Two Cases, Two Standards: Sarah Grace Patrick and the Isaac Apodaca Sword Killing

 On this episode of Hidden Threads, Macky and Jus break down two very different homicide cases and what they reveal about how evidence—or the lack of it—drives an investigation. First, the Sarah Grace Patrick case out of Georgia, where a teenager stands accused in the deaths of her mother and stepfather, and we dig into what the state has actually shown versus what's been assumed in the court of public opinion. Then we pivot to the Isaac Apodaca sword case, a killing where the physical evidence, digital trail, and investigative record stack up in overwhelming fashion. Two cases, two evidentiary standards, one question: what does it actually take to prove a case? We walk through the forensic and OSINT angles from our chairs and talk about why the gap between "charged" and "proven" matters more than ever. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Alright, Juice, we're recording this thing again. Awesome. You excited? Oh. So excited. Like my hat? You don't even like my shirt. The shirt's weird.

SPEAKER_04 0:11

The shirt's not weird. It's Jim Bob.

SPEAKER_03 0:13

Did he give you to you?

SPEAKER_04 0:14

It worked? No. We this was made. Custom made.

SPEAKER_03 0:18

Jim Bob. Is he a coworker?

SPEAKER_04 0:20

He was.

SPEAKER_03 0:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 0:23

It was uh we discussed him before.

SPEAKER_03 0:25

He was our Did he have a spider on his forum? Yes. Man, you really went all out in the hate for this guy. Yes. Man alive.

SPEAKER_04 0:32

Well, when you're a stri snitch, it happens.

SPEAKER_03 0:36

Where's he working now?

SPEAKER_04 0:38

Oh, over in Huntsville for one of the the big aerospace companies now.

SPEAKER_03 0:43

He'll get buried over there and no one notice him. By Uncle Jeff. Uncle Jeff. Yeah. Which Jeff?

SPEAKER_04 0:49

Bezos.

SPEAKER_03 0:50

Oh, at the Blue Origin or whatever? Blue Origin.

SPEAKER_04 0:54

But I did wear my hat.

SPEAKER_03 0:56

Yeah, Bezos is going on the hey, let's let civilians pay me to drive around in space. Yeah. Where Musk has said, hey, government, pay me and I'll do your job for you, kind of thing. And he's doing a heck of a job at it, isn't he? Yeah. I mean, I get both angles, but there's money in both places.

SPEAKER_04 1:11

Yeah, and right now Elon's making it. Right. He is. Since he's what, the world's first trillionaire?

SPEAKER_03 1:17

Yeah. And people get mad about it.

SPEAKER_04 1:19

Sanders is having a meltdown.

SPEAKER_03 1:20

You know who you know who all Bernie Sanders lift out of poverty, right? Who? Nobody. Bernie Sanders. Yeah. Yeah, he's the only one. I don't, you know, I don't people get mad because somebody makes a lot of money. They take a risk. They forget that part. Yeah. Big risks. Everybody says, well, Elon's daddy gave him some money. Okay. He didn't give him the trillion dollars.

SPEAKER_04 1:40

No, he didn't. He may have given him a loan to start out. I don't think his dad gave him money. He might have a little bit. He might have paid for copyright. The family dynamics is there. I don't think his dad gave him money. He may have loaned him money. He may have invested money. Yeah. But he paid his dad back, I'm quite sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:57

Well, he took a big risk and started PayPal with nothing. Yeah. And that's where he got his big money to start, was he sold PayPal, right? Him and Peter Teal. And then he invested that money, took risk, and created other things. He creates things and gets paid for it. Don't understand why people get mad about it, but because they don't have that money.

SPEAKER_04 2:18

They're not willing to take a risk. And yeah, the the fact that they're lazy and don't want to take that risk. I'm when I was younger, I'll take risks. Now that I'm older, I don't want to take risks.

SPEAKER_03 2:29

So I've had employees tell me, hey, I should get paid as much as you. Correct. I said, okay, go take your life savings, invest it in the company, and I might pay you a return.

SPEAKER_04 2:39

Well, hold on now. I didn't say anything about investing my money. I just said I should make as much as you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:45

Yeah. I've got paid in returns, not in salary. But yeah, people forget though that there's a risk involved there. So there is. Mm-hmm. But uh well, you asked me questions. We had the farrier come today. Yeah. Every eight weeks the horses get their hooves trained.

SPEAKER_04 3:00

I like the farriers because they give me their files, their rasps, that are old and wore out, and I can go make knives out of them. Really? Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:08

You do that with your machine skills. Yeah. These guys are fast and efficient on animal feet. So and uh we had one of them with a foot-ish, she found her where the hoof wall separates earlier in the year, and they've really got her looking good now. Her feet are looking pretty good. So those guys are pretty amazing with horse feet. A lot of people are like, you mean they still do that? And I'm like, Well, yeah. And they don't get out and walk, you know, 20 miles a day and wear their hooves down because we keep them pastured. So and my horses, you can let them out and they're not gonna go far because they know where the food is.

SPEAKER_04 3:41

But watching a farrier is not something I would pull up and have popcorn and a beer just just to watch.

SPEAKER_03 3:48

Right. Yeah, I just I was just teasing you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:50

Well, I don't know why you did that. You had me so messed up this morning. I'm like, what is he thinking?

SPEAKER_03 3:54

I was just teasing you. So watching dudes do work, right?

SPEAKER_04 3:57

Yeah. Now, if it's a female farrier, call me. Oh god, creep.

SPEAKER_03 4:02

Well, yeah. We had one came here and she was awful. Yeah. She didn't do good. Now I've seen other ones that do great. So and I'm not saying man or woman, I'm just saying we had one like within two days their shoes fell off. So yeah, that's not good. Right. And then we stumbled across this guy we got now, we've been using for years, and he's awesome. So yeah, we're talking about Sarah Grace Patrick today. All right. If you don't know, this is around Carrollton, Georgia, Carroll County. The uh this girl, a few years back, she woke up, or little sister woke her up and said, Hey, mom and stepdad are dead in the house. They've been shot. All right, and their the state is saying she did it. Alright, they have no physical evidence tying her to the murders other than she lives there. Right. What do you think of that?

SPEAKER_04 4:54

How did the little girl wake up and find the parents were shot? How did she not get startled by the noise in the house?

SPEAKER_03 5:00

I don't know. She did not wake up when they were shot. But she got up to go say, Hey mom, I want some breakfast, you know, whatever. Yeah. And they were dead.

SPEAKER_04 5:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 5:11

We're going down a slippery conspiracy slope.

SPEAKER_03 5:14

Well, I love conspiracy. It's good for good for views. Anyways, the uh what's the um how does a gunshot not wake up the kid?

SPEAKER_04 5:22

I have no idea.

SPEAKER_03 5:24

Where's the gun?

SPEAKER_04 5:25

I have no idea.

SPEAKER_03 5:26

Neither do the cops.

SPEAKER_04 5:27

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 5:28

They have no weapon. And they're going off. So this girl, Sarah Grace, went on TikTok and was like a grieving daughter and all this. And she gave a eulogy at their funeral. Wasn't their funeral at the time, it was like a remembrance thing or whatever. Graduated, had a party, graduation party.

SPEAKER_02 5:48

They're using it all as evidence against her. I'm not buying it.

SPEAKER_04 5:53

Neither am I. I I I could see using a behavioral pattern kind of in your investigation.

SPEAKER_03 6:03

There's got another be another piece of evidence to link that. Yeah. To link it. Her defense attorney is like, so they came out and uh they made a mistake, the state did, and said, We got mountains of evidence. And the defense they have had discovery already, and the defense, her defense attorney's like, where is it? Yeah, it's a Florida mountain. And he's like, I need to see it. And they're like, we don't have any. You know, I don't know if people know this or not. In court, you if you show me we got to show each other our work, right? Oh yeah. So in discovery, you got to show it. One of those amendments. Anyways. And uh they have not shown their work. I found this in Georgia. You do not have to turn over Discovery until 10 days before the hearing starts.

SPEAKER_04 6:45

Well, that's plenty of time for a capital case.

SPEAKER_03 6:48

All the mountains of evidence? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:49

That aren't there. Georgia's got to change that.

SPEAKER_03 6:52

I'm telling you, they're Florida mountains. But just historically, judges have extended that, you know. I'm with the lawyer here. I'm like, if we got mountains of evidence, I need to go through it.

SPEAKER_04 7:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:03

Allegedly, there's digital evidence, there's physical evidence.

SPEAKER_04 7:07

Right to a fair and speedy trial.

SPEAKER_03 7:09

Right. Now, they said there's fingerprints in the bedroom. Okay. The kid lives there. Yeah, exactly. If you go in my house, you're gonna find my fingerprints everywhere, all over the place. Yeah. There's gonna be residue from me in that house, right? Yes. Some people more than others. Yes. Dirty people. But anyway, I don't get we just arrest people now because we don't like them. Yes. Okay. So this kid's got her life ruined. All right. She's been sent in jail for a year or so. I don't know how long. Right. Because she posted a TikTok.

SPEAKER_04 7:44

Well, that's the overwhelming amount of of mountain of of evidence.

SPEAKER_03 7:49

One thing she did too was she reached out to some of these true crime podcasters and said, hey, do this story. And they're saying, Oh, that's guilty. How's that guilty?

SPEAKER_04 7:59

Yeah, that's that's not. She's a kid and she may be reaching out for help.

SPEAKER_03 8:05

They're trying her as an adult. Yes. All right. So here's what their witnesses are going to look like. It's going to be somebody coming in and they're going to say, Sarah Grace said that she was mad at her daddy one day.

unknown 8:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 8:16

Which which one of us growing up weren't mad at our parents?

SPEAKER_03 8:19

There's one mad at me right now, probably, about something.

SPEAKER_04 8:21

One of my kids. I don't even know what it is. It's justifiable. I don't even know it, but I think mine gets mad for acting goofy on a daily basis.

SPEAKER_03 8:29

So this doesn't make me feel good though, because we do I do things that are uh work for the defense. Are they just gonna make up something and say, hey, this guy's gonna put you in jail, shut you up?

SPEAKER_04 8:39

Yeah, but you can't make up things for the defense.

SPEAKER_03 8:42

Absolutely not. That would be illegal. I get shredded. So and like I said in the previous one, we get these digital reports where it's like, well, they're guilty just because we said. Yeah, that that's not the way it works. You got some major gaps here, pal. Yeah, you gotta prove this. Right. I could not I go through the I've been to the same types of schools that these digital police officers have been through. Right, right. And it says most of those courses are just about you went through the course, yeah, is about how to handle evidence. It's like you can't you gotta show your math. Yes, you gotta show your long horn, long division, right? Yeah, and they don't do it. I'm like, they don't have to, they have a badge. Oh man, that's scary. Yeah, it is. But this girl, they have absolutely nothing other than she got grounded one time and she was mad about it.

SPEAKER_01 9:32

Okay. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 9:34

Does that mean she went up there and shot him?

SPEAKER_04 9:36

No. You know how many times I was mad at my parents when I was growing up?

SPEAKER_03 9:39

Yeah. I didn't shoot 'em. Now she may have very well killed these people, but there's no evidence that's been disclosed that points that she killed these people.

SPEAKER_04 9:47

Yeah. Just having a hunch or saying, Oh, I know she did it, but you have no evidence.

SPEAKER_03 9:51

Or calling a podcaster and said, Hey, do a show.

SPEAKER_04 9:54

That proves nothing. I get it.

SPEAKER_03 9:55

But yeah, it's Sarah Grace Patrick, man. Let's get into the other one while we're here. We go make two out of one. You want to let me pull up. So tell me, Juice, what was the other one? I don't remember.

SPEAKER_04 10:06

I've slept since you we we spoke about this.

SPEAKER_03 10:09

That's Jesse. That's not Juice. Juice, Jesse's Juice's kid.

SPEAKER_04 10:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 10:15

All right. Excuse me, audience. I'm pulling this up here. There he is. The next one was the get the kid out in Nevada, I believe it is, with the sword. Did you read about that?

SPEAKER_04 10:27

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:29

Isaac Apadeka. This one, this one's going on right now. I thought this one was interesting. So they're saying he talked this other girl into doing this for him. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 10:39

Alright. Had her move into the house. I guess they they were involved in a love triangle at some point. They did like online pornographies.

SPEAKER_03 10:48

Yeah. And this other girl got on her nerves. They got tired of her. Right. So he this one her the girl, the other girl, ran a sword through her. Right. And they're saying Isaac talked her into it. Right. Through text message. All right. And now he did everything an innocent man playbook says to do. He called his mother first and hey, I think she killed this chick. Called 911, went to Metro PCS and waited for the police, like a common, like out in town, sent it to the search of his phone. Now I watched that interview. All right. Now the police goes on with him for a while and they said, Hey, we think you are part of this. He keeps going and just said, Here's my phone. Once they say, Hey, I think you're uh you did it, I'm like, I'm done. Yeah, where's my attorney? Yeah. He went on forever, handed it over, and then they arrested him.

SPEAKER_04 11:37

But we know here in DeCalb County, when you ask for an attorney 10 times, they still don't get you one. Yeah, and you need to spend the rest of your life done in Sutwaller penitentiary.

SPEAKER_03 11:45

But anyway, there's a hearing going on about that in Madison. You know, the three guys, the um First Amendment auditors that came down and got all it in that they got arrested for walking into the clerk's office with cameras. All the judges down here recused themselves and they moved it to Madison County.

SPEAKER_01 12:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:03

Of course they recused themselves. The Madison County, probably gonna look at that and be like, what are we what are we doing? We got real crime and stuff over here. Yes. So but they didn't. Them guys were in the right. There was not a sign that says don't walk back here. And the little clerk down there got mad and found somebody to swear to warrant on them.

SPEAKER_04 12:25

Yeah, I wouldn't have done that, but whatever. Anyways.

SPEAKER_03 12:27

So yeah, this guy headed everything over, went through the text messages with the cop. If you see the interview, it's there, and they talked it over. Uh, he co-operated with everything. The defense attorney Jay Nair leaned hard on it. This is the defense attorney. He says no DNA tying Apadaka to the sword. He didn't wield it. He found the body, called 911, went to the cell phone store to wait, cooperated with the police, asked for a lawyer. Not the behavior of a killer. I don't think so. What do you think? I don't think so either. Now the consent is the thing here. So Apadaka consented to the phone search. He didn't have to. Sergeant Vigil was the guy that did it. So I'm like a good cop. He was in this. Of course, the cop's gonna take whatever the kid gives him, right? So I am on the other side. If you're gonna hand me evidence, I'll take it. I'm gonna check it in. So and then he read the extra extraction to the jury. This guy, he said it was devastating. The texts weren't ambiguous. It says, I'm wanting you to kill her. You have to end the suffering, end your suffering by ending her joy. So he's telling her the only way to get rid of this girl is to kill her. Right.

SPEAKER_02 13:32

Now, does that mean he's implicit? I'm gonna say yes.

SPEAKER_03 13:41

There's a law out there in most states that has it. Right. Right. Can be implicit and know what is happening. You know this crime is gonna happen and you did nothing to stop it. Right. Makes you implicit, correct? Right. That's where they got him. He even said, gave out an instruction, says, with the dagger, bring it up, turn flat south to north. Hey everybody, Mackie here with Shadownet Digital. You know what most investigators won't tell you is that the evidence that matters today that exists in phone, online, and in your own home, they can't touch. They don't have the skills or the certifications to touch digital forensics. That's what we do. We don't do stakeouts like your traditional private investigators. We don't even compete with those guys. What we do is we take digital artifacts off phones and turn that into real evidence that it can be used in court. We also do open source intelligence, which documents people's online footprints to include the open web and the dark web to give you evidence to help you win your case in court. That can be for a domestic case, criminal defense case, you name it, any type of digital evidence you need to win in court, that's what we help with. We also help with technical surveillance countermeasures. You may know that as being bugged. When people are going through events where somebody needs data that you have, sometimes they'll bug your home. They do this with traditional methods with hidden cameras and hidden microphones, and they also do it through your Wi-Fi where they actually gain access to your devices through Wi-Fi. We help with that as well.

SPEAKER_02 15:08

So if you need somebody we help with that as well. So if you know somebody or you're yourself that has issues with it. We help with that as well.

SPEAKER_03 15:27

So if you know somebody that is going through a legal proceeding or needs help with digital evidence, have them give us a call at 866-910-7499, or go to ShadowNetDigital.com. That's 866-910-7499, or ShadowNetDigital.com. Talk to you soon. And hit with Hilt with Hilt East to West, voila, voila, voila, she's dead. So he actually gave her instructions on how to use the sword. Right. So but anyway, and then she went and did it. This girl He he didn't commit it, but he's at fault. And the girl that did it, she pled guilty, and then she's testifying against them. Of course. And she's saying, and they're saying that she is low IQ, a bunch of different things that was easily manipulated. So now both of these girls, if you get in their history, were easily manipulated. This guy appears to be the brains of the operation of the porn and everything else, and manipulated his girls to do whatever he wanted, right? Basically. And one did it. Say Officer Ryan Romero testified that he used Celebrite to extract the phone data and confirm he was certified on the tool. Here is the thing about my here's my celebrite spill.

SPEAKER_04 16:41

You ready for it? Yes, because this is your nerdy wheelhouse.

SPEAKER_03 16:45

All right. So let me ask you, I'm going into your wheelhouse. So if you go to a murder scene and there is a knife sticking out of the victim's face.

SPEAKER_01 16:55

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 16:55

All right. You take that knife, clean it off, and then position it where you want it.

SPEAKER_04 17:02

So we're gonna evidence tamper? Right. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 17:05

Is that good or bad?

SPEAKER_04 17:06

Oh, that's really great for being bad.

SPEAKER_03 17:09

Okay. Celebrite takes a device and modifies the operating system.

SPEAKER_04 17:16

Okay, so you've already breached the integrity of the device.

SPEAKER_03 17:21

It modifies the operating system. But defense attorneys, DAs have gotten away with it for so long now because Celebrite's supposed to be this big end-all be-all. Right. It's made in Israel. Ooh. It's like Israeli boots, you know what I mean? Whatever. Anyway, this is Israeli. Galgada wore these when she was IDF by them. Yeah. Israeli rucksacks. Remember that? I'm like, everything was Israeli.

unknown 17:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:45

But anyway, it's a good tool. Don't get me wrong. But it does. It either roots or jailbreaks the phone depending on the model. Right. Which modifies the operating system.

SPEAKER_04 17:55

Which makes it look. Jeopardizes the integrity of the evidence.

SPEAKER_03 17:59

And they always say, but it doesn't jeopardize the integrity of the evidence. Yes, it does. Show me. They can't show you. Of course. Celebrat will not release their trademarked product. Even with a warrant, they've said no, we're not doing it, and the judge didn't do nothing to them. Of course. Now, if I took a tool and modified digital evidence, they would laugh me out of the courthouse. They would. Yeah. They would charge you at some point. Possibly. Yes. I testified up in Nashville for about 12 hours a few weeks ago. Right. You talk about long. Like the judge even brought me a monster. Wow. We took a break. She goes, You want anything? And I said, What do you get? She said, I'm getting a monster. She said, You want one? I said, Yeah, she brought me one. I was up there for a while. Yeah, she's nice. We actually won that one, by the way. It was a big time divorce thing. But anyway, a lot of money on the table. Right. But I brought evidence that said the opposition modified my client's phone. All right. To make it look like she was doing something she wasn't. I brought I mean I laid it out. Here's how they did it. It was on a big, they blew it up on the screen.

SPEAKER_01 19:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:11

The opposition just said, no, he didn't do it. No way. Wow. With a digital forensic extra defense. Saying, yeah, he didn't do it. Where's your my and her my client's lawyer said, where's your work? He goes, nah, just looking at it, he didn't do it. So and he goes, that's not, we can't. Yeah, that that that's he said go take a seat. We don't need you no more. So anyway, you got to show it, man. And celebrate modifies the operating system and they don't show how they do it or what it does to the. I know it jailbreaks it, or if I jailbreak your phone, if you got an iPhone or root 8 Android, it strips away the factory level security. It gives me access to a cheap.

SPEAKER_04 19:52

It alters the evidence. Right.

SPEAKER_03 19:54

Anyway, so he said he used to celebrate. We're back to that. So Detective Jared Elair testified he assisted extracting data from three phones in total. An established named certified examiner, named a tool, documented multi-device extraction. That's what the foundation looks like. It's the exact opposite of what we talked about with Sarah Grace Patrick. So everything in these phones pointed to the guy. He turned them over. Yes, these are my phones. Here it is. Here's the messages. Me telling this girl how to kill this girl. Go back to Sarah Grace Patrick. They have none of that. And they're saying she did it. You know, the girl.

SPEAKER_04 20:28

I don't know. What do you think? I don't know. Maybe she did, maybe she didn't, but they don't have the evidence to prove she did it. Right.

SPEAKER_03 20:34

Now this Apadeka guy here in this sword killer, he performed the innocence perfectly and consented to one search that ended him. Right? The search killed him. Right. Now they would have got those phones eventually. But he sat there and walked them through it. It even at one point said, it looks like you're saying I'm uh guilty here. And the police like, no, we're just wanting to get to the truth.

SPEAKER_04 20:55

Look, if if cops are bringing you in to question you about a case, I hate to be the bearer of bad news here. You're not being brought in because you're a witness. Nine times out of ten, you're a suspect. Lawyer up.

SPEAKER_03 21:13

Alright. Yeah. Well, you got McCauley, the girl that actually stabbed the girl, stabbed the uh victim. She's a star witness, and they have her phone where, you know, even if this guy would have wiped his phone, she had the receiving messages. Yeah. She's like, yeah, look, you know. So Apadaka, man, you know, he's on trial now. He's going on right now. We could turn it on and watch it right now. Right. No DNA. It's just him communicating with somebody, making him just as guilty as she was because he did nothing to stop it.

SPEAKER_04 21:45

Well, they just how long ago was it? Two high school kids. She talked to the boy, female talked the boy into killing himself. And she went on trial and she was found guilty.

SPEAKER_01 21:58

Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_04 22:00

I think uh kids aren't the same as when we grew up. Because if you would have tried sending stuff to me like that about kill yourself, we're we're done with the phones. I'm gonna come over and ask you what your problem is. Right.

SPEAKER_03 22:16

So he's charged under conspiracy and accompl accomplice liability, those are the two things that got him. Yeah, conspiracy is a big deal. I mean you conspire to commit a crime, and you're the one that goes and carries it out. I'm just as guilty as you are. Right. Robbing banks, killing people, oh yeah, stealing whatever, right? And out there in New Mexico, they have a thing that's called accomplice liability, also aiding and abetting. Right. Now, aiding and abetting, I always looked at it as hey, Mackie, I need some ammo to go kill people. And I said, Well, here's some ammo. That's aiding and abetting. Or this guy is actually training her through text message on how to do it.

unknown 22:50

Right.

SPEAKER_03 22:51

Which makes him guilty too. Right. Right.

SPEAKER_04 22:54

Yeah, you could be giving them food, money, whatever, but you're giving them the information or you're telling them you're instructing them.

SPEAKER_03 23:00

And her responses were like, I'm gonna go do it right. I'm going there now to do it. Yeah. Instead of saying, Hey, Mr. Cop, I think I thought we were kidding around, but Yeah, he's serious. She's getting ready to go kill somebody. Yeah. The Yes, solicitation as well, which is talking per persuading somebody to commit a crime, right? I don't know, Juice, have you ever persuaded somebody to commit a crime? No.

SPEAKER_04 23:24

I that this new this generation, in in my opinion, this generation is easily influenced. Right.

SPEAKER_03 23:31

They are. I've got two of them. One of them is more influenced, easier influenced than the other. Right. But she can she falls for a lot of stuff.

SPEAKER_04 23:41

You know what I mean? Mine used to. Right. Now she's on guard with everything and knows what people are have issues.

SPEAKER_03 23:49

Everybody has a capability of being evil. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 23:51

Right. For some of us, it's easier to draw out.

SPEAKER_02 23:56

Yeah. They act on it more than others. Right. All right.

SPEAKER_03 24:03

Yeah, because he's got New Mexico, he's a on his main big one is conspiracy to commit murder, which is a big one. It's a capital crime just as much as the one that put the knife in him, right? Yeah. And he's in trouble. But we'll see what happens. But the defense is saying they were just joking around. But he knew this girl and how gullible she was, and she would do whatever she had proved that he would she would do whatever he told her to over the years, not just a couple days. Right. You know, talking about pornography, prostitution, all these things that they booked.

SPEAKER_04 24:38

And he me manipulated those girls pretty good.

SPEAKER_03 24:40

Mm-hmm. He did. And uh talked went into getting rid of one that they didn't like all of a sudden. So uh all right, Juice. There's two of them.

SPEAKER_04 24:49

We talked about two into one.

SPEAKER_03 24:50

Two and one. One went kind of short, so I brought the other one in. Right, right. But uh what do you think about these?

SPEAKER_04 24:57

I don't know. I I you're you're very techy, nerdy, digital. I just I I think there's a lot of flaws out there in in that work when it comes to police. I don't think you do this, you you do the digital side a lot. Right.

SPEAKER_03 25:16

We always got something going on.

SPEAKER_04 25:18

Yeah. Cops don't always have something going on. So you can take the training and forget about it, or I mean I don't know. I just don't don't think that anybody that investigates digital forensics part-time like that, I don't think it's very reliable. There's gotta be you you have to have a lot of work in it.

SPEAKER_03 25:41

Yeah, I've seen a lot of reports come across lately where it's like, well, we think we just because we said let's put them in jail.

SPEAKER_04 25:47

Yeah, that doesn't work that way.

SPEAKER_03 25:49

Really? Okay. And judges are letting it happen because they don't they don't understand it. DA's don't understand it. Defense attorneys are trying to learn it.

SPEAKER_04 25:56

You know, there's it's it's not the easiest thing to learn. Especially if you're not into the the tech, the digital forensics. For me, that course I had to go back and look at other things and figure other stuff out. You, it's just something that it's your interest. It's yeah, you know, very easy for you to look at things like that. For me, it was like chewing sawdust in in some of those chapters in that training.

SPEAKER_03 26:21

You chew sawdust all the time, anyways.

SPEAKER_04 26:23

No, I don't.

SPEAKER_03 26:24

You chew crayons. Yeah, crayons, yeah. You always got to look at it as if it's a piece of physical evidence. Right. So if you come up, if you're a cop, come up on a crash in the road, you can't move the cars around and make it look like you want it to.

SPEAKER_04 26:36

Correct.

SPEAKER_03 26:37

You can't move the digits around to make it look like you want it to. It's the same thing, you know what I mean? So and that's how I look at it.

SPEAKER_04 26:42

It's just see, but then you know, you said it yourself, they're using that software that alters the operating system.

SPEAKER_02 26:49

Right.

SPEAKER_04 26:51

What I mean, and they allow it. Knowing it happens, do they allow it because they don't understand the mechanics of it?

SPEAKER_03 26:58

Right.

SPEAKER_04 26:59

Or are they just saying, well, the cops did it, so it's okay.

SPEAKER_03 27:02

Right. It's like, you know, getting a body cremated before it's getting a chance to have an autopsy. We don't we have no idea how they died because they got cremated. Right. It's destroyed the evidence, right?

SPEAKER_04 27:12

Yeah, and you really can't put that puzzle piece back in there.

SPEAKER_03 27:15

No. Cremation does the does a trick.

SPEAKER_04 27:18

I just think digital forensics works very well with somebody with the knowledge and experience and understands it rather than, oh, I took this course and this the way it is.

SPEAKER_03 27:31

Okay. So the state of Alabama, they have a lab down in on the University of Alabama in Tuscaloosa, very awesome lab, by the way, digital lab. And they have about three people in there that are awesome. Yeah. You think those three are the ones that seeing all these cases out here? Oh, I bet they're pulling their hair out. They no, they've got to the point where they're having to train cops to do it, and then a cop sees one a year. Yeah. They hop on and pull that data and they do it wrong. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_04 27:58

Yeah, it it's this is something you do daily. They don't do it daily. When I was policing, I could have taken the course here in in small town Alabama. I wouldn't use that daily. I would have forgot things.

SPEAKER_03 28:13

Yeah, because you're out as a small town cop, you're doing everything all day. You're doing domestics, you're doing everything welfare, you're doing direct traffic for the school buses. You're doing all kinds of stuff. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 28:26

Yeah, this isn't something that you dedicate your you know 12 hours a day doing. Right.

SPEAKER_01 28:31

Right.

SPEAKER_04 28:31

So I don't know. Re being reliable evidence at that point, I I would that just throws a red flag. I know if if they came after me for something, they said, Oh, we got your phone, you better give it to Mackey and have him look at it. They wouldn't let me because I I don't trust you people.

SPEAKER_03 28:48

Right. It's getting to the point where some people are getting off and convinced they're probably guilty, but they got off because they mishandled the digital evidence. Right. And they're gonna have to tighten up how they do that, or to in my opinion, they started looking at digital as the end-all be-all instead of other physical evidence as well. Right. Digital rarely convicts somebody on its own. You got to have other physical evidence. Yeah, there's gotta be more physical evidence, whatever. And and it's and child porn's the big one. And they're a lot of child peop people that are looking at child porn and exchanging child porn are getting off because the police are handling the digital evidence.

SPEAKER_04 29:28

Yeah, they get off not because they're not guilty, they get off on a technicality.

SPEAKER_03 29:32

I think all of them should be, you know, cut in half with a broadswork, but anyway. And I'm good with that. So I think it's gross and it's a mental disorder. It's never cure for it. You get only cure is to lock them in a box and leave them.

SPEAKER_04 29:45

No, you can kill them too. Oh, you can kill them too. You do things to kids, you you shouldn't be breathing. Gotcha. I misspoke juice. It's okay.

SPEAKER_03 29:55

Anyway, all right, we're gonna get off here. Good talks today, Juice. Yep. Thanks for coming by.

SPEAKER_04 30:00

Anything for you, Mackie.

SPEAKER_03 30:02

What do you got going on today?

SPEAKER_04 30:03

Oh, I've gotta go see about getting a bag made for my motorcycle.

SPEAKER_03 30:08

Man, you love motorcycles, right? I do. Like I love horses.

SPEAKER_04 30:11

Tattoos. I like horses and well, I'm gonna wash my bike later. You can come by and look, watch it.

SPEAKER_03 30:17

I'm gonna wash a horse in a little bit.

SPEAKER_04 30:18

Yeah, I'm not staying for that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:20

Anyway. All right. Well, I'll holler at you later, Juice, and we're gonna get off here. I got some calls coming in here. Uh oh. See what happens. Work. Digital work. That's all we do all day now. So all right, talk to y'all later. Let's hear it in the comments.

SPEAKER_01 30:34

Bye.