Alabama Crime Roundtable: Murder, Self-Defense, and the Evidence Trail

In this episode of The Hidden Threads Podcast, former law enforcement professionals Macky Outlaw and Jus take a deep dive into three Alabama criminal cases that have captured public attention.

The discussion begins with the death of Whitney Harlow Roberson and the investigative questions surrounding the case. The conversation then turns to the shocking multi-victim homicide case involving William Graham Oliver and the evidence investigators examine when building a case of this magnitude. Finally, Macky and Jus break down the self-defense shooting involving Christopher Saam and discuss how Alabama's self-defense laws can impact a criminal investigation.

Drawing on their investigative experience, Macky and Jus analyze crime scene evidence, suspect behavior, witness statements, digital evidence, and the realities of criminal investigations that the public rarely sees.

Topics Covered:

•  Homicide investigations 
•  Crime scene reconstruction 
•  Alabama self-defense laws 
•  Witness credibility 
•  Digital evidence 
•  Investigative strategy 
•  Probable cause and charging decisions 
•  Lessons from real Alabama cases 

The Hidden Threads Podcast
Hosted by Macky Outlaw and Jus, bringing an investigator's perspective to true crime, digital forensics, and the stories behind the headlines.

#TrueCrime #AlabamaCrime #CriminalInvestigations #HiddenThreadsPodcast #Forensics #ColdCases #SelfDefense #LawEnforcement #CrimeAnalysis #Podcast

Transcript

0:00

All right, we're recording juice. We are. And we have massive entertainment outside the office today. We do. A tractor trailer full of something has got the back end stuck in the ditch and the front stuck in the opposing ditch. Yes. I don't. That's that's talent right there. I don't know if I'm describing this well, but it that's the best I can do. Yeah. Both and it's straddling a road. Right. The front's stuck on one side in a ditch, and the rear is stuck on the other side of the road in the ditch. So of course we have all the neighbors standing around watching on a tractor, and then we got the real tow truck guy here doing his work. Yeah, and buddy's out there watching. Yeah, he's a he's overwatching, he's a supervisor. Yeah. He's waiting for his snacks what he's doing. So smart dog. Yeah, he goes around the neighborhood and gets snacks. So yeah, but if you haven't realized yet, this place where we do this recording is in the sticks. It is. And that road, that turn was not made for a tractor trailer. Make that turn. I'll I'll give him credit. He had some guts to even try that. I would have took the time and just backed out of here because you can turn the other way. It's got a yeah, more of a sweep to it, but I don't know. I'd have backed her out. He's gonna need yeah, there he goes. He's gonna need a little bit more room when he starts moving that boom. I wonder if he has cribbing to jack that other side up a little bit. I don't know. I don't know. It looks like he's gonna use that back of the the trailer as a fulcrum point. Right. All right. So, Juice, what it what how was your week this week? Terrible. You had to work a lot? Work a lot. My John Deere needed the belt replaced. I got robbed there. Got robbed. Yeah. Dealing with the axe. Is it a zero turn, John Deere? No, it's one of those little S100 riding mowers. Yeah, those are good. I'm getting where I don't like the zero turns. They're like K cups to me. I don't like any of them. It requires me to do work when I have it. I pay a guy to come do that. Yeah. I don't I don't have rich money like do down here. Whatever. You can't hide money up at your place. Yeah. I I I got mason jars with money in it. Well, at your place you'd have to pay for three hours of travel anywhere they come from. So uh it's your ways out there. So you can see Tennessee from your yard. Yeah, it's good out there though. Yeah, I like it. It's nice and quiet. Oh yeah. I got one one neighbor that I kind of sort of wave at when I see him. He waves at me when he sees me. Is he still farming or what's he doing? I don't owe that one. Yeah. I don't know what he's doing. I don't care if he's breathing or not. Because he owes you money, right? No, not anymore. I got my money. Did you still lose Air Force Ones or what'd you still what'd you do? No, I had to take the more on the court. Oh, did you? Yeah. And he paid it? Yeah. All right. Well, good. I'm surprised he paid it most of the time. I just let it hang out there as a judgment. So that's okay. Yeah. I got a few I'm taking to court for chargebacks. Yeah. He's lucky I did it through the courts because then in the old days, we'd have settled that a different way. Yeah. He's lucky I'm just older and wiser now. Tired. More mature than I was. Did he come to court? Oh yeah, he showed up. Did he say he's sorry? Yeah. And sorry meant nothing to me. I wanted my money. Why not just pay it? Because he was an idiot and thought, well, he was going to pull one over on me like he does everybody. Did you ha add interest to it? Yeah. Pain in the ass fee, they call it. So yeah. Can you actually say that on YouTube? I don't know. I just did. Pita fee? Yeah, you can say a double S. It's not P to fee. Yeah. Yeah. Pita fee. Some of our clients get the pita fee. Some of them deserve the pita fee. They are mean to me. Yeah. All on that one feeling. Yeah, they're mean. That's what I tell the judge. They were mean to me. Well, luckily I had a good judge. I had a judge down in Jackson County. Really? I don't know many down there. I haven't done a lot in Jackson County. He was a good one. We've done some cases, but they never went to court down there. Never dealt with them. I've done with them to get records and stuff, but they're much easier to deal with than the cab county. The the actual courts are good. Now, support for the court down there, I don't care for that guy. I've actually, they've been very nice when I went to get records and stuff. Yeah. They're much easier to deal with than the cab county. Oh, yeah. Well, the cab county likes to store their stuff in nine different locations around the county. They have a lot of problems down in DeCab County. I was like, so this ain't in Fort Payne. No, you gotta go up here. You gotta go up here. There's an Indian with smoke signals. You gotta go there and then turn left by the red dog. And then Yeah. And hope you still find that cricket on the stump on the left. Keep the creek to your left. Right. You know, some get some instructions like that to find documents sometimes. Yeah. But uh some of those people are nice down there, they just not their system. They're just going along with whatever the elected officials told them to do. So all right, Juice, we got some interesting ones today. Talk about some local recent deaths. And then one, well, one's got a death, but it was a standard ground incident. So the first one, this one made the news national news. I don't know if you remember this or not. This is about the young lady, uh Har Whitney Harlow Robison. Okay, she just graduated from Arbor, started her job. She's in, I think it was architecture or uh clothing and design or something like that. She just started a job. Anyway, on March 7th this year, she was visiting her boyfriend and his dad at their house. And they went up in the attic to look at the dad's gun collection, and dad was up there with them. And he had some antique 22 pistol revolver that detonated and shot her in the chest and killed her. Nice. And he was the one that had his hand on the gun, right? Okay, so safety doesn't play in his attic. Well number one, if you got antique guns setting around upstairs, why are they even loaded? Yeah. You're not it's not a self-defense. It's not a self-defense weapon. I've got collectible guns from my dad. There's no rounds in them. I keep one pistol loaded in my house, and it's the one in the safe that I would use for self-defense. Yeah, well, I got a bunch around my house. Well, I'll take that back. I got one here that's a condition three weapon. Yeah. Shotgun. I've got several laying around the house and the workshop that I can reach for. Right. But I keep that one there, you know. The rest are unloaded, but no big deal and locked up. But if I had an antique collect, I don't have any antique guns. I don't know. I would not keep it loaded sitting around. I don't know. Well, first of all, he should have checked and cleared the weapon. Treat every weapon as if it were loaded even after ensuring it to be unloaded. Yeah. Even if it's not loaded, it's loaded. I learned that when I was a kid. Yeah, you never point the weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot. Correct. If you practice one of the four safety rules, you're not going to kill somebody. Correct. Just one. Don't don't put your booger hook in that trigger. And don't point it at something you're not willing to kill. And keep your muzzle pointing in the safe direction to your side. Yeah, I don't everybody, I I it's one of my pet peeves where they say, Oh, it was an accidental discharge. No, it wasn't. It was a negligent discharge. The Marines call it negligent. The army calls it accidental. Yeah, I hate I hate that it's an accident. That that if you're handling a weapon, if you well, let me back up. If you're mishandling that weapon, it's not an accident. Right. It's negligent, period. So let me tell you a story about the army with a negligent discharge. Accidental discharge, they call it. Okay. All right. I was the range, I was the OIC of a range down in Benning. We had a bunch of reservists. I planned this thing out for months. They were going to come down, we're going to do a rifle qual and then shoot some pistol, right? Okay. So we had one range going with the pistol, half shoot the pistol, go through some training while the other's doing the rifle, and then we swap it out, right? Always go smooth as butter, too, juice. Right. No, it doesn't. Right. Fort Binning, right? The problem we have in the army is people can't zero a weapon with 20 rounds. No, they cannot. I'm like, some of them might have said, just get up and go over there and drink Gatorade. You're not, we're not wasting any more time. I've seen it on the Army range too. You must have you gotta have your eyes closed. Yeah. They're going through magazine after magazine. Like, really? Three rounds, pal. That's all you need. I'm like, we got other people that's gonna train. We didn't we ain't got time to sit here and hover around you. Right. But, anyways, we had a sergeant major, very arrogant guy. Said he was a competitive pistol shooter. We're shooting an Alberetta, which is fine. It's got a bunch of buttons on it, you gotta hit before to shoot, but we're good with it. Pretty reliable gun, though. Yeah. Keep it clean. Anyways, he we were doing some combat reloads. Right? And then he somehow got his fat left hand in front of that barrel and pressed the trigger. Shot a hole right through it. Right through his hand? Mm-hmm. And then finished the drill. Well, he was he was competitive. I was standing back there, I was at OIC, so I was kind of in the back. I think the general was there. Yeah, he I was a captain, you know. I was kind of doing the whole thing. Yes, sir, we got this going on, you know, all the, you know, doing the typical Oh dog and pony stuff. Yeah. And then we hear a guy screaming like somebody stabbing him in the heart. Yes. And so the the range safety officer stopped, shut everything down, and went out. He shot himself in the hand. So the medic went over and started looking at it. Medic said we gotta get him to the hospital. Yeah, okay. Except Fort Benning, they got the big hospital there. Yeah. So the medic loaded him up, driver took him to the hospital. We shut everything down until range safety came out and cleared everything, which they did. MPs came out, they had to do an investigation, which was very short. Yeah. They said, What happened? I said, Dum Dum shot himself in the hand. They're like, okay. Nobody else, there was no, no, nobody else shot him, is what their big thing is, right? Yeah. He shot himself in the hand. And I had to write up a thing and all that. Bidding range safety was pretty cool though. I guess it happens more, you know, because that's a lot of soldiers down there. I guess it happens sometimes. And they got basic training going through there too. But I went to the hospital to see the guy. He said, he's trying to say that the weapon malfunctioned. No, no, it didn't. I said, even if it did, why was your hand in front of that barrel? He's trying to get me to write that in my report that the weapon. I said, no, we're gonna write that you're dumb. Yeah. And you put your hand out in front of that. Yeah. The bullets don't go backwards. They don't. That's one thing I'll give the Marine Corps when we were at the range, even when I was coaching, PMI, we were so anal about everything. Something that stupid is almost non-existent. Right. We did uh in Horshrecon when I was a direct action shooter. Right. We would do six months on the range, and it would the times are at first when you started that when I first went over to the direct action side, yeah. Like, there's no way we're gonna pull this. The combat reloads in the two seconds and all that bullcrap. Oh, yeah. And they forget fast where you do it. And we were doing high stress, high high speed, fast changes. Nobody ever shot themselves in the hand. Now we had some go over the top of the targets. Well, that happens. That's downrange. That happens. They would just kind of make fun of you and make you sit down for a minute, but it was downrange, you know, it was trigger went off before your sights were in that black circle, right? Yeah. But it was downrange, though. I will say though, in in when I was in the army, the guys that were not reservists, not National Guardsmen, but the guys that were active duty infantry or ranger or the the F guys or prior service marines, they're pretty squared away on the range. They got more bullets. They got more ammo and they've shot more. But there were some soldiers that shouldn't have a nerf gun. Right. So this was a training unit where we went around and did the managed the command post of the future and all that crap. Yeah. All right. I was what do you call them? Observer controller, whatever it is, OC, whatever they call them. I was one of those guys. But we would have to go qualify. You had to shoot once a year, no matter what. Shoot a weapon if you're an officer. And we had 30 M4s and 30 Berettas with a 200 and something soldiers. So we had to get creative, you know. Yeah. We didn't get to go out and just train on weapons. And but this guy, he was the supposed to be the match pistol shooter. Yeah. And like he was trying to see how fast he can put a hole in his hand. Apparently he did it pretty quick. You know, you still get if his hands are having trouble, you still get them. Oh, he'll get disability and everything for that. And then he would walk around after he got, you know, he'd he was walking around, his hand healed up, obviously. And I said every time I would say him, I'd go, It's my good hand. He hated me so bad. Shut up, sir. It's my good hand. Anyways, what movie's that from? It's one of the Wayham Brothers. I can't remember what it was. I don't remember. So anyway, this guy shot her. We're back to Miss Robinson. Guy shot her and killed her. And he got charged with man, you know, with manslaughter, and then they're suing him for wrongful death her family is. I agree with that. They should. He but not guilty in the criminal side. Okay. All right. That might change later, you know, as we get down the road. These things take forever. But I don't think you tried to meant to murder the girl. Yeah. No, but it it's not intent to murder if the charge. If it was, it would be second degree murder, first degree murder. It was negligence. It was manslaughter. Same way people in in DUI recs they get charged with manslaughter, you know, vehicular manslaughter. They didn't intend it, but it happened. Because you're gonna lost their life. Exactly. I I don't think he planned that day out and said, I'm gonna kill this girl today and lured her up in the attic and shot her. That would be a different story. And it's a shame because he was an idiot that that girl lost her life. Right. And she seemed like a promising young girl, too. And uh and I don't know, people, you gotta be safe with weapon pistols, rifles, whatever. You know, I'm not anti-gun by any stretch of the means. Oh, neither am I. I'm anti-idiot. Yes. I think this is me personally, people good, you can they're gonna bash me online for this. I think there should be some training before you're issued a pistol permit. I agree. But my daughter at five years old knew how to handle a weapon and where to point it and how to clear it. And so if you don't know what you're doing, just don't touch it. Yeah, just leave it alone. So my youngest daughter is very good. She knows the pistols and rifles and all that. She doesn't she hasn't handled a shotgun much. She just won't touch it. She's like, I don't know what to do. So that's just you know, just don't just leave it there, right? Yeah, don't touch it. Daddy, what is this? You know, kind of thing. Now she knows lever action and M4 and pistol. Right. My oldest daughter was not big into guns, but we did go through gun weapon safety. If you don't know what it is, don't pick it up. Yeah, here's how to here's how to check if it's clear, here's how to clear it, and all that. My wife knows how to clear weapons just because she's a redneck from Sand Mountain, you know. Yes. Not a bad thing. But not everybody goes has that background. No. And I've been around people that handle weapons like garbage. You know, when I was doing some training down here, people would point them at me, and I'm like, come on. Yeah, we we had a guy that lasered us a couple times that you had to make him sit out during one of the classes. He he pointed at me. Yeah. I'm like, I know I'm just an instructor, but you can't point it at me. You know what I mean? What if I was a unknown walking around in here? You know what I mean? You can't point it at people. You pointed at the bad guys, anyway. And that day we were shooting paper, I think. Yeah, yeah, we were. We were doing the kill house. Yeah. My little kill house something. Yeah. My little with tarps. That was fun. It was muddy down here. It doesn't matter. We had a good time. Yeah. Y'all seemed like you enjoyed that week, except for one guy. Yeah, one guy was unhappy. He was just mad all the time. He was. But you had two young guys that were motivated in there. Yes. That except for the one pointed his gun at me. Yes. But he was still motivated. He took a break. So he felt bad about it. He got and said, hey man, that was stupid. You know what I mean? Hey, he's a good kid though. Yeah. Good guy. Good kid. He's younger than me. Everybody's a kid than me. Yeah. I actually got him on the team. Yeah. Yeah. He was a good team. Yeah. They still have our SWAT team out there? No. That's all done and over with. Who's handled it? The military or the contractors? I think the Arsenal has that. MPs or something? Yeah. Okay. Alright, here's another good one in Alabama. I say good one. All right. Man arrested after three family members, including a pregnant teen, found dead and bound with zip ties. This guy here. This article was published April 29th, 2026. An Alabama man has been charged with eight counts of capital murder more than a week after a mother and her two children were found dead in their home. Mobile County Sheriff's Office said Tuesday that 54 I was talking so good earlier. You were, but you didn't have enough coffee. 54-year-old William Graham Oliver was arrested in connection with the deaths of 46-year-old Lisa Fields and her two children, 17-year-old Kaziah Lucre, who was pregnant, and 12-year-old Thomas Cordell Jr. He broke in their house with the intent to rob them, but he tied him, I guess they fought him, right? And then he decided I'm going to execute everybody and did it. Did him in. And this guy, he's related to him, so he kind of knew where I guess they worked and had some cash. Yeah. And he doesn't. You know what I mean? And he's going to go in and get some money. I don't there's not a lot out there about this, but the guy, it appears, they had probably asked for them to borrow some money and they said no. And he said, I'm getting some money. Went in that house and it went chaotic. Right. Right. In Alabama, if they're pregnant, guess what? You get charged with that one too. Right? And you get charged with that. So he's probably gonna get the the needle unless he pleads pleads guilty. Let's see here. He says here that Birch, who's one of the officers here, Birch says Field's throat was cut and she was stabbed. So he got after her with a knife. He says Lucre was shot and her brother's throat was cut. Lucre's one-year-old daughter was found unharmed in the home. There was a baby, another baby there, too. Wonder if it was his kid. I don't know. He's an old man. I don't know. You never know. Never know around here. Exactly. South Alabama. A lot of times, if you look and there's a m murder scene like that, and children and family members are gone, the one that belongs to that suspect is usually left unharmed. I don't know. Not a lot coming out. He's not saying anything, obviously, right? He's got a lawyer. The sheriff says Oliver had known the family for quite some time and was inside their home looking for something on the night of April 19th. So the night before. All right. He was at home 7:30-ish Sunday night. Very, very tight timeline, very solid circumstantial evidence at this point. We feel confident we have the right man, Bert said. That's the sheriff. He says investigators know what Oliver is looking for and his motive, but he doesn't want to get into that this time. He released it. Oliver has a criminal history, but Bert says this is the first time charges against him are violent. The sheriff says he this goes to show you you never truly know what somebody's capable of. All right. Cut their throats. Yeah, he made it personal for some reason. Especially with the mother. Stabbed her and cut her throat. He might have she might have fought him. Right. She she's probably the one that was the one that the ground and said, You're done. We ain't giving you anything. Get out. They might all jumped on him, too. You know what I mean? And then he used weapons to overpower them, right? So but uh they get into the kids and stuff here. I'm not gonna talk about that. But yeah, this was a this was strange. You don't see that in Mobile, so people think of the beach, right? Right. You get up north in that northern part of the Baldwin counties there in Mobile County, it's very country like here. You driven through the room. Right. You went down there on a case once. I have, and I may have heard a banjo picker. That woman was special. She has evidence that can release a man from prison and won't let anybody in there. Yeah. But we had her. I talked to her. She was willing. I don't know what happened in a couple days. I think the client pissed her off. The woman that paid us. Well, now I know he did that. I'm talking about not him, but it's the woman, his girlfriend that paid us. So yeah. She's a bit aggressive. Everything was smoothed over with that woman. She yelled at me a lot, the uh the the client, the paying client. She got on because we weren't, you know, solving all of her problems in five minutes. We were trying, but remember, she I would say, look, we're trying to get a hold of her. We're trying well, I'm going over there. Don't hire us and then turn around and and muck it up. Piss everybody off. Yeah, because that's all she did. After we had everything worked out, we were gonna get all the information, the copies, the evidence. She was willing to let us bring a copier there and burn copies, right? She was going to allow me to take everything to a Kinkos or Staples or Office Max and copy everything on my word. Right. And bring it back. Yes. Locked in a shed out back. Yep. My thing too is why haven't the Lawyers said, Hey, Mr. Judge, we need a warrant to go get these records. They can do that, right? Yeah. Absolutely they can. Especially if you're talking some big evidence that's going to possibly let someone. Absolutely. They have an ongoing case working now, so I don't know. But yeah, the client, she was a little difficult. You're you're being nice. She was more than a little difficult. I'm not gonna say it on here. Yeah, I am. She was she was one of those mean she was mean to me. Yeah. She was mean. But anyways. It's easy to be mean to you. We did everything we were supposed to, plus more, you know. Yes. Alright, and this is the big one. Madison K. Excuse me, Jews. Coffee. That was Madison County? Madison, no, this is the new one. Madison County. Judge dismisses murder charges against Christopher Sam in July 2024 shooting under Stand Your Ground law. That took a while. Yeah. Usually the Stand Your Ground hearing happens pretty quick. I've seen them happen with a mess. But if there's any glimmer of a trial, it'll it'll play out slowly for the most part. Okay. So we had one here got granted a stand, and I still don't understand that one. He didn't get a stand your ground, he went to trial, but the uh he got not guilty, right? He did, and I don't I don't understand how. You shoot people in the back nine or ten times. So even even so I've been through several academies. We've always talked about the stand your ground, you know, the castle doctrine, all that. We know for a fact if the person is not being aggressive, if the person is leaving, if their back is towards you and they're walking away from you, we were instructed you can't shoot. That's not a stand your ground. That is not a person that is showing aggression, assault, advancement towards you. Apparently, this guy went off his porch, followed the guy around to the side, and shot him a couple more times. Okay. I don't understand how he got not guilty. I really don't. Regardless of the amount of trouble the the victim was, once you shoot them and they take off, you're not supposed to continue following them and chasing them and putting rounds at them. You de-escalate. Yes. They de-escalate, you have to match the de-escalation. Yes. And we just talked about de-escalation on one of our last podcasts. Yeah. This one here was a fight. These two kids got into a fight. Right. And he was defending himself. So he said this says the Madison County judge throughout the case, granting both youthful fender status and a stand your ground motion within the in the death of Brian Wiggins Jr. Okay. Uh we'll see here. That was Donna. Judge Donna Pate, she's nice. I've been, she's an old like grandma. Yeah. I've been in her court. So he was YO status? Yeah. They were younger. They got in a fight. Pistol was brought out and he shot him. I'm surprised he didn't get charged for possession of a pistol by somebody under the age of the. I'm not sure which kind of gun it is. Let's see here. Sam, who was 18 at the time of the arrest, so he could have a rifle. Let's see what happened. Right. Was charged with murder in the shooting that took place on July 3rd, 2024, in the area of Miller Boulevard, just north of Ode Madison Pike in Madison. Responding officers found Wiggins on the ground with gunshot wounds. Plural. He was taken to Huntsville Hospital where he later died. Madison police have described the shooting as an isolated incident and said at the time there was reason to believe the victim and offender knew each other. Alabama Standard Ground Law allows a person to use deadly force without a duty to retreat if they reasonably the reasonably believe it is necessary to prevent death or serious physical injury. Right. The dismissal with prejudice closes the criminal case against Sam. See if there's any more. It doesn't get into the weapon type. Let me look it up here. You got time for me to look it up? Mm-hmm. Of course we have time. Let's see here. That's so fancy you can type like that. I hunt back. You're very studious. You make a good idea. That's the only thing I learned in high school. Only useful thing I learned in high school. I used to hand my assignments to a girl that sat next to me and typing and she'd do 'em. Right. It doesn't get the specific firearm. It was a it was a struggle. They were fighting each other. And then it doesn't get in that level of detail. I mean, in your house you're gonna grab whatever. Yeah. I'm thinking maybe he was he had a a rifle or something. Mm-hmm. He was actually indicted by a grand jury. Now you can indict a squirrel by grand. Grand juries are a kangaroo court. Yeah. It makes DAs feel better for some reason. They just say there's enough here to push towards the trial. Yeah, and they can the jurors can ask questions and all kind of it's weird. So but the DA's the judge. So yeah. Yeah, so he got indicted by a grand jury. Donna Pate granted to stand your ground motion and dismissed the murder case. What's not been publicly reported in the news is a Pacific firearm or caliber, detailed testimony, whether Wiggins was armed. I'm sure he was. Well, they don't have to be armed. No. If they're lowering the boom on you. Yeah. You're in fear for your life. Oh yeah. Well, Kyle Rittenhouse, remember they were getting they were getting ready to crack his door with a skateboard. Yeah. Remember that? And he shot him. So people say he shouldn't have been there. Who cares if he's there or not? You don't try to Yeah, it doesn't matter. And then the guy on the stand said, you he didn't shoot until you were going to hit him with the skateboard, right? And he goes, Correct. And you could see he was like, Oh, I just lost. Well, the video shows him with a skateboard. So it's like a a blow edge coming in. That that was just somebody trying to make a statement that should have never gone to trial. That was back during our what do you call it? The political courts going on. Yes. Oh, here's a here's somebody we can throw up because he's white and we don't like him. Yeah. And he shot somebody. Yes. That was so weird. But yeah, I think he did a great job. But um he's the FAFO champion. He just got married, so yeah. Anyways. He gets badmouth on Twitter and all that stuff. Yeah, and George George Floyd gets celebrated, which I don't I don't understand. Right. I don't either. You're talking about that guy that died from a heroin overdose or fentanyl overdose. Fentanyl. Yes. Fentanyl's like high speed heroin. Yeah. And then the the cop Chauvin got blamed for it when it wasn't him. Right. Yeah. I mean, it was I I agree. He's he was a threat to the community. Yeah. He was. And especially when there's seven officers from the same department saying that that technique was taught in the academy there. They've modified it now, but I I've been to several academies that is taught. So when they're resisting and they're being a menace to society, you're not using, you're you're attacking red areas to get them to stop. Does that make sense? Yeah. Okay. And then after they stop, you go to the green and yellow areas, right? You put pressure on, you know, you put handcuffs on them and pain compliance. Yeah, you put handcuffs on them and play there. Let them set up control techniques, pain compliance. You can't set up, put your knees to your chest, breathe, all those things, right? So but yeah, so if I'm trying to arrest you and you're throwing blows at me, I may hit you in the face. Oh, I will hit you in the face with a stick if I have one. Sometimes you miss the shoulder, you know. Get back. Remember that training? Oh my god. I did have it in the State Department, but I was like, this is stupid. But anyway, you did it just so you because you want your certificate, you know. Yeah. But yeah, but staying your ground. It seems like the more you go south, the more they're granted. Yes. We had that young man we talked about up in Providence, I believe, in Rhode Island. Where he had there had been several teenagers fighting that night. All right. And they had tracked him down and were going to fight some more. His boys being drunk boys and everything. And he got jumped by two or three people, and he came up with a a razor blade and said, Good luck. Slice and dice. People's guts started falling out. He didn't kill nobody, but cut him up pretty bad. No, I think he did kill one. But anyways, he sliced, he's he got out of there. And uh they don't have a stand-your ground law there. So it was a I watched some of that court proceeding, and he at one point I was like, This kid's gonna get murdered. But the jury said no. It was self-defense, so yeah. He got to walk out. I've been jumped by several people as a kid. They charged him with it is what it is. They charged him with underage drinking. Yeah. And he was 23 at the time of the court, but anyway, I'm like, I'll take that charge all day. Just get me out of jail, right? Yeah. That's like that Karen Reed up in, you know, they said they said she murdered her police husband. Oh, yeah. But the only thing she got charged with is DUI. I was like, I take three DUIs, get me out of this courtroom, right? Yeah. Exactly. Yeah, stay on your ground, man. That's a big deal. Especially people nowadays think that they can just walk up in your property and take things. Yeah. And there's a lot of places that will not honor that. You can try and cry that all you want. I suggest everybody look in their own home state, in their own towns, and make sure that you have something to protect you that is under legal jurisdiction, under justification. I said people come in and take things. You gotta be more clear because if they're just walking around your property, maybe stealing lawnmower, you cannot kill them. No, you can't do it. Uh you can try to take the lawnmower back, that's about it. Yeah you can crack them on the fingers with a ruler, maybe. Yeah, you might get a little assault. Hey, stop. Yeah. Now, if they turn on you and they come at you, that's different. Yeah, then we're gonna protect their I mean, really? They're gonna steal your lawnmower, take a picture of them. Everybody got a cell phone, everybody's got one of those. Yeah, take a picture of them, call the police, say that idiot just stole my lawnmower. Right. And even if you tackle them to the ground, you can be charged with assault. Yes. It's crazy, man. How much the criminal can how much trouble you can get in by trying to defend your property. And you can't have delayed self-defense. No. You can't say he made me mad yesterday, so I'm gonna kill him today. Right. Although you'd want to, you can't do that legally. We've talked about that at church where people come in, they may be rambunctious or they may even put hands on somebody and we de-escalated and they left. Right. We can't chase them down and kill them. No. So even though you want to. No, let them go. Let the cops pick them up. Let the cops deal with them. Let them overdose or whatever's going on. Yeah, whatever they're gonna do, let them do it elsewhere. All right. Well, that's gonna do it for this one, Juice. That was good. I liked it. Yeah. We kind of went out of out of left field there and it turned out to be a good one. Yeah. All right, Juice, say bye. Bye, Juice. We're gonna stop there.