Scammers, Grifters, and the Psychology of the Con

Scammers don’t just steal money—they manipulate trust, emotion, urgency, and fear. In this episode of Hidden Threads, we break down real-world scams, the psychology behind why smart people still get caught, red flags investigators look for, and how fraudsters build believable lies that can cost victims everything. From romance scams and identity theft to online fraud and professional grifters, we unpack how the con really works. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Juice.

SPEAKER_03 0:01

Macy.

SPEAKER_00 0:02

We're recording again. Awesome. Massive sound issues today. Yes. You know what? I tried to go to those new mics and it didn't work. So we're back to this is still high tech to me. Really? Yeah. The mixer? Yeah, because I'm not a techie guy. Okay. Those little lapel things, I'm I wanted to take them out and stomp them, but they're about 500 bucks. Are you serious? Someone sent them back to Amazon.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

Those little ones I bought when I go out and do interviews.

SPEAKER_00 0:30

These are $29 and they work great. These are supposed to be high speed, low drag, all that stuff. I got little $30 ones that work perfect. I guess I could keep them for interviews, could I? Yeah. I don't know. I never tried to hook them to the phone. I'll try that out and see how it works. Yeah, mine worked great. I don't know, man. They drove me crazy. You know, you came over early today. We thought we were going to get to record early.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

But the anyway, the thought we're going to get to record early with the sound issues.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

I wanted to know hear about your dog.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

I don't have a dog. My dog passed away. You need one. No, I don't.

SPEAKER_00 1:05

You need a dog.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

I don't need a dog.

SPEAKER_00 1:07

I don't need a wife. What? I'm gonna get you a dog. No, you're not. Yeah. I don't want a dog. I'm gonna bring one. I'm gonna go to the pound, get some poor little thing, and just drop it off one day. That's pretty messed up because you know I will take the dog in, and I don't want a dog. What kind of dog was it that came to your house last night? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

It was just this little mutt looking thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:32

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 1:33

Mutt little bitty one?

SPEAKER_01 1:34

No, it was tiny, it was maybe eight pounds, ten pounds, if that. Right. Huh. My cat wanted to kill it though. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

Yeah, she was not happy. Have her tail all fuzzed out and stuff. Yeah. So that's funny. No dogs, no wives. Alright. So tell me, you guys are going to New Orleans. Yeah, we're planning on it. Me and my daughter. What's so what's the plan down there? We're gonna go down and check out all the ghost stuff. Okay. So we went in Pigeon Forge, they have a crime museum. It's pretty good, man. I've been in there.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

Yeah, she wants to go up there and do that. There's a serial killer thing going on over in Atlanta, some kind of show or something.

SPEAKER_00 2:14

She wants to go to that. So the crime museum has the uh has some of the original artifacts from stuff. Yeah. Pretty good. Uh it's kind of creepy though. They start like it. They start way back, like ancient times, you know, medieval. Yeah. She worked her way up to modern times. She'll like it. She's in all that stuff. Forensics kid. She still wants to be a forensics analyst and all that stuff. Yeah. Is she going to college for it still? Yeah. Good. Alright. So today, Juice, what let's see what we're talking about first. Since you already got one.

unknown 2:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:45

I mean, you've you only got one. Yeah, I got one. So let's talk about romance scams that destroyed lives. That's called marriage. The sucker born every day, right? Yes. Yes. So these are the ones we've dealt with these a little bit on a smaller scale. Yes. The where people get online and start dating these people, and these they never see their faces, they never see them on video, they never see them on person. Right. In person. But they start sending money to them.

SPEAKER_03 3:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:15

You know, because money's important. Right. And it's crazy, man, that they they it gets up into millions of dollars sometimes. But it's crazy. You don't see the person, you don't actually talk to the person, you never meet the person. Why would you send them money? Right. Period. Not sure, man. They get infatuated. We got one out of Murfreesboro.

SPEAKER_02 3:38

This woman has a high-level college degree. I'm not gonna get into it. Very successful.

SPEAKER_00 3:48

And has sent tens of thousands of dollars to a guy claiming to be Kid Rock. She said that her and Kid Rock are getting married.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

Yeah, so are Raquel Welsh and I.

SPEAKER_00 3:59

Roquel's in the grave, ain't she?

SPEAKER_01 4:01

Yeah, but we're still getting married. She doesn't know it yet.

SPEAKER_00 4:04

Anyways. And I was sitting listening to this woman. I didn't take the case. I was like, this woman's needs a psychiatrist, not me. Right. Right. And she was she swore to God that Kid Rock her and Kid Rock are getting married. Okay. Well, I don't have high-level degrees.

SPEAKER_01 4:22

I have a few degrees. They're not high-level degrees. And I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I'm not gonna give anybody money.

SPEAKER_00 4:29

Right. Not like that. As my dad used to say, I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I've had the wet rock throw to me a few times. Yeah, there's that. You've heard that before. Yep. It's pretty good. He's a pretty smart guy. Yeah. I turn I mess with the sound. We'll see what happens here. Oh no. But anyway, I forgot what Kid Rock's real name is, but she kept saying his real name. Robert something or other. I think he's married already and got kids and stuff. But anyway, I don't I don't really follow him, so I try to be as kind as possible. Right. Like, I don't think this is happening. And they tell me I'm a, you know, I don't know what I'm talking about. They've convinced themselves that this person is really in love with them. They're going to get married one day. Yeah. This person with an endless amount of money needs $10,000 from you. Yeah. I I'm sure I'm not sure what Kid Rock is worth, but I'm sure it's It's more than $10,000. It's probably in the $80, $70,000, $80 million range, something like that. He's probably loaded. Maybe more than that. I'm not sure. Yeah. He's been successful for He has more money than I could ever hope to have. I mean, he's been successful since I was a young, not young, but in my twenties. You know what I mean? So we might be about the same age. I'm not sure. But Ballada Ball. I don't know. Bang dang Diddy. Yeah. Up jump to boogie. All that stuff. Oh yeah. Remember that? Only God knows why. All right. So here's another one we're going to talk about. Florida woman sentenced to 51 months in prison for defrauding Holocaust survivor of $2.8 million in connection with a romance scam. This is on justice.gov. All right. Damien Williams, the United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York, announced today that Peach's Stergo. That's not a stripper name. Was sentenced by the U.S. judge Edgardo Ramos to 51 months in prison in connection with her years-long scheme to defraud an 87-year-old Holocaust survivor of his life savings. And he's a Jewish guy, so you know he's got some cash. Oh yeah? They saved that money. All right. Let's talk about it. According to the indictment and other filings and statements made in court from at least in about May 27, 2023, this is, up to and including at least October 2021, Sturgo engaged in the scheme to defraud 87-year-old Holocaust survivor, the victim, of over $2.8 million, which was his life savings. Stergo met the victim on a dating website approximately seven years ago, in her about early 2017. Stergo asked the victim to borrow money to pay her lawyer. So he was 80 and on a dating site.

SPEAKER_03 7:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:11

Who she claimed was refusing to release funds from an injury settlement. I get those a lot too. They're like, I can pay you, ma'am, but I'm waiting on this money from injury settlement. Sure you are. After the victim gave her the money, Sturgo said the settlement funds had been deposited into her TD bank account. In reality, the bank records show Sturgo never received any money from any injury settlement. Over the next four and a half years, Sturgo continued her lies. She repeatedly demanded that the victim deposit money into her bank accounts. She claimed that if he did not, her accounts would be frozen and he would never be paid back. In total, the victim wrote 62 checks totaling over 2.8 million that were deposited into one of two of Sturgo's bank accounts. Wow. What do you think of that? She's a special kind of scumbag. Old man. So this guy survived the Germans, the Nazis.

SPEAKER_02 8:06

And then this woman, Peaches, ripped him off. Unbelievable. What do you think of that?

SPEAKER_01 8:14

I wouldn't have given her any money, but I'm sure sitting around he's lonely, wants some company. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:23

At 80, I'm not going to be on a dating app. With the anticipation that he might get to meet her in person. Yes, I'm I'm not on a dating app now, and I still wouldn't give any of them 10 bucks. You're on a dating app. No. You're on farmersonly.com. I know you're no looking for what? A cow? Christian Mingle. No, I'm not on any. We got one of the biggest divorce cases going on right now I've had in my career. They met on Christian Mingle. Oh my God.

SPEAKER_01 8:53

To me personally, dating apps are a scam. Really? Tell me why. Yeah, it's just you don't know who's on the other side of that computer.

SPEAKER_00 9:02

You don't have a clue. And this is just proof. And I think people they get married off those sites. And I think people can put up a facade for a few years and then it starts falling apart. The wall comes down. Yeah. You find out who they really are. And unfortunately, you typically have kids with them. Yeah. And all that gets caught up in there. Yeah, like me. Did you meet her on the dating site? No. I met her in a bar in Okinawa. But she was drunk, though. Yeah, so was I. It turned out into a scam. Here we go. Back to the article. In furtherance of the fraud, Peach's Stergo created a fake email account, intended to appear as if it belonged to a TD bank employee. She also created fake letters from TD bank employees and fake invoices. She went way out. Oh yeah. So we get into forgery, bank fraud, all kinds of stuff here.

SPEAKER_01 9:50

I'm guessing this wasn't her first time in the rodeo.

SPEAKER_00 9:53

She got away with it a few times, apparently. Oh yeah. And then this is her big one, her big bold move. And then they can't quit. They keep pushing it, pushing it, pushing it and then they get caught. Greed is an amazing thing. Sturgo called defrauding the victim her business. Once Sturgo told her real significant other, she had some other guy, other than the vic other, her real significant other, that the victim had said he loved her. Sturgo thought that her successful manipulation of the victim's emotions was humorous, following up her message with LOL. She also joked in a text message that the victim was broke, that he didn't have anything else to pawn. So he was selling off products or stuff. She's in scumbag. Yeah. So first it started with cash and then you started pawning his possessions. Selling cars and junk. Yeah. But when the scam was over, when the victim was no longer sending Sturgo money, she was upset, not because she felt bad for the victim or had a sense of remorse, but because she was unwilling to earn money through legitimate employment. She wasn't earning money. That wasn't earning. I mean, see, she wouldn't go up and get a job. That's what they said. She was earning money. She wasn't earning money. She was ripping the guy off. The poor dude. Anyway, let's talk about see what else she goes. She goes, she said in a text message, I'm just aggravated, hurt, frustrated that I haven't made money. I don't want to work. It's too hard. Oh. Imagine that. It's too hard, Juice. Yeah. While the victim lost his life savings and was forced to give up his apartment, Sturgo lived a life of luxury. With the millions she had received from the fraud, she brought bought a home and a gated community, a condominium, a boat, and numerous cars, including a Corvette and a suburban. During the course of the fraud, Sturgo also took expensive trips, staying in places like the Ritz Carlton, and spent many tens of thousands of dollars on expensive meals, gold coins and bars, jewelry, Rolex washes, designer clothing from stores like Tiffany, Ralph Lauren, Neiman Marcus, Louis Vuitton, and Hermes. Hermes? H-E-R-M-E-S. You're out of my when you said Tiffany, you're out of my league already. If you get past Ritz Cracker, you're out of my league. I buy my wife stuff from K jewelers, so you know I'm just that kind of I bought mine stuff from Walmart. Walmart? Yeah. Like costume jewelry juice? No. I never bought her jewelry. She didn't get a wedding ring? No. Engagement ring? No. She didn't get any of that stuff? Oh yeah, she had an engagement ring. And you wonder why you're divorced. And we had a wedding band.

SPEAKER_01 12:26

I'm getting lasered off.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

Oh, you got the tattoo? I wear the rubber one now.

SPEAKER_01 12:31

Yeah. $5 to get a put on, $675 to get a takeoff.

SPEAKER_00 12:36

Oh, you're doing the fade out thing where they Oh, they're lasering it. Yeah. It takes a while, right? To get it to come to the surface. All right, here we go. In addition to her prison term, Storgo 36 of sh Champions Gate, Florida, one of your people. No, not my people. Was sentenced to three years of supervised release in order to pay restitution an amount of $2.8 million. She ain't gonna pay that back. Nope. And forfeit the same amount, including the home she purchased in a gated community and over a hundred luxury items she purchased with fraud proceeds, including Rolex watches, designer purses and clothing, and large amounts of gold and jewelry. Mr. Williams praised the outstanding investigative work of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. They did good. I don't know if this this guy may get a portion of his money back, but he's not getting his money back. I mean he might be able to sell the house or the Corvette.

SPEAKER_01 13:23

Yeah, but he's not getting back.

SPEAKER_00 13:26

He's not getting back two point eight million.

SPEAKER_01 13:28

Which is a real shame. She had to take advantage of to me, a hero.

SPEAKER_00 13:34

He survived the the Nazis. Yeah. They didn't get into his name or about him, but they shouldn't. But we're sorry for the guy. There's a special place in hell for people like her. I don't think her little three years of supervising the city. I don't think that's right either. She should get about ten years. She should get executed. Executed. Yeah, exactly. No, they should public hanging. They should put her in a concentration camp. Yeah. Let her eat a piece of bread a week and a little bit of water and work. Yeah. She she should be at hard labor. Yeah. I don't know, man. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 14:09

I don't think that's a stiff enough sentence for what she did to that man. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:13

Let's talk about Grant Amato. This guy's special.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

Yeah, we're not talking about Mike Tyson's boxing coach, Cuss Amato. My page went away here. Hold on.

SPEAKER_02 14:29

Alright. The Orlando sentinel. All these Florida people.

SPEAKER_00 14:35

I know. I know. Alright. Grant and Motto trial. This was in, well, it's a Florida paper, so I didn't even put a date on it. Of course. 2019. Alright. Grant and Motto trial, jury decides against death sentence for two. How'd he say that? C-H-U-L-U-O-T-A. Chuyota? Chuliota. Chuliota, whatever. The Florida fella. He killed a family. Pretty redneck area. Let's talk about it. He's going to spend the rest of his life in prison. Juror said no death penalty. Florida, the jurors have got to be unanimous. Yeah, which is a shame. Alabama, the judge, the jury gives a recommendation, the judge decides. And they typically go with the jury, but does he want to get re-elected, right? Of course. Politicians. The same 12 jurors found Amato guilty of three counts of first-degree murder in July 31. This is 2019. Deaths of Chad, Margaret, and Cody Amato. The jury returned to Semino County Courthouse Monday morning for additional testimony in the trials penalty phase. So they said no death penalty. Let's see what he did.

SPEAKER_01 15:38

Yeah, which is a shame.

SPEAKER_03 15:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

If you take a life after you're found guilty, if you did it, your life should be taken.

SPEAKER_00 15:47

Prosecutor said Amato snapped after his family tried to derail his online relationship with a Bulgarian webcam motto, Sylvie, for whom he had stolen roughly who from whom he had stolen roughly $200,000 from his father and brother, and gave to this girl Sylvie. He executed his parents and brother and then tried to stage the crime scene to make it appear that Kodi Amato had killed their parents, killed their parents and then himself in a murder suicide, the state said. Oh, that's weird. We'll see what happened. But defense lawyer Jeffrey Lucal said that Stone was speculating about when each member of the family was killed. The only evidence that Margaret Amato died at about 4.45 p.m. was that was when the last user activity was recorded on her computer. Blah, blah, blah. All right. That killed him, right? In court filings, Amato's lawyer listed a variety of factors they said weighed against him, getting the death penalty and motto's lack of significant prior criminal history. You you wasted three people. His age, he was raised as a Christian. And I was I'm a Christian. And if I slaughter people for no reason, where should I go, Juice? Yeah. If if I slaughter people, it's for a reason. Not wait, because you stole money from your dad and was giving it to this girl Sylvie? Oh no, no.

SPEAKER_01 17:06

Not a Bulgarian model that probably looks like a linebacker.

SPEAKER_00 17:11

During Lucal's closing arguments argument, Jason Amato sat with his arms crossed at his as his brother's defense team played a slideshow of family photos. Lucal urged juries to consider that Grant Amato's obsession with Sylvie and downward spiral took place just after a few months, a small fraction of the young man's life. The jury also heard from Slong Young, who was Cody Amato's girlfriend, testifying for the state. She said that Cody became fast friends as co-workers at Orlando Regional Medical Center, but in the months leading up to January, they had quietly begun a relationship. Cody was the best kind of person. Young testified, describing him as a kind man who treated everyone he encountered at the hospital with respect. He cared so much about his job and his patients and not just them, but his coworkers and his friends and family. Her voice shook as she described the impact of his killing. It's been devastating for all of us, Young said. It's difficult except he was only 31 and he would never be out of his. So she's talking about the people Cody. She was Cody's brother's girlfriend. So this guy met a girl named Sylvie, a Bulgarian webcam model, stole $200,000 from his brother and his dad. To give to this girl, apparently. It's probably some pimply fat guy. I was just gonna say, how do you know who's on the other end? He's probably some guy from Milwaukee.

SPEAKER_01 18:31

You know, that's 400 pounds, you know, chicken grease dripping off his chin onto his t-shirt.

SPEAKER_00 18:37

Pretending to be Sylvie. Yeah. I don't know, man. This isn't scary. And he they said, hey, bro, you owe us 200k and you're gonna stop this webcam crap. And he got mad and killed him. Yeah, he he needs to be executed. Yeah. So what happened, Florida? They normally put everybody in the hot seat down there. So do you think of that one, Juice? Yeah, it's it's another one. There's so many. All right. Here's the money mule one. This one's disturbing. All right, this is on FBI.gov. All right. Here we go. You ready for this one? This one's disturbing. I'm not sure if I'm ready, but let's do it. How can it be more disturbing than the other one, right? Yeah. The last one we just did. Oh, I'm sure it can be. All right. In romance scams, a criminal uses fake online identity to gain victims' affection and trust. The scammer then uses the illusion of a romantic or close relationship to manipulate and or steal from the victim. Let's talk about this one here. We gotta scroll down to it. Again, why? I didn't list any names here, but this one a woman fell in love with an online persona in Mexico, a man. And he talked her into muling drugs across the border in the United States.

SPEAKER_01 19:56

Oh, that's a special kind of she got busted.

SPEAKER_00 20:00

And she's now in federal custody. She's gonna be there for a long time. Sharp as a marble. Sharp as a marble. Another that's another woman that had highly educated. She was divorced, probably lonely, fell in love with this guy, never saw him in person. And he talked her into picking up dope in the cartel in Mexico and muling it across the border and giving it to another cartel member in the United States.

SPEAKER_01 20:27

You know, it just reminds me of the inmate games. They'll see a female CO and they'll, oh, you look good today. Oh, hey. And then they work it into a relationship. She winds up having sex with them, bringing in contraband, bringing in dope or tattoo ink or tattoo machines and phones, knives.

SPEAKER_00 20:50

What what what could you possibly think is gonna come out of that? So, what was the big one in New York where the dudes were working in like the sewing shop?

SPEAKER_01 20:59

Oh, yeah, and they got the lady to help them escape.

SPEAKER_00 21:01

She got they were out for a little while. Yeah, and then she's in jail now. She's an idiot. I think she's out of jail now. There was a movie or short series about it. It was pretty good. I forgot the guy that played one of the characters. He's a good actor. But anyway, I looked at her in real life. She wasn't pretty. No. But they told her she was. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:19

I know one specifically from Florida. She could stop a train and make it take a dirt road. But she was having a multiple person affair in one of the dorms one day. She in the jail now? No. She walked out when she got caught. She walked out, handed her keys in, and then she wound up working at a NASA flight space center in Louisiana.

SPEAKER_00 21:42

That's crazy. Yeah. NASA did ever catch up to her, or like no. NASA still like, oh, you're good. Yeah. NASA, you would think, had pretty good scrutiny with people that are working in spacecraft. Yeah, it was a it was a contracted security position. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 21:57

So she never got convicted of it, she never got fired from it.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

From it, she walked out and resigned. You'd but you'd think NASA, you know, but she went to get another job in NASA, right? No, this was at Florida Department of Corrections at BCI, the gladiator camp.

SPEAKER_01 22:10

Then she went to NASA. And then she went to Louisiana. How she wound up there, I don't know, but it just by happenstance, I knew her. Okay. And I knew the project manager down there.

SPEAKER_03 22:21

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 22:21

And seeing she was down there when we were down doing SWAT training and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 22:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

That's crazy, man.

SPEAKER_00 22:27

But anyway. All right, there's some romance cavties. Yeah, I don't I just don't get them. Right. It's terrible.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

You have no idea who's on the other side of that camera. I mean, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

I just I'm not smart, but I'm smart enough not to fall for that. So when also when they start pushing to meet the person, the person typically goes away. Yeah. Or they come up with a bazillion excuses why they can't. Yeah. Alright, Juice, that's gonna end it for this one. Let's get your comments on this one. This is pretty good. Yeah. All right, we'll be back with another episode in just a bit.