mine.

SPEAKER_01 19:02

Really?

SPEAKER_00 19:02

Oh yeah, I look like an umpalumpa.

SPEAKER_01 19:04

Umpa loompa.

SPEAKER_00 19:05

Yeah, I was gonna say male model, but uh yeah, for an umpalumpa.

SPEAKER_01 19:09

I'm surprised you haven't been sexually assaulted more, juice. I know. We shouldn't make light of that topic, but anyways.

SPEAKER_00 19:14

But there there's women out there I I wish more women would come forward sooner when this stuff happens.

SPEAKER_01 19:22

Right.

SPEAKER_00 19:23

Because then you wouldn't have these scumbags getting away with this stuff, and there's possibly some physical evidence that would that's the worst when you get DNA and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_01 19:31

Oh, yeah. Uh fingerprints on stuff, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 19:34

You can get fingerprints on skin.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

Yeah. Hotel room before it's clean, those kind of things. Yeah. You know what I mean? So yeah, and we'll see what happens, but he's in a pickle. He had to resign. Woo-hoo. He bothered me a little bit because he looked like he needed to shower all the time.

SPEAKER_00 19:50

Yeah, he always looks dirty, doesn't he? Like there's some kind of ring of scum on him.

SPEAKER_01 19:54

Like he'd been digging in the coal mine or something and he just put his suit on.

SPEAKER_00 19:57

I'm like, Hey, hey, hey, don't pick on the coal mine.

SPEAKER_01 20:00

That's where I'm from. They got dirty faces, though. Um you got swallow people up there that probably like them.

SPEAKER_00 20:06

No, no. Oh, well, I don't know. And if they like them, I don't want to talk to them. They're on the other side of the street, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:13

So all right, Gs. Well, we hammered that one down. Anything else you about the sexual assault stuff?

SPEAKER_00 20:19

No, just come forward sooner.

SPEAKER_01 20:20

Yeah, it helps with the evidence and yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:23

It just it helps you to come out and and come forth sooner.

SPEAKER_01 20:28

So absolutely. All right, that's all we got. We'll be back with another episode in just a bit.